Author Topic: Brady to the Bucs?  (Read 7971 times)

Irongrip400

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Brady to the Bucs?
« on: March 17, 2020, 04:45:36 PM »
Anyone think he'll do shit there, or will the ďmagicĒ be gone because heís not with BB anymore? I wonder if itís the end of the road for both of those guys.

IroNat

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2020, 05:18:05 PM »
He'll be fine there.

Grape Ape

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2020, 10:09:10 PM »
Wonít make a difference.  Pats have an insane schedule for once.  Would lose even with Brady.
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Dos Equis

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2020, 06:07:06 PM »
I don't think he will win a Super Bowl, but he has much better weapons in Tampa Bay than NE.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 

Irongrip400

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2020, 03:57:31 PM »
I don't think he will win a Super Bowl, but he has much better weapons in Tampa Bay than NE.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out. 

Yeah Iíll be tuning in. Good for the Bucs, I hope he does well. Heís a smug prick but heís the best to ever suit up, I hope he doesnít go out on the scrap heap.

Dos Equis

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2020, 01:21:39 PM »
Yeah Iíll be tuning in. Good for the Bucs, I hope he does well. Heís a smug prick but heís the best to ever suit up, I hope he doesnít go out on the scrap heap.

I will watch but I am a Niner fan so I hope he crashes and burns.  lol

Irongrip400

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2020, 05:56:15 PM »
He gets Gronk back, will it help? Letís them get a lineman early and have a setup similar to NE. Keep him on his feet and he can throw another 2-3 years.

Grape Ape

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2020, 07:58:28 AM »
Gronk hasn't been able to stay healthy for years.

Bucs are not better than NO/SF/GB.

I don't see this as a big deal.
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Irongrip400

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2021, 06:31:52 PM »
Gronk hasn't been able to stay healthy for years.

Bucs are not better than NO/SF/GB.

I don't see this as a big deal.

 :-\

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2021, 04:50:24 AM »
These predictions didn't age well. ;D

Grape Ape

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2021, 10:48:50 AM »
Nope, no they did not.

First, Bucs defense was a fucking beast, so there's that.

But, offense much better too...they signed everyone, and it worked.

Could work again.

They have to be favorites to repeat.
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Humble Narcissist

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2021, 03:43:20 AM »
Nope, no they did not.

First, Bucs defense was a fucking beast, so there's that.

But, offense much better too...they signed everyone, and it worked.

Could work again.

They have to be favorites to repeat.
They are probably favored but they won't repeat.  That is very difficult to do and it takes a lot of luck.

Irongrip400

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2021, 11:51:40 AM »
They are probably favored but they won't repeat.  That is very difficult to do and it takes a lot of luck.

Even the haters would have to admit Brady is the GOAT if they do. Not sure how you argue it at this point though.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2021, 12:52:35 PM »
Even the haters would have to admit Brady is the GOAT if they do. Not sure how you argue it at this point though.
No, leaving NE, going to the NFC to a team with a losing record and winning the Super Bowl the first year ended any doubt.

Grape Ape

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2021, 12:31:24 PM »
Even the haters would have to admit Brady is the GOAT if they do. Not sure how you argue it at this point though.

I can make a legit argument against it, if I was so inclined.

But nobody on the other side listens to any legit criticism.
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Humble Narcissist

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2021, 12:52:29 PM »
I can make a legit argument against it, if I was so inclined.

But nobody on the other side listens to any legit criticism.
Let's hear it.

Grape Ape

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2021, 08:44:49 PM »
Let's hear it.

I'll do it, but only if people are interested in conversation.  We're not about throwing insults around on this board (not saying that's what you do, just for everyone).  If it devolves into bullshit, I'll just delete and move on.

I'm not saying he's not the best....but there are legit events that should be part of the conversation.  I'm sure I will just be called a hater, but that's fine. I don't even dislike Brady, but I do hate when legit questions get ignored for complete homerism.  It's like how fans insist Ortiz was clean.

First, just like the 2017 Astros, the Patriots are confirmed cheaters.  Despite what NE fans say, this was not a case of a camera being in the wrong spot. This was a complete systemic process for stealing the other teams plays. They even employed a man named Ernie Adams, whose full time job was to decipher codes and steal plays, and Goodell and NFL were complicit in the coverup:

Quote
Now, the Patriots realized that they were on to something, a schematic edge that could allow their best minds more control on the field. Taping from the sideline increased efficiency and minimized confusion. And so, as Walsh later told investigators, the system improved, becoming more streamlined -- and more secretive. The quarterbacks were cut out of the process. The only people involved were a few coaches, the video staff and, of course, Adams. Belichick, almost five years after being fired by the Browns and fully aware that this was his last best shot as a head coach, placed an innovative system of cheating in the hands of his most trusted friend.

This was all written about  in the following article which every football fan should read.  It's not some hack hater article, it's actually real investigative journalism, with over 90 sources.  NE fans try to claim spygate was a camera in the wrong place.  Judge for yourself.

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

Either way, every one of those first three SB wins were by less than a TD.  Close enough to question the validity, as each game could legit come down to knowing one or two key plays in advance, by illegal means.  So I put those first three as questionable.

Plus one of them had the tuck rule, which was bullshit as well.

I then classify the Atlanta and Seattle wins as less to do with Brady (he played well) and more to do with the inexplicable decisions were head coaches legitimately gifted wins that they basically had in the bag.  Both had the necessary weapons to secure the game...in fact, they had the best ones in the game.  Seattle needed short yardage to win the SB, and they had the best short yardage back in the game.  Everyone knows how Carrol gifted that one away.  Brady was on the sideline crying with his head in his hands when the Int happend. For the Falcons, all they had to do was run the ball and play  the clock, but the coach inexplicably kept the passing game up.  Then, in FG range, indoors, with the best kicker in the league, they drop Ryan back and he gets sacked out of FG range.  3 runs and a sub 40 yard FG and they win.  Done.  These two are not necessarily a knock on Brady, but moreso how 2 SB could vanish if the coaches were not inept.

They won the Rams SB, but Brady played like shit.  Also, they should have been playing NO since the refs non call of one of the most blatant PI plays in history literally stole the SB appearance from the Saints. Also, a nitpick, but Chiefs "won" when Brady had an incomplete pass to end the  game, but a HAND in the neutral zone gave it a replay, and the Pats won.

Owned by Eli Manning TWICE.  Eli.  Manning.  I will give the 2007 to anyone who says the Giants got lucky on the helmet catch.  However, it is still the greatest play in football history, but I digress.....

TB win is legit, but more to do with TB defense.

Also, the rules favor the current crop of QBs, and offenses more, so the older guys had it much harder.

Now, all that shit I listed might not mean anything, and he's likely still the best ever.  But without a tremendous amount of luck, and maybe cheating, he might have 2 wins.

The stuff above will be dismissed as hating, but it should be part of the conversation when people make their own judgement.

In summary: 3 SB questionable, two gifts, one he played like shit, owned by Eli twice, favorable rules, and some luck.
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Humble Narcissist

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2021, 02:54:46 AM »
Good points.  Here are counter points:

1) No player in the NFL does it alone.  There is no doubt NE had some great defenses to help Brady win but he also had fewer great receivers that many QB's have.

2) NE was caught cheating but they have also been scrutinized more than any other team because of their success.  No one cares if the Jets are cheating.

3) Winning is winning regardless of by how many points.

4) Eli Manning played "lights out" in those SB victories and had great defenses as well.

5) Brady moved on to Tampa Bay which had a losing record and won another Super Bowl the first year there in a different division and conference as well.  Most athletes try to move to a stacked team so the path is easier.

6) Brady is obsessed with winning and took pay cuts in NE in order to have more money spent on other players.  Throughout his career he was not even a top 10 paid QB.

I don't really like "all time great" arguments especially in football because there are so many players involved and a player only plays on 1 side of the ball.  In baseball and basketball a player plays offense and defense (except pitchers in American League) and is easier to judge.  Different eras are hard to compare as well because of rule changes.  Today's players can play a lot longer because they are protected.  Bradshaw, Unitas, Fouts, Montana, Favre, etc, took vicious hits to the head and knees that would get defensive players run out of the league today.

If we are going to discuss the all time great and you don't think it's Brady, who is your choice?

Grape Ape

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2021, 10:41:26 AM »
Good points.  Here are counter points:

1) No player in the NFL does it alone.  There is no doubt NE had some great defenses to help Brady win but he also had fewer great receivers that many QB's have.

2) NE was caught cheating but they have also been scrutinized more than any other team because of their success.  No one cares if the Jets are cheating.

3) Winning is winning regardless of by how many points.

4) Eli Manning played "lights out" in those SB victories and had great defenses as well.

5) Brady moved on to Tampa Bay which had a losing record and won another Super Bowl the first year there in a different division and conference as well.  Most athletes try to move to a stacked team so the path is easier.

6) Brady is obsessed with winning and took pay cuts in NE in order to have more money spent on other players.  Throughout his career he was not even a top 10 paid QB.

I don't really like "all time great" arguments especially in football because there are so many players involved and a player only plays on 1 side of the ball.  In baseball and basketball a player plays offense and defense (except pitchers in American League) and is easier to judge.  Different eras are hard to compare as well because of rule changes.  Today's players can play a lot longer because they are protected.  Bradshaw, Unitas, Fouts, Montana, Favre, etc, took vicious hits to the head and knees that would get defensive players run out of the league today.

If we are going to discuss the all time great and you don't think it's Brady, who is your choice?

1. I agree in principal, but the defensive comment is more in the context of TB, they were monsters, so their turnaround was a myriad of factors, but Brady gets all the credit.

2. Disagree...chicken/egg thing...maybe success was DUE to cheating.  Plus, Bellichek has a history of this stuff (and likely never stopped - re: Cincy taping).  Owners were pissed at the lax penalties for such blatant cheating.  NFL covered up because they couldn't have their current dynasty team be publicized cheaters.  Extra scrutiny is warranted - all in the article.

3. That is true.  But the close scores, to me at least, make it worse, because one play could decide that.  And, if they knew 75% of the other teams plays and it was STILL close, maybe they don't win any of those three on fair playing ground.

4.  Yup..the Eli comment is just to agitate NE fans.  Eli made two of the most prolific passes in NFL SB history, and the escape preceding the helmet catch, combined with ending the perfect season, make it the greatest play ever.

5.  Yup, credit there.  But also easy to do when wife is worth a billion.

Brady is probably overall best, because what he's doing at his age is remarkable.  Longevity counts...I'm a big fan of that.   For the others, I think Montana, P Manning, Elway, Brady are top four, and you can make strong arguments for each, especially Montana.
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Humble Narcissist

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2021, 11:41:27 AM »
Montana was widely considered the GOAT before Brady.  Elway also has a claim.  Those teams he took to the SB in the 80's were garbage without him.

Grape Ape

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Re: Brady to the Bucs?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2021, 11:49:47 AM »
Montana was widely considered the GOAT before Brady.  Elway also has a claim.  Those teams he took to the SB in the 80's were garbage without him.

Super hard to compare players for different eras, since the rule changes favor the offense so much more.  Maybe the older guys get a few more rings if they were protected like Brady.

Who knows.

Good convo though.
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