Author Topic: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977  (Read 3511 times)

stingray

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2021, 01:34:28 PM »
Train hard, eat well, take steroids and you grow

Gains come from hard work, consistency, lifting heavy, not fancy training programs

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2021, 01:38:13 PM »
Those iron man videos are pretty good, is there anywhere i can find those videos to watch later?And who were some of the bodybuilders in those videos?

Amazon rents or sells the the set as a digital thing for $3 or $15 respectively, just search "Iron Man Magazine's Critical Mass POF Bodybuilding".

You could try a Youtube downloader too, I use clipconverter.cc, but you've got to watch for pop-ups, like most of those download sites.

The bodybuilders used for it were - Paul DeMayo, Tom Varga, Darryl Thornton, Kevin Hall, and Chris Duffy. DeMayo's the biggest name, but they were all top NPC guys in the early to mid 90's.

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2021, 07:01:05 PM »
It depends on how many sets you are training per bodypart. A person training 1 to 2 sets per bodypart can do a full body workout in under an hour. If you are trying to do 5 to 10 sets per bodypart for a full body workout it would be exhausting. Mentzer was training to failure on every exercise which is not needed at all.

He only did one set til failure on each exercise but I believe he was doing like 20 exercises, so 20 sets til failure is FUCKING BRUTAL!

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2021, 08:06:41 PM »
He only did one set til failure on each exercise but I believe he was doing like 20 exercises, so 20 sets til failure is FUCKING BRUTAL!

People are always claiming that Mentzer didn't train the way he exposed. He did so to make money. How exactly would he profit if you, I, or anybody else trained using his protocol? He didn't work for Nautilus and never profited from the sales. Why is it that people that make all these claims about how he trained never witnessed themselves what he actually did in the gym?

Why don't we ask Samir Bannout who actually trained with Mike?

&index=32

pellius

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2021, 08:18:01 PM »
Mentzer said that the whole body 3 times a week was really fucking him up and after a session he would have to lay down and sleep for 2 or 3 hours. Later he split the body in half and he said that the recovery from that was more than 50% better even though it was a 50% change. In my opinion even splitting the body in half is still too much, split in thirds is doable though. Now pretty much everybody just trains one bodypart a day.

I know very few people that train just one body part per day. You do arms and that's it? I think it's a very inefficient use of time but then again, some just like going to the gym every day like clockwork.

I occasionally run into this guy when our schedules match, that's around 55 years old, who trains six days a week at 2 PM like clock work. One day, and this was just about two weeks ago I saw him coming in at 3:00 pm. It was on a Saturday and I chided him for being "late". He said that he was at a birthday party for his son. I asked him how old his son was now and what kind of party was it. He told me his son turn 12 years old and they held it at his house and put up a tent in his yard for all his friends and relatives. I mentioned that the party sure wrapped up early. He told me no, it was still going on but he left to come to the gym.

Imagine that? How many times do you get to spend the day with all your friends and relatives? When you are on your death bed how many will say that they wished they spent more time in the gym. That they did more sets and reps? Would he be glad that he left his family and friends to spend two hours in a gym with just passing acquaintances that wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if he drop dead that night?

Unless you are a professional athlete, exercise -- going to the gym, is supposed to enhance the quality of your life and not be your life.

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2021, 08:28:51 PM »
Guys for decades would train their whole body in one day.  Mentzer won the Mr. America doing that and so did Casey Viator.  Guys juicing can get away with things natural guys can't get away with too.

I know it's been done. I use to do full-body training for years. But if you do that you have to limit the amount of exercises you can do per bodypart. Even though I am a strong proponent of Arthur Jones/Mentzer philosophy I found I simply can't do the various movements and angles I believe necessary for all muscle groups in one session. Benching, Incline, flys, overhead pull-down, a rowing movement, front presses, side, rear delts, squats, leg extension, leg curl, lower back, bicep, tricep, abs. Even if I just do one set of each, no warmup, it would take too long and I wouldn't have the energy to put in the intensity toward the end. If I did just one pulling and pushing exercise, which would cover all the major muscles in the upper body along with squats and situps then it would be doable but I don't think it would be optimal.

Also, Mentzer wrote down his routine he used for the America and he was training 4 days a week spitting up bodyparts.

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2021, 08:29:31 PM »
Believe it or not, Sisco and Little advocated 1 set of 1 rep for 1 exercise in one of their (s)HIT programs.  Eventually they said you would only be training once every 6 months. ::)

Source?

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2021, 08:30:40 PM »
Train hard, eat well, take steroids and you grow

Gains come from hard work, consistency, lifting heavy, not fancy training programs

How has that worked out for you?

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2021, 08:38:13 PM »
People are always claiming that Mentzer didn't train the way he exposed. He did so to make money. How exactly would he profit if you, I, or anybody else trained using his protocol? He didn't work for Nautilus and never profited from the sales. Why is it that people that make all these claims about how he trained never witnessed themselves what he actually did in the gym?

Why don't we ask Samir Bannout who actually trained with Mike?

&index=32

Here's how he trained, don't think it's a lie.

https://www.ironmanmagazine.com/heavy-duty-mike-mentzers-most-productive-routine/


AT HOME WORKOUTSTHINKING ABOUT COMPETING? FULL CHEST WORKOUTCucumber lime mint spinach protein drinkRECIPE: GREEN PROTEIN DRINKbodybuilder pumping ironTIPS: ON HOW TO GET TWO INCHES ON YOUR ARM IN 12 WEEKS


OVER-40 TRAININGJULY 1, 2003Heavy Duty: Mike Mentzerís Most Productive RoutineIt was the essential basic Heavy Duty routine consisting of four to five sets per bodypart and broken into two workouts.
JOHN LITTLE
SHARETWEETPINBUILDING THE ULTIMATE PHYSIQUE
MONTH 7: SHOULDER TRAINING WITH THE MAX CONTRACTION SYSTEMAB-SESSION: MIDSECTION MADNESS FOR A MORE COMPLETE PHYSIQUE

He stood only 5'8' yet packed 215 pounds of rock-solid muscle on his frame. His triceps, in particular, when viewed from behind, reminded one of two large watermelons hanging out of a T-shirt. Reports varied as to the actual size of his arms. When Mike Mentzer was asked how big they were at one of his seminars, he responded with characteristic wryness, 'Very big.'

I once asked Mike what his arms had taped at their largest, and his answer startled me: 'About 18 1/2 inches.' I was incredulous. 'But they look well over 20 inches!' I exclaimed. 'Pumped, they probably are, John,' he replied, 'but measured cold'which is how you should measure your arms'they never stretched the tape beyond 18 1/2.'

Upon hearing that, I quickly realized how much deceit was being practiced in the bodybuilding world, where champions whose arms were obviously far less substantial than Mike's would loudly proclaim measurements of 21 inches or, in some instances that stretched credibility to the breaking point, 22 inches.

The Role of Genetics
Without question genetics played a huge role in providing the foundation for the muscular mass that Mike built'as he was the first to admit. In later years, however, he confided that he had reservations about making such a strong case for genetics. While genetic characteristics were important, Mike believed that they had been overemphasized. He worried that the notion that you have to have good genetics to achieve a championship physique had actually served to destroy the motivation of certain bodybuilders. 'Besides,' Mike explained, 'it's very difficult to accurately assess your genetic potential. At best you might be able to get a suggestion of where you might go based on your muscle belly lengths, your bone structure and metabolism and neuromuscular efficiency, but the most important thing, I think, is motivation'everyone can improve themselves, and that's important. Not everyone is going to become Mr. Olympia, but we can all improve ourselves.'

In 1986 I was living in Canada and searching for answers concerning the 'ultimate truth' of bodybuilding, and I set out to interview those who, in my estimation, had tried to decipher this Rosetta stone themselves. I interviewed Lou Ferrigno, John Grimek, Paul Anderson, Doug Hepburn, Frank Zane, Lee Haney, Dorian Yates, Lee Labrada, Steve Reeves and both Mike and Ray Mentzer, among others. It was during a trip to California to interview Steve Reeves, in fact, that Mike invited me to stay with him as his guest at his apartment in Hollywood. I readily accepted, for I knew that it would afford me an opportunity to talk not only bodybuilding but philosophy, a passion that Mike and I shared for more than two decades.

Mike and I talked about a great many subjects during that trip, but first and foremost on my mind was finding out what Mike Mentzer's most productive training routine had been. I knew that he'd been all over the board in terms of sets and reps throughout his early career, starting out with a whole-body workout performed three days per week, on which he gained no less than 70 pounds over three years, bringing his bodyweight up from 95 pounds at age 12 to 165 pounds at 15. From there Mike moved on to the routines advocated in the various muscle magazines that espoused 20-sets-per-bodypart training, even at one time extending that to 40 sets per bodypart. That brought his bodyweight up again, but only slightly.

When his gains eventually ground to a complete halt on high-set routines, he happened to make the acquaintance of Casey Viator, then the youngest person ever to hold the Mr. America title, and learned of the high-intensity-training principles advocated by Nautilus creator Arthur Jones. After speaking with Jones directly, Mike decided to switch back to a three-days-per-week whole-body routine, performing approximately five sets per bodypart in high-intensity fashion. He won the '76 Mr. America contest at a bodyweight of 205 pounds while training on such a program, but he didn't stay with it, switching eventually to a split routine performed four days per week. Then, prior to his Mr. Olympia appearances in 1979 and '80'where he tipped the scales at a rock-solid 215 pounds'he spread out his routine even further, training only once every two to four days.

I wasn't interested so much in his theories (they were not as advanced as they would become from 1993 on, when he reduced the sets to one on a split routine that saw his clients training but once every four to seven days) as I was in learning what he actually did; i.e., how he'd trained to build the incredible muscle mass that he was known for and what he'd personally found to be the most productive muscle-building routine of his entire career. Mike was seated at his desk, and I was directly across from him on a sofa in the living room when I first asked him about it. Mike smiled, knowing that it was the question all aspiring bodybuilders wanted the answer to and, indeed, the very question he himself had posed to his idols, like the great Bill Pearl, when he was starting out in bodybuilding.

'The routine I followed was the essential basic Heavy Duty routine consisting of four to five sets per bodypart and broken into two workouts,' he began. 'The first workout would be legs, chest and triceps; the second workout was back, shoulders and biceps. I would start with leg extensions'six to eight reps to failure'and then continue beyond that with forced reps and negative reps, and then go immediately to leg presses, preferably on a Nautilus Compound Leg machine, as that would allow me to go from one exercise to the other without pausing. After that I would do one set of squats to positive failure, usually in the neighborhood of 400 to 500 pounds, and then proceed on to leg curls for two sets.

'Then I'd work calves, typically two sets of standing calf raises on a machine, followed by one set of toe presses on a leg press machine to failure. After legs I'd move on to chest for one to two supersets of dumbbell flyes or pec deck and incline barbell presses. I'd follow that up with one or two sets of dips. I always selected weights for my exercises that allowed me to get at least six good positive repetitions and then continue with forced and negative reps. With any preexhaust set, such as leg extensions to leg presses or pec deck to incline presses, I would take no rest at all between exercises, but I would rest long enough to catch my breath, and I'd only do the negatives once a week on each exercise. Moving on to triceps, I'd limit myself to fewer than four sets for triceps, doing one preexhaust cycle of triceps pressdowns followed immediately by a set of dips. Then I might finish off with two sets of lying triceps extensions. That would be it.'

ALL'What about your second workout of the week?' I inquired. Mike's forearms rippled as he carefully placed a pen on his desk and answered, 'That would be back, shoulders and biceps. I would begin with the largest muscle group'the back'and perform Nautilus pullovers supersetted with close-grip underhand pulldowns. I'd complete two cycles of those two exercises and then move on to two sets of bent-over barbell rows to finish up my lat work.

'From there I would move on to traps and perform two preexhaust cycles of Universal machine shrugs supersetted with upright rows. Then it would be on to shoulders, for which I would do two superset cycles of Nautilus lateral raises followed by Nautilus behind-the-neck presses and two sets of either rear-delt rows'performed by sitting backward in a pec deck machine and squeezing your elbows as far back as they can go'or two sets of bent-over dumbbell laterals. And finally, I'd finish up with biceps, where I'd do one set of standing barbell curls to failure followed by one or two sets of either seated concentration curls or preacher curls.'

Workout 1 (Monday)

Legs
Superset
Leg extensions 1 x 6-8
Leg presses 1 x 6-8
Squats 1 x 6-8
Leg curls 2 x 6-8
Calf raises 2 x 6-8
Toe presses 1 x 6-8

Chest
Superset
Dumbbell flyes or pec deck 1-2 x 6-8
Incline presses 1-2 x 6-8
Dips 2 x 6-8

Triceps
Superset
Pushdowns 1 x 6-8
Dips 1 x 6-8
Lying triceps extensions 2 x 6-8

Workout 2 (Wednesday)

Back
Superset
Nautilus pullovers 2 x 6-8
Close-grip pulldowns 2 x 6-8
Bent-over barbell rows 2 x 6-8

Traps
Superset
Universal machine shrugs 2 x 6-8
Upright rows 2 x 6-8

Shoulders
Superset
Nautilus laterals 2 x 6-8
Nautilus presses 2 x 6-8
Rear-delt rows 2 x 6-8

Biceps
Standing barbell curls 1 x 6-8
Concentration curls 2 x 6-8

He talks the full body workouts in this article.

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2021, 08:44:02 PM »
I know very few people that train just one body part per day. You do arms and that's it? I think it's a very inefficient use of time but then again, some just like going to the gym every day like clockwork.

I occasionally run into this guy when our schedules match, that's around 55 years old, who trains six days a week at 2 PM like clock work. One day, and this was just about two weeks ago I saw him coming in at 3:00 pm. It was on a Saturday and I chided him for being "late". He said that he was at a birthday party for his son. I asked him how old his son was now and what kind of party was it. He told me his son turn 12 years old and they held it at his house and put up a tent in his yard for all his friends and relatives. I mentioned that the party sure wrapped up early. He told me no, it was still going on but he left to come to the gym.

Imagine that? How many times do you get to spend the day with all your friends and relatives? When you are on your death bed how many will say that they wished they spent more time in the gym. That they did more sets and reps? Would he be glad that he left his family and friends to spend two hours in a gym with just passing acquaintances that wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if he drop dead that night?

Unless you are a professional athlete, exercise -- going to the gym, is supposed to enhance the quality of your life and not be your life.

That's how most elite bodybuilders train nowadays, one bodypart a day 5 days a week. Started with Yates in the early 90's, except he trained 4 days a week, and he put bis with chest and tris with delts, and he had a back day and a leg day. How many days do you train per week and how do you split it up?

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2021, 09:03:03 PM »
That's how most elite bodybuilders train nowadays, one bodypart a day 5 days a week. Started with Yates in the early 90's, except he trained 4 days a week, and he put bis with chest and tris with delts, and he had a back day and a leg day. How many days do you train per week and how do you split it up?

I'm not sure what you mean by "started with Yates" as Yates did not do just one bodypart per session and only trained 4 days per week.

I currently train 2-3 times a week depending on the week. I do 5 workouts over a two-week period and each body part is trained once every 8 days.

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2021, 09:18:27 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean by "started with Yates" as Yates did not do just one bodypart per session and only trained 4 days per week.

I currently train 2-3 times a week depending on the week. I do 5 workouts over a two-week period and each body part is trained once every 8 days.

He had a back only day and a leg only day, so half his workouts were one bodypart. Skip Lacour had a program back in the mid-90's which was 5 days a week, back day, leg day, chest day, delt day and arm day, and that's basically how most pro's train nowadays.

Good for you that you can train just 2-3 days a week. I'd go nuts if I only trained 2-3 days a week. 

pellius

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2021, 09:57:10 PM »
He had a back only day and a leg only day, so half his workouts were one bodypart. Skip Lacour had a program back in the mid-90's which was 5 days a week, back day, leg day, chest day, delt day and arm day, and that's basically how most pro's train nowadays.

Good for you that you can train just 2-3 days a week. I'd go nuts if I only trained 2-3 days a week.

Again, I don't see the logic. You claim that it is now common to do one bodypart per day starting with Yates then contradicting yourself and trying to ameliorate your position by a qualifying "Well, half his workouts were just one body part". Well, half is still not all.

I'd go nuts if I had to train five or six days a week. For me, there is far, far more to life than being in a gym. I have much more interest in life than just exercising.

My philosophy is probably the opposite of most on this board. I don't try to find the maximum amount of exercise and working out my body can endure but rather the absolute minimum amount that is needed.

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #63 on: October 19, 2021, 02:45:12 AM »

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #64 on: October 19, 2021, 05:42:17 AM »
Not in my case, I dieted on low carb and looked like absolute shit, flat and stingy. I found through trial and error that I can't go below 200 carb grams a day, and if I do I get that shitty flat and stringy look.

same , look and feel much better with moderate carb intake , and more energy and better recovery time

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #65 on: October 19, 2021, 07:07:11 AM »
I only train one muscle group per day hell I have now separated Hamstrings into a separate stand alone day. I just rotate muscle groups each day if I am not recovered injured or busy I take a day or two off. I don't believe in complicated stuff I train in my basement so I keep it simple 2-3 exercises per workout. You can do just as many sets and reps with 2-3 exercises as you can with 5-7 exercises. I will try to change exercise every couple workouts to get more variety

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #66 on: October 19, 2021, 09:15:31 AM »
People are always claiming that Mentzer didn't train the way he exposed. He did so to make money. How exactly would he profit if you, I, or anybody else trained using his protocol? He didn't work for Nautilus and never profited from the sales. Why is it that people that make all these claims about how he trained never witnessed themselves what he actually did in the gym?

Why don't we ask Samir Bannout who actually trained with Mike?

&index=32
He didn't train at all the last 20 years of his life. He only lived to 49.

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #67 on: October 19, 2021, 10:39:59 AM »
Roger Schwab said he trained with Mentzer many times
He talks about it in this interview starting at ~ 35 minute mark

I think most people who've tried to follow his system found that it was unsustainable as a long term method of training
We also know now that it's not necessary to train to failure and beyond all the time...if ever, and volume does play a role in building muscle mass

Also, anyone who's been training for awhile knows that you need a certain amount of warming up and acclimation before you can effectively do a heavy set to failure (or close) on a compound exercise.  I recall reading a few times that Mentzers joints were wrecked and he was literally not able to train the way he had in the past.   When you compare him to someone like Lee Labrada who still looks incredible and you can see which approach makes more sense for most people


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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #68 on: October 19, 2021, 10:42:58 AM »
Straw, we actually agree on something. Wonders never cease.

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #69 on: October 19, 2021, 10:51:17 AM »
Straw, we actually agree on something. Wonders never cease.

that's probably because you don't have an emotional, knee jerk reaction to this topic

If Fox News and other right wing media spent every day telling you the Mike Mentzer's methods were the best and only way to train you'd believe it

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #70 on: October 19, 2021, 11:19:27 AM »
Roger Schwab said he trained with Mentzer many times
He talks about it in this interview starting at ~ 35 minute mark

I think most people who've tried to follow his system found that it was unsustainable as a long term method of training
We also know now that it's not necessary to train to failure and beyond all the time...if ever and volume does play a role in building muscle mass

Also, anyone who's been training for awhile knows that you need a certain amount of warming up and acclimation before you can effectively do a heavy set to failure (or close) on a compound exercise.  I recall reading a few times that Mentzers joints were wrecked and he was literally not able to train the way he had in the past.   When you compare him to someone like Lee Labrada who still looks incredible and you can see which approach makes more sense for most people



You should do warms up on each and every exercise. The heavier the load used the longer you have to warm up. If you are benching 135 then you only need maybe 2 warm ups, but if you are benching 500 you need 5 or 6 warm ups.

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2021, 12:04:03 PM »
Mentzer re. genetics for bodybuilding


pellius

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2021, 11:45:59 PM »
Static Contraction Training

That is not a source. You gave me the name of something.

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2021, 11:52:24 PM »
Roger Schwab said he trained with Mentzer many times
He talks about it in this interview starting at ~ 35 minute mark

I think most people who've tried to follow his system found that it was unsustainable as a long term method of training
We also know now that it's not necessary to train to failure and beyond all the time...if ever, and volume does play a role in building muscle mass

Also, anyone who's been training for awhile knows that you need a certain amount of warming up and acclimation before you can effectively do a heavy set to failure (or close) on a compound exercise.  I recall reading a few times that Mentzers joints were wrecked and he was literally not able to train the way he had in the past.   When you compare him to someone like Lee Labrada who still looks incredible and you can see which approach makes more sense for most people



Mike himself has admitted that he didn't really know for sure if 100% intensity of effort was required. Maybe it's 95% or 85%, but how do you measure that? You can measure somewhat accurately zero effort and maximum effort but not anything in between just going by "feel". What was more important was progression. Trying to exceed your previous performance. Doing more weight or more reps. As long as you are working within your functional ability, doing what is already easy and possible, then you do little if anything to stimulate an adaptive response. If you do 8 reps of pull-ups and continue to just do 8 reps never trying for the 9th rep what has your body got to adapt to?

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Re: MIKE MENTZER: MR. NORTH AMERICA 1977
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2021, 02:40:42 AM »
That is not a source. You gave me the name of something.
You would have to buy the system that Tony Robbins endorsed with his program Get The Edge:7 Day Program To Transform Your Life.  It was produced in the year 2000.  Robbins had a long interview with Sisco & Little where they made ridiculous claims.