Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Female Info Boards => Figure, Bikini and Fitness Info and Discussions => Topic started by: TK on December 18, 2007, 04:25:01 PM
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All this talk about the Arnold Classic selections and who will be invited? Why are some people trying to state facts when they have no clue on what they are putting out there? Enough already!
Steve Wennerstrom had enough... after hearing the dribble that FigureRX puts out! Here was his response
"WHERE is all this coming from????????? PEOPLE, listen up.......NO SELECTIONS have been made yet. NONE, okay. And by the way Jenny Lynn DID NOT withdrawr from consideration...she NEVER planned to do it in the first place. The same goes for Mary Lado. She had NO plans to defend her title. And, are you listening Stephen?..........
Jenny Lynn has NO plans to retire anytime soon. Nicole Wilkins is seeking consideration for the Figure International as all the past overall Figure National overall winners have. And she's planning on making her Fitness pro debut at the NYC Pro show. Also Angie Monteleone (you can leave the Semsch off now) never put in for consideration to the Fitness International for 2008.....Michelle Flake and Mary Jo Cooke didn't seek an invite to the Figure Ms. I either. And you don't think Jennifer Gates doesn't deserve strong consideration for the year she had in 2007???
Stephen, if you are seeking some sort of validity or credibility with all your charts, graphs and postulations (some out of thin air I suppose) there are better ways to do than to simply guess. I have a great idea. How about just letting the selection process take its course. The Ms. International is an "invitational" and the promoter has much more to say about what he wants to see in HIS field of competitors than you realize or understand.
Lastly, six is the incorrect number of members of the selection committee. There was also a question about why the Arnold field doesn't have 25 or 30 invitees. Uh, how about the fact that Mr. Lorimer (as the promoter) flies in all the competitors, puts them up in suites at no cost to the competitors, and actually treats them like athletes. How many promoters do that? How many could afford to pay (for the sake of numbers 3 women's divisions at 25 women each and 25 men in bodybuilding) that's 100 (ONE HUNDRED airfares) and 100 free suites for three or four nights. Maybe FigureRX should promote their own a contest and invite 75 women and pay ALL their expenses. Can you venture a guess as to when THAT will happen?"
To which the kiss ass answer was
I just had a very long phone conversation with Steve W, for whom we have huge respect and we clarified some things and agreed on many others. Our FigureRX article is based on statistical analysis and we want to be sure that everyone knows that the official invitations have not been released yet. Up until last Friday it was not even necessarily known who would be expressing interest in the show, unless we had talked to a competitor directly, because the deadline for entry had not passed. The main purpose for our article(s) was to describe the process and take a look at how the committee has put together a diverse, well rounded group of athletes in years past and then to have some fun and see what our model predicted regarding 2008. The human element is there in any invitational and we hope that nobody will be hugely disappointed if they appear in our article and are not selected by the committee - that's bound to happen and we don't wish to create any false hopes. We do wish that everyone could make it but that's just not possible. There are indeed *seven* total members of the selection committee, if you include Jim Lorimer who assisted us with an understanding of the process for our article(s) and who rightfully retains a strong voice in the show that he has built into one of the best in the world.
Steve makes a very good point regarding sioux's question about why the total competitor numbers remain small - the costs of travel and competing are fully paid for the Arnold and when you add up figure and fitness together the show has expanded considerably in numbers as well as its overall success, in recent years. We have made a few tweaks based on Steve's suggestions while others - well, we would never suggest that one Jenny is retiring and our model did (overwhelmingly) select the other Jenny based on her incredible 2007 accomplishments!! So we stand behind our results, which are designed to say who we think would make it if everyone expressed interest, with a few exceptions that we note in the text. But everyone should understand that rules are made to be broken within any process and that everything is never completely predictable. It is supposed to be fun - this is a sport after all!! Thank you Steve for your very valuable input.
Stephen
Team FigureRX
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Interesting how you failed to mention where you got those posts from, and provided no link.
It's very simple to copy and paste a link into a post.
http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=18591 (http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=18591)
I don't know what your problem is with FigureRX, but I think they do a great job, and will get better.
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Sorry, but it arrived to me via email. I don't go to other sites, don't need to, so settle down. I thought it was funny when someone sent me the email seeing Steve so bent out of shape. A site??? I thought it was a person.
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Sorry, but it arrived to me via email. I don't go to other sites, don't need to, so settle down. I thought it was funny when someone sent me the email seeing Steve so bent out of shape. A site??? I thought it was a person.
So you posted the above, and have not even read FigureRX's article on the Arnold Selection?
http://www.figurerx.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253 (http://www.figurerx.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253)
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So you posted the above, and have not even read FigureRX's article on the Arnold Selection?
Didn't read it, I thought Steve's response was enough. Thanks for the link. I read it, and it is lots of jibber and jabber and goobletalk which says nothing. It reads like someone who assumes a lot, but doesn't really know.
Ratings chart, statistical analysis, computer charts. You think it is so complicated. The committee chooses on the best competitors that are popular, well known, the best, and a few if there are in the area. It isn't rocket science. They choose 15 competitors, some drop out, sometimes they add one.
I did notice that although you like to comment on who posts where on a public forum, they did 'steal' Ironman Magazines pictures, probably without permission, in a report. I guess that is ok with you.
Like I said, I asked if Steve going off on Figure Rx was valid.
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I see nothing wrong with the article.
If something is not accurate, you should point that out.
Yes I think it's ok if FigureRX uses Ironman's photos. Why? Because each photo has the photographers name on it, and www.ironman.com on it.
Didn't read it, I thought Steve's response was enough. Thanks for the link. I read it, and it is lots of jibber and jabber and goobletalk which says nothing. It reads like someone who assumes a lot, but doesn't really know.
Ratings chart, statistical analysis, computer charts. You think it is so complicated. The committee chooses on the best competitors that are popular, well known, the best, and a few if there are in the area. It isn't rocket science. They choose 15 competitors, some drop out, sometimes they add one.
I did notice that although you like to comment on who posts where on a public forum, they did 'steal' Ironman Magazines pictures, probably without permission, in a report. I guess that is ok with you.
Like I said, I asked if Steve going off on Figure Rx was valid.
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Sioux you have gotten alot better about posting links and giving credit, but you tend to snipe topics alot and give no credit. You know taking someones idea on another board and starting the same topic on MD. Just seems like the pot calling the kettle black.
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Sioux you have gotten alot better about posting links and giving credit, but you tend to snipe topics alot and give no credit. You know taking someones idea on another board and starting the same topic on MD. Just seems like the pot calling the kettle black.
Dude if I post someone's quote I ALWAYS LINK, always!
Prove me wrong.
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Sioux you have gotten alot better about posting links and giving credit, but you tend to snipe topics alot and give no credit. You know taking someones idea on another board and starting the same topic on MD. Just seems like the pot calling the kettle black.
Snipe topics?
If I find an article of interest at another board, I will post it at MD and link to the article, not the post where I discovered the article. The poster did not write the article, did he?
If I come across a photo at another board that I end up posting at MD, I will give credit to the photographer.
Find anyone that links back, and gives more credit to others than me, good luck!
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Dude if I post someone's quote I ALWAYS LINK, always!
Prove me wrong.
Say what you will about Sioux, but he has *never* missed a link!
(nor has he ever met a link he didn't like!) ;D
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I stand by what I say. I like that you make MD a great place, but me and others feel you tend to snipe more so than post anything orginal. Just busting some balls more than anything. I could waist my time with a lot of examples, but you being a mod over there can change anything you want so I can't win.
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Should bodybuilding/fitfig have 'sponsors' exemptions' like you see in golf?
Even though FigureRx isn't putting on a 3-day event next year, maybe they could pay $5000 to 'send an athlete to the Arnold'.
Good idea? Yes? No? Maybe so?
I need another latté...and a Tum.
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Should bodybuilding/fitfig have 'sponsors' exemptions' like you see in golf?
Even though FigureRx isn't putting on a 3-day event next year, maybe they could pay $5000 to 'send an athlete to the Arnold'.
Good idea? Yes? No? Maybe so?
I need another latté...and a Tum.
Sounds good to me. What does FigureRx do anyway?
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I stand by what I say. I like that you make MD a great place, but me and others feel you tend to snipe more so than post anything orginal. Just busting some balls more than anything. I could waist my time with a lot of examples, but you being a mod over there can change anything you want so I can't win.
If you stand by what you say show me where I have quoted someone and not posted a link. Show me where I have not given the writer of an article credit (always link back to an article).
Where have I said everything I posted is original?
Jason, let's see some action.
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Should bodybuilding/fitfig have 'sponsors' exemptions' like you see in golf?
Even though FigureRx isn't putting on a 3-day event next year, maybe they could pay $5000 to 'send an athlete to the Arnold'.
Good idea? Yes? No? Maybe so?
No.
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Sioux you do manage to find everything on all the boards and post it on MD. Sioux is pretty good about citing his sources, it's another group that rewrites info and passes it off as their own.
I have three questions:
1) Do you ever sleep?
2) Does MD pay you to post all the news and articles from various sites on their board?
3) Will you be showing up at the Arnold to join the pose down with JC and Tre?
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Didn't read it, I thought Steve's response was enough. Thanks for the link. I read it, and it is lots of jibber and jabber and goobletalk which says nothing. It reads like someone who assumes a lot, but doesn't really know.
Just what is goobletalk?
Sounds like Stephen and Steve smoothed things over. Steve is one of the most respected guys in the industry and knows his stuff. To answer the original question, is it valid? Certainly. Steve puts out accurate information and he cleared the air on things.
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Sioux you do manage to find everything on all the boards and post it on MD. Sioux is pretty good about citing his sources, it's another group that rewrites info and passes it off as their own.
I have three questions:
1) Do you ever sleep?
Yeah usually the worse hours.
2) Does MD pay you to post all the news and articles from various sites on their board?
No.
3) Will you be showing up at the Arnold to join the pose down with JC and Tre?
lol
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I take it that FigureRX is Stephen, which I have left a message for him in his Chicago office, but does not bother to call back. I think that posting something on a bulletin board is fine, as long as you put it as a rumour, and not expect readers to think it is fact when the info is wrong. I am all for promoting the figure and fitness competitions and athletes from every avenue, aka MD, FigureRx, Hardbody, Getbig, but it is also important to the info correct too.
Bulletin boards are for public information, so if someone posts something somewhere, such is life. Over the years, I have posted lots of items in the News section or Picture section of the board, and hundreds of people take it. I don't have a problem with they credit where they got it from.
FigureRX likes to stir things up, by implying political dealing, especially in California, which is where I live. That is uncool. The post he put up was interesting, and a good story. Perhaps we can all meet at the Ironman or Arnold, and just enjoy promoting the sport of figure and fitness.
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Sioux you do manage to find everything on all the boards and post it on MD. Sioux is pretty good about citing his sources, it's another group that rewrites info and passes it off as their own.
Agreed ;)
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Anyone who reads our Arnold article(s) with an open mind will know what they are and what they are not .... they are a description of the selection process, a historical analysis, and then a model where we plug in info and see who the model predicts would make it if everyone expressed interest. There aren't any statements of fact, or statements on who applied (unless we have talked to a specific competitor) - it's for fun and to provide a different perspective. Since we don't state our model results as facts, I am not sure why a few people are construing them as such. Except for a couple people we've had a very positive response .... we do understand that predictions and previews can be risky business, they're never ever going to be completely accurate, but we'll continue to work at them and improve, and construct them in what we hope is a respectful way.
Siouxcountry "sniping" - I have never heard that accusation before. The positive environment that he has created over at MD is precisely the opposite of sniping, and the reason why, in my opinion, their boards are growing by leaps and bounds. It's a great place for positive exchanges, especially for the female athletes. I don't mean to be promoting a competitor board, I just think it is important that siouxcountry is recognized for what he has been able to accomplish over there - and the athletes appreciate it very much, everything I have heard has been overwhelmingly positive.
Regarding sources, we do credit tons of places all over our site - for our Arnold articles alone we credited multiple sources of our research including Jim Lorimer, Ironman, MD, and Muscle Memory. We are very, very careful not to use information from a couple of sites that have expressed sensitivity, regardless of whether it is credited or not. If information comes from the NPC or IFBB, such as competitor lists or other disseminated facts on contests or rules, etc., then we cite it as such as well. Those things are not secretly funnelled only through certain sources nor should they be. Overall, we view this as a team effort, on behalf of the athletes, and love working with others to achieve those goals whenever possible, but we understand that there a few who do not share that goal and are working in their own self interests. That happens in every business. Ron is not one of those people, I know he shares our goals of coverage and expansion of the industry and he has been very kind to some of the athletes on our team while they have been out in Cali and we appreciate that.
I'm happy to discuss with anyone who has taken the time to learn about the company (if you think it is just "Stephen," which seems to be a perception that pops up only on Getbig LOL, then you haven't taken the time to look at the site and get to know us :o). TK, hopefully you're not *the* TK, the photographer who works with Femflex sometimes since if you were you would know better - but whoever you are drop me a note and I'll send a number so we can chat. On the site we're up front with our goals, which include promoting more muscle in figure and helping athletes get to the stage without stress and to assist them to compete more often.
Tre' feel free to fact check me too it is late at night. And let's save some cash for Femsport since we're bringing a team that we guarantee will win. 8) Scratch that, put us in a figure division (not against a Tazzie/Annie R/Robin C dream team) and we'll set some records that won't be broken - can you imagine a "figure" team that includes Ali, Jamie, Lindsey, Dani et al? Everyone is in and it's going to be something to watch. Just look at their training journals and you will see what I mean!! And $5k for the Arnold might be worth it if it includes air fare from down under - would love to see Arina and Rosa on stage.
Sorry to take so long to get over here and respond, I just found out about this thread. G'nite.
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Definitely a different TK. FF's TK doesn't involve himself with any drama at all.
Stephen - I think what some of these guys resent is the fact that you're putting in work where they are not. I know it sounds petty, tacky, and downright weird, but I think there's some truth in that statement.
Since you're not involved in the Arnold selection process, I thought it was fun to read your list predictions as well as your rationale. Whereas Isaac or I would've lazed out and said something along the lines of "I pick her, her, her, and her...because they're hot", you gave a more critical analysis on how your choices made your list.
I'm not sure why anyone wants to begrudge you that.
Holy f'n bleep - it's 3am!!
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Sorry to take so long to get over here and respond, I just found out about this thread. G'nite.
We all know THIS isn't true but hey the bulk of your response was aight.
Making predictions someone (and by someone I mean a competitor - that's for you smart ass Tre) will be unhappy if not included. It gets people talking and let's be real there isn't a whole lot to talk about when it comes to figure. I can see your charts and graphs applicable with figure if you like.
The fitness portion I don't feel you're able to do the same thing. The fitness routines were left out of the FigureRX review and comments. Anyone who follows fitness knows the routines are a large part of where a competitor places and to accurately give stats on that - you'd have to break down the 45 second and two minute routines, which obviously have more variables.
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Malacarne was on his list - so Stephen is aces with me!
;D
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Yepper, we entered all the IFBB scores for the different rounds separately. So we didn't have to comment on the routines, we just let the previous IFBB scores be a factor - essentially the experts / judges made those comments for us. Of course we discovered the obvious - that competitors who are consistent across the rounds (great physiques, great routines) were more likely to be selected. That's why Julie Lohre almost busted the charts, her consistency in all facets. :o Will that transfer into reality? We will wait and see.
The fitness portion I don't feel you're able to do the same thing. The fitness routines were left out of the FigureRX review and comments. Anyone who follows fitness knows the routines are a large part of where a competitor places and to accurately give stats on that - you'd have to break down the 45 second and two minute routines, which obviously have more variables.
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I don't remember for sure but I think that the previous comment was about the Palm Beach Pro, and we had not seen routines from several of the competitors - so yeah it would not have made sense to comment. We did not know much about Michele Mayberry, for example, then she put on a great show and is now a favorite. Now we're talking about the Arnold, so it is likely that we have seen the vast majority of the athletes who will be there. But that's irrelevent to the Arnold selection articles, where the results are based on athlete characteristics and past judges scores, not anyone's personal opinions. Any comments on routines would come in the preview article, I presume.
Isaac, hope you have a great holiday weekend - wish I could be in Steamboat for Xmas like in previous years, love it there, you are lucky to be in Colorado during ski season!
Sure. Or it could be what you said back in October when asked to make Fitness Predictions. ;)
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Steph, My friend, I can't tell you how good it is to see you. I gotta be honest with you, I thought you were dead.
Denny Crane.
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Steph, My friend, I can't tell you how good it is to see you. I gotta be honest with you, I thought you were dead.
Denny Crane.
No, Denny darling they are not, but I sure wish their website was. ::)
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Lastly, six is the incorrect number of members of the selection committee.
How many and who is part of this selection committee?
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Six plus Jim Lorimer, which makes seven.
The six do not wish to have their names disclosed :-X, at least not by us. Maybe Lift can get away with it.
Lastly, six is the incorrect number of members of the selection committee.
How many and who is part of this selection committee?
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Isaac?
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Six plus Jim Lorimer, which makes seven.
The six do not wish to have their names disclosed :-X, at least not by us. Maybe Lift can get away with it.
What are you trying to say Stephen? :'(
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I love it when I miss a quality inside joke.
Secret selection committees are, like, totally cool.
Seriously - if they are not known, that means that they cannot be deliberately influenced by schmoozing, favors, etc.
But if a manager like, say, Stephen, knows members of the committee, then wouldn't that potentially give him an advantage in helping his competitors to secure invites?
Just aksin'...
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You had to bump this back up to the top Tre'? :P
I really think that the only way to do it is to have a private committee, not only so they can't be influenced but also for the committee members' benefit - they could potentially be approached by a lot of people trying to get into the show, or to get others into the show. And that could be really annoying for them.
I love it when I miss a quality inside joke.
Secret selection committees are, like, totally cool.
Seriously - if they are not known, that means that they cannot be deliberately influenced by schmoozing, favors, etc.
But if a manager like, say, Stephen, knows members of the committee, then wouldn't that potentially give him an advantage in helping his competitors to secure invites?
Just aksin'...