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Title: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Irongrip400 on March 17, 2020, 04:45:36 PM
Anyone think he'll do shit there, or will the ďmagicĒ be gone because heís not with BB anymore? I wonder if itís the end of the road for both of those guys.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: IroNat on March 17, 2020, 05:18:05 PM
He'll be fine there.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on March 17, 2020, 10:09:10 PM
Wonít make a difference.  Pats have an insane schedule for once.  Would lose even with Brady.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Dos Equis on March 19, 2020, 06:07:06 PM
I don't think he will win a Super Bowl, but he has much better weapons in Tampa Bay than NE.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Irongrip400 on March 22, 2020, 03:57:31 PM
I don't think he will win a Super Bowl, but he has much better weapons in Tampa Bay than NE.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 

Yeah Iíll be tuning in. Good for the Bucs, I hope he does well. Heís a smug prick but heís the best to ever suit up, I hope he doesnít go out on the scrap heap.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Dos Equis on April 01, 2020, 01:21:39 PM
Yeah Iíll be tuning in. Good for the Bucs, I hope he does well. Heís a smug prick but heís the best to ever suit up, I hope he doesnít go out on the scrap heap.

I will watch but I am a Niner fan so I hope he crashes and burns.  lol
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Irongrip400 on April 22, 2020, 05:56:15 PM
He gets Gronk back, will it help? Letís them get a lineman early and have a setup similar to NE. Keep him on his feet and he can throw another 2-3 years.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on April 23, 2020, 07:58:28 AM
Gronk hasn't been able to stay healthy for years.

Bucs are not better than NO/SF/GB.

I don't see this as a big deal.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Irongrip400 on August 11, 2021, 06:31:52 PM
Gronk hasn't been able to stay healthy for years.

Bucs are not better than NO/SF/GB.

I don't see this as a big deal.

 :-\
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Humble Narcissist on October 05, 2021, 04:50:24 AM
These predictions didn't age well. ;D
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on October 05, 2021, 10:48:50 AM
Nope, no they did not.

First, Bucs defense was a fucking beast, so there's that.

But, offense much better too...they signed everyone, and it worked.

Could work again.

They have to be favorites to repeat.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Humble Narcissist on October 06, 2021, 03:43:20 AM
Nope, no they did not.

First, Bucs defense was a fucking beast, so there's that.

But, offense much better too...they signed everyone, and it worked.

Could work again.

They have to be favorites to repeat.
They are probably favored but they won't repeat.  That is very difficult to do and it takes a lot of luck.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Irongrip400 on October 09, 2021, 11:51:40 AM
They are probably favored but they won't repeat.  That is very difficult to do and it takes a lot of luck.

Even the haters would have to admit Brady is the GOAT if they do. Not sure how you argue it at this point though.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Humble Narcissist on October 09, 2021, 12:52:35 PM
Even the haters would have to admit Brady is the GOAT if they do. Not sure how you argue it at this point though.
No, leaving NE, going to the NFC to a team with a losing record and winning the Super Bowl the first year ended any doubt.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on October 11, 2021, 12:31:24 PM
Even the haters would have to admit Brady is the GOAT if they do. Not sure how you argue it at this point though.

I can make a legit argument against it, if I was so inclined.

But nobody on the other side listens to any legit criticism.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Humble Narcissist on October 11, 2021, 12:52:29 PM
I can make a legit argument against it, if I was so inclined.

But nobody on the other side listens to any legit criticism.
Let's hear it.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on October 11, 2021, 08:44:49 PM
Let's hear it.

I'll do it, but only if people are interested in conversation.  We're not about throwing insults around on this board (not saying that's what you do, just for everyone).  If it devolves into bullshit, I'll just delete and move on.

I'm not saying he's not the best....but there are legit events that should be part of the conversation.  I'm sure I will just be called a hater, but that's fine. I don't even dislike Brady, but I do hate when legit questions get ignored for complete homerism.  It's like how fans insist Ortiz was clean.

First, just like the 2017 Astros, the Patriots are confirmed cheaters.  Despite what NE fans say, this was not a case of a camera being in the wrong spot. This was a complete systemic process for stealing the other teams plays. They even employed a man named Ernie Adams, whose full time job was to decipher codes and steal plays, and Goodell and NFL were complicit in the coverup:

Quote
Now, the Patriots realized that they were on to something, a schematic edge that could allow their best minds more control on the field. Taping from the sideline increased efficiency and minimized confusion. And so, as Walsh later told investigators, the system improved, becoming more streamlined -- and more secretive. The quarterbacks were cut out of the process. The only people involved were a few coaches, the video staff and, of course, Adams. Belichick, almost five years after being fired by the Browns and fully aware that this was his last best shot as a head coach, placed an innovative system of cheating in the hands of his most trusted friend.

This was all written about  in the following article which every football fan should read.  It's not some hack hater article, it's actually real investigative journalism, with over 90 sources.  NE fans try to claim spygate was a camera in the wrong place.  Judge for yourself.

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

Either way, every one of those first three SB wins were by less than a TD.  Close enough to question the validity, as each game could legit come down to knowing one or two key plays in advance, by illegal means.  So I put those first three as questionable.

Plus one of them had the tuck rule, which was bullshit as well.

I then classify the Atlanta and Seattle wins as less to do with Brady (he played well) and more to do with the inexplicable decisions were head coaches legitimately gifted wins that they basically had in the bag.  Both had the necessary weapons to secure the game...in fact, they had the best ones in the game.  Seattle needed short yardage to win the SB, and they had the best short yardage back in the game.  Everyone knows how Carrol gifted that one away.  Brady was on the sideline crying with his head in his hands when the Int happend. For the Falcons, all they had to do was run the ball and play  the clock, but the coach inexplicably kept the passing game up.  Then, in FG range, indoors, with the best kicker in the league, they drop Ryan back and he gets sacked out of FG range.  3 runs and a sub 40 yard FG and they win.  Done.  These two are not necessarily a knock on Brady, but moreso how 2 SB could vanish if the coaches were not inept.

They won the Rams SB, but Brady played like shit.  Also, they should have been playing NO since the refs non call of one of the most blatant PI plays in history literally stole the SB appearance from the Saints. Also, a nitpick, but Chiefs "won" when Brady had an incomplete pass to end the  game, but a HAND in the neutral zone gave it a replay, and the Pats won.

Owned by Eli Manning TWICE.  Eli.  Manning.  I will give the 2007 to anyone who says the Giants got lucky on the helmet catch.  However, it is still the greatest play in football history, but I digress.....

TB win is legit, but more to do with TB defense.

Also, the rules favor the current crop of QBs, and offenses more, so the older guys had it much harder.

Now, all that shit I listed might not mean anything, and he's likely still the best ever.  But without a tremendous amount of luck, and maybe cheating, he might have 2 wins.

The stuff above will be dismissed as hating, but it should be part of the conversation when people make their own judgement.

In summary: 3 SB questionable, two gifts, one he played like shit, owned by Eli twice, favorable rules, and some luck.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Humble Narcissist on October 12, 2021, 02:54:46 AM
Good points.  Here are counter points:

1) No player in the NFL does it alone.  There is no doubt NE had some great defenses to help Brady win but he also had fewer great receivers that many QB's have.

2) NE was caught cheating but they have also been scrutinized more than any other team because of their success.  No one cares if the Jets are cheating.

3) Winning is winning regardless of by how many points.

4) Eli Manning played "lights out" in those SB victories and had great defenses as well.

5) Brady moved on to Tampa Bay which had a losing record and won another Super Bowl the first year there in a different division and conference as well.  Most athletes try to move to a stacked team so the path is easier.

6) Brady is obsessed with winning and took pay cuts in NE in order to have more money spent on other players.  Throughout his career he was not even a top 10 paid QB.

I don't really like "all time great" arguments especially in football because there are so many players involved and a player only plays on 1 side of the ball.  In baseball and basketball a player plays offense and defense (except pitchers in American League) and is easier to judge.  Different eras are hard to compare as well because of rule changes.  Today's players can play a lot longer because they are protected.  Bradshaw, Unitas, Fouts, Montana, Favre, etc, took vicious hits to the head and knees that would get defensive players run out of the league today.

If we are going to discuss the all time great and you don't think it's Brady, who is your choice?
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on October 12, 2021, 10:41:26 AM
Good points.  Here are counter points:

1) No player in the NFL does it alone.  There is no doubt NE had some great defenses to help Brady win but he also had fewer great receivers that many QB's have.

2) NE was caught cheating but they have also been scrutinized more than any other team because of their success.  No one cares if the Jets are cheating.

3) Winning is winning regardless of by how many points.

4) Eli Manning played "lights out" in those SB victories and had great defenses as well.

5) Brady moved on to Tampa Bay which had a losing record and won another Super Bowl the first year there in a different division and conference as well.  Most athletes try to move to a stacked team so the path is easier.

6) Brady is obsessed with winning and took pay cuts in NE in order to have more money spent on other players.  Throughout his career he was not even a top 10 paid QB.

I don't really like "all time great" arguments especially in football because there are so many players involved and a player only plays on 1 side of the ball.  In baseball and basketball a player plays offense and defense (except pitchers in American League) and is easier to judge.  Different eras are hard to compare as well because of rule changes.  Today's players can play a lot longer because they are protected.  Bradshaw, Unitas, Fouts, Montana, Favre, etc, took vicious hits to the head and knees that would get defensive players run out of the league today.

If we are going to discuss the all time great and you don't think it's Brady, who is your choice?

1. I agree in principal, but the defensive comment is more in the context of TB, they were monsters, so their turnaround was a myriad of factors, but Brady gets all the credit.

2. Disagree...chicken/egg thing...maybe success was DUE to cheating.  Plus, Bellichek has a history of this stuff (and likely never stopped - re: Cincy taping).  Owners were pissed at the lax penalties for such blatant cheating.  NFL covered up because they couldn't have their current dynasty team be publicized cheaters.  Extra scrutiny is warranted - all in the article.

3. That is true.  But the close scores, to me at least, make it worse, because one play could decide that.  And, if they knew 75% of the other teams plays and it was STILL close, maybe they don't win any of those three on fair playing ground.

4.  Yup..the Eli comment is just to agitate NE fans.  Eli made two of the most prolific passes in NFL SB history, and the escape preceding the helmet catch, combined with ending the perfect season, make it the greatest play ever.

5.  Yup, credit there.  But also easy to do when wife is worth a billion.

Brady is probably overall best, because what he's doing at his age is remarkable.  Longevity counts...I'm a big fan of that.   For the others, I think Montana, P Manning, Elway, Brady are top four, and you can make strong arguments for each, especially Montana.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Humble Narcissist on October 12, 2021, 11:41:27 AM
Montana was widely considered the GOAT before Brady.  Elway also has a claim.  Those teams he took to the SB in the 80's were garbage without him.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on October 12, 2021, 11:49:47 AM
Montana was widely considered the GOAT before Brady.  Elway also has a claim.  Those teams he took to the SB in the 80's were garbage without him.

Super hard to compare players for different eras, since the rule changes favor the offense so much more.  Maybe the older guys get a few more rings if they were protected like Brady.

Who knows.

Good convo though.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Irongrip400 on October 24, 2021, 12:08:24 PM
Iím not dismissing any of your points except the ones about playing garbage teams. You line up against who you like up against.

For me, the dude is top five almost every year he plays, and has probably been arguably the best in half of his 20 years in the league. Iím not a NE or Tampa bay fan, itís just the ďeye testĒ to me. For whatever thatís worth.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on December 20, 2021, 08:10:16 AM
Brady having another insane year, despite getting waxed this week.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: WoogsRaven on December 20, 2021, 01:30:22 PM
Brady having another insane year, despite getting waxed this week.

Just lost Godwin for the season. I think Green Bay gets over the hump and makes the Super Bowl this year. Rodgers is playing lights out right now. So is Brady but I think Rodgers finally makes it back to the big game after a 11 year absence.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Humble Narcissist on December 21, 2021, 02:33:52 AM
Just lost Godwin for the season. I think Green Bay gets over the hump and makes the Super Bowl this year. Rodgers is playing lights out right now. So is Brady but I think Rodgers finally makes it back to the big game after a 11 year absence.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on December 21, 2021, 08:38:05 AM
Just lost Godwin for the season. I think Green Bay gets over the hump and makes the Super Bowl this year. Rodgers is playing lights out right now. So is Brady but I think Rodgers finally makes it back to the big game after a 11 year absence.

I hope so.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Irongrip400 on January 16, 2022, 12:34:08 PM
Yíall watch Man In the Arena? Very well done and gives me a new respect for Brady. Although I canít stand the announcer at the beginning voice is annoying as fuck.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Humble Narcissist on January 29, 2022, 01:49:59 PM
And he's done. Tampa will go back to being Tampa next year.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on January 29, 2022, 01:51:27 PM
And he's done. Tampa will go back to being Tampa next year.

Hold on, sources saying it was fake news.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Humble Narcissist on January 29, 2022, 02:45:16 PM
Hold on, sources saying it was fake news.
He's done.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 01, 2022, 01:15:04 PM
As painful as it is for me to admit this, Brady is the GOAT.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on February 02, 2022, 01:43:08 PM
As painful as it is for me to admit this, Brady is the GOAT.

He is, but that doesn't mean the Patriots cheating shouldn't be part of the discussion.  The 2017 Houston Astros have been absolutely vilified, and it will always be part of their history.  Brady should NOT get a pass here, as the Pats systems was much more elaborate, and involved an NFL cover up.

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart


Quote
Goodell had imposed a $500,000 fine on Belichick, a $250,000 fine on the team and the loss of a first-round draft pick just four days after league security officials had caught the Patriots and before he'd even sent a team of investigators to Foxborough, Massachusetts. Those investigators hadn't come up empty: Inside a room accessible only to Belichick and a few others, they found a library of scouting material containing videotapes of opponents' signals, with detailed notes matching signals to plays for many teams going back seven seasons. Among them were handwritten diagrams of the defensive signals of the Pittsburgh Steelers, including the notes used in the January 2002 AFC Championship Game won by the Patriots 24-17. Yet almost as quickly as the tapes and notes were found, they were destroyed, on Goodell's orders: League executives stomped the tapes into pieces and shredded the papers inside a Gillette Stadium conference room.


Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 02, 2022, 02:02:28 PM
He is, but that doesn't mean the Patriots cheating shouldn't be part of the discussion.  The 2017 Houston Astros have been absolutely vilified, and it will always be part of their history.  Brady should NOT get a pass here, as the Pats systems was much more elaborate, and involved an NFL cover up.

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

Oh I totally agree.  He and Beli-cheat do not get a pass from me.  No question they cheated, got a lot of favorable calls from the refs, etc.  He also got lucky in some of his Super Bowls and benefitted from poor play calling by his opponents. 

Still, I can no longer argue that he isn't the GOAT given the length of time he competed, at his level, and winning with two different teams.  We also know that it was Brady, not Beli-cheat, who was more responsible for the Pats success. 
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Grape Ape on February 02, 2022, 02:25:27 PM
Oh I totally agree.  He and Beli-cheat do not get a pass from me.  No question they cheated, got a lot of favorable calls from the refs, etc.  He also got lucky in some of his Super Bowls and benefitted from poor play calling by his opponents. 

Still, I can no longer argue that he isn't the GOAT given the length of time he competed, at his level, and winning with two different teams.  We also know that it was Brady, not Beli-cheat, who was more responsible for the Pats success.

Agree, but Brady benefitted, and could have 3 less super bowls without the cheating, and 5 less if the opposing coaches weren't on crack.
Title: Re: Brady to the Bucs?
Post by: Dos Equis on February 02, 2022, 02:29:01 PM
Agree, but Brady benefitted, and could have 3 less super bowls without the cheating, and 5 less if the opposing coaches weren't on crack.

I agree.  He also threw a pick six in the Super Bowl.