Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[gib]

i don't own GBTC but i have looked at it a few times. It is an interesting investment and i do think there is significant upside potential on normalization of the ETF structure in the US. I do have a little MSTR but my main exposure is directly via bitcoin itself.

[gib]

Not in this market. Crypto, bitcoin (my original post was about bitcoin) and gbtc are doing nothing. They are all still 50% plus off their highs

Meanwhile tech stocks have or are close to hitting all time highs. Of course you need to know what you're doing in those markets to take advantage of it.

As the discussion is about current performance then crypto, btc, gbtc are all poor performers and have done nothing. That's why I say wait until a bull market/cycle top rather than declaring any wins now over who currently holds the shiniest piece of shit.

Comments such as these are useless as the are time-frame specific. I could revert telling you that BTC is up 14% on the month, 80% on the half year, and 84% YTD.

The key point is that we need to look at the long term trend, and long term BTC has outperformed all major asset classes. (Yes a few random shit coins will be created and for short periods pop and disappear. Good luck making an money on those, unless you are the creator/scam-meister of such a coin).

[Flexacon]

Comments such as these are useless as the are time-frame specific. I could revert telling you that BTC is up 14% on the month, 80% on the half year, and 84% YTD.

The key point is that we need to look at the long term trend, and long term BTC has outperformed all major asset classes. (Yes a few random shit coins will be created and for short periods pop and disappear. Good luck making an money on those, unless you are the creator/scam-meister of such a coin).

Most of the recent discussion has been time specific as was already alluded, specifically from Nov/December 2022 until now, so please keep up. Looking at the relative performance of other assets in this period and compared to what crypto assets have done historically tells you that any price improvement in this period are really not worth talking about.

I'm actually for the most part saying the same thing as you and that's look longer term, and wait until at least another bull run/ cycle top in crypto, btc, gbtc etc before we start a dick measuring contest (no homo)

Don't need luck or to be a creator/scam-meister to make money on "shit coins" though, it's more timing and/or getting in early. Have you already forgot about the coin that x10 in a few weeks that I told you to buy last cycle after you wanted to argue that it's not possible to predict these things?

I'll tell you what I'll do, at some point I'll PM the names of 3, maybe 4 "shit coins". I know you won't front run me as you don't believe in them, but you'll see again if it was luck or not.

[Griffith]

Comments such as these are useless as the are time-frame specific. I could revert telling you that BTC is up 14% on the month, 80% on the half year, and 84% YTD.

The key point is that we need to look at the long term trend, and long term BTC has outperformed all major asset classes. (Yes a few random shit coins will be created and for short periods pop and disappear. Good luck making an money on those, unless you are the creator/scam-meister of such a coin).

Ethereum outperformed Bitcoin.

ETH has been around since 2015.

[obsidian]

Ethereum outperformed Bitcoin.

ETH has been around since 2015.

ETH outperformed BTC over the past 3 years. However BTC has outperformed ETH the past 5 years. BNB and Doge outperformed both ETH and BTC that past 3 and 5 years.

These numbers all depend on when the snapshot is taken. Of all cryptos BTC has gone up the most since it's inception. It went from less than $1 to a high of almost $70k. I don't think even alts like Doge have gone up by the same magnitude.

[obsidian]

Buy any unregistered security at your peril. There have been so many warnings, so really only yourself to blame if ETH gets specifically called and prosecuted by the SEC (either those facilitating the trade of it or the Eth Foundation itself.

The SEC would have to prove in court that ETH is a security. It does not meet the criteria of a security IMO. If ETH is a security then Baseball cards would also have to be declared a security. And Bitcoin. Playing devils advocate, an argument could also be made that you and Michael Saylor invested in Bitcoin with the expectation of a profit but without doing any work yourself to maintain or develop the blockchain.

[Flexacon]

The SEC would have to prove in court that ETH is a security. It does not meet the criteria of a security IMO. If ETH is a security then Baseball cards would also have to be declared a security. And Bitcoin. Playing devils advocate, an argument could also be made that you and Michael Saylor invested in Bitcoin with the expectation of a profit but without doing any work yourself to maintain or develop the blockchain.

ETH is not a security and has pretty much been cleared behind closed doors otherwise they wouldn't have launched this exchange last week.

"EDX Markets Launches with Support for BTC, ETH, LTC and BCH Spot Trading

The digital assets marketplace was founded by some of the leading financial services companies including Charles Schwab, Citadel Securities, Fidelity Digital AssetsSM, Paradigm, Sequoia Capital, and Virtu Financial."

https://www.nftgators.com/edx-markets-launches-with-support-for-btc-eth-ltc-and-bch-spot-trading/


ETH staking as a service was the only thing the SEC went after.

Gib for some reason is devolving back  to all  his old arguments, most of which have been have been incorrect or inaccurate. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts to talk about the ETH merge failing again or even that it will never happen 

[Mayday]

Ethereum outperformed Bitcoin.

ETH has been around since 2015.

BTC did 2.5x from peak to peak

ETH did 2.2x from peak to peak

Why are people bragging ETH is better? it got nuked to Hades in 2019 as a result of it being a shitcoin and therefore had a larger multiple on its way to a lower peak to peak performance…..

Not only did ETH have a lower performing peak to peak vs BTC But it also did less on ETHBTC ratio than the previous cycle……

A worse peak. A worse performance vs BTC.

I’m with the BTC maxis on this one.

[Mayday]

Oh and for those who did not know, some of the main crypto data houses revised their formulas so they now show as predicting the 2021 peak (which they didn’t).

Therefore when you forward look to the next cycle it will appear as predictive yet it will wreck you to oblivion.

[Griffith]

BTC did 2.5x from peak to peak

ETH did 2.2x from peak to peak

Why are people bragging ETH is better? it got nuked to Hades in 2019 as a result of it being a shitcoin and therefore had a larger multiple on its way to a lower peak to peak performance…..

Not only did ETH have a lower performing peak to peak vs BTC But it also did less on ETHBTC ratio than the previous cycle……

A worse peak. A worse performance vs BTC.

I’m with the BTC maxis on this one.

 

[Griffith]

ETH outperformed BTC over the past 3 years. However BTC has outperformed ETH the past 5 years. BNB and Doge outperformed both ETH and BTC that past 3 and 5 years.

These numbers all depend on when the snapshot is taken. Of all cryptos BTC has gone up the most since it's inception. It went from less than $1 to a high of almost $70k. I don't think even alts like Doge have gone up by the same magnitude.

Correct, referring to the previous bullrun, ETH outperformed BTC.

And still has more upside potential compared to BTC.

[Mayday]

Learn to read the ETHBTC chart.

You are looking for a narrative to be right instead of thinking about why you will be wrong.

There may not be any time to think about a flippening because you missed the peak entirely.

Max pain is peak much, much earlier than people even contemplate followed by a much, much longer bear market. Peak early 2024 and next peak might be late 2029 is max pain.

[Griffith]

And you should learn how to trade.

You've been flip flopping like crazy throughout this thread and claiming 'it's going to go much lower' at nearly every support level.

While some people were panicking, I bought at most of the lows.

Good luck with your 'narratives' though 

[Flexacon]

And you should learn how to trade.

You've been flip flopping like crazy throughout this thread and claiming 'it's going to go much lower' at nearly every support level.

While some people were panicking, I bought at most of the lows.

Good luck with your 'narratives' though 

Maybe Saylor needs to hire you as he just bought the highs again. $347.0 million of btc at an average price of $28,136.

The price was sat well below that for nearly 2 months!

Ark has changed the wording on their spot ETF application which was submitted much earlier than Blackrock. It's now reads very similar to the Blackrocks application. We may have an ETF much sooner than expected. I'm still doubtful.

[obsidian]

Maybe Saylor needs to hire you as he just bought the highs again. $347.0 million of btc at an average price of $28,136.

The price was sat well below that for nearly 2 months!

Ark has changed the wording on their spot ETF application which was submitted much earlier than Blackrock. It's now reads very similar to the Blackrocks application. We may have an ETF much sooner than expected. I'm still doubtful.

Blackrock does have a good track record though regarding their ETF applications - 575:1

https://cryptopotato.com/blackrocks-etf-success-rate-with-the-sec-is-575-to-1-what-about-its-bitcoin-application/#:~:text=BlackRock's%20ETF%20Success%20Rate%20With,What%20About%20its%20Bitcoin%20Application%3F

[obsidian]

Correct, referring to the previous bullrun, ETH outperformed BTC.

And still has more upside potential compared to BTC.

Yes I agree with that. I feel that ETH is currently undervalued vs BTC.

[obsidian]

BTC did 2.5x from peak to peak

ETH did 2.2x from peak to peak

Why are people bragging ETH is better? it got nuked to Hades in 2019 as a result of it being a shitcoin and therefore had a larger multiple on its way to a lower peak to peak performance…..

Not only did ETH have a lower performing peak to peak vs BTC But it also did less on ETHBTC ratio than the previous cycle……

A worse peak. A worse performance vs BTC.

I’m with the BTC maxis on this one.

ETH is deflationary and provides yield to stakers. Speaking as a staker, BTC would have to outperform ETH by the APY rate (currently around 5%) to offer equal value. My ETH balance grows via staking. Bitcoin does not offer that.

Ethereum also has a lot more utility than Bitcoin. Bitcoin was brought to a halt recently with the NFT craze. It is entirely unsuitable for that feature.

 

[Mayday]

And you should learn how to trade.

You've been flip flopping like crazy throughout this thread and claiming 'it's going to go much lower' at nearly every support level.

While some people were panicking, I bought at most of the lows.

Good luck with your 'narratives' though 

My post did appear rude now I look at it. not supposed to be so my bad there.

I don’t trade because I’m no good at short term.

Shitposting is exactly that. I post total utter flippant vomit on here. Yes I bought alts at BTC 17.5k (posted it) and said it’ll go to 11k or even 6k. I am dumb. I then said BTC could go as high as 42k and I sold around 29k. Make of that what you will.

I would like layer 2 alts to nuke. Unfortunately that will take out ETH. The thing to ponder about ETHBTC at support is are we all cool with the floor price of a punk NFT being triple that of Bitcoin? are we ok the NFT rock done in MS Paint being worth 150k at the bottom? They will 10x from here if so.

The more ‘alive’ these total pieces of shit are, the less money there is to pull up Bitcoin.
The less Bitcoin can pump, the worse off we all are. The Degenerate stuff exists on the ETH network so all that money holding up jpegs also prevents money flowing into ETH.

We kind of need ETH to take one for the team here and be the sacrificial lamb to kill off the stupid stuff.

Tone is always lost so apologies for being too blunt.

[Theoak*]

Yes I agree with that. I feel that ETH is currently undervalued vs BTC.

When is the "flippening" happening?

[gib]

This is like saying toilet paper has more utility than a car. They are 2 very different things. In terms of being the new universal censorable and unconfiscatable decentralized digital world currency and global store of value, nothing other than BTC comes close to offering such utility. Not Eth, nor any other alt or shitcoin.

[gib]

When is the "flippening" happening?

Never.

[obsidian]

[quote author=obsidian link=topic=574601.msg1Bitcoin was brought to a halt recently with the NFT craze. It is entirely unsuitable for that feature.

 



This is like saying toilet paper has more utility than a car. They are 2 very different things. In terms of being the new universal censorable and unconfiscatable decentralized digital world currency and global store of value, nothing other than BTC comes close to offering such utility. Not Eth, nor any other alt or shitcoin.

False analogy. Toilet paper and cars are completely different technologies. Bitcoin and Ethereum are both blockchains.

I would use this analogy:

Bitcoin = An expensive 2-seater classic sportscar that's loud, slow, and can carry few passengers.
Ethereum = Less expensive 5-seater Tesla that's quiet, fast, and can carry many passengers.

 

[obsidian]

When is the "flippening" happening?

Who knows. The Ethereum + Ethereum token market cap is approaching the market cap of Bitcoin.

BTC: 592 billion

ETH: 230.5 billion

Ethereun Tokens Market Cap: 240.64 billion

https://cryptoslate.com/blockchain/ethereum/

Some notable ETH tokens:

USDT: 83.5 billion
USDC: 27.95 billion
WBTC: 4.6 billion
DAI: 4.6 billion
MATIC: 6.14 billion
SHIB: 4.5 billion

ETH should really be trading at 1/6th the value of BTC because of the total supply. BTC @ $31K means ETH should be around $5k. Disregarding the other positive attributes such as lower current inflation and staking yields. It is currently underpriced relative to Bitcoin.

Michael Saylor reckons BTC dominance will go up to 80%. He lives in a fantasy and he is not looking too healthy lately in some of his interviews. He appears desperate and might be resorting to alcohol.

There are over 7 billion people on the planet. If the total ETH supply was distributed evenly to 1 billion people each person would only receive 0.122 ETH. Obviously, they would receive less BTC - around 0.02 BTC. But the point is even the Ethereum supply is small compared to the number of people on the planet. The world is big enough and there are enough use cases to justify numerous blockhains. Bitcoin is entirely unsuited to function as the one and only blockchain. It would completely choke and grind to a halt.

I also see a structural problem with the current Bitcoin model. As miner yields decrease the network will increasingly have to rely on fees to keep it secure. The fees would have to increase dramatically to keep "miners" incentivized. Therefore Bitcoin will become too expensive to transact with for most people. The lighting network has been touted as the solution. The only issue with that is it is centralized. You would not want to send a huge amount of BTC over the lighting network. And I have heard that it is clunky and overly-complex.

https://coingeek.com/btc-lightning-network-it-still-doesnt-work-but-does-anyone-notice/
https://unboundedcapital.com/blog/why-lightning-doesnt-work

[obsidian]

https://decrypt.co/146661/forgone-conclusion-ethererum-is-a-commodity-joe-lubin

It’s A 'Forgone Conclusion' That Ethereum Is A Commodity, Says Joe Lubin
The ConsenSys Founder says Gary Gensler may not be able to admit it, but that his hesitancy doesn’t matter.

Though the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) is waging legal war across the crypto space, Ethereum co-founder Joseph Lubin isn’t breaking a sweat.

When asked about regulators potentially treating Ether (ETH) like a security, the Consensys CEO explained during a Tuesday interview with CNBC that the regulatory verdict on Ethereum is already in.

“The SEC has spoken,” he said, referring to former SEC commissioner Bill Hinman’s 2018 speech on crypto securities and Ethereum.

New documents have revealed that Hinman received multiple warnings from colleagues that the speech could confuse markets into thinking that the SEC had already deemed the asset a non-security.

A security is a financial instrument often (but not always) associated with some kind of investment contract. A commodity, by contrast, is a basic or natural good, like gold, wheat, or cattle.

“The CFTC has spoken very crisply a number of times that they consider Ether like a commodity,” added Lubin.

While Commodities and Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) Chairman Rostin Benham agrees that many cryptocurrencies are securities, he also thinks the three top assets—including Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum, and Tether (USDT)—belong under his agency’s jurisdiction as commodities.

SEC Chairman Gary Gensler, by contrast, has only publicly deemed Bitcoin as such.

On the topic of Ether, Gensler has kept a tight lip. Some videos from his time as an MIT professor suggest he once thought it was a security, while others indicate he believed it had graduated from a security into a commodity by 2018.

Members of Congress are drafting legislation to clear up this issue, including Cynthia Lummis and Kirsten Gillibrand, and have voiced agreement with the CFTC that Ether is a commodity alongside Bitcoin.

“It’s really a forgone conclusion at this point,” said Lubin. “There may be a regulator or two in the United States that can’t bring himself to utter the fact that Ether is not a security, but I don’t know why that’s the case.”

The SEC sued Binance and Coinbase earlier this month alleging that over a dozen assets listed on their platform were securities, including Paxos-issued stablecoin BUSD.

[obsidian]

This guy makes interesting observations. I might have to get some Solana.