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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: garebear on May 25, 2012, 07:29:43 AM
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2 Kings 2:23-24
New International Version (NIV)
Elisha Is Jeered
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
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BUMP
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Poor translations of this verse define the "the boys" as young children, but the boys were not a group of 8 year olds. This was a gang of young men with bad intentions ganging up on a prophet of God. A real threat existed for Elisha and he was protected by the very God he serves.
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Exodus 3:4 NIV
"When the Lord saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!”
I find this quote questionable because bushes cannot, in fact, talk. They are set in their bushy ways and under no circumstances do these ways include vocalizing human language.
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Exodus 3:4 NIV
"When the Lord saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!”
I find this quote questionable because bushes cannot, in fact, talk. They are set in their bushy ways and under no circumstances do these ways include vocalizing human language.
LOL!! Funny.....sarcastic of course, but funny.
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Matthew 13:31-31: "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof."
The mustard plant has small seeds - but not the smallest. Oh, and it never grows into a tree.
Matthew 19:29: "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."
Forget the Father and Mother you were previously told to honor. Forget your brothers, your sisters. Forget your wife and children. Forsake them all!
Jude 4: "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
The truth is kept from some ungodly men, for they were pre-ordained to reject Christ.
Colossians 1:23: "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister"
Paul believes that in day and age the gospel had already been preached to every creature which is under heaven. Attempts to verify this with the Loch Ness monster haven't been successful.
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Poor translations of this verse define the "the boys" as young children, but the boys were not a group of 8 year olds. This was a gang of young men with bad intentions ganging up on a prophet of God. A real threat existed for Elisha and he was protected by the very God he serves.
Of course, people who cite this verse to make hay of it forget to ask themselves, why a group of supposed little children would leave the outskirts of a city, to go to a desert road, just to pick on someone for having a bald head.
And, if 42 got mauled by bears, just HOW MANY OF THEM were there, 100? 150?
If I'm accosted by a gang of young hoodlums, I certainly wouldn't mind having two mama grizzlies having my back.
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Of course, people who cite this verse to make hay of it forget to ask themselves, why a group of supposed little children would leave the outskirts of a city, to go to a desert road, just to pick on someone for having a bald head.
And, if 42 got mauled by bears, just HOW MANY OF THEM were there, 100? 150?
If I'm accosted by a gang of young hoodlums, I certainly wouldn't mind having two mama grizzlies having my back.
I do enjoy how otherwise nice civil people try to justify atrocious acts in the bible because a God supposedly did it.
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Matthew 13:31-31: "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof."
The mustard plant has small seeds - but not the smallest. Oh, and it never grows into a tree.
Matthew 19:29: "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."
Forget the Father and Mother you were previously told to honor. Forget your brothers, your sisters. Forget your wife and children. Forsake them all!
Jude 4: "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
The truth is kept from some ungodly men, for they were pre-ordained to reject Christ.
Colossians 1:23: "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister"
Paul believes that in day and age the gospel had already been preached to every creature which is under heaven. Attempts to verify this with the Loch Ness monster haven't been successful.
Matthew 13:31-31: "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof."
The mustard plant has small seeds - but not the smallest. Oh, and it never grows into a tree.
Was most likely the smallest known seed in that region at that time or the smallest seed most likely worked with at that time. Christ conformed his language and examples according to the audience. Mustard seeds can produce a bush. Some bushes can be pruned and maintained and become the size of small trees ornamental trees...I have one in my front yard.
Matthew 19:29: "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."
Forget the Father and Mother you were previously told to honor. Forget your brothers, your sisters. Forget your wife and children. Forsake them all!
Christ came to seperate the wheat from the chaff....believers from unbelievers. This verse of scripture doesn't mean "turn on your folks and receive a big lump of divine stuff in return."
Jude 4: "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
The truth is kept from some ungodly men, for they were pre-ordained to reject Christ.
Ungodly men has infiltrated the church, but their condenmation was recorded long ago, but their ungoldly ways weren't designed into them.
Colossians 1:23: "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister"
Paul believes that in day and age the gospel had already been preached to every creature which is under heaven. Attempts to verify this with the Loch Ness monster haven't been successful.
The Christian ministry at that time did touch upon every known country and every creation under heaven is a Hebrew expression for all human beings and more specifically all jews and gentiles. The gospel is meant to be shared, learned and then spread wider by the new body of believers.
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Was most likely the smallest known seed in that region at that time or the smallest seed most likely worked with at that time. Christ conformed his language and examples according to the audience. Mustard seeds can produce a bush. Some bushes can be pruned and maintained and become the size of small trees ornamental trees...I have one in my front yard.
Even if that is the case, why didn't Christ say the technically accurate and equally well-understood: "The mustard seed is so small, yet with proper pruning and maintenance can become the same of a small tree."?
Christ came to seperate the wheat from the chaff....believers from unbelievers. This verse of scripture doesn't mean "turn on your folks and receive a big lump of divine stuff in return."
I think the verse speaks for itself: "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." If you've forsakes houses, siblings, parents, wives, children or lands in the name of Jesus, you will be rewarded.
Ungodly men has infiltrated the church, but their condenmation was recorded long ago, but their ungoldly ways weren't designed into them.
Again, I think the text speaks for itself. There are men "who were before of old ordained to this condemnation."
The Christian ministry at that time did touch upon every known country and every creation under heaven is a Hebrew expression for all human beings and more specifically all jews and gentiles. The gospel is meant to be shared, learned and then spread wider by the new body of believers.
Even if we agree that this quote meant "the world as we know it" it still doesn't pass muster. It is your contention that by that time Christian ministries had "touched" what is now India and Pakistan, Russia, China and Japan? That's quite an extraordinary statement. Do you have any factual evidence to back it up?
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I do enjoy how otherwise nice civil people try to justify atrocious acts in the bible because a God supposedly did it.
And then act all outraged when someone else does it. All pro-lifers who quote and claim God seem to forget that God is in favor of abortions. What else can you expect from a being that kills all his children.
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I do enjoy how otherwise nice civil people try to justify atrocious acts in the bible because a God supposedly did it.
True:
Exodus 11:5: And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.
Those cursed firstborn surely deserved it?
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Why is there no mention of dinosaurs in the bible?
Did god miss those few hundred millions of years?
Was he passed out or something?
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Why is there no mention of dinosaurs in the bible?
Did god miss those few hundred millions of years?
Was he passed out or something?
What would be the point of mentioning dinosaurs again (notwithstanding the fact that the word, dinosaur, wasn't coined until LOOOOOONG after the Bible had been written)?
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What would be the point of mentioning dinosaurs again (notwithstanding the fact that the word, dinosaur, wasn't coined until LOOOOOONG after the Bible had been written)?
According to Christian mythology, God created the Universe and everything in it. The existence of dinosaurs between the Triassic and Cretaceous periods is well documented, ergo God must have created dinosaurs. Since Genesis is, supposedly, a chronicle of creation, and the dinosaurs who existed had to (according to Christian mythology) have been created, it would make sense that they should be mentioned. No?
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According to Christian mythology, God created the Universe and everything in it. The existence of dinosaurs between the Triassic and Cretaceous periods is well documented, ergo God must have created dinosaurs. Since Genesis is, supposedly, a chronicle of creation, and the dinosaurs who existed had to (according to Christian mythology) have been created, it would make sense that they should be mentioned. No?
For what purpose? Just for the sake of it!! If such weren't germane to the Biblical account of events, where's the need to mention them by name?
And, as you apparently missed, the term "dinosaur" was coined in the 19th century, LONG AFTER the Bible was translated into English.
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For what purpose? Just for the sake of it!! If such weren't germane to the Biblical account of events, where's the need to mention them by name?
Well, it is supposed to be an accurate description of creation, no? Dinosaurs were around for roughly 150 million years or so... But hey, let's not be too picky. It's hard to fit everything in 6 days ;D
And, as you apparently missed, the term "dinosaur" was coined in the 19th century, LONG AFTER the Bible was translated into English.
Right... because other words couldn't be used to describe them in a document that, supposedly, chronicles creation.
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Well, it is supposed to be an accurate description of creation, no? Dinosaurs were around for roughly 150 million years or so... But hey, let's not be too picky. It's hard to fit everything in 6 days ;D
Wouldn't dinosaurs fit into the "beasts of the field" category?
Right... because other words couldn't be used to describe them in a document that, supposedly, chronicles creation.
They could. So what? Why the need to specifically mention dinosaurs, as opposed to some other critters?
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Wouldn't dinosaurs fit into the "beasts of the field" category?
Perhaps they would... but (see below)
They could. So what? Why the need to specifically mention dinosaurs, as opposed to some other critters?
I just find it hard to buy a chronology of creation that talks of 7 days while skipping billions of years, and bundles a diverse group of creatures together under "beasts of the field" but spends 32 verses in the genealogy of Adam.
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Perhaps they would... but (see below)
I just find it hard to buy a chronology of creation that talks of 7 days while skipping billions of years, and bundles a diverse group of creatures together under "beasts of the field" but spends 32 verses in the genealogy of Adam.
I think human beings take a little bit of a priority over animals, dinosaurs or not.
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I think human beings take a little bit of a priority over animals, dinosaurs or not.
To each their own... I want useful scientific information. Not names.
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What kind of animals do these sound like they could be?
Job 40:15-24
15 “Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God,
yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20 The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23 A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?
Job 41
41 [a]“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook
or tie down its tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through its nose
or pierce its jaw with a hook?
3 Will it keep begging you for mercy?
Will it speak to you with gentle words?
4 Will it make an agreement with you
for you to take it as your slave for life?
5 Can you make a pet of it like a bird
or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?
6 Will traders barter for it?
Will they divide it up among the merchants?
7 Can you fill its hide with harpoons
or its head with fishing spears?
8 If you lay a hand on it,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
9 Any hope of subduing it is false;
the mere sight of it is overpowering.
10 No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
Who then is able to stand against me?
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.
12 “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,
its strength and its graceful form.
13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?
14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
ringed about with fearsome teeth?
15 Its back has[c] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
its eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Flames stream from its mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from its nostrils
as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
21 Its breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from its mouth.
22 Strength resides in its neck;
dismay goes before it.
23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
24 Its chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.
25 When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before its thrashing.
26 The sword that reaches it has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
27 Iron it treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.
28 Arrows do not make it flee;
slingstones are like chaff to it.
29 A club seems to it but a piece of straw;
it laughs at the rattling of the lance.
30 Its undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
31 It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 It leaves a glistening wake behind it;
one would think the deep had white hair.
33 Nothing on earth is its equal —
a creature without fear.
34 It looks down on all that are haughty;
it is king over all that are proud.
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What kind of animals do these sound like they could be?
Thanks for posting that - I didn't actually remember that passage at all. It's certainly a decent effort to argue that references to dinosaurs appear in the Bible. But a problem with the segment you quoted is that it's so abstract that you can really fit anything. I mean, it talks about animals that eat grass and have tubes of bronze for bones and rods of iron for limbs. I can argue that describes some kind of robotic goat, as much as it describes, say, a stegosaurus.
Plus, there's another huge problem: if we are to understand the "Behemoth" in Job 40:15 as a dinosaur, the verse itself poses an almost insurmountable obstacle, because it claims that the "Behemoth" was "made along with [us]"
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What kind of animals do these sound like they could be?
Branch Warren :D (bb related).
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Branch Warren :D (bb related).
Great point! Butterbean, I challenge you to find a reference in the Bible to Dexter Jackson - the forgotten Mr. Olympia ;) Even God snubs "The Blade"!
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I do enjoy how otherwise nice civil people try to justify atrocious acts in the bible because a God supposedly did it.
Tell me again why a bunch of young boys are leaving the outskirts of a city to antagonize ONE MAN.
Again, 42 of them got mauled; how many of them went after Elijah?
I'll put it this way. If you happen to be in the hood and some Crips or Bloods (many comprised of teen boys) come after you with bad intentions, I'm sure you wouldn't mind having two grizzly bears on your side to even the odds.
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Thanks for posting that - I didn't actually remember that passage at all. It's certainly a decent effort to argue that references to dinosaurs appear in the Bible. But a problem with the segment you quoted is that it's so abstract that you can really fit anything. I mean, it talks about animals that eat grass and have tubes of bronze for bones and rods of iron for limbs. I can argue that describes some kind of robotic goat, as much as it describes, say, a stegosaurus.
Don't you think tubes for bronze for bones and rods of iron for limbs is symbolic language for strength? That's how I take it anyway.
I personally don't really see how those descriptions in Job could "really fit anything."
Plus, there's another huge problem: if we are to understand the "Behemoth" in Job 40:15 as a dinosaur, the verse itself poses an almost insurmountable obstacle, because it claims that the "Behemoth" was "made along with [us]"
I don't have a problem w/that. I believe that all life is "young." And just to clarify in advance, the bible doesn't specifically state a "young" earth....but it does indicate that life is "young."
Great point! Butterbean, I challenge you to find a reference in the Bible to Dexter Jackson - the forgotten Mr. Olympia ;) Even God snubs "The Blade"!
Are you saying King Saul fell on Dexter and died?
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Wait a minute, a Christian and an Atheist engaging in a civil manner in a religious thread on Getbig? Not sure what to make of this.
:D
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Wait a minute, a Christian and an Atheist engaging in a civil manner in a religious thread on Getbig? Not sure what to make of this.
:D
It's the Apocalypse! It started!!! ;D
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Thanks for posting that - I didn't actually remember that passage at all. It's certainly a decent effort to argue that references to dinosaurs appear in the Bible. But a problem with the segment you quoted is that it's so abstract that you can really fit anything. I mean, it talks about animals that eat grass and have tubes of bronze for bones and rods of iron for limbs. I can argue that describes some kind of robotic goat, as much as it describes, say, a stegosaurus.
Plus, there's another huge problem: if we are to understand the "Behemoth" in Job 40:15 as a dinosaur, the verse itself poses an almost insurmountable obstacle, because it claims that the "Behemoth" was "made along with [us]"
No you can't. A goat's tail is not like a cedar.
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No you can't. A goat's tail is not like a cedar.
;D