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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on June 07, 2013, 03:53:26 PM
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Shameful.
Ex-Minn. Gov. Jesse Ventura sues Navy SEAL Chris Kyle’s widow
By Jessica Chasmar-The Washington Times Sunday, June 2, 2013
Former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura has decided to substitute Chris Kyle’s wife, Taya, in a defamation suit he has filed against the slain Navy SEAL.
Mr. Ventura last year sued the decorated sailor, who authored “American Sniper,” claiming that the book’s description of a California bar fight defamed him, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports.
Kyle, nicknamed America’s “most lethal sniper,” was killed at a Texas shooting range in February by a young veteran he was mentoring.
“Although Kyle is deceased, his ‘American Sniper’ book continues to sell and it is soon to be made into a movie,” read the claim filed last week by attorney David Bradley Olsen.
Mr. Ventura’s attorneys said the claims live on despite Kyle’s death, and “it would be unjust to permit the estate to continue to profit from Kyle’s wrongful conduct and to leave Governor Ventura without redress for ongoing damage to his reputation,” the Star Tribune reports.
Mrs. Kyle’s attorney filed a response Wednesday, calling the development a disappointment.
“Continuing this action will serve no useful purpose,” lawyer John Borger wrote, “and likely will promote public perception of Jesse Ventura as someone who has little or no regard for the feelings and welfare of surviving family members of deceased war heroes.”
A hearing is slated for June 17 in Minneapolis, the Star Tribune reports.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/2/ex-minn-gov-jesse-ventura-sues-navy-seal-chris-kyl/
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What a fucking classless scumbag. I lost all respect for him. Side wasn't even a SEAL.
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What a fucking classless scumbag. I lost all respect for him. Side wasn't even a SEAL.
Yep. You need to pick your battles. This is one he really shouldn't be fighting.
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I don't know. I'm mixed about this. Very tacky but business is business. If it didnt happen or happen the way Kyle said it did, Ventura should have the right to clear his name.
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I don't know. I'm mixed about this. Very tacky but business is business. If it didnt happen or happen the way Kyle said it did, Ventura should have the right to clear his name.
I can see both sides of this, although he doesn't really need to clear his name. I doubt he has lost anything as a result of the allegations made against him. It sounds like he just wants money. And now it will come at the expense of a widow and her kids. Pretty bad PR move. Also selfish. Shortsighted. Heartless. Etc.
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Jesse looks like a complete tool here.
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I can see both sides of this, although he doesn't really need to clear his name. I doubt he has lost anything as a result of the allegations made against him. It sounds like he just wants money. And now it will come at the expense of a widow and her kids. Pretty bad PR move. Also selfish. Shortsighted. Heartless. Etc.
I see your point. Ventura comes off looking like a vindictive ass.
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He has a right to clear his name....just because Chris died because of his stupidity doesn't mean his lies should stand
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You can't just automatically call this shameful. ::) If Jesse didn't do this he needs to clear his name and there is nothing wrong with doing that. You don't just put a stop on this kind of shit because the person who accused you died. Nowhere does that happen so I don't know what some of you are thinking. It's not about going after Kyle's widow ::)
I know several people made up their minds on the notion that Ventura did do this from DAY 1!!!! which in itself is pretty fucked up.
I don't have a problem with a person pushing a case forward to get at the truth either way.
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she should just remove that line from the book. His book sounds like it's terrific. it doesn't need a tale of a bar fight.
if the fight really happened (do we have any evidence?), it would be easy to prove. Or just pull those pages out. Not a huge deal.
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she should just remove that line from the book. His book sounds like it's terrific. it doesn't need a tale of a bar fight.
if the fight really happened (do we have any evidence?), it would be easy to prove. Or just pull those pages out. Not a huge deal.
kinda too late for that.
Damage is done. There's no shortage of people who think this shit happened and have admonished Ventura for it.
He's totally within bounds to try to clear his name if he didn't do this.
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good for ventura,that's his right.it's funny how the ones on here complaining about rights would have a problem with this ::)
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Yeah, Ventura has every right to clear his name if it's not true. Just cause Kyle died doesn't mean it should stop.
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He has a right to clear his name....just because Chris died because of his stupidity doesn't mean his lies should stand
How exactly do you know he lied? Fucking Ventura is persona non grata in the SEAL community. And please expound on the how "Chris dies because of his stupidity". Here's an idea, don't speak on subjects have not clue one about.
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How exactly do you know he lied? Fucking Ventura is persona non grata in the SEAL community. And please expound on the how "Chris dies because of his stupidity". Here's an idea, don't speak on subjects have not clue one about.
Bringing a guy along with PTSD to a rifle range is stupid. As far as whether he lied or not, that's the whole point of the lawsuit. His wife is still profiting off of his book and reaping the benefits of Chris Kyle's story.
Personally, I think he lied because no one else has came forward to say it actually happenned and the owner never witnessed anything of the sort.
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I assure you, not many fucks are given.
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Bringing a guy along with PTSD to a rifle range is stupid. As far as whether he lied or not, that's the whole point of the lawsuit. His wife is still profiting off of his book and reaping the benefits of Chris Kyle's story.
Personally, I think he lied because no one else has came forward to say it actually happenned and the owner never witnessed anything of the sort.
Only a simpleton like yourself would buy into the MSM narrative, that all vets are ticking time bombs ::) From what I can gather about his service in the marines:
Reserve Marine with the MOS 2111 Small Arms Repairer/Technician, a far cry from scout sniper status. The odds of this assclown having PTSD from combat are about as good as you having PTSD from combat. Kyle didn't know Routh, he knew Routh's mother who asked him to help her son. Who knows what kind of horse shit he told his parents to explain being a fucking looser.
PTSD has not one fucking thing to do with this act of cold blooded murder.
The truth will come to light about this whole episode, and I'll put my money on Chris Kyle
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Only a simpleton like yourself would buy into the MSM narrative, that all vets are ticking time bombs ::) From what I can gather about his service in the marines:
Reserve Marine with the MOS 2111 Small Arms Repairer/Technician, a far cry from scout sniper status. The odds of this assclown having PTSD from combat are about as good as you having PTSD from combat. Kyle didn't know Routh, he knew Routh's mother who asked him to help her son. Who knows what kind of horse shit he told his parents to explain being a fucking looser.
PTSD has not one fucking thing to do with this act of cold blooded murder.
The truth will come to light about this whole episode, and I'll put my money on Chris Kyle
brahhahahahaha somebody is making up his own facts :D :D :D I guess we know who the simpleton is
Mr. Routh, 25, and his relatives told the police in recent weeks and months that he had been deeply troubled and was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, according to court documents. He had a series of run-ins with the authorities in parts of North Texas, and had threatened to kill himself at least once, police records show.
Mr. Routh had been undergoing treatment at the Dallas V.A. Medical Center and Green Oaks Hospital, a psychiatric center in Dallas. On Jan. 24, Mr. Routh was released from the Dallas V.A. center but soon returned, and he was again released on Jan. 29, said his lawyers, R. Shay Isham and J. Warren St. John. On both occasions, Mr. Routh’s father and mother, Raymond and Jodi Routh, had protested his release, the lawyers said.
“She was begging them not to let him loose,” Mr. Isham said.
Four days after Mr. Routh’s release, Mr. Kyle, 38, and a friend, Chad Littlefield, 35, took Mr. Routh to a rural shooting range to help the young man, one of the ways Mr. Kyle often assisted troubled veterans. For reasons that remain unclear, the authorities said, Mr. Routh turned a semiautomatic handgun on the two men, shooting both multiple times and fleeing in Mr. Kyle’s truck before he was captured hours later near his home in the Dallas suburb of Lancaster.
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If Ventura feels strongly about pursuing it, he should do that.
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If Ventura feels strongly about pursuing it, he should do that.
Going after a dead mans wife for something her husband said? Pretty petty, and pretty classless, especially when the guy basically built his career on a lie, the guy was never a SEAL (He was UDT, which is not at all the same thing, although he did go through SOME of the same training SEALs do)
Even if Ventura is telling the truth (which I doubt), the guy is fucking dead, just move on. Its not like everyone is going to suddenly go "Oh, he sued the widow, he must be telling the truth, I believe him now!"
The damage is done, and he's just making himself look like an ass by going after someone that had NOTHING to do with the situation.
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Going after a dead mans wife for something her husband said? Pretty petty, and pretty classless, especially when the guy basically built his career on a lie, the guy was never a SEAL (He was UDT, which is not at all the same thing, although he did go through SOME of the same training SEALs do)
Even if Ventura is telling the truth (which I doubt), the guy is fucking dead, just move on. Its not like everyone is going to suddenly go "Oh, he sued the widow, he must be telling the truth, I believe him now!"
The damage is done, and he's just making himself look like an ass by going after someone that had NOTHING to do with the situation.
I wonder if you would feel that way if you were a public figure?
I don't know who lied and who didn't, but shouldn't the parties at least have the opportunity to resolve the issue in court?
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I wonder if you would feel that way if you were a public figure?
I don't know who lied and who didn't, but shouldn't the parties at least have the opportunity to resolve the issue in court?
I'm pretty sure I would, if the man who had slandered me had already died in the way this man did. His beef was with the man, not the wife.
Me personally, if someone talks shit and I know it's false, I just state my case and let it be, because people are going to believe whichever story they want, and no one is going to convince them any differently without some for of hard evidence.
Is going after the wife really going to change anything? Are people going to suddenly stop believing the SEALs story? They wont, they'll just think that Ventura is that much more of a douche for attacking a widow that didn't do shit to him. Plus, it's not like Ventura has a shitload of credibility anyway, as I said, dude basically built his career on a lie, and he's out there talking about all kinds of conspiracy theories all over the place.
At this point, it'd be best for him to just move on, he's not going to make himself look any better and he's not going to change anything. Suck it up and move on.
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Going after a dead mans wife for something her husband said? Pretty petty, and pretty classless, especially when the guy basically built his career on a lie, the guy was never a SEAL (He was UDT, which is not at all the same thing, although he did go through SOME of the same training SEALs do)
Even if Ventura is telling the truth (which I doubt), the guy is fucking dead, just move on. Its not like everyone is going to suddenly go "Oh, he sued the widow, he must be telling the truth, I believe him now!"
The damage is done, and he's just making himself look like an ass by going after someone that had NOTHING to do with the situation.
If she's still profiting from the lie, he has a right to defend himself.
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I'm pretty sure I would, if the man who had slandered me had already died in the way this man did. His beef was with the man, not the wife.
Me personally, if someone talks shit and I know it's false, I just state my case and let it be, because people are going to believe whichever story they want, and no one is going to convince them any differently without some for of hard evidence.
Is going after the wife really going to change anything? Are people going to suddenly stop believing the SEALs story? They wont, they'll just think that Ventura is that much more of a douche for attacking a widow that didn't do shit to him. Plus, it's not like Ventura has a shitload of credibility anyway, as I said, dude basically built his career on a lie, and he's out there talking about all kinds of conspiracy theories all over the place.
At this point, it'd be best for him to just move on, he's not going to make himself look any better and he's not going to change anything. Suck it up and move on.
Completely agree.
How big of a dirtbag is Ventura for doing this?
American Sniper became a major success, hitting No. 1 on the New York Times bestsellers' list where it remained for seven weeks.
Kyle took none of the royalties from the book, according to his publisher, William Morrow, and DeFelice.
DeFelice said Kyle donated his royalties to the families of two Navy Seals, Marc Lee and Ryan Job, who fought alongside him in a 2006 battle that led to their deaths.
Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/03/4596644/sheriff-navy-seal-and-friend-shot.html#storylink=cpy
Good job Jesse. ::)
This is one of those "can versus should" type of decisions. Yes, he can do it and has the right to do so. No, he shouldn't try and take money away from the families of veterans who gave their lives serving their country, over a few paragraphs in a book. He really comes across as a butt-hurt sissy.
What happened to the tough guy with one of the greatest lines in movie history, who once upset the political apple cart? Is he on drugs or something?
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He's not actually suing the wife though. He's suing the person who is profiting on the book. It just so happens to be her. If she died tomorrow and it was the kids (Or the trust) he would sue them.
It's not Jesse's fault the dude died. Why does his life have to stop to placate people's sense of empathy for her loss of a husband?
Agree, and Jesse is also a veteran who put his life on the line.
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Agree, and Jesse is also a veteran who put his life on the line.
+1
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Going after a dead mans wife for something her husband said? Pretty petty, and pretty classless, especially when the guy basically built his career on a lie, the guy was never a SEAL (He was UDT, which is not at all the same thing, although he did go through SOME of the same training SEALs do)
Even if Ventura is telling the truth (which I doubt), the guy is fucking dead, just move on. Its not like everyone is going to suddenly go "Oh, he sued the widow, he must be telling the truth, I believe him now!"
The damage is done, and he's just making himself look like an ass by going after someone that had NOTHING to do with the situation.
If false and damaging information exists, it should be challenged. There isn't a legitimate way to attach this guy's death with that fact.
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If false and damaging information exists, it should be challenged. There isn't a legitimate way to attach this guy's death with that fact.
have to agree. the guy dying is completely irrelevant. if someone's telling lies about me, i'm going to challenge it. if people are profiting from those lies, i'm going to hire attorney's to do what they can to put a stop to it.
"i'm sorry your husband died, but his book tells lies about me, and i don't want anyone profiting from it anymore"
but i'm also totally open to the possibility that they aren't lies at all and Jesse is just trying to cover his ass. and if thats the truth then yeah he's a scumbag.
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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/29/jury-awards-ventura-1-8-in-defamation-case-against-deceased-american-sniper-chris-kyles-estate
oh boy
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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/29/jury-awards-ventura-1-8-in-defamation-case-against-deceased-american-sniper-chris-kyles-estate
oh boy
Wow. That's awful. If this survives on appeal, I wonder if Ventura will try and collect from the guy's family? Ventura is such a whiney dirtbag for doing this. I have really lost respect for the guy.
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http://news.yahoo.com/jury-awards-ventura-1-8m-defamation-case-182537219.html
A jury has awarded former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura $1.8 million in his lawsuit against the estate of "American Sniper" author Chris Kyle.
The federal jury in St. Paul found Tuesday that the 2012 best-selling book libeled Ventura in describing a bar fight in California in 2006. Kyle wrote that he decked a man later identified as Ventura after the man allegedly said the Navy SEALs "deserve to lose a few."
Ventura, a former governor and professional wrestler, testified the incident never happened. Kyle insisted in testimony videotaped before he was slain last year that it did.
Both sides put witnesses on the stand during the two-week trial that backed their version of events.
Legal experts said before the trial Ventura had to clear a high legal bar to win.
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Well done Mr. Janos, you have done more damage to your "reputation" with this than the book ever could.
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Well done Mr. Janos, you have done more damage to your "reputation" with this than the book ever could.
That he has. Stupid is as stupid does.....
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Well done Mr. Janos, you have done more damage to your "reputation" with this than the book ever could.
Why? Because the guy Kyles is dead?
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Why? Because the guy Kyles is dead?
No, because he sued a hero because he hurt his pride. It's douchey.
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According to the article, he sued him before his death. And he sued him for false claims.
If Kyle or his witnesses had been able to prove his claims about the bar fight, he would have lost.
How can that be douchey?
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No, because he sued a hero because he hurt his pride. It's douchey.
Agree. And all of the money from the book proceeds went to the families of two deceased service members.
Good job Jesse. ::)
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Agree. And all of the money from the book proceeds went to the families of two deceased service members.
Good job Jesse. ::)
So you are saying the courts and their decision is wrong? It's ok for a hero to tell a lie if he is doing it for the charity of others?
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According to the article, he sued him before his death. And he sued him for false claims.
If Kyle or his witnesses had been able to prove his claims about the bar fight, he would have lost.
How can that be douchey?
Well, it did say that most of the people at the bar corroborated his story except for venturas people, do it was he said/she said... except that kyles people had mote inconsistency, which youd expect when a large group of people trying to recall what happened in a bar fight.
And with venturas penchant for lying (he was never a SEAL, he was UDT, big fucking difference Ventura) id tend to side with Kyle and the SEAL community.
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So you are saying the courts and their decision is wrong? It's ok for a hero to tell a lie if he is doing it for the charity of others?
The court didn't make the decision. The jury did. I don't fault the jury for making a decision based on the facts that were presented to them. That's not the point.
Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they should. He showed exceptionally poor judgment and incredibly thin skin for someone who used to be so tough. What a friggin sissy.
And to try and take money from deceased service members just shows how far he has fallen. If this was really about clearing his "good" name, he should not try and collect the award.
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The SEALs are PISSED off
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Well, it did say that most of the people at the bar corroborated his story except for venturas people, do it was he said/she said... except that kyles people had mote inconsistency, which youd expect when a large group of people trying to recall what happened in a bar fight.
And with venturas penchant for lying (he was never a SEAL, he was UDT, big fucking difference Ventura) id tend to side with Kyle and the SEAL community.
He also became a 911 Troofer, which puts him in the class with all those tinfoil hat dummies.
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According to the article, he sued him before his death. And he sued him for false claims.
If Kyle or his witnesses had been able to prove his claims about the bar fight, he would have lost.
How can that be douchey?
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Jury instructions were not about whether or not a fight occured
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Jury instructions were not about whether or not a fight occured
The lawsuit was over defamation of character that resulted from the imaginary fight I believe. Therefore, it would make sense that the trial would be determined on whether or not the fight actually occurred. If it occurred the way Kyle said, it would have been an open and shut case since Ventura couldn't argue that he was defamed by something that was true.
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The court didn't make the decision. The jury did. I don't fault the jury for making a decision based on the facts that were presented to them. That's not the point.
Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they should. He showed exceptionally poor judgment and incredibly thin skin for someone who used to be so tough. What a friggin sissy.
And to try and take money from deceased service members just shows how far he has fallen. If this was really about clearing his "good" name, he should not try and collect the award.
So if I go out and write a book about how I whipped Mike Tyson's ass in Burger King, he shouldn't be allowed to sue me as long as I was donating the book sales to charity?
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So if I go out and write a book about how I whipped Mike Tyson's ass in Burger King, he shouldn't be allowed to sue me as long as I was donating the book sales to charity?
Again, you are missing the point. The issue is not whether he could sue. He could. The issue is whether he should. He should not have.
So in your unrealistic hypothetical, yes Mike Tyson should be allowed to sue you. Whether he should would be based on the facts of your invented hypothetical.
I explained this in the other thread:
Completely agree.
How big of a dirtbag is Ventura for doing this?
American Sniper became a major success, hitting No. 1 on the New York Times bestsellers' list where it remained for seven weeks.
Kyle took none of the royalties from the book, according to his publisher, William Morrow, and DeFelice.
DeFelice said Kyle donated his royalties to the families of two Navy Seals, Marc Lee and Ryan Job, who fought alongside him in a 2006 battle that led to their deaths.
Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/03/4596644/sheriff-navy-seal-and-friend-shot.html#storylink=cpy
Good job Jesse. ::)
This is one of those "can versus should" type of decisions. Yes, he can do it and has the right to do so. No, he shouldn't try and take money away from the families of veterans who gave their lives serving their country, over a few paragraphs in a book. He really comes across as a butt-hurt sissy.
What happened to the tough guy with one of the greatest lines in movie history, who once upset the political apple cart? Is he on drugs or something?
A butt-hurt sissy indeed.
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From what I am getting out of the testimony is that the fact that the fight took place doesn't seem to be disputed, many witness's. The fact that it ended up in his book and made Janos look like an asshole is apparently this issue.
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Again, you are missing the point. The issue is not whether he could sue. He could. The issue is whether he should. He should not have.
So in your unrealistic hypothetical, yes Mike Tyson should be allowed to sue you. Whether he should would be based on the facts of your invented hypothetical.
I explained this in the other thread:
A butt-hurt sissy indeed.
If he COULD sue, then what is your problem with it? Do you even have one or just whining for no reason. SHOULD he sue? If he were the average person I would say no. But he is/was a famous public person and someone attempting to generate book sales over an (supposingly) imaginary fight that never occurred based on his name and public awareness of who he is should be sued.
If the average person wrote a book about themselves, it wouldn't generate much interest outside of their friends and immediate family. If that person claimed he whipped Mike Tyson, then more people would want to read it and their name recognition would increase. Doesn't matter if the proceeds goes to charity. They shouldn't be allowed to lie at the expense of another person's name, reputation and character.
In this case, the jury obviously felt the fight story was a lie and judged accordingly.
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If he COULD sue, then what is your problem with it? Do you even have one or just whining for no reason. SHOULD he sue? If he were the average person I would say no. But he is/was a famous public person and someone attempting to generate book sales over an (supposingly) imaginary fight that never occurred based on his name and public awareness of who he is should be sued.
If the average person wrote a book about themselves, it wouldn't generate much interest outside of their friends and immediate family. If that person claimed he whipped Mike Tyson, then more people would want to read it and their name recognition would increase. Doesn't matter if the proceeds goes to charity. They shouldn't be allowed to lie at the expense of another person's name, reputation and character.
In this case, the jury obviously felt the fight story was a lie and judged accordingly.
I just explained why he shouldn't have done it. Doing something just because you can is an infantile way of thinking. Smart people know when to pick their battles, and the really smart ones pick very few.
A lot of this is about class, discretion, good judgment, etc. Sometimes you have to possess those qualities to understand how they are implemented in real life.
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If he COULD sue, then what is your problem with it? Do you even have one or just whining for no reason. SHOULD he sue? If he were the average person I would say no. But he is/was a famous public person and someone attempting to generate book sales over an (supposingly) imaginary fight that never occurred based on his name and public awareness of who he is should be sued.
If the average person wrote a book about themselves, it wouldn't generate much interest outside of their friends and immediate family. If that person claimed he whipped Mike Tyson, then more people would want to read it and their name recognition would increase. Doesn't matter if the proceeds goes to charity. They shouldn't be allowed to lie at the expense of another person's name, reputation and character.
In this case, the jury obviously felt the fight story was a lie and judged accordingly.
You continue to say the fight was imaginary, so all the witness's are lying?
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I just explained why he shouldn't have done it. Doing something just because you can is an infantile way of thinking. Smart people know when to pick their battles, and the really smart ones pick very few.
A lot of this is about class, discretion, good judgment, etc. Sometimes you have to possess those qualities to understand how they are implemented in real life.
If it is about class, discretion, good judgment, and being a smart person... then obviously a person with those traits would not be a LIAR would they?
Just because someone did do it and now they are dead and the money is going to charity, that is an infantile way of justifying their actions.
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You continue to say the fight was imaginary, so all the witness's are lying?
Ventura, a former governor and professional wrestler, testified the incident never happened. Kyle insisted in testimony videotaped before he was slain last year that it did.
Both sides put witnesses on the stand during the two-week trial that backed their version of events.
The jury obviously believed Ventura's case that the fight never happened.
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Jury instructions were not about whether or not a fight occured
I have more faith in Ventura, look how he ran his campaign and the state of Minnesota. He's proven his character. All I know about Kyle is that he's killed tons of people.
Kyle seems like a shit talker who tried to cash in on a fight he shouldn't have been bragging about.
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If it is about class, discretion, good judgment, and being a smart person... then obviously a person with those traits would not be a LIAR would they?
Just because someone did do it and now they are dead and the money is going to charity, that is an infantile way of justifying their actions.
You were just talking about Ventura and whether he had the "right" to do this. I've explained to you that he the right, but shouldn't have exercised it. Now you're trying to tie it to whether Kyle should have "lied." You are all over the place.
Your second sentence is incomprehensible. Nobody is trying to justify Kyle's actions.
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From what I am getting out of the testimony is that the fact that the fight took place doesn't seem to be disputed, many witness's. The fact that it ended up in his book and made Janos look like an asshole is apparently this issue.
Correct.
"U.S. District Judge Richard Kyle, who is not related to the author, told jurors they weren’t charged with determining whether Ventura was punched, but rather whether he was defamed by the remarks Kyle attributed to him."
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/29/jury-awards-ventura-1-8-in-defamation-case-against-deceased-american-sniper-chris-kyles-estate/
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You were just talking about Ventura and whether he had the "right" to do this. I've explained to you that he the right, but shouldn't have exercised it. Now you're trying to tie it to whether Kyle should have "lied." You are all over the place.
Your second sentence is incomprehensible. Nobody is trying to justify Kyle's actions.
I would think someone lying about you to their benefit would be all the reason you need to exercise the right to sue.
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I have more faith in Ventura, look how he ran his campaign and the state of Minnesota. He's proven his character. All I know about Kyle is that he's killed tons of people.
Kyle seems like a shit talker who tried to cash in on a fight he shouldn't have been bragging about.
How did he cash in if all of the net proceeds went to the families of service members killed in action?
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I would think someone lying about you to their benefit would be all the reason you need to exercise the right to sue.
Dude. I'm not saying he didn't have the right to sue, but I'm just repeating myself. . . .
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Agree. And all of the money from the book proceeds went to the families of two deceased service members.
Good job Jesse. ::)
No it didn't. She received over 3 million dollars from that book...one that's based on a lie. Jesse has every right to file suit against the estate especially if they are profiting off of it...doesn't matter where the money goes
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No it didn't. She received over 3 million dollars from that book...one that's based on a lie. Jesse has every right to file suit against the estate especially if they are profiting off of it...doesn't matter where the money goes
Where you getting this information?
Here is what I read:
DeFelice said Kyle donated his royalties to the families of two Navy Seals, Marc Lee and Ryan Job, who fought alongside him in a 2006 battle that led to their deaths.
Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/03/4596644/sheriff-navy-seal-and-friend-shot.html#storylink=cpy
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No, because he sued a hero LIAR because he hurt his pride. It's douchey.
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I have more faith in Ventura, look how he ran his campaign and the state of Minnesota. He's proven his character. All I know about Kyle is that he's killed tons of people.
Kyle seems like a shit talker who tried to cash in on a fight he shouldn't have been bragging about.
Roger... hes made a career lying ablut his service.
He was never a SEAL. Ever. He was UDT (underwater demolition team). He went through BUD/s, but not all the rest of training and then the combat that SEALs go through, in fact, several of his stories were proven bullshit by SEALs that served 'with' him in Vietnam.
Dude lies. And hes a successful politician, which should automatically tell you something as well.
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How is it everyone is so quick to call kyle a liar but the PROVEN LIES ventura built his career on people ignore or gloss over?
Go do some digging on veterans sites about Venturas history as a SEAL 'hunting people' ( oh brother).
You wont like what you find.
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Roger... hes made a career lying ablut his service.
He was never a SEAL. Ever. He was UDT (underwater demolition team). He went through BUD/s, but not all the rest of training and then the combat that SEALs go through, in fact, several of his stories were proven bullshit by SEALs that served 'with' him in Vietnam.
Dude lies. And hes a successful politician, which should automatically tell you something as well.
I hope you're wrong, but I definitely trust your judgement on it. I've always liked Jesse, and am a big fan of his as a politician.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Navy_SEAL_background_controversy
Navy SEAL background controversy
Bill Salisbury, an attorney in San Diego and a former Navy SEAL officer, has accused Ventura of "pretending" to be a SEAL. He wrote that Ventura would be blurring an important distinction by claiming to be a SEAL when he was actually a frogman with the UDT. Compared to SEAL teams, UDTs saw less combat and took fewer casualties.[15][115]
Ventura has often implied that he was a SEAL, but has never stated it categorically. Bill Sainsbury described Ventura's Navy training thus:
[Ventura] took a screening test at boot camp to qualify for...Basic Underwater Demolition/seal (buds/s) training...Those who completed bud/s, when [Ventura] was in training, were sent to either a seal or an underwater demolition team. Graduation did not, however, authorize the trainee to call himself a seal or a udt frogman. He had to first successfully complete a six-month probationary period in the Teams.[116]
Although Ventura underwent UDT training, he never attempted the additional 26-week SEAL Qualification Training. On completion of his BUD/S training, Ventura was assigned to a UDT team. In 1983, eight years after Ventura left the Navy, the UDTs were disbanded and those operators were retrained and retasked as SEALs.[115]
Some argue that since Ventura's BUD/S training was common to UDTs and SEALs, and the work of UDTs and SEALs was similar, he is entitled to call himself a SEAL in all but name, but others disagree and hold the view expressed by Bill Salisbury.
Responding to the controversy, Governor Ventura's office confirmed that Ventura was a member of the UDT. His spokesman stated that Ventura has never tried to convince people otherwise.[15] Ventura stated, "Today we refer to all of us as SEALs, that's all it is", and dismissed the accusations of lying about being a SEAL as "much ado about nothing".[115]
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I hope you're wrong, but I definitely trust your judgement on it. I've always liked Jesse, and am a big fan of his as a politician.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Navy_SEAL_background_controversy
Navy SEAL background controversy
Bill Salisbury, an attorney in San Diego and a former Navy SEAL officer, has accused Ventura of "pretending" to be a SEAL. He wrote that Ventura would be blurring an important distinction by claiming to be a SEAL when he was actually a frogman with the UDT. Compared to SEAL teams, UDTs saw less combat and took fewer casualties.[15][115]
Ventura has often implied that he was a SEAL, but has never stated it categorically. Bill Sainsbury described Ventura's Navy training thus:
[Ventura] took a screening test at boot camp to qualify for...Basic Underwater Demolition/seal (buds/s) training...Those who completed bud/s, when [Ventura] was in training, were sent to either a seal or an underwater demolition team. Graduation did not, however, authorize the trainee to call himself a seal or a udt frogman. He had to first successfully complete a six-month probationary period in the Teams.[116]
Although Ventura underwent UDT training, he never attempted the additional 26-week SEAL Qualification Training. On completion of his BUD/S training, Ventura was assigned to a UDT team. In 1983, eight years after Ventura left the Navy, the UDTs were disbanded and those operators were retrained and retasked as SEALs.[115]
Some argue that since Ventura's BUD/S training was common to UDTs and SEALs, and the work of UDTs and SEALs was similar, he is entitled to call himself a SEAL in all but name, but others disagree and hold the view expressed by Bill Salisbury.
Responding to the controversy, Governor Ventura's office confirmed that Ventura was a member of the UDT. His spokesman stated that Ventura has never tried to convince people otherwise.[15] Ventura stated, "Today we refer to all of us as SEALs, that's all it is", and dismissed the accusations of lying about being a SEAL as "much ado about nothing".[115]
Its funny that when directly called out, his "team" claims he never said it, but he talked about 'hunting' humans and being on SEAL missions all the time.
A couple vietnam SEALs made it their mission to expose him
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Its funny that when directly called out, his "team" claims he never said it, but he talked about 'hunting' humans and being on SEAL missions all the time.
A couple vietnam SEALs made it their mission to expose him
Major disappointment... thanks a lot!! >:( >:( >:( ;D
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Jesse probably needs the money.
If this altercation really did take place, where were all the fools recording video while holding their phones the wrong way and yelling "worldstarhiphop"? That's what I want to know.
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Where you getting this information?
Here is what I read:
DeFelice said Kyle donated his royalties to the families of two Navy Seals, Marc Lee and Ryan Job, who fought alongside him in a 2006 battle that led to their deaths.
Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/02/03/4596644/sheriff-navy-seal-and-friend-shot.html#storylink=cpy
All in the court transcripts. That's why the jury awarded Ventura 1.8 million. Regardless of what you think of him...Chris Kyle told a whopper of a story and profited off it. Him dying doesn't change a thing as the estate is still collecting money from that lie
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All in the court transcripts. That's why the jury awarded Ventura 1.8 million. Regardless of what you think of him...Chris Kyle told a whopper of a story and profited off it. Him dying doesn't change a thing as the estate is still collecting money from that lie
Ventura may have won a court judgment but his rep now is totally destroyed
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congratulations!
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Ventura may have won a court judgment but his rep now is totally destroyed
so is yours and it hasn't stopped us from playing with you.
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All in the court transcripts. That's why the jury awarded Ventura 1.8 million. Regardless of what you think of him...Chris Kyle told a whopper of a story and profited off it. Him dying doesn't change a thing as the estate is still collecting money from that lie
What lie? Did Janos get punched, witness's to the incident say yes. What is in dispute is what he said to piss Kyle off enough to hit him. Now from past performance it would surprise me one bit that Janos was running off at the mouth. Hell he has made a career of doing it.
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What lie? Did Janos get punched, witness's to the incident say yes. What is in dispute is what he said to piss Kyle off enough to hit him. Now from past performance it would surprise me one bit that Janos was running off at the mouth. Hell he has made a career of doing it.
According to the testimony from the article that I posted, Jesse (and his witness's testified under oath that it never happened.
Of course the other side testified the opposite.
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so is yours and it hasn't stopped us from playing with you.
Lol. Like i give a shit what obamabots think.
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Jesse probably needs the money.
If this altercation really did take place, where were all the fools recording video while holding their phones the wrong way and yelling "worldstarhiphop"? That's what I want to know.
HAHAHA with at least 4-5 bad weaves all over the place.
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Jesse probably needs the money.
If this altercation really did take place, where were all the fools recording video while holding their phones the wrong way and yelling "worldstarhiphop"? That's what I want to know.
McP's is an establishment where mostly SEAL's hang out, not going to see a whole lot of people taking video of active duty guys.
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McP's is an establishment where mostly SEAL's hang out, not going to see a whole lot of people taking video of active duty guys.
cool; I'll add that to a 'must see' point of interest on my next trip.
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McP's is an establishment where mostly SEAL's hang out, not going to see a whole lot of people taking video of active duty guys.
Remind me not to drink there and start shit with someone...
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All in the court transcripts. That's why the jury awarded Ventura 1.8 million. Regardless of what you think of him...Chris Kyle told a whopper of a story and profited off it. Him dying doesn't change a thing as the estate is still collecting money from that lie
You read court transcripts? That is surprising. Can you link me? I'd like to read what you read.
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Chris Kyle? Isn’t he the one who thought that it would be just crackingly brilliant to take a mental case shooting rather than…fishing?
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Chris Kyle? Isn’t he the one who thought that it would be just crackingly brilliant to take a mental case shooting rather than…fishing?
Ouch!
Given Kyle's main claim to fame and considering the manner of his tragic death, you do not need to be a Buddhist to start wondering about Karma...
R.I.P.
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Ouch!
Given Kyle's main claim to fame and considering the manner of his tragic death, you do not need to be a Buddhist to start wondering about Karma...
R.I.P.
Maybe you should actually read the book....
He was working with returning soldiers with PTSD, volunteering his time to try and make their lives better... hes a texan and down there, shooting IS a relaxing pass time, as it is for many former Marined and Soldiers.
Kyle loved his country and his fellow soldiers and put himself into harms way many times to try and save others lives where he didnt have to... INCLUDING handing his rifle off to a Marine, taking the Marines M16, and leading the other Marines into houses to try and keep them alive (since he had far more extensive training on how to clear houses as a SEAL)....
Dude didnt have to do that, he could have stayed in his hide and watched Marines go in the house and come out carrying their dead, But he didnt. He put himself in danger over and over rather than let others die... he also did as much volunteer work as he could with returning soldiers and started a group to help them as he felt they weren't being taken car of....
He was 10x the human most of us are, myself included
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Maybe you should actually read the book....
He was working with returning soldiers with PTSD, volunteering his time to try and make their lives better... hes a texan and down there, shooting IS a relaxing pass time, as it is for many former Marined and Soldiers.
Kyle loved his country and his fellow soldiers and put himself into harms way many times to try and save others lives where he didnt have to... INCLUDING handing his rifle off to a Marine, taking the Marines M16, and leading the other Marines into houses to try and keep them alive (since he had far more extensive training on how to clear houses as a SEAL)....
Dude didnt have to do that, he could have stayed in his hide and watched Marines go in the house and come out carrying their dead, But he didnt. He put himself in danger over and over rather than let others die... he also did as much volunteer work as he could with returning soldiers and started a group to help them as he felt they weren't being taken car of....
He was 10x the human most of us are, myself included
Good points.
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Maybe you should actually read the book....
He was working with returning soldiers with PTSD, volunteering his time to try and make their lives better... hes a texan and down there, shooting IS a relaxing pass time, as it is for many former Marined and Soldiers.
Kyle loved his country and his fellow soldiers and put himself into harms way many times to try and save others lives where he didnt have to... INCLUDING handing his rifle off to a Marine, taking the Marines M16, and leading the other Marines into houses to try and keep them alive (since he had far more extensive training on how to clear houses as a SEAL)....
Dude didnt have to do that, he could have stayed in his hide and watched Marines go in the house and come out carrying their dead, But he didnt. He put himself in danger over and over rather than let others die... he also did as much volunteer work as he could with returning soldiers and started a group to help them as he felt they weren't being taken car of....
He was 10x the human most of us are, myself included
Not sure what you mean. I think any and everyone would agree that his volunteer work was totally commendable.
I'm just saying that a guy who took so many lives with a gun and then had his own life taken with a gun will cause a lot of folks to consider the concept of Karma.
Doesn't matter if many considered him a righteous killer or not.
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Not sure what you mean. I think any and everyone would agree that his volunteer work was totally commendable.
I'm just saying that a guy who took so many lives with a gun and then had his own life taken with a gun will cause a lot of folks to consider the concept of Karma.
Doesn't matter if many considered him a righteous killer or not.
good point.
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Not sure what you mean. I think any and everyone would agree that his volunteer work was totally commendable.
I'm just saying that a guy who took so many lives with a gun and then had his own life taken with a gun will cause a lot of folks to consider the concept of Karma.
Doesn't matter if many considered him a righteous killer or not.
Yeah, I think it's more live by the sword/die by the sword type thing. Karma could be argued I guess, in a strict sense. I always think of the warriors path in a different sense than civilians. People are born warriors, they have that calling to fight.... and warriors are necessary and even righteous, BUT, part of that duality is that they have to kill. So how does that fit into the spirituality aspect? It's always a hard line to think about, as most warriors are religious/spiritual. Almost none of them wrestle with the killing aspect in my experience, there are always a few.. but most rationalize it as their job, and that it keeps themselves and their comrades alive.
Sorry, of into lala land their. Irritates me when a lot of people say "he killed all these innocents he deserved to die", when the reality is far different..... but thats not here nor there.
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Ventura did the right thing to clear his name. Keep in mind this had NOTHING to do with if the fight happened or not. The jury's job was to decide if the story was responsible for the defamation of Ventura and it clearly was.
Personally, I have doubts that it did happen as the "witnesses" stories did not line up. The bar was crowded and certainly Jesse was recognizable. Somebody would have said something about him getting decked prior to the book and yet there was nothing.
Ventura is right to do what he did. Keep in mind, Kyle`s book is completely unverifiable. Also, Kyle has been know to tell HUGE lies such as:
Like the one about how he and a bud went down to New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina and picked off dozens of bad guys. Or the one in which he took on two armed Texans bent on stealing his truck and shot them both dead.
Kyle is certainly full of a lot of shit.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/?tid=hp_mm
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Kyle is full of shit, Must be a Getbigger: :D :D
That sense of superhuman toughness perhaps led him to tell stories reporters couldn’t confirm. One involved a cold January morning at a gas station southwest of Dallas. Two armed men, he said, approached him and told him to hand over the keys to his black F350. “I told them I would get them the keys,” he told Mooney. “I told them they were in the truck and to just let me reach in.” Kyle then claimed he reached into the car, pulled out a gun and, shooting under his armpit, killed both men. “It’s true,” he said.
But was it? Reporters, including the New Yorker’s Nicholas Schmidle, called some of the nearby county sheriffs and none of them knew of it. “I went to every single gas station [nearby],” Mooney explained. “I talked to every single law enforcement out there, all the Texas rangers — and there’s no evidence whatsoever.”
The Fort Worth Star-Telegram had no better luck. “We checked with the medical examiner’s office, which reported no such deaths in Cleburne in January 2009.”
Years after those alleged killings, Kyle had another story to tell. This one referred to the vacuum of authority in New Orleans following Katrina, when the city slipped into chaos. According to the New Yorker and several military publications, Kyle and a few other SEALs drank late in San Diego late one night in early 2012. “The SEALs began telling stories, and Kyle offered a shocking one,” the New Yorker reported. “…He and another sniper traveled to New Orleans, set up on top of the Superdome, and proceed to shoot dozens of armed residents who were contributing to the chaos.” The magazine said one conversation participant said Kyle “claimed to have shot thirty men on his own,” while another said Kyle and the other killed 30 between them.
When the New Yorker’s Schmidle called the U.S. Special Operations Command for confirmation, he didn’t get any. Then one of Kyle’s officers told the reporter, “I never heard that story.”
Does that mean it didn’t happen? Who knows. It’s certainly possible that Kyle killed two Texan thieves and their bodies disappeared. And it’s also possible Kyle killed 30 armed assailants in New Orleans to protect its residents in Katrina’s aftermath. But it’s also possible Kyle couldn’t let go of his own legend, and, in a haze of post-traumatic stress, let his tales veer into untruth.
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Yeah, I think it's more live by the sword/die by the sword type thing. Karma could be argued I guess, in a strict sense. I always think of the warriors path in a different sense than civilians. People are born warriors, they have that calling to fight.... and warriors are necessary and even righteous, BUT, part of that duality is that they have to kill. So how does that fit into the spirituality aspect? It's always a hard line to think about, as most warriors are religious/spiritual. Almost none of them wrestle with the killing aspect in my experience, there are always a few.. but most rationalize it as their job, and that it keeps themselves and their comrades alive.
Sorry, of into lala land their. Irritates me when a lot of people say "he killed all these innocents he deserved to die", when the reality is far different..... but thats not here nor there.
Or it could be that Kyle has a penchant for telling lies. He did say he killed 30 people in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. :-\
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Kyle is full of shit, Must be a Getbigger: :D :D
That sense of superhuman toughness perhaps led him to tell stories reporters couldn’t confirm. One involved a cold January morning at a gas station southwest of Dallas. Two armed men, he said, approached him and told him to hand over the keys to his black F350. “I told them I would get them the keys,” he told Mooney. “I told them they were in the truck and to just let me reach in.” Kyle then claimed he reached into the car, pulled out a gun and, shooting under his armpit, killed both men. “It’s true,” he said.
But was it? Reporters, including the New Yorker’s Nicholas Schmidle, called some of the nearby county sheriffs and none of them knew of it. “I went to every single gas station [nearby],” Mooney explained. “I talked to every single law enforcement out there, all the Texas rangers — and there’s no evidence whatsoever.”
The Fort Worth Star-Telegram had no better luck. “We checked with the medical examiner’s office, which reported no such deaths in Cleburne in January 2009.”
Years after those alleged killings, Kyle had another story to tell. This one referred to the vacuum of authority in New Orleans following Katrina, when the city slipped into chaos. According to the New Yorker and several military publications, Kyle and a few other SEALs drank late in San Diego late one night in early 2012. “The SEALs began telling stories, and Kyle offered a shocking one,” the New Yorker reported. “…He and another sniper traveled to New Orleans, set up on top of the Superdome, and proceed to shoot dozens of armed residents who were contributing to the chaos.” The magazine said one conversation participant said Kyle “claimed to have shot thirty men on his own,” while another said Kyle and the other killed 30 between them.
When the New Yorker’s Schmidle called the U.S. Special Operations Command for confirmation, he didn’t get any. Then one of Kyle’s officers told the reporter, “I never heard that story.”
Does that mean it didn’t happen? Who knows. It’s certainly possible that Kyle killed two Texan thieves and their bodies disappeared. And it’s also possible Kyle killed 30 armed assailants in New Orleans to protect its residents in Katrina’s aftermath. But it’s also possible Kyle couldn’t let go of his own legend, and, in a haze of post-traumatic stress, let his tales veer into untruth.
Interesting.
Well, still.. at this point, his stories are 'unverifiable', while Ventura is a proven liar, and has been proven to be full of shit.
Im still going with kyle and the SEAL community
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Interesting.
Well, still.. at this point, his stories are 'unverifiable', while Ventura is a proven liar, and has been proven to be full of shit.
Im still going with kyle and the SEAL community
What has Ventura lied about?
I know he has crazy theories about things at times, but I would not call them lies. I don`t think he claims his theories as anything other than theories.
I can`t give Kyle the benefit of the doubt in this case. He made the claim that he beat up Ventura and there is no proof of it whatsoever.
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Interesting.
Well, still.. at this point, his stories are 'unverifiable', while Ventura is a proven liar, and has been proven to be full of shit.
Im still going with kyle and the SEAL community
Do you believe that Kyle and his friend killed 30 people after Hurricane Katrina? ???
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Or it could be that Kyle has a penchant for telling lies. He did say he killed 30 people in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. :-\
Well, what he did after his service I dont know, nor apparently does amyone else.
However, ventura is a proven liar, hes exactly the kind of person that would make suxh remarks given his recent traits, and most of the people in that bar backed Kyle (except, not surprisingly, Venturas friends)... however their (bar patrons) stories were inconsistent (which, if youve ever been involved in a barfight, is exactly what happens....getting 2 people to tell the same series of events is almost impossible).
What hes done in katrina or the deal with the robbers... who knows. Cant be prove. One way or the other. However, hes been an iostanding member of the SEAL community, his war record has been proven, and most of his incredible stories have been corroborated.
Frankly id trust his word anyday over venturas, who was never even a fckin SEAL, even though he constantly claims to be/have been.
Just my. 02 cents.
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Do you believe that Kyle and his friend killed 30 people after Hurricane Katrina? ???
No clue at all. Havent looked into it, but it doesnt look like there is a lot of evidence either way.. He did run a government/military contracting unit you know...... the kind of contractors that can get away with that kind of stuff.
But aside from that, there were plenty of people that backed his story in the bar that night. His mikitary record is also not in question.
Again, id take his word over venturas, who constantly lies about his military record.
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No clue at all. Havent looked into it, but it doesnt look like there is a lot of evidence either way.. He did run a government/military contracting unit you know...... the kind of contractors that can get away with that kind of stuff.
But aside from that, there were plenty of people that backed his story in the bar that night. His mikitary record is also not in question.
Again, id take his word over venturas, who constantly lies about his military record.
Kyles story is unverifiable. His book has to be believed all at face value, so I would say his military record is in some question. We know that he was a SEAL and a sniper. Beyond that, who knows. He may have made a lot of it up. Alot of what is in the book cannot be challenged or proven either way.
His Katrina story is full of shit though as is the story he told of shooting two potential car jackers in Texas. That we do know for sure.
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No clue at all. Havent looked into it, but it doesnt look like there is a lot of evidence either way.. He did run a government/military contracting unit you know...... the kind of contractors that can get away with that kind of stuff.
But aside from that, there were plenty of people that backed his story in the bar that night. His mikitary record is also not in question.
Again, id take his word over venturas, who constantly lies about his military record.
He was not a contractor during Katrina. He was in the military at the time.
No SEALS were deployed to New Orleans.
He claims to have been set up on the SuperDome and taking out people one by one. He is so full of shit on this. 30 people. LOLOLOLOL
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A 1.8 Million dollar settlement is a bit much, IMO.
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A 1.8 Million dollar settlement is a bit much, IMO.
I don`t think so. Ventura`s lawyers originally wanted between 5 and 15 million as they found that the book made 6 million.
They awarded Ventura $500,000 for damage to his reputation and career caused by defamation. They also awarded him $1.3 million for unjust enrichment -- money they found Kyle made by exploiting Ventura's name and reputation
Its a good verdict. Shows you can`t print nonsense, claim its true without evidence, and make money with slander.
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I don`t think so. Ventura`s lawyers originally wanted between 5 and 15 million as they found that the book made 6 million.
They awarded Ventura $500,000 for damage to his reputation and career caused by defamation. They also awarded him $1.3 million for unjust enrichment -- money they found Kyle made by exploiting Ventura's name and reputation
Its a good verdict. Shows you can`t print nonsense, claim its true without evidence, and make money with slander.
You better be careful then
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You better be careful then
???
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Kyles story is unverifiable. His book has to be believed all at face value, so I would say his military record is in some question. We know that he was a SEAL and a sniper. Beyond that, who knows. He may have made a lot of it up. Alot of what is in the book cannot be challenged or proven either way.
His Katrina story is full of shit though as is the story he told of shooting two potential car jackers in Texas. That we do know for sure.
Not at all... plenty of Marines and Seals that he worked with has substantiated a lot of his book. Trust me, if that stuff was bogus, some Marine or other military uniy would have made a huge stink about how bullshit it was. Military folks LIVE to correct each other.
His katrina story definitely seems exaggerated..
But who knows, stranger shit has happened. Another thing you havr to remember as wrll is a lot of these giys like telling civilians stupid tall tales to get a reaction and then joke with their buddies about it later. I dont remember the katrina thing being anywhere in the book, so im noy sure about how that came up.
Either way, theres far more of his military life substantiated than Venturas. Id still take hos word (and rhe SEALs in the bar) over Venturas any day of the week.
Ventura is a professional politician, a PROVEN liar, and a borderline fruitbat in recent years.
Again, just my .02. Others have said that ventura has made quite the ass put of himself at military events before as well.
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Not at all... plenty of Marines and Seals that he worked with has substantiated a lot of his book. Trust me, if that stuff was bogus, some Marine or other military uniy would have made a huge stink about how bullshit it was. Military folks LIVE to correct each other.
His katrina story definitely seems exaggerated..
But who knows, stranger shit has happened. Another thing you havr to remember as wrll is a lot of these giys like telling civilians stupid tall tales to get a reaction and then joke with their buddies about it later. I dont remember the katrina thing being anywhere in the book, so im noy sure about how that came up.
Either way, theres far more of his military life substantiated than Venturas. Id still take hos word (and rhe SEALs in the bar) over Venturas any day of the week.
Ventura is a professional politician, a PROVEN liar, and a borderline fruitbat in recent years.
Again, just my .02. Others have said that ventura has made quite the ass put of himself at military events before as well.
He told this story to Former Navy SEAL sniper Head Instructor Brandon Webb.
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He told this story to Former Navy SEAL sniper Head Instructor Brandon Webb.
Dunno man. Dont know. Did he actually say this to others or did it come from the instructors mouth?
In any case, theres no evidence either way so its kinda a moot point.
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Dunno man. Dont know. Did he actually say this to others or did it come from the instructors mouth?
In any case, theres no evidence either way so its kinda a moot point.
Others as well, including reporters for various newspapers and magazines.
I like Chris and Ventura. Sucks that they couldn`t be friends for whatever reason.
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The other thing is Legal experts said before the trial Ventura had to clear a high legal bar to win. Clearly there was a lot here in Ventura`s favor. He brought the suit so he had to go above and beyond to prove his case and he did.
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One of those ex-SEALs is Ventura’s former instructor, the widely respected Terry “Mother” Moy, owner of the bar where the incident is alleged to have occurred.
After investigating the incident, Moy and his fellow SEALs confirmed that the event never took place and that Kyle had invented it to generate publicity for his book.
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why would anyone claim to have murdered 30 americans for stealing?
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why would anyone claim to have murdered 30 americans for stealing?
Because he wanted very badly to have actually done that.
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This NAVY Seal Warns Jesse Ventura: You Crossed a Sacred Line, You’ll Be Faced With The Consequences
By Soopermexican
Now that passions have subsided over the initial shock of the news that Jesse Ventura won his case against the widow of “American Sniper” Chris Kyle, the long term consequences of the case can be considered soberly and rationally.
One NAVY Seal with special access to the “Naval Special Warfare” community spoke out to let Jesse Ventura know exactly what he’s done.
From Brandon Webb of SOFREP:
…Because of NSW’s celebrity, it’s even more important for SEALs to look at how they conduct themselves in the public eye and on social media. “Will what I’m about to do reflect positively on the SEAL community?” It’s a question I’ve been asking myself a lot these days, and the crux of my problem with Jesse Ventura.
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…The smartest thing I’ve heard come out of Jesse’s mouth was when he was quoted after the recent verdict saying, “There are no winners in this.” In fact, Jesse is the biggest loser in the end (next to the NSW community itself). This is a career ender for him, and an irrecoverable PR nightmare. His career as he used to know it is over.
*
…And if Ventura was really concerned about the truth, and not the money, he should have told Taya Kyle on the courthouse steps that the $1.8M was hers to keep now that his name was cleared. But people with financial motivations don’t make this move.
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My problem with Jesse is not the alleged altercation between him and Chris, it’s about what happened after. Jesse (Janos) Ventura had plenty of opportunities to take the high ground in how he handled the situation. Instead, he made a series of bad decisions, the worst of which was to drag an American Hero’s widow and family in court, as if they haven’t suffered enough with their recent loss. As the father of three amazing children myself, I can’t imagine this scenario. It’s horrific.
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This is a sacred line, not to be crossed, ever Janos, and you will now have to live with the long-term consequences including a SEAL community that is polarized against your actions.
Some pretty harsh words from a competent authority on these matters. Let’s hope Ventura does the right thing and de-escalates this whole sad affair.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/164046-navy-seal-warns-jesse-ventura-crossed-sacred-line-youll-faced-consequences/
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This NAVY Seal Warns Jesse Ventura: You Crossed a Sacred Line, You’ll Be Faced With The Consequences
By Soopermexican
Now that passions have subsided over the initial shock of the news that Jesse Ventura won his case against the widow of “American Sniper” Chris Kyle, the long term consequences of the case can be considered soberly and rationally.
One NAVY Seal with special access to the “Naval Special Warfare” community spoke out to let Jesse Ventura know exactly what he’s done.
From Brandon Webb of SOFREP:
…Because of NSW’s celebrity, it’s even more important for SEALs to look at how they conduct themselves in the public eye and on social media. “Will what I’m about to do reflect positively on the SEAL community?” It’s a question I’ve been asking myself a lot these days, and the crux of my problem with Jesse Ventura.
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…The smartest thing I’ve heard come out of Jesse’s mouth was when he was quoted after the recent verdict saying, “There are no winners in this.” In fact, Jesse is the biggest loser in the end (next to the NSW community itself). This is a career ender for him, and an irrecoverable PR nightmare. His career as he used to know it is over.
*
…And if Ventura was really concerned about the truth, and not the money, he should have told Taya Kyle on the courthouse steps that the $1.8M was hers to keep now that his name was cleared. But people with financial motivations don’t make this move.
*
My problem with Jesse is not the alleged altercation between him and Chris, it’s about what happened after. Jesse (Janos) Ventura had plenty of opportunities to take the high ground in how he handled the situation. Instead, he made a series of bad decisions, the worst of which was to drag an American Hero’s widow and family in court, as if they haven’t suffered enough with their recent loss. As the father of three amazing children myself, I can’t imagine this scenario. It’s horrific.
*
This is a sacred line, not to be crossed, ever Janos, and you will now have to live with the long-term consequences including a SEAL community that is polarized against your actions.
Some pretty harsh words from a competent authority on these matters. Let’s hope Ventura does the right thing and de-escalates this whole sad affair.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/164046-navy-seal-warns-jesse-ventura-crossed-sacred-line-youll-faced-consequences/
::)
I`m sure Jesse is deathly afraid.
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I doubt Jesse is afraid. The poor guy has lost his mind. :-\
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Not at all... plenty of Marines and Seals that he worked with has substantiated a lot of his book. Trust me, if that stuff was bogus, some Marine or other military uniy would have made a huge stink about how bullshit it was. Military folks LIVE to correct each other.
His katrina story definitely seems exaggerated..
But who knows, stranger shit has happened. Another thing you havr to remember as wrll is a lot of these giys like telling civilians stupid tall tales to get a reaction and then joke with their buddies about it later. I dont remember the katrina thing being anywhere in the book, so im noy sure about how that came up.
Either way, theres far more of his military life substantiated than Venturas. Id still take hos word (and rhe SEALs in the bar) over Venturas any day of the week.
Ventura is a professional politician, a PROVEN liar, and a borderline fruitbat in recent years.
Again, just my .02. Others have said that ventura has made quite the ass put of himself at military events before as well.
See, this just doesn't register as true. I've just finished up Marcus Luttrel's 'Lone Survivor' - great read, btw.
Anyhow, he was noting that Ventura regularly gives grads of BUD/S phase one a congratulatory speech. I'm thinking the SEAL brass just wouldn't allow it if they thought or knew Ventura was out lying about his service.
Also - just judging from the Book - Phase One is the hardest, most challenging part. The rest is more tactical, underwater, learning their specialty like being a medic, etc. So if Ventura go through Phase One, props to him, regardless of whether he went another direction for training.
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See, this just doesn't register as true. I've just finished up Marcus Luttrel's 'Lone Survivor' - great read, btw.
Anyhow, he was noting that Ventura regularly gives grads of BUD/S phase one a congratulatory speech. I'm thinking the SEAL brass just wouldn't allow it if they thought or knew Ventura was out lying about his service.
Also - just judging from the Book - Phase One is the hardest, most challenging part. The rest is more tactical, underwater, learning their specialty like being a medic, etc. So if Ventura go through Phase One, props to him, regardless of whether he went another direction for training.
Chris Kyle is the one who is full of shit. Did you see that he claimed to kill 30 American Civilians during Hurricane Katrina. They guy adopted The Punisher Logo and thought he was the actual Punisher. He was a likeable person, but definitely was not all there. So far his service record has not been 100 percent verified either so there are a lot of questions of his accounts in his book.
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Chris Kyle is the one who is full of shit. Did you see that he claimed to kill 30 American Civilians during Hurricane Katrina. They guy adopted The Punisher Logo and thought he was the actual Punisher. He was a likeable person, but definitely was not all there. So far his service record has not been 100 percent verified either so there are a lot of questions of his accounts in his book.
I don't know. Like most others here we're just shooting the shit with limited info. I would imagine, from what we know, both have service records to be proud of and I think if somebody was lied about, they can and should clear their name.
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I don't know. Like most others here we're just shooting the shit with limited info. I would imagine, from what we know, both have service records to be proud of and I think if somebody was lied about, they can and should clear their name.
But shooting 30 American citizens during Hurricane Katrina? Come on, tell me you really don`t believe that whopper.
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She will come out of this rather wealthy......
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I don't know. Like most others here we're just shooting the shit with limited info. I would imagine, from what we know, both have service records to be proud of and I think if somebody was lied about, they can and should clear their name.
Your clear-headed analysis is not welcome here. ;D
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But shooting 30 American citizens during Hurricane Katrina? Come on, tell me you really don`t believe that whopper.
I'm skeptical, but after the Danziger Bridge incident, I can't really rule out the possibility.
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I'm skeptical, but after the Danziger Bridge incident, I can't really rule out the possibility.
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See, this just doesn't register as true. I've just finished up Marcus Luttrel's 'Lone Survivor' - great read, btw.
"I don't want to formally say anything because I don't want to get sued but this about sums it up..." - Marcus Luttrel:
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/q71/s720x720/10394594_10152351466773406_6397047076227012355_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/q71/s720x720/10489700_10152351466808406_1917635954454534394_n.jpg)
(http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-30-at-7.17.42-PM.png)
https://www.facebook.com/The.Official.Marcus.Luttrell.Fanpage/photos/pcb.10152351468193406/10152351466773406/?type=1
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"I don't want to formally say anything because I don't want to get sued but this about sums it up..." - Marcus Luttrel:
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/q71/s720x720/10394594_10152351466773406_6397047076227012355_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/q71/s720x720/10489700_10152351466808406_1917635954454534394_n.jpg)
(http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Screen-Shot-2014-07-30-at-7.17.42-PM.png)
https://www.facebook.com/The.Official.Marcus.Luttrell.Fanpage/photos/pcb.10152351468193406/10152351466773406/?type=1
That is cute and all, but he started the lawsuit while Chris Kyle was still alive.
Don`t let facts get in the way.
Hope this helps.
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That is cute and all, but he started the lawsuit while Chris Kyle was still alive.
Don`t let facts get in the way.
Hope this helps.
Once the guy died - the right thing to do would be to drop the suit and walk away proving his point that he was going to court to clear his name but that he didn't want to bankrupt the widow to do so.
Jesse could have proven his point, saved face, been the bigger man and walked away head holding high.
Now he looks like utter dog shit to everyone. SEAL's will never have a thing to do with him again, wont allow him at events, bars, etc in their prescence,
He fucked himself with this
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Once the guy died - the right thing to do would be to drop the suit and walk away proving his point that he was going to court to clear his name but that he didn't want to bankrupt the widow to do so.
Jesse could have proven his point, saved face, been the bigger man and walked away head holding high.
Now he looks like utter dog shit to everyone. SEAL's will never have a thing to do with him again, wont allow him at events, bars, etc in their prescence,
He fucked himself with this
While his wife collected millions and CONTINUED to spread the lie??? Ventura did the right thing in a no-win situation. Chris Kyle lied and his death from his own stupidty of taking a a guy with PTSD to a rifle range doesn't mean dick
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Once the guy died - the right thing to do would be to drop the suit and walk away proving his point that he was going to court to clear his name but that he didn't want to bankrupt the widow to do so.
Jesse could have proven his point, saved face, been the bigger man and walked away head holding high.
Now he looks like utter dog shit to everyone. SEAL's will never have a thing to do with him again, wont allow him at events, bars, etc in their prescence,
He fucked himself with this
Bankrupt the widow? They were directly making money off of Jesse Ventura via the phoney story. Jesse had a very hard case to prove. All legal experts say these type of cases are next to impossible to prove, yet Jesse was able to present more than enough evidence to win this case. Kyle`s death didn`t change anything nor did it fix the problem at hand.
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Bankrupt the widow? They were directly making money off of Jesse Ventura via the phoney story. Jesse had a very hard case to prove. All legal experts say these type of cases are next to impossible to prove, yet Jesse was able to present more than enough evidence to win this case. Kyle`s death didn`t change anything nor did it fix the problem at hand.
Again - in strict legal terms - fine. But Jesse says the most important thing to him was his standing in the SEAL community - which is now dog shit.
And he didn't prove shit - there was testimony on both sides and the jury believed his version. By his own statements now - he cant ever be amongst SEAL's again - so what did he prove and gain really? nothing .
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Again - in strict legal terms - fine. But Jesse says the most important thing to him was his standing in the SEAL community - which is now dog shit.
And he didn't prove shit - there was testimony on both sides and the jury believed his version. By his own statements now - he cant ever be amongst SEAL's again - so what did he prove and gain really? nothing .
The onus was on Jesse to prove that they were full of shit and making money off of him and he did. All legal opinions on this case that I have read said that Jesse had a nearly impossible task set before him and that these cases are extremely hard to prove, a high bar set legally, yet Jesse was able to bring it and prove it.
Seems like one side was certainly full of shit and one was not. If any SEAL hates Jesse for clearing his name, then they are morons. I don`t see how this in any way makes Jesse care less about SEALS or the military.
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Bankrupt the widow? They were directly making money off of Jesse Ventura via the phoney story. Jesse had a very hard case to prove. All legal experts say these type of cases are next to impossible to prove, yet Jesse was able to present more than enough evidence to win this case. Kyle`s death didn`t change anything nor did it fix the problem at hand.
Well to be fair the judge kinda made it a bit easier when he directed the jury to only look at whether Ventura was hit financially because of what was said.
It turned out to not be the same case the legal experts were saying was so hard to prove guilt in....
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The onus was on Jesse to prove that they were full of shit and making money off of him and he did. All legal opinions on this case that I have read said that Jesse had a nearly impossible task set before him and that these cases are extremely hard to prove, a high bar set legally, yet Jesse was able to bring it and prove it.
Seems like one side was certainly full of shit and one was not. If any SEAL hates Jesse for clearing his name, then they are morons. I don`t see how this in any way makes Jesse care less about SEALS or the military.
Because he was seeking $ for damages from the estate - not just clear his name.
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I think Jesse would have filed Assault charges if something like that would have ever happened.
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Has anyone actually read the book? How much of it is devoted to Ventura?
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Has anyone actually read the book? How much of it is devoted to Ventura?
I read it - it was a paragraph at best. He didn't mention Ventura by name either
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I read it - it was a paragraph at best. He didn't mention Ventura by name either
Seriously? What a friggin sissy.
Put that together with the fact the book proceeds were donated to the families of service members who were KIA and we have a candidate for douchebag of the year.
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I read it - it was a paragraph at best. He didn't mention Ventura by name either
What do you say to the fact that Ventura was able to obtain emails which showed the publisher was using "the fight" in order to sell the book.
One email read at the deposition said publishers were discussing an online marketing campaign that included "Jesse Ventura" as a keyword -- a plan Kyle said he wasn't told about.
In another email, an executive said a planned talk show rebuttal of Ventura's denial would be "a nice little bonus hit for us." A publicist said "the so-called 'incident' has helped the book go crazy," according to emails excerpts read in the deposition
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What do you say to the fact that Ventura was able to obtain emails which showed the publisher was using "the fight" in order to sell the book.
One email read at the deposition said publishers were discussing an online marketing campaign that included "Jesse Ventura" as a keyword -- a plan Kyle said he wasn't told about.
In another email, an executive said a planned talk show rebuttal of Ventura's denial would be "a nice little bonus hit for us." A publicist said "the so-called 'incident' has helped the book go crazy," according to emails excerpts read in the deposition
and? That was not what was in the book itself.
All im saying is Ventura went about "clearing his name" in the worst possible fashion imaginable
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and? That was not what was in the book itself.
All im saying is Ventura went about "clearing his name" in the worst possible fashion imaginable
No he didn`t.
Besides, Harper Collins is footing the bill as they have an Insurance Policy for this sort of thing.
Quit acting like the widow is losing out here.
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and? That was not what was in the book itself.
All im saying is Ventura went about "clearing his name" in the worst possible fashion imaginable
Completely agree.
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Completely agree.
And what would you have him do? What is a better way to expose the lies of Chris Kyle`s "fight"?
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And what would you have him do? What is a better way to expose the lies of Chris Kyle`s "fight"?
Issue a press release. Hold a press conference. Write an op ed. Not dignify it with a response. Take the high road. Plenty of ways to address it other than pursuing a lawsuit against the widow.
One friggin paragraph in a book. ::)
But he is a 911 Troofer, so we shouldn't expect much from him.
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Issue a press release. Hold a press conference. Write an op ed. Not dignify it with a response. Take the high road. Plenty of ways to address it other than pursuing a lawsuit against the widow.
One friggin paragraph in a book. ::)
But he is a 911 Troofer, so we shouldn't expect much from him.
Three pages.
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Three pages.
Soul Crusher said a paragraph. But let's assume it is three pages. He still acted like a little girl.
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Three pages.
It was a tiny part from what I remember - didn't mention ventura by name etc.
Not condoning if kyle lied about it - just saying the way venture went about it makes him look like garbage
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Has anyone actually read the book? How much of it is devoted to Ventura?
I did.
There was a paragraph about a bar fight (a couple AT MOST) and he wasnt even mentioned by name.... just that the man was speaking disgracefully of the dead and that he was a prominent figure.
I had no idea who he was talking about until the interview.
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Three pages.
No way man.... a couple paragraphs at most detailing the circumstances and describing the man himself... there was several pages talking about the bar and the SEAL that died, but the anonymous figure himself and the fight was only a paragraph or two.
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I did.
There was a paragraph about a bar fight (a couple AT MOST) and he wasnt even mentioned by name.... just that the man was speaking disgracefully of the dead and that he was a prominent figure.
I had no idea who he was talking about until the interview.
Thanks.
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Three pages is what they are removing from the book so far.
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Three pages is what they are removing from the book so far.
Did you read it? Shockwave and I did
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Three pages is what they are removing from the book so far.
Thats ludicrous... they must be removing anything to do with that bar or the SEAL that died.
Ridiculous.
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I read it - it was a paragraph at best. He didn't mention Ventura by name either
But Kyles did mention Ventura by name while promoting the book, didn't he?
I pretty sure I read that he talked about Ventura on a couple of radio shows.
Opie and Anthony was one of the shows and I forget the name of the other one.
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Completely agree.
Yeah, because it wasn't your name some lyin' sack was dragging through the mud in order to promote himself and make money.
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While his wife collected millions and CONTINUED to spread the lie??? Ventura did the right thing in a no-win situation. Chris Kyle lied and his death from his own stupidty of taking a a guy with PTSD to a rifle range doesn't mean dick
Agreed.
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Issue a press release. Hold a press conference. Write an op ed. Not dignify it with a response. Take the high road. Plenty of ways to address it other than pursuing a lawsuit against the widow.
One friggin paragraph in a book. ::)
But he is a 911 Troofer, so we shouldn't expect much from him.
First off, the widow will not be footing the bill, the publisher will have insurance to cover this. People need to stop with the phony sob story that Jesse went after the widow. After commencing the lawsuit while Chris was alive, Jesse should just up and drop it after his death and absorb the legal fees he's already put out, and allow his reputation to continue to be sullied? I think not.
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While his wife collected millions and CONTINUED to spread the lie??? Ventura did the right thing in a no-win situation. Chris Kyle lied and his death from his own stupidty of taking a a guy with PTSD to a rifle range doesn't mean dick
What the fuck are you talking about, you have some inside information again? The fuck head who shot Kyle was a POG, if he PTSD then you probably have it to from getting blasted in the face with jizz.
Chris Kyle is held in the highest regard in the SEAL community, James Janos is persona non grata.
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Yeah, because it wasn't your name some lyin' sack was dragging through the mud in order to promote himself and make money.
::) No, that's not why I agree with Soul Crusher that "Ventura went about 'clearing his name' in the worst possible fashion imaginable."
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First off, the widow will not be footing the bill, the publisher will have insurance to cover this. People need to stop with the phony sob story that Jesse went after the widow. After commencing the lawsuit while Chris was alive, Jesse should just up and drop it after his death and absorb the legal fees he's already put out, and allow his reputation to continue to be sullied? I think not.
How do you know the publisher paid for her legal defense and will pay the jury's award? Did you read that somewhere?
Yes, he went after the widow, because he continued the suit after the guy died.
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How do you know the publisher paid for her legal defense and will pay the jury's award? Did you read that somewhere?
Yes, he went after the widow, because he continued the suit after the guy died.
Even if he did, so what? If she's profiting off of a lie, it's wrong. There was opportunity to recant and it was not taken. In the end they lost. Tough shit for them.
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Even if he did, so what? If she's profiting off of a lie, it's wrong. There was opportunity to recant and it was not taken. In the end they lost. Tough shit for them.
How do you know the publisher is paying for her legal defense and the jury award?
She isn't profiting, because the book proceeds are going to the families of two service members who were KIA.
And this is a few paragraphs in a book. Hardly the reason why the book made money.
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How do you know the publisher is paying for her legal defense and the jury award?
She isn't profiting, because the book proceeds are going to the families of two service members who were KIA.
And this is a few paragraphs in a book. Hardly the reason why the book made money.
Because that's how it works. In the end, Jesse proved his case and won. It's totally irrelevant what she would have used the profits for. Using the proceeds for a perceived noble cause doesn't legitimize the ill gotten gains. And the publisher did purposefully use Jesse's name to boost sales, based on a lie. It's easy for others to cast aspersions when it's not their reputation being sullied.
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Because that's how it works. In the end, Jesse proved his case and won. It's totally irrelevant what she would have used the profits for. Using the proceeds for a perceived noble cause doesn't legitimize the ill gotten gains. And the publisher did purposefully use Jesse's name to boost sales, based on a lie. It's easy for others to cast aspersions when it's not their reputation being sullied.
It makes sense to me that the publisher would pay, but I haven't read or heard that they are in this case.
Nobody cared about those paragraphs in that book.
And again, she didn't profit from the book.
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It makes sense to me that the publisher would pay, but I haven't read or heard that they are in this case.
Nobody cared about those paragraphs in that book.
And again, she didn't profit from the book.
You're still missing the point.
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You're still missing the point.
No. I'm just disagreeing with you.
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Lots of good info here:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado)
Clearly, quite a few folks here don't really know what they're talking about.
It makes sense to me that the publisher would pay, but I haven't read or heard that they are in this case.
With the $500,000 defamation portion of the award covered by libel insurance, only $1.3 million will come out of the Kyle estate (and that’s assuming the judge even upholds that portion of the award).
...
Ventura noted on CBS This Morning Wednesday: “Taya Kyle had all of her attorney fees paid by insurance. I did not. I incurred two and a half years of lawyer fees that I have to pay to clear my name, and she had insurance paying everything for her. It was me against an insurance company.” Ventura added that he will use the winnings to pay off his attorneys’ fees.
Nobody cared about those paragraphs in that book.
MYTH: Even if Kyle lied about Ventura, his book sales weren’t significantly increased by that story, so Kyle did not profit from the defamation.
Wrong! In fact, the book made national headlines largely — and probably only — because of the salacious story about Ventura. Don’t believe me? No worries — take Kyle’s publicist’s word for it. At the time, the publicist remarked that the story was making the book’s sales “go crazy.”
And again, she didn't profit from the book.
MYTH: Taya Kyle and the kids are now broke because of Ventura! I hope someone is setting up a fund for them!
Ms. Kyle is a multimillionaire. With the $500,000 defamation portion of the award covered by libel insurance, only $1.3 million will come out of the Kyle estate (and that’s assuming the judge even upholds that portion of the award). In light of the reported $6 million in book profits, not to mention potential profits from future book royalties (once the movie releases in 2015, the book is sure to rocket in sales again), and Kyle’s no doubt robust life-insurance policies, to claim that this is cruel or a hardship on a destitute widow is ill informed and disingenuous.[/i]
...
MYTH: Kyle was a perfect person and an utterly honest one.
...
Specifically: Whatever happened to the repeated claim that the book’s proceeds would go/had gone to charity, benefiting the families of his fallen friends?
Consider what Kyle’s publisher wrote after his tragic passing: “He dedicated his life in recent years to supporting veterans and donated the proceeds of American Sniper to the families of his fallen friends” (italics mine). An article in the Blaze definitively proclaimed: “A perfect reflection of his character, Kyle gave all proceeds from his best-selling book American Sniper to the families of soldiers killed in combat” (italics mine). Or this line from a Human Events article: “For American Sniper, Kyle donated the profits from that book to charity.” Kyle himself perpetuated this idea, telling the same proceeds-went-to-charity tale to the Texas News Service and even adding that he regularly received tearful calls and letters of thanks.
And now for the kicker: It isn’t true. Out of the staggering $3 million that American Sniper collected in royalties for Kyle, only $52,000 actually went to the families of fallen servicemen. (Rather than 100 percent of the proceeds, as the public was led to believe, try 2 percent!) While Kyle’s widow claimed, in her testimony, that they never intended to profit from the book, and “wanted” to donate the money to other veterans, she said they were weren’t able to because of — get this! — “gift-tax laws that prevented them from donating more than $13,000 each to two families last year.”
When Ventura’s attorney asked why they did not simply create a nonprofit (standard practice) to be able to give away the money without gift-tax concerns, Kyle said she had not had the time to set up such a nonprofit.
Separately, she noted: “We are trying to find the right places and not just throw it away.”
It’s true that giving money away effectively is more challenging than many people realize. But it’s hard to believe neither of the Kyles was able to sort this problem out: Surely it is quite easy to locate the struggling families of fallen servicemen. And the challenges of setting up a nonprofit don’t excuse the Kyles’ and the publisher’s strongly implying, and allowing others to claim unambiguously, that they were giving all the money away when this was clearly not true.
Why is there no concern for those families of other veterans — many of whom, unlike Kyle’s supposedly destitute widow, probably are struggling financially? Do those families, who were supposed to receive help, not matter?
So what does this all demonstrate, and why should it matter?
For one, Americans are showing a disturbing level of either support or disregard for the legal system — based solely on what they think of the parties involved. That is a dangerous approach. It’s against the fundamentals of justice to decide how you feel about a case based on how much you like the defendant or plaintiff, rather than the facts.
More important, however, it demonstrates a worrisome level of blind hero worship. The idea that, because Kyle served his country bravely and honorably, he was therefore always honorable in all aspects of his life, and can do no wrong, ever, is preposterous. As Pocket Full of Liberty’s editor Skyler Mann wondered: “Not about Chris Kyle in particular but the hullaboo makes me wonder: if a veteran does something super sh**** is it OK because s/he’s a vet?”
A jury, with far more information than we the public have (including the chance to listen to witness testimony and watch Kyle’s deposition), essentially found that Kyle lied. The fact that many conservatives are furiously shaking their heads, refusing to accept this, and taking it even further by attacking Ventura for daring to clear his name is extremely disturbing. Ventura is the jerk for suing to restore his reputation — not Chris Kyle for lying and making an easy target sound like a demon, for the sake of financial gain and publicity.
Got it, that makes perfect sense. We supported George Zimmerman’s defamation lawsuit, but not Jesse Ventura’s. Apparently, it’s not the merits or facts of the case, but rather how likeable the parties are, that determines whom American public opinion supports. Listening to the outrage brigade on social media, big on demagoguery but short on facts, one can conclude that (a) widows can never be sued nor are capable of unjustly profiting and (b) war heroes are perfect in every regard of their lives, forever.
This is blind hero worship, at its most embarrassing.
— A. J. Delgado is a conservative writer and lawyer. She writes about politics and culture.
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..I read that he talked about Ventura on a couple of radio shows.
Opie and Anthony was one of the shows and I forget the name of the other one.
my man, Poppa Bear hisself, Billo Reilly
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Lots of good info here:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado)
Clearly, quite a few folks here don't really know what they're talking about.
With the $500,000 defamation portion of the award covered by libel insurance, only $1.3 million will come out of the Kyle estate (and that’s assuming the judge even upholds that portion of the award).
...
Ventura noted on CBS This Morning Wednesday: “Taya Kyle had all of her attorney fees paid by insurance. I did not. I incurred two and a half years of lawyer fees that I have to pay to clear my name, and she had insurance paying everything for her. It was me against an insurance company.” Ventura added that he will use the winnings to pay off his attorneys’ fees.
MYTH: Even if Kyle lied about Ventura, his book sales weren’t significantly increased by that story, so Kyle did not profit from the defamation.
Wrong! In fact, the book made national headlines largely — and probably only — because of the salacious story about Ventura. Don’t believe me? No worries — take Kyle’s publicist’s word for it. At the time, the publicist remarked that the story was making the book’s sales “go crazy.”
MYTH: Taya Kyle and the kids are now broke because of Ventura! I hope someone is setting up a fund for them!
Ms. Kyle is a multimillionaire. With the $500,000 defamation portion of the award covered by libel insurance, only $1.3 million will come out of the Kyle estate (and that’s assuming the judge even upholds that portion of the award). In light of the reported $6 million in book profits, not to mention potential profits from future book royalties (once the movie releases in 2015, the book is sure to rocket in sales again), and Kyle’s no doubt robust life-insurance policies, to claim that this is cruel or a hardship on a destitute widow is ill informed and disingenuous.[/i]
...
MYTH: Kyle was a perfect person and an utterly honest one.
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Specifically: Whatever happened to the repeated claim that the book’s proceeds would go/had gone to charity, benefiting the families of his fallen friends?
Consider what Kyle’s publisher wrote after his tragic passing: “He dedicated his life in recent years to supporting veterans and donated the proceeds of American Sniper to the families of his fallen friends” (italics mine). An article in the Blaze definitively proclaimed: “A perfect reflection of his character, Kyle gave all proceeds from his best-selling book American Sniper to the families of soldiers killed in combat” (italics mine). Or this line from a Human Events article: “For American Sniper, Kyle donated the profits from that book to charity.” Kyle himself perpetuated this idea, telling the same proceeds-went-to-charity tale to the Texas News Service and even adding that he regularly received tearful calls and letters of thanks.
And now for the kicker: It isn’t true. Out of the staggering $3 million that American Sniper collected in royalties for Kyle, only $52,000 actually went to the families of fallen servicemen. (Rather than 100 percent of the proceeds, as the public was led to believe, try 2 percent!) While Kyle’s widow claimed, in her testimony, that they never intended to profit from the book, and “wanted” to donate the money to other veterans, she said they were weren’t able to because of — get this! — “gift-tax laws that prevented them from donating more than $13,000 each to two families last year.”
When Ventura’s attorney asked why they did not simply create a nonprofit (standard practice) to be able to give away the money without gift-tax concerns, Kyle said she had not had the time to set up such a nonprofit.
Separately, she noted: “We are trying to find the right places and not just throw it away.”
It’s true that giving money away effectively is more challenging than many people realize. But it’s hard to believe neither of the Kyles was able to sort this problem out: Surely it is quite easy to locate the struggling families of fallen servicemen. And the challenges of setting up a nonprofit don’t excuse the Kyles’ and the publisher’s strongly implying, and allowing others to claim unambiguously, that they were giving all the money away when this was clearly not true.
Why is there no concern for those families of other veterans — many of whom, unlike Kyle’s supposedly destitute widow, probably are struggling financially? Do those families, who were supposed to receive help, not matter?
So what does this all demonstrate, and why should it matter?
For one, Americans are showing a disturbing level of either support or disregard for the legal system — based solely on what they think of the parties involved. That is a dangerous approach. It’s against the fundamentals of justice to decide how you feel about a case based on how much you like the defendant or plaintiff, rather than the facts.
More important, however, it demonstrates a worrisome level of blind hero worship. The idea that, because Kyle served his country bravely and honorably, he was therefore always honorable in all aspects of his life, and can do no wrong, ever, is preposterous. As Pocket Full of Liberty’s editor Skyler Mann wondered: “Not about Chris Kyle in particular but the hullaboo makes me wonder: if a veteran does something super sh**** is it OK because s/he’s a vet?”
A jury, with far more information than we the public have (including the chance to listen to witness testimony and watch Kyle’s deposition), essentially found that Kyle lied. The fact that many conservatives are furiously shaking their heads, refusing to accept this, and taking it even further by attacking Ventura for daring to clear his name is extremely disturbing. Ventura is the jerk for suing to restore his reputation — not Chris Kyle for lying and making an easy target sound like a demon, for the sake of financial gain and publicity.
Got it, that makes perfect sense. We supported George Zimmerman’s defamation lawsuit, but not Jesse Ventura’s. Apparently, it’s not the merits or facts of the case, but rather how likeable the parties are, that determines whom American public opinion supports. Listening to the outrage brigade on social media, big on demagoguery but short on facts, one can conclude that (a) widows can never be sued nor are capable of unjustly profiting and (b) war heroes are perfect in every regard of their lives, forever.
This is blind hero worship, at its most embarrassing.
— A. J. Delgado is a conservative writer and lawyer. She writes about politics and culture.
Thats pretty ridiculous writing... I dont lnow pf anyone who believed any of those things.
For one, I dont know anyone who read that bool because of Ventura... im sute plenty of people did but the assertion tbat its success was due to ventura is ridiculous, especially when you consider the success of other SEAL autobiographies such as Lone Survivor. .. the success is more aptly attributable to them being writtem by SEALs after the limelight was cast onto them.
Ajd I dont think anyone thought that Kyle was a perfext human.... hell his career was to end lives. Hr made no 2 bones about it in his book either, he didnt pretend to be some kond of righteous humanitarian. He was a cowboy plain and simple, who lived to servw his countey and save his fellow service men and women and to kill bad guys.
There is far to much blind hero worship on BOTH sides of this story. Everyone that likes Ventura calls Lyle a lying sack of shit and completely ignores Venturas blatant history of lying, bullshit, and controversy, and Kyles supporters do the exact same.
Theres a reason that the SEAL community excommunicated Ventura and its not because of a couple paragraphs about an anonymous guy in a book.
Im sure Kyle told his fair share of tall tales but the fact remains that his military history actually happened and is (for the most part) accpunted for. Also he had plenty of people in that bar that corroborated his story.
Venturas war stories literally never happened because he spent the majority of his time in the Phillipines and was never even a fcking SEAL like he always claimed,
However, he also had his supporters in that bar and their story was tighter than the SEALs and thr jury made their decision fairly based on the evidence provided.
Do I think Ventura is being a bit hypocritical and completely childish going after them for this? Yes. I think hed have been bettwe of just laughing it off, saying it never happened and moved on. Ita not like this proved anything to anyone anyway, everyone that bekueved Kyle STILL believes Kyle amd everyone that believed Ventura still believes Ventura. All he did was to go to great lengths to 'clear his name', which wont even happen anyway. Now everyone thay didnt believe him in the 1st place thinks hes an even bigger asshole.
Thats just the reality of it. To think the general public are going to completely change thwir mind over something jist because a jury said 'well his version of evens was tighter than kyles' is ludicrous and to me just underlines that this wasnt really about 'clearing his name', but about going after someone who made him butthurt.
Ventra is a historical and proven liar and exaggerator, kyle has stories thaty cant be verified one way or the other, BUT the majority of his stuff is legit military history.. both had their corroborators for their stories, venturas was just tighter.
Bottom line -
Impossible to say definitively one guy was lying and the other wasnt, but ventura wasted a bunch of time and money on a wild goose chase that did NOTHING for anyone but hurt everyone involved.
Lose/lose for them all. Hes not goinh to suddenly get his name back and hes not goinf to be welcomed back into the community with open arms either. He literally just fucked himself and everyone else put of pride.
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Grammar is horrible in that post, I know. Posted from my cell.
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Thats pretty ridiculous writing... I dont lnow pf anyone who believed any of those things.
For one, I dont know anyone who read that bool because of Ventura... im sute plenty of people did but the assertion tbat its success was due to ventura is ridiculous, especially when you consider the success of other SEAL autobiographies such as Lone Survivor. .. the success is more aptly attributable to them being writtem by SEALs after the limelight was cast onto them.
Ajd I dont think anyone thought that Kyle was a perfext human.... hell his career was to end lives. Hr made no 2 bones about it in his book either, he didnt pretend to be some kond of righteous humanitarian. He was a cowboy plain and simple, who lived to servw his countey and save his fellow service men and women and to kill bad guys.
There is far to much blind hero worship on BOTH sides of this story. Everyone that likes Ventura calls Lyle a lying sack of shit and completely ignores Venturas blatant history of lying, bullshit, and controversy, and Kyles supporters do the exact same.
Theres a reason that the SEAL community excommunicated Ventura and its not because of a couple paragraphs about an anonymous guy in a book.
Im sure Kyle told his fair share of tall tales but the fact remains that his military history actually happened and is (for the most part) accpunted for. Also he had plenty of people in that bar that corroborated his story.
Venturas war stories literally never happened because he spent the majority of his time in the Phillipines and was never even a fcking SEAL like he always claimed,
However, he also had his supporters in that bar and their story was tighter than the SEALs and thr jury made their decision fairly based on the evidence provided.
Do I think Ventura is being a bit hypocritical and completely childish going after them for this? Yes. I think hed have been bettwe of just laughing it off, saying it never happened and moved on. Ita not like this proved anything to anyone anyway, everyone that bekueved Kyle STILL believes Kyle amd everyone that believed Ventura still believes Ventura. All he did was to go to great lengths to 'clear his name', which wont even happen anyway. Now everyone thay didnt believe him in the 1st place thinks hes an even bigger asshole.
Thats just the reality of it. To think the general public are going to completely change thwir mind over something jist because a jury said 'well his version of evens was tighter than kyles' is ludicrous and to me just underlines that this wasnt really about 'clearing his name', but about going after someone who made him butthurt.
Ventra is a historical and proven liar and exaggerator, kyle has stories thaty cant be verified one way or the other, BUT the majority of his stuff is legit military history.. both had their corroborators for their stories, venturas was just tighter.
Bottom line -
Impossible to say definitively one guy was lying and the other wasnt, but ventura wasted a bunch of time and money on a wild goose chase that did NOTHING for anyone but hurt everyone involved.
Lose/lose for them all. Hes not goinh to suddenly get his name back and hes not goinf to be welcomed back into the community with open arms either. He literally just fucked himself and everyone else put of pride.
Proven Liar? Can you please link me to where Jesse has been proven as a liar? Also what has he lied about?
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Proven Liar? Can you please link me to where Jesse has been proven as a liar? Also what has he lied about?
Jesse 9/11 truther show was a joke
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Proven Liar? Can you please link me to where Jesse has been proven as a liar? Also what has he lied about?
Im at work, ill dig up the vietnam SEAL vets that exposed Venturas SEAL war stories as a bunch of horseshit. He was never a SEAL, as was pointed out, he was UDT, and he had claimed a bunch of combat stories when he was younger than turned put to be BS as he was never a part of a SEAL team. UDT teams didnt see combat like SEAL teams... they were strictly underwater demolition, where the SEAL teams actually performed direct action combat ops.
Also, to be a SEAL, he would have had to go through a ton of extra training that he did not. Any UDT coyld volunteer and go through the extra training, but he didnt.
Several vets who actually WERE on the teams that ventura claimed to be a part of called his bluff. When called on it, he didnt answer directly... after a long while his political team said 'UDT and SEAL are used interchangeably in the modern military', which is a half truth and doesnt at all deal with his claims on being a vietnam SEAL who was on direct action ops.
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Thats pretty ridiculous writing... I dont lnow pf anyone who believed any of those things.
For one, I dont know anyone who read that bool because of Ventura... im sute plenty of people did but the assertion tbat its success was due to ventura is ridiculous, especially when you consider the success of other SEAL autobiographies such as Lone Survivor. .. the success is more aptly attributable to them being writtem by SEALs after the limelight was cast onto them.
Ajd I dont think anyone thought that Kyle was a perfext human.... hell his career was to end lives. Hr made no 2 bones about it in his book either, he didnt pretend to be some kond of righteous humanitarian. He was a cowboy plain and simple, who lived to servw his countey and save his fellow service men and women and to kill bad guys.
There is far to much blind hero worship on BOTH sides of this story. Everyone that likes Ventura calls Lyle a lying sack of shit and completely ignores Venturas blatant history of lying, bullshit, and controversy, and Kyles supporters do the exact same.
Theres a reason that the SEAL community excommunicated Ventura and its not because of a couple paragraphs about an anonymous guy in a book.
Im sure Kyle told his fair share of tall tales but the fact remains that his military history actually happened and is (for the most part) accpunted for. Also he had plenty of people in that bar that corroborated his story.
Venturas war stories literally never happened because he spent the majority of his time in the Phillipines and was never even a fcking SEAL like he always claimed,
However, he also had his supporters in that bar and their story was tighter than the SEALs and thr jury made their decision fairly based on the evidence provided.
Do I think Ventura is being a bit hypocritical and completely childish going after them for this? Yes. I think hed have been bettwe of just laughing it off, saying it never happened and moved on. Ita not like this proved anything to anyone anyway, everyone that bekueved Kyle STILL believes Kyle amd everyone that believed Ventura still believes Ventura. All he did was to go to great lengths to 'clear his name', which wont even happen anyway. Now everyone thay didnt believe him in the 1st place thinks hes an even bigger asshole.
Thats just the reality of it. To think the general public are going to completely change thwir mind over something jist because a jury said 'well his version of evens was tighter than kyles' is ludicrous and to me just underlines that this wasnt really about 'clearing his name', but about going after someone who made him butthurt.
Ventra is a historical and proven liar and exaggerator, kyle has stories thaty cant be verified one way or the other, BUT the majority of his stuff is legit military history.. both had their corroborators for their stories, venturas was just tighter.
Bottom line -
Impossible to say definitively one guy was lying and the other wasnt, but ventura wasted a bunch of time and money on a wild goose chase that did NOTHING for anyone but hurt everyone involved.
Lose/lose for them all. Hes not goinh to suddenly get his name back and hes not goinf to be welcomed back into the community with open arms either. He literally just fucked himself and everyone else put of pride.
Well said. Much more insightful than that article. Don't worry about the grammar. Only the resident Grammar Nazi will care about that. :)
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Ok, it is pretty established that both Jesse and Kyles were/are liars. No denying or arguing that. The only purpose is whether or not the lie told by one was at the expense of the other.
I have actually read the book and in all honesty there is a mention of the (allegedly) altercation. But Jesse is not mentioned in the book by name and the incident was mentioned in passing. The book is primarily about Kyle's initiation into the SEAL ranks, his service overseas and (of course) the reason he is well known : for killing people.
Whether or not the publishing company or their rep or anyone else marketed this off Ventura's fame I don't know. (Didn't follow it) However, it appears that the lie told about Ventura is questionable and at the cost of his character. The jury seemed to find that Jesse was defamed/damaged/whatever by the lie and sided accordingly. Which of course means that Jesse will be / should be awarded damages. It isn't a question of whether or not the widow is being attacked as it is estate of Kyles is liable for any damages unless the publishing company or person who parroted this allegation wants to pick up the tab.
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Ok, it is pretty established that both Jesse and Kyles were/are liars. No denying or arguing that. The only purpose is whether or not the lie told by one was at the expense of the other.
I have actually read the book and in all honesty there is a mention of the (allegedly) altercation. But Jesse is not mentioned in the book by name and the incident was mentioned in passing. The book is primarily about Kyle's initiation into the SEAL ranks, his service overseas and (of course) the reason he is well known : for killing people.
Whether or not the publishing company or their rep or anyone else marketed this off Ventura's fame I don't know. (Didn't follow it) However, it appears that the lie told about Ventura is questionable and at the cost of his character. The jury seemed to find that Jesse was defamed/damaged/whatever by the lie and sided accordingly. Which of course means that Jesse will be / should be awarded damages. It isn't a question of whether or not the widow is being attacked as it is estate of Kyles is liable for any damages unless the publishing company or person who parroted this allegation wants to pick up the tab.
???
What are you going by as "proof" that Jesse is a liar? Just by you claiming that doesn`t make it true you know.
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???
What are you going by as "proof" that Jesse is a liar? Just by you claiming that doesn`t make it true you know.
I am sure that being a politician Jesse has some told some untruths that are on record. I am not going to look them up. The very fact of being a politician means that they are going to lie about something.
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His whole CT series was nonsense
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I am sure that being a politician Jesse has some told some untruths that are on record. I am not going to look them up. The very fact of being a politician means that they are going to lie about something.
LOL
So in other words, you just made it up that he lied. I kind of figured as much.
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I am sure that being a politician Jesse has some told some untruths that are on record. I am not going to look them up. The very fact of being a politician means that they are going to lie about something.
You must be a prosecutor. lol
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LOL
So in other words, you just made it up that he lied. I kind of figured as much.
you know SC likes to make things up. It is one of the adorable things about him.
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Well said. Much more insightful than that article. Don't worry about the grammar. Only the resident Grammar Nazi will care about that. :)
Did you learn anything from the article, BB? Even though it came from that "liberal rag" The National Review Online, lol? (For the few that don't know, NRO is a conservative website.)
Surely you must have thought this part was notable:
Out of the staggering $3 million that American Sniper collected in royalties for Kyle, only $52,000 actually went to the families of fallen servicemen. (Rather than 100 percent of the proceeds, as the public was led to believe, try 2 percent!)
Honestly, I agree with most of Shockwave's post in that I think that regardless of the court's findings, Ventura had no hope of regaining his stature in the "Seal community".
Hopefully though, the money along with the court's official judgement will help him deal with that.
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Did you learn anything from the article, BB? Even though it came from that "liberal rag" The National Review Online, lol? (For the few that don't know, NRO is a conservative website.)
Surely you must have thought this part was notable:
Out of the staggering $3 million that American Sniper collected in royalties for Kyle, only $52,000 actually went to the families of fallen servicemen. (Rather than 100 percent of the proceeds, as the public was led to believe, try 2 percent!)
Honestly, I agree with most of Shockwave's post in that I think that regardless of the court's findings, Ventura had no hope of regaining his stature in the "Seal community".
Hopefully though, the money along with the court's official judgement will help him deal with that.
Yes, there are additional unverified facts in the opinion piece you posted. Doesn't change my opinion one bit about Ventura being a butt-hurt sissy and a world class douchebag (a word I use sparingly).
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Yes, there are additional unverified facts in the opinion piece you posted. Doesn't change my opinion one bit about Ventura being a butt-hurt sissy and a world class douchebag (a word I use sparingly).
Holy shit, newly-learned facts not changing BB's opinion "one bit"? Stop the presses! LOL
FWIW, the only reason I directed my last post to you was because (IIRC) you seemed to express some interest in learning details about who'd be bearing the brunt of the financial penalty against the Kyles estate. And, since this "unverified fact" came from a conservative source, I thought you'd probably find it a little more believable than the same info from, say, Mother Jones. (BTW, when it comes down to it, everything is pretty much of an "unverified fact", isn't it? lol)
Lastly, I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by writing that you only sparingly use the term "world class douchebag"? (Or is it just "douchebag" without the world-class part?) I mean, you have been known to indulge in name calling so are you just saying that there is special about that particular insult?
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Holy shit, newly-learned facts not changing BB's opinion "one bit"? Stop the presses! LOL
FWIW, the only reason I directed my last post to you was because (IIRC) you seemed to express some interest in learning details about who'd be bearing the brunt of the financial penalty against the Kyles estate. And, since this "unverified fact" came from a conservative source, I thought you'd probably find it a little more believable than the same info from, say, Mother Jones. (BTW, when it comes down to it, everything is pretty much of an "unverified fact", isn't it? lol)
Lastly, I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by writing that you only sparingly use the term "world class douchebag"? (Or is it just "douchebag" without the world-class part?) I mean, you have been known to indulge in name calling so are you just saying that there is special about that particular insult?
Not changing my overall opinion based on facts that do nothing to alter the core facts of this whole situation? Imagine that. ::) I appreciate the information about whether insurance was involved. I was curious about that, but not because it changes whether or not Ventura should have sued this widow.
I didn't care about the source. I read liberal and conservative sources pretty much every day. As an aside, people who live on the Daily Kos, watch nothing but MSNBC, only rely on Huffington Post, etc. tend to have a warped world view.
Yes, being a "world class douchebag" is a special insult. I use the word "douchebag" sparingly. Not sure I've ever used "world class douchebag"? If I have, I don't remember. But it certainly applies to Ventura.
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So... I was digging around looking for the original site I had read about years ago but I can't find the link. There was plenty referencing it though. Heres a quick link...
http://cursor.org/venturawatch/dangerous_game.htm
Jesse's Dangerous Game
A former Navy SEAL commander questions Ventura's claim that he hunted man in Vietnam.
by Bill Salisbury
POSTED MAY 8, 2001--- MINNEAPOLIS-- A few weeks before the revelation that ex-Navy SEAL Bob Kerrey was involved in the death of civilians during the Vietnam War, Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura had ignited a controversy of his own by boasting in a confrontational interview with a Minneapolis Star Tribune columnist that he had "hunted man" as a Navy SEAL in Vietnam.
Resources:
April 5, 2001
Mpls Star Tribune
Transcript of "hunting man" interview
April 5, 2001
Mpls Star Tribune
Initial news story about interview
April 7, 2001
Mpls Star Tribune
Ventura apologizes to hunters
December 2, 1999
San Diego Reader
Jesse "The Great Pretender" Ventura
December 21, 1999
Cursor.org
Cursor researches Ventura's Navy SEAL quotes
HomeOfHeroes.com
Ribbon Awards of the U.S. Navy
How to publicly post a DD 214
US Navy
How to file a FOIA request with the U.S. Navy
UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam, by T.L. Bosiljevac
Navy SEAL Web site index
Navy SEALs Vietnam memorial page
Exposing fake Navy SEALs:
Night Scribe
Cyber Seals Wall of Shame
Cursor home
Initial press coverage focused on how Ventura's assertion that "until you hunted man, you haven't hunted yet," had riled many Minnesotans who hunt only non-human game. But more importantly, Ventura's claim invites a revisiting of long-standing questions about his military service, as it raises new ones about what the governor did, or didn't do, in Vietnam.
In December, 1999, I wrote an article for the San Diego Reader titled, "Jesse (The Great Pretender) Ventura." The article challenged Ventura's claim that as James Janos he'd been a SEAL in Vietnam. I wrote that Janos had not been a SEAL but merely a member of Underwater Demolition Team (UDT) 12 who had been stationed in the Philippines and not Vietnam.
The article relied on several interviews with real SEALS who had been in Nam and UDT men who had served with Janos. I also drew on my 16 years as a SEAL, that included a combat tour as officer-in-charge of SEAL Team 1, Detachment Golf, duty as executive officer of SEAL Team 2 during the war, and a stint as commanding officer of UDT 11 after the war.
Before going to press I asked Ventura's spokesman, John Wodele, for the governor's comment. "We will have no comment on something so obviously false," said Wodele in an indignant, imperial tone. (In fairness to Wodele, I didn't tell him of my own SEAL and UDT credentials, but left him to assume I was just some West Coast "jackal" whining and snapping at his boss's heels.)
Ventura continued to hide behind Wodele and his stone wall when I appeared on the Fox News Channel program "Hannity and Colmes" a few days after the Reader article appeared. When Fox asked Ventura to respond, Wodele wrote: "The only thing we have ever said is that the UDT and SEAL designation is interchangeable and we don't have any further comment."
Why would Ventura - who loves to run his mouth about having been a SEAL - suddenly clam up when I publicly stated in so many words that he was, as my grandma used to say, full of more crap than a Christmas turkey? The governor could have silenced me and his growing pack of critics by simply producing his discharge certificate from active duty, called a DD 214. If he'd been one of America's roughest, toughest, meanest mothers, then that document would list Then there's your UDT buddy, Gary 'Bones' Bonnelli, who says you weren't in Nam with him, but that you were floating around the South China Sea, on a ship with the Amphibious Ready Group -- making ports of call in such high-threat areas as Hong Kong, Singapore, and Bangkok.the qualification for all the world to see. And if the SEAL/UDT designation were truly interchangeable, the form would reflect that. But I know it doesn't without even looking at it. The UDT designation, or Navy Enlisted Classification (NEC) - was 5321/22 and the SEAL designation was 5326.
How do I know this? Because as the executive officer of SEAL Team 2, I recommended men for the 5326 designation after they had completed a six month probationary period. Many of these men came from UDTs as 5321/22s. As commanding officer of UDT 11, I awarded the 5321/22 designation to frogmen after their probationary period. Interchangeable designation my ass.
If Jesse were a SEAL, his DD 214 would also list at least one "Presidential Unit Citation for service Nam." How do I know this? Because of my duty with both SEAL Teams during the war. Every SEAL who served with Teams 1 and 2 received at least one DD 214 (NOT Jesse's)of the five Presidential Unit Citations awarded those units. UDTs received none. So c'mon, Jesse, show us your DD 214. You can even do that without breaking your vow never to talk about what you did as a "SEAL" in Nam.
But no fair relying on public pronouncements by your old toadies in the Teams, or a scrap of paper signed by some fawning Navy bureaucrat 30 years later, saying it's okay for you to call yourself a SEAL because UDTs were decommissioned in 1983. After all, you wouldn't want to be dismissed as a "Paper SEAL" would you? I mean it's okay for some pencil-necked sandcrab like George Plimpton to joke about being a "Paper Tiger" instead of a true major leaguer, but aren't you claiming to be the real deal: an ass-kicking, name-taking Navy SEAL?
Of course if you're unwilling to share your DD 214, then your pet jackals in the Twin Cities might want to fire off a Freedom of Information Act request to the Navy. Or they could request a copy of the UDT 12 Command History for the years you were with that team (1971- 1974). They could read the "History" to see if you got any ink for combat exploits. Hell. if you truly saw combat with Team 12 - faced Charley or Clyde at a given time in a given place with the burnt smell of expended rounds in the air - that would be good enough for me. I wouldn't quibble over whether you were a Frog or a SEAL and you could lay this controversy to rest - give it a double tap, an ear shot.
Another good resource is the Commander Naval Forces Vietnam monthly combat summaries that cover your time in the Western Pacific. Or the UDT 12 Cruise Book that chronicledCover of Jesse's UDT 12 Cruise Book your team's deployments. (SEALS didn't have time for such books.) You could even share your copy with them. One of your former commanding officers at UDT 12 shared his copy with me and said you'd never been in combat. Said he didn't remember you too well at all except as a guy who was good for morale because you had a great sense of humor. Your former CO was with me in Nam before he took over Team 12. He doesn't think the terms UDT and SEAL were interchangeable.
Then there's your UDT buddy, Gary "Bones" Bonnelli, who was one of a very few UDT 12 frogmen stationed in Nam, at a place near the Nam Can Forest called Solid Anchor. Bonnelli says you weren't in Nam with him, but that you were floating around the South China Sea on a ship with the Amphibious Ready Group, making ports of call in such high-threat areas as Hong Kong, Singapore, and Bangkok.
Another picture of James Janos, far leftAnd sure enough, when I read your old CO's Cruise Book I saw Bonnelli and others listed as having been in 'Nam, but all I found about you was that you'd played on the UDT 12 basketball team in the Philippines, at the naval station in Subic Bay.
Anyone wanting to avoid the hassle of prying documents from the Navy should get T.L. Bosiljevac's book, UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam, (Ivy, 1990.) Bosiljevac, a SEAL officer, reviewed command histories, cruise books, and monthly operational summaries to compile a chronological narrative of every UDT and SEAL combat action in Nam. The Navy-sponsored research was part of his master's thesis at the Naval Postgraduate School.
I've also learned from men who served with you in UDT 12 that you deployed to the Western Pacific (WESTPAC) during the war from February to October 1971. I checked UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam for that period and here's what I found. UDT 12 is mentioned only twice: "UDT 12 relieved UDT 13 in February as the WESTPAC - deployed underwater demolition team (page 155); "(A four-man SEAL detachment) spent 8 August to 22 September with UDT 12 aboard the USS Grayback to assist in training (page 160)." As you know, the Grayback was a submarine that operated out of Subic Bay.
While you were in WESTPAC as a frogman, here's a sampling of what SEALS were up to in Nam:
Raided a VC financial meeting on 9 February, killing four guerrillas and capturing four others.
Conducted a daylight helo raid on 13 February, killing three VC and destroying a twenty-man rest area.
Attacked an enemy base on 20 February, killing one Chinese propaganda officer and wounding five others.
Killed eight VC and captured numerous weapons on 24 February.
Killed five VC and captured five others on 7 March.
Killed two VC and captured three others along with a VC flag and kilo of documents on 15 March.
Killed 3 VC aboard four sampans on 12 May.
Killed five VC attending a political meeting on 7 July.
Killed 8 VC in hand-to-hand combat on 23 August.
Killed 2 VC guarding a weapons cache on 28 August.
SEALs interchangeable with UDTs? I think not.
But SEALS didn't always win the manhunting contests while you were shooting hoops in the Philippines and pulling liberty in Hong Kong: a SEAL squad transiting the Ham Luong Canal on 28 February took heavy casualties when a B-40 rocket slammed into their boat; Lieutenant Michael Collins of SEAL Team 1 died on 4 March after suffering multiple fragmentation wounds from a VC ambush (more about Mike later); Petty Officer Lester Moe of SEAL Team 1 was killed walking point on 19 March when he stepped on a "Bouncing Betty" mine. And so it went Jesse, for SEALS but not frogmen during your deployment.
Of course maybe Bosiljevac somehow missed your manhunting ops. Tell you what - as one old SEAL/UDT manhunter to another - let's share a war story or Bosiljevac's Booktwo and give those who dream of being warriors a glimpse of the glamour.
Here are two "no shitters"- as your fellow celeb "Demo" Dick Marcinko might put it - that have stayed with me for a long time.
Many SEALS like to talk about the first man they killed. I sometimes do that. He was a VC courier sliding along the Upper Dong Tam River in a sampan beneath overhanging branches to avoid detection from the air. I brain-shot him with a CAR 15 - a weapon that looks like a toy. I was close enough to see blood and bone spray when the round struck.
But I usually don't talk about the first man I killed, Jesse. I usually talk about the first man I watched die. His name was Bobby Neal and he worked for me when I ran three SEAL platoons out of Nha Be 30 miles below Saigon on the border of a 500-square mile swamp called the Rung Sat. Neal took a lot longer to die than the courier. Neal was 18 when he got hit: he'd enlisted at 17 on what you may remember the Navy called a "kiddie cruise."
A Chicom grenade that exploded in the well-deck of a Mike boat perforated Neal's stomach lining. After the dustoff helo took him to Binh Hoa, I thought he would make it. I continued to think so until my third visit. On that visit I saw that they'd moved him away from the other wounded in the Quonset hut to a small room behind a partition. He was alone in the room except for a nurse. As I approached Neal's bed the nurse cautioned me that he was very weak. "He's a guarded case," she whispered, "he has peritonitis."
At the time I didn't know what peritonitis meant, Jesse, even though I was 26 - which was getting up there for a manhunter in that war or perhaps in any war.
I've run the Neal movie through my brain so often that the setting and dialogue remain as clear now as on the day I stood by his bed, looking at his pale, slender body covered from the waist down by a sheet. Neal's eyes were closed, his head turned so that I could see the crescent on his scalp where they had shaved his thick black hair to get at the shrapnel. His arm stretched out to receive the trickle of clear fluid coming through a tube from a bottle above the bed.
"Neal," I said softly, "Neal."
He opened his eyes and turned his head toward me. His eyes were dark and seemed too large for his face, like the eyes of a child in a Betanzos painting.
"Oh, what? Oh, I thought you were someone else."
"It's me. How you feeling?"
"Not bad, sir. But I can't move. I mean I got so many tubes in me that all I can move is this arm and my head. Used to have a tube up my nose and couldn't even move my head then."
With his free hand he grasped the sheet covering him and pulled it farther down. "See all those tubes?," he asked. A T-shaped bandage stretched across the boy's stomach and down his groin; two plastic tubes extended from beneath the bandage to a pair of bottles placed on a low table next to the bed.
"Well, those tubes are so I can shit and piss, see. Then there's another tube beneath the bandage to drain pus outa my gut. They change the bandage a lot and Christ does it stink. Like something rotten."
The boy began to breathe heavily as if unused to the effort of so much talking.
I said, "You look good, Bobby. Just take it easy. Don't talk so much if it's a strain."
"Oh no, no. I like to talk."
"I brought you some letters. I'll put them on the table and you can read them later, or have the nurse read them to you."
"Thank you, sir. Who are they from?"
"Two are from your parents."
"My parents?"
"Yes, from Virginia."
"Oh, there must be some mistake, sir. You see my parents are in Saigon. My mother visits me every day."
"I see. How are your parents?"
"Very fine, sir. Except my mom doesn't like being so far away from me. It's a long drive from Saigon."
"Yes, it is."
The boy began to speak again but coughed, then gagged on some sputum. He coughed the sputum onto his chin. I untied the olive-drab bandana from around my neck and used it to wipe away the sputum.
The nurse heard the gagging and came to the bed. I said, "I have to go, Bobby. I'll be back soon." The boy, exhausted from coughing, nodded and closed his eyes.
As I walked away with the nurse I asked, "What's it look like?"
"Bad," she replied. "But he's in no pain."
Bobby Neal died shortly after I left, Jesse, and then I knew what peritonitis meant.
This next story ought to interest you because it's about a SEAL who was a collegiate swimmer. I understand that you were a pretty fair swimmer when you were a young man.
Mike Collins swam for the Naval Academy. They named the Coronado Amphibious Base pool for him after he got churched in the Delta near Ben Tre. I wasn't there, but your UDT 12 skipper was on the helo pad at Binh Thuy when they brought Mike in. He'd taken a lot of shrapnel in the face and head. Your old skipper - I'll call him Jake - told me about it one night around a camp fire in Baja where we'd gone to fish a Pacific estuary called estero coyote. We'd had a good day: we were eating fresh-caught flounder and washing it down with a little "Jack in the Bottle." Nobody around but us and the coyotes whining and snapping just beyond our fire as they searched for fish entrails we'd thrown them.
"Mike was one of my platoon leaders," Jake said. "He was going up river at night with his platoon on the way to an ambush site when the boat began taking fire from the banks. The boat cleared the kill zone without a scratch. But they decided, hey, lets go back and take those fuckers on. They'd no sooner reentered the kill zone when either a B40 rocket or rifle grenade struck and blasted shrapnel across the boat - killed or wounded every soul on board."
"I sent out a SEAL relief force in helos that managed to suppress the VC fire and medevac the dead and wounded. I was on the helo pad when they landed. Collins came off first and even though you could see he was dead - he was just drenched in blood from his head wounds - the docs tried to save him."
"They started pounding on his chest trying to get the pump started. They kept at it for at least 10 minutes. Mike's arms and legs were flopping around and I thought maybe he was alive after all. But the movement was just from all the pounding."
"Yet they saved a guy named DaCroce. I don't know how. Jesus, he looked awful. So much blood. He had so much blood on him you couldn't see the features of his face. The blood was just caked on - just crusted and caked."
In the fireglow I could see Jake was crying, not sobbing, but just quietly crying with the tears tracking down through the fish flakes caught in his four-day whiskers. Then he composed himself and we talked about something else while the coyotes began to yap, growl, and fight among themselves in the darkness.
Several years before Jake told me his story, I had attended a ceremony in Coronado, California, when the Navy named the Amphibious Base pool for Mike. I thought about the last time I was with him. We were chasing Southern snap through the bars of Phenix City, Alabama. Mike had just finished jump school at Fort Benning and I was a new Ranger eager to live my life in danger. We got along. We were jocks and we were SEALS.
I sat behind his mother at the pool dedication on that sun-filled day in Coronado. I heard her weeping for a son ten years dead. I concentrated on the 50 meter lanes stretching before us, imagining Mike powering into the far wall, exploding out of a flip turn, pulling hard toward us. Then all I saw was empty water.
So there it is, Jesse. Now it's your turn to inspire would-be warriors, those who would spare Bambi and be hunters like us, of the most dangerous game.
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http://cursor.org/stories/seal_or_udt.htm
A former Navy SEAL Commander asks:
Was Jesse a SEAL or a UDT Guy?
by Bill Salisbury
San Diego Reader
December 2, 1999
Shortly after the 1998 gubernatorial elections, everywhere you looked on TV he seemed to loom from the screen: that great domed head anchored by a linebacker's neck to a professional rassler's torso. And you heard him rattle off one-liners such as, "Sure I can be a good governor for Minnesota! It's not like I'll have to transplant kidneys!"
I first saw Jesse "the Body" Ventura before the election on Comedy Central's The Daily Show. A pert young woman was interviewing him at his horse farm near Minneapolis, asking what he thought, as a former Navy SEAL, about Demi Moore's going through training in G.I. Jane.
"Demi Moore," he replied in that now-famous buzz-saw voice, "has great breasts!"
Well, I thought, Jesse certainly looks and sounds like many SEALs I'd known during my 16 years in the Teams. But I'd never known or even heard of him. Was Jesse for real or was he one of those politicians who sometimes fudge their military affiliation with elite units? I mean, maybe he'd only worked on a staff or been aboard a ship that once participated in an exercise with SEALs.
But Jesse made a comment during the interview that somewhat eased my doubts about his bona fides. "SEALs," he said, "certainly are different. We don't wear skivvies."
Only a Team guy - SEAL or UDT - and those with whom he closely associated would know this verifiable truth. Skivvies - Navy lingo for underwear - were for lesser mortals such as pencil-necked sandcrabs (civilians) or black shoes (ship drivers). Real men didn't wear skivvies. But they did wear massive Rolex diving watches with Tudor movements, just as Jesse wore during his interview.
Jesse's reference to skivvies also suggested he had pulled liberty in Olongapo, aka Po Town: the legendary city in the Philippines that had offered fleshly delights to generations of sailors who passed through the U.S. Navy base at Subic Bay until the base closed a few years ago. Frogmen from underwater demolition teams - but not SEALs - enjoyed six-month deployments to the PI during the Vietnam War and were so prized among the Po Town bargirls that the girls would sometimes "do it for love." And the girls delighted in screaming "skivvie check!," which meant every man jack and mate in the bar would have to drop his pants to verify if he was or was not of UDT. The girls would often follow their skivvie checks with cries of "big watch, little dick, bumfuck UDT!"
The bargirls had no similar slogan for SEALs, who were rarely seen in Olongapo during the war. SEALs from Team One on the Strand and Team Two in Little Creek, Virginia, deployed to detachments (dets) in Vietnam: SEAL Team Two Det Alfa in Binh Thuy (terrorizing the VC and luckless peasants in the delta); SEAL Det Bravo in various places (doing dirty deeds for the CIA); SEAL Team One Det Da Nang (running mercs up north in Nastys); and SEAL Team One Det Golf in Nha Be (helping keep the Long Tau shipping channel more or less open from the South China Sea to Saigon).
I had firsthand knowledge of all these dets, some of which would periodically shift locations, but I was especially familiar with SEAL Team One Det Golf, where I served as officer-in-charge of three SEAL platoons for much of 1967. I also knew a lot about Det Alfa from SEAL Team Two, because I was the executive officer of that Team in 1970. Both SEAL Teams were awarded coveted Presidential Unit Citations. UDTs received none.
I didn't know much about UDTs 11 and 12 then, even though they were homeported on the Strand like SEAL Team One. The UDTs rotated their platoons through a headquarters in Subic Bay, where many of the frogmen relived high school glory days playing football on base and freeballing it through Po Town on liberty. The frogmen in Subic never once lost a sleepless second to the fear of mortar rounds in the perimeter or Charlie on the wire. So was Jesse a SEAL or merely a frogman, that is, a member of an underwater demolition team?
In search of an answer from the horse's mouth, I read Jesse's blockbuster autobiography, I Ain't Got Time to Bleed. The chapter on his Navy career from 1970 until 1974 is entitled: "Navy seals." References to SEALs saturate the 26-page chapter. Here's a sampling:
"[M]y brother, Jan,had joined the Navy SEALs a few years earlier." (p. 60)
"When [Navy recruiters] found out [I was] interested in joining the SEALs, they zeroed in: 'Don't you want to be part of the most elite? The best of the best?' " (p. 62)
"One day [in boot camp] we attended a presentation by the Navy seals they showed us a film called The Men with Green Faces. In Vietnam, the SEALs were known as the Greenfaces, because they wore camouflage green and black." (p. 64)
Jesse took a screening test at boot camp to qualify for what is called Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL (BUD/S) training conducted at the Amphib Base. Those who completed BUD/S, when Jesse was in training, were sent to either a SEAL or an underwater demolition team. Graduation did not, however, authorize the trainee to call himself a SEAL or a UDT frogman. He had to first successfully complete a six-month probationary period in the Teams.
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Lots more if you actually start digging.
That site is dedicated to collecting the info about Jesse and putting it out there for people to decide what they think.
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Again - Jessee is giving the money to the lawyers.
So really - what did he accomplish with this?
Nothing whatsoever but make himself look like utter garbage.
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So... I was digging around looking for the original site I had read about years ago but I can't find the link. There was plenty referencing it though. Heres a quick link...
http://cursor.org/venturawatch/dangerous_game.htm
Jesse's Dangerous Game
A former Navy SEAL commander questions Ventura's claim that he hunted man in Vietnam.
by Bill Salisbury
POSTED MAY 8, 2001--- MINNEAPOLIS-- A few weeks before the revelation that ex-Navy SEAL Bob Kerrey was involved in the death of civilians during the Vietnam War, Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura had ignited a controversy of his own by boasting in a confrontational interview with a Minneapolis Star Tribune columnist that he had "hunted man" as a Navy SEAL in Vietnam.
Resources:
April 5, 2001
Mpls Star Tribune
Transcript of "hunting man" interview
April 5, 2001
Mpls Star Tribune
Initial news story about interview
April 7, 2001
Mpls Star Tribune
Ventura apologizes to hunters
December 2, 1999
San Diego Reader
Jesse "The Great Pretender" Ventura
December 21, 1999
Cursor.org
Cursor researches Ventura's Navy SEAL quotes
HomeOfHeroes.com
Ribbon Awards of the U.S. Navy
How to publicly post a DD 214
US Navy
How to file a FOIA request with the U.S. Navy
UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam, by T.L. Bosiljevac
Navy SEAL Web site index
Navy SEALs Vietnam memorial page
Exposing fake Navy SEALs:
Night Scribe
Cyber Seals Wall of Shame
Cursor home
Initial press coverage focused on how Ventura's assertion that "until you hunted man, you haven't hunted yet," had riled many Minnesotans who hunt only non-human game. But more importantly, Ventura's claim invites a revisiting of long-standing questions about his military service, as it raises new ones about what the governor did, or didn't do, in Vietnam.
In December, 1999, I wrote an article for the San Diego Reader titled, "Jesse (The Great Pretender) Ventura." The article challenged Ventura's claim that as James Janos he'd been a SEAL in Vietnam. I wrote that Janos had not been a SEAL but merely a member of Underwater Demolition Team (UDT) 12 who had been stationed in the Philippines and not Vietnam.
The article relied on several interviews with real SEALS who had been in Nam and UDT men who had served with Janos. I also drew on my 16 years as a SEAL, that included a combat tour as officer-in-charge of SEAL Team 1, Detachment Golf, duty as executive officer of SEAL Team 2 during the war, and a stint as commanding officer of UDT 11 after the war.
Before going to press I asked Ventura's spokesman, John Wodele, for the governor's comment. "We will have no comment on something so obviously false," said Wodele in an indignant, imperial tone. (In fairness to Wodele, I didn't tell him of my own SEAL and UDT credentials, but left him to assume I was just some West Coast "jackal" whining and snapping at his boss's heels.)
Ventura continued to hide behind Wodele and his stone wall when I appeared on the Fox News Channel program "Hannity and Colmes" a few days after the Reader article appeared. When Fox asked Ventura to respond, Wodele wrote: "The only thing we have ever said is that the UDT and SEAL designation is interchangeable and we don't have any further comment."
Why would Ventura - who loves to run his mouth about having been a SEAL - suddenly clam up when I publicly stated in so many words that he was, as my grandma used to say, full of more crap than a Christmas turkey? The governor could have silenced me and his growing pack of critics by simply producing his discharge certificate from active duty, called a DD 214. If he'd been one of America's roughest, toughest, meanest mothers, then that document would list Then there's your UDT buddy, Gary 'Bones' Bonnelli, who says you weren't in Nam with him, but that you were floating around the South China Sea, on a ship with the Amphibious Ready Group -- making ports of call in such high-threat areas as Hong Kong, Singapore, and Bangkok.the qualification for all the world to see. And if the SEAL/UDT designation were truly interchangeable, the form would reflect that. But I know it doesn't without even looking at it. The UDT designation, or Navy Enlisted Classification (NEC) - was 5321/22 and the SEAL designation was 5326.
How do I know this? Because as the executive officer of SEAL Team 2, I recommended men for the 5326 designation after they had completed a six month probationary period. Many of these men came from UDTs as 5321/22s. As commanding officer of UDT 11, I awarded the 5321/22 designation to frogmen after their probationary period. Interchangeable designation my ass.
If Jesse were a SEAL, his DD 214 would also list at least one "Presidential Unit Citation for service Nam." How do I know this? Because of my duty with both SEAL Teams during the war. Every SEAL who served with Teams 1 and 2 received at least one DD 214 (NOT Jesse's)of the five Presidential Unit Citations awarded those units. UDTs received none. So c'mon, Jesse, show us your DD 214. You can even do that without breaking your vow never to talk about what you did as a "SEAL" in Nam.
But no fair relying on public pronouncements by your old toadies in the Teams, or a scrap of paper signed by some fawning Navy bureaucrat 30 years later, saying it's okay for you to call yourself a SEAL because UDTs were decommissioned in 1983. After all, you wouldn't want to be dismissed as a "Paper SEAL" would you? I mean it's okay for some pencil-necked sandcrab like George Plimpton to joke about being a "Paper Tiger" instead of a true major leaguer, but aren't you claiming to be the real deal: an ass-kicking, name-taking Navy SEAL?
Of course if you're unwilling to share your DD 214, then your pet jackals in the Twin Cities might want to fire off a Freedom of Information Act request to the Navy. Or they could request a copy of the UDT 12 Command History for the years you were with that team (1971- 1974). They could read the "History" to see if you got any ink for combat exploits. Hell. if you truly saw combat with Team 12 - faced Charley or Clyde at a given time in a given place with the burnt smell of expended rounds in the air - that would be good enough for me. I wouldn't quibble over whether you were a Frog or a SEAL and you could lay this controversy to rest - give it a double tap, an ear shot.
Another good resource is the Commander Naval Forces Vietnam monthly combat summaries that cover your time in the Western Pacific. Or the UDT 12 Cruise Book that chronicledCover of Jesse's UDT 12 Cruise Book your team's deployments. (SEALS didn't have time for such books.) You could even share your copy with them. One of your former commanding officers at UDT 12 shared his copy with me and said you'd never been in combat. Said he didn't remember you too well at all except as a guy who was good for morale because you had a great sense of humor. Your former CO was with me in Nam before he took over Team 12. He doesn't think the terms UDT and SEAL were interchangeable.
Then there's your UDT buddy, Gary "Bones" Bonnelli, who was one of a very few UDT 12 frogmen stationed in Nam, at a place near the Nam Can Forest called Solid Anchor. Bonnelli says you weren't in Nam with him, but that you were floating around the South China Sea on a ship with the Amphibious Ready Group, making ports of call in such high-threat areas as Hong Kong, Singapore, and Bangkok.
Another picture of James Janos, far leftAnd sure enough, when I read your old CO's Cruise Book I saw Bonnelli and others listed as having been in 'Nam, but all I found about you was that you'd played on the UDT 12 basketball team in the Philippines, at the naval station in Subic Bay.
Anyone wanting to avoid the hassle of prying documents from the Navy should get T.L. Bosiljevac's book, UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam, (Ivy, 1990.) Bosiljevac, a SEAL officer, reviewed command histories, cruise books, and monthly operational summaries to compile a chronological narrative of every UDT and SEAL combat action in Nam. The Navy-sponsored research was part of his master's thesis at the Naval Postgraduate School.
I've also learned from men who served with you in UDT 12 that you deployed to the Western Pacific (WESTPAC) during the war from February to October 1971. I checked UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam for that period and here's what I found. UDT 12 is mentioned only twice: "UDT 12 relieved UDT 13 in February as the WESTPAC - deployed underwater demolition team (page 155); "(A four-man SEAL detachment) spent 8 August to 22 September with UDT 12 aboard the USS Grayback to assist in training (page 160)." As you know, the Grayback was a submarine that operated out of Subic Bay.
While you were in WESTPAC as a frogman, here's a sampling of what SEALS were up to in Nam:
Raided a VC financial meeting on 9 February, killing four guerrillas and capturing four others.
Conducted a daylight helo raid on 13 February, killing three VC and destroying a twenty-man rest area.
Attacked an enemy base on 20 February, killing one Chinese propaganda officer and wounding five others.
Killed eight VC and captured numerous weapons on 24 February.
Killed five VC and captured five others on 7 March.
Killed two VC and captured three others along with a VC flag and kilo of documents on 15 March.
Killed 3 VC aboard four sampans on 12 May.
Killed five VC attending a political meeting on 7 July.
Killed 8 VC in hand-to-hand combat on 23 August.
Killed 2 VC guarding a weapons cache on 28 August.
SEALs interchangeable with UDTs? I think not.
But SEALS didn't always win the manhunting contests while you were shooting hoops in the Philippines and pulling liberty in Hong Kong: a SEAL squad transiting the Ham Luong Canal on 28 February took heavy casualties when a B-40 rocket slammed into their boat; Lieutenant Michael Collins of SEAL Team 1 died on 4 March after suffering multiple fragmentation wounds from a VC ambush (more about Mike later); Petty Officer Lester Moe of SEAL Team 1 was killed walking point on 19 March when he stepped on a "Bouncing Betty" mine. And so it went Jesse, for SEALS but not frogmen during your deployment.
Of course maybe Bosiljevac somehow missed your manhunting ops. Tell you what - as one old SEAL/UDT manhunter to another - let's share a war story or Bosiljevac's Booktwo and give those who dream of being warriors a glimpse of the glamour.
Here are two "no shitters"- as your fellow celeb "Demo" Dick Marcinko might put it - that have stayed with me for a long time.
Many SEALS like to talk about the first man they killed. I sometimes do that. He was a VC courier sliding along the Upper Dong Tam River in a sampan beneath overhanging branches to avoid detection from the air. I brain-shot him with a CAR 15 - a weapon that looks like a toy. I was close enough to see blood and bone spray when the round struck.
But I usually don't talk about the first man I killed, Jesse. I usually talk about the first man I watched die. His name was Bobby Neal and he worked for me when I ran three SEAL platoons out of Nha Be 30 miles below Saigon on the border of a 500-square mile swamp called the Rung Sat. Neal took a lot longer to die than the courier. Neal was 18 when he got hit: he'd enlisted at 17 on what you may remember the Navy called a "kiddie cruise."
A Chicom grenade that exploded in the well-deck of a Mike boat perforated Neal's stomach lining. After the dustoff helo took him to Binh Hoa, I thought he would make it. I continued to think so until my third visit. On that visit I saw that they'd moved him away from the other wounded in the Quonset hut to a small room behind a partition. He was alone in the room except for a nurse. As I approached Neal's bed the nurse cautioned me that he was very weak. "He's a guarded case," she whispered, "he has peritonitis."
At the time I didn't know what peritonitis meant, Jesse, even though I was 26 - which was getting up there for a manhunter in that war or perhaps in any war.
I've run the Neal movie through my brain so often that the setting and dialogue remain as clear now as on the day I stood by his bed, looking at his pale, slender body covered from the waist down by a sheet. Neal's eyes were closed, his head turned so that I could see the crescent on his scalp where they had shaved his thick black hair to get at the shrapnel. His arm stretched out to receive the trickle of clear fluid coming through a tube from a bottle above the bed.
"Neal," I said softly, "Neal."
He opened his eyes and turned his head toward me. His eyes were dark and seemed too large for his face, like the eyes of a child in a Betanzos painting.
"Oh, what? Oh, I thought you were someone else."
"It's me. How you feeling?"
"Not bad, sir. But I can't move. I mean I got so many tubes in me that all I can move is this arm and my head. Used to have a tube up my nose and couldn't even move my head then."
With his free hand he grasped the sheet covering him and pulled it farther down. "See all those tubes?," he asked. A T-shaped bandage stretched across the boy's stomach and down his groin; two plastic tubes extended from beneath the bandage to a pair of bottles placed on a low table next to the bed.
"Well, those tubes are so I can shit and piss, see. Then there's another tube beneath the bandage to drain pus outa my gut. They change the bandage a lot and Christ does it stink. Like something rotten."
The boy began to breathe heavily as if unused to the effort of so much talking.
I said, "You look good, Bobby. Just take it easy. Don't talk so much if it's a strain."
"Oh no, no. I like to talk."
"I brought you some letters. I'll put them on the table and you can read them later, or have the nurse read them to you."
"Thank you, sir. Who are they from?"
"Two are from your parents."
"My parents?"
"Yes, from Virginia."
"Oh, there must be some mistake, sir. You see my parents are in Saigon. My mother visits me every day."
"I see. How are your parents?"
"Very fine, sir. Except my mom doesn't like being so far away from me. It's a long drive from Saigon."
"Yes, it is."
The boy began to speak again but coughed, then gagged on some sputum. He coughed the sputum onto his chin. I untied the olive-drab bandana from around my neck and used it to wipe away the sputum.
The nurse heard the gagging and came to the bed. I said, "I have to go, Bobby. I'll be back soon." The boy, exhausted from coughing, nodded and closed his eyes.
As I walked away with the nurse I asked, "What's it look like?"
"Bad," she replied. "But he's in no pain."
Bobby Neal died shortly after I left, Jesse, and then I knew what peritonitis meant.
This next story ought to interest you because it's about a SEAL who was a collegiate swimmer. I understand that you were a pretty fair swimmer when you were a young man.
Mike Collins swam for the Naval Academy. They named the Coronado Amphibious Base pool for him after he got churched in the Delta near Ben Tre. I wasn't there, but your UDT 12 skipper was on the helo pad at Binh Thuy when they brought Mike in. He'd taken a lot of shrapnel in the face and head. Your old skipper - I'll call him Jake - told me about it one night around a camp fire in Baja where we'd gone to fish a Pacific estuary called estero coyote. We'd had a good day: we were eating fresh-caught flounder and washing it down with a little "Jack in the Bottle." Nobody around but us and the coyotes whining and snapping just beyond our fire as they searched for fish entrails we'd thrown them.
"Mike was one of my platoon leaders," Jake said. "He was going up river at night with his platoon on the way to an ambush site when the boat began taking fire from the banks. The boat cleared the kill zone without a scratch. But they decided, hey, lets go back and take those fuckers on. They'd no sooner reentered the kill zone when either a B40 rocket or rifle grenade struck and blasted shrapnel across the boat - killed or wounded every soul on board."
"I sent out a SEAL relief force in helos that managed to suppress the VC fire and medevac the dead and wounded. I was on the helo pad when they landed. Collins came off first and even though you could see he was dead - he was just drenched in blood from his head wounds - the docs tried to save him."
"They started pounding on his chest trying to get the pump started. They kept at it for at least 10 minutes. Mike's arms and legs were flopping around and I thought maybe he was alive after all. But the movement was just from all the pounding."
"Yet they saved a guy named DaCroce. I don't know how. Jesus, he looked awful. So much blood. He had so much blood on him you couldn't see the features of his face. The blood was just caked on - just crusted and caked."
In the fireglow I could see Jake was crying, not sobbing, but just quietly crying with the tears tracking down through the fish flakes caught in his four-day whiskers. Then he composed himself and we talked about something else while the coyotes began to yap, growl, and fight among themselves in the darkness.
Several years before Jake told me his story, I had attended a ceremony in Coronado, California, when the Navy named the Amphibious Base pool for Mike. I thought about the last time I was with him. We were chasing Southern snap through the bars of Phenix City, Alabama. Mike had just finished jump school at Fort Benning and I was a new Ranger eager to live my life in danger. We got along. We were jocks and we were SEALS.
I sat behind his mother at the pool dedication on that sun-filled day in Coronado. I heard her weeping for a son ten years dead. I concentrated on the 50 meter lanes stretching before us, imagining Mike powering into the far wall, exploding out of a flip turn, pulling hard toward us. Then all I saw was empty water.
So there it is, Jesse. Now it's your turn to inspire would-be warriors, those who would spare Bambi and be hunters like us, of the most dangerous game.
He never claimed to have fought in Vietnam though. His remark was to the effect that hunting is somewhat of a joke (which it is for the most part in the civilized world).
http://borderzine.com/2013/03/jesse-ventura-%E2%80%93-a-one-of-a-kind-all-american/
Never one to avoid controversy, he was criticized by hunters and conservationists for stating in an interview with the Minneapolis Star Tribune in April 2001, “Until you have hunted men, you haven’t hunted yet.” In January 2002, Ventura, who, previously, had never specifically claimed to have fought in Vietnam, disclosed for the first time that he did not see combat. However, Ventura, who was stationed at Subic Bay in the Philippines, was awarded the Vietnam Service Medal, which was given to military personnel who took part in the contributions to the war effort in Vietnam.
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Go read the site Adonis, theres plenty of links and references to where he talked about being in combat missions in Vietnam. I'm not going to dig them up for you.
Heres a quick few from the 1st link I saw -
Navy SEAL, union member, volunteer high school football coach, outdoorsman, husband of 23 years, father of two.
Ventura Campaign Ad
I'm a warrior at heart. I'm an ex-Navy SEAL.
The New York Times, October 31, 1998
And Mr. [Hulk] Hogan, I mean he wants to be me, anyway. He always--you know, he pretends to be a Navy SEAL; I was one.
Meet the Press, November 8, 1998
You know, I come from a little bit of a military background earlier in my life and we were always taught in the Navy SEAL team never to assume.
CNN Inside Politics, November 12, 1998
High Times: Was your wrestling career fun?
Ventura: It was exciting. And for me, an ex-Navy Seal, it was fun.
High Times, November, 1998
Ventura: I've been a Navy SEAL.
Maria Shriver: But, a Navy SEAL makes you ready to be Governor?
Ventura: Uh-huh. Yeah. Sure it does.
Maria Shriver: Where did you come up with that?
Ventura: It's easy--because I defy--because I worked with things in being a Navy SEAL that could kill me.
NBC Dateline, December 22, 1998
I'm also excited--you know, a lot of my old Navy SEAL buddies are here to see me get sworn in today.
CBS This Morning, January 4, 1999
I'm the top law enforcement officer in the state of Minnesota. I'm also the commander-in-chief of the National Guard. I'm an ex-Navy SEAL team member.
Meet The Press, February 21, 1999
Now as a Navy SEAL, I thought "How did they know that about me -- how dangerous we truly can be?" We have a saying in the SEALs: we don't get mad, we get even.
National Press Club Speech, February 22, 1999
I'm the head of the state troopers, and the commander-in-chief of the National Guard. I'm also a former Navy SEAL.
CNN Late Edition, February 23, 1999
Tim Russert: Both your brother--your older brother and yourself, [were] Navy SEALs?
Ventura: Mm-hmm, yeah.
Tim Russert: You almost died twice, once as a Navy SEAL and once as a wrestler, with blood clots in your lungs.
Ventura: Well, I almost died more than that a couple times as a SEAL. That's only what I told about in the book.
Tim Russert Show, May 22, 1999
Last spring I rappelled down from the top of the Target Center before a Timberwolves game. But, you know, I am an ex-Navy SEAL and I was trained for you know, a full year and was very comfortable in that type of rappelling-type thing.
Larry King Live, May 24, 1999
I couldn't care less what a person's sexual orientation is, and I'm an ex-Navy SEAL.
The Advocate, May 1999
First of all, they should understand why a Navy SEAL doesn't wear underwear.
CBS This Morning , June 3, 1999
Larry King: You were a Navy SEAL?
Ventura: Yes.
Larry King: What was that like?
Ventura: Exciting. I did it at 18 years old to 22, 22-1/2. It was challenging. I would belong to no other unit The camaraderie is unbelievable.
Larry King Live, June 3, 1999
When I was a wrestler, I could pick up buildings. When I was a SEAL, I could scale them.
NPR's Fresh Air, June 3, 1999
Chris Matthews: When you were a--you were a SEAL, you must have been through amazingly scary moments with life and death.
Ventura: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Hardball with Chris Matthews at Harvard University, October 6, 1999
You're talking to an ex-Navy Seal here.
Playboy, November, 1999.
I was in the SEALs during the Vietnam War, so I experienced firsthand how we, as Americans, were affected by that conflict.
Rolling Stone, December 30, 1999
We're a proud organization. If anyone tries to pretend they're a SEAL, God help them.
Jesse Ventura Autobiography: I Ain't Got Time to Bleed
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Brandon Webb nailed it on this matter. Look him up TA.
Ventura is a slug and handled this horribly.
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Brandon Webb nailed it on this matter. Look him up TA.
Ventura is a slug and handled this horribly.
Brandon Webb also says that Chris Kyle told him that he shot and killed 30 American Citizens while posted up at the Superdome during Hurricane Katrina.
So theres that. :-\
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didn't webb say ventura was a seal
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My issue is how jessee went about this.
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My issue is how jessee went about this.
you can't multi-task? one hand on the computer and the other around your dick? how do you manage an orgasm?
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Not changing my overall opinion based on facts that do nothing to alter the core facts of this whole situation? Imagine that. ::) I appreciate the information about whether insurance was involved. I was curious about that, but not because it changes whether or not Ventura should have sued this widow.
I didn't care about the source. I read liberal and conservative sources pretty much every day. As an aside, people who live on the Daily Kos, watch nothing but MSNBC, only rely on Huffington Post, etc. tend to have a warped world view.
Yes, being a "world class douchebag" is a special insult. I use the word "douchebag" sparingly. Not sure I've ever used "world class douchebag"? If I have, I don't remember. But it certainly applies to Ventura.
Pardon me, but I'm pretty sure that whether or not the court's judgement was going to potentially be taking away money from the families of fallen servicemen IS a core fact for many. For me, it's the only reasonable fact on which to base whether Ventura was morally doing the right thing by suing the Kyles estate.
Makes me wonder WHY you think Ventura is doing something inappropriate here but I have the feeling that if you tried to honestly answer that we'd probably just get to hear more of your military-worship BS. You'd recite some variation of Jack Nicholson's line from A Few Good Men by saying "All you did today was weaken a country, Ventura". LOL
BTW, I won't ask you exactly HOW the word "douchebag" is special (lol) to you (other than how frequently you use it) but I am wondering if you realize that you're implying that you feel that the other insults, the ones you use not-so-sparingly, shouldn't be taken seriously because you don't really feel they're genuinely called for. ("Oh, I don't say "douchebag" all the time so you can take that to heart but all these other insults?---- Naw, I say that shit all the time so don't worry about it cuz I'm not being serious.")
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Pardon me, but I'm pretty sure that whether or not the court's judgement was going to potentially be taking away money from the families of fallen servicemen IS a core fact for many. For me, it's the only reasonable fact on which to base whether Ventura was morally doing the right thing by suing the Kyles estate.
Makes me wonder WHY you think Ventura is doing something inappropriate here but I have the feeling that if you tried to honestly answer that we'd probably just get to hear more of your military-worship BS. You'd recite some variation of Jack Nicholson's line from A Few Good Men by saying "All you did today was weaken a country, Ventura". LOL
BTW, I won't ask you exactly HOW the word "douchebag" is special (lol) to you (other than how frequently you use it) but I am wondering if you realize that you're implying that you feel that the other insults, the ones you use not-so-sparingly, shouldn't be taken seriously because you don't really feel they're genuinely called for. ("Oh, I don't say "douchebag" all the time so you can take that to heart but all these other insults?---- Naw, I say that shit all the time so don't worry about it cuz I'm not being serious.")
I stated pretty clearly why he shouldn't have done this, multiple times in this thread. Does not surprise me one bit that it flew right over your head.
You're entitled to your opinion.
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I stated pretty clearly why he shouldn't have done this, multiple times in this thread.
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Sure, but you know a lot more about the case now though, don't you?
And, having good reason to think you know much more now, isn't it intellectually dishonest of you to not state your reasons but to simply say "I've already said why he shouldn't have done this" which indicates that you're sticking by your reasons even though many of those reasons have since been shown to be based on inaccurate info?
I mean, c'mon, why come off as a lyin' POS by not at least acknowledging that some of reasons you cited earlier are invalid?
OK, then. If you won't say why you think Jesse was wrong, I WILL look through the thread for your reasons:
I doubt he has lost anything as a result of the allegations made against him. It sounds like he just wants money. And now it will come at the expense of a widow and her kids.
The court ruled that Ventura DID lose money as a result of the Kyles' lies and that "poor" widow will still be a millionaire many times over even if she has to pay the entire 1.8 million dollar judgement herself.
American Sniper became a major success, hitting No. 1 on the New York Times bestsellers' list where it remained for seven weeks.
Kyle took none of the royalties from the book, according to his publisher, William Morrow, and DeFelice.
DeFelice said Kyle donated his royalties to the families of two Navy Seals, Marc Lee and Ryan Job, who fought alongside him in a 2006 battle that led to their deaths.
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No, he shouldn't try and take money away from the families of veterans who gave their lives serving their country, over a few paragraphs in a book.
The quote from his publisher that you seemed to think was credible is actually pretty fantastic (as in unbelievable). He seems to be saying that all the millions of dollars in royalties were split solely between the 2 families of 2 Navy Seals who died service-related deaths. Believing this uncritically doesn't quite rise to the level of Coach believing stories from The Onion are true but it's not far different. Kyles' publisher if not Kyles himself must think that there are an awful lot of gullible suckers out there.
Turns out that not only was Ventura not taking money away from the families of veterans but, because it came out in court that the Kyles estate had only been willing to donate 2% of the royalties, you can't even say that Ventura was TRYING to take money away from the families of veterans.
If this survives on appeal, I wonder if Ventura will try and collect from the guy's family? Ventura is such a whiney dirtbag for doing this. I have really lost respect for the guy.
Disrespect Ventura and think he's a whiny dirtbag all ya want. But not because he's gonna send some widow to the poorhouse. She'd still be a multi-millionaire even if she had to pay double the court's judgement against her.
And all of the money from the book proceeds went to the families of two deceased service members.
Good job Jesse. ::)
LOL. Man, you're right! You DID say why you think Ventura was in the wrong quite a few times. Good job, Beach Bum. lol
And to try and take money from deceased service members just shows how far he has fallen. If this was really about clearing his "good" name, he should not try and collect the award.
Yeah, you're right. These reasons just sailed right over my head. LOL
He also became a 911 Troofer, which puts him in the class with all those tinfoil hat dummies.
This one I agree with and although it DOES prejudice me against trusting Ventura's judgement in general, it doesn't at all mean that I'm gonna ignore facts when evaluating the appropriateness of his conduct with regard to specific issues that hav nothing to do with his CT beliefs.
How did he cash in if all of the net proceeds went to the families of service members killed in action?
He (Kyles) cashed in because all of the net proceeds DID NOT go to the families of service members killed in action. Only $52,000 went to those families. The rest of the 3 to 6 million dollars stayed with the Kyles family.
She isn't profiting, because the book proceeds are going to the families of two service members who were KIA.
And this is a few paragraphs in a book. Hardly the reason why the book made money.
Man, how many times have you repeated the falsehood that Kyles' widow isn't profiting from the book? Say some Hail Marys or some freakin' thing, at least. lol
Also, some folks a lot more informed than you (including the book's own publisher) have said that the story Kyles told about fighting Ventura during promotional appearances did considerably help sales. The court agreed, too. But you just go ahead continue to maintain that you know better, lol.
It makes sense to me that the publisher would pay, but I haven't read or heard that they are in this case.
Nobody cared about those paragraphs in that book.
And again, she didn't profit from the book.
BTW, from what I've read, Jesse may go after the publisher separately. If I run across a link supporting this, I'll post it.
(Needless to say, your 2nd and 3rd sentences are bullshit.)
So, since we now know that Ventura has very good reason to believe that Kyles made a lot of money off of the false fight story and given that Kyles' widow isn't being bankrupted in the slightest by the lawsuit, doesn't it make a little more sense to you why I'd ask about your reasons for continuing to maintain that the lawsuit brought by Ventura is wrong?
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Sure, but you know a lot more about the case now though, don't you?
And, having good reason to think you know much more now, isn't it intellectually dishonest of you to not state your reasons but to simply say "I've already said why he shouldn't have done this" which indicates that you're sticking by your reasons even though many of those reasons have since been shown to be based on inaccurate info?
I mean, c'mon, why come off as a lyin' POS by not at least acknowledging that some of reasons you cited earlier are invalid?
OK, then. If you won't say why you think Jesse was wrong, I WILL look through the thread for your reasons:
The court ruled that Ventura DID lose money as a result of the Kyles' lies and that "poor" widow will still be a millionaire many times over even if she has to pay the entire 1.8 million dollar judgement herself.
The quote from his publisher that you seemed to think was credible is actually pretty fantastic (as in unbelievable). He seems to be saying that all the millions of dollars in royalties were split solely between the 2 families of 2 Navy Seals who died service-related deaths. Believing this uncritically doesn't quite rise to the level of Coach believing stories from The Onion are true but it's not far different. Kyles' publisher if not Kyles himself must think that there are an awful lot of gullible suckers out there.
Turns out that not only was Ventura not taking money away from the families of veterans but, because it came out in court that the Kyles estate had only been willing to donate 2% of the royalties, you can't even say that Ventura was TRYING to take money away from the families of veterans.
Disrespect Ventura and think he's a whiny dirtbag all ya want. But not because he's gonna send some widow to the poorhouse. She'd still be a multi-millionaire even if she had to pay double the court's judgement against her.
LOL. Man, you're right! You DID say why you think Ventura was in the wrong quite a few times. Good job, Beach Bum. lol
Yeah, you're right. These reasons just sailed right over my head. LOL
This one I agree with and although it DOES prejudice me against trusting Ventura's judgement in general, it doesn't at all mean that I'm gonna ignore facts when evaluating the appropriateness of his conduct with regard to specific issues that hav nothing to do with his CT beliefs.
He (Kyles) cashed in because all of the net proceeds DID NOT go to the families of service members killed in action. Only $52,000 went to those families. The rest of the 3 to 6 million dollars stayed with the Kyles family.
Man, how many times have you repeated the falsehood that Kyles' widow isn't profiting from the book? Say some Hail Marys or some freakin' thing, at least. lol
Also, some folks a lot more informed than you (including the book's own publisher) have said that the story Kyles told about fighting Ventura during promotional appearances did considerably help sales. The court agreed, too. But you just go ahead continue to maintain that you know better, lol.
BTW, from what I've read, Jesse may go after the publisher separately. If I run across a link supporting this, I'll post it.
(Needless to say, your 2nd and 3rd sentences are bullshit.)
So, since we now know that Ventura has very good reason to believe that Kyles made a lot of money off of the false fight story and given that Kyles' widow isn't being bankrupted in the slightest by the lawsuit, doesn't it make a little more sense to you why I'd ask about your reasons for continuing to maintain that the lawsuit brought by Ventura is wrong?
I only skimmed this, but why the heck to you repost select quotes from the same stupid thread?? ::) Go back and read all of my comments. I ain't reading this crap. lol
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I only skimmed this, but why the heck to you repost select quotes from the same stupid thread?? ::) Go back and read all of my comments. I ain't reading this crap. lol
I did read all of your comments.
I did that to try to figure out why you're taking the position that Ventura was acting inappropriately by suing the Kyles estate. I asked you this question directly a couple of posts ago and you told me that you'd already stated it clearly in this thread.
And you were right...Except that your 2 main reasons were based on what you should now know is inaccurate info. (And yet somehow your reasons and opinion both are unchanged, lol.)
I tried to prove that by posting all your quotes that seem to indicate this. That's all.
I don't expect you to acknowledge your errors (amusingly, that's just not how you roll) but everyone else reading will see what you're doing. Even, I think, folks like Shockwave who also think what Ventura did was wrong. And that's enough for me.
You have a good day, mang.
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I did read all of your comments.
I did that to try to figure out why you're taking the position that Ventura was acting inappropriately by suing the Kyles estate. I asked you this question directly a couple of posts ago and you told me that you'd already stated it clearly in this thread.
And you were right...Except that your 2 main reasons were based on what you should now know is inaccurate info. (And yet somehow your reasons and opinion both are unchanged, lol.)
I tried to prove that by posting all your quotes that seem to indicate this. That's all.
I don't expect you to acknowledge your errors (amusingly, that's just not how you roll) but everyone else reading will see what you're doing. Even, I think, folks like Shockwave who also think what Ventura did was wrong. And that's enough for me.
You have a good day, mang.
Actually, what you did was selectively quote me in the same friggin thread. ::) But I honestly don't care what you think. I am comfortable with my opinion. You are entitled to your own. I will be having a wonderful day sheltering in place. :)
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Actually, what you did was selectively quote me in the same friggin thread. ::) But I honestly don't care what you think. I am comfortable with my opinion. You are entitled to your own. I will be having a wonderful day sheltering in place. :)
What's wrong with selectively quoting you? -- My post was way too long anyway, wasn't it? lol
Fair enough about having different opinions. I guess the reason for your opinion will always be a mystery to me but that's really no big deal. (I've made it seem like a much bigger deal than it is, for sure, lol.)
Out of curiosity, what does "sheltering in place" mean? I haven't heard that phrase before, I don't think.
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What's wrong with selectively quoting you? -- My post was way too long anyway, wasn't it? lol
Fair enough about having different opinions. I guess the reason for your opinion will always be a mystery to me but that's really no big deal. (I've made it seem like a much bigger deal than it is, for sure, lol.)
Out of curiosity, what does "sheltering in place" mean? I haven't heard that phrase before, I don't think.
Selectively quoting someone to try and prove a point is dishonest, when other quotes provide the full context and additional information.
Sheltering in place essentially means staying home (or wherever you happen to be). We have back-to-back hurricanes/tropical storms rolling through, so the entire state is shut down for the next few days. But I did get my run in before the rain started. :)
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Selectively quoting someone to try and prove a point is dishonest, when other quotes provide the full context and additional information.
Sheltering in place essentially means staying home (or wherever you happen to be). We have back-to-back hurricanes/tropical storms rolling through, so the entire state is shut down for the next few days. But I did get my run in before the rain started. :)
I agree with you about selective quoting in general but not in this case. I was only trying to point out how often you'd brought up 3 (bogus) reasons for being anti-Ventura: 1. Lawsuit would put widow in the poorhouse, 2. Fight story didn't help book sales, and 3. All royalties were going to charity so a monetary judgement would take money from dead servicemen's families.
"Sheltering in place" seems a pretty useful phrase for folks that have to deal with monsoons and scary shit like that. (My wife's family lives in one of the houses on stilts in Nakhon Si Thammarat, Thailand where they get brutal rainstorms and, due to flooding, they have to use a boat to get from the house to the main road for a couple of months most years.)
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I agree with you about selective quoting in general but not in this case. I was only trying to point out how often you'd brought up 3 (bogus) reasons for being anti-Ventura: 1. Lawsuit would put widow in the poorhouse, 2. Fight story didn't help book sales, and 3. All royalties were going to charity so a monetary judgement would take money from dead servicemen's families.
"Sheltering in place" seems a pretty useful phrase for folks that have to deal with monsoons and scary shit like that. (My wife's family lives in one of the houses on stilts in Nakhon Si Thammarat, Thailand where they get brutal rainstorms and, due to flooding, they have to use a boat to get from the house to the main road for a couple of months most years.)
I mentioned several things about Ventura, including him acting like a butt-hurt sissy, the classless nature of pursuing a widow--much less the widow of an American patriot, the book proceeds being paid to family members as reported in the article I posted, and the fact this was only a few paragraphs in a book that didn't even name him. The article you posted contradicted the article I posted on the issue of where the book proceeds were going. Big friggin deal. Whether all or a portion of the proceeds are going to two other families of fallen service members or just to the family of this particular service member, Ventura is still trying to take money from the family of a deceased service member. Kyles' wife and kids have lost decades of earned income with the death of their husband and father. Ventura is a world class douchebag. But my views on this are stated in this thread (and not just in the portions you selectively quoted).
We have houses essentially on stilts too. I passed a guy yesterday who was erecting a rock wall in front of his house. A little late in the game. Also, people act a fool whenever we have hurricane or tsunami threats. Hoarding. Price gouging. Gas lines.
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I mentioned several things about Ventura, including him acting like a butt-hurt sissy, the classless nature of pursuing a widow--much less the widow of an American patriot, the book proceeds being paid to family members as reported in the article I posted, and the fact this was only a few paragraphs in a book that didn't even name him. The article you posted contradicted the article I posted on the issue of where the book proceeds were going. Big friggin deal. Whether all or a portion of the proceeds are going to two other families of fallen service members or just to the family of this particular service member, Ventura is still trying to take money from the family of a deceased service member. Kyles' wife and kids have lost decades of earned income with the death of their husband and father. Ventura is a world class douchebag. But my views on this are stated in this thread (and not just in the portions you selectively quoted).
We have houses essentially on stilts too. I passed a guy yesterday who was erecting a rock wall in front of his house. A little late in the game. Also, people act a fool whenever we have hurricane or tsunami threats. Hoarding. Price gouging. Gas lines.
What I find most intriguing is that members of the SEAL community (like Ventura was so quick to always throw in with) don't do this kind of shit to each other. It's interesting that he was so quick to go after the same community that he tried to say he was so upset from being made to look bad in...
Thats what makes me scratch my head... he had to have known that the SEAL community would just completely turn their back on him when he went after Kyle, his estate, or his family (however you want to look at it). If he cared so much about them and respected them like they do each other he never would have done this.. he would have gone TO the SEAL community and tried to repair the breach, not make it 100x worse. And it also leads credence to the rumor that he's ran himself into the ground, and is hurting for money because he's basically fucked up every bridge he's ever had.
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What I find most intriguing is that members of the SEAL community (like Ventura was so quick to always throw in with) don't do this kind of shit to each other. It's interesting that he was so quick to go after the same community that he tried to say he was so upset from being made to look bad in...
Thats what makes me scratch my head... he had to have known that the SEAL community would just completely turn their back on him when he went after Kyle, his estate, or his family (however you want to look at it). If he cared so much about them and respected them like they do each other he never would have done this.. he would have gone TO the SEAL community and tried to repair the breach, not make it 100x worse. And it also leads credence to the rumor that he's ran himself into the ground, and is hurting for money because he's basically fucked up every bridge he's ever had.
The idiot Ventura listened to his lawyer stupidly - and now all the $ is going to lawyer bills . Ventura not getting spit $ wise and his rep is garbage now
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Jesse had every right to defend his character.
Doesn't change the fact that Jesse is a liar too. Just probably not in this instance.
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Jesse had every right to defend his character.
Doesn't change the fact that Jesse is a liar too. Just probably not in this instance.
Just bc he had a right to sue does not make it the smartest thing to have done overall in terms as evidenced how it all panned out.
He won the court battle but lost overall, big time.
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Jesse had every right to defend his character.
Doesn't change the fact that Jesse is a liar too. Just probably not in this instance.
Yeah but the way he did it didn't really defend his character at all, and especially not in the SEAL community he was so concerned about. It accomplished nothing but excommunicating him further. And as I said before, everyone that thought he was a liar still thinks he was a liar, now just more people think he's an asshole and he basically killed any chance he had at reconciling with the SEALs.
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He didn't "lose" jack shit. It isn't like he is majorly and richly capitalizing on his name and fame anymore. He lime light days are behind him. Doesn't matter if his name is tarnished at this point.
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Yeah but the way he did it didn't really defend his character at all, and especially not in the SEAL community he was so concerned about. It accomplished nothing but excommunicating him further. And as I said before, everyone that thought he was a liar still thinks he was a liar, now just more people think he's an asshole and he basically killed any chance he had at reconciling with the SEALs.
I know one guy who is a SEAL who is friends w Lutrell and those guys. They despise Ventura for what and how he went about this.
There is a certain way to do things and not do them. Ventura went about it the worst possible way imaginable.
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He didn't "lose" jack shit. It isn't like he is majorly and richly capitalizing on his name and fame anymore. He lime light days are behind him. Doesn't matter if his name is tarnished at this point.
He said the most important thing to him was his standing in the SEAL community - how did that work out for him?
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He said the most important thing to him was his standing in the SEAL community - how did that work out for him?
Seeing how he appears to have lied about being a SEAL in the first place, I can say he is probably still sleeping about the same each night no matter what the real guys think.
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Yeah but the way he did it didn't really defend his character at all, and especially not in the SEAL community he was so concerned about. It accomplished nothing but excommunicating him further. And as I said before, everyone that thought he was a liar still thinks he was a liar, now just more people think he's an asshole and he basically killed any chance he had at reconciling with the SEALs.
whats ventura care I thought you said he wasn't a seal :o
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whats ventura care I thought you said he wasn't a seal :o
He wasnt. UDT was a separate entity until they ceased to exist and everyone that went to BUD/s simple went through the extra training and became SEALs after 83. Both groups are part of the same community, but UDT was very different than SEALs.
Jesse used to speak at graduations and attend regular SEAL events as he was a psuedo celebrity and was grandfathered into the community since UDT ceased to exist anf everyone that graduated BUD/s just went through the extra training and became SEALs, but that didnt mean that Ventura was ever a SEAL.
Especially when he claimed to have been a SEAL during vietnam and he never was on a SEAL team.
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He said the most important thing to him was his standing in the SEAL community - how did that work out for him?
ROFLAMO
"Da SEAL Camoonity", "Da SEAL Camoonity".
What is it made of, like 37 people wearing hats with pins on them and 42 more teaching GoRucks.
I think Jesse will be allright without Da Camoonity. lololol
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ROFLAMO
"Da SEAL Camoonity", "Da SEAL Camoonity".
What is it made of, like 37 people wearing hats with pins on them and 42 more teaching GoRucks.
I think Jesse will be allright without Da Camoonity. lololol
Its more important to people than you could possibly understand man, and the network is much larger and widesoread than you could ever fathom. They're in every level, from government to military to the private sector.. Those guys generally live for the respect of their peers. Theyre network opens doors for each other at the highest levels...., they live for each other.
Thats what made me scratch my head... as important as he claimed it to be to him, why do the one thing that would basically cut him out forever?
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ROFLAMO
"Da SEAL Camoonity", "Da SEAL Camoonity".
What is it made of, like 37 people wearing hats with pins on them and 42 more teaching GoRucks.
I think Jesse will be allright without Da Camoonity. lololol
you are clueless
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Its more important to people than you could possibly understand man, and the network is much larger and widesoread than you could ever fathom. They're in every level, from government to military to the private sector.. Those guys generally live for the respect of their peers. Theyre network opens doors for each other at the highest levels...., they live for each other.
Thats what made me scratch my head... as important as he claimed it to be to him, why do the one thing that would basically cut him out forever?
Because Ventura 2016.
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Its more important to people than you could possibly understand man, and the network is much larger and widesoread than you could ever fathom. They're in every level, from government to military to the private sector.. Those guys generally live for the respect of their peers. Theyre network opens doors for each other at the highest levels...., they live for each other.
Thats what made me scratch my head... as important as he claimed it to be to him, why do the one thing that would basically cut him out forever?
Greed
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Because Ventura 2016.
Haha, fair enough.
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Good interview - never knw this stuff
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Good interview - never knw this stuff
Didnt watch. Cliffs?
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Didnt watch. Cliffs?
Don Shipley interviews Jesse's brother who was a SEAL about the early classes and what went on, etc etc. Their dad was a WW2 Vet and decorated vet.
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Don Shipley interviews Jesse's brother who was a SEAL about the early classes and what went on, etc etc. Their dad was a WW2 Vet and decorated vet.
Yeah, his brother was a SEAL but Jesse wasnt, jesse got placed in a UDT team and didnt volunteer to go over. Much safer than being a SEAL in those days. Still dangerous though.
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Don Shipley interviews Jesse's brother who was a SEAL about the early classes and what went on, etc etc. Their dad was a WW2 Vet and decorated vet.
What did he say about Jesse?
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What did he say about Jesse?
Not that much - but he sounds exactly like him vocal wise
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What I find most intriguing is that members of the SEAL community (like Ventura was so quick to always throw in with) don't do this kind of shit to each other. It's interesting that he was so quick to go after the same community that he tried to say he was so upset from being made to look bad in...
Thats what makes me scratch my head... he had to have known that the SEAL community would just completely turn their back on him when he went after Kyle, his estate, or his family (however you want to look at it). If he cared so much about them and respected them like they do each other he never would have done this.. he would have gone TO the SEAL community and tried to repair the breach, not make it 100x worse. And it also leads credence to the rumor that he's ran himself into the ground, and is hurting for money because he's basically fucked up every bridge he's ever had.
Agree. If he really was a SEAL, it would have never escalated this much.
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I mentioned several things about Ventura, including him acting like a butt-hurt sissy, the classless nature of pursuing a widow--much less the widow of an American patriot, the book proceeds being paid to family members as reported in the article I posted, and the fact this was only a few paragraphs in a book that didn't even name him. The article you posted contradicted the article I posted on the issue of where the book proceeds were going. Big friggin deal. Whether all or a portion of the proceeds are going to two other families of fallen service members or just to the family of this particular service member, Ventura is still trying to take money from the family of a deceased service member. Kyles' wife and kids have lost decades of earned income with the death of their husband and father. Ventura is a world class douchebag. But my views on this are stated in this thread (and not just in the portions you selectively quoted).
We have houses essentially on stilts too. I passed a guy yesterday who was erecting a rock wall in front of his house. A little late in the game. Also, people act a fool whenever we have hurricane or tsunami threats. Hoarding. Price gouging. Gas lines.
Don't forget the ones who put duct tape over their windows because it is "supposed" to make the windows impact resisting to hurricane winds. Or that put empty buckets outside to catch water in should the storm damage city plants or wells. Which the only thing that happens is the wind normally picks up the buckets and throws it through their *impact resistance* duct tape windows.
Shit, why did I spend over $53K replacing all the glass in my house with hurricane glass if all I needed was $10 in duct tape?
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The world class douche bag is at it again.
Jesse Ventura, Former Navy SEAL, Won't See 'American Sniper' ... And Here's Why
Thursday, 29 Jan 2015
By Newsmax Wires
Don't expect to see Jesse Ventura, the former Minnesota governor and Navy SEAL, lining up with everyone else at a theater to see the box office hit "American Sniper."
Ventura, who won $1.8 million in a defamation lawsuit last year against the estate of the late Chris Kyle, the SEAL protagonist of the movie, said on Wednesday he won't see the film partly because Kyle is no hero to him.
"A hero must be honorable, must have honor. And you can't have honor if you're a liar. There is no honor in lying," Ventura told The Associated Press from his winter home in Baja California, Mexico. He also noted that the movie isn't playing there.
Ventura also dismissed the movie as propaganda because it conveys the false idea that Iraq had something to do with the 9/11 attacks. "It's as authentic as 'Dirty Harry,'" he said, referring to fictional movie series starring Clint Eastwood, the director of "American Sniper."
Ventura testified Kyle fabricated a subchapter in his "American Sniper" book in which Kyle claimed he punched out a man, whom he later identified as Ventura, at a California bar in 2006 for allegedly saying the SEALs "deserve to lose a few" in Iraq. Ventura said it never happened.
News Update
The jury gave Ventura the legal vindication he craved. Publisher HarperCollins removed the passage from the best-seller, and it gets no mention in the movie. Kyle's estate has appealed. Ventura's separate lawsuit against HarperCollins remains pending.
The former wrestler is now working on the second season of his online-only political talk show "Off the Grid" at Ora.tv, which he records in Mexico, where he lives in a solar-powered home with a satellite Internet connection.
Ed Huddleston, a lawyer for Kyle's widow, Taya Kyle, said they won't comment on Ventura's remarks because the lawsuit is on appeal.
Kyle was killed in 2013 on a shooting range. The former Marine charged in his death goes on trial in Texas next month.
The "American Sniper" film has been a sensation at the box office and has earned more than $200 million domestically since it was released last month on Christmas day.
http://www.Newsmax.com/TheWire/jesse-ventura-american-sniper/2015/01/29/id/621372/#ixzz3QE5GV93G
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You can't just automatically call this shameful. ::) If Jesse didn't do this he needs to clear his name and there is nothing wrong with doing that. You don't just put a stop on this kind of shit because the person who accused you died. Nowhere does that happen so I don't know what some of you are thinking. It's not about going after Kyle's widow ::)
I know several people made up their minds on the notion that Ventura did do this from DAY 1!!!! which in itself is pretty fucked up.
I don't have a problem with a person pushing a case forward to get at the truth either way.
We agree. Bah!
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The slide into lunacy continues.
http://www.thewrap.com/jesse-ventura-vents-more-american-sniper-criticism-by-comparing-us-to-nazis-communists-we-behave-the-same-way-now
>:(
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*Applause*
Appeals court rejects $1.8M award to Jesse Ventura in 'American Sniper' case
Published June 13, 2016
Associated Press
(http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.com/content/fox-news/us/2016/06/13/appeals-court-rejects-1-8m-award-to-jesse-ventura-in-american-sniper-case/_jcr_content/par/featured-media/media-0.img.jpg/876/493/1465829612912.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle, left, and former Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura. (AP Photo/File)
MINNEAPOLIS – A federal appeals court on Monday threw out $1.8 million in damages awarded to former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura, who said he was defamed by the late author Chris Kyle in the bestselling book "American Sniper."
The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals also sent a portion of the case -- Ventura's defamation claim -- back to the district court for a new trial, saying Ventura's attorneys made improper remarks and the trial court "clearly abused its discretion in denying a new trial."
Messages left with Ventura, his publicist and his attorney were not immediately returned Monday. An attorney for Kyle's estate had no comment and referred questions to publisher HarperCollins, which said it was reviewing the opinion and had no comment at this time.
Kyle is a former SEAL regarded as the deadliest sniper in U.S. military history with 160 confirmed kills. In his book "American Sniper," he wrote a subchapter called "Punching Out Scruff Face" in which he describes decking Ventura at a California bar in 2006 after Ventura made offensive comments about SEALs, including that the SEALs "deserve to lose a few" in Iraq.
Ventura, a former Underwater Demolition Teams/SEAL member and ex-pro wrestler, sued. He testified at trial that he never made the statements and that the confrontation never happened. He also said the book ruined his reputation in the tight-knit SEAL community.
Kyle, who was killed on a shooting range in 2013 by a troubled fellow veteran, gave sworn videotaped testimony before his death that his story was true. The case proceeded against his estate.
In 2014, a jury awarded Ventura $500,000 for defamation and $1.3 million for unjust enrichment. Kyle's widow, Taya Kyle, appealed, asking that the verdict be thrown out or that a new trial be ordered on First Amendment and other grounds. Ventura's lawyers, however, argued that jury got the verdict right.
In Monday's ruling, a three-judge appellate panel reversed the unjust-enrichment award, saying the theory of unjust-enrichment "enjoys no legal support under Minnesota law" and fails as a matter of law.
The majority of the judges also vacated the defamation award and sent that portion of the case back to court for a new trial.
The majority found that Ventura's attorneys improperly let the jury hear that publisher HarperCollins had an insurance policy to cover a defamation award and attorney fees. The majority said those comments prevented Kyle's estate from receiving a fair trial and that Ventura's attorneys deliberately referenced a "deep-pocket insurer" to try to influence the jury and enhance damages.
"From our review, these unsupported, improper, and prejudicial statements were not heat of the moment argument, but were strategic and calculated," the judges wrote.
The judges also wrote: "Ventura's counsel's closing remarks, in combination with the improper cross-examination of two witnesses about Kyle's insurance coverage, prevented Kyle from receiving a fair trial."
Judge Lavenski Smith dissented, saying Ventura's attorneys mentioned insurance coverage only after Taya Kyle testified she'd be responsible for damages. He noted that Ventura's attorneys argued Taya Kyle should not be allowed to "plead poverty if an insurance company is going to pick up the tab."
Smith said any error in allowing Ventura's counsel to ask about insurance was harmless and non-prejudicial. He also found that the $500,000 award for defamation was not excessive.
The hit movie based on Kyle's book did not depict the alleged incident.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/13/appeals-court-rejects-1-8m-award-to-jesse-ventura-in-american-sniper-case.html
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Still a douchebag.
Jesse Ventura, Chris Kyle estate fight over legal bills in defamation case
By: The Associated Press, February 27, 2017
MINNEAPOLIS — Former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura and the estate of "American Sniper" author Chris Kyle are fighting over legal bills that mounted during Ventura's defamation lawsuit.
Attorneys for Kyle's widow say Ventura lost his lawsuit and should reimburse the estate more than $37,300, including nearly $7,900 in trial transcript fees and $27,800 for a bond it was required to post, plus a few other expenses, the Star Tribune reported. Ventura's lawyer says the jury verdict was only partly reversed and that most of the bill isn't his responsibility.
An appeals court gave Ventura the option to return to federal court in St. Paul to retry the defamation suit. Ventura previously told the newspaper he'll seek a new trial.
The two sides have clashed in a long-running fight that erupted in 2012, after Chris Kyle — a retired Navy SEAL — published an autobiography.
Kyle wrote that in 2006 he punched a man he referred to as "Scruff Face" in a California bar for making derogatory remarks about SEALs, then-President George W. Bush and the Iraq war. In subsequent interviews with national media, Kyle said "Scruff Face" was Ventura, who served with the SEALs during the Vietnam War.
"American Sniper" became a bestseller and was subsequently turned into a movie, which didn't mention the Ventura incident.
Ventura sued Kyle over the book, saying the bar fight account was fabricated. Kyle was killed in an unrelated incident in 2013, but Ventura continued his suit against the Kyle estate. In 2014, Ventura won a $1.8 million verdict in a jury trial in U.S. District Court in St. Paul.
The Eighth Circuit overturned the ruling, saying the $1.3 million the jury awarded for "unjust enrichment" was an improper application of state law. It also vacated the $500,000 jury award to Ventura for defamation, saying the former governor's attorney was allowed to make an improper argument at trial.
https://www.navytimes.com/articles/jesse-ventura-chris-kyle-estate-fight-over-legal-bills-in-defamation-case
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Kyle lied about many things. He created this problem. End of story.
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Kyle was a devastating sniper, surpassing the fabled Carlos Hatchcock in kills. Still, he was troubled and told many falsehoods (killing looters in New Orleans, etc.). Since he has passed, I wish Jesse would leave it alone. Be the better man.
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Kyle was a devastating sniper, surpassing the fabled Carlos Hatchcock in kills. Still, he was troubled and told many falsehoods (killing looters in New Orleans, etc.). Since he has passed, I wish Jesse would leave it alone. Be the better man.
I have nothing but respect for Kyle's service, he didn't need to embellish.
Hard to compare to Carlos, being that they were totally different enviroments. Carlos may have had the best field craft ever, and winning the Wimbledon Cup is proof of his marksmanship.
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I have nothing but respect for Kyle's service, he didn't need to embellish.
Hard to compare to Carlos, being that they were totally different enviroments. Carlos may have had the best field craft ever, and winning the Wimbledon Cup is proof of his marksmanship.
::)
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::)
WTF are you rolling your eyes at? If Kyle made it through the 1st day of boot camp, he's done more than you. ::)
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Real heroes don't lie. Their accomplishments speak for themselves.
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Still a world class douche bag.
Angry Jesse Ventura Turns on Fox Host Watters Over Chris Kyle Questions
By Jason Devaney | Monday, 26 Jun 2017
Former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura showed his testy side when a recent interview with a Fox News host turned to a sensitive topic.
Jesse Watters, the host of "Watters' World" and a co-host of "The Five," caught up with Ventura at a recent marijuana convention in New York City. Ventura had given a speech about legalizing the drug.
Watters threw a few questions about Ventura's thoughts on marijuana before switching gears and asking about the lawsuit Ventura filed against the widow of Chris Kyle, a former Navy SEAL who was murdered in 2013. Kyle wrote in his book that Ventura was causing trouble in a San Diego bar and Kyle punched him in the face.
Ventura has denied the fight ever happened and sued Kyle for defamation. After Kyle's death, Ventura sued Kyle's widow Taya and was eventually awarded $1.8 million, a decision that was later overturned. Ventura is still pushing for legal action.
"Were you high when you sued Chris Kyle's widow?" Watters asked.
"Was I high? That's [an expletive] question and I expect it from someone at Fox. No," a clearly irritated Ventura said.
"No it ain't [a serious question]. No it ain't, 'cause I never sued the widow. I sued him."
Watters then pointed out that Taya Kyle is "suffering a lot of pain" due to Ventura's continued pursuit of legal action.
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"No, she isn't. Insurance pays for it all," Ventura said. "She hasn't paid one cent. How do I know it? It's my case. The case got overturned because the truth came out. Insurance is paying for all of it. It isn't costing his family a cent. That's the way legal works if you do your homework."
Ventura then said Taya Kyle "should apologize to me for the lie that her husband told about me."
Chris Kyle is known as the deadliest sniper in U.S. history with around 160 confirmed kills. His 2012 book "American Sniper" chronicled his life as a Navy SEAL marksman.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/jesse-ventura-jesse-watters-fox-chris-kyle/2017/06/26/id/798324/