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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Zugzwang on December 17, 2005, 02:06:40 AM
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It can't all be about a change and availability in drugs, surely? Back in Arnold's day - and before - the general consensus is that steroids were purer, more easily available (i.e., legal) and cheap.
If you look at that recent Photoshopped picture of Arnold and Ronnie together, their upper mass - from the front at least - is pretty comparable. Yes, Ronnie has better separation, lower BF etc, but there's not an enormous difference in the mass stakes. Their legs, however, are a world apart - Ronnie's look almost twice the size.
What actually changed after, say, the mid-1980s, that saw legs really start to grow in the majority of pros? Judges started actually looking at them?
I can't quite see that drugs have made any difference, so was it something like the availability of the leg press/hack squat machines etc that let to pros being really able to add weight and thus bulk to their quads, or did pros back in the day simply not pay as much attention to legs, and it was only uber-trainers like Platz who managed to take them to the next level, probably because he was doing as much/more work than the modern pro?
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Personally i don`t think anyone prioritized the legs,but in 1977 Platz had this leg development,that for the time looked outstanding.One year later when he won the World Champs,they had improved considerably,and by 1981 they reached a level that still to this day has not been matched.
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Oh, I agree. But Platz always seems to be the exception that proves the rule - he would be a freak now in that area, but back then he was a super-freak.
(http://www.tomplatz.com/graphics/beachpose.jpg)
But he is one of only a few.
Less impressive here, obviously.
(http://www.robertuniverse.com/davidgentle/images/tom%20platz%20with%20dave%20webster.jpg)
:D
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No-one really came remotely close to his development in the late 70s,then in 1981 in the Mr America Tim Belknap bacame probably the second guy to be known for his legs.
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The thing is that someone usually appeared showing a "new" bodypart,that then made evryone else try to emulate them,it was the same with Samirs christmas tree lower back in 82 and 83,the Gaspari`s ripped glutes in the 85 NOC.
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Comparing Coleman to Schwarzenegger distorts the picture, since Arnold always had slightly smallish legs even back in the day but knew how to hide it. Distracted from the thighs with excellent calves and good posing. Waller did same.
Better comparisons would involve Oliva, Callender, Robinson, Padilla, Fox, etc. Considering them, it looks like there's been an overall increase in development of all all muscles, even abs, not legs in particular.
If there was a difference in leg development, ie Schwarzenegger, or worse still Draper & Szkalak, it might just be that the bar was lower. Less competition, greater opportunity to win without the work required to achieve overall balance, rather than any difference in nutrition and drugs on specific muscles. Darwinism at work.
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Back in the day, legs development wasn't given much attention until in the mid 80's.
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Personally i don`t think anyone prioritized the legs,but in 1977 Platz had this leg development,that for the time looked outstanding.One year later when he won the World Champs,they had improved considerably,and by 1981 they reached a level that still to this day has not been matched.
Branch Warren ??
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maybe the drugs they use now makes legs grow more than upper body. also maybe in the 70's they didn't work quads and hams seperate.
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well my take on this is that they simply didnt care, and legs wasnt something they strived for, even to this day it hasnt really changed that much has it, how many times (outside of forums like this) do people comment or care about someones legs? and when it comes to moviestars, models and other celebrities it's never about their legs or calves development.
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Tim Belknap was SICKKK. He was a diabetic too. Maybe he introduced slin to the bb scene haha. Either way, after Tom Plats, the legs became an integral part of the show so all the pros started doing more leg work, no more squatting only.
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I don't think it was due to Platz or anyone else as much as raising the bar via increased competition that didn't exist in the 60s especially.
Lots of guys prefer working just the vanity muscles unless forced by others to cover all bases.
I see the biggest difference in legs and lats, compared with back in the day.
Increased drugs probably work more effectively on areas that are ignored relative to others.
Tim never impressed much in photos, except for thickness. Maybe in person or on film.
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I firmly believe the invention of the 45 degree leg press (which many gyms didn't even have until the early 80's) has increased the leg mass of bodybuilders more than any other factor.
Short guys like platz can squat till the cows come home but a tall guy like arnold was never setup to be an effective squatter simply due to his structure.
If we could transport the black FLEX 45 degree leg press at the current golds back to the pacific avenue golds all those guys would have had better legs. They would have been lining up to use it.
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I firmly believe the invention of the 45 degree leg press (which many gyms didn't even have until the early 80's) has increased the leg mass of bodybuilders more than any other factor.
Not just the 45 degree angled leg press, but also legs require much more sophisticated equipment to train than does arms or chest or even a complex muscle group like your back......and Nautilus started the ball rolling with innovative equipment design. Before Nautilus you only had very cheap leg extensions and even worse lying leg curl machines.
I remember when the first Nautilus leg extension machine came it-that machine to this day is state of the art and a huge improvement over the universal leg extension-what was popular in the late 60's....
Then came the lying leg curl that was V shaped-that was a huge improvement over other machines of that type......
Then Cybex came out with the first horizontal squat machine/leg press in 1985...and it all just snowballed after that........
The better the leg equipment-the better development you will have-
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Definitely.
I own a first generation nautilus leg extension (center knee pivot) and it is the best leg extension ever made.
Golds still has their one from the 70's on the floor.
I have one of the original Eagle leg presses you mentioned too which has stood the test of time well.
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Comparing Coleman to Schwarzenegger distorts the picture, since Arnold always had slightly smallish legs even back in the day but knew how to hide it. Distracted from the thighs with excellent calves and good posing. Waller did same.
Better comparisons would involve Oliva, Callender, Robinson, Padilla, Fox, etc. Considering them, it looks like there's been an overall increase in development of all all muscles, even abs, not legs in particular.
If there was a difference in leg development, ie Schwarzenegger, or worse still Draper & Szkalak, it might just be that the bar was lower. Less competition, greater opportunity to win without the work required to achieve overall balance, rather than any difference in nutrition and drugs on specific muscles. Darwinism at work.
....I always find this kinda funny..like the judges say to themselves..."My word!...what SPLENDID development!"...and then they look at the photos of the show afterwards and go "Damn his eyes!!..he FOOLED US AGAIN with his POSING!...Damn you ARNOLD!".....and to have it repeat for 7 more occasions.
What did the guys EVER mean about being able to 'hide' ANYTHING from the judges?...I think the physiques were judged by a much different standard than today, that's a given. But I think a lot of this 'hiding' nonsense was just muscle mag writers trying to overemphasize the skills needed to pose...giving them more to write about.
My personal opinion on the leg issue is this....better equipment, more (not better) drugs taken for longer periods, and better genetically gifted guys in the leg department on the whole.
Basically, in the efforts to classify the 3 classic 'morph' body types, they wanted every average dude out there to think, hey, I can do this!...when really, the dominators of today all have pretty much the same look to them....extreme overdevelopment of each bodypart to its limit, regardless of it's impact on balance and proportion.
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& everyone says the squat is the main reason for bigger thighs
::)
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& everyone says the squat is the main reason for bigger thighs
::)
Jim Quinn's legs were easily 32 inches and he never did a squat in his life.........but I will
say this-the squat is a fantastic exercise, and once you learn to do it properly, it is, in my
opinion, the funniest exercise and most satisfying to do........ ;D I loved them.
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Jim Quinn's legs were easily 32 inches and he never did a squat in his life.........but I will
say this-the squat is a fantastic exercise, and once you learn to do it properly, it is, in my
opinion, the funniest exercise and most satisfying to do........ ;D I loved them.
Honestly....I just think alot of the bodybuilders from the golden era just didn't care about big thighs as much compared to big biceps, V-tapers, & big chests. Even when Platz was on the scene I always felt he was scored against his best bodypart.
Every once in awhile I'll run into a guy that used to lift in the 40's, 50', or 60's & they all say the same thing. "V-Tapers & wide shoulders". Some of these guys laugh at todays bodybuilders with the large thighs.
Another person that needs to be mentioned in this thread is Vince Gironda. He basically was "the guru" in the 60's & 70's and he knocked guys down all the time for thighs being to big.
Arnold, Lou, & a few others were just to tall to seriously pack on a lot of thigh size to begin with.
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Another person that needs to be mentioned in this thread is Vince Gironda. He basically was "the guru" in the 60's & 70's and he knocked guys down all the time for thighs being to big.
Knny-did you ever make it up to Vince's Gym? I kick myself in the ass for never visiting that place!
Arnold, Lou, & a few others were just to tall to seriously pack on a lot of thigh size to begin with.
Gunter and some of the newer guys are as tall as Arnie and Lou and these newer guys have good wheels....so I think Lou and Arnie could have packed it on of they had better equipment...and as you have stated....they made it job#1 to go with the V Taper instead of legs........
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Better leg machines shouldn't make much difference actually, since the squat is better than all other leg exercises combined, then or now.
With leg press machines the only advantage i can see is if guys are more willing to use em because they're less exhausting-a person's height won't make any difference on squats! Even if the newer press machines are an improvement, why would that help when they had squats and vertical leg press back in the day-where's the improvement from the 45 degree angle machines?
Probably not the equipment, more likely they were just vain, wanted muscles to show off walking down the street rather than caring about contests. Newer machines would NOT have packed on more size than squats. It's not height that held back Schwarzenegger or Ferrigno on leg development, it's a combo of genetics and lack of desire-especially then these guys were fairly vain, probably didn't attach more importance to developing legs. Gunter's development is less due to better equipment i'd say than to genetics and desire to work them.
But I think a lot of this 'hiding' nonsense was just muscle mag writers trying to overemphasize the skills needed to pose.
Basically you're devaluing the importance of good posing. Of course good posing's effective at accentuating certain attributes while de-emphasizing others. Arnold didn't have a lot of thigh size, knew it and compensated by (1) turning the thighs to the side in various shots, (2) always ensuring the size he did have was well cut-up, and (3) having great calves. Those guys were more interested in vanity muscles, thighs don't qualify and are a tough workout.
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Knny-did you ever make it up to Vince's Gym? I kick myself in the ass for never visiting that place!
Gunter and some of the newer guys are as tall as Arnie and Lou and these newer guys have good wheels....so I think Lou and Arnie could have packed it on of they had better equipment...and as you have stated....made it job#1 to go with the V Taper........
No...never went to Vinces.
Actually talked to a guy the other day that used to workout there.
Vince today must be rolling in his grave.
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Basically you're devaluing the importance of good posing. Of course good posing's effective at accentuating certain attributes while de-emphasizing others. Duh! Arnold didn't have a lot of thigh size, which he compensated for by (1) turning the thighs to the side in various shots, (2) always ensuring the size he did have was well cut-up, and (3) having great calves.
...but today you can't hide the fact you have ANY weak bodyparts. Don't get me wrong, I think posing is an art that is integral to bodybuilding. I'm saying that the idea of posing to 'hide' your weakparts is not a technique that would help someone today 'get ahead'. If you have weak ANYTHING, it's discovered during prejudging, wouldn't you agree?
Ronnie is a moot point. He's a freak in every sense. The system can't seem to fault his 'lacking' calves (which are still huge compared to many pros) is light of his massive "everything else".
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the idea of posing to 'hide' your weakparts is not a technique that would help someone today 'get ahead'.
It must have some value otherwise posing wouldn't be necessary. It's a subtle thing, knowing how to angle the body slightly differently to gain advantage. How they scrutinize today's physiques wouldn't necessarily apply 30 years ago.
If the new leg press machines make a difference, it must be psychological more than physical, they're easier to do than squats.
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....the reason I would say (educated guess?) is that those without the frame for proper squatting technique could have used their mental toughness to grind out more reps at a higher intensity using a 45 degree machine versus the 90 degree one, or squatting with spotters could.
That being said, many pros have said that the 45 deg leg press is the reason why so many guys nowadays have less than stellar leg development, so who knows...can't find many pros who dont' believe the squat is king.
..and finally, prejudging rounds have mandatory poses which make it very clear who has what and who's lacking parts. Posing rounds aren't used much after prejudging to sort out the final winner in a show...unless of course you're Jay and Ronnie back in 2001.
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Better leg machines shouldn't make much difference actually, since the squat is better than all other leg exercises combined, then or now.
With leg press machines the only advantage i can see is if guys are more willing to use em because they're less exhausting-a person's height won't make any difference on squats! Even if the newer press machines are an improvement, why would that help when they had squats and vertical leg press back in the day-where's the improvement from the 45 degree angle machines?
The squat is a better leg exercise b/c of the range of motion in the three joints it involves.....having said that many people are better off with a leg press b/c of biomechanical disadvantage-like being very tall........so your argument that the squat is always better is not correct...
Second......if you have back problems, you have to do leg presses.....and trhat is why you would do leg presses instaed of squats
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Squats are usually better, for most people, most of the time. Box squats are an excellent variation which can help those with perceived biomechanical disadvantages. For the others, there were vertical leg press machines back in the day that were solid, yet they were still considered secondary. Platz didn't even do presses. The theory that being taller isn't condusive to squatting is just speculation that many adopt as truth.
Amongst the majority in their 20s and 30s, those with back probs are in the vast minority.
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In Vince's gym....the squat was not allowed
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"My word!...what SPLENDID development!"...and then they look at the photos of the show afterwards and go "Damn his eyes!!..he FOOLED US AGAIN with his POSING!...Damn you ARNOLD!".....and to have it repeat for 7 more occasions.
funny :)
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It can't all be about a change and availability in drugs, surely? Back in Arnold's day - and before - the general consensus is that steroids were purer, more easily available (i.e., legal) and cheap.
If you look at that recent Photoshopped picture of Arnold and Ronnie together, their upper mass - from the front at least - is pretty comparable. Yes, Ronnie has better separation, lower BF etc, but there's not an enormous difference in the mass stakes. Their legs, however, are a world apart - Ronnie's look almost twice the size.
What actually changed after, say, the mid-1980s, that saw legs really start to grow in the majority of pros? Judges started actually looking at them?
I can't quite see that drugs have made any difference, so was it something like the availability of the leg press/hack squat machines etc that let to pros being really able to add weight and thus bulk to their quads, or did pros back in the day simply not pay as much attention to legs, and it was only uber-trainers like Platz who managed to take them to the next level, probably because he was doing as much/more work than the modern pro?
There was? ???
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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The angled leg press is/was the choice of many many pros for leg training...
Vince Taylor - Never squatted
Dorian Yates - Never squatted after 1987
Paul Dillet - very rarely if ever squatted
Flex Wheeler - no squats
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Yeah, some guys benefit significantly from squats. Other don't. The 45-degree leg press is a fabulous machine if used properly.
BTW, Yates did very heavy smith squats in the '90s. So he did kinda use the squat. Besides, his quads were his second weakest bodypart (biceps as the obvious first).
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I think the old timers had a better sense of proportion. Huge legs look goofy to most people. Most pros can't even walk straight because their legs are so big.
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I think the concept that the squat is better than 'all other leg exercises combined' is an interesting one, and potentially false; putting the ideas that pros did not concentrate as much on quads before the mid-1980s, if the squat was so good as a leg exercise - on a standalone basis - I'm pretty sure that genetically gifted guys would have seen their legs explode whether they were paying them enormous attention or not. Pretty much every pro squatted in the 1970s, right? While we may be able to excuse Arnold and Lou for being tall, why didn't Franco Columbo have monster legs? Genetics, sure, but you'd have thought capacity would have been there for him to really max out the wheels, even by default.
Yates squatted a lot and heavily in his youth, but completely abandoned the exercise in the 1990s - someone above mentioned he Smith-squatted then, but I've never heard nor seen that. In Blood and Guts and A Warrior's Journey it's leg extensions, hack squats and leg press and that's it. It seems to me that a superb foundation can be built on the squat, but it isn't essential for maintenance or indeed additional latter-career growth for most top pros. Of course, the flipside of this is that Ronnie, Jay and Branch all squat and they've got arguably the three best sets of wheels in the pro ranks today. But it very much does appear to be, as per usual, an exercise that works best if it suits you, and doesn't work best for everyone. It may well be the best single exercise, but clearly not for 100 per cent of the population.
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I think the concept that the squat is better than 'all other leg exercises combined' is an interesting one, and potentially false; putting the ideas that pros did not concentrate as much on quads before the mid-1980s, if the squat was so good as a leg exercise - on a standalone basis - I'm pretty sure that genetically gifted guys would have seen their legs explode whether they were paying them enormous attention or not. Pretty much every pro squatted in the 1970s, right? While we may be able to excuse Arnold and Lou for being tall, why didn't Franco Columbo have monster legs? Genetics, sure, but you'd have thought capacity would have been there for him to really max out the wheels, even by default.
Yates squatted a lot and heavily in his youth, but completely abandoned the exercise in the 1990s - someone above mentioned he Smith-squatted then, but I've never heard nor seen that. In Blood and Guts and A Warrior's Journey it's leg extensions, hack squats and leg press and that's it. It seems to me that a superb foundation can be built on the squat, but it isn't essential for maintenance or indeed additional latter-career growth for most top pros. Of course, the flipside of this is that Ronnie, Jay and Branch all squat and they've got arguably the three best sets of wheels in the pro ranks today. But it very much does appear to be, as per usual, an exercise that works best if it suits you, and doesn't work best for everyone. It may well be the best single exercise, but clearly not for 100 per cent of the population.
The squat is indeed the king of all exercises, but it's not the best way to train the quads!
Before all those squats lover's fall over me, please let me elaborate. A proper squat, that is a powerlift, involves more hips, lower back and hams than it does the quads. That is the reason that most powerlifers use many exercises like good mornings to train their lower back and hams (also for deadlifting) High bar squatting, or bodybuilder squat, is awkward if you are tall, no discussion about that!
Same logic applies to bench presses, nice if you are short with short arms. But for longer limbed person's, dumbell presses or machine presses are Superior.
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The squat is indeed the king of all exercises, but it's not the best way to train the quads!
Before all those squats lover's fall over me, please let me elaborate. A proper squat, that is a powerlift, involves more hips, lower back and hams than it does the quads. That is the reason that most powerlifers use many exercises like good mornings to train their lower back and hams (also for deadlifting) High bar squatting, or bodybuilder squat, is awkward if you are tall, no discussion about that!
Same logic applies to bench presses, nice if you are short with short arms. But for longer limbed person's, dumbell presses or machine presses are Superior.
hahahahahahahaha.
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Jim Quinn did squat in an article Flex magazine December 1993 that he and Billy Smith both use to squat over 600lbs but stopped doing them and relied on hacks , leg presses and lex extensions.
And Yates did do Smith machine squats even after winning the Mr Olympia.
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pussies.
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I think the concept that the squat is better than 'all other leg exercises combined' is an interesting one, and potentially false; putting the ideas that pros did not concentrate as much on quads before the mid-1980s, if the squat was so good as a leg exercise - on a standalone basis - I'm pretty sure that genetically gifted guys would have seen their legs explode whether they were paying them enormous attention or not. Pretty much every pro squatted in the 1970s, right? While we may be able to excuse Arnold and Lou for being tall, why didn't Franco Columbo have monster legs?
So many assumptions, apparently made just to argue. Genetically gifted guys *did* see their legs explode before the 80s, or didn't you notice Platz and others? Duh! He didn't even do leg presses! Franco had legs that were as good as his potential through drugs, nutrition and squats, would carry him-what's complicated about figuring that out? There's no proof whatsoever that he left any potential on the table, as you're guessing.
The main difference now is that with competition much higher, guys can't afford to ignore legs and the hard workouts they require. In the old daze focusing on vanity muscles would've been good enough in many cases-Bill Grant and others come to mind. More efficient drug use, better nutrition and better training techniques also enter into it, and probably had more of a collective impact on areas bodybuilders ignored in the past, such as legs. Arms and chest were collectively already closer to potential ceilings of development in the old daze.
I'm still not clear on why better leg press machines now available help-less exhausting than squats, better for pussies who can't take it? Squats will always be the gold standard-the silly theory about a peron's height has no basis in fact, but is repeated and handed down often enough that some believe it anyway. It's a convenient excuse!
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Jim Quinn did squat in an article Flex magazine December 1993 that he and Billy Smith both use to squat over 600lbs but stopped doing them and relied on hacks , leg presses and lex extensions.
And Yates did do Smith machine squats even after winning the Mr Olympia.
When I trained around Quinn for several yeas he never did a single rep on squats-ever.
Never did hack squats either.
Bill Smith used to work the counter at Gold's Venice in the 80's, and that was when Quinn came out to Venice...so before Quinn made it down to San Diego he may have squatted-but not when he was around me in San Diego.
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i remember reading that Quinn and Smith used to do heavy ass leg presses a lot, 2,000lbs. plus.
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hahahahahahahaha.
Quite fascinating reaction, i will respond equally witted: hahahahahha
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i'm laughing because you're using every little bitch's excuse for not squatting and benching, you hear this bullshit every day.
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So many assumptions, apparently made just to argue. Genetically gifted guys *did* see their legs explode before the 80s, or didn't you notice Platz and others? Duh! He didn't even do leg presses! Franco had legs that were as good as his potential through drugs, nutrition and squats, would carry him-what's complicated about figuring that out? There's no proof whatsoever that he left any potential on the table, as you're guessing.
The main difference now is that with competition much higher, guys can't afford to ignore legs and the hard workouts they require. In the old daze focusing on vanity muscles would've been good enough in many cases-Bill Grant and others come to mind. More efficient drug use, better nutrition and better training techniques also enter into it, and probably had more of a collective impact on areas bodybuilders ignored in the past, such as legs. Arms and chest were collectively already closer to potential ceilings of development in the old daze.
I'm still not clear on why better leg press machines now available help-less exhausting than squats, better for pussies who can't take it? Squats will always be the gold standard-the silly theory about a peron's height has no basis in fact, but is repeated and handed down often enough that some believe it anyway. It's a convenient excuse!
With all due respect, why would somebody be a pussie if he does not squat! If he is not suited for it then why should he! It is bodybuilding, so if a leg press works better for the quads than squats then should use the former. Some people are made to squat, short guys, and some are made to deadlift (tall guys)
Squat is still the king of exercices, but not for the quads and not for everbody.
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i'm laughing because you're using every little bitch's excuse for not squatting and benching, you hear this bullshit every day.
Your reaction is kinda of presumptive as my training is based on heavy deads, high pulls, clean and press, goodmorning heavy dumbell presses and yes also on smith squats. Why, because they work better for me.
BTW little bitch's excuse. what is that for a reaction? This will get you really far in real life, lol
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hahahaha, ok, "willriker", hahaha.
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hahahaha, ok, "willriker", hahaha.
So we are friends now ;)
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I'm still not clear on why better leg press machines now available help-less exhausting than squats, better for pussies who can't take it? Squats will always be the gold standard-the silly theory about a peron's height has no basis in fact, but is repeated and handed down often enough that some believe it anyway. It's a convenient excuse!
more height = longer bones = higher torque = more leverage = more difficult to squat in comparison to a shorter person - I suggest you revist your high school physics text if this isn't clear enough for you - the squat is a great excercise to be sure but just like most other exercises, it is more difficult for taller people
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Lighten up dude, we're having fun. Let off some steam with a few sets of squats and get back to me.
Squats are for everyone tho, if you're seriously ready to sweat. Most of the excuses about height and leverage don't hold water. Leg presses are for yuppies.
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Lighten up dude, we're having fun. Let off some steam with a few sets of squats and get back to me.
Seems to be your calling card, Pumpster old chap. Somebody posts the reasons why X isn't Y, and you either ignore it or just repeat what you said before. Incidentally, I did mention Platz above - right from the very beginning - and as stated, he's the exception that proves the rule.
I concur that evidently it appears prioritisation is the main reason why legs exploded after this era.
Regarding squats vs leg press - the reason why the leg press is relatively easier is because (a) your back is supported and (b) it's more isolating for the quad (with some hams) than the squat, which as we know is probably THE ultimate all-body exercise (or the only one that comes close). Naturally the leg press will seem less taxing *on your body* as only really your legs are doing any work (and mostly your quads, depending on foot position - for most people it's mostly quads.) That doesn't mean as a *quad* exercise it isn't as effecient, or possibly even more so, depending on the weights being used (with full reps, proper form etc.)
Regarding squates and structure, Dorian Yates himself (and we know, we know, he's no Paul Dillet), stated that, "... I perservered with the exercise until October of 1989, when I finally accepted my structure - narrow hips, longish legs - was not ideal for heavy barbell squats. Instead, I began to rely on leg presses and Smith Machine squats as mass builders for thighs. However, I still recommend that everyone, beginners in particular, earn their thigh-building spurs with barbell squats. You should cease doing them only if you feel, as I did, that they're causing more harm than good."
He adds: "For stimulating sheer quad mass, the leg press is my exercise of choice. Beware, however, because it is one of the most abused and misused exercises in the bodybuilding repertoire. The sport abounds with erroneous claims from guys citing leg-preses in excess of 1,500 pounds. These guys may indeed have 1,500 pounds loaded on the machine, but they certainly aren't using a full range of motion. What most of these guys do is set the supporting backboard at such an extreme upright angle that their knees can only move four or five inches during their so-called 'reps'. They're doing only a partial movement and, thus, achieving only a partial stimulation of the thigh muscles."
Dorian, incidentally, claims he maxed out at 1,265 pounds on the leg press.
As usual, there are no hard and fasts - if it works for you, it works. And that's it.
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Seems to be your calling card, Pumpster old chap. Somebody posts the reasons why X isn't Y, and you either ignore it or just repeat what you said before. Incidentally, I did mention Platz above - right from the very beginning - and as stated, he's the exception that proves the rule.
I concur that evidently it appears prioritisation is the main reason why legs exploded after this era.
Regarding squats vs leg press - the reason why the leg press is relatively easier is because (a) your back is supported and (b) it's more isolating for the quad (with some hams) than the squat, which as we know is probably THE ultimate all-body exercise (or the only one that comes close). Naturally the leg press will seem less taxing *on your body* as only really your legs are doing any work (and mostly your quads, depending on foot position - for most people it's mostly quads.) That doesn't mean as a *quad* exercise it isn't as effecient, or possibly even more so, depending on the weights being used (with full reps, proper form etc.)
Regarding squates and structure, Dorian Yates himself (and we know, we know, he's no Paul Dillet), stated that, "... I perservered with the exercise until October of 1989, when I finally accepted my structure - narrow hips, longish legs - was not ideal for heavy barbell squats. Instead, I began to rely on leg presses and Smith Machine squats as mass builders for thighs. However, I still recommend that everyone, beginners in particular, earn their thigh-building spurs with barbell squats. You should cease doing them only if you feel, as I did, that they're causing more harm than good."
He adds: "For stimulating sheer quad mass, the leg press is my exercise of choice. Beware, however, because it is one of the most abused and misused exercises in the bodybuilding repertoire. The sport abounds with erroneous claims from guys citing leg-preses in excess of 1,500 pounds. These guys may indeed have 1,500 pounds loaded on the machine, but they certainly aren't using a full range of motion. What most of these guys do is set the supporting backboard at such an extreme upright angle that their knees can only move four or five inches during their so-called 'reps'. They're doing only a partial movement and, thus, achieving only a partial stimulation of the thigh muscles."
Dorian, incidentally, claims he maxed out at 1,265 pounds on the leg press.
As usual, there are no hard and fasts - if it works for you, it works. And that's it.
Actually, the ultimate all-body exercise is the dead-lift. Just so you'll know...
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Actually, the ultimate all-body exercise is the dead-lift. Just so you'll know...
First, I think that's a matter of opinion - must people seem to think it's the squat. Secondly, was there really a need to quote my entire post for that!?
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Squat, cleans, clean n' jerk are the best all-rounds. Deadlifts fairly far down the list.
Anyone still using "old chap" is immediately discredited. So last-century. What a self-righteous bore.
Make sure to substantiate how you know that Dillet and others barely used basic exercises like squats, the claim is laughable. Yates still does Smith Machine squats.
Immediately backpeddling, it's then mentioned that oh, squats are mainly good for just the build-up stage, aren't needed for maintenance..? Maintenance is the E-Z part, I'll be maintaining on a Gazelle when i'm 83.
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Anyone still using "old chap" is immediately discredited. So last-century. What a self-righteous bore.
Another winning comeback! You're out-of-control, you animal. ;D
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Righto; we'll discuss further over a lemon cordial following the cricket match, old chap.. 8)
I know the reasons why leg press is less stressful on the bod, what's unclear is whether the newer 45 angle leg press is any better than the vertical leg press available back in the day. The 45 degree leg press is about the only difference in equipment from back in the day. The *best* leg press frp, the 70s was probably the Universal Machine leverage leg press-probably as good or better than anything made now.
Leg extensions aren't great and are tough on the knees; for the same purpose a good hack machine is better.
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First, I think that's a matter of opinion - must people seem to think it's the squat. Secondly, was there really a need to quote my entire post for that!?
Wrong. The dead-lift has been show to activate more muscle groups, than the squat. Both Mike Mentzer and Joe Gold agreed.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Wrong. The dead-lift has been show to activate more muscle groups, than the squat. Both Mike Mentzer and Joe Gold agreed.
I think the squat works 75 per cent of the body's muscles to a varying degree; where is this alternative proof that the dead lift is numero uno?
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squats involve more muscle groups because of where the weight is being held, more muscles are called into play to both move and support the weight.
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squats involve more muscle groups because of where the weight is being held, more muscles are called into play to both move and support the weight.
Nope.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Nope.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
you've obviously never been in a gym a day in your life.
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He only saw gyms from pics.
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you've obviously never been in a gym a day in your life.
Yet, I know very well how to do a workout, with your sister. ;D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Yet, I know very well how to do a workout, with your sister. ;D
SUCKMYMUSCLE
yeah she told me all about it especially the part where you had to watch gay porn to get it up.
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yeah she told me all about it especially the part where you had to watch gay porn to get it up.
Yeah, and the gay porn came from your stash ;D. By the way, sorry that I stepped on your Justin album :-*. Girl, don't leave your stuff around like that!
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Lots of good reasons in this thread. Biggest for me was the CRANKED-UP drug stacks.. Longer stacks and higher dosages w/ a better understanding of how to maximize there effects...
XS
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pussies.
OK OK...FOR THE FIRST TIME...YOU SAID SOMETHING I AGREE WITH....LOL, OH NO, SAY IT AINT SO.
THIS GUY IS GREAT
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this is why ::) ::)
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monster teardrops.