US Default Averted -- Tea Party Hijacking For Nil

[syntaxmachine]

Tea Party tactics: engage in futile brinksmanship in an effort to oppose already well-ensconced law (Obamacare), in exchange for: sinking the Republican brand's favorability rating to its lowest level in at least three decades (the data go back to 1993 but it's unlikely Republicans were less popular in the 1980's than now, given presidential election results), increase the rift between moderate and conservative Republicans and thus damage future presidential campaign efforts, hamper US economic growth to the tune of $20+ billion this quarter, and potentially threaten the creditworthiness of the country for...well, nothing. Brilliant!



Markets rise as US strikes deal to avert debt crisis
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10384399/Markets-rise-as-US-strikes-deal-to-avert-debt-crisis.html

"Markets rose sharply as President Barack Obama and Republicans agreed to reopen the US government and, crucially, increase the country’s $16.7 trillion (£10.5 trillion) borrowing limit, with just hours to go before a final deadline.

The eleventh-hour deal came as companies on both sides of the Atlantic made contingency plans in case lawmakers in Washington had failed to reach an agreement, which could have thrown the global economy back into recession."

[nicorulez]

Syntax

If you think this is a great victory for Obama and America get ready. Let me ask you this my liberal friend. A 2700 page bill that your defacto co-leader Pelosi stated to pass without reading it first is being forced upon our great country. It is a pity that the website to sign up for the state run exchanges is so broken that 99% of the people cannot even register. It is alarming that a Democratically controlled Senate balked at the idea brought up by the House Republicans that if the general public were going to get this deal, then all Congressman and the President himself should join the party and enroll with the Affordable Care Act. Moreover, the high dollar Democratic donars and companies exempt from the AAC or Obamacare cried foul...not us. Nice going Dems, pass a bill you want no part of if you are one of the liberal elite. Meanwhile, taxes are going up and many of the poor who could get on insurance still make too much money to get Medicaid, but make too little to get the Federal subsidy. Thus, over 30 million Americans will still have no insurance and the cost will to the working class Americans will be tremendous. If this makes you happy Syntax, rejoice.

[nicorulez]

http://www.californiahealthline.org/articles/2013/6/10/30m-americans-will-still-be-uninsured-in-2016-under-aca-study-says

[nicorulez]

Ok Syntax, here is your great Democratic representatives so proud of Obamacare.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/10/02/from-politico-to-hannity-the-trajectory-of-congresss-obamacare-exemption-myth/

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2013/10/01/reminder-every-senate-democrat-voted-in-favor-of-exempting-themselves-from-obamacare-n1714217

I would love to hear from the liberal schmoes on the board. How do you as a liberal tolerate your representatives excusing themselves from the very law that is to be the defining legislation of their beloved leader "Osama" Hussein Obama ;-)

[arce1988]

[syntaxmachine]

If you think this is a great victory for Obama and America get ready. Let me ask you this my liberal friend. A 2700 page bill that your defacto co-leader Pelosi stated to pass without reading it first is being forced upon our great country. It is a pity that the website to sign up for the state run exchanges is so broken that 99% of the people cannot even register. It is alarming that a Democratically controlled Senate balked at the idea brought up by the House Republicans that if the general public were going to get this deal, then all Congressman and the President himself should join the party and enroll with the Affordable Care Act. Moreover, the high dollar Democratic donars and companies exempt from the AAC or Obamacare cried foul...not us. Nice going Dems, pass a bill you want no part of if you are one of the liberal elite. Meanwhile, taxes are going up and many of the poor who could get on insurance still make too much money to get Medicaid, but make too little to get the Federal subsidy. Thus, over 30 million Americans will still have no insurance and the cost will to the working class Americans will be tremendous. If this makes you happy Syntax, rejoice.

I'm relieved that I don't hold (and didn't assert) any of the views ascribed to me in this post, and thus don't have to respond in any detail.

[nicorulez]

Hey you called them Tea Baggers so I assumed you were a lib. Forgive me kind sir 

[oldtimer1]

The Tea Party stands on one main principal. The government spends more money than it takes in.  For this liberals classify them as mean spirited wackos. It is the other way around.

The Republicans said to the Democrats you can open the 13% of government that was closed except for the affordable health care act. It was the Democrats that said all or nothing then planned on strategies on how to maximize the pain to blame the Republicans.

The Government subsidizing the massive amount of health care exchange policies will cost a massive amount for this entitlement.The government is broke.  Look at the mismanagement of it so far. 80 million dollars for a health care exchange web site that still doesn't work. 80 million to make a web site? 600 million dollar budget to advertise it. Almost everyone who doesn't have insurance will receive money toward paying the premium from government. I guess that sounds fantastic to a liberal but it will cost this country dearly.

[nicorulez]

The Tea Party stands on one main principal. The government spends more money than it takes in.  For this liberals classify them as mean spirited wackos. It is the other way around.

The Republicans said to the Democrats you can open the 13% of government that was closed except for the affordable health care act. It was the Democrats that said all or nothing then planned on strategies on how to maximize the pain to blame the Republicans.

The Government subsidizing the massive amount of health care exchange policies will cost a massive amount for this entitlement.The government is broke.  Look at the mismanagement of it so far. 80 million dollars for a health care exchange web site that still doesn't work. 80 million to make a web site? 600 million dollar budget to advertise it. Almost everyone who doesn't have insurance will receive money toward paying the premium from government. I guess that sounds fantastic to a liberal but it will cost this country dearly.

Nice to hear a little common sense than the usual liberal media BS that is spewed incessantly. People should inform themselves of the issues before they pile on the Republicans. The Democrats are criminals.

[syntaxmachine]

Hey you called them Tea Baggers so I assumed you were a lib. Forgive me kind sir  

1. It is true that I am not particularly fond of so-called Tea Party politicians.

2. What do you think would be an optimal setup for America's healthcare system(s)? I think we can agree the status quo was unacceptable -- high expenditures for inferior patient outcomes relative to all OECD nations.

[nicorulez]

1. It is true that I am not particularly fond of so-called Tea Party politicians.

2. What do you think would be an optimal setup for America's healthcare system(s)? I think we can agree the status quo was unacceptable -- ridiculous expenditures for inferior outcomes relative to all OECD nations.

Ok Syntax, let me try one on for you. First I am a physician so I have some experience. If you don't believe, OMR and Galeniko can confirm. Regardless, lets try something that would not add to the debt and probably get healthcare for all.

Assume that one in ten Americans does not have insurance. That means when a physician sees that patient in the hospital or unlikely a clinic setting, he very well may not get paid a dime. However, thanks to trial attorneys and the Democrats refusal for TORT reform, the patient can still sue the pants off of you if his outcome is poor. Consider that many of the uninsured abuse tobacco and alcohol for years, and have not been seen by physicians for decades. Thus, by the time they present, they are usually pretty ill. It is a lose lose for the physician.

However, what if the government instead of taxing the hell out of anyone who works and makes a buck did the opposite. Why not allow physicians to care for indigent patients without risk for senseless lawsuits. Essentially, you shield them from frivolous lawsuits brought on by ambulance chasing lawyers. Then, allow physicians to write off against their taxes a percentage (say 80%) of Medicare allowable billing. Then, if the physician is an owner of a small business that employs a certain number of employees, give them a tax benefit to allow insurance for their employees and a tax break.

If you look at the ACA, a large percentage of these uninsured will get on the government and state dole via Medicaid, which is accepted by a very low percentage of physicians. The pay is piss poor, and the patient's are notorious for being difficult and quick to sue. Thus, shield the physicians, give them a tax break, and don't needlessly tax working Americans to make a system that is patently flawed and that has been put together in haste without forethought.

I can go on but my brothers on GB are probably bored to tears. I anxiously await your retort.

[syntaxmachine]

Ok Syntax, let me try one on for you. First I am a physician so I have some experience. If you don't believe, OMR and Galeniko can confirm. Regardless, lets try something that would not add to the debt and probably get healthcare for all.

Thanks for your comments!

OK, tort reform sounds good. However, one influential paper [1] cites the prices of medical goods and services in the United States as the dominant driver of expenditures, despite below median utilization rates. This seems to be the dominant view among the relevant experts. A 2012 international survey of health insurance groups seems to corroborate this, indicating that the cost of virtually every major procedure is significantly higher in the U.S. than any OECD country. [2]

I don't know that your proposal would deal with the problem of prices. It would increase utilization rates but perhaps not drive prices down much, leading to a net increase in expenditures.

A proposal that mitigated prices (as public options across OECD nations do, enabling such nations to spend much less) wouldn't be in your self-interest as a physician. Would you oppose any proposal that was against your self-interest, or are there any models that you could stomach if they were good for the nation?

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12757275

[2] http://hushp.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/downloadable_files/IFHP%202012%20Comparative%20Price%20Report.pdf

[Coach is Back!]

Liberal tactics..

1. Lie your ass off

2. Demonize, because defending a liberal issue is impossible

3. Support and sympathize with terrorist

4. Shread the constitution unless it benefits them

5. Blame Bush

6. Keep borrowing because we all know it keeps us out of debt

7. Defend Obama under any circumstances

8. If you don't agree with them, then obviously you're racist

Add to this if I missed anything. I'm sure I did.

[avxo]

Sensible reform to tort law is a must. It's a huge factor in the cost of care today. And it's important beyond just healthcare. We need tort reform yesterday.

Liberal tactics..

1. Lie your ass off

2. Demonize, because defending a liberal issue is impossible

3. Support and sympathize with terrorist

4. Shread the constitution unless it benefits them

5. Blame Bush

6. Keep borrowing because we all know it keeps us out of debt

7. Defend Obama under any circumstances

8. If you don't agree with them, then obviously you're racist

Add to this if I missed anything. I'm sure I did.

Quiet Joey. The adults are talking.

[Natural Man]

as predicted, a last minute bullshit agreement that changes absolutely nothing to the state of decay already reached. Just playing scare. How long will this grotesque farce last noone knows. Fact is the average joe while thinking "everything is fine we ve been saved by our "elites" he s getting poorer by the day. You have to stick it slowly to the common people, for them not to understand what s going on. Good news, politicians and megacorps bosses are very patient individuals, this is how they got at the top of the pyramid.

 One day china will have enough of worthless dollar, but politicians want someone else to deal with the hot potato and start the whole debacle. Good argument for a war.

[Coach is Back!]

Sensible reform to tort law is a must. It's a huge factor in the cost of care today. And it's important beyond just healthcare. We need tort reform yesterday.

Quiet Joey. The adults are talking.

As long as we understand that little list is dead on and I've been rarely wrong since Obamas first term. Continue.

[Voice of Doom]

There is a single statist party masquerading as two.  Anything that increases the power of the federal government, whether that is through increased military, increased homeland surveillance or increases in dependent citizens will always pass and become "law".  This is the way of empires.

[Thin Lizzy]

I live near a few major metropolitan hospitals. Everyday I see fat, old people, who have never exercised or practiced proper nutrition in their lives, pile onto buses and go to the doctor, not because of sickness, but as a social activity. The Doctor examines these things and says "You're getting old. Come back in two weeks."

Now if the buses were to drive into the East River, instead of the Hospital, a lot of money could be saved.

There is a single statist party masquerading as two.  Anything that increases the power of the federal government, whether that is through increased military, increased homeland surveillance or increases in dependent citizens will always pass and become "law".  This is the way of empires.

You basically have the Socialist Party and the Party that pays lip service to limited government.

[avxo]

As long as we understand that little list is dead on and I've been rarely wrong since Obamas first term. Continue.

Coming from the manchild who believes that Obama was born in Kenya, thinks nothing of the fact that the birth certificate he claims proves it was issued by a country which did not yet exist at the time of issuance and refuses to address arguments which demolish the copy-pastes and the meltdowns, this is just rich.

Did you have way too much today or something?

[jude2]

I just can't get over the fact that u can sign up for Obamacare, without verifying your income. All you have to do is lie and the government will subsidize the insurance for u. Same as the free cell phone scam.

[nicorulez]

Thanks for your comments!

OK, tort reform sounds good. However, one influential paper [1] cites the prices of medical goods and services in the United States as the dominant driver of expenditures, despite below median utilization rates. This seems to be the dominant view among the relevant experts. A 2012 international survey of health insurance groups seems to corroborate this, indicating that the cost of virtually every major procedure is significantly higher in the U.S. than any OECD country. [2]

I don't know that your proposal would deal with the problem of prices. It would increase utilization rates but perhaps not drive prices down much, leading to a net increase in expenditures.

A proposal that mitigated prices (as public options across OECD nations do, enabling such nations to spend much less) wouldn't be in your self-interest as a physician. Would you oppose any proposal that was against your self-interest, or are there any models that you could stomach if they were good for the nation?

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12757275

[2] http://hushp.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/downloadable_files/IFHP%202012%20Comparative%20Price%20Report.pdf

The articles you present discuss exorbitant prices for medical services and pharmacy. If you look at a typical hospital bill, the physician fee is the one that is usually in the hundreds of dollars. The true cost is the mark up the hospital charges for antibiotics, IVF's, anesthesia, room bill, ER visit, etc. It is the hospitals that drive the cost up. A CT scan costs thousands of dollars. The physician fee to read is a few hundred if that. Thus, if true change were to be afforded you don't go after the overworked physicians providing services; you go after fat cat hospitals like HCA, etc that make a fortune. They excessively charge those who have insurance to subsidize those that do not.

Also, you act as if physicians should compromise their value for the good of society. Last I heard, lawyers never sacrifice anything. Liberal politicians won't sacrifice their own medical benefits for a busted plan that provides a fraction of the coverage but for which they passed unanimously without a single Republican vote. Go to a grocery store and ask for a free handout.

My way would work. Give physicians, who on the front line, reprieve from spurious lawsuits. Have the government put resources toward primary preventive care like cheaper generic meds, reasonable radiology reports, and tax write offs for physicians and companies that provide services. Charge a minimum fee based on wages. Encourage cessation of disgusting habits like smoking.

Obama is so short sited he has to bludgeon the American people with a plan that is doomed to failure. A grade schooler could have thought it out better. The liberal media has eaten it up without giving a conscious thought to the enormity of its pricing structure. I could go on.

Ok Syntax, why should I like the ACA again.

[Mr Nobody]

We are back in business for a few days.

[Necrosis]

The articles you present discuss exorbitant prices for medical services and pharmacy. If you look at a typical hospital bill, the physician fee is the one that is usually in the hundreds of dollars. The true cost is the mark up the hospital charges for antibiotics, IVF's, anesthesia, room bill, ER visit, etc. It is the hospitals that drive the cost up. A CT scan costs thousands of dollars. The physician fee to read is a few hundred if that. Thus, if true change were to be afforded you don't go after the overworked physicians providing services; you go after fat cat hospitals like HCA, etc that make a fortune. They excessively charge those who have insurance to subsidize those that do not.

Also, you act as if physicians should compromise their value for the good of society. Last I heard, lawyers never sacrifice anything. Liberal politicians won't sacrifice their own medical benefits for a busted plan that provides a fraction of the coverage but for which they passed unanimously without a single Republican vote. Go to a grocery store and ask for a free handout.

My way would work. Give physicians, who on the front line, reprieve from spurious lawsuits. Have the government put resources toward primary preventive care like cheaper generic meds, reasonable radiology reports, and tax write offs for physicians and companies that provide services. Charge a minimum fee based on wages. Encourage cessation of disgusting habits like smoking.

Obama is so short sited he has to bludgeon the American people with a plan that is doomed to failure. A grade schooler could have thought it out better. The liberal media has eaten it up without giving a conscious thought to the enormity of its pricing structure. I could go on.

Ok Syntax, why should I like the ACA again.

You shouldn't , it's was meant to help the patients, not the doctors per se. I understand what you are saying, and I don't disagree, non-compliance and poor lifestyle choices are the etiology of most concerns. I don't see your rationale on how it is doomed to failure? I don't think anyone can quite predict it's outcome yet as it is a novel piece of American history. I would say that in theory it can work, that much is obvious, will it in practice remains to be seen.

[dr.chimps]

I shut the government down and all I got was this lousy GOP T-shirt.

[Mr Nobody]

I shut the government down and all I got was this lousy GOP T-shirt.

Coach is involved with this.