Author Topic: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?  (Read 67115 times)

Lee_a_priest

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #300 on: May 04, 2006, 09:10:37 PM »
I know the women ain't your fight but it's in the IFBB rules.Nothing i see done there when they know it is happening and have seen it every month.That is a violation and yet goes  unpunished

HRDCOR

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #301 on: May 04, 2006, 09:11:39 PM »
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Yeah but it passes the time there is crap on tv tonight                                          


You could go watch some porn , Ohhhh no then you would be really up for suspension and probably a fine , better of just staying here !!

Chick

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #302 on: May 04, 2006, 09:12:34 PM »
and in that we agree, my friend...

If that rule were enforced long ago, the FBBers would most likely be seen in a better light...

HRDCOR

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #303 on: May 04, 2006, 09:13:39 PM »
Am I helping here in any way  ;D ::)

Lee_a_priest

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #304 on: May 04, 2006, 09:16:24 PM »
Am I helping here in any way  ;D ::)

Yes Marc you are.Well i am off to bed please continue give me something to read tomorrow.

Nite Bob boy, nite Marc boy

Chick

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #305 on: May 04, 2006, 09:17:53 PM »
Nite Lee, nite marc...

Stavios

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #306 on: May 04, 2006, 09:18:05 PM »
Am I helping here in any way  ;D ::)

haha Marc your are as usefull in this thread as a fridge for the eskimos  ;D

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #307 on: May 04, 2006, 09:18:56 PM »
Athletes: We, the athletes, realizing that our conduct reflects on the good name of the

sport, and realizing the responsibility thereby placed upon us, pledge ourselves:

14. to conduct ourselves at all times in a manner that reflects positively upon the image of

the sport and the IFBB.

Bob that Olympia is over.Get over it it has been explained so many times to you.I am begining to think bbers are dumb.

Only one was for pulling out off a show.Rest were for interviews and things i said.

As for the rest i answered your questions.Now answer mine MR  natural.Cause going by IFBB rules you must be or you will be fined and suspended.

Bob Chick uses drugs? Holy Crap!

Stavios

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #308 on: May 04, 2006, 09:19:08 PM »
Nite Lee, nite marc...

good decision to stop answering 240   ;D

HRDCOR

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #309 on: May 04, 2006, 09:19:30 PM »
Nite lee boy , oh dont forget to let larnce out and dont let kitty out ,she is a slut and just goes off looking for cat dic !!! sleep well you trouble maker  ;D

onlyme

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #310 on: May 04, 2006, 09:21:24 PM »
Believe me the IFBB would not want Lee to take them to court.  Whether Lee wins or not is not the question it is going to expose the IFBB and the way they operate that is going to kill them.  They are an organization who promotes the MAJOR use of steroids.  I would love to see Weiders and Manion in court explaining their shit.

HRDCOR

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #311 on: May 04, 2006, 09:24:03 PM »
Nite big Chicy wicky ---- sleep well with your teddy and may the boggy monster under your bed stay under your bed , and make sure you are all snuggly wuggly so you don't get cold , oh and have you been to the toilet and cleaned your teeth ??? you have OK , good boy , nite nite !! :)




(can you tell i have kids ?)

Chick

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #312 on: May 04, 2006, 09:28:04 PM »
Believe me the IFBB would not want Lee to take them to court.  Whether Lee wins or not is not the question it is going to expose the IFBB and the way they operate that is going to kill them.  They are an organization who promotes the MAJOR use of steroids.  I would love to see Weiders and Manion in court explaining their shit.

What would they have to explain, Keith? The rules which prohibit the use of AAS? Just how would that be portrayed as "promoting the use of..."?

I guess EVERY sport would be in the same position as almost ALL athletes at the pro level use some sort of PE Drugs...

onlyme

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #313 on: May 04, 2006, 09:39:06 PM »
What would they have to explain, Keith? The rules which prohibit the use of AAS? Just how would that be portrayed as "promoting the use of..."?

I guess EVERY sport would be in the same position as almost ALL athletes at the pro level use some sort of PE Drugs...

I would have to say they would need to expalin why a rule that has been around for many years has never or rarely been enforced.  And you right about every sport using roids and now Congress is getting down on them.  The way the IFBB "promotes" the use of roids is the way the guys look nowadays and how the winners look.  Richard Jones is awesome.  As much as I hate to say this and I am wrinkling my face as I type, Sahwn was awesome looking.  But no way would they beat the big huge guys.  No matter what the bigger the better placing.  Unless they just look like crap.  The big problem is BB is so up front and evident on the use of roids.  100% of every pro uses them.  If they drug tested (real drug testing Olympic style or hair or whatever is the best) every pro prior to the show how many competitors would there be.  The reason why the IFBB does not do this is because they would have no comeptitors and no shows.  They realize their success is based allot of the use of roids by their members.  So no way could they uphold this rule.  But, they probably had to include it.  Baseball, football, golf, tennis and others can't say this.

Either way suspending Lee butnot others for breaking the rules is not right.

WHo knows what I just said I am watching TV, eating and listening to my daughter talk all at the same time I am typing so hopefully you can decifer what I wrote.  Like I said Bob I don't want to argue with you or whateve.  I like you but just don't like where your loyalty is. 

Chick

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #314 on: May 04, 2006, 09:48:26 PM »
Theres no question where my loyalties are. Any of the athletes know this, thats why you hear no complaints from them.

When we talk about people putting their ass on the line...I'm at the front of it. I'm the one who tried organizing a union for the athletes, I put MY ass, MY career on the line for the greator good. This came at a time where I just placed runnner up in 2 shows, and made an Olympia appearance, and signed by GNC...It's not like I had nothing to lose.

People can talk the talk all they want, I walk the walk. I fight the establishment everytime I sit down to the table and submit changes...all that benefit the athletes, put more money in their pockets, and try and give some much needed exposure to bring this sport where it should be.

The items I submit are in the best interests of BOTH the IFBB and the athletes...a win/ win for the company and it's workers. Thats called making progress, and TCOB.

Saskbb

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #315 on: May 04, 2006, 09:55:56 PM »
Anti-trust laws are very trick and we all know baseball had to get an act of congress to allow how they treated their players.  Noticed it was quickly floored by the congess during the baseball drug (roid) hearing as a hummer congress was prepared to use.


I don't think Ben and Joe at there age really want to get involved in that type of situation.  My feeling is they would not make the case any easier.  Lee could really open up a hugh kettle od fish here. 

The US governement is on an anti-roid abuse by pro sports roll,  I just hope all current pros IFBB and PDI can get this issue solved on the QT and save a hugh shit storm. 

Bob, sports contract law is not as plan and simple as business contract law.  Hope my post made some sense. I'm 5 weeks out from a contest and too old (42) for this shit LOL. 

Nite all
Hope cooler heads in the AM can move the pros together to solve these issues.

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #316 on: May 04, 2006, 10:00:14 PM »
The items I submit are in the best interests of BOTH the IFBB and the athletes...a win/ win for the company and it's workers. Thats called making progress, and TCOB.

No, that cannot be, Bob.  Every consideration you make for the IFBB hurts the athletes.  You cannot logically argue that allowing athletes to compete in BOTh the IFBB and PDI is bad for the athletes. 

You can't be everyone's friend, Bob.  The sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll start making some REAL progress.

Ron

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #317 on: May 04, 2006, 10:28:33 PM »
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Bob this is a serious question. What would be the harm in athletes competing in both? i realize it is against the rules but would amending the rules hurt anything?

The harm in it is that it will give the PDI an existence and an affirmation, and that is something that the IFBB doesnt want. Why help someone who is essentially your competition. Doesnt matter what federation or group it is - the same applies. That is just like asking why can't the NFL players play in the CFL, or Arena League, or so on. Because they can't.

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Bob, this logic seems to work well for you when you're trying to suspend Lee.

I think you guys must realize that Bob is not going to suspend Lee or anyone else if they violate one of the most sacred rules - the IFBB will.

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Why not use it to get some better benefits and prize money for the athletes? Bob, explain why you're not working to change the rule stopping IFBB guys from doing PDI shows. You're working to keep the money with the IFBB. f you want to be the IFBB Rep, that's fine. But you need to quit calling youself the Athletes Rep. You're not representing their best interests

Well - here you go. Bob is the IFBB Athlete's Rep. He isn't the PDI's Athletes Rep, or NABBA's Athlete Rep. Other federations can appoint their own. And he is doing his best, working on whatever he can to get better benefits and prize money for the IFBB Athletes, in the group he is in. It is that simple.

If you have ever been to college and joined a fraternity, you know that you can join another fraternity while you are in it. You can go to their parties, you can go to their events, but you cannot compete on their basketball teams, intermural teams, or be part of their organization. And if fraternity #1 offers a prize if you win, fraternity #2 member just can't compete and get it. You can even go to another university and join the same fraternity, but not another one. So simple - same analogy.

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People can talk the talk all they want, I walk the walk. I fight the establishment everytime I sit down to the table and submit changes...all that benefit the athletes, put more money in their pockets, and try and give some much needed exposure to bring this sport where it should be.

This is true. Bob has organized meetings, provided literature to benefit IFBB athletes, and tried many things. Athletes want to want to be helped.

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No, that cannot be, Bob.  Every consideration you make for the IFBB hurts the athletes.  You cannot logically argue that allowing athletes to compete in BOTh the IFBB and PDI is bad for the athletes. 


Hey, if the athlete could have it their way, they would compete in any organization that offers prize money. But alas, like many sport, organizations, and clubs, that doesn't work that way.  No one is telling these athletes where to go. The PDI can exist, as other organizations do. But people need to choose which one they want to compete in. And wish them the best.





Chick

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #318 on: May 04, 2006, 10:49:37 PM »
All true Ron...the voice of reason as usual.

Funny thing is...I'm not so sure that people aren't looking at the bigger picture here.

Is another federation REALLY in the athletes best interest?

Lets consider the fact that there are lass than 30 "names" when you look at the "best of the best"...The tier 1 guys as people like to put it. Much like when we (the NPC) decided to create a SHW class...within a few years, it watered down the heavyweight division, which in turn, made for two mediocre classes as opposed to one strong one....and the depth of the competition has suffered since.

Lets assume for the sake of conversation, that The PDI actually comes to be...and that 1/2 of the top guys decide to compete there...equally divided among talent...Jay in one, Ronnie in another..etc, etc.


Given the fact that IFBB shows don't always pack the house, and the lower purse shows either barely make it, or get nixed....is there enough market to sustain BOTH?

Fans have dictated by their response, that they will suppport the bigger shows with the bigger names competing...they'll pay to see the best there is. What they won't do, is pay to see 1 or 2 great bodybuilders and a bunch of guys that are pretty good, and some they've never heard of.

McMahon thought the world could use another football league, too...had some funky new rules...some jazzy uniforms and cool names for the teams...and some damn good players, not the BEST, but very good by any standards. Same premise...same results. The fans showed little interest and it tanked in record time. Keep in mind, this was done with MILLIONS invested, TV time/ exposure.

The questions remain...are there enough fans out there to support 2 federations?

If there were 2 mediocre federations, would the athletes make MORE money, or quite possibly LESS?

The 25-30 best bodybuilders in the world can only compete in so many shows per year...if they were allowed to compete in both equally, would they compete more often? Could they financially or physically?

Heres some things I have to consider as the Athletes Representative...is it REALLY in the athletes best interests? I have to dig deep and consider ALL relevant issues...not just scratch the surface.


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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #319 on: May 04, 2006, 10:53:44 PM »
Chick,

it's good you speak honestly here.  however, in ANY industry throughout history- business or sporting- a monopoly invites corruption, fixing, favortism, and a lack of options for employees.

Look at ANY firm that has no competition.  How efficient is your local tax/license bureau?   How many hours do you spend at the DMV?

Then, you realize if there was competition- a private firm next door with better seats and faster service, the original firm would have to work to provide a higher level of service- or it would close.

It's like that here, too.  Ronnie and Dorian have both had gift wins.  In an open market, competing firms would offer fans a viable option- an unpredictable outcome- which many prefer. 

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #320 on: May 04, 2006, 10:57:12 PM »
I see the IFBB as Wal-Mart.  They keep 95% of their employees just above poverty level, earning 8 and change an hour.

WalMart, due to their relationship with customers (lowest prices) and suppliers (efficient shipping systems in place), will not be beaten.  Just like the IFBB will not.

But- a specialy grocer can move in next door to WalMart and sell different foods, and deliver better customer service.

Suddenly customers (fans) have more options.  Employees can work at either place, which keeps wages competitive.  And owners have to ensure they keep delivering both the employees and customers a high level of service to keep em coming back.

you will not find ONE example in history where a MONOPOLY was better for employees, or customers.  (Fans or athletes here).  Only the owners.

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #321 on: May 04, 2006, 11:03:57 PM »
And, to answer your quesiton of 25-30 athletes-

Professionals who deliver a rare and exclusive service typically unionize to ensure they receive consistent pay, treatment, benefits, and to ensure there isn't undercutting and scabbing.

Musicians have a standard hourly rate.  Screen actors Guild, I'm sure you're familiar with.  Psychologists and other educated pros do this also. 

This would be comparable to the IFBB giving all athletes a guaranteed check for competing, guaranteeing judge rotation, or something along those lines to ensure things are fair.  Or even neutral judges, who don't own gyms or supp companies.

Point is, in the absence of dueling firms, professionals typically unite to ensure a standard of work quality among all of them.

Ron

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #322 on: May 04, 2006, 11:04:13 PM »
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I see the IFBB as Wal-Mart.  They keep 95% of their employees just above poverty level, earning 8 and change an hour. WalMart, due to their relationship with customers (lowest prices) and suppliers (efficient shipping systems in place), will not be beaten.  Just like the IFBB will not. But- a specialy grocer can move in next door to WalMart and sell different foods, and deliver better customer service. Suddenly customers (fans) have more options.  Employees can work at either place, which keeps wages competitive.  And owners have to ensure they keep delivering both the employees and customers a high level of service to keep em coming back. you will not find ONE example in history where an example was better for employees, or customers.  (Fans or athletes here).  Only the owners.


Using your analogy, as a bodybuilding fan (customer), I can go to Wal-Mart, Target, or whatever. That is the fans (customers) choice. No arguement there. They are not with Wal-Mart or Target. Now the employees have a different choice. They can either work full time at Wal-Mart or at Target, or any other store they want. But they can't do both. You only have 40-50 hours a week of work, logically. They need to choose. And I can guarantee you that if they work 40 hours at Wal-Mart, Target won't hire them.

But this isnt a store. If is a federation - you don't have to join. You choose to join in the beginning of each year. You can choose to join somewhere else. But if you want to join one or the other, you agree to their rules. PLain and simple again.


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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #323 on: May 04, 2006, 11:10:12 PM »
Using your analogy, as a bodybuilding fan (customer), I can go to Wal-Mart, Target, or whatever. That is the fans (customers) choice. No arguement there. They are not with Wal-Mart or Target. Now the employees have a different choice. They can either work full time at Wal-Mart or at Target, or any other store they want. But they can't do both. You only have 40-50 hours a week of work, logically. They need to choose. And I can guarantee you that if they work 40 hours at Wal-Mart, Target won't hire them.

But this isnt a store. If is a federation - you don't have to join. You choose to join in the beginning of each year. You can choose to join somewhere else. But if you want to join one or the other, you agree to their rules. PLain and simple again.

I agree that is fair.  And most stores won't let you work for their competitors.  That is very common.

It would be unfair of the Union rep- the guy who works hard for the rights of all the stockboys at walmart- to work to keep Target from moving in next door.  he would never tell his stockboys not to work at Target.  Instead, he would go to walmart mgmt and demand higher pay for the stockboys to compete with target.  And since the IFBB (WMT mgmt) has been slow to listen to these changes over the years, it would be the Rep's job to encourage all of them to go where the money is!

Bob shouldn't be saying anything that would discourage IFBB athletes from earning money.  three or four new federations would be even better!  Competition keeps people sharp!  IFBB would suddenly have to choose- improve shows and prize money, or keep greater share of profits. 

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Re: Extra 50K - What do you guys think?
« Reply #324 on: May 04, 2006, 11:14:33 PM »
the rule stopping IFBB guys from doing PDI shows.

Let's assume that the rule was removed and that any athlete could compete in any show. Would the IFBB or the PDI still charge sanction fees to the promoters?  At the moment, the only way a promoter can get access to IFBB athletes is to pay them a $10K sanction fee, so love them or hate them, a promoter is getting something for his money.

The PDI are allowing their athletes to compete in any federation but are still imposing a $10K sanction fee, so what does the promoter get for that? I've considered the judges, but if all the federation or organisations were open, then a promoter could use any of them. Would the fans or sponsors be less interested in a show that had no affliliation to any federation?

Personally I think a "closed shop" run correctly is the the best appproach. I haven't included NABBA in this because I don't know their rules or sanction fees.