Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Straw Man on October 16, 2021, 09:16:23 AM
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This is a pretty cool blast from the past
I'd never seen this before
Mentzer starts at about seven and a half minutes into the video
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John Little who owns that channel is a big Mentzer fan. He was a friend of Mentzer IRL.
Here's a new video he uploaded aswell.
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I was such a huge fan of his around this time. I kept a binder of everything he ever wrote in magazines. I might have the most complete Mike Mentzer collection of his thoughts on training.
He evolved in so many ways concerning training. He won the Mr. America training three days a week on a whole body routine. From there he went to training four days a week dividing his body in half using a split of thighs, chest, tricep and the next back, delt and biceps. He further refined his training going into the 1980 Olympia training three days a week primarily on a Frank Calta type rotation. During his best years he included cardio using running and biking. After he retired he was against supplementing with cardio.
As I matured as a young adult I saw him as a very flawed person. No one to look up to. He also got of mileage out of being a drop out pre med student. He still influences my training today though. He certainly influenced pros like Dorian Yates. Mike retired in his 20's I believe. Tragic end to his life and his brother's.
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I was such a huge fan of his around this time. I kept a binder of everything he ever wrote in magazines. I might have the most complete Mike Mentzer collection of his thoughts on training.
He evolved in so many ways concerning training. He won the Mr. America training three days a week on a whole body routine. From there he went to training four days a week dividing his body in half using a split of thighs, chest, tricep and the next back, delt and biceps. He further refined his training going into the 1980 Olympia training three days a week primarily on a Frank Calta type rotation. During his best years he included cardio using running and biking. After he retired he was against supplementing with cardio.
As I matured as a young adult I saw him as a very flawed person. No one to look up to. He also got of mileage out of being a drop out pre med student. He still influences my training today though. He certainly influenced pros like Dorian Yates. Mike retired in his 20's I believe. Tragic end to his life and his brother's.
Yep, I fell for his bullshit when I first started training. Lowering the volume certainly has some merit, especially for those not taking drugs. His thoughts on nutrition were idiotic and his pre-contest diet appears to have been a combination of starvation and meth.
I wonder if anyone else thought it was odd that his "less is more" philosophy didn't extend to steroids and meth.
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John Little who owns that channel is a big Mentzer fan. He was a friend of Mentzer IRL.
Didn't he write for Kennedy/MuscleMag back in the '90s..? (John Little, I mean)
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Didn't he write for Kennedy/MuscleMag back in the '90s..? (John Little, I mean)
Probably. Peter Sisco was his writing partner for many years. They wrote for everyone, Ironman, MuscleMag, MM2K, some karate mags, etc.... They did a lot of stuff - Static Contraction, Power Factor Training, those were their two main topics. John Little now mainly writes on Bruce Lee and Mike Mentzer.
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Probably. Peter Sisco was his writing partner for many years. They wrote for everyone, Ironman, MuscleMag, MM2K, some karate mags, etc.... They did a lot of stuff - Static Contraction, Power Factor Training, those were their two main topics. John Little now mainly writes on Bruce Lee and Mike Mentzer.
Christ - Power Factor Training... I actually remember that through the cobwebs LOL
On a sort of tangent, now I've disturbed the sediment in my memory, I am recalling the Iron Man POF Positions of Flexion(sp?) system. 3 exercises per muscle - one in the midrange, one in the contracted position then one in the stretch position... I may even have tried it for a few months ;D
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Christ - Power Factor Training... I actually remember that through the cobwebs LOL
On a sort of tangent, now I've disturbed the sediment in my memory, I am can recall the Iron Man POF Positions of Flexion(sp?) system. 3 exercises per muscle - one in the midrange, one in the contracted position then one in the stretch position... I may even have tried it for a few months ;D
I think Ironman magazine had a routine that was like that for many years. I think it’s good for natural bodybuilding to avoid overtraining.
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I am can recall the Iron Man POF Positions of Flexion(sp?) system
Steve Holman and his buddy Johnathan Lawson, I think they had another version called MASS too. The POF stuff wasn't too bad -
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Haha nice. Talk about blast from the past.
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This is a pretty cool blast from the past
I'd never seen this before
Mentzer starts at about seven and a half minutes into the video
Thanks for the upload. Hard to believe that those arms are "only" 18 inches. His biggest arm measurement was 18 3/8 and I guess that was off-season, so stage ready it won't be as high. Also in his interview you can clearly see that his pecs were only a little above average.
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Yep, I fell for his bullshit when I first started training. Lowering the volume certainly has some merit, especially for those not taking drugs. His thoughts on nutrition were idiotic and his pre-contest diet appears to have been a combination of starvation and meth.
I wonder if anyone else thought it was odd that his "less is more" philosophy didn't extend to steroids and meth.
Actually, he modified his "less is more" philosophy which I never thought made sense as there are diminishing results. If less is more then nothing is best. The same applies on the other side of the coin where doing more is best then training during every waking hour is ideal. Mike was a thinking person and for better or worse he was constantly evolving. In one of his articles, he changed his "less is more" for "precise is best" and this varies among individuals. The principles are always constant and unchanging but the application varies greatly.
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Yep, I fell for his bullshit when I first started training. Lowering the volume certainly has some merit, especially for those not taking drugs. His thoughts on nutrition were idiotic and his pre-contest diet appears to have been a combination of starvation and meth.
I wonder if anyone else thought it was odd that his "less is more" philosophy didn't extend to steroids and meth.
What kind of training protocol do you follow now and what were the improvements made after switching away from HIT?
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Steve Holman and his buddy Johnathan Lawson, I think they had another version called MASS too. The POF stuff wasn't too bad -
Thanks BB - so helpful as always - and Tom Varga - there's a name I haven't hear in a long time - wasn't he like 5 foot dead or something? ;D
Thanks for the upload. Hard to believe that those arms are "only" 18 inches. His biggest arm measurement was 18 3/8 and I guess that was off-season, so stage ready it won't be as high. Also in his interview you can clearly see that his pecs were only a little above average.
I know what you mean - for me personally one of the main things that appeals to me about Mentzer's physique is his proportions, but despite that his arms do indeed look bigger than 18" - especially when he does that signature arms forward pose (which probably has a proper name LOL)
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What kind of training protocol do you follow now and what were the improvements made after switching away from HIT?
I couldn't really follow HIT because when I read his booklet I was in high school and working out at home. I had a 300 lb Weider Olympic set and wobbly adjustable bench with an even wobblier squat rack attachment. I had no way to do forced reps which seemed, according to Mentzer to be a requirement.
By the time I joined a gym which I think was either Jr or Sr year of high school I was following Calta's Routine which was ~ 6- 8 sets per body part per workout
At the time my gym (in Lewisville Texas) had a big room and a small room and they opened the big room to men on M-W-F and the women got the small room and then they reversed it on T-TH-Sat. So it fit perfectly with Calta's routine. I probably gained about 25 or 30 lbs in those two years doing that but also, of course I was still a teenager so just gaining weight/size by getting older as well
Later on in college I followed Lee Labrada's split and training with was similar in volume to Calta's routine.
Mentzer's workout ideas in the 1990's were a much lower volume and frequency that he had previously advocated. They seemed kind of ridiculous.
At the present moment I do about 9-12 sets per bp spread over 3 exercise per bp
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Thanks BB - so helpful as always - and Tom Varga - there's a name I haven't hear in a long time - wasn't he like 5 foot dead or something? ;D
I know what you mean - for me personally one of the main things that appeals to me about Mentzer's physique is his proportions, but despite that his arms do indeed look bigger than 18" - especially when he does that signature arms forward pose (which probably has a proper name LOL)
Mentzer had a great vacuum pose too and very few pro's today and do this pose and look as good
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Thanks BB - so helpful as always - and Tom Varga - there's a name I haven't hear in a long time - wasn't he like 5 foot dead or something? ;D
He was Lee Priestish in height, 5' 3" maybe, but that could be just breaking 5' in real life, about 180lbs. He looked good though.
Here's the legs POF workout -
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Also Mentzer stuff, here's the interview he did with MM2k when he was first getting back into the scene, I forget if there is anything interesting on it, but it's kinda rare -
1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgX-rXQKCnM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgX-rXQKCnM).
2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elIjfVOsnvA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elIjfVOsnvA).
3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mzic0cz5e4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mzic0cz5e4).
4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQLz6BXbs8U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQLz6BXbs8U).
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Mike Mentzer's last interview with "The Sandwich" (Josh Brown). This was when Ironman was going through its hardcore phase (98 - 2000) so it's a little more aggressive than other interviews. It cuts off at the bottom, I forget if they go farther in the mag, or if this was to be a two parter that never was -
https://www.ironmanmagazine.com/mike-mentzers-last-interview/ .
More Sandwich Stuff - https://www.ironmanmagazine.com/author/the-sandwich/ .
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/duchaine/dan-duchaine-skullfucked.htm .
Also just so I remember it, the MesoRx article page, they published some good stuff over the years - http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/ .
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Thanks for the upload. Hard to believe that those arms are "only" 18 inches. His biggest arm measurement was 18 3/8 and I guess that was off-season, so stage ready it won't be as high. Also in his interview you can clearly see that his pecs were only a little above average.
He said his arms were 18.5'' measured in a very strict way, not bad considering he was only 5'8''
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Mentzer had a great vacuum pose too and very few pro's today and do this pose and look as good
There's only a 15 pound difference between the top pics.
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He said his arms were 18.5'' measured in a very strict way, not bad considering he was only 5'8''
But I bet on that video they were actually a tad under 18 inches, because that was in a contest, and I believe he was around 200 pounds there. His biggest contest weight was 210 at the 1979 Mr. O
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But I bet on that video they were actually a tad under 18 inches, because that was in a contest, and I believe he was around 200 pounds there. His biggest contest weight was 210 at the 1979 Mr. O
Oh well that Idk but I remember reading in an article he said himself his arms were 18.5'' measured in a very strict way. as a point of reference my arms were 18'' in my pic and I'm 5'7''
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Oh well that Idk but I remember reading in an article he said himself his arms were 18.5'' measured in a very strict way. as a point of reference my arms were 18'' in my pic and I'm 5'7''
An 18 inch arm is a very big arm, but an 18 inch arm at 6% is much different than an 18 inch arm at 12%
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An 18 inch arm is a very big arm, but an 18 inch arm at 6% is much different than an 18 inch arm at 12%
Tbh in my pic I was probable 15-18% body fat. Yes Mentzer was ripped af but he was on the sauce, I'm natty
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Probably. Peter Sisco was his writing partner for many years. They wrote for everyone, Ironman, MuscleMag, MM2K, some karate mags, etc.... They did a lot of stuff - Static Contraction, Power Factor Training, those were their two main topics. John Little now mainly writes on Bruce Lee and Mike Mentzer.
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Sisco and Little produced ridiculous programs that supposedly were "scientific" and the best way to build muscle while one guy was skinny as a rail and the other guy was fat.
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I was such a huge fan of his around this time. I kept a binder of everything he ever wrote in magazines. I might have the most complete Mike Mentzer collection of his thoughts on training.
He evolved in so many ways concerning training. He won the Mr. America training three days a week on a whole body routine. From there he went to training four days a week dividing his body in half using a split of thighs, chest, tricep and the next back, delt and biceps. He further refined his training going into the 1980 Olympia training three days a week primarily on a Frank Calta type rotation. During his best years he included cardio using running and biking. After he retired he was against supplementing with cardio.
As I matured as a young adult I saw him as a very flawed person. No one to look up to. He also got of mileage out of being a drop out pre med student. He still influences my training today though. He certainly influenced pros like Dorian Yates. Mike retired in his 20's I believe. Tragic end to his life and his brother's.
What is a Frank Calta routine? I never heard of him nor do I remember any reference to him by Mike.
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What is a Frank Calta routine? I never heard of him nor do I remember any reference to him by Mike.
[/quotehttp://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=670321.0
www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=670321.0
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I couldn't really follow HIT because when I read his booklet I was in high school and working out at home. I had a 300 lb Weider Olympic set and wobbly adjustable bench with an even wobblier squat rack attachment. I had no way to do forced reps which seemed, according to Mentzer to be a requirement.
By the time I joined a gym which I think was either Jr or Sr year of high school I was following Calta's Routine which was ~ 6- 8 sets per body part per workout
At the time my gym (in Lewisville Texas) had a big room and a small room and they opened the big room to men on M-W-F and the women got the small room and then they reversed it on T-TH-Sat. So it fit perfectly with Calta's routine. I probably gained about 25 or 30 lbs in those two years doing that but also, of course I was still a teenager so just gaining weight/size by getting older as well
Later on in college I followed Lee Labrada's split and training with was similar in volume to Calta's routine.
Mentzer's workout ideas in the 1990's were a much lower volume and frequency that he had previously advocated. They seemed kind of ridiculous.
At the present moment I do about 9-12 sets per bp spread over 3 exercise per bp
So it wasn't so much his training principles but rather not having the proper environment to implement it?
How many days a week do you train?
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If he was alive today I am confident he would reject his previous beliefs on diet since they were clearly a reflection of this misguided "science" of the 80s. 65% carb diet has no basis in science and certainly no basis in anthropology of which people are becoming increasingly aware. I imagine Mike would be in the same camp as Prof Tim Noakes who was largely to blame for the high carb fad in exercise science, and who has done a complete 180 since then.
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If he was alive today I am confident he would reject his previous beliefs on diet since they were clearly a reflection of this misguided "science" of the 80s. 65% carb diet has no basis in science and certainly no basis in anthropology of which people are becoming increasingly aware. I imagine Mike would be in the same camp as Prof Tim Noakes who was largely to blame for the high carb fad in exercise science, and who has done a complete 180 since then.
A calorie is a calorie.
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Mentzer lying about studying medicine at the end of the clip ;D. Announcer describing him as a medical student. :D
This is what pissed off Arnold the most about Mike and (among other things, mainly Zane's disrespect) made him decide to compete in 1980. He was fed up with Mentzer's delusion about saying he was a medical student at every opportunity. He was going to teach Mike a lesson about being a bullshitter. Little did Mike know that his lies about being a medical student would lead to his loss in 1980 and subsequent madness and death. :'(
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What is a Frank Calta routine? I never heard of him nor do I remember any reference to him by Mike.
Mike never mentioned Calta but for the 1980 Olympia he followed his "Rotation for Recuperation" method. I will use days of the week to get a clear concept of the methodology. First week was Monday:Thighs-chest- triceps. Wednesday was Back-delts-biceps. Friday was back to Thighs-chest-triceps. Saturday and Sunday off. The next week Monday started with Back-delts-biceps. On Wednesday it was Thighs-chest-triceps. Friday was back to Back-delts-biceps. So body parts were either hit twice or once a week. Mentzer switched to this rotation split after Frank Calta's routine came out in Iron Man and Mentzer adopted it. Yes, he never mentioned Calta but who else was doing this type split at the time of rotating how many days a body part gets worked?
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What is a Frank Calta routine? I never heard of him nor do I remember any reference to him by Mike.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=670321.msg9540445#msg9540445
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If he was alive today I am confident he would reject his previous beliefs on diet since they were clearly a reflection of this misguided "science" of the 80s. 65% carb diet has no basis in science and certainly no basis in anthropology of which people are becoming increasingly aware. I imagine Mike would be in the same camp as Prof Tim Noakes who was largely to blame for the high carb fad in exercise science, and who has done a complete 180 since then.
Brutal if true
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John Little who owns that channel is a big Mentzer fan. He was a friend of Mentzer IRL.
Here's a new video he uploaded aswell.
03:46 Well if you were to
03:47 listen to the hucksters of the
03:50 nutritional products you would believe
03:51 that your diet should be made up
03:52 entirely of protein
03:55 but if you listen to
03:56 qualified nutritional scientists
03:59 you'll hear most often that your diet
04:00 should be 65 percent carbohydrates 25
04:03 protein and 15 fats that's true for
04:06 athletes and the average individual like
;D
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Low carb diet is better for health and muscle size
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Low carb diet is better for health and muscle size
Not in my case, I dieted on low carb and looked like absolute shit, flat and stingy. I found through trial and error that I can't go below 200 carb grams a day, and if I do I get that shitty flat and stringy look.
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03:46 Well if you were to
03:47 listen to the hucksters of the
03:50 nutritional products you would believe
03:51 that your diet should be made up
03:52 entirely of protein
03:55 but if you listen to
03:56 qualified nutritional scientists
03:59 you'll hear most often that your diet
04:00 should be 65 percent carbohydrates 25
04:03 protein and 15 fats that's true for
04:06 athletes and the average individual like
;D
I'm no math genius but doesn't that add up to a near Ferrigno amount of 105%? ;D
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Those iron man videos are pretty good, is there anywhere i can find those videos to watch later?And who were some of the bodybuilders in those videos?
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Mentzer lying about studying medicine at the end of the clip ;D . Announcer describing him as a medical student. :D
This is what pissed off Arnold the most about Mike and (among other things, mainly Zane's disrespect) made him decide to compete in 1980. He was fed up with Mentzer's delusion about saying he was a medical student at every opportunity. He was going to teach Mike a lesson about being a bullshitter. Little did Mike know that his lies about being a medical student would lead to his loss in 1980 and subsequent madness and death. :'(
Yep - like Palumbo likes to pretend. They were all "premed" students, haha. Yeah, weren't we all.
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A calorie is a calorie.
Except when it comes to hunger pangs, haha. I eat a diet roughly 50/25/25, the % of calories being from fats/carbs/protein. What a difference it makes in satiating hunger. I can stay at 2200 calories a day forever when I up the fat %. If I did the same diet at 50% of carbs I'd be starving all day because of the insulin spikes.
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Except when it comes to hunger pangs, haha. I eat a diet roughly 50/25/25, the % of calories being from fats/carbs/protein. What a difference it makes in satiating hunger. I can stay at 2200 calories a day forever when I up the fat %. If I did the same diet at 50% of carbs I'd be starving all day because of the insulin spikes.
Yeah, fat is good to handle hunger pangs. This is why low fat diets suck.
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Mike never mentioned Calta but for the 1980 Olympia he followed his "Rotation for Recuperation" method. I will use days of the week to get a clear concept of the methodology. First week was Monday:Thighs-chest- triceps. Wednesday was Back-delts-biceps. Friday was back to Thighs-chest-triceps. Saturday and Sunday off. The next week Monday started with Back-delts-biceps. On Wednesday it was Thighs-chest-triceps. Friday was back to Back-delts-biceps. So body parts were either hit twice or once a week. Mentzer switched to this rotation split after Frank Calta's routine came out in Iron Man and Mentzer adopted it. Yes, he never mentioned Calta but who else was doing this type split at the time of rotating how many days a body part gets worked?
I can't do anything else on leg day let alone a large muscle group like Chest. Yates due to time and scheduling constraints when he had to work a full time job combined arms with legs and I can see that. But Chest and triceps. No way. I always have to take two days off after just training legs.
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Low carb diet is better for health and muscle size
I don't know. Jay was a huge proponent of high cabs. In fact, most huge bbers eat a ton of carbs, which is partly responsible for the rise in type 2 diabetes.
When I think about it, say a pro bber is getting in 500 grams of protein a day. That's only 2,000 calories. Where are the other 3,000 calories coming from to get to 275-300 lb? How much fat can they eat to meet their caloric requirement with getting a heart attack.
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John Little who owns that channel is a big Mentzer fan. He was a friend of Mentzer IRL.
Here's a new video he uploaded aswell.
Great find .... interesting how Mentzer started to look like Weider as he got older .
WoooSHHHHHHHHHHHHH Heavy Master Duty Blaster
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If Mentzer were still alive....his Heavy Duty routine would now be at 1 set of 1 rep. And only to train 1 bodypart per week on a rotating basis. Each bodypart getting hit once ever 8-9 weeks. His 30 extra calories per day....needed to add extra muscle....would have have been reduced to 15 calories. A very small bite out of an apple.
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I can't do anything else on leg day let alone a large muscle group like Chest. Yates due to time and scheduling constraints when he had to work a full time job combined arms with legs and I can see that. But Chest and triceps. No way. I always have to take two days off after just training legs.
Guys for decades would train their whole body in one day. Mentzer won the Mr. America doing that and so did Casey Viator. Guys juicing can get away with things natural guys can't get away with too.
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If Mentzer were still alive....his Heavy Duty routine would now be at 1 set of 1 rep. And only to train 1 bodypart per week on a rotating basis. Each bodypart getting hit once ever 8-9 weeks. His 30 extra calories per day....needed to add extra muscle....would have have been reduced to 15 calories. A very small bite out of an apple.
Believe it or not, Sisco and Little advocated 1 set of 1 rep for 1 exercise in one of their (s)HIT programs. Eventually they said you would only be training once every 6 months. ::)
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Guys for decades would train their whole body in one day. Mentzer won the Mr. America doing that and so did Casey Viator. Guys juicing can get away with things natural guys can't get away with too.
This. There is a very low upper limit of intense exercise the body can take before breaking down, naturally. Mentzer was right in limiting sets but then it got reduced to the absurd level.
An acquaintance of mine was caught up in the Lance Armstrong drug scandal. He told me that with EPO after each race he could go out and race another 100 miles in the Tour de France every day like the prior days never happened. He said his recovery was so fast it was magical.
Drugs make all the difference in the world for extreme performances, bodybuilding, etc.
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Guys for decades would train their whole body in one day. Mentzer won the Mr. America doing that and so did Casey Viator. Guys juicing can get away with things natural guys can't get away with too.
Mentzer said that the whole body 3 times a week was really fucking him up and after a session he would have to lay down and sleep for 2 or 3 hours. Later he split the body in half and he said that the recovery from that was more than 50% better even though it was a 50% change. In my opinion even splitting the body in half is still too much, split in thirds is doable though. Now pretty much everybody just trains one bodypart a day.
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Mentzer said that the whole body 3 times a week was really fucking him up and after a session he would have to lay down and sleep for 2 or 3 hours. Later he split the body in half and he said that the recovery from that was more than 50% better even though it was a 50% change. In my opinion even splitting the body in half is still too much, split in thirds is doable though. Now pretty much everybody just trains one bodypart a day.
It depends on how many sets you are training per bodypart. A person training 1 to 2 sets per bodypart can do a full body workout in under an hour. If you are trying to do 5 to 10 sets per bodypart for a full body workout it would be exhausting. Mentzer was training to failure on every exercise which is not needed at all.
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Train hard, eat well, take steroids and you grow
Gains come from hard work, consistency, lifting heavy, not fancy training programs
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Those iron man videos are pretty good, is there anywhere i can find those videos to watch later?And who were some of the bodybuilders in those videos?
Amazon rents or sells the the set as a digital thing for $3 or $15 respectively, just search "Iron Man Magazine's Critical Mass POF Bodybuilding".
You could try a Youtube downloader too, I use clipconverter.cc, but you've got to watch for pop-ups, like most of those download sites.
The bodybuilders used for it were - Paul DeMayo, Tom Varga, Darryl Thornton, Kevin Hall, and Chris Duffy. DeMayo's the biggest name, but they were all top NPC guys in the early to mid 90's.
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It depends on how many sets you are training per bodypart. A person training 1 to 2 sets per bodypart can do a full body workout in under an hour. If you are trying to do 5 to 10 sets per bodypart for a full body workout it would be exhausting. Mentzer was training to failure on every exercise which is not needed at all.
He only did one set til failure on each exercise but I believe he was doing like 20 exercises, so 20 sets til failure is FUCKING BRUTAL!
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He only did one set til failure on each exercise but I believe he was doing like 20 exercises, so 20 sets til failure is FUCKING BRUTAL!
People are always claiming that Mentzer didn't train the way he exposed. He did so to make money. How exactly would he profit if you, I, or anybody else trained using his protocol? He didn't work for Nautilus and never profited from the sales. Why is it that people that make all these claims about how he trained never witnessed themselves what he actually did in the gym?
Why don't we ask Samir Bannout who actually trained with Mike?
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Mentzer said that the whole body 3 times a week was really fucking him up and after a session he would have to lay down and sleep for 2 or 3 hours. Later he split the body in half and he said that the recovery from that was more than 50% better even though it was a 50% change. In my opinion even splitting the body in half is still too much, split in thirds is doable though. Now pretty much everybody just trains one bodypart a day.
I know very few people that train just one body part per day. You do arms and that's it? I think it's a very inefficient use of time but then again, some just like going to the gym every day like clockwork.
I occasionally run into this guy when our schedules match, that's around 55 years old, who trains six days a week at 2 PM like clock work. One day, and this was just about two weeks ago I saw him coming in at 3:00 pm. It was on a Saturday and I chided him for being "late". He said that he was at a birthday party for his son. I asked him how old his son was now and what kind of party was it. He told me his son turn 12 years old and they held it at his house and put up a tent in his yard for all his friends and relatives. I mentioned that the party sure wrapped up early. He told me no, it was still going on but he left to come to the gym.
Imagine that? How many times do you get to spend the day with all your friends and relatives? When you are on your death bed how many will say that they wished they spent more time in the gym. That they did more sets and reps? Would he be glad that he left his family and friends to spend two hours in a gym with just passing acquaintances that wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if he drop dead that night?
Unless you are a professional athlete, exercise -- going to the gym, is supposed to enhance the quality of your life and not be your life.
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Guys for decades would train their whole body in one day. Mentzer won the Mr. America doing that and so did Casey Viator. Guys juicing can get away with things natural guys can't get away with too.
I know it's been done. I use to do full-body training for years. But if you do that you have to limit the amount of exercises you can do per bodypart. Even though I am a strong proponent of Arthur Jones/Mentzer philosophy I found I simply can't do the various movements and angles I believe necessary for all muscle groups in one session. Benching, Incline, flys, overhead pull-down, a rowing movement, front presses, side, rear delts, squats, leg extension, leg curl, lower back, bicep, tricep, abs. Even if I just do one set of each, no warmup, it would take too long and I wouldn't have the energy to put in the intensity toward the end. If I did just one pulling and pushing exercise, which would cover all the major muscles in the upper body along with squats and situps then it would be doable but I don't think it would be optimal.
Also, Mentzer wrote down his routine he used for the America and he was training 4 days a week spitting up bodyparts.
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Believe it or not, Sisco and Little advocated 1 set of 1 rep for 1 exercise in one of their (s)HIT programs. Eventually they said you would only be training once every 6 months. ::)
Source?
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Train hard, eat well, take steroids and you grow
Gains come from hard work, consistency, lifting heavy, not fancy training programs
How has that worked out for you?
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People are always claiming that Mentzer didn't train the way he exposed. He did so to make money. How exactly would he profit if you, I, or anybody else trained using his protocol? He didn't work for Nautilus and never profited from the sales. Why is it that people that make all these claims about how he trained never witnessed themselves what he actually did in the gym?
Why don't we ask Samir Bannout who actually trained with Mike?
&index=32
Here's how he trained, don't think it's a lie.
https://www.ironmanmagazine.com/heavy-duty-mike-mentzers-most-productive-routine/
AT HOME WORKOUTSTHINKING ABOUT COMPETING? FULL CHEST WORKOUTCucumber lime mint spinach protein drinkRECIPE: GREEN PROTEIN DRINKbodybuilder pumping ironTIPS: ON HOW TO GET TWO INCHES ON YOUR ARM IN 12 WEEKS
OVER-40 TRAININGJULY 1, 2003Heavy Duty: Mike Mentzer’s Most Productive RoutineIt was the essential basic Heavy Duty routine consisting of four to five sets per bodypart and broken into two workouts.
JOHN LITTLE
SHARETWEETPINBUILDING THE ULTIMATE PHYSIQUE
MONTH 7: SHOULDER TRAINING WITH THE MAX CONTRACTION SYSTEMAB-SESSION: MIDSECTION MADNESS FOR A MORE COMPLETE PHYSIQUE
He stood only 5'8' yet packed 215 pounds of rock-solid muscle on his frame. His triceps, in particular, when viewed from behind, reminded one of two large watermelons hanging out of a T-shirt. Reports varied as to the actual size of his arms. When Mike Mentzer was asked how big they were at one of his seminars, he responded with characteristic wryness, 'Very big.'
I once asked Mike what his arms had taped at their largest, and his answer startled me: 'About 18 1/2 inches.' I was incredulous. 'But they look well over 20 inches!' I exclaimed. 'Pumped, they probably are, John,' he replied, 'but measured cold'which is how you should measure your arms'they never stretched the tape beyond 18 1/2.'
Upon hearing that, I quickly realized how much deceit was being practiced in the bodybuilding world, where champions whose arms were obviously far less substantial than Mike's would loudly proclaim measurements of 21 inches or, in some instances that stretched credibility to the breaking point, 22 inches.
The Role of Genetics
Without question genetics played a huge role in providing the foundation for the muscular mass that Mike built'as he was the first to admit. In later years, however, he confided that he had reservations about making such a strong case for genetics. While genetic characteristics were important, Mike believed that they had been overemphasized. He worried that the notion that you have to have good genetics to achieve a championship physique had actually served to destroy the motivation of certain bodybuilders. 'Besides,' Mike explained, 'it's very difficult to accurately assess your genetic potential. At best you might be able to get a suggestion of where you might go based on your muscle belly lengths, your bone structure and metabolism and neuromuscular efficiency, but the most important thing, I think, is motivation'everyone can improve themselves, and that's important. Not everyone is going to become Mr. Olympia, but we can all improve ourselves.'
In 1986 I was living in Canada and searching for answers concerning the 'ultimate truth' of bodybuilding, and I set out to interview those who, in my estimation, had tried to decipher this Rosetta stone themselves. I interviewed Lou Ferrigno, John Grimek, Paul Anderson, Doug Hepburn, Frank Zane, Lee Haney, Dorian Yates, Lee Labrada, Steve Reeves and both Mike and Ray Mentzer, among others. It was during a trip to California to interview Steve Reeves, in fact, that Mike invited me to stay with him as his guest at his apartment in Hollywood. I readily accepted, for I knew that it would afford me an opportunity to talk not only bodybuilding but philosophy, a passion that Mike and I shared for more than two decades.
Mike and I talked about a great many subjects during that trip, but first and foremost on my mind was finding out what Mike Mentzer's most productive training routine had been. I knew that he'd been all over the board in terms of sets and reps throughout his early career, starting out with a whole-body workout performed three days per week, on which he gained no less than 70 pounds over three years, bringing his bodyweight up from 95 pounds at age 12 to 165 pounds at 15. From there Mike moved on to the routines advocated in the various muscle magazines that espoused 20-sets-per-bodypart training, even at one time extending that to 40 sets per bodypart. That brought his bodyweight up again, but only slightly.
When his gains eventually ground to a complete halt on high-set routines, he happened to make the acquaintance of Casey Viator, then the youngest person ever to hold the Mr. America title, and learned of the high-intensity-training principles advocated by Nautilus creator Arthur Jones. After speaking with Jones directly, Mike decided to switch back to a three-days-per-week whole-body routine, performing approximately five sets per bodypart in high-intensity fashion. He won the '76 Mr. America contest at a bodyweight of 205 pounds while training on such a program, but he didn't stay with it, switching eventually to a split routine performed four days per week. Then, prior to his Mr. Olympia appearances in 1979 and '80'where he tipped the scales at a rock-solid 215 pounds'he spread out his routine even further, training only once every two to four days.
I wasn't interested so much in his theories (they were not as advanced as they would become from 1993 on, when he reduced the sets to one on a split routine that saw his clients training but once every four to seven days) as I was in learning what he actually did; i.e., how he'd trained to build the incredible muscle mass that he was known for and what he'd personally found to be the most productive muscle-building routine of his entire career. Mike was seated at his desk, and I was directly across from him on a sofa in the living room when I first asked him about it. Mike smiled, knowing that it was the question all aspiring bodybuilders wanted the answer to and, indeed, the very question he himself had posed to his idols, like the great Bill Pearl, when he was starting out in bodybuilding.
'The routine I followed was the essential basic Heavy Duty routine consisting of four to five sets per bodypart and broken into two workouts,' he began. 'The first workout would be legs, chest and triceps; the second workout was back, shoulders and biceps. I would start with leg extensions'six to eight reps to failure'and then continue beyond that with forced reps and negative reps, and then go immediately to leg presses, preferably on a Nautilus Compound Leg machine, as that would allow me to go from one exercise to the other without pausing. After that I would do one set of squats to positive failure, usually in the neighborhood of 400 to 500 pounds, and then proceed on to leg curls for two sets.
'Then I'd work calves, typically two sets of standing calf raises on a machine, followed by one set of toe presses on a leg press machine to failure. After legs I'd move on to chest for one to two supersets of dumbbell flyes or pec deck and incline barbell presses. I'd follow that up with one or two sets of dips. I always selected weights for my exercises that allowed me to get at least six good positive repetitions and then continue with forced and negative reps. With any preexhaust set, such as leg extensions to leg presses or pec deck to incline presses, I would take no rest at all between exercises, but I would rest long enough to catch my breath, and I'd only do the negatives once a week on each exercise. Moving on to triceps, I'd limit myself to fewer than four sets for triceps, doing one preexhaust cycle of triceps pressdowns followed immediately by a set of dips. Then I might finish off with two sets of lying triceps extensions. That would be it.'
ALL'What about your second workout of the week?' I inquired. Mike's forearms rippled as he carefully placed a pen on his desk and answered, 'That would be back, shoulders and biceps. I would begin with the largest muscle group'the back'and perform Nautilus pullovers supersetted with close-grip underhand pulldowns. I'd complete two cycles of those two exercises and then move on to two sets of bent-over barbell rows to finish up my lat work.
'From there I would move on to traps and perform two preexhaust cycles of Universal machine shrugs supersetted with upright rows. Then it would be on to shoulders, for which I would do two superset cycles of Nautilus lateral raises followed by Nautilus behind-the-neck presses and two sets of either rear-delt rows'performed by sitting backward in a pec deck machine and squeezing your elbows as far back as they can go'or two sets of bent-over dumbbell laterals. And finally, I'd finish up with biceps, where I'd do one set of standing barbell curls to failure followed by one or two sets of either seated concentration curls or preacher curls.'
Workout 1 (Monday)
Legs
Superset
Leg extensions 1 x 6-8
Leg presses 1 x 6-8
Squats 1 x 6-8
Leg curls 2 x 6-8
Calf raises 2 x 6-8
Toe presses 1 x 6-8
Chest
Superset
Dumbbell flyes or pec deck 1-2 x 6-8
Incline presses 1-2 x 6-8
Dips 2 x 6-8
Triceps
Superset
Pushdowns 1 x 6-8
Dips 1 x 6-8
Lying triceps extensions 2 x 6-8
Workout 2 (Wednesday)
Back
Superset
Nautilus pullovers 2 x 6-8
Close-grip pulldowns 2 x 6-8
Bent-over barbell rows 2 x 6-8
Traps
Superset
Universal machine shrugs 2 x 6-8
Upright rows 2 x 6-8
Shoulders
Superset
Nautilus laterals 2 x 6-8
Nautilus presses 2 x 6-8
Rear-delt rows 2 x 6-8
Biceps
Standing barbell curls 1 x 6-8
Concentration curls 2 x 6-8
He talks the full body workouts in this article.
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I know very few people that train just one body part per day. You do arms and that's it? I think it's a very inefficient use of time but then again, some just like going to the gym every day like clockwork.
I occasionally run into this guy when our schedules match, that's around 55 years old, who trains six days a week at 2 PM like clock work. One day, and this was just about two weeks ago I saw him coming in at 3:00 pm. It was on a Saturday and I chided him for being "late". He said that he was at a birthday party for his son. I asked him how old his son was now and what kind of party was it. He told me his son turn 12 years old and they held it at his house and put up a tent in his yard for all his friends and relatives. I mentioned that the party sure wrapped up early. He told me no, it was still going on but he left to come to the gym.
Imagine that? How many times do you get to spend the day with all your friends and relatives? When you are on your death bed how many will say that they wished they spent more time in the gym. That they did more sets and reps? Would he be glad that he left his family and friends to spend two hours in a gym with just passing acquaintances that wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if he drop dead that night?
Unless you are a professional athlete, exercise -- going to the gym, is supposed to enhance the quality of your life and not be your life.
That's how most elite bodybuilders train nowadays, one bodypart a day 5 days a week. Started with Yates in the early 90's, except he trained 4 days a week, and he put bis with chest and tris with delts, and he had a back day and a leg day. How many days do you train per week and how do you split it up?
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That's how most elite bodybuilders train nowadays, one bodypart a day 5 days a week. Started with Yates in the early 90's, except he trained 4 days a week, and he put bis with chest and tris with delts, and he had a back day and a leg day. How many days do you train per week and how do you split it up?
I'm not sure what you mean by "started with Yates" as Yates did not do just one bodypart per session and only trained 4 days per week.
I currently train 2-3 times a week depending on the week. I do 5 workouts over a two-week period and each body part is trained once every 8 days.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "started with Yates" as Yates did not do just one bodypart per session and only trained 4 days per week.
I currently train 2-3 times a week depending on the week. I do 5 workouts over a two-week period and each body part is trained once every 8 days.
He had a back only day and a leg only day, so half his workouts were one bodypart. Skip Lacour had a program back in the mid-90's which was 5 days a week, back day, leg day, chest day, delt day and arm day, and that's basically how most pro's train nowadays.
Good for you that you can train just 2-3 days a week. I'd go nuts if I only trained 2-3 days a week.
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He had a back only day and a leg only day, so half his workouts were one bodypart. Skip Lacour had a program back in the mid-90's which was 5 days a week, back day, leg day, chest day, delt day and arm day, and that's basically how most pro's train nowadays.
Good for you that you can train just 2-3 days a week. I'd go nuts if I only trained 2-3 days a week.
Again, I don't see the logic. You claim that it is now common to do one bodypart per day starting with Yates then contradicting yourself and trying to ameliorate your position by a qualifying "Well, half his workouts were just one body part". Well, half is still not all.
I'd go nuts if I had to train five or six days a week. For me, there is far, far more to life than being in a gym. I have much more interest in life than just exercising.
My philosophy is probably the opposite of most on this board. I don't try to find the maximum amount of exercise and working out my body can endure but rather the absolute minimum amount that is needed.
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Source?
Static Contraction Training
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Not in my case, I dieted on low carb and looked like absolute shit, flat and stingy. I found through trial and error that I can't go below 200 carb grams a day, and if I do I get that shitty flat and stringy look.
same , look and feel much better with moderate carb intake , and more energy and better recovery time
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I only train one muscle group per day hell I have now separated Hamstrings into a separate stand alone day. I just rotate muscle groups each day if I am not recovered injured or busy I take a day or two off. I don't believe in complicated stuff I train in my basement so I keep it simple 2-3 exercises per workout. You can do just as many sets and reps with 2-3 exercises as you can with 5-7 exercises. I will try to change exercise every couple workouts to get more variety
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People are always claiming that Mentzer didn't train the way he exposed. He did so to make money. How exactly would he profit if you, I, or anybody else trained using his protocol? He didn't work for Nautilus and never profited from the sales. Why is it that people that make all these claims about how he trained never witnessed themselves what he actually did in the gym?
Why don't we ask Samir Bannout who actually trained with Mike?
&index=32
He didn't train at all the last 20 years of his life. He only lived to 49.
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Roger Schwab said he trained with Mentzer many times
He talks about it in this interview starting at ~ 35 minute mark
I think most people who've tried to follow his system found that it was unsustainable as a long term method of training
We also know now that it's not necessary to train to failure and beyond all the time...if ever, and volume does play a role in building muscle mass
Also, anyone who's been training for awhile knows that you need a certain amount of warming up and acclimation before you can effectively do a heavy set to failure (or close) on a compound exercise. I recall reading a few times that Mentzers joints were wrecked and he was literally not able to train the way he had in the past. When you compare him to someone like Lee Labrada who still looks incredible and you can see which approach makes more sense for most people
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Straw, we actually agree on something. Wonders never cease.
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Straw, we actually agree on something. Wonders never cease.
that's probably because you don't have an emotional, knee jerk reaction to this topic
If Fox News and other right wing media spent every day telling you the Mike Mentzer's methods were the best and only way to train you'd believe it
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Roger Schwab said he trained with Mentzer many times
He talks about it in this interview starting at ~ 35 minute mark
I think most people who've tried to follow his system found that it was unsustainable as a long term method of training
We also know now that it's not necessary to train to failure and beyond all the time...if ever and volume does play a role in building muscle mass
Also, anyone who's been training for awhile knows that you need a certain amount of warming up and acclimation before you can effectively do a heavy set to failure (or close) on a compound exercise. I recall reading a few times that Mentzers joints were wrecked and he was literally not able to train the way he had in the past. When you compare him to someone like Lee Labrada who still looks incredible and you can see which approach makes more sense for most people
You should do warms up on each and every exercise. The heavier the load used the longer you have to warm up. If you are benching 135 then you only need maybe 2 warm ups, but if you are benching 500 you need 5 or 6 warm ups.
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Mentzer re. genetics for bodybuilding
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Static Contraction Training
That is not a source. You gave me the name of something.
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Roger Schwab said he trained with Mentzer many times
He talks about it in this interview starting at ~ 35 minute mark
I think most people who've tried to follow his system found that it was unsustainable as a long term method of training
We also know now that it's not necessary to train to failure and beyond all the time...if ever, and volume does play a role in building muscle mass
Also, anyone who's been training for awhile knows that you need a certain amount of warming up and acclimation before you can effectively do a heavy set to failure (or close) on a compound exercise. I recall reading a few times that Mentzers joints were wrecked and he was literally not able to train the way he had in the past. When you compare him to someone like Lee Labrada who still looks incredible and you can see which approach makes more sense for most people
Mike himself has admitted that he didn't really know for sure if 100% intensity of effort was required. Maybe it's 95% or 85%, but how do you measure that? You can measure somewhat accurately zero effort and maximum effort but not anything in between just going by "feel". What was more important was progression. Trying to exceed your previous performance. Doing more weight or more reps. As long as you are working within your functional ability, doing what is already easy and possible, then you do little if anything to stimulate an adaptive response. If you do 8 reps of pull-ups and continue to just do 8 reps never trying for the 9th rep what has your body got to adapt to?
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That is not a source. You gave me the name of something.
You would have to buy the system that Tony Robbins endorsed with his program Get The Edge:7 Day Program To Transform Your Life. It was produced in the year 2000. Robbins had a long interview with Sisco & Little where they made ridiculous claims.
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You would have to buy the system that Tony Robbins endorsed with his program Get The Edge:7 Day Program To Transform Your Life. It was produced in the year 2000. Robbins had a long interview with Sisco & Little where they made ridiculous claims.
Hah! I remember Tony Robbins from back in the 80s at UCLA. He was peddling some class about positive thinking or something along those lines and at the end of the class, he got everyone to walk on hot coals as proof of his theories. He gave you some phrase you had to keep repeating while walking as it will put your body in the proper state (or an excuse if you burn your feet that you didn't recite it right). I was a physics student at the time and knew it was just a trick walked over it effortlessly making the mistake of chanting, "I believe in science." Tony claimed I was using the same principles as he was just substituted "science" for his God.
But he's done very, very well. A real leader and an inspirational speaker. Good for him. I'm legit jealous.
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You would have to buy the system that Tony Robbins endorsed with his program Get The Edge:7 Day Program To Transform Your Life. It was produced in the year 2000. Robbins had a long interview with Sisco & Little where they made ridiculous claims.
It's not all here, but here's some stuff they did with Robbins -
1 -
.
2 -
.
Robbins now -
.
John Little's rebranding -
.
There's elements of HIT, Super Slow, and even Isometrics in there.
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It's not all here, but here's some stuff they did with Robbins -
1 -
.
2 -
.
Robbins now -
.
John Little's rebranding -
.
There's elements of HIT, Super Slow, and even Isometrics in there.
Thank. I'll check it out. I remember when I went through my "Super Slow" phase.
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Thanks BB.
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Train hard, eat well, take steroids and you grow
Gains come from hard work, consistency, lifting heavy, not fancy training programs
In what order should Getbiggers do the above?
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In what order should Getbiggers do the above?
For us, it's not so much a matter of the order but of the number of times each component is performed. Drugs are just the finishing touche' for Getbiggers...
;D ;D
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For us, it's not so much a matter of the order but of the number of times each component is performed. Drugs are just the finishing touche' for Getbiggers...
;D ;D
True getbiggers look amazing without drugs. It's just the final 5%.
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Mentzer had some interesting ideas on nutrition. Not that I agree on all of them but still.
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Should Mentzer have won the 1980 Olympia? 13 of the competitors casted their votes...
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Tony Robbins has hella GH jaw, haha.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOoOfLvUwAAt127.jpg)
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Tony Robbins has hella GH jaw, haha.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOoOfLvUwAAt127.jpg)
He has an excess of GH because of a tumor on his pituitary gland. It's also why he grew so tall.
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Robbins has a Doctorate of Bullsh*tting.
Fantastic salesman.
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Here's another one from Mr. Perfect Score.
Life advice from Mike Mentzer. Re. transcending and becoming better more put together person 8)
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What happened to StrawIdiot who started this thread? Did he go the way of Mike Mentzer?
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Mike Mentzer was great but he was no Arnold
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Robbins has a Doctorate of Bullsh*tting.
Fantastic salesman.
NLP works.
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Mike seemed to have well average IQ, he was more handsome and rugged then the Arnold, as a native, much better vocabulary and grasp of the language, but Arnold was at least as smart as he was and posessed phenomenal social skills and mental stability.
Arnold was too much for Mike, too bad he couldn't grasp that.
Arnold was a highly all-around gifted person with perfect bodybuilding genetics who pursued bodybuilding, there is no other example.
There were good looking, smart, charismatic, driven bodybuilders but Arnold was the only one all combined.
Arnold's greatness is, he made it seem easy, he made his roles look easy, he made being a guest to a late night show and look not silly when the very smart and seen it all host wanted to make fool of you easy.
When I look Arnold, his "once" greatness makes me feel depressed >:(
It should be very frusturating for Mentzer, he was a demigod in bodybuilding circles and he had every right to become the successor of Arnold bodybuilding wise but he missed mental aspect of it.
I guess it wouldn't be possible to sell bodybuilding to mainstream without being as easygoing and witty as Arnold.
Joe Weider being as smart and cunning as he is, failed miserably with his too serious approach, Ben Weider was even worse, "wannabe Jewish aristocrat :'("
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Mike seemed to have well average IQ, he was more handsome and rugged then the Arnold, as a native, much better vocabulary and grasp of the language, but Arnold was at least as smart as he was and posessed phenomenal social skills and mental stability.
Arnold was too much for Mike, too bad he couldn't grasp that.
Arnold was a highly all-around gifted person with perfect bodybuilding genetics who pursued bodybuilding, there is no other example.
There were good looking, smart, charismatic, driven bodybuilders but Arnold was the only one all combined.
Arnold's greatness is, he made it seem easy, he made his roles look easy, he made being a guest to a late night show and look not silly when the very smart and seen it all host wanted to make fool of you easy.
When I look Arnold, his "once" greatness makes me feel depressed >:(
It should be very frusturating for Mentzer, he was a demigod in bodybuilding circles and he had every right to become the successor of Arnold bodybuilding wise but he missed mental aspect of it.
I guess it wouldn't be possible to sell bodybuilding to mainstream without being as easygoing and witty as Arnold.
Joe Weider being as smart and cunning as he is, failed miserably with his too serious approach, Ben Weider was even worse, "wannabe Jewish aristocrat :'("
Mike wasn't nearly as smart as he and his fans seem to think.
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Mike wasn't nearly as smart as he and his fans seem to think.
I can speculate Arnold is 2 standart deviations above avarage which is 130 and over, combined with high EQ and work ethic he could easily toy with Mentzer.
Mentzer's vocabulary and his untapped potential to be medical student suggests me he was an intelligent person, but intelligence alone doesn't take you far, especially if you are unstable and lack resilience as Mentzer.
I recall reading Lance Dreher once suggested he will be a greater bodybuilder than Arnold,
Dreher has one of the very best arms of all time, he has amazing torso (he lacked height though)
He was humbled not much later, Dreher seems like a smart fellow, but I guess he wasn't consumed with his dreams of grandeur as the late Menzter, lucky for him, he moved on.
Tom Platz also wanted to imitate Arnold, he was charismatic, likeable, and marketable, but Arnold is really one in a billion person, not a person you would want to compare yourself with.
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Mike seemed to me to be the true superstar of bodybuilding as he had the looks and interesting ideas.
Putting his ideas into practice did not really work for me but I will always fondly remember reading his books.
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Mike seemed to have well average IQ, he was more handsome and rugged then the Arnold, as a native, much better vocabulary and grasp of the language, but Arnold was at least as smart as he was and posessed phenomenal social skills and mental stability.
Arnold was too much for Mike, too bad he couldn't grasp that.
Arnold was a highly all-around gifted person with perfect bodybuilding genetics who pursued bodybuilding, there is no other example.
There were good looking, smart, charismatic, driven bodybuilders but Arnold was the only one all combined.
Arnold's greatness is, he made it seem easy, he made his roles look easy, he made being a guest to a late night show and look not silly when the very smart and seen it all host wanted to make fool of you easy.
When I look Arnold, his "once" greatness makes me feel depressed >:(
It should be very frusturating for Mentzer, he was a demigod in bodybuilding circles and he had every right to become the successor of Arnold bodybuilding wise but he missed mental aspect of it.
I guess it wouldn't be possible to sell bodybuilding to mainstream without being as easygoing and witty as Arnold.
Joe Weider being as smart and cunning as he is, failed miserably with his too serious approach, Ben Weider was even worse, "wannabe Jewish aristocrat :'("
They are polar opposite personality types. Mentzer was introspective and introverted. He had few friends and prefered having it that way. Only befriending select few. And he was more interested in ideas.
Arnold was a people person. Non-introspective I'd say really, but intelligent yes. Making many friends and connections along the way. Ego- and success driven. Strong drive in general. And ofcourse, incredible genetics for both body and looks. This combination took him a long way.
This is why Dorian also didn't like Arnold, he was more like Mentzer in his personality.
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They are polar opposite personality types. Mentzer was introspective and introverted. He had few friends and prefered having it that way. Only befriending select few. And he was more interested in ideas.
Arnold was a people person. Non-introspective I'd say really, but intelligent yes. Making many friends and connections along the way. Ego- and success driven. Strong drive in general. And ofcourse, incredible genetics for both body and looks. This combination took him a long way.
This is why Dorian also didn't like Arnold, he was more like Mentzer in his personality.
Very well put, thanks.
Arnold as outgoing and showy as he was, also had a special ability to connect with people and able to cultivate life long relations, I don't think he was a user and manipulator as people made him to be.
He had it all but still have all the time for his fans, he enjoys human contact, not only for the sake of adulation, he genuinely enjoys interacting with people.
He is a textbook extrovert, like self sustaining reactor, he re-energizes with human contact. His social schedule would burnout a normal soul, let alone an introvert.
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I can speculate Arnold is 2 standart deviations above avarage which is 130 and over, combined with high EQ and work ethic he could easily toy with Mentzer.
Mentzer's vocabulary and his untapped potential to be medical student suggests me he was an intelligent person, but intelligence alone doesn't take you far, especially if you are unstable and lack resilience as Mentzer.
I recall reading Lance Dreher once suggested he will be a greater bodybuilder than Arnold,
Dreher has one of the very best arms of all time, he has amazing torso (he lacked height though)
He was humbled not much later, Dreher seems like a smart fellow, but I guess he wasn't consumed with his dreams of grandeur as the late Menzter, lucky for him, he moved on.
Tom Platz also wanted to imitate Arnold, he was charismatic, likeable, and marketable, but Arnold is really one in a billion person, not a person you would want to compare yourself with.
The fact that Mentzer believed HIT was a far superior way of training against all scientific evidence is proof he wasn't very smart. He was a pseudo intellectual person who thought speaking of philosophy and science made him smart. He dropped out of med school but even if he graduated it wouldn't have proven anything as there are dumb doctors.
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A true account of Mentzer.
"I met Mentzer around 1979-80 while I was in high school. He was really ascending the BB hierarchy and becoming a big deal. He had just won one of those early ‘Night of Champions’ contest.
He appeared at a local sporting goods store, not sure exactly what his reasons (read contractual obligations) were but he appeared in athletic shorts and a ‘Weider’ T-shirt. There was a relatively big group there and he took questions. Someone asked him to ‘flex’ and he did a front double bi with his t-shirt on.
They asked if he would take his t-shirt off and he said “they are not paying me enough to do that”. I asked him how big his legs were and he said “big” (I was expecting a measurement). At the conclusion as he walked out he muttered “I gotta get out of this town”. He acted like he did not want to be there, never smiled that I could recall.
I had heard from the mags that he was arrogant and my conclusion from having met him was that he was. He was not particularly warm to those who came to see him.
In contrast I met Franco Columbu about the same time also at a sporting goods store. It was right after he retireed and after his biography ‘Coming On Strong’ came out. It was also after he retired and after he trashed his knee in the World’s Strongest Man contest.
He was in Street clothes and people asked him to take his shirt off and pose. Franco was very reluctanct, not because he was not being paid, but because he was so out of shape but he obliged and was very gracious. They then asked him to do a feat of strength so they assembled one of those really crappy multi-benches and loaded 350 on the bar. Franco pumped out 20 reps on the bench without a warmup! People loved him."
Mentzer really was a sorry loser.
I see John Little is still milking Mentzer's name for whatever it's worth...and that's not much.
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I met Mentzer when I was about eighteen or nineteen I think.....asked him how he trained and all he said was "I had the right parents".
I thought to myself what a weird dude as I had no idea at that time about genetics as far as bodybuilding was concerned.
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Arnold is Numero Uno.
As stated above, one in a billion.
It's unlikely there will ever be another Arnold. It goes beyond just bodybuilding.
On top of his amazing reaction to drugs, he is a classic sociopath.
Mentzer was emotionally fragile.
Mentzer was hyped as the next big thing by the mags, key word "hyped".
Comparing Arnold to Mentzer is like comparing a Hall of Fame player to a 2nd stringer.
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Where’s Mike now? I haven’t seen him in the magazine lately
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Where’s Mike now? I haven’t seen him in the magazine lately
Changed his identity and now living in Dubai, India.
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Just watched a vid the other day. Some low level bodybuilder / drug dealer who used to live and train with mentzer in the late 80's claims Mike was gay. Said Mike loved meth and hated training but continued to train people to afford his drug habbit. Larry something or other. Seemed like a sleazy dude, talks about going to prison, but apparently was Mikes roommate when mike was about at his lowest. Was paying mikes rent and chauffeuring him around so that Mike would train him.
Funny how some people revere Mentzer almost like he was mythological. Then others....not so much.
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Mentzer was an amphetamine addict is a fact.
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Mentzer was an amphetamine addict is a fact.
Sad
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Warning, guys...this will be a long post. Skip if you have a low attention span ;)
Just watched a vid the other day. Some low level bodybuilder / drug dealer who used to live and train with mentzer in the late 80's claims Mike was gay. Said Mike loved meth and hated training but continued to train people to afford his drug habbit. Larry something or other. Seemed like a sleazy dude, talks about going to prison, but apparently was Mikes roommate when mike was about at his lowest. Was paying mikes rent and chauffeuring him around so that Mike would train him.
Funny how some people revere Mentzer almost like he was mythological. Then others....not so much.
Larry Pollock?
This is the interview:
The poor guy talking to Larry is dumber than a sack of doorknobs, but the things Pollock told him are interesting:
*The workouts he did with Mike were almost identical to the routine outlined in the '92 edition of _Heavy Duty_. The primary difference was every work set was taken to positive failure, followed by forced reps until negative failure. He said Mike transformed from skinny-fat to pro size within two or three months. Choice of AAS?
I can't remember, and I'm not watching that whole shit show again...if I hear the dummy host say "Woooow!" one more time, I will stab myself into Sto'Vo'Kor. However, I know Mike LOVED Deca.
*Yes, Mike wouldn't train unless amped up on amphetamines. He basically admitted that himself in other articles. Ell Darden said he never saw Mike train, or train hard (?), during the time Mike and Ray were in Jones' employ at Nautilus.
*The gay thing? I don't know about all that. He had girlfriends, and from what I'm told, they weren't just beards. Maybe his meth habit twisted his mind such that he'd take it in the jaw for a fix? I dunno, but I kind of doubt it.
See, what a lot of people don't know about Mike is that he enjoyed trolling others about his mental state, possibly especially when high and/or drunk (he loved vodka).
For example, when I was in my mid to late teens, I'd followed his '92 HD routine to the letter. I actually made great gains and won the teenage class of a local NPC show, the Tri-county, drug-free. I wanted to step up to the open class and knew I would either have to up my training game or forget about the natural schtick.
The older bodybuilders at my gym, including an NPC state champ (name rhymes with Podney Launders), all told me no: stay natural, just keep training -- yadda yadda.
About that time, Mentzer was published in FLEX, writing about rest-pause training, static contractions and so forth. I naively thought those "secrets" were my magic pill!
In my excitement, I called the phone number listed at the end of Mike's articles.
The first time he answered, he identified himself as "Wood Jones," and said he'd take a message for me.
The second time I called, he launched into this weird bit about "who created the 'heavenly bodies,'" namely, Arnold and Claudia Schiffer. He went on to say Arthur Jones was God and had "turned a man into a whale" at Jones' Ocala facility.
He also asked me if I was "hung," whereupon I scoffed and asked him if he was queer.
He laughed and said, I quote, "No, but I am a little odd."
In fairness, I was trying to glean advice from him sans any cost to myself; he saw that and tried to run me off by acting weird. Just the same, he said similarly weird shit to Lee Priest about "Art Jones is a god," and I've known a few other guys who said he'd do bizarre shit to extricate himself from conversations.
I had further conversations with him much later, talks in which he was lucid, no longer bitter about the '80 Olympia ("water under the bridge," he said) and, while he came to ridiculous conclusions about training, he himself wanted Marcus Reinhardt to train *him* for a comeback.
While that's both laughable and sad at the same time -- Mike, near death, thinking about training again -- it says something that he'd put such confidence in Marcus who, albeit a HIT guy, advocates plenty more work than Mike's latter day methods.
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Warning, guys...this will be a long post. Skip if you have a low attention span ;)
Larry Pollock?
This is the interview:
The poor guy talking to Larry is dumber than a sack of doorknobs, but the things Pollock told him are interesting:
*The workouts he did with Mike were almost identical to the routine outlined in the '92 edition of _Heavy Duty_. The primary difference was every work set was taken to positive failure, followed by forced reps until negative failure. He said Mike transformed from skinny-fat to pro size within two or three months. Choice of AAS?
I can't remember, and I'm not watching that whole shit show again...if I hear the dummy host say "Woooow!" one more time, I will stab myself into Sto'Vo'Kor. However, I know Mike LOVED Deca.
*Yes, Mike wouldn't train unless amped up on amphetamines. He basically admitted that himself in other articles. Ell Darden said he never saw Mike train, or train hard (?), during the time Mike and Ray were in Jones' employ at Nautilus.
*The gay thing? I don't know about all that. He had girlfriends, and from what I'm told, they weren't just beards. Maybe his meth habit twisted his mind such that he'd take it in the jaw for a fix? I dunno, but I kind of doubt it.
See, what a lot of people don't know about Mike is that he enjoyed trolling others about his mental state, possibly especially when high and/or drunk (he loved vodka).
For example, when I was in my mid to late teens, I'd followed his '92 HD routine to the letter. I actually made great gains and won the teenage class of a local NPC show, the Tri-county, drug-free. I wanted to step up to the open class and knew I would either have to up my training game or forget about the natural schtick.
The older bodybuilders at my gym, including an NPC state champ (name rhymes with Podney Launders), all told me no: stay natural, just keep training -- yadda yadda.
About that time, Mentzer was published in FLEX, writing about rest-pause training, static contractions and so forth. I naively thought those "secrets" were my magic pill!
In my excitement, I called the phone number listed at the end of Mike's articles.
The first time he answered, he identified himself as "Wood Jones," and said he'd take a message for me.
The second time I called, he launched into this weird bit about "who created the 'heavenly bodies,'" namely, Arnold and Claudia Schiffer. He went on to say Arthur Jones was God and had "turned a man into a whale" at Jones' Ocala facility.
He also asked me if I was "hung," whereupon I scoffed and asked him if he was queer.
He laughed and said, I quote, "No, but I am a little odd."
In fairness, I was trying to glean advice from him sans any cost to myself; he saw that and tried to run me off by acting weird. Just the same, he said similarly weird shit to Lee Priest about "Art Jones is a god," and I've known a few other guys who said he'd do bizarre shit to extricate himself from conversations.
I had further conversations with him much later, talks in which he was lucid, no longer bitter about the '80 Olympia ("water under the bridge," he said) and, while he came to ridiculous conclusions about training, he himself wanted Marcus Reinhardt to train *him* for a comeback.
While that's both laughable and sad at the same time -- Mike, near death, thinking about training again -- it says something that he'd put such confidence in Marcus who, albeit a HIT guy, advocates plenty more work than Mike's latter day methods.
Interesting. Neat story about calling Mike.
Thats the guy I was talking about. Larry Pollock. Different interview but same guy.
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Did Mike suck cawk with high intensity?
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speaking of sex appeal
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I met Mentzer when I was about eighteen or nineteen I think.....asked him how he trained and all he said was "I had the right parents".
I thought to myself what a weird dude as I had no idea at that time about genetics as far as bodybuilding was concerned.
speaking of genetics
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Warning, guys...this will be a long post. Skip if you have a low attention span ;)
Larry Pollock?
This is the interview:
Just listened to this. Man, you aren't kidding that kid doing the interview sounds like a fucking retard.
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Did Mike suck cawk with high intensity?
Yes he did
To failure
Total failure
With negatives and forced reps afterwards...
*shiver*
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Yes he did
To failure
Total failure
With negatives and forced reps afterwards...
*shiver*
Those workouts sound very draining.
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One of the biggest disappointments ever was when I first hit Gold's Venice in the late 80s and saw Mentzer. Like, "Is that Mike Mentzer?" He looked sloppy in body and dress.
I'm sure many others have a simlar tale.
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Yes he did
To failure
Total failure
With negatives and forced reps afterwards...
*shiver*
;D
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Mentzer was an amphetamine addict is a fact.
Wasn't he an alcoholic as well?
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Wasn't he an alcoholic as well?
Not so much. Definitely a crack head, chained smoked, ate bad food, stopped training due to laziness. A big time loser.
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Not so much. Definitely a crack head, chained smoked, ate bad food, stopped training due to laziness. A big time loser.
But always talked about living a life led by reason and logic. ::)
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They are polar opposite personality types. Mentzer was introspective and introverted. He had few friends and prefered having it that way. Only befriending select few. And he was more interested in ideas.
Arnold was a people person. Non-introspective I'd say really, but intelligent yes. Making many friends and connections along the way. Ego- and success driven. Strong drive in general. And ofcourse, incredible genetics for both body and looks. This combination took him a long way.
This is why Dorian also didn't like Arnold, he was more like Mentzer in his personality.
Arnold's soclal intelligence is incredible, Meztzer's was below average and that's the diff
Mentzer's general iq was very high, but there are 7 kinds of intelligence including musical and bodily (athletic abiltity)
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But always talked about living a life led by reason and logic. ::)
Yep. Mentzer talked the talk but could never walk the walk.
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Mike Mentzer was one of the most overrated bodybuilders of the last 40 years.
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Not so much. Definitely a crack head, chained smoked, ate bad food, stopped training due to laziness. A big time loser.
Oh, he drank a lot. As I said, through my conversations with him, the dude loved vodka!
Crackhead, though? Naw. Speed freak, yes. He admitted that he was hooked on amphetamines "to be productive," but was adamant that he never smoked meth (odd, since he chain-smoked filterless Camels).
He might have been lying, but I don't think so. He really believed that his "consolidation routine" was THE way for advanced bodybuilders to train.
He was way off course, but I dunno that I'd call him overrated as a bodybuilder. Winning the Universe and tying for fourth place in a controversial Olympia is no bad resume (let's face it: even a subpar Arnold was too much for the rest, but should Chris and Frank have beat Mike? Probably not).
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Oh, he drank a lot. As I said, through my conversations with him, the dude loved vodka!
Crackhead, though? Naw. Speed freak, yes. He admitted that he was hooked on amphetamines "to be productive," but was adamant that he never smoked meth (odd, since he chain-smoked filterless Camels).
He might have been lying, but I don't think so. He really believed that his "consolidation routine" was THE way for advanced bodybuilders to train.
He was way off course, but I dunno that I'd call him overrated as a bodybuilder. Winning the Universe and tying for fourth place in a controversial Olympia is no bad resume (let's face it: even a subpar Arnold was too much for the rest, but should Chris and Frank have beat Mike? Probably not).
Of course they should have beaten mentzer. He looked awful. The true fix of 1980 was mentzer placing 5th instead of placing a lot lower.
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Of course they should have best mentzet. He looked awful. The true fix of 1980 was mentzer placing 5th instead of placing a lot lower.
Roger Walker definitely should have finished above Mentzer as well as everyone that did finish higher.
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No argument about Roger Walker. He was huge in that show!
However, I still don't think Zane or Dickerson should've necessarily placed ahead of Mike. Frank looked drawn, thin and flat, and Chris was shredded but had pathetic biceps, droopy pecs and was just *small*. Mike takes them in the front biceps and side poses without question, IMO. Front lat, I'm unsure -- probably Frank, then Mike, then Chris. Ab/thigh, I'd favor Mentzer again: better abs than Chris, and better legs than Frank.
Chris and Frank ought to take the rear biceps, though. The asymmetry in Mentzer's upper back/lower-trap region was always a weakness. And yes, his rear lat wasn't good (seems like they all lacked in that pose), but I don't know if the other two were any better.
But again, by no metric I can imagine Mentzer beating Arnold. That's every whiny HITer revisionists' history of the event. And some other guys probably deserved to whip Mike in that show. I just don't see that a smaller than usual Zane and ripped but highly flawed Chris were among them, that's all.
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No argument about Roger Walker. He was huge in that show!
However, I still don't think Zane or Dickerson should've necessarily placed ahead of Mike. Frank looked drawn, thin and flat, and Chris was shredded but had pathetic biceps, droopy pecs and was just *small*. Mike takes them in the front biceps and side poses without question, IMO. Front lat, I'm unsure -- probably Frank, then Mike, then Chris. Ab/thigh, I'd favor Mentzer again: better abs than Chris, and better legs than Frank.
Chris and Frank ought to take the rear biceps, though. The asymmetry in Mentzer's upper back/lower-trap region was always a weakness. And yes, his rear lat wasn't good (seems like they all lacked in that pose), but I don't know if the other two were any better.
But again, by no metric I can imagine Mentzer beating Arnold. That's every whiny HITer revisionists' history of the event. And some other guys probably deserved to whip Mike in that show. I just don't see that a smaller than usual Zane and ripped but highly flawed Chris were among them, that's all.
The Mentzer fanboys are a cult.
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The Mentzer fanboys are a cult.
Yes, I know. Apparently their new Messiah is John Little.
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Yes, I know. Apparently their new Messiah is John Little.
Pretty sure my comments are banned on his Youtube channel. They show up for me but no one ever responds even when I ask direct questions. They are true believers.
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Yes, I know. Apparently their new Messiah is John Little.
John Little the liar who was once Mentzer's secret gay lover.
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Pretty sure my comments are banned on his Youtube channel. They show up for me but no one ever responds even when I ask direct questions. They are true believers.
Yep. Same with me. I've asked Little for actual evidence of Mentzer's theories actually working and Little couldn't provide any. All he does is upload videos of Mentzer who regurgitates Ayn Rand nonsense and the hitters are in awe of all this bs. The comments in the vids from the mentzer cult are hilarious and delusional. Most claiming that mentzer was a genuis and "ahead of his time" even though exercise science disproves mentzer's flawed theories. Little and the mentzer cult are still stuck in the 70's.
Little is a typical hitter who has to try and revise the facts to suit his ideology. He once even lied about Steve Reeves claiming that Reeves tried the hit one set to failure and gained an additional 30 pounds of muscle. Ridiculous. There's no evidence to back up Little's claims. Little also likes to believe that the Colorado Scam was legit.
Little is a coward though, he doesn't like to be called out on his bs and quickly bans anyone that provides actual facts that dismisses his deluded belief in hit.
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Yep. Same with me. I've asked Little for actual evidence of Mentzer's theories actually working and Little couldn't provide any. All he does is upload videos of Mentzer who regurgitates Ayn Rand nonsense and the hitters are in awe of all this bs. The comments in the vids from the mentzer cult are hilarious and delusional. Most claiming that mentzer was a genuis and "ahead of his time" even though exercise science disproves mentzer's flawed theories. Lityle and the mentzer cult are still stuck in the 70's.
Little is a typical hitter who has to try and revise the facts to suit his ideology. He once even lied about Steve Reeves claiming that Reeves tried the hit one set to failure and gained an additional 30 pounds of muscle. Ridiculous. There's no evidence yo back up Little's claims. Little also likes to believe that the Colorado Scam was legit.
Little is a coward though, he doesn't like to be called out on his bs and quickly bans anyone that provides actual facts that dismisses his deluded belief in hit.
I actually linked some studies proving HIT is not as effective as other training systems and it got everyone over there in a tizzie and since then my comments get nothing. I call it (s)HIT training. 20 years ago I actually trained like that and after lots of experience going nowhere dropped it.
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I actually linked some studies proving HIT is not as effective as other training systems and it got everyone over there in a tizzie and since then my comments get nothing. I call it (s)HIT training. 20 years ago I actually trained like that and after lots of experience going nowhere dropped it.
Yep. Hitters can't handle actual facts about hit and mentzer. Little will quickly block anyone if they challenge his beliefs with actual real world facts. His whole channel is just a mentzer echo chamber. The commentary their are just pure mentzer worship and they won't have a bad word said about that dead con man.
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More John Little bs. I could debunk Little easily if he wasn't afraid to debate...because he knows he would lose. Just check out the comments by the hit cultists from this vid. They're hilarious due to their delusions.
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It's funny how Mentzer describes volume trainers in that video exactly as Mentzer fan boys actually are today.
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the way he trained in the late 70s is today's actual volume training LOL
he did 3-6 sets til failure per muscle group twice a week
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Yes, I know. Apparently their new Messiah is John Little.
It's actually a bit sad. He's the worlds foremost mentzer historian. Meaning he collects everything he possibly can about a burnt out bodybuilding drug addict turned homeless mentally ill drug addict.
He talks about mentzer as if everything mentzer said should be engraved on a stone tablet.
If I were a betting man Id wager that little has at least one of mentzers posing trunks encased in glass. He really does come across that pathetic.
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I remember watching Mike, Ray and Casey training at Gold's and they trained the way they had claimed to in the magazines. It was brutal.
I was caught up in it back in the 70s because I was spending hours in the gym and wanted more of a life outside it (I would later get that by chucking all my magazines and going back to school and working toward getting better and better employement).
It kinda worked for a very short period but then I stagnated. In retrospect, it was like "Dinosaur Training" in that I enjoyed it but when I bought his final book and did it exactly as outlined I beat myself up so badly that it took a week or more to recover from a 10 or so minute session of maybe three total sets. And I still didn't get the results I expected. And then my little pea brain figured it out...
Steroids. Lots of steroids. Mike himself admitted as much in an interview years ago when asked if he took steroids he replied (paraphrased), "Oh yeah! Tons of 'em!".
Any form of training works when you have sufficient steroidal "assistance". If I had taken a few Dianabol I really think I would have experienced tremendous muscular growth and increased strength across the board. I know because I knew several friends that took Dianabol and they said it was fantastic.
Menzter wasn't dumb but he was ultimately delusional and that was most likely due to firstly his steroid use, which made him believe he was a genetic marvel. The second factor in this equation was his use of amphetamines which I think fried his mind. My youngest brother had been a meth addict and that shit will turn your mind to SHIT.
In summation I think that Mentzer was right in his earliest training outline for "Heavy Duty" (more so when taking steroids) and later after his mind literally prolapsed from amphetamines and he could only recall his results when on steroids and subsequently went further off the reservation and finally jumped off the pier, if you will.
Training is NOT rocket science. If it were then that would explain all those silly supplement advertisements with bodybuilders wearing lab coats...LOL!
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I remember watching Mike, Ray and Casey training at Gold's and they trained the way they had claimed to in the magazines. It was brutal.
I was caught up in it back in the 70s because I was spending hours in the gym and wanted more of a life outside it (I would later get that by chucking all my magazines and going back to school and working toward getting better and better employement).
It kinda worked for a very short period but then I stagnated. In retrospect, it was like "Dinosaur Training" in that I enjoyed it but when I bought his final book and did it exactly as outlined I beat myself up so badly that it took a week or more to recover from a 10 or so minute session of maybe three total sets. And I still didn't get the results I expected. And then my little pea brain figured it out...
Steroids. Lots of steroids. Mike himself admitted as much in an interview years ago when asked if he took steroids he replied (paraphrased), "Oh yeah! Tons of 'em!".
Any form of training works when you have sufficient steroidal "assistance". If I had taken a few Dianabol I really think I would have experienced tremendous muscular growth and increased strength across the board. I know because I knew several friends that took Dianabol and they said it was fantastic.
Menzter wasn't dumb but he was ultimately delusional and that was most likely due to firstly his steroid use, which made him believe he was a genetic marvel. The second factor in this equation was his use of amphetamines which I think fried his mind. My youngest brother had been a meth addict and that shit will turn your mind to SHIT.
In summation I think that Mentzer was right in his earliest training outline for "Heavy Duty" (more so when taking steroids) and later after his mind literally prolapsed from amphetamines and he could only recall his results when on steroids and subsequently went further off the reservation and finally jumped off the pier, if you will.
Training is NOT rocket science. If it were then that would explain all those silly supplement advertisements with bodybuilders wearing lab coats...LOL!
Mike was a psychology student who dropped out. Basic arts degree. He never went to med school. He claimed Heavy Duty was fact but it wasn't since Mike had not performed any scientific studies, never proved anything. If training 15 minutes every 5 or 7 days got the best results wouldn't everyone be doing it? Why is Heavy Duty ineffective?
1) Training to failure and beyond is detrimental. Most people can't recover and fade over time look and feel much worse.
2) Not enough volume.
3) Not enough frequency of hitting muscles.
4) Not enough rest between sets.
Mike was out to make a buck. He lied constantly about his clients gaining 30lbs of muscles in a few months and increasing strength levels by absurd amounts. He did sound convincing. At some point I went with the research but I believed parts of his BS for a long time.
Don't waste your time with Heavy Duty.
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:)
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Training is NOT rocket science. If it were then that would explain all those silly supplement advertisements with bodybuilders wearing lab coats...LOL!
True but the science sure helps. We can look so deep into what is happening in the body these days. Takes all the guess work out.
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I remember watching Mike, Ray and Casey training at Gold's and they trained the way they had claimed to in the magazines. It was brutal.
I was caught up in it back in the 70s because I was spending hours in the gym and wanted more of a life outside it (I would later get that by chucking all my magazines and going back to school and working toward getting better and better employement).
It kinda worked for a very short period but then I stagnated. In retrospect, it was like "Dinosaur Training" in that I enjoyed it but when I bought his final book and did it exactly as outlined I beat myself up so badly that it took a week or more to recover from a 10 or so minute session of maybe three total sets. And I still didn't get the results I expected. And then my little pea brain figured it out...
Steroids. Lots of steroids. Mike himself admitted as much in an interview years ago when asked if he took steroids he replied (paraphrased), "Oh yeah! Tons of 'em!".
Any form of training works when you have sufficient steroidal "assistance". If I had taken a few Dianabol I really think I would have experienced tremendous muscular growth and increased strength across the board. I know because I knew several friends that took Dianabol and they said it was fantastic.
Menzter wasn't dumb but he was ultimately delusional and that was most likely due to firstly his steroid use, which made him believe he was a genetic marvel. The second factor in this equation was his use of amphetamines which I think fried his mind. My youngest brother had been a meth addict and that shit will turn your mind to SHIT.
In summation I think that Mentzer was right in his earliest training outline for "Heavy Duty" (more so when taking steroids) and later after his mind literally prolapsed from amphetamines and he could only recall his results when on steroids and subsequently went further off the reservation and finally jumped off the pier, if you will.
Training is NOT rocket science. If it were then that would explain all those silly supplement advertisements with bodybuilders wearing lab coats...LOL!
The Greeks and Romans knew how to build muscle thousands of years ago.
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:)
Odd. I don't recall anyone referring to Jos as the Master Blaster outside of his own publication's M&F and Flex.
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Odd. I don't recall anyone referring to Jos as the Master Blaster outside of his own publication's M&F and Flex.
Sounds like a porn star's name.
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Mike was a psychology student who dropped out. Basic arts degree. He never went to med school. He claimed Heavy Duty was fact but it wasn't since Mike had not performed any scientific studies, never proved anything. If training 15 minutes every 5 or 7 days got the best results wouldn't everyone be doing it? Why is Heavy Duty ineffective?
1) Training to failure and beyond is detrimental. Most people can't recover and fade over time look and feel much worse.
2) Not enough volume.
3) Not enough frequency of hitting muscles.
4) Not enough rest between sets.
Mike was out to make a buck. He lied constantly about his clients gaining 30lbs of muscles in a few months and increasing strength levels by absurd amounts. He did sound convincing. At some point I went with the research but I believed parts of his BS for a long time.
Don't waste your time with Heavy Duty.
but didnt arnold train to failure? quote
The last three or four reps is what makes the muscle grow. This area of pain divides the champion from someone else who is not a champion. That's what most people lack, having the guts to go on and just say they'll go through the pain no matter what happens
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the way he trained in the late 70s is today's actual volume training LOL
he did 3-6 sets til failure per muscle group twice a week
he trained pretty correctly here
each muscle was trained twice a week and 6-12 work sets per muscle per week
big mike isrealtel APPROVED!!!
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but didnt arnold train to failure? quote
The last three or four reps is what makes the muscle grow. This area of pain divides the champion from someone else who is not a champion. That's what most people lack, having the guts to go on and just say they'll go through the pain no matter what happens
Arnold didn't train to failure most of the time. You don't see him failing and then some spotters yanking weights off him. Most sets he has a couple of reps left. His main training partner Franco published to always stop 2 reps from failure and leave some in reserve. If you are on a ton of gear you can train any method and gain.
Training is real simple, make adjustments based on reality. Get out some tape, measure your bodyparts. Look at the bodyfat. Where is your strength at? What is your mood like? Is your appetite strong? What is going on with your sleep? Can you outlift the majority of gym members who don't know what they are doing by a good margin?
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It kinda worked for a very short period but then I stagnated. In retrospect, it was like "Dinosaur Training" in that I enjoyed it but when I bought his final book and did it exactly as outlined I beat myself up so badly that it took a week or more to recover from a 10 or so minute session of maybe three total sets. And I still didn't get the results I expected. And then my little pea brain figured it out...
Steroids. Lots of steroids. Mike himself admitted as much in an interview years ago when asked if he took steroids he replied (paraphrased), "Oh yeah! Tons of 'em!".
I thought I discovered the Holy Grail when I read Mentzer on the sundeck of my parent's home more than 30 years ago. The man was an amazing writer. I quit his Heavy Duty training within a few months and started tweaking it around. I was getting weaker, looking worse. I kept some of his training principles like training to failure for many more years. It wasn't until I threw everything out and started analyzing every muscle study I could find (hundreds), that I train the way I do today.
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Mike original workout "Heavy Duty" was full body three days a week with about 5 sets per BP so about 15 sets a week which is nothing like the insane routines he's was advocating in the years before he died
The worst of his training ideas was that you had to train to failure and beyond as the ONLY way to build muscle
If you weren't going to failure and beyond it was pointless to even be working out and you might as well stay home and jerk off
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Arnold didn't train to failure most of the time. You don't see him failing and then some spotters yanking weights off him. Most sets he has a couple of reps left. His main training partner Franco published to always stop 2 reps from failure and leave some in reserve. If you are on a ton of gear you can train any method and gain.
Training is real simple, make adjustments based on reality. Get out some tape, measure your bodyparts. Look at the bodyfat. Where is your strength at? What is your mood like? Is your appetite strong? What is going on with your sleep? Can you outlift the majority of gym members who don't know what they are doing by a good margin?
Then how do we know what training systems work when i do beleive your statement that you can take gear and train any method and you will still gain weight?
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Then how do we know what training systems work when i do beleive your statement that you can take gear and train any method and you will still gain weight?
Test each one of them on yourself.
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Then how do we know what training systems work when i do beleive your statement that you can take gear and train any method and you will still gain weight?
Wish to fuck that was true but it ain't
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Wish to fuck that was true but it ain't
Just because you've been stuck at 178 or whatever pounds for the last 2 decades because you're too fucking stupid to understand you NEED TO UP THE DOSE (AND PROTEIN/CALS) as you won't keep growing past a certain point, does not mean it's untrue.
"Being on steroids" does not mean you should be able to keep growing and be 300lbs at 6% bf one day IF YOU'RE ONLY TAKING 280MG A WEEK.
STOP with your pitiful female Physique-class cycles and stupid "I can't put on any more size" "my genetics suck" whinging bullshit, man the fuck up, get a clue (because you're painfully and absolutely clueless like you proved the other week by thinking the norm for pros was around 1.5g a week!!!!) and go do a real cycle for once in your life.
OF COURSE you're going to be stuck at around 180 then shrink down when off then go back on and get back up to 180 and repeat x10,00,000 if YOU TAKE THE SAME FUCKING DOSE EVERY FUCKING TIME AND DON'T UP IT!!
You think Mentzer done just 350mg's worth of shit a week? You think you take the same amount as he did and the only reason why you could never get as big as him was because of your "bad genetics"? ::)
If you were on 8 grams of test and deca a week and 20iu's of HGH a day and 100iu's slin a day, drinking an additional 2000 calories... I fucking guarantee you - your muscles will get bigger.
My ex gf with 12 hours lifting experience under her belt knows all of this, why tf don't you?
Why WHY WHY!
(https://i.ibb.co/J2dpTCT/WHY.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
The only thing that's stopped you from gaining more mass all these years is your brain/stupidity. NOT your fucking "genetics".
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Arnold destroys mentzer
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You can see the anger and stress on Mentzer's face.
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You can see the anger and stress on Mentzer's face.
Yeah.... whats funny is in various articles Mike tells it as though he was supremely confident of victory. "Not only am I going to win the Mr. Olympia but Im going to do it while beating Arnold too!"
Yet the pics tell a much different story.
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You can see the anger and stress on Mentzer's face.
Somebody probably pissed in his cereal that morning. No, wait. He’d probably like that.
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Yeah.... whats funny is in various articles Mike tells it as though he was supremely confident of victory. "Not only am I going to win the Mr. Olympia but Im going to do it while beating Arnold too!"
Yet the pics tell a much different story.
Exactly. The guy was so delusional. He couldn't even beat Zane so how on earth was he ever going to beat Arnold? Mentzer believed in his own hype all because he got a 300 point score which mentzer mistakenly took as having a perfect physique. The 300 point score was just a gimmick to make a bodybuilding contest more interesting. Nothing more.
Mentzer barely smiled at the contest as he knew he could not beat Arnold.
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Mentzer was a weak man. That's why he's a role model to weak men. Mike dropped out of college, dropped out of bodybuilding, dropped out of life altogether. You see the word failure in the dictionary mentzer's pic is right next to it.
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Mentzer was a weak man. That's why he's a role model to weak men. Mike dropped out of college, dropped out of bodybuilding, dropped out of life altogether. You see the word failure in the dictionary mentzer's pic is right next to it.
He was even weak physically for at least the last decade of his life. Look at his last Youtube videos and he walked around like an 80 year old man.