Disgusted,
How much would could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
I used to admire woodchucks. In fact, after getting to know a few I started to look up to them and they finally trusted me enough to let me know that none of them chuck their own wood any more, they actually contract the work out. Needless to say I felt very betrayed and ended my relationship with them pronto. >:(
Ok a real question............
What do you think the best offseason stragety is? To get fat as Trey Brewer and put on 5-8lbs of quality muscle and get fat as a junior high school secretary or................ Stay lean within 10-15lbs of your contest bw and only put on 3-5 pounds of quality muscle??? Now both of these scenarios might not be optimal, and if neither are, what is?
Well, yor assuming that you can put on more muscle by getting fat. 5-8 pounds vs 3-5. There is NO good reason to ever put on more than a little fat after your show. It's not so much how much you weigh as opposed to how you look. My rule of thumb is to still be able to see your abs to a certain degree, decent separation, unless genetic not so many striations. Unfortunatley most guys do not do this and end up having to lose weigh ;D too much fat for a show thus making it that much harder to get into contest shape.
Disgusted, I'm not sure if everyone else knows, but I don't, why don't you give us a little bit of info on your background. Education, experience, people you've trained(if you can), etc?
Wife won't give me any fellacio, any tips on how to help this happen ?
I like to hear you vieuw on the subject of keeping gains after a cycle.
Reg pct either HCG and or clomid.
I read lot of your post and like your honest vieuw, I know you don't think its possible.
Can you explain why and what your vieuw how someone can progress past there natural limit whitout doing crazy things.
Progressing past your natural limt would mean you have to do unatural things. The bigger you want to get the "crazier" things you have to do.
From your vieuw if someone is at his natural max, using a cycle 1 time a year for 8 week will not make him progress if he does the same cycle year in year out ? He will go back to his natural max time after time ?
If you do a cycle once a year then you will only be "big" for as long as the benefit of the drugs last which is different for everyone. Maybe a few weeks to months depending on how much you do. PCT can slightly prolong these gains.
disgusted
is there any benefit from mega dosing ?
like.... okay...lets say a guy with 250 lean pounds of muscle... that guy probably needs a total of 5-7 grams of total hormones and hormone derivatives just to grow . (of course this is just like an average )... okay now what if a guy with only 200 lbs of lean muscle, who only needs 1-3 grams total product in order to grow... what if he took the 5-7 total ??/ would this shoot him up to that 250 mark, or no ?
Very true, i was wrong to assume that. But i would only hope that you would be able to put on more muscle if your putting on 70lbs in an offseason like LunchTrey did :)
So what your telling me is that its better to stay lean in the offseason while gaining size so you dont have to diet your ass off and suffer to diet down for a contest?
Well, I think most guys on here know that I have helped King and I have also mentioned and posted pics of my wife. Quite a few others over the years. I am most known for I guess for getting guys and gals ripped. I have taken more than a few guys who have never entered shows before and have them won either the overall or their weight class based on mostly conditioning. Far as education goes I finished highschool but was forced to. ;D I entered my first show when I was 18, trained myself and my last in 1991.A self taught man, I like it, real world experience speaks volumes.
I love to read and still will go to a book store and read for an hour or two a few times a month. Read tons of books including health, medical journals ect. I will also read fiction when I get the time. I am mostly self taught but I also will put my theories to the test. Haven't always been right but have been most of the time thank God. All of the people that I have ever trained have been refferals or people whoo have come to me because they have seen someone at a show that I have trained. I am retiring after this year at least for a year or to. Been doing this for bout 25 years so I need a break. That about covers it I think unless anyone else has a question.
A self taught man, I like it, real world experience speaks volumes.
What is your opinion, in general, about natural limit vs height? Let's say the natural limit for someone 5'10" is how many lbs? And so on, could you give us a break down on what you feel is a limit for different heights?
Well, 5 10 about 190 on stage and that is pretty good. For every inch about 10 pounds or so.So me being 6'2", my natural competitive limit could be somewhere around 230? Interesting, most "pros" at that height are up around 300lbs........70lbs from using "supplements"?
So me being 6'2", my natural competitive limit could be somewhere around 230? Interesting, most "pros" at that height are up around 300lbs........70lbs from using "supplements"?
So 5'8 170 would be good :)Doing the math, I think he's saying that is close to max potential, for a natural, I'm sure there are exceptions both ways(heavier,lighter).
Flex, '93, USA's, doesn't ring a bell, what did he weigh?
Was he natural in that contest?
Doing the math, I think he's saying that is close to max potential, for a natural, I'm sure there are exceptions both ways(heavier,lighter).
i have a few Qs for Disgusted actually
I Would like to know....im trying to shed Bodyfat and build at the same time.Ive decided to do the whole cardio thing immediately after the workout after the workout
1)How much of cardio , and IYHO whats the best in term of intensity level
2) When should i drink my MRP ? After the wkout or after the cardio ???
Also , whats your opinion on the Surge Nubret method of training?
That being moderate weights for high reps(about 20 - 25) and high sets (40 sets) with minimal rest in between...he says with this type of training you dont need cardio
Apparently TomPlatz used to do 40 -50 rep squats
whats your opinion on the high reps vs Heavy with low reps ??
Jim what do you think about Kegel Exercises and how can i incorporate them into my routine?
I did it for a while not too long ago and have done similar workouts thru out my career (career? lol) and have made great gains. Now, when it is said that you do not need to do cardio I would agree with that, but remember that if you are just waaaay too fat then take it slow and rely on your diet for the long haul.
Too many guys are taking so much stuff that they are getting too strong for their own good. I can name plenty of top guys who's careers have ended due to injury but I know that I do not have to since most here know of a few themselves. Serge has been are for a long time and it is no cooincidence.
Disgusted dont you have some pictures of some guys that youve trained? Like before and afters for everyone to see how great of a job that you do?
Great idea for a thread Chaos..
Jim/Disgusted.
What do you know of lipex?
My Doctor has prescribed it to me as Im keen to stay on a dose of 250mg Of test for the rest of my life whilst going on bigger doses 2-3 times a year,My cholesterol is not out of whack but he says its a precaution more than anything..
One of the "potential" sides is muscle breakdown/wastage..this happens to a minority of people.
In your experience do you know of in the real world how the use of statins effects muscle gains?
Im sure alot of the pros would be on these drugs along with blood pressure meds more to help keep sides from high doses of hormones at bay..
Your thoughts please :)
Interesting...
Would like to ask what would you recommend for a workout of CHest for example using Nubrets method , in terms of sets and exercises
(I would think 40 sets is a bit much, is it? also how many type of different exercises would you have to do) You get what im asking right ?
thanks chaos and Disgusted
Say 4 exercises of 6 sets each. Since you will not be using that heavy of a weight just do a warm up or two. Then try and find that "right" weight for the exercise and the tempo that you wll be using. Rest maybe bout a minute. You may have to lighten up a bit as people tend to start with too heavy of a weight at first. I have used incline DB press, seated machine press, cable cross and maybe flat flys, your preference.
Cheers bro , I understand where you are comming from and I respect your advice hence the question.
I have a very strong opinion about statins soooo this is only my opinion and I am not suggesting that you in any way construe this as medical advise. IMO stain drugs are deadly and have NOOOOOOOO use in humans. The muscle wasting I have seen in MANY people and it can be deadly and they are very hard on the liver MUCH more than steroids can ever be. I would NEVER take them no matter what.
Cheers bro , I understand where you are comming from and I respect your advice hence the question.
In your opinion are there more healthy options out there to help support a healthy lipid profile?
Theres diet and exercise which I do but are there any other things I can add?I take fish oils and Sesamin ,is there anything else I can add?
Like I said my lipids arnt out of whack , but the Dr knows I cycle and stay on a cruise dose of 250mg test e a week when off so he is thinking "prevention is better than cure" I guess
disgusted what do you think is best stack for mass
using
test
tren
deca
eq
dbol
anadrol
wel if thats what you think is going to be best then sure, all at once.
lol
im just asking with those compounds because those are the ones most easily attainable and the ones most commonly refered to as mass builders
like gh15 says " test + deca + dbol "
what would your stack be?
im interested in tren cause alot of guys swear by it and call it king of aas
Prob the most muscle out there was built on test deca dbol. That is a very good stack. Be careful with tren. As far as I am concerned there is no use for it if you are not competing. I personally know a couple of guys who used a lot of it and have had kidney problems.If you are competing then what is its use?
Say 4 exercises of 6 sets each. Since you will not be using that heavy of a weight just do a warm up or two. Then try and find that "right" weight for the exercise and the tempo that you wll be using. Rest maybe bout a minute. You may have to lighten up a bit as people tend to start with too heavy of a weight at first. I have used inclie DB press, seated machine press, cable cross and maybe flat flys, your preference.
Disgusted,
Blondes or Brunettes?
If you are competing then what is its use?
Btw , will the weights for each set remain constant or does 1 have to increase the weight slightly for each set
you think its twice as powerful as testosterone for putting on muscle ?
Disgusted,
what do u think the reason for this new offseason look that phil heath is sporting. Bloated, small, and semi fat.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=217509.0
Vanbilder made a comment in another post about him and I agree, low androgens, but slin and GH. Seems to be the new fad.
wow, and thats the future of bodybuilding............ how sad
How is this bad?
i dont think its insulin.... people always attribute distended abdomens to insulin and palumboism to insulin but to me that mase zero sense... what does insulin do in the body thats going to cause those things?
in fact i wonder why insulin even works at all... "the most anabolic hormone in the human body "..but its not directly anabolic to muscel tissue is just storage hormone...
idk...
if disgusted you know what the mechanisms of action for insulin are please fill me in
as for the ruined pro physqiues i personally think its just overall AAS / gh mega dosing and guys letting estrogen build muscles
Disgusted has said many times that he thinks visceral fat buildup is the cause. Due to exogenous insulin.
Me I'd like to see some scans of some of these pregnant pros to see what's really going on.
We can go a step further and also assume it creates "marbled fat" within the muscle bellies, hence the "no rip" look...LOL, explain "marbled fat", I have never heard that expression.
We can go a step further and also assume it creates "marbled fat" within the muscle bellies, hence the "no rip" look...Sure. Don't know either way.
LOL, explain "marbled fat", I have never heard that expression.
We can go a step further and also assume it creates "marbled fat" within the muscle bellies, hence the "no rip" look...
i think its guys who bulk up with the aromatase inhibtors runnning high dose test that makes the muscles less cut and more shapeless... thats what estrogen muscle looks like...nope dont think that has anything to do with it. Sorry Canidatedizzle.
uuuummm it wasnt untill the mid 80's when guys really started running testosterone; before then it was considered a dirty soviet union drug...mid 80's is over 20 years ago = decades.
uuuummm it wasnt untill the mid 80's when guys really started running testosterone; before then it was considered a dirty soviet union drug...
lol okay sweet deal flex and chaos i didnt know i was talking to two AAS experts here.. ;D... but anyways hey you want to argue with me about this start a thread on the g&o (if you just want to hate and argue) or on the steroid board (if you actually think you know about AAS)Not hating, candi, but your rebuttal to flex's post was to mention that test wasn't ru in high dosages until the mid 80's, because flex said it had been decades.
Not hating, candi, but your rebuttal to flex's post was to mention that test wasn't ru in high dosages until the mid 80's, because flex said it had been decades.
I don't know what cuases the guts, but I know back in the day of the wasp waist, bbers seemed to take the off season "off" and these days they seem to up the dose.
flex why do you think insulin is the culprit
ok disgusted,
is this bullshit or not. Does the stepmill get your legs more shredded and bring in your glutes and hamstrings better than just doing cardio on a treadmill or bike???
Speak on this!
Short answer, no. ;D
Question:
This is serious and not a joke:
I might be going to jail.
What is a simple or complex cycle (that you have heard works)
That will keep me me big and lean before I go to the big house.
Cycle advice
What muscles do I need to work (not my ass muscles) to survive and stay strong.
This is a serious post and just need advice
Don't gay up this board with your gimmick bullshit. Take that to the G&O.
Disgusted, what is your take on using peptides to speed recovery of injuries? I tore my left bicep distal tendon about 11 weeks ago and I am 10 1/2 weeks post operation right now. I stacked IGF for 6 weeks and GH for 4 weeks along with the nutritional supplement cissus throughout. My Doc said I healed about 3-4 weeks ahead of schedule. I want to think it was the peptides, but who really knows. Do you know of any pros or guys that have used these in the past, post surgery? Thanks man
Are you referring to GH peptides?
No man, I reread what I wrote and see how you took it. I did Pharmaceutical Grade American GH for 4 weeks, starting about 2 weeks after the surgery and the IGF was used at the same time as the GH, and then an addition 2 weeks after that. Thanks man
Yes they wil have an effect. A friend of mine did the same exact thing as you, but don't put any under stress on that tendon before your Dr says you can. Even though it may seem to be healing ahead of schedule, the actual adhesion to the bone takes time. You can tear it off the bone again if you start too soon. Your main goal when you start therapy is to make sure that you get full range of motion back.
disgusted,
at one of the gyms i visit there's a man that screams and shout all the time, no matter what exercise or if it's the first rep or the last.
why is that?
do you recomend t3 while cutting with a keto diet. if so would you keep taking the same amount throughout the prep or slowly increase to dose?
of the 2 approaches which do you believe works best - tkd or ckd?
what else would u be using?? Just using t3 on a contest diet is going to eat up a bunch of muscle. IMHO
do you recomend t3 while cutting with a keto diet. if so would you keep taking the same amount throughout the prep or slowly increase to dose?
of the 2 approaches which do you believe works best - tkd or ckd?
why dont u reccomend T3 Jim?
Is it because it eats up muscle, like a flaming homosexual eats penis?
so what ur saying is.......that most guys are lazy and what to eat a bunch of junk instead of just using good ol fashioned diet and cardio???
Also what are the negatives of using T3??
I generally don't recommend T3 at all wether on a keto diet or not. If so, I would have to evaluate a person based on how one is responding to diet over a 30 day period. Then I most likely favor desiccated thyroid over T3 anyway.interesting, just wanted your thoughts on it. 8)
whats dessicated thyorid, how does it work..... and cant you prohibit t3 from eating muscle by eating enough protein ?
I have a very strong opinion about statins soooo this is only my opinion and I am not suggesting that you in any way construe this as medical advise. IMO stain drugs are deadly and have NOOOOOOOO use in humans. The muscle wasting I have seen in MANY people and it can be deadly and they are very hard on the liver MUCH more than steroids can ever be. I would NEVER take them no matter what.
Sorry disgusted, you must be exagerating there. I'm not advocating BB's take statins "just in case" but they are a very usefull drug for many people. Rhabdomyalisis(muscle breakdown) and elevated liver enzymes are well documented side effects but very rare and you haven't seen them in many people and they are not harder on the liver than steroids. I think you give out lots of good advice on here and I generally like you're style but i couldn't let such a false exageration go unchecked.
Otherwise great thread,
regards,
the Doc :)
Sorry disgusted, you must be exagerating there. I'm not advocating BB's take statins "just in case" but they are a very usefull drug for many people. Rhabdomyalisis(muscle breakdown) and elevated liver enzymes are well documented side effects but very rare and you haven't seen them in many people and they are not harder on the liver than steroids. I think you give out lots of good advice on here and I generally like you're style but i couldn't let such a false exageration go unchecked.
Otherwise great thread,
regards,
the Doc :)
Mr D, what is your opinion of consuming fruit post workout? Say, a banana and an apple... followed by a protein shake a few minutes later...im not disgusted... but just in case you are thinkig about sdoing this today and he hasnt answered by then...... fruits are far from ideal; especially post workout.... for a thousand reasons... good thread on the nutrition board right now about simple carbs post workout.. check it out.... and in it we are talking about glucose which goes to muscles; and fruits aremostly fructose that go to the liver...so take what is said and intensely multiply it... fruits= no no
im not disgusted... but just in case you are thinkig about sdoing this today and he hasnt answered by then...... fruits are far from ideal; especially post workout.... for a thousand reasons... good thread on the nutrition board right now about simple carbs post workout.. check it out.... and in it we are talking about glucose which goes to muscles; and fruits aremostly fructose that go to the liver...so take what is said and intensely multiply it... fruits= no no
Not even a banana? Damn, Mr. C!its just a poor choice of food is all
Mr D, what is your opinion of consuming fruit post workout? Say, a banana and an apple... followed by a protein shake a few minutes later...
Hi Disgusted :)
How do you feel about soy sauce during contest prep? I'm not as concerned about the sodium as much as I am about using a soy-based product. Am I over-thinking things?
Thanks!
Gotta agree with Can bro, some good protein after a workout is best. There is nothing magical about taking in some kind of carb right after a workout.
So you wouldn't really recommend even a much-hyped product like Waxy Maize?
You know CD82 I used waxy maize for months and didnt notice any difference. I think it was all mental ( u know thinking i was getting great gains from it). But then again, i was probably too fat to be taking in all the carbs that I was at that time.
So you wouldn't really recommend even a much-hyped product like Waxy Maize?
I know you recommend a low carb diet Jim, do you advocate a carb up day as well? or do you think that is not needed.
You mean contest dieting? If so, I throw in carbs at specific times so yes, but not ususally on a daily baisis.
Not unless I was taking slin and then I would just take some Carbo Hit.
Not unless I was taking slin and then I would just take some Carbo Hit.
So you dont have a certain diet that you advocate? Like there is no Disgusted diet? Like the Palumbo diet or something like that?
Do you just do whatever that particular person needs depending on how far along they are, how fat they are, how lean they are etc??
This is kinda confusing the way I typed this, but hopefully you can understand so the people that read this can learn something.
so you wouldn't take fast acting carbs pwo at all unless you were using slin?
Pretty much. There are different types of fast acting carbs, but I would never just eat fruit by itself right after a workout. Let's say after a workout I would eat some protein, complex carbs and then nothing wrong with eating some fruit too. When someone takes slin the only reason to take in carbs would be too keep your blood sugar up. Remember, protein builds muscle!
The best answer for this is the shortest and that is that yes, you are over thinking. ;D You are also correct about not worrying about the soium too, imo.
Thanks, that's what I was hoping you would say. :)
What about diet soda during prep?
Thanks, that's what I was hoping you would say. :)
What about diet soda during prep?
what about all this talk of depleting muscle glycogen and the need to restore it? are they wrong?
"They are a scam drug that have ZERO use!"
just not true. very usefull for certain groups of patients eg familial hypercholeserolaemia and high risk cardiac disease. They should not be prescribed carelessly and pt's should be monitored for those important side effects you have highlighted. I'm afraid there are some shortsighted/singleminded docs out there and i'm sorry for those people you know. I'm happy however that you raised the important issue of the mindless prescribing of statins and (many other drugs for that matter) without good reason ie benefit clearly outweighing risk/cost.
Good link Panda :)
"natural question asker" ::)Good cover up! :D
Just my $0.02 I think your brainfucking yourself Lori :)
I don't see a problem with it although I would cut it out about 10 days out since it has a lot of chemicals in it.
LOL I am just asking!! I like to ask questions, it gives me more stuff toobsess overthink about.
Thanks. :)
Why wouldn't it be restored by eating the type of meal that I gave in my last post?
I was just looking at some Trey Brewer pics from the jr. nats and I got curious.
1. What is the effective dose of DNP.
2. What is the lethal dose of DNP.
3. And do u know anybody who has died from using it???
4. Also what do u think of usnic acid, since it works similarly to DNP.
Because it takes the body time to digest the complex carbs while dextrose (or similiar) is pretty quickly absorbed and in your bloodstream?
Jim,
What's your opinion on estrogen control drugs like Arimidex and Letro? 1 mg daily is the most that I would use of either.
Do they serve a purpose in a basic bulking cycle? Depends on the person. Yes if you are the type to hold a ton of water. I would start with .5mg daily.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Does finasteride and other DHT blockers effect AAS gains? Not at t he recommended dose. Going too high will effect your sex drive so be careful.
Does mixing finasteride and Deca actually make male pattern baldness worse? Not in my opinion. I know some guys that never lose a hair no matter what they take. Personally I would just avoid that drug that makes my hair fall out all together.
Thank you.
8)
BTW, Mr D, here's two quick ones:
Evolution or Creationism?
Ass or titties?
I was just looking at some Trey Brewer pics from the jr. nats and I got curious.
1. What is the effective dose of DNP. It can kill you!
2. What is the lethal dose of DNP. It can kill you!
3. And do u know anybody who has died from using it??? Supposedly Curtis Lieffler
4. Also what do u think of usnic acid, since it works similarly to DNP. Known a few guys to use it and honestly they didn't really see any difference with it that diet alone gave them anyway.
I was just looking at some Trey Brewer pics from the jr. nats and I got curious.
1. What is the effective dose of DNP.
2. What is the lethal dose of DNP.
3. And do u know anybody who has died from using it???
4. Also what do u think of usnic acid, since it works similarly to DNP.
disgusted do you think there is any benefit to using a high dose af an ai while cutting up? i have heard guys will take 2-3mg adex or 5mg femara leading up to a show..
True but what is the advantage of quicker absorption?
Bring the body out of a catabolic state as soon as possible?why would you be catabolic? your diet needs improvement if your catabolic at the end of every workout dude.
Do you do it like this for contest prep only or offseason too?
Btw, some info on sodium usniate
Sodium usniate
Recently a chemical isolated from the Kombucha plant has been marketed as a weight-loss agent. Sodium usniate disassociates into sodium and usnic acid. In one study using mouse liver mitochondria, only 1 micromole of usnic acid completely abolished oxidative phosphorylation, while 50 times more DNP was needed to do the same thing. Because of it’s strong effects, there is no doubt that this agent can increase weight loss, even though no human studies have validated this notion. However, numerous side effects are associated with Kombucha used as a tea and usnic acid itself. Medline is filled with reports of unexplained illnesses, liver problems, and allergic reactions associated with Kombucha tea consumption. In addition, usnic acid is toxic to a variety of cells lines from different species. It’s possible that other agents from Kombucha are causing the problems reported and not the usnic acid. However, given the toxicity of usnic acid to cells and the fact that it is a much stronger inhibitor of oxidative phosphorylation than DNP, it would be wise to hold off on using this agent until more research is known. If it turns out to be safe for use, than it will still help you to lose body fat. If it turns out to have some complications associated with it, then you saved yourself a load of hassles.
yes, they are both uncoupling agents.
It does?!?! ??? :-\
why would you be catabolic? your diet needs improvement if your catabolic at the end of every workout dude.
weightlifting is catabolic...i feel pretty empty after a session of back & bis.
I eat oatmeal, eggs & tuna 1-2hrs before 60g carbs and 40g protein
weightlifting is catabolic...i feel pretty empty after a session of back & bis.nah man, you wont be catabolic if youve eaten that 1-2 hours before you workout.
I eat oatmeal, eggs & tuna 1-2hrs before 60g carbs and 40g protein
Hi Jim ! I always struggled with apetite...sometimes I only feel like eating 3 times a day...I try to reducethe cARBS and focus on protein. Since the time I worked with Ron Love, I learned to incorporate plenty of omega 3 fats in my bulking or cutting diets...At the same time, he always had me doing cardio in the offseason, and eating quite clean. Is it ok like this ? Or should I go nuts on any type of food to gain as much weight as possible...?
I may get some flack about this but whatever... I'll never understand why people rush to drink a glass of sugar directly after their workouts. You ate a good solid meal before your workout so eat another of the same. If you prefer to drink a meal then fine but try and have the same ratio of your macro nutrients as you did with your preworkout meal.
A lot of guys take insulin (which I do not recommend) after their workouts so they need to cover their ass with carbs, but this is totally different. To answer the next question ;D... Remember that it is one thing to use insulin to grow and another to overload glycogen stores the last few days before a show.
Interesting! I am on a cutting diet now too, maybe i should try it for a while and see if there is a difference.
I looked at this guys diet, he is natural and ripped as hell! He is using waxy maize 30-80g carbs pwo. Doesn't seem to have any negative effect on him. http://brianwhitacre.net/
I think that you are looking for a magic bullet bro. Waxy maze has little to do with why this kid is so ripped. He could replace the waxy maze with grape juice and it would make no difference. This diet is very precise for him and is nothing more than a standard low cal balanced diet.
I'm using a very similar diet he is and it is working great! However i doubt that i will ever get as ripped as him. I thought it was interesting to note that he is using simple sugar pwo and it doesn't seem to hinder his progress.
Then again every Coleman video i watch he never has a pwo shake, just eats regular meals before and after.
The question is not why it would hinder his progress, but why would it? His diet is basic calorie counting and this drink is part of his daily intake. Nothing special about the drink. Like I said before, he could drink grape juice and it would make no difference.
As far as not being able to get as ripped as him, WHY THE HELL NOT! Have some faith in yourself, you can get as ripped as you want. Peace
bobby - oatmeal + whey is perfect ! :)
fatpanda- the studies ive seen compare either [NOTHINg verse carbs+protein] OR [CARBS verse CARBS PLUS PROTEIN].... theres no reasnon why carbs + protein would make you grow any faster than protein alone POST WORKOUT... because post workout protein synthesis is alread jacked to the fullest and the body is going to be growing at its fastest rate possible -insulin/carbs or no insulin/carbs- as long as you provide it with amino acids.
yes i too have seen these studies however insulin improves amino uptake into the muscle, along with other nutrients i.e. water, glucose etc. which all help optimise muscle growth.
yes. very true. BUT, heres the thing. the human body can only gsynthesize new muscle tissue at a certain rate. regardless of how much gear, how much insulin, how much amino acids, how much essential fats, how sedentray you are... there IS a limit at how fast the human can can build up muscle tissue. once youve reached this ultimate pace of growth, adding in any more of any of the growth factors is simply useless; because even if the body wants T GROW FASTER, IT CANT. BECAUSE IT CAN ONLY GROW SO FAST! (sorry about the caps) post training, the body is primed to synthesize protein as fast as it possible can. even in a natural bodybuilder. so drinking fast digesting amino acids that build up a big concentration ini the blood stream will be beneficial; since you can utilize them. BUT, drinking a bunch of c arbohydrates and jacking insulin up wont make you be able to grow any faster, since post training you are already at that ultimate growth pace!
as you know insulin combined smartly with pre/post workout meals has added 40lbs of muscle to bodybuiders on average since it became widespread. Just read some of milos's stuff on here. 100% i agree that insulin is a huge growth factor. but they are using insulin at all times of the day. morning noon and night. both fast acting and slow acting forms of insulin that cause you to have this intense growth factor pretty much all day long. thats why they grow
but they are using insulin at all times of the day. morning noon and night. both fast acting and slow acting forms of insulin that cause you to have this intense growth factor pretty much all day long. thats why they grow
That's not what Milos says. Around workouts only.6 hour long workouts? :D
6 hour long workouts? :DThey don't workout for 6 hours ::) It's actually a very quick workout.
They don't workout for 6 hours ::) It's actually a very quick workout.um...derrrrrr.... it was a joke about slow acting insulin... i guess if i had written the excact clearance time of humilin, then you may have gotten it.. but maybe not
And you know this how? When have you ever trained with anyone that used insulin? When have you used insulin?
anyways, the point is they DO NOT use insulin ONLY around workouts.
And you know this how? When have you ever trained with anyone that used insulin? When have you used insulin?it would be like saying " yes we use testosterone but we only use test susp and we only use it around workouts...
it would be like saying " yes we use testosterone but we only use test susp and we only use it around workouts...So you don't know.......
... SUUURRRREEEEEEE you do buddy :D
That's not what Milos says. Around workouts only.
Taylor,never fuck with insulin bro...........at your level,if you must use gear,it should be test only and at minimum dosages............say 500 mg./wk.way to make it personal by using my real name :D
I once ate chicken & brown rice for a year post-workout and noticed no difference from when I drank a shake with dextrose after training................ .....except I wasn`t hungry again as fast.
Shakes = convience and something to take in a pinch or to augment the diet with.
You can make the same or better gains eating solid food throughout the day and even at post-workout.
it would be like saying " yes we use testosterone but we only use test susp and we only use it around workouts...
... SUUURRRREEEEEEE you do buddy :D
i do have solid meals around the workout, but i made my best gains when i stuffed my face like a pig after the workout as opposed to a small meal, and another an hour later. - i feel it was down to large insulin spike and extra calories around the workout + a synergistic effect between the 2.
i think milos would be better placed to answer this question than disgusted, as i don't think he agree's with insulin in general? (disgusted am i right? )
where as milos is the insulin godfather.
ive watched that many times as well bobby. milos says high glycemic carbs are good because they help replenish glycogen fat so you can train again the same day.
if you ever go train with milos he will eat starburst or other junk post training as a source of carb though
candi are we still meeting for training next week? On 11th street or Tracy Blvd (the newer one)?
Really, he does ???
if you ever go train with milos he will eat starburst or other junk post training as a source of carb though
Really, he does ???this is what ive heard :D
ive watched that many times as well bobby. milos says high glycemic carbs are good because they help replenish glycogen fat so you can train again the same day.
if you ever go train with milos he will eat starburst or other junk post training as a source of carb though
Alex, flex and candi............take it to another board so I don't have to delete posts from Disgusteds thread.
:-*
Damn, I'm gone for the day and come back to a great debate. Ok, ain't got too much time to go into detail now, but short answers for now.yeah! i read this guy too. i think it was on anabolex ? he came up with a theory that you didnt need carbs to not go hypo, all you needed was sufficient amino acids for gluconeogenesis ! pretty sweet that he tried it out ! haha. kinda risky :o
Post workout Wes is correct. Solid food IMO is best 99% of time.
I personally have always wondered if there was any advantage to taking slin only after workouts. Is there any real solid proof that these nutrients are getting used any better just because you happened to train a certain bodypart? Milos does at times advocate using it prework also so it is not written in stone for just post workout.
I am also not (totally) convinced that the growth that people get is due to a standard anabolic effect in the same manner that steroids work. I did once read about a guy who did not use carbs while taking slin and gained about 10 solid pounds and no fat gain. He used protein and fat as far as food goes. I do not remember at all about how he did this so don't ask. I wish I could remember, but even if I did I do not think that there is any advantage to it anyway.
yeah! i read this guy too. i think it was on anabolex ? he came up with a theory that you didnt need carbs to not go hypo, all you needed was sufficient amino acids for gluconeogenesis ! pretty sweet that he tried it out ! haha. kinda risky :o
I personally have always wondered if there was any advantage to taking slin only after workouts. Is there any real solid proof that these nutrients are getting used any better just because you happened to train a certain bodypart? Milos does at times advocate using it prework also so it is not written in stone for just post workout.
Yeah and asking Milos to explain in detail why it works so much better used around workouts is useless too. He thinks everyone who doesn't immediately accept the theory as fact is just a stupid basement dwelling teenager. :D
Same with his recent rants about individual amino acids causing much more growth than protein from solid foods. He would have a hard time defending why aminos are better IMO but he is too arrogant to engage in serious debate.
BTW Disgusted, what do you think of the LBA protein Phil Hernon sells?
i may be wrong, but i think insulin is best used around the workout due to a theory that insulin stores nutrients in the area of the body that its currently in, (via blood) so during a workout most of the blood of the body is in the muslces, so thats where the storage takes place.
if insulin is used anytime not around workouts then the blood is evenly distributed and nutrients are evenly stored throughout the body.
Sometimes I ask a question or two when trying to answer a question. So I ask you
1. What nutrients are stored in the muscles?
2. How are these nutrients responsible for growth?
3. (If) most of the blood in the body during a workout is in the muscles being trained what extra percentage of blood is in that area and is it different according to the muscle being worked?
4. If all the above is true then how is insulin responsible for the extra growth that occures?
http://www.exchangesupplies.org/conferences/NCIDU/2007_NCIDU/speakers/william_llewellyn.html
http://www.exchangesupplies.org/conferences/NCIDU/2007_NCIDU/speakers/william_llewellyn.html
you might like that
bill llewellyn speech on insulin use
Hey guys. Chaos invited me to join this thread but I am not sure what is in question?
I suppose INSULIN - but I am not sure...
I did manage to read first post on this page and off course - my best friend Van B again nicely puts: Milos doesn't want to elaborate and considers everyone stupid IF they don't listen to his advice...type of comment...
Well, I am here to possibly answer some questions and certainly not to argue and fight...
Disgusted is someone I respect and like (so far I've seen only the very best from him...) so - if I can contribute here on his thread - I certainly will. At least I'll try. Problem is - that I do work for living...and I can take too many "breaks" (when I visit this board) like I did before...
But, I'll try...
So - what's the question?
I did manage to read first post on this page and off course - my best friend Van B again nicely puts: Milos doesn't want to elaborate and considers everyone stupid IF they don't listen to his advice...type of comment...
if you need to take an exact amount of carbs to match an insulin injection to avoid 'problems'/ exact amount of insulin to match carb intake, why do you need exogenous insulin at all as your body already produces the exact amount of insulin for any amount of carbs you eat already, what benefit is there in injecting insulin then?
and how has this added 40lb muscle increase ?
Dr Scott Connely has been working on special milk protein fractions that he claims have dramatic effects.i just ordered some truprotein milk protein isolate 50% + whey protein isolate 50% !!
:)
i just ordered some truprotein milk protein isolate 50% + whey protein isolate 50% !!
i am excited now after reading connely likes milk fractions too !
if you need to take an exact amount of carbs to match an insulin injection to avoid 'problems'/ exact amount of insulin to match carb intake, why do you need exogenous insulin at all as your body already produces the exact amount of insulin for any amount of carbs you eat already, what benefit is there in injecting insulin then?Here is one question on insulin about the benefitof it as well as how it's use leads to a 40lb muscle increase.......
and how has this added 40lb muscle increase ?
I asked you why you didn't use low molecular weight carbs as the carb source in your product since you seemed to consider them superior.
Here is one question on insulin about the benefitof it as well as how it's use leads to a 40lb muscle increase.......
Guys, I will responed in length later today. Got a virus on my computer. :(That absolutely sucks, that's about the time I f*cking hate computers. >:(
perhaps i did not explain or ask very well chaos or perhaps you missed the point of the question - yes 40lb increases in muscle amoung the pro's is obviously a benefit of taking insulin.I thought I understood it, that's why I quoted your post so he could read it himself.
But how does exogenous insulin work better than endogenous insulin? and why does it produce these jumps in muscle mass? can endogenous insulin not produce these same results with clever nutrition?
I'll give an example of a question I asked that you didn't really answer. Remember how you hyped Vitargo a while back? I asked you why you didn't use low molecular weight carbs as the carb source in your product since you seemed to consider them superior. I'm not saying it would necessarily improve the product as I think you can get the same result from whey + dextrose as your product but you said you only put the best of the best in your product.
....
I'm personally not convinced Free Form Aminos are superior to whole food protein sources (if you include something like whey as a whole food), and I think you'd get the same EAA blood elevations from whey - maybe slightly delayed. And if speed is what you want I think peptides have been shown to be even faster than EAAs. And then you shouldn't forget that whole food sources have other beneficial effects from a health and growth standpoint. Immune system and antioxidant support from whey for example. Dr Scott Connely has been working on special milk protein fractions that he claims have dramatic effects. So, I don't think Free Form Aminos are the future in cutting edge supplementation as you think.
:)
MILOS WHEN YOU COME BACK I AM INTERESTED IN THE CAFFIEN ISSUE...IF YOU HAVE USED IT TO PREVENT FAT ACCUMLUATION WITH INSULIN ADMINISTRATION..ALSO, IF YOU COULD OUTLINE YOUR SPECIFIC INSULIN PROTOCOL
(i didnt mean for the caps lock)
i would like an answer to my question if possible, or a link to a study that would explain it. :)
Hey guys. Chaos invited me to join this thread but I am not sure what is in question?
Well, I am here to possibly answer some questions and certainly not to argue and fight...
Disgusted is someone I respect and like (so far I've seen only the very best from him...) so - if I can contribute here on his thread - I certainly will. At least I'll try. Problem is - that I do work for living...and I can take too many "breaks" (when I visit this board) like I did before...
But, I'll try...
So - what's the question?
Hi Kung-Fu Panda...or just Fat (?) Panda...?
Would you like it - immediately, right away, this second...or...some time in the far/near future? ::)
Now, can you also (if possible?) THINK before you ask the question - so I don't have to answer: "grass is green, sky is blue...and Coach is as fat as Kung-Fu Panda"... ;)
Van, NO - I don't remember your example and a question...Where/when did you ask me that?
Now - I do remember TALKING about VITARGO and I was mentioning POSSIBLE BENEFITS and/or ADVENTAGES over simple monomers, dimers or some polymers when saccharides are in question...but right there you are making obvious mistake:
VITARGO is HIGH MOLECULAR WEIGHT (NOT LOW ::)) glucose polymer and as you mention IF I believed it is superior - why didn't I use it?
I experimented with Vitargo and other GLYCO(mono/di/oligo/poly)MERS with variety of molecular weight/osmolility...And, what I found is that IF sub 75grams servings are used - there is hardly noticeable difference...
While in theory VITARGO and other high molecular weight glucose polymers (waxy maize, cluster-dextrins...) have favorable osmolility and much faster (and therefore beneficial) gastric emptying...in reality THAT IS HARDLY A CASE.
Especially as I said - when amounts of carbs per servings DO NOT EXCEED 75 grams (most commonly 25-50 grams) than I really don't see a reason spending even MORE MONEY on making already expensive product (like my KNS 3 stage hyper-anabolic system).
If reasoning to take any glucose polymer is to get molecule of glucose at the end...than why not just give EXACTLY what body is asking for: a GLUCOSE (or DEXTROSE)...which is rather - dirt cheep!
I would much rather spend my money on HIGH QUALITY AJINOPURE AMINO ACIDS (by far superior to just about any other AA on the supplement market - IMHO) than invest money on VITARGO...If I could color my KNS amino acid bland - I will guaranteely see EXACT COLOR of the muscle fibers of particular trained muscle - which I trained using my BEFORE-DURING-POST KNS shakes...the very next day....
I will also - much rather spend the money on IV solution grade pharmaceutical amino acids (AJINOPURE from Ajinomoto) produced by process of fermentation than some questionable (mostly Chinese...and should I suggest: potentially toxic?) amino acids made out of human hair (as it is industry standard...which nobody talks about it...)...YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT...and IF YOU USE HYPEREMIA ADVANTAGE (as I do - during the training + specific supplementation) that saying becames a FACT!
Ooops - got to go...I'll come back ASAIC...
Alright, thanks for the answer. My bad on the "low", should have been "high molecular weight". ::) :D
Yes I thought it was probably too expensive to use for a small potential advantage.
Don't know if there is any difference in the amino acids no matter what it's derived from. Layne Norton, who is an expert, said there is no difference.* I also asked a few big supp companies and they denied using human hair aminos - I think it was just one amino that was commonly made from hair - I think glycine.
*
http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showpost.php?p=219820&postcount=112
I could say a lot here, but i'll settle for telling you that you were a pro who i admired for various reasons, not lease of all you willingness to help others. I also felt you have kept your dignity when others have went out of their way to insult and ridicule you.
Your response to my question after i asked a perfectly polite and civil question (after you invite questions), does injustice to me, disgusted and the others who have tried to participate in an interesting discussion.
you have went down in my estimation, and while you no doubt don't care one bit about that, you should be aware that you have only highlighted why disgusted gets so much respect around here, while you struggle.
Thanks for nothing.
Van, fair enough...Play nice Milos, no need for rash discussions. :-X
But, I will suggest that we don't take too much of Disgusting space/thread...and move our conversation on my thread right bellow... ;D
What??? Jim, I said something wrong? ;D...Speak no English excuse doesn't work this time?
Anyway, how is your rash? Getting better? ;D*** Reminder *** Keep it positive or your post will be deleted ;D ;D ;D****** Reminder *** Keep it positive or your post will be deleted 8) 8) 8)****** Reminder *** Keep it positive or your post will be deleted :-* :-* :-****
Milo's or Disgusted...What do you guys recommend to keep muscles full when on a extreme ketogenic diet...Instead of glucose if possible?..Things like creatine, etc? Thanks guys...creatine draws water in a different way and not the way u really want it.bloated and watery isn't the same as a full dry thin skinned look with fullness.
creatine draws water in a different way and not the way u really want it.bloated and watery isn't the same as a full dry thin skinned look with fullness.
Damn, finally got that "virus" ;D under control. Turns out all I needed was some antibiotics. :P Seriously though, I'm no computer dummy but this sucked.
Panda, Props to your answers to my questions a few pages ago! Ok, it has been so long that I honestly forget what the heck I was supposed to answer sooooo, what was it again that someone asked?
So whats your thoughts on vince gironda :)
He was the man, a real pioneer on a lot of different training techiques and diet too. Vince was not a big fan of steroids but he also was not stupid and he knew that a lot of the guys who trained in his gym took them. I think that everyone should read up on his theories. You may not agree on everything that he said but I am sure you can learn some valuable info.
The problem with most guys and trainers who use the low to no carb diets is they do not know how to get that last bit of fat off of someone.
Hello disgusted, hope you have a good 4th today
I have a question on my diet: I just finished cutting and i did the keto diet for about 12 weeks...I got lean, but not super ripped. I went from 234 down to 202 at 9% bodyfat and I was able to hold onto my muscle.
This is my current diet right now...my goals are to slowly add muscle and not gain a lot of bodyfat. being i was on keto for 12 weeks i didnt want to start adding tons of carbs right away and overlaod my body:
1)5 omega eggs w/ some salsa, 3/4 cup slow cooked oats, handful of berries
2)50g of VPX low carb protein, handful cashews
3)8 oz chicken, small sweet potoatoe or ezekiel wrap,(like 30g of carbs) veggies, and 2 tbsp organic guacomole(about 12g of fat)
4)pre workout, same as meal 2
5)post workout...3 scoops of universal torrent w/ a nitro pack...then 30 minutes later, 50g beverly muscle provider
6)8 oz of top round steak, 1 cup green veggies............or 8 oz chicken 1 cup green veggies 1.5tbsp natural peanut butter
cheat meal is once per week
cardio is 2-3 times a week for 30 mins post workout
my supps are:
fish oil
evening primrose oil
dessicated liver
amino tabs
do u have any critiques? do u have an opinion of how many carbs i should have per meal?
thanks!
In todays world that diet will not get someone extremely ripped, but it is good start. It needs to be modified in some ways to keep the progress going. Back in the day one did not need to get shredded so this diet was all that was needed. I do think that most, but not all the supps he recommends are of worth too. The problem with most guys and trainers who use the low to no carb diets is they do not know how to get that last bit of fat off of someone.
Should they alter there strategy to get that last bit off? When I Low carb i never really hit a sticking point..However, on the other hand i don't get to bodybuilding type levels of bodyfat..
Milo's or Disgusted...What do you guys recommend to keep muscles full when on a extreme ketogenic diet...Instead of glucose if possible?..Things like creatine, etc? Thanks guys...
D,
Whats your thoughts on offseason cardio. Do you recommend it? And if so, what are your usual recomendations?
I don't recommend it in short. Of course, if you are nothing but a slug who only workouts out say 3 times a week and does very little in the way of moving around ;D then nothing wrong with getting on the treadmill 3 or 4 times per week for say maybe 20 to 30 min.
Hi Disgusted or Milos, quick question(s) here...u know milos has his own QandA as well :)
Im currently cutting, not for a show or anything, just to get down to a more respectable BF %. Im currently following a keto diet (Palumbo) and am doing cardio first thing in the morning.
1. What is your thought on post workout cardio? I want to maybe start doing 2 cardio sessions a day to see how that goes.
2.If i do post workout cardio, should i have a quick whey shake first, then do the cardio, or just do the cardio right after weights? Also, morning cardio is for about 45-50 mins, should post workout cardio be for the same duration as in the morning?
Cheers.
And what about an offseason MRP shake? do you have any that are good sources of pro/carb and fats?
I have about a million questions to ask you but ill try to keep it to only a few per week :)
Nothing special about MRPs. I would only use them when you can not possibly eat a solid meal. I think that Metrex makes a lower sugar one at least they used to and I am sure that others have followed. I would try and find one that is low in sugar and has a good amount of protein and essential fats in it.
u know milos has his own QandA as well :)
Hi Disgusted or Milos, quick question(s) here...
Im currently cutting, not for a show or anything, just to get down to a more respectable BF %. Im currently following a keto diet (Palumbo) and am doing cardio first thing in the morning.
1. What is your thought on post workout cardio? I want to maybe start doing 2 cardio sessions a day to see how that goes.
2.If i do post workout cardio, should i have a quick whey shake first, then do the cardio, or just do the cardio right after weights? Also, morning cardio is for about 45-50 mins, should post workout cardio be for the same duration as in the morning?
Cheers.
What about your own homemade one? Do you have any recipes for a home MRP? I was just thinking when im stuck at work for 16 hours, i know MRP's will come in handy.
And yea I dont like the way the already made ones taste. Id rather do my own.
Nothing wrong with doing cardio after your workout. You can maybe sip on some whey protein and some carbs if you are doing a long session escpecially if you re training for a show but make sure to account for the cals in your diet. Duration is up to you. If doing 2 sessions per day then I personally like to split the time in half if possible.
Yeah, i just noticed that Milos was posting in this thread too...
BTW, good work with everything thats happening here on the Positive Board. Great to have Milos and Disgusted here anwsering questions. I mean hell, King was even back posting again :o
Honestly there are too many options out there and at a good price to bother making your own.
True, You are indeed the smartest man Ive ever conversed with, so ill take your word.
So just whole food then primarily is best offseason and pre contest??
And only take shakes if you NEED too?
You must not have talked to too many people, but thanks. ;D Basically yes as far as whole food goes. Don't get me wrong, there are times when MRPs are very convenient to use and there are some good ones out there, but I would not go overboard. Two per day would be max, but on the other side of the coin I have heard of guys who pretty much exist on them at times. I just think that overall whole food is alway superior in the long run.
2 shakes and 3-4 whole food meals a day would be optimal in the offseason then id assume?
Yep. :)
disgusted, whats your opinion on eca use during a tkd type diet?
I think its fine. I alway start out sparingly on any kind of CNS product jus to play it safe.
i find it hard to take any more than 1 a day or i can't sleep.(works great though)
its the only fat loss drug that effects me - clen doesn't effect me ( i have asthma and think my inhaler has made me immune) t3 didn't do anything, even dnp didn't work ( well it did for sides but no fat loss >:( )
How much are you taking and what time of the day and when do you get up and go to bed. ;D
take it at 8am in the morning with caffeine tab. 33mg eph ( i know weird dosage) and 200mg Caf.
go to bed at around 11pm
whats the point of bcaa's? ;D
Just essential aimnos, nothing wrong with them.don't you get essential amino's in real food, why bother with the cost?
disgusted what do you think about the whole "androgen receptor downregulation" theories that say that steroids lose their effectiveneess over time.. ??? of course we all know that you will never grow as fast as you do on your first cycle of steroids... and that the bigger you get the slower the pounds come... BUT, you think there is any accuracy to these calims that you gotta come off in order for steroids to start working again? i mean, most pros are on year round arent they ?
I have seen guys stay on for years and remain huge and then seen them come off for whatever reason. When they get back on they are no bigger or different than before. Now remember, I am not talking about health here. I do believe that your receptors can be made to except more over time....this is what i wanted to hear :D
don't you get essential amino's in real food, why bother with the cost?
Jim,
I was reading "Why animals do not have heart attacks...and people do!" and i found it to be a very interesting book.
I haven't read EVERY page word for word but I've skimmed through the entire thing more or less.
Questions.
1. What is the best form of Vit C in your opinion? Apples, oranges...etc.
2. How often should they be eaten and WHEN? Morning, post WO?...etc.
3. Should the Vitamins/minerals be taken with or without food?
Thank you for the book recommendations, i am now reading protein power.
8)
Question for both Jim and Milos:
We know that insulin use, injections after a workout gives you high amounts of insulin and that makes bodybuilders grow alot.
1. If one person does not take insulin but has a pwo shake with high simple sugar carbs, like 80g dextrose. Would that spike insulin levels and have similar effects of slin injections? (obviously not as powerful though)
2.
a) Do you think that exogenous insulin use can cause a bigger midsection?
b) If so, do you think spiking your own insulin can cause it too?
Doesn't matter where you get your C as far as food intake goes but you will not be able to get the amount that I personally think that you will need just from food.
Vit C has a short half life so I take mine twice per day. 4 grams morning and night.
I like to take them with food. you need to build up the dose of Vit C gradually. Too much too quick may cause some diarrhea.
Both those books are awesome books. Glad you like them. Read them both more than once. You will learn something different each time you read them.
Yo Disgustarino!
What are your thoughts on zinc and magnesium supplementation. Ive always argued that they are two of the most important minerals for bodybuilders to take (since most hard training athletes are deficient in both) . What do u think?
Very true, i was wrong to assume that. But i would only hope that you would be able to put on more muscle if your putting on 70lbs in an offseason like LunchTrey did :)
So what your telling me is that its better to stay lean in the offseason while gaining size so you dont have to diet your ass off and suffer to diet down for a contest?
Why dont you go back to the Opinions section with your wise ass comments about Trey - this area is for "Positive" posts.
Hi Trey! :D
Disgusted, I have a question. I am prepping for the North Americans, and I am about seven weeks out right now. I'm weighing about 128 pounds, trying to make the LWs at 115. Typically, I do morning cardio on an empty stomach, then I eat breakfast, work all day, do a second cardio session as soon as work is done, have a protein shake or small meal, and go to the gym at night to lift about 5 times a week. Then I have another small meal after weight training.
I'm struggling with recovery and fatigue, and I have just loaded up on pretty much the only supplements that I think are worth taking - glutamine and BCAAs. How much would you recommend I take, how often, and when should I take them? The glutamine is in powder form, and the BCAAs are caps.
BE careful of your BCAA timining. I learned the hard way that taking BCAAs before bed can actually affect your sleep. I quit and now sleep a lot better. As for recovery and fatigue, NAP. Seriously. you sound like you're on the go from the minute you wake up until bed time. Find time to take an hour nap midday. It'll get you through the afternoon a lot better.
i know a few guys who are at the top of the posrt who take bcaa's before bed , doesnt effect their sleep...
Interesting... that's why I am wondering when and how often I should take the BCAAs. I didn't mention that I do also take ZMA before bed, along with Palumbo's fat burner, which has melatonin in it. I also won't hesitate to take a xanax before bed if I feel like I can't sleep because it's so critical that I actually do sleep for the 6-7 hours that I am able to get some rest.
Napping is a total luxury, and I am jealous of anyone who can afford the time to do it. :P
Interesting... that's why I am wondering when and how often I should take the BCAAs. I didn't mention that I do also take ZMA before bed, along with Palumbo's fat burner, which has melatonin in it. I also won't hesitate to take a xanax before bed if I feel like I can't sleep because it's so critical that I actually do sleep for the 6-7 hours that I am able to get some rest.
Napping is a total luxury, and I am jealous of anyone who can afford the time to do it. :P
Are yout alking about somalyze species stuff? How'd find it?
Why dont you go back to the Opinions section with your wise ass comments about Trey - this area is for "Positive" posts.
Hi Trey! :D
Disgusted, I have a question. I am prepping for the North Americans, and I am about seven weeks out right now. I'm weighing about 128 pounds, trying to make the LWs at 115. Typically, I do morning cardio on an empty stomach, then I eat breakfast, work all day, do a second cardio session as soon as work is done, have a protein shake or small meal, and go to the gym at night to lift about 5 times a week. Then I have another small meal after weight training.
I'm struggling with recovery and fatigue, and I have just loaded up on pretty much the only supplements that I think are worth taking - glutamine and BCAAs. How much would you recommend I take, how often, and when should I take them? The glutamine is in powder form, and the BCAAs are caps.
Hi Trey! :D
Disgusted, I have a question. I am prepping for the North Americans, and I am about seven weeks out right now. I'm weighing about 128 pounds, trying to make the LWs at 115. Typically, I do morning cardio on an empty stomach, then I eat breakfast, work all day, do a second cardio session as soon as work is done, have a protein shake or small meal, and go to the gym at night to lift about 5 times a week. Then I have another small meal after weight training.
I'm struggling with recovery and fatigue, and I have just loaded up on pretty much the only supplements that I think are worth taking - glutamine and BCAAs. How much would you recommend I take, how often, and when should I take them? The glutamine is in powder form, and the BCAAs are caps.
Disgusted great to have you with this Q&A section !! What do you feel are the best carbs to carb up on leading into a show say if your following the 3 day deplete 3 day load protocol . If I dieted down on Oatmeal , Sweet Potatoes , Red Potatoes , and Brown Rice cakes would it be smart to use those or go with a quicker acting source such as white rice or white rice cakes , banana's , natural jelly , honey etc and even waxy maize possibly the first two days to fill out better or do you feel since your body's not used to those carbs it might backfire ? What do you feel is the most effective way to carb up and really dry up the last week not using insulin by the way not asking for a complete layout just as far as what are the best carbs in your opinon ? Thanks in advance for any response !
u got any pix of what u looked like before jim helped u out?
LOL OK well OF COURSE the easiest solution would be to add more time in the day and sleep another 30 mins or hour every night, but that's not going to happen!
This is my fourth year of contest prep, so I pretty much have my schedule set as good as I can, given everything else going on in my life. My husband races motorcycles and needs all of the daylight hours in the summertime, so we end up going to the gym in the later part of the evening, and I have no choice but to get my cardio done earlier or else I would be up doing cardio at 11 o'clock every night. It's either do it this way or don't do contest prep at all. :)
So having said that, when do you think would be the best time to take glutamine and BCAAs, and how much? Or do you think I just wasted my money on these supps?
Thanks. :)
I don't think that you are wasting your money, but I really don't think that it matters when you take it. With that being said I would recommend you take for your weight 5 grams of glutamine and for the BC go 500 mgs 2 to 3 times daily.
Awesome, thanks!
This is a great thread... thanks for taking the time. :)
Question 1 No, the fat storing effects are stronger than the anabolic effects. You MIGHT be able to get a better anabolic effect and a lower fat storing effect by lowering your carb intake but I personally don;t think it all that effective.
Question 2 yes!!!
Question 3 Yes!!!!
Question for both Jim and Milos:
We know that insulin use, injections after a workout gives you high amounts of insulin and that makes bodybuilders grow alot.
1. If one person does not take insulin but has a pwo shake with high simple sugar carbs, like 80g dextrose. Would that spike insulin levels and have similar effects of slin injections? (obviously not as powerful though)
2.
a) Do you think that exogenous insulin use can cause a bigger midsection?
b) If so, do you think spiking your own insulin can cause it too?
Can you elaborate on YES for second question?
How exactly does that (physiologically) happen?
I was asked the same question and my answer was (and still is) NO! ;)
1. YES
2a. NO
2b. NO
Now I am answering those questions with consideration that person does WHAT IS RIGHT THING TO DO with insulin, carbs, protein...etc...
Otherwise, if I would answer the same questions considering IF someone does STUPID things while taking insulin, carbs...etc - answer would be different...
Jim just to let u know. This is probably the best thread on getbig !!! Thanx
What movie did u watch?
I watched Beerfest. Wasn't too bad. I thought Gunter played his role well.
Jim what do you think of carb loading,,,,,,,,and dropping?
1. YES
2a. NO
2b. NO
Now I am answering those questions with consideration that person does WHAT IS RIGHT THING TO DO with insulin, carbs, protein...etc...
Otherwise, if I would answer the same questions considering IF someone does STUPID things while taking insulin, carbs...etc - answer would be different...
Yes, butt ;D I am going to watch a movie now sooooo will get back you on this. 8)
What was the movie? King Camel and his Toe nail? :-X
Sorry...I just saw your post...Beerfest?
I am curious about Gunter's acting ability...I believe he could be really good...Just like Roland...
So when Ronnie says in this video he goes six days of "low carbs" and one day of "high carbs"....Does that one day of high carbs just mean the day that he takes insulin for that week???
Not really enough info to know for sure. Although Chad supossedly liked to use slin only one day per week. Some guys may not count slin meals as carb meals so when they say low carb day they may mean that other than their slin meals it's low carb.k makes sense, but yea i asked because i know that chad likes to do only one insulin day during the week.
k makes sense, but yea i asked because i know that chad likes to do only one insulin day during the week.
But im curious, what would be the advantages to that?
Use of very fast acting Humalog done morning noon and night after training once or twice per week at max., done on leg and back day. Done this way to control insulin sensitivity. Theory is to hit it hard 3 times per day then stop so as not to build up a tolerance to it's effects.
speakin of insulin, whats your thoughts on glucose disposal agents such as chromium, vanadyl, rala, and others?
Not worth it. :(
Thanks in advance Disgusted.
1. What number of calories over maintenance levels (where you are not gaining or losing weight) should a natural bodybuilder go to, to gain mass without gaining too much fat? Lets say my maintenance calories are 3,000.
2. Should a natural bodybuilder go on a "bulking" phase for maximum results (eating crazy amounts of calories, and disregarding the fat gain)? Or should a natty just go slightly over maintenance so he doesn't gain too much fat?
Jim thinking about doing this after my current dieting is over.
Keeping my protein intake adequate, keeping the fat levels up, and only eating carbs on the days that I train post workout and at breakfast, or at post workout only. Or would you have carbs everyday?? The carbs would be from good carb sources only, oats, rice, grits, berries, etc.
Also adding in a cheat meal about every 4 days or so to keep me happy :)
What do u think of this approach, im trying to stay lean as possible while still adding on muscle.
Ok so dont go no carbs on the days I dont workout. But just limit them?? Like some oats or grits for breakfast, maybe a lil' berries as well??
The reason I ask, i want to stay, I CAN SEE MY ABS LEAN, all year around. That way whenever I do diet, it wont fuckin suck.
Also Im still thinkin bout doing cardio 2-3 days a week, or is that overkill? And should I just lower carbs if i feel myself getting fatter than i want to be?
And lastly, I totally agree about counting protein and whatnot, just eat protein with every meal, it healthy fats, and time your carbs properly and I think everyone will be alright. I dont really think overeating is a problem. But overeating of shitty food is. If people ate all the chicken, fish, steak and spinach/broccoli that they wanted, i doubt that they'd be fat.
Sounds like you are getting the hang of this. ;D 2-3 days of cardio a week is not too much. Bout 30 min sessions wouls be fine.
It's never a good idea no matter natural or not to get fat in the off season!!! I really don't think that you need to count cals. At least not for that majority of people. Most people have a good idea how much food that they can eat without getting fat and why not since most people have been eating for years. ;D Should be an expert by now. I like a diet high in protein say lean red meat, eggs fish turkey chicken cottage cheese. Then some carbs from rice yams oats potatoes but be careful how many carbs. Play around with them and only eat as many as you need to fuel your workouts and sustain gains but not enough to make you fat. Start with say 250 grams per day and go from there.
Hey JM,
what are your thoughts on fat loading as opposed to carb loading prior to a show? I remember Rhino blaming carb loading for his ordinary condition/placing at the pdi noc a while back.
Rhino did too many diuretics and prob ate too many carbs too. I am not a fan of fat looading either.gym body and stage body,he's the 1st category.
Disgusted,
Getbiggers want to know.
Who are the most famous people that you've GURU'D for???
We all know King Kamali, anybody else?
As you already know, ;D I trained Betty Pariso for the Arnold Classic in 2006. She got 5th place as I recall and the girl on the left I think won it. I also trained IFBB Figure pro Stephanie Collins since she was an amateur and I trained IFBB Fitness Pro Tracey Greenwood for her NY Pro win, I believe it was in 2006.Damn, Betty looked amazing. I cant believe shes old enough to be my grandmother haha.
So let me get this right...a few pages back I believe you mentioned you dont like the carb cycling. Do you feel that its just not very effective? I am curious because I am about seven weeks out from a show...and thats been my typical way of dieting. I am hoping to come in as shredded as Brian Whitacre looked in his pics.
Also....if you were supplementing with glutamine and BCAA's....do you count them towards your daily protein intake?
Hey disgusted , one wuick question i need urgently answered...
Its not good to train when you sick right ?with weights ...
But is it ok to do cardio whilst sick ???
asap pls....
Disgusted;
I know you can't tell eveything about King's prep...but, please consider a rough dry run for the last 4 days.
And what foods would you consider the best pre-contest foods...without really knowing a bodybuilder.
Thank you!
Jim;
Great job with King...wish you both the best!
What other male IFBB Pros have you worked with>?
Ive talked to you before without actually knowing how good your rep is around here so thanks for all the positive advise you've been giving., so if you have time can you check out the thread on Luke Wood and please give us your opinion on what happened to him, cause he looked fantastic 8 weeks out and what he showed sat. was truly mind boggling, an oipinion would be appriciated.Those pics are actually from Aug 31, not 8 weeks. I saw him when he arrived at The Koloseum, he was huge and shredded two weeks out, couldn't hold the conditioning for that long I guess. Maybe Disgusted could give a better idea of what he could have done to keep it. IMO, he just peaked two weeks too early.....disgusted, what do you think?
Those pics are actually from Aug 31, not 8 weeks. I saw him when he arrived at The Koloseum, he was huge and shredded two weeks out, couldn't hold the conditioning for that long I guess. Maybe Disgusted could give a better idea of what he could have done to keep it. IMO, he just peaked two weeks too early.....disgusted, what do you think?
Those pics are actually from Aug 31, not 8 weeks. I saw him when he arrived at The Koloseum, he was huge and shredded two weeks out, couldn't hold the conditioning for that long I guess. Maybe Disgusted could give a better idea of what he could have done to keep it. IMO, he just peaked two weeks too early.....disgusted, what do you think?What? 2 weeks out, how could he have messed up that badly. man thats crazy ???
Ive talked to you before without actually knowing how good your rep is around here so thanks for all the positive advise you've been giving., so if you have time can you check out the thread on Luke Wood and please give us your opinion on what happened to him, cause he looked fantastic 8 weeks out and what he showed sat. was truly mind boggling, an oipinion would be appriciated.
Disgusted,
What would you say is the upper end of doing cardio after a workout?
The past few years, due to necessity, I've had to do cardio after my workout. In the end this ended up getting me in better shape than anything I've ever done.
I usually ramp up about 5min every other week since I'm never in a hurry to make a deadline for a contest (just prefer to stay lean). I usually top off with 45-50min after my workout, which the workout is about 60min in itself. And I only do cardio after my workout, which is 4x a week.
My strength remains where I would like, but naturally I do lose a bit. I drink EAA shakes pre-, intra, and post-workout (not Milos' but similar) and I've also found this to help with not losing muscle.
I'm curious to your thoughts on this. I hear so many people talk about how 45min is too much....I've always ended up at this level near the peak of my cutting phase. Whether or not it's in conjunction with my workout or not.
Thanks.
It varies but 45 min is not too much. Even when someone stay very lean in the offseason I still have them hit cardio at the very latest bout 5 weeks out and usually 45 min is the min.
how about 45-60 min a day since from may to september~!!!! ;D
Jim,
What would you say would be the best way to take advantage of the rebound after dieting for 16 weeks ( like I just did :) ).................
I ask you this on a public forum because I think alot of people have this same questions.
And who better to ask then you!!!!!!
Do you mind answering this regarding the "powder" mentioned?
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=234166.75
thanks in advance!
I am leaving now, but will answer it with a new thread later. :)
Best way would be too stay on the same diet, but to increase the calories. People always ask me how many carbs to eat. The answer to that question is to increase them just enough so that you do not get fat. STAY LEAN!!! This way you can build quality and see what is going on. It's very simple, but most will never do this due to mainly discipline reasons. Why waste all those weeks of dieiting just to get fat again?
Disgusted,Check some of the progress threads about flexington, he also worked with disgusted.
i have a few q's for you.
Not knowing too much of your background and what you do i have understand that you
are getting pro's in shape. Pro's that juice and more.
What do you know about natural, normal people and how they can get in shape?
I guess the difference is huge on how you can get in shape(??)
What is the best way for getting in shape for a natural? Diet, supplements, training etc?
Disgusted,
i have a few q's for you.
Not knowing too much of your background and what you do i have understand that you
are getting pro's in shape. Pro's that juice and more.
What do you know about natural, normal people and how they can get in shape?
I guess the difference is huge on how you can get in shape(??)
What is the best way for getting in shape for a natural? Diet, supplements, training etc?
You may find this surprising but the isn't much of a difference. What I do to get people in shape is mostly diet and common sense. If you have some type of specific question feel free to ask. Actually I am curious as to why you think there is such a huge difference or maybe yor just speculating.I think it's a common misconception about getting in shape. Most, myself included, assume that someone who is "juicing" is also probably using some sort of chemical to burn fat.
I think it's a common misconception about getting in shape. Most, myself included, assume that someone who is "juicing" is also probably using some sort of chemical to burn fat.
I think I remember you saying once that you don't think people lose muscle while they diet, is that true?
No not usually. It may be interesting for some to know that King did not use any clen, IGF, insulin or diuretics for the show. Don't even mention DNP as I have never even known anyone to use it, have no experience with it and don't want to.What do you think about the post above yours? Any truth to that?
What do you think about the post above yours? Any truth to that?
I am leaving now, but will answer it with a new thread later. :)
Is there going to be any 1 day out pics released by Flexsteele?
You may find this surprising but the isn't much of a difference. What I do to get people in shape is mostly diet and common sense. If you have some type of specific question feel free to ask. Actually I am curious as to why you think there is such a huge difference or maybe yor just speculating.
Hmm.. thats interesting. Maybe i'm influenced by the "all drugs" posts here. I thought that modern bb relied on chemicals to get in shape.well to some degree, if one wanted to, its possible just rely on drugs to get shredded, and get enough protein to sustain mass. t3 + gh +clen+ eca + AI + test tren anavar
well to some degree, if one wanted to, its possible just rely on drugs to get shredded, and get enough protein to sustain mass. t3 + gh +clen+ eca + AI + test tren anavar
What's the downside to loving the hell out of Anadrol?
I've heard that you should stop the injects about 3-4 days out but run orals right up to show time. I'm also interested what disgusted has to say about this.
so basicly i could take lasix while on test p, eq ..and so on? i will not flaten out?? or eaven worse, i will not look like a waterbaloon??
ok let me try again. :o
is there any risk that i will look flat because of the diuretics?
will the testosteron prop and boldenone make me wet on stage, even though i take lasix?
hope that you understand me little better now.
Yes, diuretics can cause you to go flat so you are gambling. Holding water on stage has nothing to do with whether you cut out the test and or eq.
Hey Jim are you okay with dairy while dieting. Mainly cottage cheese or is that a no no?
DEF!! I like cottage cheese it's a great food.
ok then, whats your advice?
ricotta is up there too! :)
DEF!! I like cottage cheese it's a great food.
do you mix it with other foods or just eat a bunch by itself?
Disgusted, do you supplement (those doing your diets) with any fatty acids, fish oils, GLA, CLA, etc?
Jim do you believe in supplementing with antioxidants and herbs? also, other than pot ;D is there any other herbs that can be used at night to calm you down and help with sleep? muchas gracias.
I def believe in supplements. I take a god multi some D E and bout 4 grams of C daily. As far as antioxidants I don't the C is one and I just recenlty stated using Resveritrol. I am not sure bout the insomnia thing. Somtimes a little Xanax helps but you obviously need to be careful with it and not become dependent.
I def believe in supplements. I take a god multi some D E and bout 4 grams of C daily. As far as antioxidants I don't the C is one and I just recenlty stated using Resveritrol. I am not sure bout the insomnia thing. Somtimes a little Xanax helps but you obviously need to be careful with it and not become dependent.
what brand jimmy?
link me pls
Disgusted, my alltime ENEMY & FRIEND
I know this might sound stupid but i read once in a spanish forum that a guy who was preparing himself for a tournament, used to wake up at 5 am in the morning, do 45 mins of bicycle and then return to sleep until 8 am. He said he had this "theory" that after cardio and going to sleep, he would keep burning fat.
Sounds crazy?
Not crazy, but he should have just stayed in bed. Getting ripped is mostly diet anyway.
So disgusted, former soldier of allah, do you agree with his theory or sounds stupid?
Neither, just unnecessary.
Hey Jim. What time of the day do you feel is best to train in?
Jim,whats his training method ???
dude even though im kinda taking it easy for a few weeks, im getting awesome pumps and im getting leaner doing your training method.
very very good shit, thanx bro!!!!
whats his training method ???
I think ill let jim discuss it, he can explain it in much greater detail.
Let me find the link cause I bought my first bottle from a vitmin shop but their is a place on the net that had 99% pure. Most out there are aroun 50%.
any luck?
https://www.myrevgenetics.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=32&Click=294 :)
Jim, what do you do for a living?
I think ill let jim discuss it, he can explain it in much greater detail.
Hello Jim. This is my current bulking diet. As a change from the past bulking phases I chose to eat clean this time and not that many carbs.
Breakfast : 4-5 organic eggs (soft boiled or fried in 1-2 tbsp butter )
1-1.5 lbs fruit ( either apples, grapes of bananas )
Lunch ( ussually around 4 pm ) :
rooster meat or fish or red meat
side of veggies ( raw, green ussually leafy )
some carbs ( potatoes or rice )
Dinner : red meat and a side of veggies ( always raw : white/red cabbbage
or cauliflower )
ocassionally if I feel like eating some junk I'll go ahead and do it. Otherwise out of 25 odd meals maybe 5 are junk....at most
If I get hungry, I'll add a 4th meal ( meat and veggies )
I do physical work daily like shoveling and wheelborrowing shit for 2 hours and I count if as cardio and calves lol ....
if I'm really exhausted after work I'll eat a bigger meal after ...
I try not to get cramped up about time between meals and other stuff like this as I don't find it paramount ..
Waddayathink ? what can I do better ?
As the days progress ..I find myself adding more often a 4th meal ...I eat carbs according to what I do during the day ...
For example I don't see why eat carbs with my last meal ...I'll go to bed ...protein and roughage ...should I add some carbs?
I'm doing this because in the past I struggled with my appetite..so I wait until I'm hungry to eat ...
BTW ... muscle memory is amazing ;) ..never get tired of seing how fast the human body can change ...
do you see any significant disadvantages to using a split where quads and chest are trained in the same day? Pretty much the routine that Serge recommends.
Jim,
Serge Nubret used to eat only one LARGE meal per day.
Now I know thats a bit extreme but how about eating 3-4 large meals spread evenly though the day? Do u think this would be beneficial because it would give ur body time to actually digest and asorb the food, instead of constantly getting nutrients thrown at it, and never being able to properly assimilate what u eat.
Just thinking out loud here! Thanx
I may be wrong but I think Layne said it's best to eat every 4-6 hours
he has said that for a while now.. particularly if you have a sluggish metabolism.
what's up AVBG :D
enjoying the off-season ?
Jim what are your thought on old school programs that involved full body workouts three days a week? Also, have you ever read the complete keys to progress by John McCallum?
I've done it years ago. There are so many ways to train. This way is not bad, but you tend to tire out near the end from the workout being too long. I would say the it would be better to train half the body one day and the other half the next, you can do this 6 days per week and take a day off (other than Sun) if you feel that you need some rest. Go by what your body it telling you.jim, i bet there are some people here that are curious about ur views on training and your own training methods.
I am not familiar with the guy that you mention sorry.
Thanks for the reply Jim. Here is a link to the book that I was talking about. I know you like to read and the book is very interesting. If you ever have a spare second I think you should check it out.
http://www6.mailordercentral.com/ironmind/prodinfo.asp?number=1287
jim, i bet there are some people here that are curious about ur views on training and your own training methods.
can u please share
thanks
Glen
Sure, but beddy by for now. ;D
disgusted in your opinion which is better dbol or adrol and why ?
what is the simplest cycle you would advise someone do for maximum gains/minimum sides?
thanks.
jim, i bet there are some people here that are curious about ur views on training and your own training methods.
can u please share
thanks
Glen
I pefer volume say around 10 to 15 sets. Keep reps about 8 to 12. Sometimes I like to do high reps on legs say 70 to 80 reps on leg extensions. Will do those first. Will go first set 80 reps add a little weight maybe get 50 then add maybe get 35, will do total of 6 sets will take ma about 8 minutes. Move on to leg press or squats. I like to move quick with about 1 minute rest between sets slightly more when doing legs. Get in get out no talking destroy the muscle!!!!!!
Bro just wanted to say ive adopted your philosophy and its fuckin awesome.
Just curious, im hitting back tomorrow. What do u normally do for back??
Don't go by me bro. My back is one of my strong point and I do very little. I would advise pulldowns, low rows and or db rows and some stiff arm pulldowns for the part of the lat right under your arm pit. This will give you a better outer lat in the front double bicep. Lower back just down some hypers.
Ok just by this response. What percentage of building a pleasing, muscular physique would be training and what would be diet? and then what would be drugs?
Be a little more specific. Height weight and bf levels.
No I mean in like order of importance, what are the most important. Training? Diet? Drugs? and Genetics?
Because me personally I dont think it really matters what u train like, as long as u train hard. And that its mainly diet, then drugs and genetics.
What do u think Jim?
Unless you want to win the Olympia genetics are not important at all since anyone can build muscle. It's only your genetics that will determine what your muscles will look like as far as shape ect. Diet obviously is important as far as nutrients to be able to build muscle and lower bf levels. Training as you say to a degree is not that important as long as your follow certain paramiters. OK, once you get to your bodies max. muscle size naturally you will then need to go the "other" route to be able to build any more muscle. So as you can see diet training to a degree will get you so far and then drugs are needed no matter how "hard" you train and how "perfect" your diet is. So drug,s diet, training. Naturally, diet then training. You can train as long and hard as you want but your diet is shit then you will look like shit.
Dbol before drol. Dbol will give you good quality muscle gains all by itself. You will get nice and big full and round. Drol by itself is not as good and you tend to drop the gains quicker. Don't get me wrong it is good for size just not as good as dbol. Use drol before a show to increase blood volume which will add to your cosmetic density hardness and vascularity.
Simple? Dbol only cycle, do 6 weeks at 50 to 80 mgs. Advanced should do 100 or more.
Unless you want to win the Olympia genetics are not important at all since anyone can build muscle. It's only your genetics that will determine what your muscles will look like as far as shape ect. Diet obviously is important as far as nutrients to be able to build muscle and lower bf levels. Training as you say to a degree is not that important as long as your follow certain paramiters. OK, once you get to your bodies max. muscle size naturally you will then need to go the "other" route to be able to build any more muscle. So as you can see diet training to a degree will get you so far and then drugs are needed no matter how "hard" you train and how "perfect" your diet is. So drug,s diet, training. Naturally, diet then training. You can train as long and hard as you want but your diet is shit then you will look like shit.
So, Jim...what are your thoughts/ideas on how someone best finds the 'right amount of carbs' to take in during the offseason?
I pefer volume say around 10 to 15 sets. Keep reps about 8 to 12. Sometimes I like to do high reps on legs say 70 to 80 reps on leg extensions. Will do those first. Will go first set 80 reps add a little weight maybe get 50 then add maybe get 35, will do total of 6 sets will take ma about 8 minutes. Move on to leg press or squats. I like to move quick with about 1 minute rest between sets slightly more when doing legs. Get in get out no talking destroy the muscle!!!!!!
just wondering,
my chest is pretty weak, got any tips or suggestions??
Yes, try a pre exhaustion routine for a while. Do say 6 to 8 sets of cables X first or pec dec. Then move on to a compound move from there. Do about 12 total sets and keep your reps at around 10.
Jim u are the definition of K.I.S.S
Ill give this a try and photo u the results :)
Also, you may want to try flat bench press to the neck. Start in a normal postition and as you bring the bar down keep your elbow out to your sides. Slowly bring it down to your neck as ar as you can. You may not be too flexible at first. Be vary careful not to go heavy on this exercise. Even though this is a compound movement it isolates the chest more because of the bar placement. Do this one first. Start with a very light weight around 25's on each side. Do 10 reps, rest about 30 to 40 sec max. Keep adding 5# plates on each side till you can barely get 8 reps. This should take you around 6 to 8 sets.
I have talked to a few guys that like trib. The main thing is getting the right kind. If you want me to I can ask around and found out who carries a good brand, just let me know. Just remember that it will work to raise test levels, but it's no miracle.
Thanks for the reply, Disgusted.
To be honest i haven't checked out what brands make it here (I'm in Australia), so i might have to check out what brands we have here i guess. If you know of any good brands that would be great, and i can shop around and see if we have them here.
Thanks for the reply, Disgusted.See if you can get SoPharma's 'Tribestan', seems to be popular and Amazon.com has some cheap ass prices on it.
To be honest i haven't checked out what brands make it here (I'm in Australia), so i might have to check out what brands we have here i guess. If you know of any good brands that would be great, and i can shop around and see if we have them here.
Thanks for those suggestions, i'll check them out.I've heard tribulus is one of those things that you really need a quality brand, maybe disgusted could clarify.
I just went on ebay real quick to see what they got (i go on ebay cause it's easier than going to the store and buying stuff online like from bb.com or whatever is too unreliable, strict customs and shit)
Anyway, i've seen some stuff that seems to be good value, though i haven't heard of the brand (Mega Pro). Is Tribulus like creatine and it's all kinda the same (regardless of brands) or is Tribulus different?
I've heard tribulus is one of those things that you really need a quality brand, maybe disgusted could clarify.
Thanks for those suggestions, i'll check them out.
I just went on ebay real quick to see what they got (i go on ebay cause it's easier than going to the store and buying stuff online like from bb.com or whatever is too unreliable, strict customs and shit)
Anyway, i've seen some stuff that seems to be good value, though i haven't heard of the brand (Mega Pro). Is Tribulus like creatine and it's all kinda the same (regardless of brands) or is Tribulus different?
Also, you may want to try flat bench press to the neck. Start in a normal postition and as you bring the bar down keep your elbow out to your sides. Slowly bring it down to your neck as ar as you can. You may not be too flexible at first. Be vary careful not to go heavy on this exercise. Even though this is a compound movement it isolates the chest more because of the bar placement. Do this one first. Start with a very light weight around 25's on each side. Do 10 reps, rest about 30 to 40 sec max. Keep adding 5# plates on each side till you can barely get 8 reps. This should take you around 6 to 8 sets.
Did crossovers first did about 8 sets on there, got a crazy pump.
Then did the bench to the neck! WOW!! totally isolates the chest i didnt feel it in my shoulders or tris or nothing, just UPPER CHEST! that was awesome.
Then i went and did a few sets of flyes got a maximum pump, then moved to triceps!!!
Great workout! thanx Jim, i really really felt my chest pump up with blood doing this.
Good job. Upper chest is exactly where you should have felt it. Doing the pre exhaust also helped in further isolating the chest area for the BP to the neck.
yea my upper chest felt like it was going to explode, i only got about 6 sets though, then i was FINISHED!!! I could feel my chest touching my adams apple lol.I know this is The Positive Board, so let me say this nicely......could you provide pics of said chest touching said adams apple? :)
I know this is The Positive Board, so let me say this nicely......could you provide pics of said chest touching said adams apple? :)
hahaha, i said it "felt" like it lol! i was no where near it, but it damn sure felt like it lolI've seen a few bbers doing this at the gym, to the neck presses, always looked uncomfortable to me.
I've seen a few bbers doing this at the gym, to the neck presses, always looked uncomfortable to me.
How about a back routine that would smoke the lats?
A good isolation exercise for the lat is one arm pulldowns. I sit on a low bench or box under the cable crossover. Pulldown and slightly arch your body to the side at the end of the movement to get a good contraction. Let me know if you understand what I am trying to say here.
Totally.....
I just did them today (on smith machine).
I too thought they would be uncomfortable, but they are AWESOME.
Probably the best chest pump i've gotten. Delts seem like they don't even get worked, upper chest was screaming!
I did them a few days ago and they made a stretch mark on my chest slightly longer :(
Definitely felt it all in the chest though, good pump.
Wear your stretch marks with pride!!
Battle scars!!
Lol, every workout another battle in the war that is bodybuilding.
Did crossovers first did about 8 sets on there, got a crazy pump.Did you use the smith machine mate?
Then did the bench to the neck! WOW!! totally isolates the chest i didnt feel it in my shoulders or tris or nothing, just UPPER CHEST! that was awesome.
Then i went and did a few sets of flyes got a maximum pump, then moved to triceps!!!
Great workout! thanx Jim, i really really felt my chest pump up with blood doing this.
Did you use the smith machine mate?
I know this was directed at Flexington, but i did them and i used the smith machine.I tryed them a few years ago,but have a dodgy shoulder and found they agravated it a bit..
Felt fine, very good exercise.
I may try them on the free weight bench, but i would want someone spotting me on my heavier sets.
I tryed them a few years ago,but have a dodgy shoulder and found they agravated it a bit..
Id love to try them again but maybe will superset them with incline cable flyes first to pre exaust so that way ego doesnt tell me to add more plates when I really shouldnt ;D
Did you use the smith machine mate?
honestly man Moe looks pretty good in the second shot, leads me to believe that he wasn't fully crunched down into the shot in the 1st pic, he definitely needed better color.The second shot is from last year, 2008.
Jim does it make u less of a fan of bodybuilding to see about 90% of the competitors at this years ironman show come in at 3-6 weeks out level of conditioning.
and did moe elmossawi ruin his physique with insulin use or can he correct it?? comparisons from this year and last year
Jim does it make u less of a fan of bodybuilding to see about 90% of the competitors at this years ironman show come in at 3-6 weeks out level of conditioning.
and did moe elmossawi ruin his physique with insulin use or can he correct it?? comparisons from this year and last year
I pretty much am not interested in these shows anymore. It is one of the reasons that I stopped training people. I am not a fan of what they are rewarding nowadays.
i think theres this skinny black guy from california who u can still help! ;)
Disgusted started training Usher ?!?!?!
great news !!!!!!!!!! :D
I believe usher is from ohio.
Asshole! ;)
I believe usher is from ohio.First warning.
Asshole! ;)
First warning.
;D
I just did 22 sets for chest lol. Im forcing that fucker to grow :o.
that included 5 sets of neck bench presses. Fuck those hurt ( in a good way ;D )
IMO, incline flyes with 15 degrees benchyes,yes on the bench to neck ,it was shown to me yrs and yrs ago by a south american pro it really fills in clavicle area you have to be careful not to go too heavy tho,,,
best exercise ever for chest
How deep are you guys going on the bench press to neck? All the way down to your Adams-apple?
How deep are you guys going on the bench press to neck? All the way down to your Adams-apple?
I just started them 2 weeks ago and will be doing them today again.
Just go as deep as comfortable. Shoulder girdle flexibility will determine the comfort/ability to perform them. Just give them a go and see what feels right for you...
Warm up good and be careful, I usually touch my chin. Your flexibility will improve in time.
Warm up good and be careful, I usually touch my chin. Your flexibility will improve in time.WOW,I USUALLY HIT JUST OVER COLLAR AREA ,I'LL TRY CHIN AREA .I REALLY LIKE THEM AND PEOPLE IN MY GYM ASK WHAT IT HITS ,ITS I GUESS A HIT OR MISS FOR SOME.
WOW,I USUALLY HIT JUST OVER COLLAR AREA ,I'LL TRY CHIN AREA .I REALLY LIKE THEM AND PEOPLE IN MY GYM ASK WHAT IT HITS ,ITS I GUESS A HIT OR MISS FOR SOME.
There is no exact place that you have to touch, but I personally feel that bringing the bar to the chin gives me a little better stretch and brings a tad more isolation to the chest. Remember to keep the elbows out to your sides! Also, keep this one light weight baby!! ;D
jim just wondering to you consciously "push" out your elbows to the side or do u just let them go to the side.
If the weight is not too heavy then you really don't have to "think" about it.
Disgusted, are you saying that flex is overthinking the whole thing?
i have a bad lower back, and i only can do rowing movements off a bench...like dumbbell rows on an incline and the t-bar bench.
i have my first contest this summer, and was wondering if i can train around the injury and still put on muscle.
oddly enough, i can dead lift, but no bent over rowing.
I normally don't speak aloud while I type.
That's too bad, you would realize how smart you "sound".
Jim, could you do anything with this beast or is he damaged goods?
I could if I still trained people. You have decent size, but are holding about 30 pounds of needless weight.:D
Why my question was deleted again? What was wrong this time? I repeat it again:Flex is pissed I moved the "magic powder" thread, expect alot of posts to get deleted. :-\
Jim, how do you develop a supplement when you have no studies?
Flex is pissed I moved the "magic powder" thread, expect alot of posts to get deleted. :-\
but i did not harm anybody here, and my question is not ment to attack jim but to find out how he made until this point. jesus this board is supposed to be positive and whenever i ask something serious it gets deleted, is that positive or what?Not alot I can do for you, seems if you press for an answer someone is going to delete it and say you were being negative. ::)
Not alot I can do for you, seems if you press for an answer someone is going to delete it and say you were being negative. ::)
Flex is pissed I moved the "magic powder" thread, expect alot of posts to get deleted. :-\
You did the right thing Chaos. Mods have to follow Rons rules. :)Well someone is saying disgusted is leaving because his thread was moved. I'm trying to find out if it's true. :-\
Well someone is saying disgusted is leaving because his thread was moved. I'm trying to find out if it's true. :-\
Wife won't give me any fellacio, any tips on how to help this happen ?