how long can you go btw bodypart workouts and not lose strength and size

[dj181]

for me it's a little over two weeks

[ritch]

ya got no size to lose anyway.
Ha!

[dj181]

ya got no size to lose anyway.
Ha!

lol

Mike Mentzer says you don't start losing size and strength for up to six weeks

i'd say it's more like three weeks

[ritch]

lol

Mike Mentzer says you don't start losing size and strength for up to six weeks

i'd say it's more like three weeks

6 weeks??? Holy hell man, I lose size faster than anyone it seems. A week off the gym means more than 7 days the muscle was hit and when I start back again, I look deflated and my weight is down usually 7lbs.

Yes, lots of glycogen is lost, but 2 weeks off really brings me back weaker. Gotta start lower and then peak on the 3rd week back as too hard will cause the muscle to not recover by the next week.

[dj181]

6 weeks??? Holy hell man, I lose size faster than anyone it seems. A week off the gym means more than 7 days the muscle was hit and when I start back again, I look deflated and my weight is down usually 7lbs.

Yes, lots of glycogen is lost, but 2 weeks off really brings me back weaker. Gotta start lower and then peak on the 3rd week back as too hard will cause the muscle to not recover by the next week.

the question was how long between bodyparts, not between workouts

and when you say... "2 weeks off really brings me back weaker" do you mean two weeks completely off, no training at all?

i've had a few guys tell me that they won't start losing size and strength til after three weeks off btw bodyparts

[pestosterone]

When I was natty I could gain strength if  directly  trained muscles in a 9 day rotation once every 9 days. I never spread it out any further to find out if I would lose

[ritch]

the question was how long between bodyparts, not between workouts

and when you say... "2 weeks off really brings me back weaker" do you mean two weeks completely off, no training at all?

i've had a few guys tell me that they won't start losing size and strength til after three weeks off btw bodyparts

I train everything once every 7 days, but day 5 of not being trained, it looks like it needs to be but gotta wait due to other muscle groups being trained. I am pure ecto man....

[dj181]

When I was natty I could gain strength if  directly  trained muscles in a 9 day rotation once every 9 days. I never spread it out any further to find out if I would lose

what was your split?

[pestosterone]

Chest back/off legs (did deadlifts on leg day)  /off /shoulders traps/ off/ arms abs calves /off repeat.

[Yamcha]

I think what you are eating/drinking also plays a role during the layoff.
I notice my body goes to shit quickly when I am eating poorly and drinking copious amounts of alcohol, like on vacation.

[jpm101]

Estimated from 14 to 18 days the body reverts back to type. Type meaning the natural state of the genetics  we were given at birth.  Example: if born naturally muscular, skinny, fat and the dozen of combo's in between..the body will seek to return back to that natural state.

 Can always improve the genetics, as weight training primes the body to advance to it's greater potential. But genetics, for each of us, have their limits and potential. After stopping working out (even for a short period of time) the body will not keep all the muscle and strength gain up to that same training level while serious training. The body does not always like change, so given the opportunity to revert back to it's original natural state, it will do so.

Advancing age will have an awful lot to do with retaining size and strength also. Genetics plays a role here. Looking at the great Larry Scott (RIP) in old age, the average person would never think he was one of the all time great BB'ers. Huge massive arms & delts. He made the most of his somewhat limited genetics and became a champion  squeezing everything out of his average genetics he was born with.

The 9 day cycle, as pestosterone suggest, has worked for many guy's where other training methods have not. The whole point is proper recovery time. Like anything else, it may or may not, work well for you.


Good Luck

[ritch]

When I was natty I could gain strength if  directly  trained muscles in a 9 day rotation once every 9 days. I never spread it out any further to find out if I would lose

I've done that. Arms shrink too much. Good for legs in my case, that's it.

[jpm101]

This might apply to ritch, don't know his whole training situation. But does apply to a lot of BB'ers.

Arms shrunk because they were accustomed to the regular pump they were getting from workout to workout, like a sponge holds water.Not actually gaining true muscle mass. If you lost size in the arms (within a short 9 day cycle), than that was not true muscle tissue in the first place. A problem that most BB'ers have when relying too much on the pump in any workout. Or a arm measurement.

For a better judge of what your real arm measurement is, measure your arm as soon as you wake up in the morning. Try measuring the arm with a narrow steel tape as first choice. A tailors tape is also good. This is when the arm should be stone cold, no pump or anything like that. No brushing the teeth, washing the face, shower, etc..

Want to shock the ego, than measure the arm with it hanging along side the body, straight down. This would be a natural position, not a flexed and bunched up muscle measurement.

Good Luck.

[dj181]

Estimated from 14 to 18 days the body reverts back to type. Type meaning the natural state of the genetics  we were given at birth.  Example: if born naturally muscular, skinny, fat and the dozen of combo's in between..the body will seek to return back to that natural state.

 Can always improve the genetics, as weight training primes the body to advance to it's greater potential. But genetics, for each of us, have their limits and potential. After stopping working out (even for a short period of time) the body will not keep all the muscle and strength gain up to that same training level while serious training. The body does not always like change, so given the opportunity to revert back to it's original natural state, it will do so.

Advancing age will have an awful lot to do with retaining size and strength also. Genetics plays a role here. Looking at the great Larry Scott (RIP) in old age, the average person would never think he was one of the all time great BB'ers. Huge massive arms & delts. He made the most of his somewhat limited genetics and became a champion  squeezing everything out of his average genetics he was born with.

The 9 day cycle, as pestosterone suggest, has worked for many guy's where other training methods have not. The whole point is proper recovery time. Like anything else, it may or may not, work well for you.


Good Luck

Mentzer said that muscle decompensation doesn't start til six weeks after not training a bodypart. He used to have his clients train like this... chest and back two days off delts and arms two days off the kegs two days off. He said they stopped making progress on upper body after a month or so, but that their legs kept growing, so he figured out that the upper body workouts overlapped with each other and caused the stop in gains while the legs had no interruption so they kept responding, so he went to a upper lower split training each muscle every eight to ten days and even every fourteen days or more....

[pestosterone]

Menzter probly trained really hard and intense enough that he needed that Iong to recover.

U probly don't need to follow this advise going off your comments of needing to have a trainer push u to get results.

[dj181]

Menzter probly trained really hard and intense enough that he needed that Iong to recover.

U probly don't need to follow this advise going off your comments of needing to have a trainer push u to get results.

yep, but the thing is i work with this trainer twice a week and we push past failure and do other high intensity techniques, so i need recovery time, and i now train three days a week instead of five or six

what's funny is that we didn't do quads for two weeks ad they came back much stronger after two weeks off from quad training

[jpm101]

That's correct. The over lapping came to the point of not allow enough recovery time for the upper body. Though the body always acts as a unit, nothing is independent really. The CNS, when called upon, can affect all of these units. The key to progression progress in lifting is the CNS. I know some think that  over training is unlikely and almost impossible...than that's their belief. I hold completely opposite views (for whatever that's worth).

If thinking that your only working chest on chest day, you are mistaken, sorry to say. To a lesser degree even the lower back & abs are involve. And of course, to a greater degree, the triceps and all three heads of the delts, lats and even traps.

Now 6 weeks, without any activity, for the body to begin the process of reverting back to it's natural body type, might be a little longer than most accept. But I can't disagree with Mentzer, he had his own views.  Anyone who has ever been in a arm or leg cast can give witness to the absolute shrinkage of that body part, in  a some what short period of time..

I've had good luck with the following training idea, which can allow a little longer rest period between muscle groups than normal. Your keeping the workout short and to the point. Not too many sets and not too many exercises. Point of fact, people will probably make faster progress if they cut their workout down to at least 1/4 to a 1/2 of the movements performed. Instead of 18-20 sets per body part, try cutting that down to 9-10 sets per body part max.

Monday
Upper body

Wednsday
lower body

Friday
Upper body

The following Monday
lower body

Wednsday
upper body

Friday
lower body

Alternate the next workout, starting with upper body again..etc, etc,etc...

Good Luck.

[dj181]

Platz talking about leg training...

By actually placing less emphasis on my legs in the '80s, even to the point where I would not train legs a month prior to an event, they got bigger, more detailed, sharper, saran wrapped looking; it was almost like steel cords were on there with cuts in them. Amazing stuff.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tom_platz_interview1.htm

[dj181]

more from Platz

But as I developed more of an advanced routine, I decided I was only going to train legs once a week. I was trying to de-emphasize my leg girth, if you will, and put more energy into my upper body. In fact, I squatted every other week – only twice a month – and I got progressively stronger in the squat, which was almost mind-boggling, scary

http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2008/11/tom-platz-on-squatting.html

[pestosterone]

Yea but platz would squat for hours at a time didn't he. Like 3+hours

[jpm101]

That's a great article give to us from dj181. Platz shows more common sense than most for what suits his needs,body and his workouts than most other BB'ers.  The older BB'ing vets like Platz could make a few adjustments in the grip/hands, elbow placement, foot stance, etc and change an average exercise to a exceptional one for them. Lots of little tricks they learned by experience.

The usual protocol was for 30 minutes, sometimes 45 minutes, with keeping busy most of that time.  . I'm sure some guy's have done a hour. This type training is usually directed to compound movements. Which are growing exercises, like squats, DL's, SLDL's, overhead presses, rows, benches, etc..

Have suggest BB Hack squats for quite a while now on GB. I think of it as a reverse DL, with more focus on the thighs. Another benefit being, the knees are out of the way.  Some lifters find that compensating for hitting the  knees (or shins) the path of the bar becomes too far out/away from the body, and the lower back may receive more stress on it, in the regular DL.  The trap/shrug bar would also solve this type of problem. The grip is more natural, with the thumbs pointing forward. I do BB Hack squats with heels raised (at times) which seems to bring out the tear shape in the lower quads much better.

Good Luck.

[dj181]

Yea but platz would squat for hours at a time didn't he. Like 3+hours

he'd basically do three or four warm up sets and then two all out sets per exercise.... squats, hacks and extensions