(3rd July) Love or Hate?

[leonp1981]

HHH

Is he one of the most complete superstars of his generation?  A man who immersed himself in the business, learning everything he could from the people around him, and using that knowledge to take himself to the very top of the industry, and keep himself there?  Would he have proven himself as one of the greats even if he had not married the boss's daughter?

OR

Is he an average wrestler, who effectively slept his way to the top of the business?  Have his shortcomings been overlooked due to his relationship with the McMahon family, has he been given too much of the spotlight, and has that stopped more talented wrestlers from making an impact?

[mass 04]

I'm a big HHH fan. He has a genuine love for the business. I don't buy the whole he's married to Steph and gets what he wants crap. He would have been a main eventer no matter what. He gave Foley some of the best matches of his life, put over Benoit in the middle of the ring, made Batista, made Shelton, put over Cena at WM, made Hardy a credible threat, and was the best in the world 00-01. People bitch about his WHC reign, but he made that belt something that people coveted. All the smarks bitched how he should have put over that spot monkey RVD, that would have ruined the credibility of the belt. EVERY wrestler politics, but the HHH haters make him to be the anti christ.

[chaos]

HHH

Is he one of the most complete superstars of his generation?  A man who immersed himself in the business, learning everything he could from the people around him, and using that knowledge to take himself to the very top of the industry, and keep himself there?  Would he have proven himself as one of the greats even if he had not married the boss's daughter?

OR

Is he an average wrestler, who effectively slept his way to the top of the business?  Have his shortcomings been overlooked due to his relationship with the McMahon family, has he been given too much of the spotlight, and has that stopped more talented wrestlers from making an impact?

Triple H is a talented wrestler, one of the very few I like to see perform, most of the other guys suck and either overact every move or under act.

SHawn Michaels = overacts badly........very lame.

[Montague]

I remember seeing a fan sign when HHH was still playing the blueblood snob. It read "Hunter Hearst Helmsley: Midcarder-4-Life."

Politics are unavoidable in any business. That’s how promotions are decided. There are a lot of hardworking and deserving people who are kept in their lower level positions because they’re efficient and management can shovel more shit their way.
Less adept people who kiss the management’s ass or are the boss’s friend are more likely to get the promotion.

Hunter’s “political” affiliation with HBK and the Kliq both helped and hurt him. It got him his first decent push, but it also suspended that momentum after “the curtain call.”

HHH made some good friends in the WWF.
He was smart enough to learn and good enough to deliver.
Unfortunately, too many people don’t know when to quit, or at least lay off. HHH would have done well to spend a little more calculated time off the air.

Additionally, I think Hunter is an unfortunate example of someone fans will cheer as the underdog, but when he’s on the top, people can’t wait for him to fall.
Those same people will point to Stephanie as the root of his success.


IMO, Triple H was on his way to the top before marrying into the McMahon dynasty.
Doing so simply cemented his spot.
It has also afforded him the ability to sometimes remain high man on the totem pole when he maybe should’ve been down a few notches.

[leonp1981]

I'm a big HHH fan. He has a genuine love for the business. I don't buy the whole he's married to Steph and gets what he wants crap. He would have been a main eventer no matter what. He gave Foley some of the best matches of his life, put over Benoit in the middle of the ring, made Batista, made Shelton, put over Cena at WM, made Hardy a credible threat, and was the best in the world 00-01. People bitch about his WHC reign, but he made that belt something that people coveted. All the smarks bitched how he should have put over that spot monkey RVD, that would have ruined the credibility of the belt. EVERY wrestler politics, but the HHH haters make him to be the anti christ.

I'm a HHH fan, he comes across as a intelligent and nice guy when you see him being interviewed.  He's also one of the few guys who WWE can count on to be there when they need him.

Triple H is a talented wrestler, one of the very few I like to see perform, most of the other guys suck and either overact every move or under act.

SHawn Michaels = overacts badly........very lame.

I think there are a lot of under-rated guys on the roster.  But I'm not a Shawn Michaels fan either.

Would he have been a main eventer? Possibly. Would he have become a main eventer without HBK? No way. Would he have stayed there without marrying Steph? Not a chance. Membership has it's priviledges.

I think HHH has done as much for HBK's career as Michaels has for him.  Shawn has always brought big performances, but I wonder sometimes if maybe he'd have slipped down the card and/or retired by now if it wasn't for HHH.

[leonp1981]

I remember seeing a fan sign when HHH was still playing the blueblood snob. It read "Hunter Hearst Helmsley: Midcarder-4-Life."

IMO, Triple H was on his way to the top before marrying into the McMahon dynasty.
Doing so simply cemented his spot.
It has also afforded him the ability to sometimes remain high man on the totem pole when he maybe should’ve been down a few notches.

Haha, we should have a "Best Fan Signs" thread.

Does anyone think that HHH's character needs a bit of freshening up?  His entrance is cool, but it's getting old.  As is the leather jacket and sledgehammer.  Obviously you can't change him completely, but they could do something with him.  Maybe turn him full-on heel?!  Kick Steph in the face!

[Montague]

I'm a HHH fan, he comes across as a intelligent and nice guy when you see him being interviewed. 

My buddy ran into HHH, the Rock, and others in a gym when the Fed was running a show in town. This was back before Hunter & Rocky skyrocketed to fame.

He said Rock was very cool and engaging – actually stopped to discuss training, etc. and seemed very down to earth.
HHH, who was there with Chyna, was what my friend described as a dick. Said he was very arrogant and jock-like. Chyna was impressive to see train.

Most feedback I hear about Triple H is positive. Another friend of mine got his pic taken with Hunter at the Arnold (before HHH signed with BSN). Perhaps “Paul” is a company man now and cares about his and the business’s images 24/7.

[mass 04]

If for whatever reason him and Stephanie got a divorce what would happen to him? What's Terra Ryzing Levesque doing in the Impact Zone?

[Montague]

[leonp1981]

HHH has done as much for HBK's career as Michaels for him? Maybe in the back office with the McMahons? But in the ring. No one can touch The Showstoppers career. Think HHH is one of the greats for sure. He's worked yes. And amazingly at that. But come on. Anyone that thinks he's not as high in the company because of being married to Steph is dreaming. The guy is married to the boss' daughter and they have two kids. What part of that can anyone not understand? It's a family business and HHH is in the family.

HBK is definitely the better in-ring performer, but I do think HHH's influences backstage have helped Michaels' longevity.  How many other guys (except Taker) are allowed that much time off?

[leonp1981]

My buddy ran into HHH, the Rock, and others in a gym when the Fed was running a show in town. This was back before Hunter & Rocky skyrocketed to fame.

He said Rock was very cool and engaging – actually stopped to discuss training, etc. and seemed very down to earth.
HHH, who was there with Chyna, was what my friend described as a dick. Said he was very arrogant and jock-like. Chyna was impressive to see train.

Most feedback I hear about Triple H is positive. Another friend of mine got his pic taken with Hunter at the Arnold (before HHH signed with BSN). Perhaps “Paul” is a company man now and cares about his and the business’s images 24/7.

I can quite easily see him being a dick back before he made it big.  But like you say, he's the face of the company now, and he knows how his actions will reflect on the business.  In more recent interviews though, he does seem like a decent guy.  I wonder if John Cena was the same before he made it?

[leonp1981]

If for whatever reason him and Stephanie got a divorce what would happen to him?

"The Greenwich Screwjob"   

[Montague]

 

[The Showstoppa]

HHH is tough to judge vs wrestlers from the past.  Without being able to skip between territories, it's much tougher in many ways.  You are overexposed in WWE if you are a maineventer.  He definetly suffers from that.  So many people who hate him just say they are sick of seeing him, period.
Also, coming along in the "smark" age with all the internet info out there has hurt him in a lot of ways, for example all the charges of only being over because of Steph.  In years past, nobody knew why certain guys got a push while better wrestlers didn't, but in the age of information, we now have more to consume and speculate about.

I have always thought his in-ring work was very solid. He understands ring psychology way better than the average worker today.

[Montague]

And he knows how to tell a story in the ring.
I’ve written about this many times, but it’s been a while, so…

Too many guys today only know how to do high spot after high spot, to the point where nothing means anything.
Taker can do ONE dive over the ropes and out of the ring, and that could be the biggest move of the night because it meant the most with the buildup, the anticipation, and finally, the execution.

I also hate seeing a guy get his leg worked over for 10 minutes straight and then moving on to the next spot as a “new man.” What happened to the leg?
HHH sells shit that happened to him until he makes it back through the curtain after the match. And if there’s an interview a few minutes later, he sells it then, too.

Who’s training guys today?
Are the trainers to blame, or is it the road agents and the old man himself who doesn’t enforce these old fashioned – but very important – qualities?

I realize wrestling has changed dramatically over the last 20 years, but they’re leaving out some very important/vital shit.

After making improvements to a car design you still need to include the wheels and frame because, without them, you don't have a car.

[The Showstoppa]

And he knows how to tell a story in the ring.
I’ve written about this many times, but it’s been a while, so…

Too many guys today only know how to do high spot after high spot, to the point where nothing means anything.
Taker can do ONE dive over the ropes and out of the ring, and that could be the biggest move of the night because it meant the most with the buildup, the anticipation, and finally, the execution.

I also hate seeing a guy get his leg worked over for 10 minutes straight and then moving on to the next spot as a “new man.” What happened to the leg?
HHH sells shit that happened to him until he makes it back through the curtain after the match. And if there’s an interview a few minutes later, he sells it then, too.

Who’s training guys today?
Are the trainers to blame, or is it the road agents and the old man himself who doesn’t enforce these old fashioned – but very important – qualities?

I realize wrestling has changed dramatically over the last 20 years, but they’re leaving out some very important/vital shit.

After making improvements to a car design you still need to include the wheels and frame because, without them, you don't have a car.

Totally agree.  Imagine in the days of the Anderson tag-team when they would work a guys arm over for 10 minutes in a match?  If a guy was too dumb to sell the injury late in the match, I bet they would have just really busted up his arm so that he would remember next time.

[Montague]

Totally agree.  Imagine in the days of the Anderson tag-team when they would work a guys arm over for 10 minutes in a match?  If a guy was too dumb to sell the injury late in the match, I bet they would have just really busted up his arm so that he would remember next time.

When Ole was a promoter he never let guys get away with shit like that.

He tore apart guys who got fantastic reactions from their matches.
After Ole's critiques and advice, the guys went out and got even BETTER reactions the next night.


Or maybe you're referring to Arn Anderson, who would probably stiff the shit out of somebody who wouldn't sell for him. Did he ever do a "shoot" interview?

As Monsoon would say, "I'd buy a ticket to see that one."
God bless Gorilla!

[The Showstoppa]

When Ole was a promoter he never let guys get away with shit like that.

He tore apart guys who got fantastic reactions from their matches.
After Ole's critiques and advice, the guys went out and got even BETTER reactions the next night.


Or maybe you're referring to Arn Anderson, who would probably stiff the shit out of somebody who wouldn't sell for him. Did he ever do a "shoot" interview?

As Monsoon would say, "I'd buy a ticket to see that one."
God bless Gorilla!

I was referring to Ole and Gene who were known for stretching people.  Supposdely Gene was really the one nobody messed with.  Funny to think about now.

I think Arn is one of the greatest of all time.  Never gets enough credit and especially the way WCW made him job on Saturday nights for 10 years.  I would love to hear a shoot interview with him.

[chaos]

HBK is definitely the better in-ring performer,

I don't think so. I think he overacts and tries to oversell every move.


I agree with Monty on this.

And he knows how to tell a story in the ring.
I’ve written about this many times, but it’s been a while, so…

Too many guys today only know how to do high spot after high spot, to the point where nothing means anything.
Taker can do ONE dive over the ropes and out of the ring, and that could be the biggest move of the night because it meant the most with the buildup, the anticipation, and finally, the execution.

I also hate seeing a guy get his leg worked over for 10 minutes straight and then moving on to the next spot as a “new man.” What happened to the leg?
HHH sells shit that happened to him until he makes it back through the curtain after the match. And if there’s an interview a few minutes later, he sells it then, too.

[Montague]

I agree with Monty on this.

See?

Experts agree.

[leonp1981]

I don't think so. I think he overacts and tries to oversell every move.


I agree with Monty on this.

Like I said I'm not a fan of Shawn Michaels, I'd prefer to watch HHH anyday, but no-one can deny that Michaels puts on a hell of match.  Take this years Wrestlemania as an example.  Taker vs HBK was the best match of the entire night, but HHH vs Orton was a huge letdown.

[chaos]

You cannot deny him as the best ever.

 

Denied.

[Playboy]

Thats what seperates the good from the great. I know HBK has worked with Undertaker many times before. But Orton/HHH was a complete waste! They just couldn't do it. The thing that truly makes Boy Toy one of the greatest ever is? You can put him in the ring with anyone in any era of wrestling and the match will be great. Name or show one match that wasn't great that had Mr. Wrestlemania in it. I swear I hated the guy for the majority of my life. Up until when he beat Brett at Mania. Sweet Chin Music/reality kicked me right in the face! Love him or hate him? You cannot deny him as the best ever.

 

Gotta agree with you there. Definately the headliner at any event.

[Playboy]

That segment with the barber shop is what started it all for Michaels in terms of being the Heartbreak Kid. He defiantely worked his ass off. If you really want a good dvd to enjoy that takes you behind the scenes, get the Shawn Michaels dvd. Very well done.

[Hulkster]

hahahahah

Heenan "Janetty tried to dive through the glass window! what an act of cowardice!"

hahahhaaha