Author Topic: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...  (Read 1120 times)

thewickedtruth

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Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« on: May 18, 2007, 08:31:11 AM »
This is from a post from another board. I wanted to share with you guys to see what you think? Makes sense to me!

GG and Superduty got me thinking tho so I'd thought I'd try to explain it.

The goal of injecting steriods is to increase blood levels of testosterone much higher than can be achieved normally. One of our criteria in doing this is to keep blood levels as stable as possible throughout cycle to provide the best environment for growth and to avoid as many sides as possible. I believe many side effects are caused by the spikes and dips created by once or twice a week injections, even using long esters. A way to reduce these sides would be to use a proper half life to determine when to inject or more importantly how much to frontload with.

Now most half lives are calculated on 1.5 x the number of carbon atoms to determine 1/2 life in days. Thats wrong! If you go to PubMed or AMJ you can look up numerous studies showing a much shorter half life(@ .7 per carbon atom)

That difference is because esters decay at a logarithmic rate, meaning the more esterified hormone in the injection depot, the more is released. This release rate slows as the amount of esterified hormone in the depot is reduced over time.
The general rule is about 0.7 X the number of carbons atoms in a linear ester . However when the body builder needs to keep in mind is that the majority of the esterified hormone is released, regardless of the ester, with the first 24hrs of injection because of the logarithmic rate of decay.
(THANKS TO BODY BY BALCO FOR HIS INFO)
What does this mean in simple terms?
I'll useTestosterone Enthante in an 8 week cycle as an example:

Assume a 5 day half life for enthanate based on .7 x it's carbons.
Injecting 579mg on day one of your cycle will provide stable levels of 550 mg per week for the duration of your cycle provided you replentish 75 mg EVERY DAY.
INJECT
Day 1- 579- giving you 550 mg in 24 hours
Day 2 75 giving you 550 mg
Day 3 75 550
Day 4 75 550
Day 5 75 550
Day 6 75 550
Day 7 75 550
Day 8 75 550
Day 9 75 550
Day10 75 550
Day11 75 550
Day12 75 550

and so on until day 57 when you stop injections
decay clearance is as follows
DAY Total MG
58 479
59 417
60 363
61 316
62 275
63 240
64 209
65 182
66 158
67 138
68 120
69 104
70 91
71 79
72 69
73 60
74 52
75 45
76 40
77 34
78 30
79 26
80 23
81 20
82 17
83 15
84 13
85 11
all the way down to day 98 (end of week 14) before the enth is totally cleared.
__________________


Enthanate Clearance 500 mg

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Now let's look at 1 shot of test enthanate of 500mg taken on day one.

It will take 8 weeks to clear(assuming a 5 day 1/2 life)

DAY Injected 500 mg(level)

1 500
2 475
3 414
4 360
5 313
6 273
7 238
8 207
9 180
10 157
11 136
12 119
13 103
14 90

and so- on until week 9 when it reaches 0.

Enthanate injected E3D at 250 mg-levels

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOw lets look at Injections of Test Enthanate every 3 days with 250 mg.
Blood levels are all over the place and create many dips and spikes.
Not a prime anabolic environment. It takes 7 days and 3 injections to even get to 500 mg(498) adn then continues to dip and spike the 500 mark until week 4 but then the spikes are over 600 mg. This daily flucuation cannot be good for combating sides or keeping steady growth rate.
The other way to look at it is $$$$. 500 ed levels would be more economical. You'd gain more.
I wonder if the 2 grams a week guys would do better on 1 gram injected every day vs 3x a week.


DAY INJECT TOTAL

1.... .250.... 238
2 .......0..... 207..
3 ......0 .....180
4.... 250 ....394
5 ......0 .....343
6 ......0..... 299
7 .....250... 498
8 .....0...... 433
9..... 0 ......377
10 ..250 ....566
11... 0 ......493
12... 0..... 429
13 ..250..... 611
14... 0....... 532
15... 0 .....463
16.. 250 ...640
17 ...0 .....558
18 ....0 ....485
19 ...250 ..660
20... 0 .....575
21 ...0 .....500
22 .250 ....673
23... 0.... 586
24... 0 ....510
25 ..250.. 681
26... 0 ....593
27... 0.... 518
28 ..250 ..687
29 ..0 .....598
30 ..0 ....521

and so on.
^^That BTW, IS why you frontload.
*END*




NOW my cycle jects don't look EXACTLY like this because I don't like that much needle holes in my system. BUT I'm running deca 400 and Test e 600 a week shooting it this way e3d.

day test e   deca
1         600mg   400mg front loaded first shot
4        128mg     85mg
7        128mg     85mg
and so on..


This is based on the idea that both test e and deca have a 14 day half life. At the 600mg dosage of test, I'm losing 48mg a day and with the Deca on the same life span, I'm losing 28mg per day. Once front loaded..the jects are keeping me from fluctuating as badly as I would on once a week shots AND unlike my last cycles where I've had some pretty obvious sides from the beginning, I'VE HAD NONE! It's keeping my blood levels consistant and the shot volume smaller! LOVING IT! I just wanted to give this to you guys for some consideration if you've never read or heard about this. I knew about half lifes, etc but NEVER had something this simple crossed my mind.

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2007, 09:21:08 AM »
Seen that before...do you have any actual blood panel information?

Good luck!

8)

thewickedtruth

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2007, 09:37:09 AM »
Seen that before...do you have any actual blood panel information?

Good luck!

8)

Of mine? At the house I do and I just gave another sample to the labs (thank god for insurance) and hoping to get that back by monday. Overall though, what do you think bro? Makes sense? Half lives aren't something made up. Which would mean eventually on a longer cycle of 250-500mg of test a week, alot of us are probably over a gram and dont' even know it midway through a decent cycle.

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2007, 11:01:45 AM »
Of mine? At the house I do and I just gave another sample to the labs (thank god for insurance) and hoping to get that back by monday. Overall though, what do you think bro? Makes sense? Half lives aren't something made up. Which would mean eventually on a longer cycle of 250-500mg of test a week, alot of us are probably over a gram and dont' even know it midway through a decent cycle.

It's a good theory for sure...i would be interested in actual levels rather than half life estimates.

i know guys who do something similar but they are running high amounts of test so they shoot 250mg per day, 7 days a week.

Let me know how it works out.

8)

thewickedtruth

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2007, 11:07:44 AM »
It's a good theory for sure...i would be interested in actual levels rather than half life estimates.

i know guys who do something similar but they are running high amounts of test so they shoot 250mg per day, 7 days a week.

Let me know how it works out.

8)

I'm having better results in the past 3-4 weeks than I have ever on any cycle. Which means one of two things. It's true OR i got shitty gear and should stick with making it myself to ensure good stuff. Either way!

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2007, 11:12:28 AM »
I'm having better results in the past 3-4 weeks than I have ever on any cycle. Which means one of two things. It's true OR i got shitty gear and should stick with making it myself to ensure good stuff. Either way!

I'm all for it...

i like new ideas to get better results.

8)

thewickedtruth

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2007, 11:16:44 AM »
HAHA worst case scenario I'm taking 250 and 130mg of test and deca a week!  ;D  AND GETTING RESULTS!

trab

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 03:43:53 PM »
Interesting. At first it comes across as a lot of messing around, but it is a small daily shot.
I'd consider a higher front load though. Because.... under normal circumstance, buildup effect on
 Enenthate will give approx 1.5 X the weekly mgs injected after about 4 shots or so.
Its building up faster than breaking down. So a guy is running more Mgs per wk than injecting after a time.
THat max peak level is probably important IMO.

Also, if dont take into account decline in Nat level after a bit.

thewickedtruth

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2007, 04:10:57 PM »
Interesting. At first it comes across as a lot of messing around, but it is a small daily shot.
I'd consider a higher front load though. Because.... under normal circumstance, buildup effect on
 Enenthate will give approx 1.5 X the weekly mgs injected after about 4 shots or so.
Its building up faster than breaking down. So a guy is running more Mgs per wk than injecting after a time.
THat max peak level is probably important IMO.

Also, if dont take into account decline in Nat level after a bit.


You're right. It's never going to be CONSISTANT unless you've been on for MONTHS where you've shut down and doing daily jects. It's just up to consider consistency and help aid consistant gains. I've giving something similar a legit chance and if anything I'll have learned wether or not it works and turned myself into a pin cushion in the process.

trab

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 06:35:48 PM »

You're right. It's never going to be CONSISTANT unless you've been on for MONTHS where you've shut down and doing daily jects. It's just up to consider consistency and help aid consistant gains. I've giving something similar a legit chance and if anything I'll have learned wether or not it works and turned myself into a pin cushion in the process.


Oh, I didnt say its without merit. I think it's got possabilities. Guy needs to experiment. What works for one dont work for all.

At times I like a JOLT. Before a PR workout.

thewickedtruth

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007, 07:22:24 PM »
The more I think about it though, the more it irritates me! Even though I'm going off proven half lifes, I hope I'm not screwing myself out of juice by going on the math parts and not just shooting 600/400 every week.

trab

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Re: Different theory on injecting I wanted to share...
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2007, 03:18:16 PM »
The more I think about it though, the more it irritates me! Even though I'm going off proven half lifes, I hope I'm not screwing myself out of juice by going on the math parts and not just shooting 600/400 every week.

Body building's a long term game. You feel good? Having good workouts?..  improving... Whats more to ask?