Author Topic: Should the policemen have risked their lives to save drowning car thiefs?  (Read 15867 times)

drkaje

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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dashcam-footage-shows-fla-deputies-discussing-whether-to-rescue-girls-who-drowned-in-stolen-car/ar-BBs7xvC?ocid=spartanntp

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Dashcam Footage Shows Fla. Deputies Discussing Whether to Rescue Girls Who Drowned in Stolen Car

Dominique Battle, Ashaunti Butler and Laniya Miller all died after drowning in a stolen car.© Bay News 9 Screenshot Dominique Battle, Ashaunti Butler and Laniya Miller all died after drowning in a stolen car.
Dashcam footage released show that sheriff's deputies did not try to save three Florida teens who drowned after driving into a cemetery pond in a stolen car last month, Raw Story reports.


Dominque Battle, 16, and Ashaunti Butler and Laniya Miller, both 15, died on March 31, following a car chase with officers. The Pinellas County Sheriff's office had previously claimed that the deputies had taken off their gun belts and entered the pond once they realized that the girls were trapped inside. The officers, however, said that their feet sank in the bottom of the pond, causing them to deem any attempt at rescuing too risky.

However, in the audio of the footage, deputies can be heard standing by their cruiser discussing whether to go in after the girls.

"I hear them yelling, I think!" one officer says.

“They’re done. They are 6-7, dude” another officer replies.

“They were yelling,” a deputy responds. “I thought I heard yelling.”

“But now, they’re done. They’re done," the deputy says as the car continues to sink. ""

Obviously, they stole the car and are responsible for what happened. They're also black so we'll get the standard GetBig reponses about dindus and so on.

Should public servants pick and choose when to do their jobs? The kids were assholes but the cops still had a duty in the scenario and stood indifferently by and waited for them to die.

SF1900

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Yeah, this is all over the internet.

Thing is, how are cops going to save these kids lives when its dark, they have no equipment, murky/sludge waters, and gators?

Are cops required to try and help, even if its unreasonable? I mean, even if they werent car thieves, would it still be reasonable?
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BB

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It looks like they were thieves evading capture, you do the crime you take your chances. They shouldn't just leave them, but I would not expect them to risk their lives over it. Especially with acts of nature, it's unreasonable.

drkaje

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Yeah, this is all over the internet.

Thing is, how are cops going to save these kids lives when its dark, they have no equipment, murky/sludge waters, and gators?

Are cops required to try and help, even if its unreasonable? I mean, even if they werent car thieves, would it still be reasonable?

Firemen run into burning buildings.

I wouldn't want either job and am not judging. I'm asking out of morbid curiosity and hoping some reasonable post will find its way through all the inevitable racist shit. :)

I couldn't have gone in after them. I'd have a hard time going in after a soccer-mom and toddlers. I'm not a cop, though.

Deacon Jeschin

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Looks like another win for modern technology.  Without audio, the pigs would not only have gotten away with their obvious neglect of duty, they would have probably shown their muddy shoes and be praised for heroics...."Look, Sarge....ma boots are dirty for tryin to save the youngins....duh."  Dumb fuckers can't even figure  out they are being recorded.

Now, hopefully they will be fired and sued in civil court.  

drkaje

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Is dying while trying to save some car thief is any better?

Deacon Jeschin

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It looks like they were thieves evading capture, you do the crime you take your chances. They shouldn't just leave them, but I would not expect them to risk their lives over it. Especially with acts of nature, it's unreasonable.

How about this?  Forget the circumstances (car theft, cops involved)....A car of people just drove into a lake, and the occupants are crying for help. A group of people witness the accident.  Seeing this, wouldn't at least ONE of the group of witnesses make an attempt at saving a life?

It seems like the cops knew they should have gone in, but chose not to.  

Deacon Jeschin

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Is dying while trying to save some car thief is any better?

Their job entails being there in a situation just like this one..... They failed as cops and as decent humans.

How does one die from diving in a lake anyway?  Were the kids driving Christine?  Was the big, bad car going to drown the cops?

SF1900

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Firemen run into burning buildings.

I wouldn't want either job and am not judging. I'm asking out of morbid curiosity and hoping some reasonable post will find its way through all the inevitable racist shit. :)

I couldn't have gone in after them. I'd have a hard time going in after a soccer-mom and toddlers. I'm not a cop, though.


Big difference: Firemen are trained to fight fires.

Cops are not trained in underwater rescue operations.

Also, I read a statement from a firefighter that there are certain instances where they do not run into a burning building, depending on the context of the situation. Again, I just read this. Don't know how true it is.
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Zillotch

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Anyone who drives an automobile into a body of water like an asshole needs to die. Dumb bitch.

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How about this?  Forget the circumstances (car theft, cops involved)....A car of people just drove into a lake, and the occupants are crying for help. A group of people witness the accident.  Seeing this, wouldn't at least ONE of the group of witnesses make an attempt at saving a life?

It seems like the cops knew they should have gone in, but chose not to.  

I did. I just happen to think that after a certain point, it isn't unreasonable for people in emergency services to say "Okay, we can't handle this, it will put too many people at risk. For instance, if a fire service comes across a totally engulfed building, I wouldn't find it unreasonable if they said "no, we're not going in, just keep they the hoses on it". Or if a cop came across a jumper, I wouldn't expect him to grab the guy if it seemed too risky.

If the cops honestly tried, and thought they were going to get trapped in quicksand, and drown, I'm not going to fault them.

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NOPE

Deacon Jeschin

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I did. I just happen to think that after a certain point, it isn't unreasonable for people in emergency services to say "Okay, we can't handle this, it will put too many people at risk. For instance, if a fire service comes across a totally engulfed building, I wouldn't find it unreasonable if they said "no, we're not going in, just keep they the hoses on it". Or if a cop came across a jumper, I wouldn't expect him to grab the guy if it seemed too risky.

If the cops honestly tried, and thought they were going to get trapped in quicksand, and drown, I'm not going to fault them.

No, of course not.  But that's not what happened.  The cops pondered the idea and decided not to make an attempt.

Zillotch

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The cops pondered the idea and decided not to make an attempt.

I would have been chuckling.....   

Agnostic007

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First, we don't know that any of them did or did not attempt to go in.

I've been involved in a similar call where a burglary suspect was attempting to evade units and ended up going into a pond. In this case it was also night time, dark and officers did make an attempt to get to the car unsuccessfully. The pond in our case wasn't like a swamp or marsh with thick muck and reeds like that one appeared to be. The car went under in a matter of about a minute.

In the current incident, it would likely be high risk low potential for success. To even get out to the car in that muck would likely be near impossible in any reasonable time to reach the vehicle. Then once it goes under the unlikelihood increases significantly. Had it been me, I believe I would have tried to get to the car but I also know that adding a dead officer to the tragedy wouldn't help so I would not suspend all caution and common sense in order to do it. I know I would feel bad about it. We can say they brought it on themselves, and that is true, but personally it would bother me. It was a property crime, and they died for it.   

bigmc

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Firemen run into burning buildings.

I wouldn't want either job and am not judging. I'm asking out of morbid curiosity and hoping some reasonable post will find its way through all the inevitable racist shit. :)

I couldn't have gone in after them. I'd have a hard time going in after a soccer-mom and toddlers. I'm not a cop, though.


i risked my lime to save a big doorman who was going to jump off a bridge

he knocked the officer i was with out cold after we wrestled him off

when we took him to hospital he attacked us again

put in a complaint that we had stolen his wallet and looked at him in a racist way

would i do it again sure i would

you are paid to protect and that includes saving people from themselves

however

why would you now when everyone gives you shit 24/7

ive said this before the police are taking from society

when society is amoral the police reflects that

the whole world is going down the shitter

public and public servants alike
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FREAKgeek

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F them. Learn to swim.

chaos

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3 of them and not one could operate a door handle  ???
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

bigmc

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Good man. How much was in his wallet?

27 pounds good nights work
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pluck

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It's not a cops job to save these people.


Army of One

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Were they chocolate faces in the car?

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No, he should not have been required to run into a dark swamp - he could have easily drowned and he doesn't know what's coming at him.

BUT

he also should not have LIED and say he tried to save them.   Just be honest.  Lying cops make us good guys hate them.  If you lie ONCE as a cop, your ass needs to be gone.   Just move on to a job where you don't take an oath to follow a higher code of ethics and enjoy higher power and responsibility.

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Not knowing the full facts / circumstances is hard to say what I would of done.
Are cops expected to risk their own lives in such situations ? I doubt it.

A hard call - I don't see how the cops could or should be prosecuted.
I don't see that they broke any laws.

Morally who knows. Easy to say I would of done this or that, afterwards & when not actually there.

Deacon Jeschin

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Anyone who drives an automobile into a body of water like an asshole needs to die. Dumb bitch.

They were 15 and 16 year old girls.....Yes, it was a stupid move stealing a car, then ending up in a lake.  That's not the story.....the story is that trained officers of the law chose not to act....then lied about it.  In other words, they knew what they did (or didn't do) was wrong.  Their inactions allowed children to die.

As far as your other comment "I would have chuckled...".   Yeah, tough guy, I'm sure you would have.  If it were your 15 year old child in that car and a group of first responders were on the scene, yet refused to act, you would be thinking differently.  By your response, you're probably 16 years old yourself.

If that's the case, practice being a coward and apply to the police academy in a few years.......