Are American Luxury Cars Improving Or Is It More Of The Same

[Parker]

It would be amazing to go back in time, and be able to knock boots in the back of one of these!!!

You actually were able to do that? Those had very little room in them. Nice velvety seats. Anemic gagged Windsor engines.
And the 85 mph speedos

On September 1, 1979, in a regulation that also regulated speedometer and odometer accuracy, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) required speedometers to have special emphasis on the number 55 and a maximum speed of 85 mph (135 km/h). However, on October 22, 1981, NHTSA proposed eliminating speedometer and odometer rules because they were "unlikely to yield significant safety benefits" and "[a] highlighted '55' on a speedometer scale adds little to the information provided to the driver by a roadside speed limit sign."[37][38][39]

[sync pulse]

Solid post, SP.

This has always been the problem.

The answer is to make a bigger battery, but, that makes the car heavier, requiring more energy to move it.

Afraid not, it has to be something other than a chemical storage battery...

[M4tad0r]

2016 Cadillac CTS-V - Jay Leno's Garage

Cadillac kicking some serious ass it seems. Outstanding, who would guess, create a racing department and bring such technology to you commercial vehicles, kinda like BMW did with their M series and Mercedes AMG do  through their F1 departments, who would guess.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1101087_2016-cadillac-cts-v-visits-jay-lenos-garage-video?fbfanpage

[The Scott]

I'd say so.  Four door Cadillacs are now faster than Ferraris.

I agree.  Amurican cars are quite good and steadily improving. 

[Kim Jong Bob]

I agree.  Amurican cars are quite good and steadily improving. 

to bad they are ugly (the sedans)

[Palumboism]

Cadillac built over-sized, too heavy, poor handling, mushy suspension, chunks of low grade pig iron because that is what the WWII generation wanted.

They didn't see the change coming in automotive driving tastes.  They thought the desire for fun, sprightly, well handling GT style cars was just a temporary California based fad.  They thought as the children of the WWII generation aged they would start to want cars like their dad's.

They did not see the success of the 1964 Pontiac GTO,  Mustang, Volkswagen GTI, Corvair (If they had bothered to engineer it better) as being a harbinger of things to come.
 
Can you believe that GM was so stupid to keep Buick, but kill Pontiac?  The division most associated with GT style cars.

Here's another famous example of automotive executives not trying to understand what the public wants.  I didn't realize this, but the Edsel wasn't just a car, it was another brand similar to Mercury, intended to give Ford owners more choice when moving to the intermediate market.  Apparently GM had a 75 percent retention rating when owners traded up vs only 26 percent for Ford owners trading up to Mercury.  The rest would defect to GM products.  

Everyone knows what a flop Edsel was, but what's unbelievable is the market manager blamed the American consumer for being to fickle.

By Richard Feloni
J.C. Doyle, an Edsel marketing manager, even went so far as blaming the American public for the failed launch. He tells Brooks that he was flabbergasted that the American consumer dared to be so fickle.

"What they'd been buying for several years encouraged the industry to build exactly this kind of car," he says. "We gave it to them, and they wouldn't take it. Well, they shouldn't have acted like that ... And now the public wants these little beetles. I don't get it!"

http://www.businessinsider.com/lessons-from-the-failure-of-the-ford-edsel-2015-9

[Thespritz0]

The two main problems with Tesla are:

• 1) The cost of the thing.
• 2) The range on a single charge.

Number one I am not addressing here.  Number two is more problematical.

Chemical batteries are limited in their energy density...The amount of charge that it can hold is a function of what the electrolyte and the electrodes are made of.

The problem of range can be looked at two ways:

• A) How efficient is the drive train at converting the stored energy into motion.
• B) How much energy can the batteries hold.

Now Tesla may indeed have a very efficient drive train, but the energy density of the batteries are determined by chemistry and the choice of electrodes and electrolytes...you cannot make it "take more".

The problem with Elon Musk is that when an engineer, technician, or automotive journalist who is not employed by Elon Musk says things that he doesn't want to hear...He goes ballistic...Think Jeremy Clarkson and Top Gear's Technical staff. (I would have bought tickets to see Clarkson and Musk that day.)

It will be revolutionary only when another way is found to provide the current other than storage batteries...

^^
ONLY OneMoreRep could debate you on this, IMHO... 

[Palumboism]

The Continental is supposed to get the same 400 hp 3.0 twin turbo engine as the MKZ.  This car and the CT6 give me the most hope for American luxury cars.

[Thespritz0]

The Continental is supposed to get the same 400 hp 3.0 twin turbo engine as the MKZ.  This car and the CT6 give me the most hope for American luxury cars.

^^
Did you ever get to drive the previous one?  The ecoboost version was fast as hell, and yes I got to drive one but they are hella expensive!!

[Thin Lizzy]

The Continental is supposed to get the same 400 hp 3.0 twin turbo engine as the MKZ.  This car and the CT6 give me the most hope for American luxury cars.

I don't see the market for this type of car. Couples and Families with money are probably gonna go for an SUV, or a German make. Seems like this car is for a generation that's dying out and not being replaced. People are more casual, these days.

[Skylge]

Here's another famous example of automotive executives not trying to understand what the public wants.  I didn't realize this, but the Edsel wasn't just a car, it was another brand similar to Mercury, intended to give Ford owners more choice when moving to the intermediate market.  Apparently GM had a 75 percent retention rating when owners traded up vs only 26 percent for Ford owners trading up to Mercury.  The rest would defect to GM products.  

Everyone knows what a flop Edsel was, but what's unbelievable is the market manager blamed the American consumer for being to fickle.

By Richard Feloni
J.C. Doyle, an Edsel marketing manager, even went so far as blaming the American public for the failed launch. He tells Brooks that he was flabbergasted that the American consumer dared to be so fickle.

"What they'd been buying for several years encouraged the industry to build exactly this kind of car," he says. "We gave it to them, and they wouldn't take it. Well, they shouldn't have acted like that ... And now the public wants these little beetles. I don't get it!"

http://www.businessinsider.com/lessons-from-the-failure-of-the-ford-edsel-2015-9

Front of the car / grille looked like a vagina. Big problem in the 1950's.....

[Skylge]

very handsome car, great lines

i love these stretched out coupes

Didn't Quincy Jones buy that thing? He had no drivers licence btw   :-)

[Skylge]

The two main problems with Tesla are:

• 1) The cost of the thing.
• 2) The range on a single charge.

Number one I am not addressing here.  Number two is more problematical.

Chemical batteries are limited in their energy density...The amount of charge that it can hold is a function of what the electrolyte and the electrodes are made of.

The problem of range can be looked at two ways:

• A) How efficient is the drive train at converting the stored energy into motion.
• B) How much energy can the batteries hold.

Now Tesla may indeed have a very efficient drive train, but the energy density of the batteries are determined by chemistry and the choice of electrodes and electrolytes...you cannot make it "take more".

The problem with Elon Musk is that when an engineer, technician, or automotive journalist who is not employed by Elon Musk says things that he doesn't want to hear...He goes ballistic...Think Jeremy Clarkson and Top Gear's Technical staff. (I would have bought tickets to see Clarkson and Musk that day.)

It will be revolutionary only when another way is found to provide the current other than storage batteries...

In Germany a Model S costs about the same as a porsche panamera
Tesla states that range will improve 5% per year
The cost per kwh of lithium ion is dropping faster than expected
Range of a Model S (85) when driven normally and max say 70 mph is about 400 km or 250 miles
Add in their supercharger network and the other public fast loading stations and it should be enough for most people I think

[Palumboism]

I don't see the market for this type of car. Couples and Families with money are probably gonna go for an SUV, or a German make. Seems like this car is for a generation that's dying out and not being replaced. People are more casual, these days.

You're right, the market for this type of car isn't very big, but they're discontinuing the MKS this year, which leaves them with only one car and three SUV's.  

This car would compete with the Chrysler 300, Charger, Impala, and LaCrosse.  So, there is an existing market, but it's shrinking fast,  which is a big problem for all three domestic car companies.  Large cars were their third pillar of profits right behind Pickups and SUV's.  That's why Lincoln made the Town Car for so long.  Even though it gave Lincoln the geriatric image, it was very profitable.  

GM has made the right decision to completely separate Cadillac from GM's other brands and move the headquarters to New York.  One example of why this is an important move is the ATS, which has been a failure.  The ATS was originally designed to be the Pontiac G6 replacement.  At one point Cadillac offered a four cylinder engine from the Malibu as a base engine.  Customers may not know these facts, but they can perceive them.

[Thin Lizzy]

You're right, the market for this type of car isn't very big, but they're discontinuing the MKS this year, which leaves them with only one car and three SUV's.  

This car would compete with the Chrysler 300, Charger, Impala, and LaCrosse.  So, there is an existing market, but it's shrinking fast,  which is a big problem for all three domestic car companies.  Large cars were their third pillar of profits right behind Pickups and SUV's.  That's why Lincoln made the Town Car for so long.  Even though it gave Lincoln the geriatric image, it was very profitable.  

GM has made the right decision to completely separate Cadillac from GM's other brands and move the headquarters to New York.  One example of why this is an important move is the ATS, which has been a failure.  The ATS was originally designed to be the Pontiac G6 replacement.  At one point Cadillac offered a four cylinder engine from the Malibu as a base engine.  Customers may not know these facts, but they can perceive them.

Strong post. You know your cars:

For a "Point A to B" economical car, I'd go with a Camry.

SUVs, I like the Nissan Murano, or a Rogue if money is an issue.

The only American make I'd buy? See below:

[Parker]

You're right, the market for this type of car isn't very big, but they're discontinuing the MKS this year, which leaves them with only one car and three SUV's.  

This car would compete with the Chrysler 300, Charger, Impala, and LaCrosse.  So, there is an existing market, but it's shrinking fast,  which is a big problem for all three domestic car companies.  Large cars were their third pillar of profits right behind Pickups and SUV's.  That's why Lincoln made the Town Car for so long.  Even though it gave Lincoln the geriatric image, it was very profitable.  

GM has made the right decision to completely separate Cadillac from GM's other brands and move the headquarters to New York.  One example of why this is an important move is the ATS, which has been a failure.  The ATS was originally designed to be the Pontiac G6 replacement.  At one point Cadillac offered a four cylinder engine from the Malibu as a base engine.  Customers may not know these facts, but they can perceive them.

Odd thing about the ATS is that it th best handling car of its class. This class is stacked too. The ATS competes with the 3 series, C Class, IS, A4, Q60. People have suggested that it is a combo of things. The Caddy's CUE infotainment system, the base 4 cylinder engine is course, the stick shift, and oh yeah, the perception thing. It doesn't help Cadillac that it's dealerships tend to be attached to other GM dealerships, and the customer service is not Lexus-like.
The ATS-V should be flying off the shelves. And apparently, it is better than the standard bearer, the M3, in certain aspects.

[Thespritz0]

You actually were able to do that? Those had very little room in them. Nice velvety seats. Anemic gagged Windsor engines.
And the 85 mph speedos

^^
I was only 160lb when I was in the Military, so yes- and multiple times!!

[Palumboism]

By Ronnie Schreiber
In an interview held at Cadillac’s new business headquarters in New York City’s trendy SoHo district with Fortune, Melody Lee, ‘director of brand and reputation strategy’ for General Motors’ luxury brand, had some interesting things to say about the move to NYC, about the brand, and about herself. Other than to say that it’s just quite possible that outstanding product is a little bit more important to a company’s success than Ms. Lee seems to think, I’m not going to comment on her remarks because I think they speak for themselves and, frankly, I think they don’t bode well for the brand. You can read them and offer your own commentary after the jump. The engineers and designers at GM have given Cadillac the best products that it has had in decades, but automotive history has many examples of fine vehicles that were crippled in the marketplace by the very people trying to market them.

Thus spake Melody Lee:

    “I’ll often say, ‘Well, do you want a millennial’s perspective?’ You have one right here.”

    “Everyone in New York is always just a little bit ahead of everyone else and we need to be the brand that stands for that.”

    “I don’t buy products, I buy brands. I don’t use Apple computers because they are the best computers, I use them because Apple is cool. We need to show drivers what the Cadillac lifestyle is all about.”

    “We want to be a global luxury brand that happens to sell cars. We don’t want to be an automotive brand.”

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/11/cadillacs-director-brand-reputation-strategy-dont-want-automotive-brand/

[The True Adonis]

Morons buy brands for the brand.  Intelligent people buy what they want.

[Palumboism]

Morons buy brands for the brand.  Intelligent people buy what they want.

The Volkswagen phaeton was a superb automobile based on the Bentley Continental Flying spur.  It was an abysmal failure because it had a VW emblem on it.  Why? because brands matter.  Just ask Hyundai why they're creating Genesis.

[APE907]

By Ronnie Schreiber
In an interview held at Cadillac’s new business headquarters in New York City’s trendy SoHo district with Fortune, Melody Lee, ‘director of brand and reputation strategy’ for General Motors’ luxury brand, had some interesting things to say about the move to NYC, about the brand, and about herself. Other than to say that it’s just quite possible that outstanding product is a little bit more important to a company’s success than Ms. Lee seems to think, I’m not going to comment on her remarks because I think they speak for themselves and, frankly, I think they don’t bode well for the brand. You can read them and offer your own commentary after the jump. The engineers and designers at GM have given Cadillac the best products that it has had in decades, but automotive history has many examples of fine vehicles that were crippled in the marketplace by the very people trying to market them.

Thus spake Melody Lee:

    “I’ll often say, ‘Well, do you want a millennial’s perspective?’ You have one right here.”

    “Everyone in New York is always just a little bit ahead of everyone else and we need to be the brand that stands for that.”

    “I don’t buy products, I buy brands. I don’t use Apple computers because they are the best computers, I use them because Apple is cool. We need to show drivers what the Cadillac lifestyle is all about.”

    “We want to be a global luxury brand that happens to sell cars. We don’t want to be an automotive brand.”

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/11/cadillacs-director-brand-reputation-strategy-dont-want-automotive-brand/

Someone needs to muzzle this bitch.  Smug.  The whole "buying Apple" metaphor is vomit inducing. 

[The True Adonis]

The Volkswagen phaeton was a superb automobile based on the Bentley Continental Flying spur.  It was an abysmal failure because it had a VW emblem on it.  Why? because brands matter.  Just ask Hyundai why they're creating Genesis.

Stalone's Phaeton

You could have put a Ferrari badge on it and nobody would have bought it, genius.

[mr.turbo]

It would be amazing to go back in time, and be able to knock boots in the back of one of these!!!

gotta love those garage door mechanical light covers

pretty sure my grandfather drove one of these

[sync pulse]

gotta love those garage door mechanical light covers

pretty sure my grandfather drove one of these

Those light covers opened by engine vacuum…After a while when the vacuum system became leaky from tubing rot,  they would sometimes just droop half open as if the car had Myasthenia Gravis.  Some people just jammed the covers open permanently.

[bigmc]

American cars are shit