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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Pet Board => Topic started by: Camel Jockey on July 09, 2007, 07:47:09 PM
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i have noticed that everytime the subject of pitbulls comes up in a thread someone has to come out with a ignorant remark.
it is bad enough how pitbulls are treated today in our society. i would think a place like this, devoted to pets, would not tolerate
such things.
Don't dodge the issue here. A forum is a place of discussion.
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf
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Don't dodge the issue here. A forum is a place of discussion.
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf
it has nothing to do with dodging the issue. if you dont like pit bulls for whatever reason than that is fine. making comments like "pit bulls attack people", shouldnt be a part of this discussion board. its those types of comments along with the nonsense that is in that link, which lead to things like breed specific legislation and thousands of innocent pit bulls every year being killed.
true pit bulls are not aggressive towards people at all. they are extremely people friendly, especially with children. their temperament ranks among the highest of any breed.
many of these dog bite stats attributed to pit bull "type" dogs are not pit bulls at all. one problem is that pit bull is a genieric term used for the apbt, amstaff and bull terrier. there are also over 20 seperate breeds who have pit bull type characteristics and are commonly incorrectly identified as a pit bull as well as all the pit mixes.
Karen Delise, Author of Fatal Dog Attacks
"In reviewing and studying over 448 cases of fatal dog attacks in the United States, it is apparent that the three most critical factors that contribute to a fatal dog attack are: function of the dog, owner responsibility, and reproductive status of the dog. There is NO DOCUMENTED CASE where a single, neutered, household Pit Bull was the cause of a human fatality.”
http://www.fataldogattacks.com/
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Camel Jockey, yes this is a forum, a place for discussion, but that means discussion, not inflammatory comments.
Any dog "can attack people", truth be told you have a better chance of having a toy breed just come up and bite you than a pitbull. A pitbull will do more damage than a toy dog of course, but that doesn't change which breed of dog is more apt to just bite someone.
If all people can have a mature, intelligent, & rationale discussion then this thread can stay, if not I will delete it.
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Pitbulls eat people too just like Mastino's... >:(
..... :D
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You are not helping EM. >:(
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we don't need multiple threads about one topic
You're just beating a dead horse
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You are not helping EM. >:(
.... :-*
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we don't need multiple threads about one topic
You're just beating a dead horse
When I split these posts out of the Dane thread I started to look for the other threads and merge them all, but I thought I'd let this thread play out, then merge any future ones.
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no I agree...let it play out...
It seems to be only one person on this debate....maybe Hedge can come in with his 2 cents ::)
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To me these threads (and the thought processes that drive the onesided "Pitbulls are evil" mindset) are often flat out stupid.... Its just an example of mankinds need to hate and persecute without actually thinking something through.
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If all people can have a mature, intelligent, & rationale discussion then this thread can stay, if not I will delete it.
i admit there have been a few times on this board when i have gone a little far and taken it to personal attacks, name calling, ect. in response to some anti pitbull comments. i will not do this anymore but it is also my opinion that the mods here should not be as lienent as far as hateful comments made towards pitbulls. not to say that everyone should praise pits as the greatest breed ever because they arent for everyone. i just think some comments made, for example, calling them worthless dogs who should be banned, comparing them to loaded guns, saying they attack people, ect. shouldnt have a place on a board like this. i think those of those who love pitbulls have a right to be sensitive when it comes to these type of comments. pits are by far the most persecuted and hated on breed of dog in our society.
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I just made a point of them being involved in more attacks..
You started the topic and made a big deal of the whole thing..
I have nothing against you guys, and other responsible pet owners. Infact, I think it's wonderful and I envy you. But that doesn't mean you have to inflate this whole incident.
I don't think they should be banned, regulated or anything like that. And if you looked in the Great Dane topic, you'll see that my whole was that maybe these attacks are taking place because of poorly qualified and inexperienced owners(the hip-hop crowd). Chaos took it for than its original meaning and you guys ran with it.
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i admit there have been a few times on this board when i have gone a little far and taken it to personal attacks, name calling, ect. in response to some anti pitbull comments. i will not do this anymore but it is also my opinion that the mods here should not be as lienent as far as hateful comments made towards pitbulls. not to say that everyone should praise pits as the greatest breed ever because they arent for everyone. i just think some comments made, for example, calling them worthless dogs who should be banned, comparing them to loaded guns, saying they attack people, ect. shouldnt have a place on a board like this. i think those of those who love pitbulls have a right to be sensitive when it comes to these type of comments. pits are by far the most persecuted and hated on breed of dog in our society.
I agree with the majority of what you are saying, which is why I highlighted the mature discussion part. If people want to discuss this topic with facts, stats, concrete reasoning behind their opinions then fine. People do have a right to wish a breed was not around, but it should be stated as an opinion and done with reasoning and not emotion.
I hope I explained that correctly. :-\
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I just made a point of them being involved in more attacks..
You started the topic and made a big deal of the whole thing..
I have nothing against you guys, and other responsible pet owners. Infact, I think it's wonderful and I envy you. But that doesn't mean you have to inflate this whole incident.
I don't think they should be banned, regulated or anything like that. And if you looked in the Great Dane topic, you'll see that my whole was that maybe these attacks are taking place because of poorly qualified and inexperienced owners(the hip-hop crowd). Chaos took it for than its original meaning and you guys ran with it.
That was a reasonable post CJ, but your first post on this in the Dane thread was a bit inflammatory:
Pits attack people..
For real, most people that own pits are wannabe gangsters and probably have no right owning anything. Nothing against responsible owners or anything like that.
That opening statement sets up the responses you are going to get.
Since you have clarified your post, everyone please move forward in this discussion or close this topic.
thanks. :)
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One of the big problem with pits is the "Status symbol" crap that seems to follow them with some crowds. I'm a veterinarian, my wife is a veterinarian--a boarded specialist. We own pits. The thing is they are house dogs you don't see outside unless we are with them. My 76 year old grandmother owned a pit for several years. Again, you never saw the dog unless she was outside with Clowy. I know doctors, lawyers, politicians, police officers, fire fighters, television personalities---all respectable members of society who own one of the "pit bull" breeds be it English Staffies, American Staffies, APBT, Bull Terriers or American Bulldogs (yes I know there are others too that fall into that generalization).
I also used to run a reasonable sized pitbull rescue a few years ago and I've worked as a cruelty investigator for Animal Control. I will not lie and say I've never encountered a human aggressive pitbull, but those dogs are few and far between. I don't know how many of you have every worked at a human society where all of the pits had to be euthanized for the simple reason they were pitbulls, but it flat out sucks. Of all of the dogs, the pits are the ones that will always lick you in the face and wag their tail right before they fall over dead as you are injecting the Beuthanasia solution---always.
Some of the absolute most horrible cases of animal cruelty I've ever encountered have been with pitbulls. From dogs where the owners chopped the front legs off with a hatchet and then let two other dogs attack it as the dog bled to death, to administration of drugs ranging from anabolic steroids to benzodiazapenes to off the wall bullshit like feeding gunpowder--which literally eats out the stomach lining of the dog, often times killing it.
Its a sad state in the US that the citizens are so stupid they buy into media bullshit---and thats what I think most of the pitbull attacks we hear about are. People are bitten every day by dogs in the US. Some counties in the US have mandatory "bite report" laws in that the healthcare workers who deal with patients who present with dog bites have to report that bite to the county health authorities and animal control. I also know for a fact that there is one city in Ohio where the only dog bites that are not fatal that are reported in the paper are those by pitbulls. All other breeds are ignored (again if they are not fatal attacks) because they are "not newsworthy" unless its a pitbull. Pits may get front page coverage because they "sell papers". I blame Dateline, newspapers, and other media sensationalism for much of the closeminded ideas that people have about these breeds. I've got to the point when someone tells me they "hate pitbulls" I ask them why. Have they ever been bitten by one? Have they ever even seen one? Could they even identify a pitbull if they had too----and as a side note that is something that many, many animal control regulations do very, very poorly as a result of the idiocy associated with the city councils responsible for passing stupid breed restricting legislature. The online "Is it a pitbull" test is a very, very good one if you ask me.
The bottom line is its the responsibility of the pet owner. Only an idiot leaves a small child with a large dog and doesn't watch the dog---it doesn't matter what breed the dog is. You never know when the kid is going to do something like poke the dog in the eye, which may provoke a defensive bite that really isn't the dogs fault at all. If you want to end dog breed related problems, you need to make the owners take responsibility for the dogs, not let them use the dog as a disposable means of income/status like so many do. As a pitbull owner, I can say I'd do jail time if my dogs injured someone unprovoked---I know they won't, I've used my olderfemale as atherapy dog in the past and the puppy is in training now, but I can say it because I'm a responsible owner who isn't going to let their dogs get into a situation where something bad can happen.
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Hey, try living in Florida & dealing with the pitbull issue. My 3 AB's are always seen & classified as pits......the "evil dogs". It really drives me crazy sometimes.
Just a thought......would you ever see a poodle attack on the evening news? No. >:( Anyway, just a few months ago, I walked into a house (for a loan closing) & got attacked by a Jack Russell who took a chunk of my finger. It didn't make the news & yeah, I am done venting for now.
Kim
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MOD EDIT WARNING #1
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First warning "dawg"
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Hey, try living in Florida & dealing with the pitbull issue. My 3 AB's are always seen & classified as pits......the "evil dogs". It really drives me crazy sometimes.
Just a thought......would you ever see a poodle attack on the evening news? No. >:( Anyway, just a few months ago, I walked into a house (for a loan closing) & got attacked by a Jack Russell who took a chunk of my finger. It didn't make the news & yeah, I am done venting for now.
Kim
i was about to make a new thread on the topic of pitbulls and media bias. since you are talking about it here i will add on.
attacks by non-pit bull dogs are rarely taken up by national or international media sources, while this is regularly the case with any case involving a pit.
here is an example of 4 seperate dog bites that took place in june of 2006 and notice how each story was reported.
1. A three-year-old Virginia boy was admitted to the hospital with "extensive injuries". The child was attacked by a Golden Retriever mixed breed dog. The wounds to the child required 300 stitches; and the child will require additional surgeries to "functionally repair muscles, nerves and work on scars". This incident was reported in only two local Virginia newspapers.
2. A 3-year-old girl is admitted to Children's Hospital in Denver with serious lacerations to her face and head. The hospital declined to release the child's name or information on her condition. She had been attacked at her home by a Labrador Retriever. This attack was reported four times and only in Colorado media sources.
3. An Indiana woman is attacked and knocked to the ground by a German Shepherd dog. The dog she was walking, a small Sheltie mix was also attacked. Neighbors responded and managed to restrain the German Shepherd, but not before the woman was bitten twice in the face. Her small dog was so gravely injured that it was euthanized. This incident was reported in only one local Indiana newspaper.
4. An 11-year-old girl was bitten in the leg and taken to the hospital, when she was attacked by a pitbull in California. This incident was reported in over ninety-one national and international newspapers. Forbes, FOX News, along with the Washington Post, LA Times, Chicago Tribune and dozens of other major news organizations headlined this "Pit Bull Attack".
*All information was researched and is fully documented by Karen Delise LVT, Independent Scholar and AuthorThe National Canine Research Council
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Ya, that edit above has some issues, could be legal issues if he was 4 real...
Pits are endline hundreds of yrs of selective breeding - To fight other Dogs, not their handlers or other ppl!
Ive owned a American pit and a AMstaff. The Amstaff would let my baby girl ride him. He was the most gentle
good hearted, animal Ive owned of many many dogs. He wouldn't bite if poked in the eye even. Also a very discriminating watch dog. 21" head. Jaws like a vise.
Don't tell anyone, but most Pitts are the most playfull dog you'll ever find. Play get the stick, and they'll let thieves unload the house.
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Don't tell anyone, but most Pitts are the most playfull dog you'll ever find. Play get the stick, and they'll let thieves unload the house.
Hey, I didn't even hook up the Brinks whatever security system when I moved in. I leave the front blinds up about 9 inches (my standards of course ;) & the Bullies will sit right there until I come home. Geez, I do hate to say it but if someone were to break into my house with some treats.....I'm so f-in robbed.
Kim
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Git the stick Boy - Git the Stick!... Totaly ignore the GSXR going Bye Bye.. ::)
THAT is how to deal with a pit bull.
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people forget these dogs are bred to NOT be human aggressive, even if they are fought, who wants a dog that is going to bite the owner? The human aggressiveness is a learned trait.
I have two pits and a mutt, I've had labs, and golden retrievers, and the pits are without a doubt the most loyal and loving dogs I've ever been around.
When it is time, I will get another one.
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people forget these dogs are bred to NOT be human aggressive, even if they are fought, who wants a dog that is going to bite the owner? The human aggressiveness is a learned trait.
I have two pits and a mutt, I've had labs, and golden retrievers, and the pits are without a doubt the most loyal and loving dogs I've ever been around.
When it is time, I will get another one.
Right, they fight next to the owners as they encourage them is my understanding. It they went off on the guys, shit wouldnt work to well.
THEY CAN BITE Way beyond any other dog, make no mistake. If they go off, it aint funny. mine got into it BAD w/ eachother about 4 times.. I seen blood fly 3 FEET one time when they suddenly hit (fight over a blowing piece of paper ::) :o) Damn hard to break them up. The Staff sunk his big teeth right into the Pitts skull by the ear. Nasty!
They need be treated like a gun or other piece of equipment. Great dogs for the right person.
should NOT be the 1st breed a person owns...
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This is pathetic.......
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/sadreality.php (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/sadreality.php)
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This is pathetic.......
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/sadreality.php (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/sadreality.php)
That's terrible... They are a awesome breed. Just Dont forget though what part of their makeup came from.
Staffs dont seem to have as much of the "I NEED to fight other dogs" in their genetic make up.
THey been detuned a bit and bred for cosmetic standards. Plenty of Gameness left still though.
Staffs will avoid a fight, my Pitt would have called a cab to get to one if he could have.
He'd often try to start one w/ the big brindle. Pitts are geting bred by lots of PPL who should NOT.
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That's terrible... They are a awesome breed. Just Dont forget though what part of their makeup came from.
No, those photos are all very, very real. I've know Vironique and Rob since I was in veterinary school. She's an opinionated person (I think its her French-Canadian roots ;) ) but she's worked very, very hard with maintaining the PBRC website and keeping the facts straight with the pit bull breeds. I have to look through the photos more closely, but some of them may be photos taken from the humane societies where my wife and I worked in veterinary school. You will almost never see the media cover the torture these dogs sometimes go through. Its not a sensational story that instills fear in people and thus sells, unfortunately.
As far as their makeup goes.... yes, some pits/staffies can be dog aggressive. This happens in all breeds, except if its a dog aggressive dachshund or poodle or cocker spaniel, people tend to laugh at it. Again its responsible pet ownership. I had a moderately dog aggressive male staffie for years---with 4 other dogs and no problems. Training was a big, big deal with this dog to keep him from acting out. I also had to pay very close attention to him to anticipate his actions and prevent problems.
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Right, they fight next to the owners as they encourage them is my understanding. It they went off on the guys, shit wouldnt work to well.
THEY CAN BITE Way beyond any other dog, make no mistake. If they go off, it aint funny. mine got into it BAD w/ eachother about 4 times.. I seen blood fly 3 FEET one time when they suddenly hit (fight over a blowing piece of paper ::) :o) Damn hard to break them up. The Staff sunk his big teeth right into the Pitts skull by the ear. Nasty!
They need be treated like a gun or other piece of equipment. Great dogs for the right person.
should NOT be the 1st breed a person owns...
definately agree with this. It takes alot of training/time with the dogs, but once you have it down, it's like clockwork, the dog will always remember.
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Right, they fight next to the owners as they encourage them is my understanding. It they went off on the guys, shit wouldnt work to well.
THEY CAN BITE Way beyond any other dog, make no mistake. If they go off, it aint funny. mine got into it BAD w/ eachother about 4 times.. I seen blood fly 3 FEET one time when they suddenly hit (fight over a blowing piece of paper ::) :o) Damn hard to break them up. The Staff sunk his big teeth right into the Pitts skull by the ear. Nasty!
They need be treated like a gun or other piece of equipment. Great dogs for the right person.
should NOT be the 1st breed a person owns...
I have owned several pits. They should be raised correctly. Which includes proper socialization starting from the time they are puppy's. If a person has to treat there pit like a "weapon" or a piece of "equipment" they have no idea how to train dogs correctly imo. Guns are kept locked away. Dangerous equipment is kept locked up. I cant understand a properly socialized dog having to be treated like a gun.
There should always be supervision when a dog is interacting with kids or strangers. If they need to be treated like a "gun" the owner did not do a good job training his dog. My pits never got into a fight where blood was drawn.
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It takes no more effort to train a pit then any other dominant breed dog. Pits are actually easier to train then a lot of other breeds due to there intelligence and natural urge to please there masters. I don't agree with having to treat your pit like a "gun" at all (as posted above). Guns are locked away and dangerous. Any type of dog (including pits) should be supervised at all times when with children or interacting with strangers. Same thing at the dog park. If you have to do more then simply supervise your dog (in case anything was to go down) you have not done a adequate job training it.
This was a general post. Not directed at anyone in particular.
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It takes no more effort to train a pit then any other dominant breed dog. Pits are actually easier to train then a lot of other breeds due to there intelligence and natural urge to please there masters. I don't agree with having to treat your pit like a "gun" at all (as posted above). Guns are locked away and dangerous. Any type of dog (including pits) should be supervised at all times when with children or interacting with strangers. Same thing at the dog park. If you have to do more then simply supervise your dog (in case anything was to go down) you have not done a adequate job training it.
This was a general post. Not directed at anyone in particular.
Dont tell me about guns city boy. My guns are where I can use them.I've grown up with them, and a dozen different breed of K9.
A pitbull can do all the dammage of a firearm and more, needs be treated with respect. Nobody sould own one that aint had other breeds before IMO.
"Training" goes a long way, but if you have anything worthy of the name "Pitt". It is endline of centurys of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet. Deny this and you are STUPID! I like the fighting breeds. They are rewarding to own. But dont kid yourself its the same as a cocker spaniel. No NO NO.
BYW, I never seen a gun chew its way out of a sturdy chain line cage.
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if pits had temperaments like cocker spaniels they would really be a handfull.
some of these posts are making pits sound like these weapons who unless strictly trained and handled will be out terrorizing everything in their path. no one would deny that pits have some animal agression, so do many other breeds, but theres no need to overstate it. i mean i take my pit to the dog park alteast 4 or 5 times a week and never had any problems. yes they have a fighting past but they are much more than that, they are also know for their outstanding temperaments, their work as therapy dogs, their love of children which gave them the nickname the "nanny dog", their history of being the number one family dog in america, ect. ive grown up around pits and in my experience they are extremely intellegent, obediant, and easy to train. im not saying people should ignore the pits fighting past, it should be respected and taken into consideration, im just sayin its in their past and doesnt have to be a issue unless the owner makes it one.
also wanted to point out that it is a myth that pitbulls bite force is much greater than any other breed. domestic dogs have a psi in the 300 to 320 range, that includes pits.
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Dont tell me about guns city boy. My guns are where I can use them.I've grown up with them, and a dozen different breed of K9.
A pitbull can do all the dammage of a firearm and more, needs be treated with respect. Nobody sould own one that aint had other breeds before IMO.
"Training" goes a long way, but if you have anything worthy of the name "Pitt". It is endline of centurys of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet. Deny this and you are STUPID! I like the fighting breeds. They are rewarding to own. But dont kid yourself its the same as a cocker spaniel. No NO NO.
BYW, I never seen a gun chew its way out of a sturdy chain line cage.
First off this "city boy" has owned several pitbulls. I'm talking true pits. Secondly you missed the point of my post. I know the capabilities of pitbulls. I know they should be respected. That is true for MANY breeds. I know what a true fighting "game" pit is all about, I owned 2 from "game" lines. I am refering to "game" in the sense of fighting. I know about the fighting lines you are talking about. Why would you want a true fighting bull in todays society? Why would you encourage that? That goes against pretty much everything socialization and proper training promote. It also gives pitbulls a bad name. I liked this line the the best from your post ::). "It is endline of century's of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet". That statement is everything wrong with some pitbull owners. You focus on the negative aspects a pit can have. Dog fighting is illegal and cruel. To promote bone crushing, aggressive behavior, fighting, and "fighting gameness" in general is counterproductive to the breed. "fighting breeds" are not required to fight. My buddy has a Tosa. The dog is a sweetheart. I don't care what the line is, if you properly raise and socialize a puppy he can be a loyal and peaceful animal. You can break the cycle with older aggressive dogs also. My point was if you have a game fighting pit that has to be treated like a "gun" or a "machine" you don't know how to train dogs properly. That or you encourage the aggressive behavior instead of channeling the gameness into positive behaviors.. The only people who care about how game a pit is are insecure tough guys, or dog fighters. Both the lowest of the low that are dragging the whole breed down. No one is trying to compare pits to cocker spaniels. We are stressing that properly trained and socialized pitbulls are just like any other dominant breed out there. They can be very gentle and are great with kids.
Stop spouting off about "bone crushing ", "game" pits. The only clowns who own those are fighters or meatballs who promote aggressive behavior. What use does a "bone crushing" , unsocialized pit ( or any other breed) have as a pet?
My pits came from legit fighting lines, both where considered game in a fighting sense. But instead of promoting aggressive behavior I socialized them and trained them. They never got in one serious fight. Smarten up boss. My bitch was about 35 lbs. Damion was about 65. Both came from game lines. Both where examples of true pitbulls. Not the overly muscled amstaff clones you see today, with the huge heads and giant size. I own a 90 lb American bulldog right now. He is 1 1/2 years old. He comes from a line where the original sire was a revered boar hunter. That = a heavy prey drive. You know what? He is gentle as a baby with other animals. That comes from socialization.
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Dont tell me about guns city boy. My guns are where I can use them.I've grown up with them, and a dozen different breed of K9.
A pitbull can do all the dammage of a firearm and more, needs be treated with respect. Nobody sould own one that aint had other breeds before IMO.
"Training" goes a long way, but if you have anything worthy of the name "Pitt". It is endline of centurys of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet. Deny this and you are STUPID! I like the fighting breeds. They are rewarding to own. But dont kid yourself its the same as a cocker spaniel. No NO NO.
BYW, I never seen a gun chew its way out of a sturdy chain line cage.
LOL. Trab, please quit making stupid blanket statements... Its statements like this that really perpetuate peoples and the media's idiocy.
"Training" goes a long way, but if you have anything worthy of the name "Pitt". It is endline of centurys of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet. Deny this and you are STUPID!
I own a "game bred" pitt--she was a rescue I've had for the last 10 years. She's intense, but she's also perhaps the most loving family pet i've ever owned. Mila does everything at 120%. Thats what I love about her...the intensity. Thats what I see with most "game bred" dogs, they are not automatic killing machines. One of the most "game bred" dogs I've ever seen was owned by a woman with a small girl. Kane was somewhat of a legend in and around Columbia Missouri in the 1990's because of how gentle he was with his owners children and how protective he was of their yard. He was the only pitbull in that part of the city that the owners could let out unchained in their fenced back yard without fear of someone trying to steal him.... because he was Kane. ;) and he never once did anything to their children other than share his bed, play with them, and give them all of the love that a "Game bred" pit is capable of giving. My cousin owned a very, very "game bred" dog--one that he used to hunt wild pigs with all over the Carolina's and Georgia. Taz killed more than one boar by himself as a hunting dog. Yet he never showed any "BONE CRUNCHING KILLING MACHINE AGGRESSION" towards humans.
Again, it boils down to the fact that they are a dog and a dogs behavior is directly related to the owners, the training of the dog, and the evironment the dog was raised in. "Game bred" dogs can make great pets, if the owners take into consideration and consider the breeding of the dog and train them as a dog should be trained.
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LOL. Trab, please quit making stupid blanket statements... Its statements like this that really perpetuate peoples and the media's idiocy.
I own a "game bred" pitt--she was a rescue I've had for the last 10 years. She's intense, but she's also perhaps the most loving family pet i've ever owned. Mila does everything at 120%. Thats what I love about her...the intensity. Thats what I see with most "game bred" dogs, they are not automatic killing machines. One of the most "game bred" dogs I've ever seen was owned by a woman with a small girl. Kane was somewhat of a legend in and around Columbia Missouri in the 1990's because of how gentle he was with his owners children and how protective he was of their yard. He was the only pitbull in that part of the city that the owners could let out unchained in their fenced back yard without fear of someone trying to steal him.... because he was Kane. ;) and he never once did anything to their children other than share his bed, play with them, and give them all of the love that a "Game bred" pit is capable of giving. My cousin owned a very, very "game bred" dog--one that he used to hunt wild pigs with all over the Carolina's and Georgia. Taz killed more than one boar by himself as a hunting dog. Yet he never showed any "BONE CRUNCHING KILLING MACHINE AGGRESSION" towards humans.
Again, it boils down to the fact that they are a dog and a dogs behavior is directly related to the owners, the training of the dog, and the evironment the dog was raised in. "Game bred" dogs can make great pets, if the owners take into consideration and consider the breeding of the dog and train them as a dog should be trained.
Great post!
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Great post!
As was yours above mine.
"Gameness" of a dog isn't that dogs "bone crunching killing" ability.
The true definition of "Gameness" is the intensity of purpose of which a dog is able to perform a job designated by its owner. A game dog is "intense" in that it will pursue a "job" with a singlemindedness that bypasses all distractors.
This gameness can be seen in a dog chasing a frisby or a tennis ball---there are some nonpit flyball dogs out there that can only be described as "game" in the way they do their "job". It can be seen in a dog used for hunting in the way that it pursues game. Unfortunately too many people associate "Gameness" with "bone crunching killing ability" because of misinformation they've read on the internet and seen in papers or on the news. A "game dog" is not automatically a killer.
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As was yours above mine.
"Gameness" of a dog isn't that dogs "bone crunching killing" ability.
The true definition of "Gameness" is the intensity of purpose of which a dog is able to perform a job designated by its owner. A game dog is "intense" in that it will pursue a "job" with a singlemindedness that bypasses all distractors.
This gameness can be seen in a dog chasing a frisby or a tennis ball---there are some nonpit flyball dogs out there that can only be described as "game" in the way they do their "job". It can be seen in a dog used for hunting in the way that it pursues game. Unfortunately too many people associate "Gameness" with "bone crunching killing ability" because of misinformation they've read on the internet and seen in papers or on the news. A "game dog" is not automatically a killer.
100 percent true. There are some extremely "game" jack Russel terriers out there. Unfortunately when discussing pits usually the gameness is referring to fighting. People are fed so much bs when it comes to pits it almost makes you sick.
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LOL. Trab, please quit making stupid blanket statements... Its statements like this that really perpetuate peoples and the media's idiocy.
I own a "game bred" pitt--she was a rescue I've had for the last 10 years. She's intense, but she's also perhaps the most loving family pet i've ever owned. Mila does everything at 120%. Thats what I love about her...the intensity. Thats what I see with most "game bred" dogs, they are not automatic killing machines. One of the most "game bred" dogs I've ever seen was owned by a woman with a small girl. Kane was somewhat of a legend in and around Columbia Missouri in the 1990's because of how gentle he was with his owners children and how protective he was of their yard. He was the only pitbull in that part of the city that the owners could let out unchained in their fenced back yard without fear of someone trying to steal him.... because he was Kane. ;) and he never once did anything to their children other than share his bed, play with them, and give them all of the love that a "Game bred" pit is capable of giving. My cousin owned a very, very "game bred" dog--one that he used to hunt wild pigs with all over the Carolina's and Georgia. Taz killed more than one boar by himself as a hunting dog. Yet he never showed any "BONE CRUNCHING KILLING MACHINE AGGRESSION" towards humans.
Again, it boils down to the fact that they are a dog and a dogs behavior is directly related to the owners, the training of the dog, and the evironment the dog was raised in. "Game bred" dogs can make great pets, if the owners take into consideration and consider the breeding of the dog and train them as a dog should be trained.
Doc... Iaint saying they are the massive danger to ppl that the media like to show, it's quite the opposite w/ most Pitts.
BUT THEY ARE DAMN CAPPABLE. Denying that is BS.
Their chewing abilty is unbelievabe. They dont let go. Its deep in their nature. You know that.
My opinion is they belong..
1. Indoors
2. on a stout piece of chain, on your property where nobody that dont know that dog has legal right to be, (even that can go wrong w/ strange kids).
3. On a stout lead, w/ a pincer choke-collar and someone strong enough to control that animal.
All these ppl w/ cheap chain link or wood fence in the city with pitts sticking their heads over the top are at a extreme liabilty issue. Those that lett them run free are brain dead.
Pitts and Rotties both got to popular for their own good. Whats being bred is a joke.
Agressive animals aint funny, a lab or shepard bites; A pit grabs, and shakes till a piece comes off, then chokes up deeper! Dont deny what these animals can do. And even though domesticated, they are ANIMALS w/ instincts and automatic reactions at times.
I doubt you'd last long at work w/ out keeping that in mind.
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if pits had temperaments like cocker spaniels they would really be a handfull.
The above statment is 100% correct IMO. MOST Pitts LOVE people.
THis statment Here, ::) I'd like the Doc to respond to - 'cause its 100% wrong!
also wanted to point out that it is a myth that pitbulls bite force is much greater than any other breed. domestic dogs have a psi in the 300 to 320 range, that includes pits.
Pits biting power is in its own leauge. SHow me other dogs that masive that can jump, bite, and HANG and Shake?
Be real here.
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As was yours above mine.
"Gameness" of a dog isn't that dogs "bone crunching killing" ability.
The true definition of "Gameness" is the intensity of purpose of which a dog is able to perform a job designated by its owner. A game dog is "intense" in that it will pursue a "job" with a singlemindedness that bypasses all distractors.
This gameness can be seen in a dog chasing a frisby or a tennis ball---there are some nonpit flyball dogs out there that can only be described as "game" in the way they do their "job". It can be seen in a dog used for hunting in the way that it pursues game. Unfortunately too many people associate "Gameness" with "bone crunching killing ability" because of misinformation they've read on the internet and seen in papers or on the news. A "game dog" is not automatically a killer.
Vet, I'm really surprised to see YOU write this. Revisionist historian?
Fill 'em in on Dog fighting history, you know it Im sure.
Gameness w/ Pitts refers to their refusal to let go, or surrender, at all costs.
That is if you are still calling them "Pitt Bulls".
They are one of the Fighting breeds that man has bred over the ages. Rat terriers fought rats while men gambled in England after dog fighting became illegal. I believe Sharpies (sp) loose skin was a fighting breed byproduct.
Guy Tells me they have the same biting power as other breeds? ;D Well, 20 more yrs of breeding the scraggly mangy stuff people are now calling "Pitts" and He'll then be correct.
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Hey, try living in Florida & dealing with the pitbull issue. My 3 AB's are always seen & classified as pits......the "evil dogs". It really drives me crazy sometimes.
Just a thought......would you ever see a poodle attack on the evening news? No. >:( Anyway, just a few months ago, I walked into a house (for a loan closing) & got attacked by a Jack Russell who took a chunk of my finger. It didn't make the news & yeah, I am done venting for now.
Kim
damn ankle biters
;D
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My opinion is they belong..
1. Indoors
2. on a stout piece of chain, on your property where nobody that dont know that dog has legal right to be, (even that can go wrong w/ strange kids).
3. On a stout lead, w/ a pincer choke-collar and someone strong enough to control that animal.
wow...thats really a damn shame.... if your pits are agressive i can understand why.
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wow...thats really a damn shame.... if your pits are agressive i can understand why.
You let yours run free? THATS a shame, and negligence.
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Do you put your dogs on a lead & pinch collar in the house?
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Dont tell me about guns city boy. My guns are where I can use them.I've grown up with them, and a dozen different breed of K9.
A pitbull can do all the dammage of a firearm and more, needs be treated with respect. Nobody sould own one that aint had other breeds before IMO.
"Training" goes a long way, but if you have anything worthy of the name "Pitt". It is endline of centurys of selective breeding to be the best ripping, bone crunching, DO NOT SURRENDER Fighting dog on the planet. Deny this and you are STUPID! I like the fighting breeds. They are rewarding to own. But dont kid yourself its the same as a cocker spaniel. No NO NO.
BYW, I never seen a gun chew its way out of a sturdy chain line cage.
trab....Do you have one of these bumper stickers on your monster truck?
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:uP-ft8Cs3l86uM:http://www.stickershok.com/GRAPHICS/P-STICK/p-144.gif)
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trab....Do you have one of these bumper stickers on your monster truck?
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:uP-ft8Cs3l86uM:http://www.stickershok.com/GRAPHICS/P-STICK/p-144.gif)
What would you rather have...? A jacketed 9mm or .38 cal slug in the leg, or a 65lb pit bull on that leg?
Bullet Please!
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wow...thats really a damn shame.... if your pits are agressive i can understand why.
Do you let your run free? That is a wreck waiting to happen.
The legal term is negligence.
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run free in the house....or yard?
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run free in the house....or yard?
Yard of course K.
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What would you rather have...? A jacketed 9mm or .38 cal slug in the leg, or a 65lb pit bull on that leg?
Bullet Please!
You missed my point.
(http://www.wwe.com/content/media/images/309846/3800110/3800116/hillybilly_jim_02.jpg)
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Yard of course K.
why do you opt putting the dog on a pinch collar & tied down in the back yard vs other alternatives?
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Pits biting power is in its own leauge. SHow me other dogs that masive that can jump, bite, and HANG and Shake?
Be real here.
Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic – Dr. Barr measured bite forces of many different creatures. Domestic dogs were included in the test.
Here are the results of all of the animals tested:
Humans: 120 pounds of bite pressure
Domestic dogs: 320 LBS of pressure on avg. A German Shepard, American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) and Rottweiler were tested using a bite sleeve equipped with a specialized computer instrument. The APBT had the least amount of pressure of the 3 dogs tested.
Wild dogs: 310 lbs
Lions: 600 lbs
White sharks: 600 lbs
Hyenas: 1000 lbs
Snapping turtles: 1000 lbs
Crocodiles: 2500 lbs
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why do you opt putting the dog on a pinch collar & tied down in the back yard vs other alternatives?
Misscom there Bud.
Pincer only for walking on a lead. NEVER CHAIN like that, that F'n mean and dangerous.
I see these jackass walking powerfull K9s on a piece of string, or one of them wind up Kite flyer things ::).
Please, If you own a powerfull animal, you need to be able to control it.
Just wait till some damn little yaping peice of crap runs out and grabs a dog your walking. If you cant get his head away and get some disstance quick, you have a big issue for your dog simply defending himself.
Most dogs dont know or care their size.
My Staffie got attacked by a Wolf/ shepard hybred. Put it this way, the guy saved his wolf.
Dude let it run free all over the neighborhood. It'd make 6' piss territory marking scrapes for blocks!
One right next to a school bus stop. He'd stand in his scrape and turn circles and guard it.
Those (Wolf hybreds) should ALL but put down IMO.
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Just wait till some damn little yaping peice of crap runs out and grabs a dog your walking. If you cant get his head away and get some disstance quick, you have a big issue for your dog simply defending himself.
Most dogs dont know or care their size.
Hey! I have a "little yapping piece of crap". >:(
If you expect pit bulls to be respected as a breed, then you should extend the same courtesy to other breeds.
Every breed of dog was bred for a particular purpose or job, all should be respected for that. You don't have to like a particular breed, just try and respect it's original purpose.
One of the reasons I dislike designer breeds, their only purpose is money for the "breeders", but that is a topic for another thread.
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Doc... Iaint saying they are the massive danger to ppl that the media like to show, it's quite the opposite w/ most Pitts.
BUT THEY ARE DAMN CAPPABLE. Denying that is BS.
Any large dog is "damn capable". Being a pitbull or a german shepard or a Dogo or a St. Bernard has nothing to do with it. Its not a breed issue, its a matter of size of the animal and relative muscle mass. Given that, yes, "Pits" are capable of injuring a person. Again, it goes back to what i've been saying all along---its responsible pet ownership, not the breed that prevents animal bites.
Their chewing abilty is unbelievabe. They dont let go. Its deep in their nature. You know that.
I know what you just posted is pure bullshit. You've obviously never worked a pack of coonhounds "hitting" a big raccoon. Pits have the same relative chewing ability to any other breed of dog. True, they have increased muscle mass of their head and neck relative to some breeds, but stop and think for a minute. The limiting factor with a bite isn't the muscle mass but the structure and strength of the teeth. If you believe some of the bullshit internet crap about pitbull biting force, you have to think that they've got supercanine teeth too. 2000 lbs of biting force would absolutely shatter their teeth, thus preventing them from holding onto anything. They are a dog, and just like any other dog, they are capable of biting a human hard enough to puncture the skin, but they are not "unbelievable". One of the most impressive bite performances I've ever seen was with a Shutzhund III Malinois dog I had as a patient right out of veterinary school. The dogs handler was throwing a tennis ball, bouncing it off a car tire in the hospital parking lot as he was talking to me and a couple of other employees about his dogs (everyone was gone). The ball took an odd bounce, and as the dog jumped for it, he missed, biting into the sidewall of the tire on the car---puncturing the tire wall, blowing out the tire, and breaking off his canine tooth. This was a 60 lb Malinois, not a 60 lb Pitbull. My point is all dogs are capable of biting and pits aren't some supernatural force. They are a dog.
My opinion is they belong..
1. Indoors
2. on a stout piece of chain, on your property where nobody that dont know that dog has legal right to be, (even that can go wrong w/ strange kids).
3. On a stout lead, w/ a pincer choke-collar and someone strong enough to control that animal.
All these ppl w/ cheap chain link or wood fence in the city with pitts sticking their heads over the top are at a extreme liabilty issue. Those that lett them run free are brain dead.
In a round about way I don't disagree with you, but my thoughts are based on the ridiculous bias people have towards pitbulls. When I used to work for the humane society, just about every large headed dog was called a "pit". I really think the average schmuck has no idea what an Amstaff or APBT really is. They cannot or choose not to tell that breed from a group of 10 similar looking dogs. That stupidity/lack of knowledge complicates things for pitbull owners. My dogs are inside all the time unless I'm outside to watch them. I'll be honest, I rarely leash them, but I will use the leash if there are strange dogs or people around so I've got physical control of the dog. My dogs are also all trained the "heel tight" meaning they heel to my left side touching me or just about touching me at all times unless i tell them to relax. They are trained to "stop" and "Look" under all conditions---we are working with the puppy now to break up intense play with the other dogs where she has to "stop" and "look" at my wife and I immediately, no matter how rough they are playing. The idea behind this is based on the Shutzhund idea of having verbal control over the dog at all times. Again, I consider it responsible pet ownership. A pincer/choke chain isn't going to do shit to stop an overexhuberant excited dog if the owner hasn't taken the time to train it appropriately. I've seen dogs injured by choke chains from owners yanking on them---you can collapse a dogs larynx if you aren't careful. they aren't the answer.
Pitts and Rotties both got to popular for their own good. Whats being bred is a joke.
Agressive animals aint funny, a lab or shepard bites; A pit grabs, and shakes till a piece comes off, then chokes up deeper! Dont deny what these animals can do. And even though domesticated, they are ANIMALS w/ instincts and automatic reactions at times.
I doubt you'd last long at work w/ out keeping that in mind.
Dude, my advice to you is drop your preconcieved ideas. There is such bias with what you are posting, its going to be hard, but from what I see, you've bought into some ridiculous stuff. A pit is a dog. Dogs can bite. No one is not denying that. The thing is they are not some superanimal killing machine like you seem to have in your mental image. They also don't have a long prolific history of being ridiculous superanimal killing machines other than that created in peoples minds and by the media. They are a dog.
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Hey! I have a "little yapping piece of crap". >:(
If you expect pit bulls to be respected as a breed, then you should extend the same courtesy to other breeds.
Every breed of dog was bred for a particular purpose or job, all should be respected for that. You don't have to like a particular breed, just try and respect it's original purpose.
One of the reasons I dislike designer breeds, their only purpose is money for the "breeders", but that is a topic for another thread.
Well, YOU dont let it jump off the porch and attack every passerby on the sidewalk though. SO it not one of them.
Many People think just becaues its not a big dog they can let it run free, well, Ive seen a serious car accident because of a dog running out in the road.
If someone is walking a big dog and the small "harmless" dog runs out and
creates a problem, it's really the person w/ the unleashed dogs fault. Thats a good way to loose a pitt or Rottie etc.
That stuff often happens too fast to stop.
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Vet, I'm really surprised to see YOU write this. Revisionist historian?
Fill 'em in on Dog fighting history, you know it Im sure.
Gameness w/ Pitts refers to their refusal to let go, or surrender, at all costs.
That is if you are still calling them "Pitt Bulls".
They are one of the Fighting breeds that man has bred over the ages. Rat terriers fought rats while men gambled in England after dog fighting became illegal. I believe Sharpies (sp) loose skin was a fighting breed byproduct.
Guy Tells me they have the same biting power as other breeds? ;D Well, 20 more yrs of breeding the scraggly mangy stuff people are now calling "Pitts" and He'll then be correct.
Again, "Gameness" is the intensity of purpose of which a dog is able to perform a job designated by its owner. A game dog is "intense" in that it will pursue a "job" with a singlemindedness that bypasses all distractors. Gameness has nothing to do with killing ability. its a term that is used for many, many different activities in different breeds.
As far as history of the breed goes:
I know that the worst cases of animal abuse I've ever seen have all been towards pitbulls. The torture and damage some of these dogs are forced to endure is enough to give a sane person nightmares.
I know that Helen Keller---a blind deaf woman owned a pitbull
I know that President Teddy Roosevelt owned a pitbull terrier.
I know that my great great grandfather used a pitbull for hearding the cattle, hunting, and guarding his family. This is the same dog that ran along side of their wagon as they moved into Missouri almost 2 centuries ago.
I know that the dog in the little rascals television show as a pitbull, and it was chosen as a reflection of the dogs people kept at that time--just like Eddie on Frasier and all of the television dogs that you now see.
I know that some of the best drug sniffing dogs currently employed by the US are pitbulls
I know that the American Pitbull was a symbol of valor used for US based war propoganda during WWI and WWII.
I will not deny the history of the breed and the fighting that was part of that history, but I will also not choose to ignore the deeper history that is so much more of this dog, a dog that helped forge the nation I call my home.
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Any large dog is "damn capable". Being a pitbull or a german shepard or a Dogo or a St. Bernard has nothing to do with it. Its not a breed issue, its a matter of size of the animal and relative muscle mass. Given that, yes, "Pits" are capable of injuring a person. Again, it goes back to what i've been saying all along---its responsible pet ownership, not the breed that prevents animal bites.
I know what you just posted is pure bullshit. You've obviously never worked a pack of #### hounds "hitting" a big ####. Pits have the same relative chewing ability to any other breed of dog. True, they have increased muscle mass of their head and neck relative to some breeds, but stop and think for a minute. The limiting factor with a bite isn't the muscle mass but the structure and strength of the teeth. If you believe some of the bullshit internet crap about pitbull biting force, you have to think that they've got supercanine teeth too. 2000 lbs of biting force would absolutely shatter their teeth, thus preventing them from holding onto anything. They are a dog, and just like any other dog, they are capable of biting a human hard enough to puncture the skin, but they are not "unbelievable". One of the most impressive bite performances I've ever seen was with a Shutzhund III Malinois dog I had as a patient right out of veterinary school. The dogs handler was throwing a tennis ball, bouncing it off a car tire in the hospital parking lot as he was talking to me and a couple of other employees about his dogs (everyone was gone). The ball took an odd bounce, and as the dog jumped for it, he missed, biting into the sidewall of the tire on the car---puncturing the tire wall, blowing out the tire, and breaking off his canine tooth. This was a 60 lb Malinois, not a 60 lb Pitbull. My point is all dogs are capable of biting and pits aren't some supernatural force. They are a dog.
In a round about way I don't disagree with you, but my thoughts are based on the ridiculous bias people have towards pitbulls. When I used to work for the humane society, just about every large headed dog was called a "pit". I really think the average schmuck has no idea what an Amstaff or APBT really is. They cannot or choose not to tell that breed from a group of 10 similar looking dogs. That stupidity/lack of knowledge complicates things for pitbull owners. My dogs are inside all the time unless I'm outside to watch them. I'll be honest, I rarely leash them, but I will use the leash if there are strange dogs or people around so I've got physical control of the dog. My dogs are also all trained the "heel tight" meaning they heel to my left side touching me or just about touching me at all times unless i tell them to relax. They are trained to "stop" and "Look" under all conditions---we are working with the puppy now to break up intense play with the other dogs where she has to "stop" and "look" at my wife and I immediately, no matter how rough they are playing. The idea behind this is based on the Shutzhund idea of having verbal control over the dog at all times. Again, I consider it responsible pet ownership. A pincer/choke chain isn't going to do shit to stop an overexhuberant excited dog if the owner hasn't taken the time to train it appropriately. I've seen dogs injured by choke chains from owners yanking on them---you can collapse a dogs larynx if you aren't careful. they aren't the answer.
Dude, my advice to you is drop your preconcieved ideas. There is such bias with what you are posting, its going to be hard, but from what I see, you've bought into some ridiculous stuff. A pit is a dog. Dogs can bite. No one is not denying that. The thing is they are not some superanimal killing machine like you seem to have in your mental image. They also don't have a long prolific history of being ridiculous superanimal killing machines other than that created in peoples minds and by the media. They are a dog.
Vet there is absolutely no point arguing w/ someone who is going to say pitbulls bite is not much different than other breed. I doubt you believe it. I like pitts too. But im not going to sugarcoat what they are capable of.
"Pits have the same relative chewing abiliyt" ::)... WOW!
YOu also have not read very carefully what Ive wrote. Im not calling them some supernatural killing machine.
But your denial that they are capable of extra ordinary biting and holding power, and having a will that refuses to release is just plain not what anyone who owns them knows is true. Total denial.
Im suprised to hear this form a Vet. ALL Vets Ive known are EXTRA cautious of these animals (and they Loved mine). Rather Get bit by a 80lb lab or a 50lb pit grab hold of you?...Hmmmm
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Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic – Dr. Barr measured bite forces of many different creatures. Domestic dogs were included in the test.
Here are the results of all of the animals tested:
Humans: 120 pounds of bite pressure
Domestic dogs: 320 LBS of pressure on avg. A German Shepard, American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) and Rottweiler were tested using a bite sleeve equipped with a specialized computer instrument. The APBT had the least amount of pressure of the 3 dogs tested.
Wild dogs: 310 lbs
Lions: 600 lbs
White sharks: 600 lbs
Hyenas: 1000 lbs
Snapping turtles: 1000 lbs
Crocodiles: 2500 lbs
This was a very interesting study. There was one flaw to it that needs to be acknowledged.... even though the pitbull tested was trained to a sleeve, the handler stated they had a hard time getting an accurate measurement on the bite of the APBT because the dog seemed to "hold back" a bit while biting the sleeve.
I know a couple of people who have tried to train pits for Shutzhund and they have made similar comments--they are reluctant to hit the sleeve compared to a shepard or other breeds. The dogs do amazingly well at tracking and obedience, but they have a very hard time getting the dog to take the sleeve. To me it again points out the nature of the breed and the general reluctance for a trained and appropriately socialized pit to bite a human. This was also proven to me when I was in veterinary school. My wife had my dogs in our back yard---we had a 5 foot privacy fence. She was playing fetch with my male pit, when suddenly another dog was thrown over the fence, it hits the ground and attacks my dog. It turns out the neighbor thug rugrats wanted to see a dog fight so they took their dads dog, untied him, brought him down the street, whipped him with the leash (to wind him up) and then threw him over my fence practically ontop of my dog. Unfortunately this strange dog also attacked my dog. My wife got them apart by literally putting her hand inside Teddys mouth to keep him from biting the strange dog and roping the strange dog with a leash and restraining it until she had verbal control over our dog. Teddy would not bite down on her hand---now I'll be the first to say what she did was seriously stupid, especially considering she needs her hands as a surgeon, but it is another example of the reluctance of well socialized pitbulls from biting their owners/humans. And I'll be the first to say Teddy was the most dog aggressive pit I've ever owned.
The bottom line is they are not mindless killing machines. They are dogs. They can be trained and they can be socialized to be very level headed stable family pets.
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Vet there is absolutely no point arguing w/ someone who is going to say pitbulls bite is not much different than other breed. I doubt you believe it. I like pitts too. But im not going to sugarcoat what they are capable of.
"Pits have the same relative chewing abiliyt" ::)... WOW!
YOu also have not read very carefully what Ive wrote. Im not calling them some supernatural killing machine.
But your denial that they are capable of extra ordinary biting and holding power, and having a will that refuses to release is just plain not what anyone who owns them knows is true. Total denial.
Im suprised to hear this form a Vet. ALL Vets Ive known are EXTRA cautious of these animals (and they Loved mine). Rather Get bit by a 80lb lab or a 50lb pit grab hold of you?...Hmmmm
LOL. Trab, you really don't know what you are talking about. They are a dog. they are capable of biting just like any other large dog. What I'm saying is they have the same tooth structure of any other large dog. That is the limiting factor. they don't shatter their teeth when they do these increadibly strong bites you are talking about do they? Think about it. The tooth breaking strength is the limiting factor with any bite.
I personally dont' want to get bitten by any dog. Dog bites hurt be it a chihuahua or a pitbull.
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Misscom there Bud.
Pincer only for walking on a lead. NEVER CHAIN like that, that F'n mean and dangerous.
I see these jackass walking powerfull K9s on a piece of string, or one of them wind up Kite flyer things ::).
Please, If you own a powerfull animal, you need to be able to control it.
Just wait till some damn little yaping peice of crap runs out and grabs a dog your walking. If you cant get his head away and get some disstance quick, you have a big issue for your dog simply defending himself.
Most dogs dont know or care their size.
My Staffie got attacked by a Wolf/ shepard hybred. Put it this way, the guy saved his wolf.
Dude let it run free all over the neighborhood. It'd make 6' piss territory marking scrapes for blocks!
One right next to a school bus stop. He'd stand in his scrape and turn circles and guard it.
Those (Wolf hybreds) should ALL but put down IMO.
Again, I agree with the first part of what you are posting---but its responsible pet ownership, not the need for a choke chain or pinch collar.
As far as wolf hybrids---most of the ones I've encountered aren't. They are shepard breed dogs and owners who think owning a wolf is something cool. Now don't get me wrong, there are true wolf hybrids out there, but they are much, much fewer than the majority of people who talk about them want to acknowledge. think about it, to get a wolf hybrid, you need to have a female dog (or wolf) that is receptive to being bred by a wolf (or dog), they need to breed, and they need to produce viable offspring that you then breed back to the wolf. The nature of dogs and wolves by itself makes this a very, very difficult task. I just don't see the average dog/wolf cross occuring without a great deal of human intervention.
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Well, YOU dont let it jump off the porch and attack every passerby on the sidewalk though. SO it not one of them.
Many People think just becaues its not a big dog they can let it run free, well, Ive seen a serious car accident because of a dog running out in the road.
If someone is walking a big dog and the small "harmless" dog runs out and
creates a problem, it's really the person w/ the unleashed dogs fault. Thats a good way to loose a pitt or Rottie etc.
That stuff often happens too fast to stop.
Well I have been approached while walking my dogs by both small dogs and a larger dogs, including a pit bull. I see dogs of all sizes out in people's yard, off leash on our walks. I don't care what size the dog is, I do not appreciate a dog coming up to me and my dogs. Especially now that I usually have all 4 of my dogs, or about 400# of dog plus whatever the rude dog weighs to contend with.
My point was you calling them "little yappy pieces of crap" is like someone calling pits "man eating pieces of crap". Neither dog is a piece of crap. :P
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My point was you calling them "little yappy pieces of crap" is like someone calling pits "man eating pieces of crap". Neither dog is a piece of crap. :P
I agree.
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This was a very interesting study. There was one flaw to it that needs to be acknowledged.... even though the pitbull tested was trained to a sleeve, the handler stated they had a hard time getting an accurate measurement on the bite of the APBT because the dog seemed to "hold back" a bit while biting the sleeve.
yes i would agree with that. it would be in the pits nature not to bite down on the sleave at full force. even when taking that into consideration i think it would be a safe assumtion that even at full force the psi wouldnt be off the chart compared to other dogs. i mean i have seen outrageous claims of a psi any where from 1000 to 1800. this often goes along with the so call locking jaw myth.
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I agree.
stop agreeing with me!! You're creeping me out!! ;D
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LOL. Trab, you really don't know what you are talking about. They are a dog. they are capable of biting just like any other large dog. What I'm saying is they have the same tooth structure of any other large dog. That is the limiting factor. they don't shatter their teeth when they do these increadibly strong bites you are talking about do they? Think about it. The tooth breaking strength is the limiting factor with any bite.
I personally dont' want to get bitten by any dog. Dog bites hurt be it a chihuahua or a pitbull.
I know EXACTLY what Im talking about.
YOur sugar coating the breed. SHe's lucky she's got her hand is right!
And yes theres human intervention in creating wolf/ shepards - you well know that.
And pits were bred to fight FOR humans not attack them. Thier bite is way worse than other breeds, show me pics of how many other large breed can hang suspended like pitts ENJOY doing!!!
Dont protect all these jerks w/ a flimsy little wire or chain Link or wood fence w/ a Pitt or other larger breed in it.
FOR THOSE WHO DO - CONSIDER THIS - That animal mauls or kills someones kid - they might just NOT settle it w/ lawyers and the courts!!
Control your animal is the law.
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One thing I do know...that I've never had a dog with jaw strength like our Rottie.
He gets a hold of a kids ball for a split second & "poof".....it's deflated. Kind of funny actually.
I gave him an 8lb medicine ball just to see what happened. Well...no lie here...but I had to take it away because in a matter of a minute...he was shredding it.
But the thing thats funny....it's not his jaw strength I worry about...it's his tongue strength - lol
If I'm on the floor laughing at something...he immediately attacks me licking me like crazy & I swear he's trying to lodge his tongue down my ear canal - lol
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There are certain breeds that Iam always more cautious around. Will agree that it is not the breed so much as to how the dog was raised and socialized and how the owner keeps it. A golden retriever could be a biter if there are behavioral issues.
With that said the breeds I observe for aggression closest when Iam around them are: Rotweilers, Dobermans, Pitbulls, German Shepard, Chows, Dalmations, there are others. I have read that Pitbull bites were many times more than other breeds considering how many there are. It is dispropotionate against them....what gives??
Lots of people in my neighborhood have the Little terriers and others and most of them are complete monsters!! The people never socialized them with anyone or other dogs and the things will snap and snarl. My dog Cody the Lab just looks at them like what the hell? He has been in packs of dogs since he was 3 months and knows how to approach another dog, as we walk past these little dogs are all teeth and barks! The owners are there like dumb asses thinking it is no big deal "thats just the way little fefe is" Not all are like this but the numbers are disproportionately high against them too.
And yes you must by law always control your dog, it is your responsibility.
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I have owned several pits. They should be raised correctly. Which includes proper socialization starting from the time they are puppy's. If a person has to treat there pit like a "weapon" or a piece of "equipment" they have no idea how to train dogs correctly imo. Guns are kept locked away. Dangerous equipment is kept locked up. I cant understand a properly socialized dog having to be treated like a gun.
There should always be supervision when a dog is interacting with kids or strangers. If they need to be treated like a "gun" the owner did not do a good job training his dog. My pits never got into a fight where blood was drawn.
I think what he was getting at was that a pit should be respected and trained as such. Not necessarily saying it should be locked up, just have to respect the power and gameness of the breed.
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I think what he was getting at was that a pit should be respected and trained as such. Not necessarily saying it should be locked up, just have to respect the power and gameness of the breed.
I think we are all saying that you need to respect large breed dogs---they are all capable of delivering terrible bites to humans. I've personally had to use a "bite stick" to get a black lab off another dog when they got into a fight at a kennel I used to work at. These are black labs, not pitbulls. The one had the other by the back of the neck and was shaking it like a rag doll. I smashed my cup over the dogs head trying to get them apart. A hose didn't work either.
Thats where I'm coming from with my statements about biting force of pitbulls. Anatomically, they have no special structure that allows their jaws to "lock". Their bite strength is like all other breeds in that its proportional to head muscle mass and jaw structure. They have no special structure that gives them some form of supercanine biting ability---as a matter of fact anyone who has done anything with dogs who have actually been fought (which I will reluctantly admit, I've had enough dealings with these dogs, handlers of these dogs, and breeders of these dogs through the years) knows that its not the hardest biting dog that wins in a fight. This is much like a human boxer, in that the hardest hitting boxer isn't always the one that wins a fight. Its a combination of tenaciousness, agility, strength, skill, and speed. If you really want to get involved with those type of illegal (and terrible) activities and you think that your dog is something because it bites hard, you will soon learn you have a whole lot to learn about dogs.
In my experience dealing with pits in multiple states, it seems like the humans who will argue the hardest that pitbulls have some amazing, unnatural biting ability are either inner city punks who are selling the dogs for $1000 apiece out of the trunk of their car----people who obviously are trying to make a profit or they are people with this need to make themselves feel better by having this "super dog" or they are simply uneducated and they are spouting out something someone else has told them with little thought on what they are actually saying---unfortunately, I've seen some very educated individuals, including veterinary staff who will inadvertantly do this with pitbulls---I did relief work for one who swore that pits could "lock" their jaws with some special unidentified mechanism. That person was an idiot if you ask me because of the way he argued and argued and argued against scientific references (one of the best studies was out of Cornell Univeristy) that pitbulls do not have a special jaw structure, their bite is proportional to any other dogs considering muscle mass and head structure.
I'm not denying that pitbulls are large, powerful dogs, and in being such are capable of damaging bites to humans. The thing is they have absolutely no structure anatomically or physiologically that gives them some supercanine biting ability. They are a dog. Properly socialized and trained, they will make a wonderful family pet.
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Don't dodge the issue here. A forum is a place of discussion.
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf
Ok,
it would be real interesting to get flower's and knny's comments on these numbers:
Breed 1980 1982 1984 1986 1988 1990 1992 1994 1996 1998 Total
Purebred
Pit bull-type 2 5 10 9 11* 8 6 5 4* 6 66
Rottweiler 0 0 1 1 3 1 3 10 10 10 39
German Shepherd Dog 2 1 4* 1 1 4* 2 0 2 0 17
Husky-type 2 1 2 2 0 2 2 1 2 1 15
Malamute 2 0 3 1 0 2 3 1 0 0 12
Doberman Pinscher 0 1 0 2 2 2 1 0 0 1 9
Chow Chow 0 1 0 0 0 2 3 0 2 0 8
Great Dane 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 7
Saint Bernard 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 7
Crossbred
Wolf-dog hybrid 0 1 1 2 1 4 1 2 2 0 14
Mixed-breed 0 3 1 2 1 2 0 1 1 1 12
German Shepherd Dog 0 2 0 2 2 2† 0 1 2 0 10†
Pit bull-type 0 1 0 3 2† 3 1 1 0 0 10†
Husky-type 0 1 1 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 6
Rottweiler 0 0 0 0 1† 1 0 1 1 2 5†
Alaskan Malamute 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 3
Chow Chow 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 3
Doberman Pinscher 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0
Saint Bernard 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1
Great Dane 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1† 0†
No. deaths for which 10 20 26* 24 22 34* 24 25 26* 27 238
breed was known
*Numbers differ from previous reports because police/guard dogs "at work" were excluded, and 1 new DBRF was identified as occurring in 1996. †A purebred dog
and a crossbred dog of this breed were involved in a single fatality; therefore, that breed is counted only once in the total column.
Table 1—Breeds of dogs involved in human dog bite-related fatalities (DBRF) in the United States, by 2-year period, between 1979 and
1998.
Now, I didn't see any Golden Retrievers on that list, despite it being a very popular breed. 8)
Didn't see too many Golden Retriever's on that list.
Question for body88: Did that list include all attacks, meaning did it include the attacks of the pitbulls and other kinds of bullterriers as well?
If not, it doesn't give a true picture of which dogs bites the most.
My opinion still stands, only breeds like Golden Retriever and such should be allowed. No need for other breeds, really.
Police and narcotics, or fire departments could have use for different breeds, but all in all, get rid of the most aggressive ones, the bastards.
-Hedge
There are alternative dog models.
A Golden Retriever is an excellent alternative, would fit perfect with all these tough guys raising "Pits".
-Hedge
I've seen agressive Golden Retrievers....damn thing would snarl & try to bite you
but it was due to a bad owner involving physical abuse.
Gee...I wonder if there was a connecion there?
Apparantly, Golden Retrievers aren't lethal.
Lets try to be creative. What can be done to make pitbulls as safe as golden retrievers and other breeds?
-Hedge
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Ok,
it would be real interesting to get flower's and knny's comments on these numbers:
Breed 1980 1982 1984 1986 1988 1990 1992 1994 1996 1998 Total
Purebred
Pit bull-type 2 5 10 9 11* 8 6 5 4* 6 66
Rottweiler 0 0 1 1 3 1 3 10 10 10 39
German Shepherd Dog 2 1 4* 1 1 4* 2 0 2 0 17
Husky-type 2 1 2 2 0 2 2 1 2 1 15
Malamute 2 0 3 1 0 2 3 1 0 0 12
Doberman Pinscher 0 1 0 2 2 2 1 0 0 1 9
Chow Chow 0 1 0 0 0 2 3 0 2 0 8
Great Dane 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 7
Saint Bernard 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 7
Crossbred
Wolf-dog hybrid 0 1 1 2 1 4 1 2 2 0 14
Mixed-breed 0 3 1 2 1 2 0 1 1 1 12
German Shepherd Dog 0 2 0 2 2 2† 0 1 2 0 10†
Pit bull-type 0 1 0 3 2† 3 1 1 0 0 10†
Husky-type 0 1 1 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 6
Rottweiler 0 0 0 0 1† 1 0 1 1 2 5†
Alaskan Malamute 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 3
Chow Chow 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 3
Doberman Pinscher 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0
Saint Bernard 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1
Great Dane 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1† 0†
No. deaths for which 10 20 26* 24 22 34* 24 25 26* 27 238
breed was known
*Numbers differ from previous reports because police/guard dogs "at work" were excluded, and 1 new DBRF was identified as occurring in 1996. †A purebred dog
and a crossbred dog of this breed were involved in a single fatality; therefore, that breed is counted only once in the total column.
Table 1—Breeds of dogs involved in human dog bite-related fatalities (DBRF) in the United States, by 2-year period, between 1979 and
1998.
Now, I didn't see any Golden Retrievers on that list, despite it being a very popular breed. 8)
Apparantly, Golden Retrievers aren't lethal.
Lets try to be creative. What can be done to make pitbulls as safe as golden retrievers and other breeds?
-Hedge
A pitbull type includes about 10 different breeds and also the muts. That is hardly accurate when talking about American pitbull terriors. Pitbull type's can include apbt's, bandogg's, American bull's ( all four types), dogos, presa's, staffys, bull terriors, boxers any type of pit to name a few.
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I think what he was getting at was that a pit should be respected and trained as such. Not necessarily saying it should be locked up, just have to respect the power and gameness of the breed.
The way I read his post he was insulating pitbulls should be treated as weapons and machines. While a pitbull should always be respected, it should not have to be treated like a weapon. You did not do a good job if that is the case. Then there was the referance to bone crushing fighting lines. Pretty much sums it all up. Gives pits a bad name.
I always wonder why 200 lb st Bernard's are not talked about when discussing the potential dangers of a breed. A intact, aggressive , 200 lb St Bernard is a potential dangerous animal. Breeds like that are never mentioned because they are cuddly and cute.
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Ok,
it would be real interesting to get flower's and knny's comments on these numbers:
I personally will not comment (ha surprise! ;D) because that is an area that I have not done any research into. I will just say that take those numbers with a grain of salt, a lot of dog bites don't get reported especially if the bite was not severe enough to warrant medical attention. Those charts were for fatalities correct? So you would expect not to see small or average breeds listed because they would probably not be fatal attacks unless it was a baby. Again, I have done practically zero research into this, so my opinions hold no weight.
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I always wonder why 200 lb st Bernard's are not talked about when discussing the potential dangers of a breed. A intact, aggressive , 200 lb St Bernard is a potential dangerous animal. Breeds like that are never mentioned because they are cuddly and cute.
Any dog can attack and bite someone, but some breeds are known for NOT doing that no matter the size.
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Any dog can attack and bite someone, but some breeds are known for NOT doing that no matter the size.
St Bernard's can be pretty aggressive if unsocialized. I came across a intact male who had spent his whole life in the owners back yard. The owner was never around so he was unsocialized. He had never really been worked with training wise at all. The dog was extremely aggressive / Territorial. Seeing as though he was about 200 lbs that posed a huge problem. Ended up that he had to be taken in by a breeder. I know what you are saying tho. I have never really hear about aggressive Danes.
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St Bernard's can be extremely aggressive if unsocialized. I know what you are saying tho. I have never really hear about aggressive Danes.
A good friend of mine has one... :-\
If he gets near another dog he will snap at it and I've seen it with my own eyes when he tryed to kill Roma on their first encounter outside!!!
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Lots of people in my neighborhood have the Little terriers and others and most of them are complete monsters!! The people never socialized them with anyone or other dogs and the things will snap and snarl. My dog Cody the Lab just looks at them like what the hell? He has been in packs of dogs since he was 3 months and knows how to approach another dog, as we walk past these little dogs are all teeth and barks! The owners are there like dumb asses thinking it is no big deal "thats just the way little fefe is" Not all are like this but the numbers are disproportionately high against them too.
This can be the inbred temperament of the breed. I have a Chihuahua who has been brought to work with me regularly since he was 8 weeks old. He still gets pissy with people even though he has met lots and lots of people. He is all snarl and no bite, but he can make himself look like the tazmanian devil if he wants too! He has been raised with 2 danes and a dane mix and while he has no fear of them (he will be submissive to them when he knows he has pushed it) he wants nothing to do with other dogs on our walks. When we see another dog he doesn't try and go running over to it or start barking at it like he's a tough guy.
I correct him at work when he gets territorial with people, it is not acceptable, but I do honestly believe it is "in him" to act that way. Knowing that I try and keep a careful eye on him and anybody around him. He is not the dog I would encourage people to pet on our walks or outings!
People shouldn't just laugh off that behavior, but I think to a degree it does come with the toy breeds and people should know that when they get one.
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A good friend of mine has one... :-\
If he gets near another dog he will snap at it and I've seen it with my own eyes when he tryed to kill Roma on their first encounter outside!!!
Really? Growing up as a kid my uncle owned a few. The people down the street from me have 3 of em. All the danes I have come across have always been pretty calm. Ob any breed can be aggressive. I never really hear about Danes tho. Until now!
Is is a male? Intact?
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St Bernard's can be pretty aggressive if unsocialized. I came across a intact male who had spent his whole life in the owners back yard. The owner was never around so he was unsocialized. He had never really been worked with training wise at all. The dog was extremely aggressive / Territorial. Seeing as though he was about 200 lbs thats posed a huge problem. Ended up that he had to be taken in by a breeder. I know what you are saying tho. I have never really hear about aggressive Danes.
Any dog can be aggressive. Great Danes have bit people and in one case I know about a group of 4 or 5 attacked and killed the kid who was watching them. He lived next door and the dogs had known him all their lives. The owners went on vacation and he was taking care of them. No one knows what sparked the attack. They had never been known to be aggressive in the past. My theory is that one dog started it, and the pack mentality kicked in and some or all of the other dogs joined in. Or maybe he was breaking up a tussling between two and it escalated.
Great Danes are on a few list of breeds people want banned just because of their size.
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Any dog can be aggressive. Great Danes have bit people and in one case I know about a group of 4 or 5 attacked and killed the kid who was watching them. He lived next door and the dogs had known him all their lives. The owners went on vacation and he was taking care of them. No one knows what sparked the attack. They had never been known to be aggressive in the past. My theory is that one dog started it, and the pack mentality kicked in and some or all of the other dogs joined in. Or maybe he was breaking up a tussling between two and it escalated.
Great Danes are on a few list of breeds people want banned just because of their size.
I kno. My point was a aggressive 200 lb st bernard can kill a man much easier then say a 50 lb pit. If people want to ban breeds on the potential danger they can pose to humans I wonder why dogs like the St's are never brought up.
That is a good theory as to why the Danes attacked that boy.
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A good friend of mine has one... :-\
If he gets near another dog he will snap at it and I've seen it with my own eyes when he tryed to kill Roma on their first encounter outside!!!
We did a bite investigation a few years back in Missouri on a group of great danes where three of them had gotten loose and essentially turned a smaller dog inside out. The smaller dog was leashed outside to a small doogloo type wooden doghouse. The danes started pulling on the dog, ripping the kennel of its foundation and dragging the smaller dog across the yard. When the doghouse wedged between two trees, the danes skinned the smaller dog----obviously it was dead by this point. It was a pretty gruesome attack.
I consider this type of attack, considering great danes were the breed (one was a mix, the other were registered) involved very, very unusual, but they can happen. I also have to wonder about the house those dogs came from.
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Any dog can be aggressive. Great Danes have bit people and in one case I know about a group of 4 or 5 attacked and killed the kid who was watching them. He lived next door and the dogs had known him all their lives. The owners went on vacation and he was taking care of them. No one knows what sparked the attack. They had never been known to be aggressive in the past. My theory is that one dog started it, and the pack mentality kicked in and some or all of the other dogs joined in. Or maybe he was breaking up a tussling between two and it escalated.
Great Danes are on a few list of breeds people want banned just because of their size.
The thing that needs to be considered is the drive of the animal----remember dogs have three basic drives: prey (to hunt and kill something because it runs from them), territory (to guard their turf) and reproductive (sex). Depending on the trigger, activation of any of these three drives can result in aggressive behavior. And like you said in your post, a pack mentality can lead to further aggression---typically via activation of prey drive.
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The smaller dog was leashed outside to a small doogloo type wooden doghouse.
Another reason I don't like chaining dogs up, it leaves them very defenseless! And they know it which is probably why chained dogs do get aggressive. They almost have to develop aggression to feel safe. :-\
Horrible story btw. :-\
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A pitbull type includes about 10 different breeds and also the muts. That is hardly accurate when talking about American pitbull terriors. Pitbull type's can include apbt's, bandogg's, American bull's ( all four types), dogos, presa's, staffys, bull terriors, boxers any type of pit to name a few.
Exactly. This group of statistics has been heavily criticized because of that fact. Too many people associate any dog with a big head as being a "pitbull" and there were no criteria established to positively determine the breed the dog was---for the most part it was based on someones opinion, not breed standards. I've had to euthanize laboradors (based on physcial characteristics meeting breed standards) at the humane society becuase someone decided they LOOKED like a pit or a pit mix.
A couple of good sites to look at to see this further are: http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html)
and http://members.aol.com/radogz/find.html (http://members.aol.com/radogz/find.html)
The other thing to consider is local ordinances based on dog bites. Some areas are mandatory reports for all bites, some are based on breeds (ie only certian breeds are mandatory reports), some are optional (they are only reported if there is "Severe" injury). This can also all skew the statistics---for or against a certian breed.
I had to do a bite report in Ohio on a great clients labs because they were roughhousing, fell into their toddler, the kid fell over and scratched his head on the coffee table. The head injury was a head injury, it bled alot, so the owners took the kid to the hospital, where the doctors filled out the paperwork required by law. The dogs did nothing even remotely close to biting the child, but based on city ordinance, the one lab has a bite report with his name on it.
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I volunteer with a city animal shelter and it's disgusting when you see what people put these animals through...yet they come back from the brink and still love to be around people---yet they get a bad rap from day one and are almost always the first dogs put down when incidents happen. I don't think shelters even realize that pits (whatever type) are best kept in single dog homes...we've had more incidents where two pits adopted out end up getting into it at an adopter's home--they are then returned and put down--needlessly...it's the ignorance that kills these animals.
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So that list is just dog attacks or bite's?
Why are only larger dogs listed? I guess it's because they imposed a greater injury?
Where's the data of injuries obtained?
It's a very biased list. If you put terriers or chi's on that list you'll see a greater amount of numbers. I would bet it would be doubled. If a Chi snaps at a child & cuts their cheek or face...wouldn't that be considered an serious injury?
When I was younger, my brother was running/playing with his Labrador & the dog grabbed his arm like "tag...your it" & opened up his upper inside of his arm requiring stitches.
Any dog can inflict pain or injury. It's not always the size of the dog.
If you want to talk 'deaths' caused by a dog.....provide that list
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My point was you calling them "little yappy pieces of crap" is like someone calling pits "man eating pieces of crap". Neither dog is a piece of crap. :P
Well....they would be eventually...if they were eaten by a bear.
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I had to do a bite report in Ohio on a great clients labs because they were roughhousing, fell into their toddler, the kid fell over and scratched his head on the coffee table. The head injury was a head injury, it bled alot, so the owners took the kid to the hospital, where the doctors filled out the paperwork required by law. The dogs did nothing even remotely close to biting the child, but based on city ordinance, the one lab has a bite report with his name on it.
That is bullshit, IMO. The dog didn't bite the child or even mean to knock the kid over.
If that was my dog I would of fought that being put on the dog. Or I would of said the kid fell down which is the truth.
When his brother accidentally knocks him over the city better file assault charges on the kid! ::)
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Well....they would be eventually...if they were eaten by a bear.
::)
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So that list is just dog attacks or bite's?
Why are only larger dogs listed? I guess it's because they imposed a greater injury?
Where's the data of injuries obtained?
It's a very biased list. If you put terriers or chi's on that list you'll see a greater amount of numbers. I would bet it would be doubled. If a Chi snaps at a child & cuts their cheek or face...wouldn't that be considered an serious injury?
When I was younger, my brother was running/playing with his Labrador & the dog grabbed his arm like "tag...your it" & opened up his upper inside of his arm requiring stitches.
Any dog can inflict pain or injury. It's not always the size of the dog.
If you want to talk 'deaths' caused by a dog.....provide that list
knny... that is the list of deaths caused by a dog.
You're asking why only larger dogs are listed. And claim the list is biased. How can it be biased if the dog breeds not listed haven't killed any humans?
My guess is that the listed dogs have kills. Could that be a reason maybe?
Why not take the time to read the report?
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf
-Hedge
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knny... that is the list of deaths caused by a dog.
You're asking why only larger dogs are listed. And claim the list is biased. How can it be biased if the dog breeds not listed haven't killed any humans?
My guess is that the listed dogs have kills. Could that be a reason maybe?
Why not take the time to read the report?
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf
-Hedge
Right , but you are using a list with flawed stats. A pitbull type is not a apbt. Those stats are not accurate if you are talking about apbt's. A pitbull type includes several different types of dogs and also mutts.
As vet and I where saying, a pitbull type can include any big headed muscular dog. Pitbull types include pitbulls, staffys, staffy mixes, bandoggs, all four types of American bulldogs (smaller standard American bulls are always mistaken for large pits), boxers, pitbull mutts, English staffys , dogos, smaller presa canarios and mixes off all the types listed.
If you can find me a list that outlines apbt's with accurate stats then it would be valid for this discussion. A pitbull type is not a apbt.
Basing the bite stats of many pure bred breed's against the stats of several breeds combined, and mutts is not even close to accurate.
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Right , but you are using a list with flawed stats. A pitbull type is not a apbt. Those stats are not accurate if you are talking about apbt's. A pitbull type includes several different types of dogs and also mutts.
As vet and I where saying, a pitbull type can include any big headed muscular dog. Pitbull types include pitbulls, staffys, staffy mixes, bandoggs, all four types of American bulldogs (smaller standard American bulls are always mistaken for large pits), boxers, pitbull mutts, English staffys , dogos, smaller presa canarios and mixes off all the types listed.
If you can find me a list that outlines apbt's with accurate stats then it would be valid for this discussion. A pitbull type is not a apbt.
Basing the bite stats of many pure bred breed's against the stats of several breeds combined, and mutts is not even close to accurate.
Ok.
I thought those were covered in the pit-bull mixed breed category. I may be wrong on that though.
It is interesting to read that 60% of the kills were attributed to rottweilers and pitbulls.
My point is basically this: There is so few kills attributed to golden retrievers, and pitbull and bull dog owners can argue all day long that the breeds aren't specified enough.
But why not try to discuss what can be done to make these kinds of dogs as safe as golden retrievers?
Why constantly try to dodge the issue, why not offer a solution?
Here's my point of view, not being a dog owner: If the owners of these kinds of breeds themselves would offer a solution, then the rest of the society wouldn't rage against these breeds.
It's about controlling the agenda, and right now, like it or not, the pitbull dog owners aren't in control.
Act, don't react.
-Hedge
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knny... that is the list of deaths caused by a dog.
You're asking why only larger dogs are listed. And claim the list is biased. How can it be biased if the dog breeds not listed haven't killed any humans?
My guess is that the listed dogs have kills. Could that be a reason maybe?
Why not take the time to read the report?
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf
-Hedge
Ok read it..but...some of the data is incomplete. Although they were trying to be "breed specific" it seems the opinion I gathered that it boils right down in the end as the responsibility/negligence of the owner as a main culprit.
It also seems if one breed is regulated or eliminated...an owner will substitute the breed to a unregulated breed with like characteristics & then the data may turn towards that specific breed. Mixed breeds will be almost impossible to regulate except for expensive DNA testing on every dog.
It a nutshell....I gathered from this....owners need to be more responsible & held accountable for their dogs...not the specific breed per se.
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Ok.
I thought those were covered in the pit-bull mixed breed category. I may be wrong on that though.
It is interesting to read that 60% of the kills were attributed to rottweilers and pitbulls.
My point is basically this: There is so few kills attributed to golden retrievers, and pitbull and bull dog owners can argue all day long that the breeds aren't specified enough.
But why not try to discuss what can be done to make these kinds of dogs as safe as golden retrievers?
Why constantly try to dodge the issue, why not offer a solution?
Here's my point of view, not being a dog owner: If the owners of these kinds of breeds themselves would offer a solution, then the rest of the society wouldn't rage against these breeds.
It's about controlling the agenda, and right now, like it or not, the pitbull dog owners aren't in control.
Act, don't react.
-Hedge
Hedge I am reffering to the list you posted that included the "pitbull type" category.
No one is dodging any issue. You are posting inaccurate stats that are not only unfair, they are incorrect. A pitbull "type" or "mix" is not a pitbull. If a lab / pit mix kills someone where is the outrage over the fact the dog was half lab? I don't see anyone whining about the other breeds that get lumped into the "pitbull" group. Where is the outrage over boxers? How would medical studies work if the docs used inaccurate stats?
Golden retrievers are embraced by middle America. Pitbulls have been embraced by criminals and dog fighters. Inner city thugs and punks. Before pits it was rots. How many pitbulls do you hear about attacking people that where brought up correctly in some suburb in middle America with love and direction? A crazy dog is a crazy dog. It is not a pitbull thing. Pitbulls are sensationalised by the media. I could show you HUNDREDS of attacks that never make the news. I posted the link before, do you remember? No one cares if Betty the cocker spaniel maims a kid, but if a pit does it watch out!!! I posted a sight with thousands of fatal dog attack parpetrated by breeds ranging from Goldie's to jack russel's. You never hear about any of that tho do you? People think a pitbull is born aggressive towards humans. Nothing could be farther from the truth. You might want to look at how pits are exploited by humans.
Even with all the scumbags and thugs who own pits now in days you still have a better chance of dying from a lighting strike then being killed by a pit.
Lastly by the logic many anti pit people have the entire black race should be banned. Since it is impossible for people / animals to be a product of environment or upbringing blacks must naturally be aggressive, murders and criminals. Ban em all, right hedge?
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A properly socialzed / trained pitbull is no diff then a properly socialized lab mentally.The difference is in the athletic ability and strength.
Should people who are bigger and stronger then others be penalized sicne they COULD harm you further then Joe schmoe. Me thinks most on this board would fall into this catogory.
Pitbulls are far more likley to be abused, fought, trained incorrectly or exploited then any goldie or lab.
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blacks shouldn't own pits?Why?every time a black person commites a crime they blame there actions on society(victim of society)I only sold drugs or beat that person or robbed that person because I live in the hood.My mom was a dope fiend and my dad was in prison when I was growing up.I wasn't raised good.I wasn't properly socialzed,hey wait a minute this sounds alot like bodys pitbull defense.the next time some black kid commets a crime instead of punishing him we'll just let him off since he probably just wasn't trained right or socialized as a kid.
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blacks shouldn't own pits?Why?every time a black person commites a crime they blame there actions on society(victim of society)I only sold drugs or beat that person or robbed that person because I live in the hood.My mom was a dope fiend and my dad was in prison when I was growing up.I wasn't raised good.I wasn't properly socialzed,hey wait a minute this sounds alot like bodys pitbull defense.the next time some black kid commets a crime instead of punishing him we'll just let him off since he probably just wasn't trained right or socialized as a kid.
Last time I checked animals did not have the ability to dichiper right from wrong. They need to be socialized and trained to act correctly. They are um ANIMALS. My argument was mearley a reference that was not meant to be taken in the sense you twisted it. It was a analogy to show that people are not BORN bad. Unless they are deranged , but that is rare. I bet a kid who grows up in a good home with good parents is just as likely to commit crimes as some kid who grows up in a shithole with no parents and surrounded by violence? It should not be an excuse, but it cannot be ignored. Good for you for overcoming the odds with the upbringing you had. To bad for every you there is a 1000 who don't make it.
Btw not giving a crap about your kid and allowing him or her to do whatever they want might make them more apt to commit crimes. You know since that whole teaching right from wrong thing and raising your kids is what makes them able to decipher how to act in society. You are a extreme minority. Humans need love and guidance as youths. Most would not make it given the circumstances you had.
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Ok.
I thought those were covered in the pit-bull mixed breed category. I may be wrong on that though.
It is interesting to read that 60% of the kills were attributed to rottweilers and pitbulls.
My point is basically this: There is so few kills attributed to golden retrievers, and pitbull and bull dog owners can argue all day long that the breeds aren't specified enough.
But why not try to discuss what can be done to make these kinds of dogs as safe as golden retrievers?
Why constantly try to dodge the issue, why not offer a solution?
Here's my point of view, not being a dog owner: If the owners of these kinds of breeds themselves would offer a solution, then the rest of the society wouldn't rage against these breeds.
It's about controlling the agenda, and right now, like it or not, the pitbull dog owners aren't in control.
Act, don't react.
-Hedge
Goood 1 person who's not letting emotion rule logic.
ANYONE who compares a Pitt Bull bite to a run-of-the-mill dog bite is in La La Land. esp a DMV. ::)
Like comparing a .22 cal wound to a .44 Magnum (sorry inner city Gun Fearers, we like guns out here in Farmland.)
Here's how the problem will go away, but its gonna take awhile because of Pitts deeply inbred TENNACIY (Hey Vet, redefine tenacity too here ::))
The breed IS being bred into nothing. It would be better off if Pitts had stayed in the hands of The guys who
fought and bred them in the 1940s - late 1970s when every idiot started bringing one to town.
Esp troubling now in big American cities. I'd suggest the guy talking about keeping guns locked keep one ready to use,
if its legal for him, He might have to quickly Kill his or another dog to save a kid.
Go REREAD Vets 3 "Triggers" for K9's. (OH Oh, did he inadvertently make a Dog/firearm compare?)
Don't forget they are animals. Fact is most K9s are ill trained.
There are SO many over The Top maulings in hospital and legal records by these animals that ignoring it is
embarrassing and irresponsible.
Don't be as stupid as the media by going 180 degrees from the facts.
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Last time I checked animals did not have the ability to dichiper right from wrong. They need to be socialized and trained to act correctly. They are um ANIMALS. My argument was mearley a reference was not meant to be taken in the sense you twisted it. It was a analogy to show that people are not BORN bad. I bet a kid who grows up in a good home with good parents is just as likley to commit crimes as some kid who grows up in a shithole with no parents and surrounded by violence? It should not be an excuse, but it cannot be ignored. Good for you for overcoming the odds with the upbringing you had. To bad for every you there is a 1000 who dont make it.
Btw not giving a crap about your kid and allowing him or her to do whatever they want might make them more apt to commit crimes. You know since that whole teaching right from wrong thing and raising your kids is what makes them able to decipher how to act in society. You are a extreme monority. Humans need love and guidence as youths. Most would not make it given the circumstances you had.
Do you have pitts?
Do you let them run free in your yard?
What kind of fencing do you have?
Live in a city? Or Out all alone in the sticks?
Got good insh to cover that dogs liability?
Insh Co. know you have him on your property?
Got much equity in your home or other assets?
We aint talking kids here. Thats the problem, Americans anthropomorphize their pets.
It's a ANIMAL ,with CENTURIES of selective breeding specifically for fighting in it.
Game ones are present day end line example of the best Dog Fighting K9 there is.
If you started all over breeding for a fighting dog - you'd end up with a pitt.
Make sure those animals cant get out if you know whats good for you.
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I own a 90 lb american bulldog. Here is a picture of him when he was 10 months old. I have owned 2 pits in the past. Both where from "fighting" lines. I find your posts quit antogonistic and I am starting to think you are a gimmick. No responsible pit owner would set out to scare people off from the breed.
I train my dogs correctly. I supervise them. They would never "get out" to roam.
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people can come up with all the bite stats they want. the bottom line is anyone who is knowledgeable about the breed and how those stats are put
together, knows that it is all bs. i would suggest that anyone who is really interested in the topic check out a book by karen delise, called fatal dog
attacks, the story behind the statistics. she is the foremost expert on this topic and has stated that in all her research of well over 400 cases of fatal
dog attacks there has never been a single documented case where a household, neutered, pitbull has ever caused a human fatality.
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I own a 90 lb american bulldog. Here is a picture of him when he was 10 months old. I have owned 2 pits in the past. Both where from "fighting" lines. I find your posts quit antogonistic and I am starting to think you are a gimmick. No responsible pit owner would set out to scare people off from the breed.
I train my dogs correctly. I supervise them. They would never "get out" to roam.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=138195.0;attach=156138;image)
No gimmic here Pal. BEAUTIFULL looking dog there, I'd hate you to loose him.
Im from farm country. Bet U I got more animal experience here than anyone but vet.
If you have pitts {SORRY, ANY DOG) long enough, you'll some day see them react suddenly to somthing like you never seen. They are animals. Ever been in a Bull Pen :o. Or Pig pen? Dude, animals got some suprise for you if you hang long w/ them. You may not like guns, but Im gona make another analogy. We ALLWAYS keep weapon pointed in safe direction. Shoot 10s of Thousands of Rounds and you'll see a MALFUNCTION! Right when you least expect!
I seen a lot of seroius injurys in a life time of Const work. Most were needless.
The dude I got my gold Pitt from's Wife had a obvious disfiguring bite mark on her otherwise pretty face.
They both had a lifetime of pitt experience, and I saw her handle dogs. She knew what she was dooing.
At the bitter end, I carried my 14 yr old Staffie outside to piss for weeks, and let him lay in the warm fall sunshine. He died when I was at work a couple days after thanksgiving.
Awesome good hearted animal, with a bite like a hydrolic ram-vise.. Better than any $50K securety system.
You need to REALLY respect these animals if you choose to own one.
They aint your average doggie. BSing that they are aint gonna fly with me.
Gimmic? ::) I'm as real as it gets. You making a lot of assumptions thet are way off target ;)
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Hedge I am reffering to the list you posted that included the "pitbull type" category.
No one is dodging any issue. You are posting inaccurate stats that are not only unfair, they are incorrect. A pitbull "type" or "mix" is not a pitbull. If a lab / pit mix kills someone where is the outrage over the fact the dog was half lab? I don't see anyone whining about the other breeds that get lumped into the "pitbull" group. Where is the outrage over boxers? How would medical studies work if the docs used inaccurate stats?
Golden retrievers are embraced by middle America. Pitbulls have been embraced by criminals and dog fighters. Inner city thugs and punks. Before pits it was rots. How many pitbulls do you hear about attacking people that where brought up correctly in some suburb in middle America with love and direction? A crazy dog is a crazy dog. It is not a pitbull thing. Pitbulls are sensationalised by the media. I could show you HUNDREDS of attacks that never make the news. I posted the link before, do you remember? No one cares if Betty the cocker spaniel maims a kid, but if a pit does it watch out!!! I posted a sight with thousands of fatal dog attack parpetrated by breeds ranging from Goldie's to jack russel's. You never hear about any of that tho do you? People think a pitbull is born aggressive towards humans. Nothing could be farther from the truth. You might want to look at how pits are exploited by humans.
Even with all the scumbags and thugs who own pits now in days you still have a better chance of dying from a lighting strike then being killed by a pit.
Lastly by the logic many anti pit people have the entire black race should be banned. Since it is impossible for people / animals to be a product of environment or upbringing blacks must naturally be aggressive, murders and criminals. Ban em all, right hedge?
Pit bull type is close enough to describe the type. It really does not matter that they are just a little different.
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Pit bull type is close enough to describe the type. It really does not matter that they are just a little different.
No its not. A pitbull type includes boxers? Totally different breeds? Mutts? A half pitbull half lab is a pitbull? You dont know much about dogs if you think that is ok to base a real study on.
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people can come up with all the bite stats they want. the bottom line is anyone who is knowledgeable about the breed and how those stats are put
together, knows that it is all bs. i would suggest that anyone who is really interested in the topic check out a book by karen delise, called fatal dog
attacks, the story behind the statistics. she is the foremost expert on this topic and has stated that in all her research of well over 400 cases of fatal
dog attacks there has never been a single documented case where a household, neutered, pitbull has ever caused a human fatality.
Do you let YOURS run free? Fence? Insh?
What kind of ASSets you got w/ equity?
Think about it.
Mauls my kid - It wont matter. Believe me, there plenty Guys here feel the same.
Your dog, My Kid. No contest end result when its all said and done.
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No its not. A pitbull type includes boxers? Totally different breeds? Mutts? A half pitbull half lab is a pitbull? You dont know much about dogs if you think that is ok to base a real study on.
Does not include boxers. Please the stats dont lie and I said from the begining the # of maulings from these and a couple other breeds is highly disproportianate to the population of the breed. This will not go away and is the most telling fact of them all. So try and change the facts as much as you want but when 2 breeds that make up a total of 6-7% of the dog population are responsible for 60% of the deaths caused by all dogs, something is very wrong.
Now please stop with the semantics.
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I own a 90 lb american bulldog. Here is a picture of him when he was 10 months old. I have owned 2 pits in the past. Both where from "fighting" lines. I find your posts quit antogonistic and I am starting to think you are a gimmick. No responsible pit owner would set out to scare people off from the breed.
I train my dogs correctly. I supervise them. They would never "get out" to roam.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=138195.0;attach=156138;image)
Body...trab gots himself all kinds of smarts about them there pitbulls.Aint no city slicker gona know more about critters than him...no matter how much of that there fancy book learnin' he gots.
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Body...trab gots himself all kinds of smarts about them there pitbulls.Aint no city slicker gona know more about critters than him...no matter how much of that there fancy book learnin' he gots.
Your Assumptions about me are way off. I AM a born country boy who's LIVED AND WORKED in... LA, SLC,Indy,
ChiTown,Rockford,GreenBay and Bangkok. Ive traveled most all of the USA and Europe too.
Insults and emotions don't change jaw strength or all those Hospital mauling reports.
I don't need to be emotional here.
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Do you let YOURS run free? Fence? Insh?
What kind of ASSets you got w/ equity?
Think about it.
Mauls my kid - It wont matter. Believe me, there plenty Guys here feel the same.
Your dog, My Kid. No contest end result when its all said and done.
do i let my pit run free? there is a leash law so i obey that when i walk her. i live in a urban area.
do i let her run free outside around the apt? yes, she runs around and plays off leash in back of my apt complex. she runs around and plays with all the kids who play out there. alot of times they ring my doorbell and ask me if she can come out.
am i worried she is gonna bite one of the kids or someone else? absoulutely not.
do i let her run free around other dogs? yes, she goes to a dog park. this is not something all pitbulls can do but i keep my eye on her because if she was ever attacked by another dog im aware something could happen. but never had any problems.
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do i let my pit run free? there is a leash law so i obey that when i walk her. i live in a urban area.
do i let her run free outside around the apt? yes, she runs around and plays off leash in back of my apt complex. she runs around and plays with all the kids who play out there. alot of times they ring my doorbell and ask me if she can come out.
am i worried she is gonna bite one of the kids or someone else? absoulutely not.
do i let her run free around other dogs? yes, she goes to a dog park. this is not something all pitbulls can do but i keep my eye on her because if she was ever attacked by another dog im aware something could happen. but never had any problems.
I know what your sayin, most love people.
But,It only takes once. All dogs are strange. Animal behavior is not human behavior. People forget that.
Like I said and Vet alluded to, K9s have some triggers that NO person fully understands.
You throw the right conditions together and BAM! Too late. This aint a Peek-a-Poo Bite man. Dont kid me or yourself.
People been ripped to hell by their own Pitts because they didnt recognize them when they came home.
Once one hits and blood flys, its too late. Have you ever seen 2 of them get into it w/ each other? Good God, its awefull!
How you want 2 on you? Or take some kid down to ground?
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Does not include boxers. Please the stats dont lie and I said from the begining the # of maulings from these and a couple other breeds is highly disproportianate to the population of the breed. This will not go away and is the most telling fact of them all. So try and change the facts as much as you want but when 2 breeds that make up a total of 6-7% of the dog population are responsible for 60% of the deaths caused by all dogs, something is very wrong.
Now please stop with the semantics.
Yes it does include boxers. If a person is attacked by a brindle boxer and they know jack shit about dogs they often report it as a pitbull. " the tiger looking dog, muscular with big teeth. That = pitbull to person who does not know breeds. My dog is mistaken for a very large pitbull over and over. I do not own a pitbull currently. I own a brindle and white American Bulldog. It is NOT the same thing. That is not semantics that is a fact. Please look up the breed characteristics for proof.
Btw the way the study you are talking about is flawed. You obv have done no more research then look at the chart and form an opinion. If you had you would have found out this study was found to be flawed long ago.
A dogo is not a apbt. A Presa Canario is not a apbt. A americn bulldog is not a apbt. Lets make a bet. I will post six dogs and you tell me which ones are pitbulls, ok?
Go ahead and ban pitbulls and rottys. Then ban the next breed that people exploit. Pretty soon we can all own a lab or a nice Goldie. Then we can own nothing. I know that is what America is all about.
You should stop with blowing pitbull deaths out of proportion. You have more chance to be killed by a shark or hit by lightning then killed by a pit/ rot.
Do you use steriods when you compete?
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Pit bull type is close enough to describe the type. It really does not matter that they are just a little different.
Bullshit. It matters a great deal. When my boxer was alive, I also had an AmStaff and an APBT. If I was out walking the three dogs or training them in my front yard people would ask over and over an over about the "Brown pit" I had (the other dogs were brindle male and dark brown/chocolate female)---that dog had been a rescue, someone had stabbed him repeatedly and caused him to have second and third degree burns on his chest so he had a couple of reasonably big scars that people would ask about--ask me if he got them pit fighting more often than not---again implying that he was some type of "pitbull". The two "Pitts" could be sitting there right next to him and people seemed to be unable to tell the difference between the three breeds.
Last night the neighbors asked me about the new Dogo rescue I took in---if the "giant white pitbull" was nice or not and how he was getting along with my other dogs. They couldn't tell the difference between a Dogo and an APBT, even though the Dogo is a dog that outweighs any semblance of breed standard for a pitbull by over 35 lbs and is 10 inches taller. My experiences with that boxer, what happened last night, and with workign at the humane society have led me to believe that the average person has so many false misconceptions about the APBT breed specifically its amazing. These misconceptions are skewed by the media, by the internet, and by word of mouth. That is a very, very, very significant point in breed related statistics. The breeds have to be identified correctly or every bit of the study is skewed by the misidentification of the individual who doesn't know the dog.
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A properly socialzed / trained pitbull is no diff then a properly socialized lab mentally.The difference is in the athletic ability and strength.
Should people who are bigger and stronger then others be penalized sicne they COULD harm you further then Joe schmoe. Me thinks most on this board would fall into this catogory.
Pitbulls are far more likley to be abused, fought, trained incorrectly or exploited then any goldie or lab.
I agree
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I agree
Once again. Dogs are animals not people. Quit anthropomorphizing them and stick to the issue.
Pit bites are far beyond the normal dog and they are in a disproportionate # & % of serious maulings.
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A properly socialzed / trained pitbull is no diff then a properly socialized lab mentally.The difference is in the athletic ability and strength.
Should people who are bigger and stronger then others be penalized sicne they COULD harm you further then Joe schmoe. Me thinks most on this board would fall into this catogory.
Pitbulls are far more likley to be abused, fought, trained incorrectly or exploited then any goldie or lab.
How could we prevent dogs from being abused?
Because I guess that is what is actually happening, when they turn into aggressive individuals.
Lets just accept the fact that people wants to have pitbulls, am staf, dogos, and other muscular dogs.
That's the way it is.
And the dogs that have good owners, like body88's, and others, aren't the problem obviously.
It's the BYB's, the thug dogs, the gang dogs, et al.
What could be done to help the dogs?
IMO, dog owners needs to organize and fight, not against misconceptions about "pitbulls".
But rather against the bad seeds among the dog owners.
Those are hurting legit dog owners 1000 times more than any legislator in Sacramento ever could do.
-Hedge
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Once again. Dogs are animals not people. Quit anthropomorphizing them and stick to the issue.
Pit bites are far beyond the normal dog and they are in a disproportionate # & % of serious maulings.
You just got done saying how Vet knows everything & knows more about K9's than anybody here on Getbig
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Pit bites are far beyond the normal dog and they are in a disproportionate # & % of serious maulings.
as i posted earlier the nations leading expert on this subject had said that there has never been ONE documented case where a household, neutered, pitbull terrier has been responsible for a human fatality.
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Do you have pitts?
Do you let them run free in your yard?
What kind of fencing do you have?
Live in a city? Or Out all alone in the sticks?
Got good insh to cover that dogs liability?
Insh Co. know you have him on your property?
Got much equity in your home or other assets?
We aint talking kids here. Thats the problem, Americans anthropomorphize their pets.
It's a ANIMAL ,with CENTURIES of selective breeding specifically for fighting in it.
Game ones are present day end line example of the best Dog Fighting K9 there is.
If you started all over breeding for a fighting dog - you'd end up with a pitt.
Make sure those animals cant get out if you know whats good for you.
Ok, you know, in a weird way, I have to agree with much of what you say---because its basically responsible pet ownership: don't let your pets run free, train them, have adequate fencing around your yard and so on.
I do not agree with your idea of pits having some unnaturally strong biting ability compared to other large dog breeds. They are a large powerful dog. No one is denying this. The thing is they will bite like a large powerful dog---one that is without a doubt capable fo hurting a human being, but not in some supernatural way. I've tried to present this from different angles to get you to understand they do not have any scientifically proven unique ability to bite harder than any other large breed of dog---from the standpoint of the one study done on pits biting (which I'll freely admit I think is flawed, but its the only study) to the standpoint of physiology/anatomy of their teeth as the limiting factor in a bite, to general attitude of a well socialized and trained dog. You still are holding onto the idea that they have some unnaturally strong biting ability. I'm not sure why, but I'm going to say it again, with the scientific evidence available, they don't when compared to other large breed dogs.
You also mention years of breeding as a justification for your thoughts on their supermouths. The thing is you really, really need to get away from the pitfighting part of that breeds history---which I'll agree with you is a very important part of creating the dogs we know today, but is not the only point--to fully understand the breed. Pit fighting was not the only activity these dogs were used for---they were used as a working, hunting, guardian breed and have been since the devlopment of the breed. On the frontier, pit bulls were an "all-purpose" dog. They herded cattle and sheep. They served as faithful family guardians, protecting families and livestock from the ever-present threat of thieves and wild animals. They served as companions. You absolutely have to aknowledge this if you are going to discuss the history of the breed.
You also mention the unwillingness to quit---I don't know if you have thought about it, but that is a trait of all hunting terriers, be it an APBT or an Airedale (a breed which was used by the German army to deliver messages in WWI because it would continue to attempt to deliver the message even after having limbs blown off by mortar rounds) or a rat terrier. When my parents bred black and tans and redbones for raccoon hunting, our pack leader was an Airedale for almost 11 years---because he wouldn't quit the hunt and he'd keep the pack going after the hounds were on the verge of giving up. Tenaciousness is a terrier trait, its not something specific to pitbulls, but is something shared by all terriers.
Finally the thing you need to consider is that pitbulls were not the only dog breed fought---what about Boston Terriers, "Wolf dogs" (including German Shepards and Malamutes), black and tan and blood hounds, and all of the others? Are they as bad of a "loaded gun"?
The bottom line is APBT's are large, powerful dogs. They are capable of damaging bites, just like any other large powerful dog breed. They should be owned by responsible pet owners, which includes people who take the time to train the dog for basic commands, leash walking, monitor the location of the dog--be it inside or outside--and above all don't allow their large dog to get into a situation where negative things could happen.
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How could we prevent dogs from being abused?
Because I guess that is what is actually happening, when they turn into aggressive individuals.
Lets just accept the fact that people wants to have pitbulls, am staf, dogos, and other muscular dogs.
That's the way it is.
And the dogs that have good owners, like body88's, and others, aren't the problem obviously.
It's the BYB's, the thug dogs, the gang dogs, et al.
What could be done to help the dogs?
IMO, dog owners needs to organize and fight, not against misconceptions about "pitbulls".
But rather against the bad seeds among the dog owners.
Those are hurting legit dog owners 1000 times more than any legislator in Sacramento ever could do.
-Hedge
Its not only that, I wish it were. It would still be hard or impossible to solve.
The problem is they are animals, with their own hardwired makeup. Certian combinations of things will trigger them to REACT. When a pit reacts it's a lot different than a Lab, no matter what anyone here wants to lead us to believe. I see a couple guys here that are a disaster waitng to happen. I'd love to see how their dogs are fenced, and how often left totaly unatended. Its just a matter of time till that dog feels his teritory is threatend in ways we dont comprehend.
If manditory dog insh were implemented, pitt breeds would pay a heavy premium.
Maybe thats the way it SHOULD be. A tiny dog is not near the liability of a Pitt, Staff, Rottie etc.
Want to play, pay.
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You just got done saying how Vet knows everything & knows more about K9's than anybody here on Getbig
Excuse me? Either YOU have Reading comprehension Problems or I miss typed.
Please quote.
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Pit bites are far beyond the normal dog .
Please stop stating this as a fact. It is an opinion. If you can put up legitimate scientific references to this fact, I will change what I am saying. Until then, I am sticking with what I have been posting---they are a large breed dog. That is it, nothing more, nothing less.
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How could we prevent dogs from being abused?
Because I guess that is what is actually happening, when they turn into aggressive individuals.
Lets just accept the fact that people wants to have pitbulls, am staf, dogos, and other muscular dogs.
That's the way it is.
And the dogs that have good owners, like body88's, and others, aren't the problem obviously.
It's the BYB's, the thug dogs, the gang dogs, et al.
What could be done to help the dogs?
IMO, dog owners needs to organize and fight, not against misconceptions about "pitbulls".
But rather against the bad seeds among the dog owners.
Those are hurting legit dog owners 1000 times more than any legislator in Sacramento ever could do.
-Hedge
Hedge, I agree with you. This is a very good post that this thread is really epitomizing. People have their ideas about pitbulls and they will fight like a "Pitbull" ;) to prove that their opinions and ideas are correct, even in the face of proof that they may be wrong
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Please stop stating this as a fact. It is an opinion. If you can put up legitimate scientific references to this fact, I will change what I am saying. Until then, I am sticking with what I have been posting---they are a large breed dog. That is it, nothing more, nothing less.
EVERYONE has seen film of Pitts hang and shake. As well as rip the hell out of people and kids way worse then
any average dog other than danes, rottie etc can.
Sorry but PPL have eyes and brains.
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The problem is they are animals, with their own hardwired makeup. Certian combinations of things will trigger them to REACT. When a pit reacts it's a lot different than a Lab, no matter what anyone here wants to lead us to believe. I see a couple guys here that are a disaster waitng to happen. I'd love to see how their dogs are fenced, and how often left totaly unatended. Its just a matter of time till that dog feels his teritory is threatend in ways we dont comprehend.
pits are the most exploited breeds of dog in existence. still, it is a testament to the quality of the breed that even though many are unsocialized, tortured, and otherwise ill-used, very few are human-aggressive. i'm sure anyone here who has ever worked in a shelter or pit rescue can back up the fact that even after suffering through the worst abuse imaginable they are still incredibly loving and friendly towards people. how many other breeds do you think that could be said about?
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and what do you make of this fact...........
Temperament Test Results
The American Temperament Test Society conducts tests every year on thousands of dogs to determine the soundness of their temperament. The American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier routinely and consistently rank in the average range, and well above many "popular" breeds such as the beagle, collie, doberman pinscher, cocker spaniel and great dane. (Source: American Temperament Test Society)
Alfons Estelt of the American Temperament Test Society, Inc., stated the following with respect to pit bulls: "The American Pit Bull Terriers participating in our temperament evaluation have thus far shown a passing rate of 95%. The other 121 breeds of dogs in our tests showed the average passing rate of 77%"
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Most anti pit people have never even spent time around a pit ::)
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and what do you make of this fact...........
Temperament Test Results
The American Temperament Test Society conducts tests every year on thousands of dogs to determine the soundness of their temperament. The American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier routinely and consistently rank in the average range, and well above many "popular" breeds such as the beagle, collie, doberman pinscher, cocker spaniel and great dane. (Source: American Temperament Test Society)
Alfons Estelt of the American Temperament Test Society, Inc., stated the following with respect to pit bulls: "The American Pit Bull Terriers participating in our temperament evaluation have thus far shown a passing rate of 95%. The other 121 breeds of dogs in our tests showed the average passing rate of 77%"
Exactly..... They forget to mention FACTS like this.
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Most anti pit people have never even spent time around a pit ::)
Howz 20 yrs grab you Pal?
I aint necessary "anti-Pitt". I want them where they cant: Jump,dig,CHEW, or Squirt out a fence.
ANd I'll tell you, w/ a Pitt, THAT is a tough and EXPENSIVE order to fill.
Somebodys dog mauls plenty any of many the Guys here on GB Kids - The Briefcase bandits anit gona be the fixers!
Think about that and make sure them dogs cant get out. Thats the law, for now.
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I aint necessary "anti-Pitt". I want them where they cant: Jump,dig,CHEW, or Squirt out a fence.
ANd I'll tell you, w/ a Pitt, THAT is a tough and EXPENSIVE order to fill.
Somebodys dog mauls plenty any of many the Guys here on GB Kids - The Briefcase bandits anit gona be the fixers!
Think about that and make sure them dogs cant get out. Thats the law, for now.
well trab if you are really that concerned that your pit might get free and attack some one than i would say that there is either a problem with...
a. the pitbull you have or...
b. you and the way you raise and treat your pitbull.
judging from your posts i would say the answer to that is pretty clear.
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well trab if you are really that concerned that your pit might get free and attack some one than i would say that there is either a problem with...
a. the pitbull you have or...
b. you and the way you raise and treat your pitbull.
judging from your posts i would say the answer to that is pretty clear.
Hey, judging buy the way you read, you need reading classes or glasses.
I have not owned one for a long time, young guy.
But I do have 20 yrs in w/ them, and 20+ more on top of that w/ a dozen other K9s.
YOU strike me as the kind w/ a Pitt in the city in a flimsy fence running free.
Just wait. I never seen a fence hold one except the special ones at the vet or pound.
You got no idea what you got is the real Fact Jack. Control your animal.
Legal history lesson here young guy: If the lion gets away, the owner must pay.
THATS real shit bro.
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I met a retired mailman of 30+ years the other day, he saw my 2 pits and said he had never been bitten by a pit. He had been bitten by every ankle biter known to man, had been bitten by several german shepards, akitas, one rottie, and his worst ever experience was when he was attacked by a doberman, almost lost his arm and had to have extensive surgery on it. Said the worst part was the dobie chewing on his head :-X
Funny he had no problems playing with my dogs and was completely impressed with how well they behaved/listened to commands. ;)
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Hey, judging buy the way you read, you need reading classes or glasses.
I have not owned one for a long time, young guy.
But I do have 20 yrs in w/ them, and 20+ more on top of that w/ a dozen other K9s.
YOU strike me as the kind w/ a Pitt in the city in a flimsy fence running free.
Just wait. I never seen a fence hold one except the special ones at the vet or pound.
You got no idea what you got is the real Fact Jack. Control your animal.
Legal history lesson here young guy: If the lion gets away, the owner must pay.
THATS real shit bro.
Had me going for a min there. Now I know you are a gimmick.
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I met a retired mailman of 30+ years the other day, he saw my 2 pits and said he had never been bitten by a pit. He had been bitten by every ankle biter known to man, had been bitten by several german shepards, akitas, one rottie, and his worst ever experience was when he was attacked by a doberman, almost lost his arm and had to have extensive surgery on it. Said the worst part was the dobie chewing on his head :-X
Funny he had no problems playing with my dogs and was completely impressed with how well they behaved/listened to commands. ;)
I know, they are lover boys 99% of the time. But have you ever seen them go off :o.
How many years you owned them? Keep pitts long enough and it WILL happen.
EVERYONE I ever know w/ pits (lots) has.
My major beef is those flimsy ass fences. That dont cut it. Another dog, cat, or what not, and they are out.
If I lived in a major city I'd be seriously looking into a CCW permit JUST for that. I'll be damned if I cant walk my dog down the sidewalk because every bozo has a pitt behind some glorified worn out chicken wire (at best).
ANY aggressive big dog running free on my property will get popped pronto.
Ive seen free running dogs menace kids at the bus stop in SLC.
That don't fly out where I live.
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Its not only that, I wish it were. It would still be hard or impossible to solve.
The problem is they are animals, with their own hardwired makeup. Certian combinations of things will trigger them to REACT. When a pit reacts it's a lot different than a Lab, no matter what anyone here wants to lead us to believe. I see a couple guys here that are a disaster waitng to happen. I'd love to see how their dogs are fenced, and how often left totaly unatended. Its just a matter of time till that dog feels his teritory is threatend in ways we dont comprehend.
If manditory dog insh were implemented, pitt breeds would pay a heavy premium.
Maybe thats the way it SHOULD be. A tiny dog is not near the liability of a Pitt, Staff, Rottie etc.
Want to play, pay.
Regardless of what we think of "pitbulls", a mandatory insurance would be a good thing.
Wouldn't that assure that dogs were given proper care?
I know that dog insurances are mandatory here in Sweden.
-Hedge
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He's talking a person having insurance in case their dog bites someone, you sound like you are talking health insurance for the dog?
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Had me going for a min there. Now I know you are a gimmick.
Whats gimmic about that? Thats straight out of Olde Englishe Common Law.
YOU should pay particular attn to it.
If your lion escaped, you were responsible. Same w/ any dangerous animal, instrument, or even chemical in todays interpretation of The Law.
Thats law Pal. You gonna learn the HARD WAY.
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I know, they are lover boys 99% of the time. But have you ever seen them go off :o.
How many years you owned them? Keep pitts long enough and it WILL happen.
EVERYONE I ever know w/ pits (lots) has.
My major beef is those flimsy ass fences. That dont cut it. Another dog, cat, or what not, and they are out.
If I lived in a major city I'd be seriously looking into a CCW permit JUST for that. I'll be damned if I cant walk my dog down the sidewalk because every bozo has a pitt behind some glorified worn out chicken wire (at best).
ANY aggressive big dog running free on my property will get popped pronto.
Ive seen free running dogs menace kids at the bus stop in SLC.
That don't fly out where I live.
I've owned my pits for nine years, since they were 8 weeks. I've been around pits 12+ years and yes I've seen them go off, and the situation was stopped almost immediately.
Once again the problem is the people, not the dog.
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Yeah, precisely.
Dunno if that's mandatory in USA?
Perhaps it would raise the status of the dogs.
I can only relate to dogs vs other pets here in Sweden, where dogs have it better on all levels.
Although, it seems like most pets fare pretty well here?
But the least restricted pets, eg guinea pigs, rats et al, are also those who generally seem to be mistreated most.
So my guess is that a mandatory health insurance, and mandatory registration, would benefit the dogs tremendously.
JMO.
-Hedge
Yur Right, but the USA is SO big. Totaly different scale.
I think mandatory liability Insh will get forced some day. Its costing the Insh Cos & Govt too much to not.
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Yur Right, but the USA is SO big. Totaly different scale.
I think mandatory liability Insh will get forced some day. Its costing the Insh Cos & Govt too much to not.
It seems...most of the time here in the US that pet owners are beind sued if their dog bites someone.
How is this costing the gov?
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It seems...most of the time here in the US that pet owners are beind sued if their dog bites someone.
How is this costing the gov?
True, homeowners insurance, which some insurance companies will not insure your home if you have certain breeds.
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Exactly..... They forget to mention FACTS like this.
This temperment report seems to shoot some pretty big holes in some arguments made about pitbulls.
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and what do you make of this fact...........
Temperament Test Results
The American Temperament Test Society conducts tests every year on thousands of dogs to determine the soundness of their temperament. The American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier routinely and consistently rank in the average range, and well above many "popular" breeds such as the beagle, collie, doberman pinscher, cocker spaniel and great dane. (Source: American Temperament Test Society)
Alfons Estelt of the American Temperament Test Society, Inc., stated the following with respect to pit bulls: "The American Pit Bull Terriers participating in our temperament evaluation have thus far shown a passing rate of 95%. The other 121 breeds of dogs in our tests showed the average passing rate of 77%"
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This temperment report seems to shoot some pretty big holes in some arguments made about pitbulls.
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and what do you make of this fact...........
Temperament Test Results
The American Temperament Test Society conducts tests every year on thousands of dogs to determine the soundness of their temperament. The American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier routinely and consistently rank in the average range, and well above many "popular" breeds such as the beagle, collie, doberman pinscher, cocker spaniel and great dane. (Source: American Temperament Test Society)
Alfons Estelt of the American Temperament Test Society, Inc., stated the following with respect to pit bulls: "The American Pit Bull Terriers participating in our temperament evaluation have thus far shown a passing rate of 95%. The other 121 breeds of dogs in our tests showed the average passing rate of 77%"
You are not worth reading.
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It seems...most of the time here in the US that pet owners are beind sued if their dog bites someone.
How is this costing the gov?
Wow! Ok, I'll spell it out. All the no-pot-to-pee in roadtrash Dog Owners w/ nothing to get when you sue them.
Who ya think picks up the tab when nobody can pay the hospital bill? Your Uncle Sam, thats YOUR money!
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damn ankle biters
;D
No, ring finger biter. There was blood everywhere. ???
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If people can't afford health insurance for themselves, how can they get it for their pets?
You can't FORCE someone to BUY health insurance for themselves or their pets. I personally would not want to pay for insurance when a lot of the services that would probably be covered under insurance (vaccinations, poisons, etc) I would not use, so why should I have to pay monthly fees?
They can, and I suspect will someday, pass a law requiring liability insh. Thats all it'd take.
Your homeowners excludes most dogs these days. They came out and checkd my dogs once for the H insh.
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It's Friday! Plz lighten up! Here are some pics, I am a proud Mom/AB owner & yes I am a dork too. :)
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Yes it does include boxers. If a person is attacked by a brindle boxer and they know jack shit about dogs they often report it as a pitbull. " the tiger looking dog, muscular with big teeth. That = pitbull to person who does not know breeds. My dog is mistaken for a very large pitbull over and over. I do not own a pitbull currently. I own a brindle and white American Bulldog. It is NOT the same thing. That is not semantics that is a fact. Please look up the breed characteristics for proof.
Btw the way the study you are talking about is flawed. You obv have done no more research then look at the chart and form an opinion. If you had you would have found out this study was found to be flawed long ago.
A dogo is not a apbt. A Presa Canario is not a apbt. A americn bulldog is not a apbt. Lets make a bet. I will post six dogs and you tell me which ones are pitbulls, ok?
Go ahead and ban pitbulls and rottys. Then ban the next breed that people exploit. Pretty soon we can all own a lab or a nice Goldie. Then we can own nothing. I know that is what America is all about.
You should stop with blowing pitbull deaths out of proportion. You have more chance to be killed by a shark or hit by lightning then killed by a pit/ rot.
Do you use steriods when you compete?
First of all what do steroids have to do with any of this?
Second if you read my posts I was the very first one here to say that not all these types of dogs are bad. The ones that are properly raised, sumbissive, well socialized, and kept are not a problem. I have been around some that are fine. I also said ANY dog can be a problem if not properly taken care of.
And lastly how many purebreed pitbulls do you even think are out there? So I will say again "pitbull type" is a fine example of the group. What do you guys say "well it only LOOKS just like a pitbull"?
You and vet have still not answered the real question which you continue to avoid and that is why the hugely disproportionate # of attacks and killings by these breeds?
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You and vet have still not answered the real question which you continue to avoid and that is why the hugely disproportionate # of attacks and killings by these breeds?
I'm not up to speed on this thread, but it's usually the same old argument so here's my take on this particular post........
the # of "attacks" isn't disporportionate, it's only disproportionately reported, and like body88 was trying to infer, many others breeds are lumped in as pitbulls. What if all retrievers and labs and hounds were lumped together as hunting dogs, would the # of hunting dog "attacks" go up? of course they would, you would be lumping several breeds together, just like they do with "pitbulls"
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I'm not up to speed on this thread, but it's usually the same old argument so here's my take on this particular post........
the # of "attacks" isn't disporportionate, it's only disproportionately reported, and like body88 was trying to infer, many others breeds are lumped in as pitbulls. What if all retrievers and labs and hounds were lumped together as hunting dogs, would the # of hunting dog "attacks" go up? of course they would, you would be lumping several breeds together, just like they do with "pitbulls"
Do you really thinks deaths by dogs are not reported and tracked? Thats what the study was about: Deaths caused by dogs by breed.
Yeah your right the deaths caused by shitzu's was left out, to make pits and rots look bad ::)
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Do you really thinks deaths by dogs are not reported and tracked? Thats what the study was about: Deaths caused by dogs by breed.
Yeah your right the deaths caused by shitzu's was left out ::)
Total denial.
Ask OL for his Pitt story.
Pitty about her face, :'( her own dogs she raised from pups, never showed a bit a agression before. ???
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The bottom line is APBT's are large, powerful dogs. They are capable of damaging bites, just like any other large powerful dog breed. They should be owned by responsible pet owners, which includes people who take the time to train the dog for basic commands, leash walking, monitor the location of the dog--be it inside or outside--and above all don't allow their large dog to get into a situation where negative things could happen.
Well gosh thank God we know someone will always have control of the dog for its whole life, and that it will never get out.
Whos monitering them again.....a wide range of humans? Well we can rest assured with that.
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Fortunately the Dog has more sense than a lot of the owners, its a wonder theres not a killing a day.
Just wait till theres the RIGHT event.
Sumfin that'll make mr. Benoit look tame.
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Well gosh thank God we know someone will always have control of the dog for its whole life, and that it will never get out.
Whos monitering them again.....a wide range of humans? Well we can rest assured with that.
same people that are monitoring the illegal aliens crossing our borders, you know the same ones who are monitoring the gang bangers buying illegal weapons and drugs from the trunk of a car in broad daylight.
geez....some people ::)
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I'm not up to speed on this thread, but it's usually the same old argument so here's my take on this particular post........
well i can bring you up to speed. that question has been answered over, over and over agian on this thread. various posters have given reasons why those stats are not accurate. i have posted information from the countries leading authority on this topic who has given reason why those stats are not accurate. as well as her studies of over 400 cases of fatal dog attacks and not finding ONE documented case of a household pitbull ever being the cause of a fatality.
certain people are goin to have their opinions of pitbulls and nothing is goin to change their mind. it doesnt really matter what the facts are.
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well i can bring you up to speed. that question has been answered over, over and over agian on this thread. various posters have given reasons why those stats are not accurate. i have posted information from the countries leading authority on this topic who has given reason why those stats are not accurate. as well as her studies of over 400 cases of fatal dog attacks and not finding ONE documented case of a household pitbull ever being the cause of a fatality.
certain people are goin to have their opinions of pitbulls and nothing is goin to change their mind. it doesnt really matter what the facts are.
thanks for the update, yes some people hAVe their opinions and thats fine, whatever. And I have mine, and my pits and it will be a long day for anyone trying to take them :-*
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all I gotta say is I have three small children,and If by chance some pit did maul one of them and some guys like you came up to me later trying to tell me it wasn't the dogs fault.I'd be the one doin the mauling.
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all I gotta say is I have three small children,and If by chance some pit did maul one of them and some guys like you came up to me later trying to tell me it wasn't the dogs fault.I'd be the one doin the mauling.
Right on! I bet you wouldnt much care what happend to you either, I wouldnt.
My Kid is worth more to me than EVERY K9 on the planet. Thats the way most parrents feel.
Lots of Americans CANT form relations w/ humans, so they treat dogs like them.
They are animals that react, not people w/ complex reasoning powers.
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First of all what do steroids have to do with any of this?
Second if you read my posts I was the very first one here to say that not all these types of dogs are bad. The ones that are properly raised, submissive, well socialized, and kept are not a problem. I have been around some that are fine. I also said ANY dog can be a problem if not properly taken care of.
And lastly how many purebreed pitbulls do you even think are out there? So I will say again "pitbull type" is a fine example of the group. What do you guys say "well it only LOOKS just like a pitbull"?
You and vet have still not answered the real question which you continue to avoid and that is why the hugely disproportionate # of attacks and killings by these breeds?
There are plenty of pure bred pitbulls out there. A pitbull type is not a good example of a group. I dint know how many times we have to tell you this. A American bulldog is NOT a pitbull. A press Canario is NOT a pitbull. A dogo is NOT a pitbull. A boxer is NOT a pitbull. Do you consider German Shepard's Akita's? If you look at the breed specifications for all the dogs that have been lumped into a pitbull type they are all vastly different. A American staffy terrier is a recognized breed by the akc. It is not considered a pitbull.
No one is avoiding any question. The study hedge posted was proven to be inaccurate after it came out. The information in the study IS NOT ACCURATE. You cannot lump several breeds into one group, take the incidents of biting or fatality and then call them pitbulls. People who know little about dogs mistake my puppy for a large pitbull all the time. In this picture he was 80 lbs at around 10 months old. That would be a huge pit. But people who know little about pitbulls bulls in general asked said "thats a big pitbull" time after time. Fact is my dog is NOT a pitbull. If he ever did bite someone ( which he never would) and he ran away it would go down as a pitbull attack. I doubt someone would say I was bitten by a 1 year old standard/johnson "hybrid" type American bulldog!!!! You may say meh its a pitbull type. Nope, look up the breed.
The vet and I have answered your question. When a get a little time I will post my research of hundreds of fatal / serious dog attacks perpitrated by breeds like labs collies and even Pomeranian. Just a few months ago a Pomeranian killed a small child on a bed. You never hear about these things because they are not sensational.
The higher incident rate with pitbulls has to do with the dog fighters and low life element that has latched on to the breed. More abused/ neglected / exploited dogs = more attacks. How many gangsters in the hood have labs protecting there drug house? How many low lifes promote aggressive behavior and feed there goldies gun powder? How many tough guys who have no idea how to properly handle a powerful dog own collies? Also, the fact that several breeds are lumped into one group. The total number of deaths is minuscule. That inaccurate list says 12 deaths per year? You have more chance of being killed by a shark or hit by lightning. A much better chance. Please take a look at this temperament chart. Shoots huge holes in several of your arguments.
Temperament Test Results
The American Temperament Test Society conducts tests every year on thousands of dogs to determine the soundness of their temperament. The American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier routinely and consistently rank in the average range, and well above many "popular" breeds such as the beagle, collie, doberman pinscher, cocker spaniel and great dane. (Source: American Temperament Test Society)
Alfons Estelt of the American Temperament Test Society, Inc., stated the following with respect to pit bulls: "The American Pit Bull Terriers participating in our temperament evaluation have thus far shown a passing rate of 95%. The other 121 breeds of dogs in our tests showed the average passing rate of 77%"
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all I gotta say is I have three small children,and If by chance some pit did maul one of them and some guys like you came up to me later trying to tell me it wasn't the dogs fault.I'd be the one doin the mauling.
And what if a black lab did the mauling? What would you do then. This is my puppy. He was 10 months old in this picture. He is a American bulldog. He is not a pitbull. He is often mistaken for a large pitbul. Not so much now since he is over 90 lbs but before he was ALWAYS mistaken for a pit. Many would include my American bull on a list of dangerous dogs.
If I ever got the chance to let you and your children meet my puppy I bet you would come away with a dif attitude towards these type of breeds. He is like a huge teddy bear and he LOVES kids. My 2 year old nephew especially.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=138195.0;attach=156138;image)
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You are right he not a pit. He dont have fighting in his make up like a pitt.
Oh, He can bite real good, but he aint a pitt. Hes also nowhere near as likely as a pit to be a problem.
He is also not as tenatious.
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You are right he not a pit. He dont have fighting in his make up like a pitt.
Oh, He can bite real good, but he aint a pitt. Hes also nowhere near as likely as a pit to be a problem.
He is also not as tenatious
American bulls are part old english bulldog. The original fighting dog. American bulls are renowed for being courageous and fearless, but also very gentle and caring towards family and kids. That is why they are used for hunting boar and protection work so much. Ab's are used for hunting, guarding and working. They are large, strong and very,very athletic. That makes them the perfect working dog for many applications. Ab's are great on farms because they can protect the farm, work, and be a great family pet. There are a bunch of types of American bulldogs. The standard/scott type ( looks like big pitbull, longer nose 70 - 130 lbs) The Johnson type ( short muzzle heavy bones (80 - 150lbs) The hybrid type, standard + johnson which my dog is (70 - 130). There are a few other lines including painters and old English whites, but the ones listed above are the main lines.
Ab's love children and make wonderful companions. Extremely loyal, loving, fearless and goofy are words I would use to describe the breed. Extremely stable and sure. Best dog I have ever owned. My dog is so gentle with my nephew. He adores him.
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So when your pittbull attacks your kid (because you even say they're going to snap one day)
Make sure you blast them both with a shotgun.
Don't worry...Uncle Sam will pay for it.
The reason I said is because you believe this:
Sticking they heads over the top is what I mean by hanging, even high wood fences.
Theres a pair of Pitts next to my sisters house that constantly climb up & stick their heads over the top of a 6'
wood fence. They can climb that fence if they want. How about a little kid walking his dog? Stops to Pee on THEIR spot some day? Once ONE goes off, BOTH go off. Ever break some pitts up? Cheers...
Tip for large dog attack on child - 44 mag or .357mag or 20ga shotgun minimal. Might Need several 9mm or .38spl rds unless you tag 'em square in the head. You can just shoot 'em in the flank w/ the big bores and they'll release the kid. Those smaller handguns just dont have the stopping power for larger animals.
And THAT is ALSO what should happen to the Owners of one that mauls anyone IMO.
my retort is if you are using a shotgun to stop a pitbull...you are going to end up shooting your kid in the process. If you stand 10-15 feet away shooting a dog in the flanks with a shotgun....you are going to hit your child with about 15-25% of the shot (on average). Even during a struggle...your child's head, arm, leg could be in the way & that would result in a fatality of your child.
make sure you READ before you open your mouth again. I am not suggesting you to kill your child....I am suggesting your particular stopping methods of a pitbull attack could result a fatality by your own hands.
What disturbs me is the reply in pm saying "Well, the kids dead anyways".
In another words....it suggests that you don't care of trying to get your child out in one piece let a lone alive because they are "dead anyways".
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It would give the dogs higher value.
It would mean that instead of owning two, three or four dogs, a person would have to settle with maybe one dog, and pay that much more attention to it.
But mainly, it would probably scare away a lot of people who are unfit to own dogs.
Those people wouldn't get dogs, simply because of the slight hassle and cost involved.
Only those who are really committed, persons like you flower, would still be in the game.
For those committed however, the insurance would equal a better service for their loved one.
-Hedge
Man I agree w/ the Insh thing. Have you ever spent much time in the States? It is SO different here.
By value, I mean ... Ok, lets say a dogs life is at stake or a child. Which is more improtant.?
If my neighbors Rottie is killing a child, should the animal be killed if necessary to save the child?
Most PPL will say yes. But I dont know about Kenny if it were his dog.
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Man I agree w/ the Insh thing. Have you ever spent much time in the States? It is SO different here.
By value, I mean ... Ok, lets say a dogs life is at stake or a child. Which is more improtant.?
If my neighbors Rottie is killing a child, should the animal be killed if necessary to save the child?
Most PPL will say yes. But I dont know about Kenny if it were his dog.
I have no problem killing a dog to save a child's life.
I WOULDN"T use a shotgun as YOU WOULD SUGGEST....because the end result could end up killing the child in the process.
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Hedgie is talking about HEALTH INSURANCE FOR DOG CARE, not LIABILITY INSURANCE FOR IF YOUR DOG BITES SOMEONE.
PLEASE READ!! THIS HAS BEEN CLARIFIED ALREADY.
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Just pass the law.
i have a true american pitbull terrier who hasnt been chained, neglected or abused so i dont need the insurance.
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Hedgie is talking about HEALTH INSURANCE FOR DOG CARE, not LIABILITY INSURANCE FOR IF YOUR DOG BITES SOMEONE.
PLEASE READ!! THIS HAS BEEN CLARIFIED ALREADY.
my bad on the above post....thought it was on the liability ins.
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I think the topic Hedgie brought (mandatory health insurance for pets) up could be started in a separate thread because it is causing confusion in this thread.
I split those posts into a separate thread on that topic to stop the confusion in this thread.