Hellwig to "expose" Hogan (2011):

[Montague]

And another one of himself on his upper shoulder. That's two, maybe more...

LMAO!!
I'm glad someone else has seen them.
They really do need to be seen to fully appreciate the audacity.

[MCWAY]

all of that is nothing compared to this:

 

Rude's piledriver at WrestleMania had more sting than that (5:18)

For the full, unedited...well, unedited except for the use of "WWF"....match, click here (notice the missile dropkick by the Ravishing One at 6:42, that Coliseum Video cut out).

http://www.myspace.com/video/persona-non-grata/rick-rude-v-the-ultimate-warrior-at-wrestlemania-v/7207357

[Playboy]

What is this really all about? Setting up a Warrior vs Hogan III? Considering #II was a disaster.

I'll tell you what tho - looking at the latest video, Warrior still looks in great shape....

The guy's last match was 13 yrs ago ( I dont count the Africa thingor wherever it was 3 yrs ago)...just fade away already

Absolutely not...its just two much older washed up egos colliding on the net.

[The Showstoppa]

Absolutely not...its just two much older washed up egos colliding on the net.

Exactly.  To hell with both of these turds.  They both played a part in ruining wrestling.  Put them with VKM on an inner-tube in the south pacific and good riddance.

[MCWAY]

Exactly.  To hell with both of these turds.  They both played a part in ruining wrestling.  Put them with VKM on an inner-tube in the south pacific and good riddance.

Ruining wrestling? Hogan? Vince McMahon rode Hogan all the way to the bank, packing football stadiums to boot.

Hogan-Andre and Hogan-Warrior at WrestleManias 3 and 6, respectively, helped put wrestling on the map.

[Playboy]

Ruining wrestling? Hogan? Vince McMahon rode Hogan all the way to the bank, packing football stadiums to boot.

Hogan-Andre and Hogan-Warrior at WrestleManias 3 and 6, respectively, helped put wrestling on the map.

I wouldn't go that far....

Hogan did a lot for wrestling and no one really gave a damn about Warrior. Warrior had a small 2 year run where he was huge. 1990-1991 till he held up Vince for cash. That's not putting wrestling on the map. Its putting a black eye on the business.

Hogan was #1 for making Wrestling mainstream.
Flair was #2 for being the only talent wrestling all over the world and not just North American USA rings.

The rest are a very long distant #3.

[MCWAY]

I wouldn't go that far....

Hogan did a lot for wrestling and no one really gave a damn about Warrior. Warrior had a small 2 year run where he was huge. 1990-1991 till he held up Vince for cash. That's not putting wrestling on the map. Its putting a black eye on the business.

Hogan was #1 for making Wrestling mainstream.
Flair was #2 for being the only talent wrestling all over the world and not just North American USA rings.

The rest are a very long distant #3.

My comments were mainly about Hogan, not Warrior. I know Warrior fizzled out after 1991, starting with his losing the WWF title to Sgt. Slaughter and really ended after that beating from the Undertaker, at the Funeral Parlor show.

[The Showstoppa]

Ruining wrestling? Hogan? Vince McMahon rode Hogan all the way to the bank, packing football stadiums to boot.

Hogan-Andre and Hogan-Warrior at WrestleManias 3 and 6, respectively, helped put wrestling on the map.

Absolutely.  He killed terriotories and now we are left with the pile of smoldering shit that we have.  I grew up on Mid-Atlantic and Georgia wrestling.  Nothing VKM has ever produced is even remotely close from a purists standpoint, which is what I am.  Had I been 9 or 10 at the height of Hogan's popularity i might feel differently.  And by mentioning Hogan-Andre and Hogan-Warrior you are just helping to make my point.  While both made money and had tons of viewers, they were both pure garbage matches in every way.  Again, my tastes obviously aren't for the masses, but that is my opinion.

The thing is making more money with something, or even having more viewers, doesn't make it "better." 

[chaos]

Absolutely.  He killed terriotories and now we are left with the pile of smoldering shit that we have.  I grew up on Mid-Atlantic and Georgia wrestling.  Nothing VKM has ever produced is even remotely close from a purists standpoint, which is what I am.  Had I been 9 or 10 at the height of Hogan's popularity i might feel differently.  And by mentioning Hogan-Andre and Hogan-Warrior you are just helping to make my point.  While both made money and had tons of viewers, they were both pure garbage matches in every way.  Again, my tastes obviously aren't for the masses, but that is my opinion.

The thing is making more money with something, or even having more viewers, doesn't make it "better." 

How often do you seek out and support the local indie feds by going to their shows in high school auditoriums?

[Montague]

I don’t think anyone is claiming that Vince “killed” wrestling.
He certainly changed the industry landscape, and in the process, killed a particular genre of the business by slaying the regional territories.

Something I’ve noticed in recent years - and I believe we’ve touched upon it here before - with territories gone, there aren’t many places left for workers to hone or expand their craft.
You can’t compare indy promotions to the territories of old; most of them run 2-3 shows per month.

Also, many of today’s mainstream workers are learning from the same trainers.
That equates to little difference in style between them, creating a cookie-cutter effect.
Individuality, for the most part, has been lost.
Creativity is discouraged because most talent is “told” what to say.

Vince McMahon Jr. created all of this: directly, indirectly, inadvertently, and on purpose.

[Captain Equipoise]

I wouldn't go that far....

Hogan did a lot for wrestling and no one really gave a damn about Warrior. Warrior had a small 2 year run where he was huge. 1990-1991 till he held up Vince for cash. That's not putting wrestling on the map. Its putting a black eye on the business.

Hogan was #1 for making Wrestling mainstream.
Flair was #2 for being the only talent wrestling all over the world and not just North American USA rings.

The rest are a very long distant #3.

Dude, considering Vince uses and tosses these guys like napkins, are you really surprised !?! you know how many people VKM has led to their death? look at the amount of dead guys in the 90's and 2000's, he may not be directly respoinsble for each of their deaths but he sure had a part to play in leading them there.

[The Showstoppa]

How often do you seek out and support the local indie feds by going to their shows in high school auditoriums?

I do go to an occasional indy show.

[Hulkster]

I know Warrior fizzled out after 1991

I have always maintained that this was due to booking rather than Helwig.

look who they had him face after he beat hogan:

Rude, who he had already destroyed before.

he had already beat Hogan, Andre, Rude, Perfect etc etc.

there was no one left for him to face.

bad booking. should have had him feud with Hogan for a while.

then savage - which WAS good. but by then he was no longer champ.

had they started the Macho Man program while he was still world champ, it might have been a lot better for Warrior.

Warrior wins the world title and they throw him in a bunch of 6 man tag matches with LOD against Demolition.

obviously, he was not going to do well as champ.

as IC champ, they booked him properly and look how over he was. he was arguably more popular than Hogan for pretty much all of 1989 and 90..

[chaos]

I have always maintained that this was due to booking rather than Helwig.

Maybe if he wasn't such a cock they would have booked him better

[Montague]

Maybe if he wasn't such a cock they would have booked him better

They couldn’t have pushed him any harder - having him beat Honky for the I-C title in under a minute, having Hogan drop the big belt to him at Mania, etc.

Hellwig didn’t know how to work; he only knew how to squash his opponents.
Had he learned things like pacing, psychology, and telling a story within the match, he could have stretched out those feuds.
But, he felt that he was too good for the business and didn’t “need” to learn those things, which is ironic because it could have helped him so much.

Jim never understood that if you run effortlessly through an opponent, give them nothing, & completely annihilate them, who have you beaten?
If, instead, you make the other guy look good, your “victory” means a lot more.
But, Hellwig never got that.
He only knew how to get himself over, he only knew one way to do it, and that was ALL he was ever concerned with.

In that regard, the Ultimate Warrior character was entirely one-dimensional.

[Captain Equipoise]

They couldn’t have pushed him any harder - having him beat Honky for the I-C title in under a minute, having Hogan drop the big belt to him at Mania, etc.

Hellwig didn’t know how to work; he only knew how to squash his opponents.
Had he learned things like pacing, psychology, and telling a story within the match, he could have stretched out those feuds.
But, he felt that he was too good for the business and didn’t “need” to learn those things, which is ironic because it could have helped him so much.

Jim never understood that if you run effortlessly through an opponent, give them nothing, & completely annihilate them, who have you beaten?
If, instead, you make the other guy look good, your “victory” means a lot more.
But, Hellwig never got that.
He only knew how to get himself over, he only knew one way to do it, and that was ALL he was ever concerned with.

In that regard, the Ultimate Warrior character was entirely one-dimensional.

Seemingly ironic then that his character's name is/was the ULTIMATE WARRIOR , no?

undertaker and goldberg followed down the same path (somewhat)

[Montague]

Seemingly ironic then that his character's name is/was the ULTIMATE WARRIOR , no?

undertaker and goldberg followed down the same path (somewhat)

Goldberg was similar, but I think for a different reason: it wasn't egotism or stubborness, but because he got an enormous push as a VERY green worker. I suspect he may have believed that doing what he did got him that far and was maybe reluctant to change it for fear of failure.
It didn't matter; in his case, it was booking that destroyed his momentum.

As far as Taker goes, he at least knows how to work in a way that gets himself AND his opponent over.
Granted, this wasn’t so much the case when they first brought him in & the old man was giving orders to the locker room such as, "Undertaker is not to leave his feet.”

But, Taker developed & improved over the years.
That’s one of the reasons he’s been able to revisit feuds and work with guys he’s faced before.

With Undertaker, you often expected him to win, but there were times it seemed like he might not.
An UW match was like a Mike Tyson fight - it’s one-sided, you know he’s going to go over, and in under 10 mins.
Boxing may be different, but that shit gets old real quick with pro-wrestling fans.

[indie-lad]

They couldn’t have pushed him any harder - having him beat Honky for the I-C title in under a minute, having Hogan drop the big belt to him at Mania, etc.

Hellwig didn’t know how to work; he only knew how to squash his opponents.
Had he learned things like pacing, psychology, and telling a story within the match, he could have stretched out those feuds.
But, he felt that he was too good for the business and didn’t “need” to learn those things, which is ironic because it could have helped him so much.

Jim never understood that if you run effortlessly through an opponent, give them nothing, & completely annihilate them, who have you beaten?
If, instead, you make the other guy look good, your “victory” means a lot more.
But, Hellwig never got that.
He only knew how to get himself over, he only knew one way to do it, and that was ALL he was ever concerned with.

In that regard, the Ultimate Warrior character was entirely one-dimensional.

Truth right here.

[MCWAY]

Absolutely.  He killed terriotories and now we are left with the pile of smoldering shit that we have.  I grew up on Mid-Atlantic and Georgia wrestling.  Nothing VKM has ever produced is even remotely close from a purists standpoint, which is what I am.  Had I been 9 or 10 at the height of Hogan's popularity i might feel differently.  And by mentioning Hogan-Andre and Hogan-Warrior you are just helping to make my point.  While both made money and had tons of viewers, they were both pure garbage matches in every way.  Again, my tastes obviously aren't for the masses, but that is my opinion.

The thing is making more money with something, or even having more viewers, doesn't make it "better." 

I grew up on Florida Championship Wrestling, a feeder of the old NWA. WWF made that stuff look so bush-league. It was when FCW was canceled, due to some special, that I went channel-surfing and found WWF wrestling, which came on around the same time. From that point, I was sold. And, once the Hulkster came on TV....FORGET IT!!!

As for the aforementioned matches, to me, they were great. Hogan-Warrior flowed better than Hogan-Andre. But, who will ever forget "the SLAM HEARD 'ROUND THE WORLD"??

[MCWAY]

They couldn’t have pushed him any harder - having him beat Honky for the I-C title in under a minute, having Hogan drop the big belt to him at Mania, etc.

Hellwig didn’t know how to work; he only knew how to squash his opponents.
Had he learned things like pacing, psychology, and telling a story within the match, he could have stretched out those feuds.
But, he felt that he was too good for the business and didn’t “need” to learn those things, which is ironic because it could have helped him so much.

Jim never understood that if you run effortlessly through an opponent, give them nothing, & completely annihilate them, who have you beaten?
If, instead, you make the other guy look good, your “victory” means a lot more.
But, Hellwig never got that.
He only knew how to get himself over, he only knew one way to do it, and that was ALL he was ever concerned with.

In that regard, the Ultimate Warrior character was entirely one-dimensional.

His two best opponents (now deceased) were "Ravishing" Rick Rude and "Macho King" Randy Savage. The two IC matches with Rude and the "Career-Ending" Match with the Macho King were awesome. Ironically, Savage got over more, after his loss, with Elizabeth saving him, after Queen Sherri was kicking the mess out of him.

[Montague]

[MCWAY]

I have always maintained that this was due to booking rather than Helwig.

look who they had him face after he beat hogan:

Rude, who he had already destroyed before.

he had already beat Hogan, Andre, Rude, Perfect etc etc.

there was no one left for him to face.

bad booking. should have had him feud with Hogan for a while.

then savage - which WAS good. but by then he was no longer champ.

had they started the Macho Man program while he was still world champ, it might have been a lot better for Warrior.

Warrior wins the world title and they throw him in a bunch of 6 man tag matches with LOD against Demolition.

obviously, he was not going to do well as champ.

as IC champ, they booked him properly and look how over he was. he was arguably more popular than Hogan for pretty much all of 1989 and 90..

Warrior had four major opponents as WWF champion:

Ravishing Rick Rude - Made perfect sense, since Rude beat him for the IC title and was booked as the only guy with a win over Warrior.

"Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase - the heel's heel, and the guy who tried to buy the title (and briefly succeeded.

"Macho King" Randy Savage. Face crazy man vs heel crazy man. That was started when Warrior had the belt.

Sgt. Slaughter: The guy who beat Ultimate Warrior for the title, with some help from Macho King (because Warrior wouldn't give him any more title shots).

[Internet Tough Guy]

If there is one thing Hogan lacks, it's exposure.

[indie-lad]

Warrior is still on the sauce I see.

[leaky_frog]

Scary, but not good scary.