STANDING SHOULDER BARBELL PRESS. YAY OR NAY????????????????

[Donny]

the Cuban press is another interesting move. I personally like to clean the bar from waist height and press(cleans).. along with the Bradford press the cuban press is good. Not exercises to go over board with weight but i like to pre fatigue my shoulders/traps before it with a Tri set of laterals. just how i like it.

[Beefjake]

I think clean and press is a great move. However if i do a Bodybuilding type split i will train and tune in on my delts/traps. The Powerlifters argue the point it trains the whole body and core strength.. i agree too with this to a point. Lifting stupid weights for the sake of lifting a 1 rep max or max strength is asking for trouble however. The idea of lifting "Heavy" with a few exercises is not new but i have never known anyone who built an all round physique with this type of training. "Brawn" sure but not a well balanced physique. My point is Local Hero hit the nail on the head.

Cleans canbe quite hard for a bodybuilder type trainer. As your chest, shoulder and upperback gains more mass it is harder and harder to make the barbell rest easily on shoulders. As it should be on regular cleans.

[jpm101]

The Cuban Pres is an movement that many athletes do in training, almost a staple in some of their workouts. From gymnast, baseball, boxers, etc.

There are two version of the CB. One is the Cuban rotation, without the press and the complete version with the press.  Don't really have to include the actual press...but if that makes you happy, go for it.  

Can use a BB, EZ bar, DB's or bands. Seen a couple of guys use chains, which can be a progressive way of doing them. What ever you choice please start very, very light, because it's really not a lifting exercise in it's self. It hits the smaller, but very important , muscles of the shoulder girdle. Which in return benefits the rotator cuff. Always good insurance to include one for or another as a general warmup. You will get stronger, but do advance the weight with caution.

Check the mirror out to be sure the elbows are always straight out and in line with the shoulder girdle. If the elbows drop, even a bit, you not doing CB's. Also try  raising the chest out a bit when doing these.

Good luck

[chaos]

Cuban press looks like a good warm up for military presses.

[jpm101]

Chaos:  Si!

Another movement for increased flexibility before any serious overhead pressing is the Press Behind The Neck (Behind The Neck Press) with a light exercise dowel (wood...plastic) or a light bar.

Wanting to go for  the full ROM, from the mid to upper traps to an overhead slight lockout, remembering that this is only a stretch. Going for a higher rep range, most guy's have very tight shoulders/joints which may invite injuries over time. Even benches can gain benefit from these and the Cuban Press .

Regular Presses Behind The Neck can also help to improve the strength when into more serious benching.

Good luck.

[DroppingPlates]

Super setting standing front BB presses with wide grip upright rows is one of my favorite shoulder routines. I often start with some light high-rep rotator cuff work.

[jpm101]

That's also one of my favorite shoulder combo's, SS style, for a good amount of years. Getting your push and pull focus on the 3 heads of the delts. Also have done Behind the neck presses with upright rows.

I have been using an EZ bar for the uprights. Some may have a problem with upright rows because they use too wide a hand gripping and allow the bar to raise out and away from the body (too much stress on the shoulders). Want the bar almost touching the body going up and returning to the starting position.

If you would like to experiment with quad sets for the shoulders, might suggest the following. Good for about a 6 to 8 week scheme. Pure BB'ing with a moderate weight.

1)front raise (BB or DB)
2) front press
3) Lateral raise
4) Upright row

Each exercise one right after another.  2 to 3 cycle with a 90 to 120 second break between each cycle. 8-10 reps each.  Should look like there are balloons under the shoulders after the finish.

Could do tri sets,which are also good, but so many guys don't quite understand the correct idea of these.

An advance form of pre-exhaust would be lateral raises, rear raises (bend at a 90 degree angle) and upright rows. Uprights hit the read delts fairly well, so with the lateral rear raises, with uprights you have a good combo.

Always the old standby of lateral raises with presses behind the neck...one of the original concepts of doing pre-exhause in the first place. And lateral raises with upright rows, of course.

Good Luck.

[DroppingPlates]

1)front raise (BB or DB)
2) front press
3) Lateral raise
4) Upright row

So, first an isolation movement and then a compound for the same shoulder head... I should try this pre-exhaustion on my delts.
Thanks for the suggestion

[Donny]

another great way to train Delts or any other muscle group is POF training... positions of Flexion approach. for Deltas...

midrange: overhead pressing
Stretch:    Bottom of a one-arm incline lateral raise- arm across the front of the Torso
Contraction: top position of an upright row to nose level -upper arm out to the side and angled slightly upward.

I think in shoulder training itīs not just the exercise but the training approach used. i am a firm believer in finding the "sweet spot" the peak contraction i think Weider called it... also training traps i use a simple superset of Shrugs and close grip upright rows.

[Dr Dutch]

So, first an isolation movement and then a compound for the same shoulder head... I should try this pre-exhaustion on my delts.
Thanks for the suggestion

I do push-presses from the front but move the BB back during the movement.
This exercise got a name, don't recall it. Never end/start behind the neck.
No good for you.

And never do these cold. I do them after chest, no need for a delt isolation first this way.

says dr Dutch

[ritch]

another great way to train Delts or any other muscle group is POF training... positions of Flexion approach. for Deltas...

midrange: overhead pressing
Stretch:    Bottom of a one-arm incline lateral raise- arm across the front of the Torso
Contraction: top position of an upright row to nose level -upper arm out to the side and angled slightly upward.

I think in shoulder training itīs not just the exercise but the training approach used. i am a firm believer in finding the "sweet spot" the peak contraction i think Weider called it... also training traps i use a simple superset of Shrugs and close grip upright rows.

Going to get back to that training...

[DroppingPlates]

I do push-presses from the front but move the BB back during the movement.
This exercise got a name, don't recall it. Never end/start behind the neck.
No good for you.

And never do these cold. I do them after chest, no need for a delt isolation first this way.

says dr Dutch

Behind the neck movements (presses & pull downs) cause a conflict in your rotator cuff area. The same goes for upright rows with a small grip.
I think you're referring to the overhead press.

[jpm101]

Might notice that if one foot was ahead (or behind) the other, or both knees were bent , even slightly, than the  dynamic of the overhead press would chance with reduced stress on the lower back and even the shoulder girdle. . If the heels were raised (wearing Olympic style  heel raised shoes/boots or using a 2X4, plates), than the path of the bar might be improved, with less stress all the way around.

The Press Behind the neck need not have the bar travel below the upper traps or even much below the upper neck.. Having  too much of a wide grip on the bar can also cause a problem with the shoulder girdle. Even front presses might be better served with a shoulder wide grip. Too wide, too much stress on joints.

Same can be said of the upright row. A middle grip seems the best selection for most. A too wide a grip allows more stress on the shoulders. Also keeping the bar close to the body (almost touching) will reduce most problems. When the bar is raised out and away from the body is when extra joint stress may be felt. . The BB upright row is not the same as Hi-pulls, might be some confusion there. Either exercise is an excellent lateral head deltoid movement, along with the traps and even the biceps. Been using a EZ bar for upright, and seems to be working well.

In either movement, OHP's or Upright rows, a proper warmup and stretch should be required by everyone. Shoulder tightness is very common, even in BB'ers. Best way to avoid injuries, in the long run.

Good Luck.

[Dr Dutch]

Behind the neck movements (presses & pull downs) cause a conflict in your rotator cuff area. The same goes for upright rows with a small grip.
I think you're referring to the overhead press.

this is the movement I mean. Staying upright, don't let it turn into something like an extreme-incline chest press....the push-part is very usefull to get behind the lower sticking point. The rest should be in control all the way........
So not like an olympic weightlifting move....keep the tension on the delts.
It's one of my favourite BB exercises.
But keep it safe, take care of lower lumbar too......
You know your stuff, DP ! 

[DroppingPlates]

this is the movement I mean. Staying upright, don't let it turn into something like an extreme-incline chest press....the push-part is very usefull to get behind the lower sticking point. The rest should be in control all the way........
So not like an olympic weightlifting move....keep the tension on the delts.
It's one of my favourite BB exercises.
But keep it safe, take care of lower lumbar too......
You know your stuff, DP ! 

Maybe I'm biased, since I never did a serious set of overheads, but my preference to keep the tension on my delts is actually the reason that I don't lock out, esp since I have joint issues already (who hasn't after 20 years of lifting?). However, I will try some overheads next time while holding my torso tight, to find out how they feel.
Well, I know some safety basics, but I realize there's still much  to learn when it comes to stability & flexibility training. Lately I'm following powerlifter/trainer Chris Duffin, an interesting guy.

[Dr Dutch]

Maybe I'm biased, since I never did a serious set of overheads, but my preference to keep the tension on my delts is actually the reason that I don't lock out, esp since I have joint issues already (who hasn't after 20 years of lifting?). However, I will try some overheads next time while holding my torso tight, to find out how they feel.
Well, I know some safety basics, but I realize there's still much  to learn when it comes to stability & flexibility training. Lately I'm following powerlifter/trainer Chris Duffin, an interesting guy.

Chris Duffy...??   

[DroppingPlates]

Chris Duffy...??   

Well played

An interview with Chris. Not just a dumb meat head but an interesting and thoughtful guy.

[Dr Dutch]

Well played

An interview with Chris. Not just a dumb meat head but an interesting and thoughtful guy.

Indeed, DP. Listened to a bit, will continue tomorrow.

[DroppingPlates]

Indeed, DP. Listened to a bit, will continue tomorrow.

Sharing is caring!

[Dr Dutch]

Indeed, DP. Listened to a bit, will continue tomorrow.

Good stuff, mr DP. We can support each other, that's better than to break each other down....says Dr Dutch.

[DroppingPlates]

Good stuff, mr DP. We can support each other, that's better than to break each other down....says Dr Dutch.

It's called constructive/progressive feedback

[Dr Dutch]

It's called constructive/progressive feedback

It is..

[Dr Dutch]

I've been doing the push-press for some time now.

I think is the best delt exercise there is. I also do heavy wide-grip upright rows....great exercise, I never had any problems.
Military plus upright row.....the perfect 2 for shouders.....all it takes is to get to heavy weights. Be patient.

Says Dr Dutch, MD ans MSc