NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio Guarantees Comprehensive Health Care for All

[Conker]

You are aware that the American healthcare system is over 60% controlled by the US government. That’s why it’s so inefficient.

We have a government controlled program, Medicare, which is financed to the tune of $1 trillion a year, larger than the GDP of most countries. Not surprisingly, it’s insolvent.

Europeans think that the American healthcare system is this free market wild west when it’s anything but.

from what I've read medicare is supposedly more efficient than the private part of your healthcare system.

[chaos]

from what I've read medicare is supposedly more efficient than the private part of your healthcare system.

Bwahahahaahaaaaa!!!! Medicare is a fucking mess. I know people on it, horrible fucking mess.

[Soul Crusher]

You are aware that the American healthcare system is over 60% controlled by the US government. That’s why it’s so inefficient.

We have a government controlled program, Medicare, which is financed to the tune of $1 trillion a year, larger than the GDP of most countries. Not surprisingly, it’s insolvent.

Europeans think that the American healthcare system is this free market wild west when it’s anything but.

Accurate

[Conker]

Bwahahahaahaaaaa!!!! Medicare is a fucking mess. I know people on it, horrible fucking mess.

oh well if you know "people on it", that's definitive proof then that's it's less efficient than insurance funded healthcare  


"Facts: Medicare spending will soar in the years ahead as the number of seniors grows, but its per-capita growth is slower than private health insurance - and it is getting better. “We may be reaching the point now where Medicare healthcare expenses are growing no more quickly than growth of the economy overall,” said John Rother, chief executive officer of the National Coalition on Health Care (NCHC). “That’s important, but it might as well be a state secret as far as the public and Congress goes.”
The average annual per-capita spending growth rate through 2019 is projected at 3.1 percent for Medicare, compared with 4.9 percent for private insurance plans, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. The 3.1 percent projection even includes higher payments to doctors as part of a long-term solution to the long-running problem of the sustainable growth rate (SGR) used under current law to control Medicare spending on physician services."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-miller-medicare-idUSBRE87E15N20120815


there's quite a lot of other data that says medicaire is more cost effective. the administratitive costs are apparently a fraction of that with  insurance cos.

[chaos]

oh well if you know "people on it", that's definitive proof then that's it's less efficient than insurance funded healthcare  


"Facts: Medicare spending will soar in the years ahead as the number of seniors grows, but its per-capita growth is slower than private health insurance - and it is getting better. “We may be reaching the point now where Medicare healthcare expenses are growing no more quickly than growth of the economy overall,” said John Rother, chief executive officer of the National Coalition on Health Care (NCHC). “That’s important, but it might as well be a state secret as far as the public and Congress goes.”
The average annual per-capita spending growth rate through 2019 is projected at 3.1 percent for Medicare, compared with 4.9 percent for private insurance plans, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. The 3.1 percent projection even includes higher payments to doctors as part of a long-term solution to the long-running problem of the sustainable growth rate (SGR) used under current law to control Medicare spending on physician services."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-miller-medicare-idUSBRE87E15N20120815


there's quite a lot of other data that says medicaire is more cost effective. the administratitive costs are apparently a fraction of that with  insurance cos.

Well, you read it in a liberal rag mag from 5k miles (8k kilometers) away. Must be true.

BTW, it's a fucking mess. Try talking to people that actually use the product.

[Conker]

Well, you read it in a liberal rag mag from 5k miles (8k kilometers) away. Must be true.

BTW, it's a fucking mess. Try talking to people that actually use the product.

yes anecdotal evidence always trumps verified data on matters like this. no disrespect but I could live 20k miles away and still know more regarding the actual facts and figs of what is going on in your or any other country.

because you are the typical sheep and follower. you can't think for yourself. you've been told universal healthcare is "socialist" . so without actually bothering to look at the subject in any detail, you simply go along with how you're meant to think as a "righty" ...

[mazrim]

Medicare in a great position right now... Latest report is it is done by 2026.

http://www.wmal.com/2018/06/05/trustees-report-warns-medicare-finances-worsening/

You are wrong on this matter, gun control, and many others, Conk.

[Conker]

Medicare in a great position right now... Latest report is it is done by 2026.

http://www.wmal.com/2018/06/05/trustees-report-warns-medicare-finances-worsening/

You are wrong on this matter, gun control, and many others, Conk.

did you even bother reading the article you've posted?

it makes zero mention of inefficiency being the problem. it says the ageing population and rising health care costs are the reason medicare is running out of money.

there is plenty of data out there that states medicare and medicaid are both more efficient than insurance based cover.

"Between 2007 and 2023, per enrollee spending for private insurance is expected to increase by 104%, compared to a 63% increase for both Medicaid and Medicare. In 2013, per enrollee spending for Medicaid for non-disabled, non-elderly adults was $4,391, compared to more than $5,500 for people receiving private insurance through their employers. Additionally, per enrollee spending is often the best indicator when comparing public and private coverage.

Surprisingly, Medicaid has managed to keep costs down, even while covering lots of the most medically needy people in the country. "

https://benestream.com/2015/08/11/medicaid-is-more-cost-efficient-than-you-think/

[Yamcha]

Conker has joined the party!

[Thin Lizzy]

It’s a strawman argument. Medicare and Medicaid are compulsory programs. We have to put into them whether we want to or not. The private sector doesn’t have that luxury and actually have to compete for the dollars that are left.

Same drill with Social Security. The dollars that get sucked out of the economy has a crowding out effect for other potential retirement programs in the private sector.

They are both Ponzi schemes, Medicare in particular in which recipients take out three times what they put in. Obviously that’s not going to be sustainable for much longer.

[SOMEPARTS]

from what I've read medicare is supposedly more efficient than the private part of your healthcare system.

Right, that's why everybody who hasn't been on govt benefits their whole lives has supplemental coverage in addition to medicare.

[Conker]

It’s a strawman argument. Medicare and Medicaid are compulsory programs. We have to put into them whether we want to or not. The private sector doesn’t have that luxury and actually have to compete for the dollars that are left.

Same drill with Social Security. The dollars that get sucked out of the economy has a crowding out effect for other potential retirement programs in the private sector.

They are both Ponzi schemes, Medicare in particular in which recipients take out three times what they put in. Obviously that’s not going to be sustainable for much longer.

lol. whether or not it's compulsary or not is completely irrelevant.

the bottom line is (if the data is to be believed) medicaid/care per capita costs a fair amount less than private healthcare. why should "competing for the dollars" mean higher costs per capita?

advocates of private healthcare say it should be the complete opposite of that. private enterprise is supposed to increase efficiency.

paying health insurance (for all intents and purposes) is basically a tax. you're not paying for healthcare at the point of use, you're just pooling your money in the same way that medicare is funded. the only difference is with the insurance companies , their shareholders take a nice fat wedge out of the pool.

[chaos]

Poor conker, just doesn't get it. He still believes everything the liberal media says.

[Thin Lizzy]

lol. whether or not it's compulsary or not is completely irrelevant.

the bottom line is (if the data is to be believed) medicaid/care per capita costs a fair amount less than private healthcare. why should "competing for the dollars" mean higher costs per capita?

advocates of private healthcare say it should be the complete opposite of that. private enterprise is supposed to increase efficiency.

paying health insurance (for all intents and purposes) is basically a tax. you're not paying for healthcare at the point of use, you're just pooling your money in the same way that medicare is funded. the only difference is with the insurance companies , their shareholders take a nice fat wedge out of the pool.

A government monopoly on a product with guaranteed income as a result of taxation is not an advantage?

Poor conker, just doesn't get it. He still believes everything the liberal media says.

Liberals talk a great game but here’s what happens when their policies are implemented unchecked. NPR is a very liberal news source



San Francisco Squalor: City Streets Strewn With Trash, Needles And Human Feces : NPR

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/01/634626538/san-francisco-squalor-city-streets-strewn-with-trash-needles-and-human-feces

[Conker]

A government monopoly on a product with guaranteed income as a result of taxation is not an advantage?

what are you saying? that medicare/caid has an unfair advantage over the insurance companies?

[chaos]

what are you saying? that medicare/caid has an unfair advantage over the insurance companies?

Depends on which part of medicare you're talking about.

[Conker]

Poor conker, just doesn't get it. He still believes everything the liberal media says.

i don't fall into any box, liberal or conservative. i judge each issue on it's given merits. i'm a strong believer in capitalism and private enterprise. it's the system that fits best with human nature.

but it's clear to me that some services are just better off in public ownership, the police force, the education system. healthcare...

[Conker]

Depends on which part of medicare you're talking about.

medicare as a whole.

[chaos]

medicare as a whole.

This is part of the problem. Medicare comes in at least 4 parts, based on what someone can afford, that's the care they can get.

[Thin Lizzy]

This is part of the problem. Medicare comes in at least 4 parts, based on what someone can afford, that's the care they can get.

It’s all just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. People are taking out three times what they put in. And we’re just starting to see the baby boomers getting to the Medicare age and they’re going to really send it over the edge. This is the smoking/ tv watching/ bad food generation. They’re in horrible shape. It’s probably going to go bust sooner than expected.

[Humble Narcissist]

It’s all just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. People are taking out three times what they put in. And we’re just starting to see the baby boomers getting to the Medicare age and they’re going to really send it over the edge. This is the smoking/ tv watching/ bad food generation. They’re in horrible shape. It’s probably going to go bust sooner than expected.

Those boomers are also going to be dying as well.  They don't live forever.

[Thin Lizzy]

Those boomers are also going to be dying as well.  They don't live forever.

A large percentage of the costs are accrued during the last six months of life. At the end of the day it’s a numbers game. There’s more going out then there is coming in, and it’s only going to get worse.

[Humble Narcissist]

A large percentage of the costs are accrued during the last six months of life. At the end of the day it’s a numbers game. There’s more going out then there is coming in, and it’s only going to get worse.

My point is that boomers are the largest generation and they are starting to die off.  After they are gone it should ease up a little on cost if we can weather the storm.

[Conker]

"Sometimes it takes just a couple of numbers to clarify a huge, complex issue--In this case, what to do about Medicare. Medicare costs are up 400% since 1969--scary, right? But private health insurance premiums in the same period are up 700%--nearly twice as scary."

https://www.consumerwatchdog.org/blog/private-insurance-vs-medicare-truth-numbers


there's tons of data that shows medicare/caid is way more cost effective than insurance based cover. the majority of the rest of the 1st world has a universal medicare style system and spends way less per capita on healthcare than the US, and everyone has cover.

on top of that the US healthcare system ranks poorly against these other nations, despite the extra cost.

i estimate that in about 100 years or so the penny will finally will drop. one thing i've learn't from this board is although the US probably has the smartest people in the world(at the top). the masses are thick as fk, especially those on the right.

[Thin Lizzy]

Medicare costs are subject to price controls with the burden being passed to the private sector.



http://pnhp.org/news/making-medicare-prices-universal-as-an-isolated-policy-for-reform/

According to a study by the Congressional Budget Office, the price for a one-day hospital stay is 89 percent higher when charged to commercial insurance plans and their customers than when a Medicare patient stays in the same bed for the same amount of time. Overall, the discounts Medicare and Medicaid receive are in the 20 to 40 percent range.


*************

It’s the same drill with rent control. The cost of non-rent controlled housing becomes inflated.