PBW Tonight: Vince Taylor and Wayne DeMilia Statements

[jameswdmb]

wow...tough break for mandy...i am guessing that she is not taking this so well (given her post about her current situation)

[MikeThaMachine]

240 your logic with the "people want things they can relate to" is fucking bullshit. FACT Bob Sapp is a major star in asia yet he is a African American, Gunter is very popular here yet he is German, Arnold was the most popular BBer in his time (world wide) yet he was Austrian, American movie stars (A-List stars) do lots of comericals in Japan but almost never in the U.S.. I could go on with more but i think this makes my point. A national hero (ex. Samir Bannout) is one thing but to take the look of someone and translate that into populatrity is retarded.

[240 is Back]

240 your logic with the "people want things they can relate to" is fucking bullshit. FACT Bob Sapp is a major star in asia yet he is a African American, Gunter is very popular here yet he is German, Arnold was the most popular BBer in his time (world wide) yet he was Austrian, American movie stars (A-List stars) do lots of comericals in Japan but almost never in the U.S.. I could go on with more but i think this makes my point. A national hero (ex. Samir Bannout) is one thing but to take the look of someone and translate that into populatrity is retarded.

I respect your opinion.  Turn on the Lifetime channel.  You'll see frumpy white women in the Sears commercials.  Turn on BET.  You'll see trendy black youths in the McD commercial.  I didn't make this up.  Marketers choose models and actors which portray the ideal they are trying to sell.  Of course you'll have stars that transcend this mold, that go BEYOND racial and socioeconomical lines- and THEY ARE THE BIG STARS of their sport/realm.  Michael Jordan.  Eminem.  They crossover existing lines.

But all things equal, a white man is more likely to buy a magazine with a white man on the cover than any other race.  A black man is more likely to purchase a magazine with a black man on the cover over any other race.  Of course, we're all more likely to purchase a magazine cover with a hot girl on the cover...

[Lift Studios]

But all things equal, a white man is more likely to buy a magazine with a white man on the cover than any other race.  A black man is more likely to purchase a magazine with a black man on the cover over any other race.

I don't buy your logic here for a second. Which one of your MBA books are you pulling this from?

[MikeThaMachine]

I respect your opinion.  Turn on the Lifetime channel.  You'll see frumpy white women in the Sears commercials.  Turn on BET.  You'll see trendy black youths in the McD commercial.  I didn't make this up.  Marketers choose models and actors which portray the ideal they are trying to sell.  Of course you'll have stars that transcend this mold, that go BEYOND racial and socioeconomical lines- and THEY ARE THE BIG STARS of their sport/realm.  Michael Jordan.  Eminem.  They crossover existing lines.

But all things equal, a white man is more likely to buy a magazine with a white man on the cover than any other race.  A black man is more likely to purchase a magazine with a black man on the cover over any other race.  Of course, we're all more likely to purchase a magazine cover with a hot girl on the cover...

Yeah but i believe we are talking about the PDI and it's marketing of their BBers.

[sgt. d]

I respect your opinion.  Turn on the Lifetime channel.  You'll see frumpy white women in the Sears commercials.  Turn on BET.  You'll see trendy black youths in the McD commercial.  I didn't make this up.  Marketers choose models and actors which portray the ideal they are trying to sell.  Of course you'll have stars that transcend this mold, that go BEYOND racial and socioeconomical lines- and THEY ARE THE BIG STARS of their sport/realm.  Michael Jordan.  Eminem.  They crossover existing lines.

But all things equal, a white man is more likely to buy a magazine with a white man on the cover than any other race.  A black man is more likely to purchase a magazine with a black man on the cover over any other race.  Of course, we're all more likely to purchase a magazine cover with a hot girl on the cover...

this is by far the dumbest thing i have ever read on here

way to go rob zircoolio

[240 is Back]

I don't buy your logic here for a second. Which one of your MBA books are you pulling this from?

That approach was presented, along with many others.  It's not a race thing, not a money thing, not a cultural thing... rather, the school of thought in which you attempt to create your marketing materials which will keep the attention of the prospect for the longest amount of time, by delivering something with which the viewer is most familiar- whether it be a white kid, a poor kid, a kid with a nice shirt, etc.  Whatever matches the viewer most.  Responsible marketers will keep this in mind- but at the same time be more cognizant of how the prospect views him/herself, which obviously affects the decision to buy.

PREDICTING CONSUMER RESPONSE to marketing efforts is not just a numbers game. With growing diversity in the U.S. population and an economy that spans cultural and national borders, advertising is often segmented to target specific minority demographics. But to define a target group simply by percentage of population or other statistics such as income or education level mistakenly ignores consumers’ perception of their identity and status in the larger social context. And it is that perception of social status that can affect how an individual responds to images in an ad campaign.

http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/bmag/sbsm0211/ideas_mktg_demographics.shtml

[240 is Back]

my point was that that PDI's athletes may not be IFBB caliber in terms of physiques, but its ability to appeal to many groups on a global basis was a strength which could allow it to succeed.

[MikeThaMachine]

my point was that that PDI's athletes may not be IFBB caliber in terms of physiques, but its ability to appeal to many groups on a global basis was a strength which could allow it to succeed.

That's the retarded part, right there ^^^

[Lift Studios]

That approach was presented, along with many others.  It's not a race thing, not a money thing, not a cultural thing... rather, the school of thought in which you attempt to create your marketing materials which will keep the attention of the prospect for the longest amount of time, by delivering something with which the viewer is most familiar- whether it be a white kid, a poor kid, a kid with a nice shirt, etc.  Whatever matches the viewer most.  Responsible marketers will keep this in mind- but at the same time be more cognizant of how the prospect views him/herself, which obviously affects the decision to buy.

PREDICTING CONSUMER RESPONSE to marketing efforts is not just a numbers game. With growing diversity in the U.S. population and an economy that spans cultural and national borders, advertising is often segmented to target specific minority demographics. But to define a target group simply by percentage of population or other statistics such as income or education level mistakenly ignores consumers’ perception of their identity and status in the larger social context. And it is that perception of social status that can affect how an individual responds to images in an ad campaign.

http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/bmag/sbsm0211/ideas_mktg_demographics.shtml

Dude nice term paper but let's get real.

You're claiming the PDI guys are more marketable then any of the guys in the top 5 of an IFBB show. What are you going to market with anyone of these guys and why should anyone in the general public care? Vinny G has more hair then Bill Willmore and less freaky of a body, okay now what? I'm going to buy my can of soda because of it? No way.

[thisiskeith12]

Somehow this thread went from a recap of a radio show to a marketing debate. And once again, 240 feels he can offer his expertise.

The fact is, the PDI needs to plan and act better than they have if they wanted to succeed. Vince Taylor and Lee Priest are going to be enough. The dropoff is STEEP after those two no matter how 240 tries to hide it. I'm not saying I wouldn't like for it to succeed and bring more opportunities to bodybuilding. Competitors should get better treatment and better opportunities and not conform to the monopolist IFBB/Weider Bank. I get the feeling Wayne has his hands in other business ventures that are more important.

[240 is Back]

Dude nice term paper but let's get real.

You're claiming the PDI guys are more marketable then any of the guys in the top 5 of an IFBB show. What are you going to market with anyone of these guys and why should anyone in the general public care? Vinny G has more hair then Bill Willmore and less freaky of a body, okay now what? I'm going to buy my can of soda because of it? No way.

LOl ok, ok...  You're an educated buyer.  you know BBing.  You know marketing.  And you know Bbing is a very very small market.  

I'm talking mass marketing, globally, for major publications- dimples and hair are more important than an extra 50 pounds of muscle.  Obviously a Coleman is going to pack in 100x the ppl into a GNC that a Frey will.  Very specific market, buyer knows the stars and what they want.  I'm referring to any product you're trying to sell to a larger group than the MD reader base.  Diet food, health cereal, I dunno, you know what I mean- anything you want to sell to a large audience, you're going to need a salesman that the target can relate to.

i wasn't trying to get into a major debate here- just noting that the PDI should have some serious ability to pull a crowd in Eur, since many of its guys are athletes.  perhaps if I had made it about nationalism, it would have made more sense.  It's way more fun to root for a World Cup team from your country than a better team from another country.  Make any sense?

[thisiskeith12]

Where do you get off that Coleman is marketable?!

[240 is Back]

Where do you get off that Coleman is marketable?!

in the small niche Bbing market, Coleman is gold.


wait, were you being sarcastic?

[thisiskeith12]

in the small niche Bbing market, Coleman is gold.


wait, were you being sarcastic?

No...

Okay, maybe so for the freak lovers with an IQ of a 6th grader, but the fact you limit your marketing and not taking advantage of the potentials is unbelievably dumb and makes me question how the Weiders got this far.

[Lift Studios]

Aight finally you speak some sense in this thread. Yes I agree about the nationalism in large part. Hidetada Yamagishi is a good example of that considering he is the only Japanese IFBB Pro and has a huge following in Japan. Your logic on the European guys being bigger in Europe I can see. However, there are plenty of IFBB pros who can be salesmen and sell to the same audience you're talking about, but most of them are too focused on competing and not about marketing themselves.

In my opinion, the one thing Vince Taylor hasn't done is market himself wisely in this whole debacle. This is going to be a PR nightmare for him. Which Vince will you get on any given day? The one who says on video he didn't sign a contract or the one who sends a statement saying he did but is competing in the Mr. Olympia. The guy has a right to do whatever he wants but seriously get with someone and get your story straight and stop complaining about being a broke ass bodybuilder and changing your stories.

LOl ok, ok...  You're an educated buyer.  you know BBing.  You know marketing.  And you know Bbing is a very very small market. 

I'm talking mass marketing, globally, for major publications- dimples and hair are more important than an extra 50 pounds of muscle.  Obviously a Coleman is going to pack in 100x the ppl into a GNC that a Frey will.  Very specific market, buyer knows the stars and what they want.  I'm referring to any product you're trying to sell to a larger group than the MD reader base.  Diet food, health cereal, I dunno, you know what I mean- anything you want to sell to a large audience, you're going to need a salesman that the target can relate to.

i wasn't trying to get into a major debate here- just noting that the PDI should have some serious ability to pull a crowd in Eur, since many of its guys are athletes.  perhaps if I had made it about nationalism, it would have made more sense.  It's way more fun to root for a World Cup team from your country than a better team from another country.  Make any sense?

[240 is Back]

No...

Okay, maybe so for the freak lovers with an IQ of a 6th grader, but the fact you limit your marketing and not taking advantage of the potentials is unbelievably dumb and makes me question how the Weiders got this far.

IMO, the weiders and magazines actually do it.  Gunter hasn't won a thing since 02, but he's had quite a few covers.  There's been a lot of guys who have won a lot, and had far fewer covers.  They're not as good looking, or they don't appeal to the buying audience, and therefore they don't sell as many covers.  

Shit, why is arnold on any cover since 1980?

[240 is Back]

Aight finally you speak some sense in this thread. Yes I agree about the nationalism in large part. Hidetada Yamagishi is a good example of that considering he is the only Japanese IFBB Pro and has a huge following in Japan. Your logic on the European guys being bigger in Europe I can see. However, there are plenty of IFBB pros who can be salesmen and sell to the same audience you're talking about, but most of them are too focused on competing and not about marketing themselves.

In my opinion, the one thing Vince Taylor hasn't done is market himself wisely in this whole debacle. This is going to be a PR nightmare for him. Which Vince will you get on any given day? The one who says on video he didn't sign a contract or the one who sends a statement saying he did but is competing in the Mr. Olympia. The guy has a right to do whatever he wants but seriously get with someone and get your story straight and stop complaining about being a broke ass bodybuilder and changing your stories.

yeah, he sounds like a pretty confused guy who still could end up on the NOC stage, depending on how heavy his wallet is that week and what is being promised to him.  Now I have to wonder how insane it would be if Vince blew off the N Americans and showed up at the NOC lol... wishful thinking perhaps, but that'd be a heck of a story.

[thisiskeith12]

So why are those guys still winning?

[Tre]

Vince clowned himself on this whole situation. He said on video that he didn't sign anything - now says in a statement that he signed a contract.

If you're a supplement company do you really want this guy promoting your product?

Yes.

And if you're a promoter, you want him competing in or guest posing at your show.

And if you're federation, then you want him as a member. 

[Tre]

That group of nobodies is way more marketable than the top 5 at any IFBB show.

No one is 'marketing' anyone (with the exception of the Craig & Kelly profiteers). 

[Tre]

240 isn't blowing smoke here - the growth of Univision in this country is rock-solid evidence to back up his claims about how products are marketed to specific groups.

Having said that, what he's arguing with you guys about has NO relevanace to the current, past, of (near) future state of IFBB bodybuilding. 

Kim Lyons (yes, the same one who lives with Gunther) is going to co-host one of NBC's most popular shows this fall, "Biggest Loser".  She's replacing Jillian Michaels who used that show to become pretty much a household name in the U.S. 

Yet, when it was announced in TV Guide that she'd been selected, there was no mention at all of the IFBB.  In fact, the article stated only that she was a GALAXY 'fitness pro'.  Does Galaxy even exist anymore?

Will the IFBB find a way to capitalize on her instant reality show stardom?  Doubtful.

[rocket]

Yes I will agree with 240 here also, not necessarily about PDI guys but there is no suprise about using certain native factors to bring products to the market.  Anybody who disagrees with that is likely simple arguing for the sake of it.

[onlyme]

240 your logic with the "people want things they can relate to" is fucking bullshit. FACT Bob Sapp is a major star in asia yet he is a African American, Gunter is very popular here yet he is German, Arnold was the most popular BBer in his time (world wide) yet he was Austrian, American movie stars (A-List stars) do lots of comericals in Japan but almost never in the U.S.. I could go on with more but i think this makes my point. A national hero (ex. Samir Bannout) is one thing but to take the look of someone and translate that into populatrity is retarded.

The reason US stars do commercials in Japan is because they get paid outrageous amount of dough when no way in hell would they get even close to that here.  I know several guys who have done commercials in Japan for literally a cash payment of one million dollars.  Chuck Norris does commercials there all the time.  IN fact if I remeber right he did a commerical for Scarab Race Boats there for a million plus a boat.  Roger Clemens has done a few commercials over there.  So has my old friend Cy Young award winner Mike Scott.  The japanese defntiely know how to pay.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

I respect your opinion.  Turn on the Lifetime channel.  You'll see frumpy white women in the Sears commercials.  Turn on BET.  You'll see trendy black youths in the McD commercial.  I didn't make this up.  Marketers choose models and actors which portray the ideal they are trying to sell.  Of course you'll have stars that transcend this mold, that go BEYOND racial and socioeconomical lines- and THEY ARE THE BIG STARS of their sport/realm.  Michael Jordan.  Eminem.  They crossover existing lines.

But all things equal, a white man is more likely to buy a magazine with a white man on the cover than any other race.  A black man is more likely to purchase a magazine with a black man on the cover over any other race.  Of course, we're all more likely to purchase a magazine cover with a hot girl on the cover...

Are you sure you have an MBA? 

That's the most racist and incorrect logic I've ever heard.  When I shop for magazines, I pick up MD whether it has Branch Warren or David Henry on it.  People buy magazines with subjects that relate to them, not who's on the cover.

Sigh......