A Math/Statistics Question For Anyone Interested

[Archer77]

You claimed the problem was systemic and institutional before you even mentioned your personal experiences.  What did you mean?  What problem is systemic and institutional?

[SF1900]

You claimed the problem was systemic and institutional before you even mentioned your personal experiences.  What did you mean?  What problem is systemic and institutional?

No, DCF is a system in-and-of-itself.

There are many different systems. The court is a system. The family is a system. DCF is a system. The school is a system.

If there is a problem with DCF I can say its a systemic issue, but its a systemic issue related to DCF.

Here, dingbat:

A system is a set of interacting or interdependent components forming an integrated whole.

DCF is a system of interacting components (workers) that form a whole (DCF). DCF IS A SYSTEM!!

A mother, brother and father and sister are interacting component to form an integrated whole (the family unit). Thus, the family is a system.

"Family is the primary and, almost always, the most powerful system to which humans belong." From a webpage

So, yes, these problems are systemic, but different ecological levels have different systems.

[Archer77]

You claimed the problem was systemic and institutional before you even mentioned your personal experiences.  What did you mean?  What problem is systemic and institutional?

No, DCF is a system in-and-of-itself.

There are many different systems. The court is a system. The family is a system. DCF is a system. The school is a system.

If there is a problem with DCF I can say its a systemic issue, but its a systemic issue related to DCF.

No, you dingbat. My god. You asked for an absolute (how it applied to ALL institutions). That's impossible to answer.

There is a difference in wording!!! Asking how there is a problem systemically in a particular situation is A LOT different than asking how it applies to ALL institutions. You can't give an absolute, just in the same way you cant say that obesity is going to lead to heart disease in every person.

Now if I provided you with more evidence that there is a systemic issue with DCF, that in no way means it applies to ALL DCF organizations in every single state. If a systemic problem in DCF exists in 18 states out of 50, that does not mean there is not a systemic issue with DCF. It indicates that there is enough evidence to suggest that that it may affect people in those state and its a variable to examine and to keep in mind even in those states where the problem does not currently exist (because those problems could always arise at any time).

As stated for the 100th fucking time, there is enough anecdotal evidence and peer reviewed journals and books that discuss this issue. If I have the time, I will send you some things.

But you only provided evidence that a problem existed at your branch of the DCF and that's far from systemic.

[Archer77]

sys·tem·ic
səˈstemik/Submit
adjective
1.
of or relating to a system, especially as opposed to a particular part.
"the disease is localized rather than systemic"
(of an insecticide, fungicide, or similar substance) entering the plant via the roots or shoots and passing through the tissues.


From the examples you provided the problem seems limited to a particular part, your branch of DCF. Is that systemic?

[SF1900]

But you only provided evidence that a problem existed at your branch of the DCF and that's far from systemic.

The way I am defining the term systems, it is a systemic issue. The problem may be the way we are defining what a "system" is. We seem to be defining "system" differently.

Even if its a branch of DCF in vermont, its still a systemic issue, because DCF is a system in-and-of-itself.

Different systems exists at different ecological levels.

[SF1900]

sys·tem·ic
səˈstemik/Submit
adjective
1.
of or relating to a system, especially as opposed to a particular part.
"the disease is localized rather than systemic"
(of an insecticide, fungicide, or similar substance) entering the plant via the roots or shoots and passing through the tissues.


From the examples you provided the problem seems limited to a particular part, your branch of DCF. Is that systemic?

Yes, its systemic because its dealing with that specific branch of DCF, say in vermont and that DCF is a system in-and-of-itself, albeit a small system. Therefore, its a systemic issue because the problem is related to a small system (DCF).

[Archer77]

sys·tem·ic
səˈstemik/Submit
adjective
1.
of or relating to a system, especially as opposed to a particular part.
"the disease is localized rather than systemic"
(of an insecticide, fungicide, or similar substance) entering the plant via the roots or shoots and passing through the tissues.


From the examples you provided the problem seems limited to a particular part, your branch of DCF. Is that systemic?

For the problems at DCF to be systemic they can't be limited to a particular location.  There has to be something about the DCF itself, the way its organized or its policy that is consistent throughout the system.

[SF1900]

For the problems at DCF to be systemic they can't be limited to a particular location.  There has to be something about the DCF itself, the way its organized or its policy that is consistent throughout the system.

Yes, there were many problems with the DCF which was consistent throughout the whole system and affecting its worker. The problem was wide spread enough to where it led to a strike. When all your workers go on strike, yes, id say its a systemic issue at that point.

[SF1900]

For the problems at DCF to be systemic they can't be limited to a particular location.  There has to be something about the DCF itself, the way its organized or its policy that is consistent throughout the system.

And youre wrong. A branch of DCF is a system in and of itself and can have problems within that small branch of DCF. For a system problem to exist it does not have to exist in EVERY DCF branch. There could be DCF issues in specific branches due to poor administration from the top of that branch.

[Archer77]

Yes, there were many problems with the DCF which was consistent throughout the whole system and affecting its worker. The problem was wide spread enough to where it led to a strike. When all your workers go on strike, yes, id say its a systemic issue at that point.

Why didn't you say that? I would have liked to know that.  If there are problems that are consistent through the various branches of DCF you would have a legitimate systemic problem.  Are the problems you experienced consistent with the same problems experienced at other DCF branches?  Do the problems stem from policy or organizational issues?

[SF1900]

Why didn't you say that? I would have liked to know that.  If there are problems that are consistent through the various branches of DCF you would have a legitimate systemic problem.  Are the problems you experienced consistent with the same problems experienced at other DCF branches?  Do the problems stem from policy or organizational issues?

Id argue that just because there is not an issue at EVERY DCF branch, it does not mean its not a systemic issue.

As stated again, DIFFERENT ECOLOGICAL LAYERS HAVE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS!! Some systems are small. some are very big. It's a systemic issue within that branch. Dude, the family unit made up of 4 people is a SYSTEM!! A clique of 10 friends is a system.

Id still argue that its a systemic issue with that branch of DCF, which is affecting that subpopulation of people who reside in that area. IT does not have to be widespread throughout DCF for it be systemic.

[Archer77]

And youre wrong. A branch of DCF is a system in and of itself and can have problems within that small branch of DCF. For a system problem to exist it does not have to exist in EVERY DCF branch. There could be DCF issues in specific branches due to poor administration from the top of that branch.

For the problem to be systemic to DCF it does have to be consistent.  Otherwise, the problem is administrative and has nothing to do directly with DCF.  It's a local hiring issue.

[Archer77]

Id argue that just because there is not an issue at EVERY DCF branch, it does not mean its not a systemic issue.

As stated again, DIFFERENT ECOLOGICAL LAYERS HAVE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS!! Some systems are small. some are very big. It's a systemic issue within that branch. Dude, the family unit made up of 4 people is a SYSTEM!! A clique of 10 friends is a system.

You could argue that problem is systemic to your particular branch but isn't systemic to DCF.  Is the problem DCF or the people working at your branch?  If it's the people the problem isn't with DCF

Not if the administrators of a particular branch of DCF are getting their orders from other higher-ups within DCF, which is often the case. They have to answer somewhere. Its a trickle down effect.

Are they following DCF policy or the direction of the individual above them.  If it's a policy issue then it indicates the possibility of a system problem, that is, if the policy results in the same problem on a consistent basis.

[SF1900]

You could argue that problem is systemic to your particular branch but isn't systemic to DCF.  Is the problem DCF or the people working at your branch?  If it's the people the problem isn't with DCF

Its both.

The administrators of a particular branch of DCF are getting their orders from other higher-ups within DCF, which is often the case. They have to answer somewhere. Its a trickle down effect. And broad policies and procedures are implemented across all DCF branches, which often cause disruption. Sometimes disruption comes from within the branch, but a lot of times people within the branch are reacting to larger policies and procedures being implemented from bosses who do not even work at their branch.

And obviously each system responds differently.

[Archer77]

Its both.

The administrators of a particular branch of DCF are getting their orders from other higher-ups within DCF, which is often the case. They have to answer somewhere. Its a trickle down effect. And broad policies and procedures are implemented across all DCF branches, which often cause disruption. Sometimes disruption comes from within the branch, but a lot of times people within the branch are reacting to larger policies and procedures being implemented from bosses who do not even work at their branch.

And obviously each system responds differently.

In that case, the solution to the problem is a policy change and not hiring other people.  I would consider that systemic.

[El Diablo Blanco]

THE CUT AND PASTE IS STRONG IN THIS THREAD

[SF1900]

THE CUT AND PASTE IS STRONG IN THIS THREAD

Well, I am glad to say I wrote out all of my thoughts. Though, they were not that impressive to begin with.