Author Topic: Mike Mentzer was a genius  (Read 18758 times)

Titus Pullo

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2023, 04:04:39 PM »
Great Genetics and Drugs
He built 90% of his mass with volume training and drugs as a teenager
Here is Mike at 19 and 195lbs

Mike told me he spent the majority of his teenage training following a low* to moderate** volume powerlifting and Olympic lifting routine.

*,** -- for the time.; e.g., four days per week, B/SQ/DL, maybe 6-8 hard sets per bodypart.

He said he transioned to high volume in his late teens and around the time he started attending UOM, got hurt, joined the Air Force and resumed lifting with 30+ sets/bodypart and made minimal progress.  Around that time he gave the Art Jones stuff a (second?) chance and liked it.

Mike was thoughtful, but genius, no.  He made many errors in his logic, especially where overtraining was concerned.  His solution to that was carried to ridiculous extremes...

...However, to say none of his stuff had merit is also b.s.  I used an earlier variant of Heavy Duty to considerable effect, and won the teen class of the NPC Tri-county in the general Charlotte area two years in a row, drug-free.  I was doing something right...a few of the other guys asked me about my prep cycle, and I had no clue what they were on about.

I've since come to appreciate shying away from failure and doing more work sets, but I still don't think there's any reason to do more than 9-16 work sets/bodypart per week, ideally spread across two sessions if you can swing it.

Wayne Tracker

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2023, 04:10:56 PM »
Mike told me he spent the majority of his teenage training following a low* to moderate** volume powerlifting and Olympic lifting routine.

*,** -- for the time.; e.g., four days per week, B/SQ/DL, maybe 6-8 hard sets per bodypart.

He said he transioned to high volume in his late teens and around the time he started attending UOM, got hurt, joined the Air Force and resumed lifting with 30+ sets/bodypart and made minimal progress.  Around that time he gave the Art Jones stuff a (second?) chance and liked it.

Mike was thoughtful, but genius, no.  He made many errors in his logic, especially where overtraining was concerned.  His solution to that was carried to ridiculous extremes...

...However, to say none of his stuff had merit is also b.s.  I used an earlier variant of Heavy Duty to considerable effect, and won the teen class of the NPC Tri-county in the general Charlotte area two years in a row, drug-free.  I was doing something right...a few of the other guys asked me about my prep cycle, and I had no clue what they were on about.

I've since come to appreciate shying away from failure and doing more work sets, but I still don't think there's any reason to do more than 9-16 work sets/bodypart per week, ideally spread across two sessions if you can swing it.

Did Mike tell  you when he started taking drugs?
I think I recall Dave Mastorakis saying that Mike started getting really big and he (Dave) and Ray Mentzer suspected Mike started taking drugs and he denied it and then  eventually admitted it

Did Mike go into the Air Force after he won the Mr. Pennsylvania (pic posted on prior page)

Rmj11

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2023, 09:03:45 PM »
I know I've read TW's opinion before but can't recall exactly what he said.... said Mike was kind of quirky, moody, stand offish but not a bad dude all in all. Trained pretty much the same as everyone else? IIRC..

Agree with most of what you say.... but Ayn Rand 'rubbish' ? Have to disagree. Objectivism is a solid philosophy. While books like Anthem, Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead were just as insightful and precautionary as 1984 or Brave New World, just a tad over done, too long , too self indulgent but otherwise quality works.

If you're over 20 and you're still into that Ayn Rand nonsense then I don't have words for you. You should study psychology and learn that socialisation, genetics, and many other factors play a big role in the people we become.

On Ayn Rand, she is not taken seriously in academic philosophy. She had no significant dialogue with the academic community. She completed no philosophical education apart from her own readings. In fact, the height of her education was a bachelor's degree in history. There are think tanks and other such organisations that have publications about Ayn Rand, but most of these (such as the Ayn Rand Institute) are not reputable academic institutions.

Just because someone uses objectism doesn't mean they are right.





Rmj11

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2023, 09:05:59 PM »
Mike told me he spent the majority of his teenage training following a low* to moderate** volume powerlifting and Olympic lifting routine.

*,** -- for the time.; e.g., four days per week, B/SQ/DL, maybe 6-8 hard sets per bodypart.

He said he transioned to high volume in his late teens and around the time he started attending UOM, got hurt, joined the Air Force and resumed lifting with 30+ sets/bodypart and made minimal progress.  Around that time he gave the Art Jones stuff a (second?) chance and liked it.

Mike was thoughtful, but genius, no.  He made many errors in his logic, especially where overtraining was concerned.  His solution to that was carried to ridiculous extremes...

...However, to say none of his stuff had merit is also b.s.  I used an earlier variant of Heavy Duty to considerable effect, and won the teen class of the NPC Tri-county in the general Charlotte area two years in a row, drug-free.  I was doing something right...a few of the other guys asked me about my prep cycle, and I had no clue what they were on about.

I've since come to appreciate shying away from failure and doing more work sets, but I still don't think there's any reason to do more than 9-16 work sets/bodypart per week, ideally spread across two sessions if you can swing it.

Cough...cough...

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2023, 12:47:22 AM »
If you're over 20 and you're still into that Ayn Rand nonsense then I don't have words for you. Ypu should study psychology and learn that socialisation, genetics, and many other factors play a big role in the people we become.

On Ayn Rand, she is not taken seriously in academic philosophy. She had no significant dialogue with the academic community. She completed no philosophical education apart from her own readings. In fact, the height of her education was a bachelor's degree in history. There are think tanks and other such organisations that have publications about Ayn Rand, but most of these (such as the Ayn Rand Institute) are not reputable academic institutions.

Just because someone uses objectism doesn't mean there are right.
The fact that Rand was not accepted by academia is actually a feather in her cap.

Rmj11

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2023, 06:55:11 AM »
The fact that Rand was not accepted by academia is actually a feather in her cap.

Nope.

beakdoctor

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2023, 07:35:18 AM »
If you're over 20 and you're still into that Ayn Rand nonsense then I don't have words for you. You should study psychology and learn that socialisation, genetics, and many other factors play a big role in the people we become. I have but what does it matter? Im talking philosophy. Genetics,  psychology,  socialization are different topics.

On Ayn Rand, she is not taken seriously in academic philosophy. She had no significant dialogue with the academic community. This has been a sea change. She used to when academia was about furthering and expanding ones education.  Academia has been taken over and is nothing more than radical liberal indoctrination. The last thing academics want is objective thought. That should be obvious by now.


She completed no philosophical education apart from her own readings
. So what? The list of total degenerate, dumbfuck assholes, with university degrees is long and distinguished as is the list of great intellects with no formal educatics. A flimsy diploma that can be just as easily purchased as earned is not a useful metric.In fact, the height of her education was a bachelor's degree in history. There are think tanks and other such organisations that have publications about Ayn Rand, but most of these (such as the Ayn Rand Institute) are not reputable academic institutions. Ha! Academic institutions are training grounds for foot soldiers of the left. The cornerstones of Rands philosophy: Objective thought, capitalism, self interest, achievement,  independent thought are the enemies of modern  academia which in turn is the enemy of reason.

Just because someone uses objectism doesn't mean they are right
.I never said they were. And most certainly not Mentzer. If he truly understood objectivism he would not care about the judges score cards. If he truly understood Rand he would know rational self interest, which he didn't.

Titus Pullo

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2023, 02:46:04 PM »
Cough...cough...

It would behoove you to monitor that cough.  It might be a COVID symptom ;)

In all seriousness, as I said months ago, before someone decries "HIT" as worthless or the like, it's first necessary to define what HIT actually means. 

Some say it's the Art Jones routine; e.g., 8-12 Nautilus machines each taken to a set of positive failure in full-body workouts performed thrice weekly.

I maintain that definition is overly narrow.  On the other end of the scale, you have Mentzer's "consolidation routine," which had people training once/week with just a couple of exercises taken to a point of failure.

That shit was based on reasoning that made a kind of superficial sense but was based in some of the worst premises imaginable.  See, Mike thought that, as long as someone "triggered the growth mechanism" bu training to failure, ANY lack of progress MUST be attributed to "overtraining" and, as such, the only way to stay ahead of poor progress was to add more and more rest days :/




The Scott

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2023, 04:04:14 PM »
Cough...cough...

Ah...You must be prepping for your weekly "hernia" checkup.

pkaz

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2023, 06:02:52 PM »
Mike Mentzer turned into a mental case. Great in the beginning at marketing.  His HIT training was pure bullshit.
I knew his brother Ray and used to have breakfast with him at Rocky Cola Cafe in Hermosa Beach, CA. We always discussed training, eating, and drugs. Mike trained like everyone else. Just forgot to tell you how many sets were used before his final set. Work up in weight and then a final set. Education of a body builder my Arnold...

And Ray was way better than Mike and much stronger... 

Wayne Tracker

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2023, 06:11:58 PM »
Mike Mentzer turned into a mental case. Great in the beginning at marketing.  His HIT training was pure bullshit.
I knew his brother Ray and used to have breakfast with him at Rocky Cola Cafe in Hermosa Beach, CA. We always discussed training, eating, and drugs. Mike trained like everyone else. Just forgot to tell you how many sets were used before his final set. Work up in weight and then a final set. Education of a body builder my Arnold...

And Ray was way better than Mike and much stronger...

Here is an audio file of Ray Mentzer promoting the same bullshit of very few sets such as 4-5 for chest and 1-3 for biceps and 2 sets for calves


Humble Narcissist

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2023, 01:31:26 AM »
Mike Mentzer turned into a mental case. Great in the beginning at marketing.  His HIT training was pure bullshit.
I knew his brother Ray and used to have breakfast with him at Rocky Cola Cafe in Hermosa Beach, CA. We always discussed training, eating, and drugs. Mike trained like everyone else. Just forgot to tell you how many sets were used before his final set. Work up in weight and then a final set. Education of a body builder my Arnold...

And Ray was way better than Mike and much stronger...
Ray was the strongest bodybuilder in about any gym he entered.

AFetlifeFanatic

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2023, 05:26:33 AM »
I'm curious how everyone here would react if they dedicated themselves well enough to bodybuilding then had a rival like Arnold they had to compete against and then die reasonably early in life and knowing that a bunch of losers who are no where near as competitive talk shit for decades

I'm 100000000000000000000000 000000 percent done holding that in

like durdurdur "oh jay cutler mustve been crying all night! obviously i'm the man for talking shit about him for losing to Ronnie Coleman!"

Just checking for anyone who wants to be a fucking douchebag here too

wes

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2023, 05:30:39 AM »
Did Mike tell  you when he started taking drugs?
I think I recall Dave Mastorakis saying that Mike started getting really big and he (Dave) and Ray Mentzer suspected Mike started taking drugs and he denied it and then  eventually admitted it

Did Mike go into the Air Force after he won the Mr. Pennsylvania (pic posted on prior page)
This is almost exactly what Dave told me.

JackTheRipper

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2023, 05:38:38 AM »

pkaz

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2023, 06:01:02 PM »
Ray was the strongest bodybuilder in about any gym he entered.

That is a very true statement......

AFetlifeFanatic

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2023, 05:27:14 AM »
so is mike worthy of respect or not?

some people deserve a brass knuckle punch to the forehead

we live in a time full of microdicks who look twice their age and never set foot in a fucking gym talking shit

Like WTF MAN

hipolito mejia

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2023, 05:31:17 AM »
so is mike worthy of respect or not?

some people deserve a brass knuckle punch to the forehead

we live in a time full of microdicks who look twice their age and never set foot in a fucking gym talking shit

1 - Its not the size but how you use it .

2 Both Mentzer and Bob Paris would have had a lot of respect had they been from this era .

AFetlifeFanatic

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2023, 05:33:39 AM »
and they should from any era, not just because of losers who kiss arnolds ass and try to bandwagon against anyone that can't defend themselves due to being dead

2023 really needs to do away with the jackasses currently in it

perhaps mike dealt with a fuckload of distress from haters he knew he didn't deserve?

and I'm referring to ANY life long sedentaries who lurk here and think "oh what a fucking retard this or that person is when I never improve myself and much worse off than the person I'm projecting on! DURDURDUR!!!"

beakdoctor

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2023, 05:59:55 AM »
Mike had one of the most brutal and humiliating meltdowns of all time. If even some of the stories about him are true regarding the paranoia,  homelessness,  psychotic episodes,  arrests, drinking urine, amphetamine abuse etc..etc.. it's a mighty fall from grace.

I will say pulling yourself back up afrer you've sunk to those depths merits respect. For a while before the end of his life he was writing for the magazines again and training people,  even had some kind of influence on Dorian- which at the time- was the greatest redemption he could possibly get.

The Scott

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2023, 10:17:37 AM »
Mike had one of the most brutal and humiliating meltdowns of all time. If even some of the stories about him are true regarding the paranoia,  homelessness,  psychotic episodes,  arrests, drinking urine, amphetamine abuse etc..etc.. it's a mighty fall from grace.

I will say pulling yourself back up afrer you've sunk to those depths merits respect. For a while before the end of his life he was writing for the magazines again and training people,  even had some kind of influence on Dorian- which at the time- was the greatest redemption he could possibly get.

Agreed, sir.  I think its because of the amphetamnes he took and they destroyed his mind.

Rmj11

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2023, 01:20:49 PM »
Here is an audio file of Ray Mentzer promoting the same bullshit of very few sets such as 4-5 for chest and 1-3 for biceps and 2 sets for calves



John Little (who is little)still desperately pushing the hit dogma to mislead people but he still can't provide any evidence of mentzer's theories working.

Rmj11

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2023, 01:23:50 PM »
so is mike worthy of respect or not?

some people deserve a brass knuckle punch to the forehead

we live in a time full of microdicks who look twice their age and never set foot in a fucking gym talking shit

Like WTF MAN

Con men should never get any respect.

Hit is a marketing gimmick. Nothing more.

Rmj11

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2023, 01:27:06 PM »


All wrong by the way. If you're still into ayn Rand over the age of 20 you need a shrink. Deflection is not an argument.

Wayne Tracker

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Re: Mike Mentzer was a genius
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2023, 01:55:51 PM »
John Little (who is little)still desperately pushing the hit dogma to mislead people but he still can't provide any evidence of mentzer's theories working.

that audio is from a cassette tape that Ray Mentzer used to sell along
It's almost at nutty and some of Mike Mentzer's workout recommendation in the final years of his life

just total nonsense and nothing like either of them trained for the majority of their lives (if ever)