Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Pollux on February 18, 2008, 02:17:54 PM
-
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w142/Flex2000/IMG_0998.jpg?t=1203372986)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w142/Flex2000/IMG_0999.jpg?t=1203373016)
-
The bigger story is where did the 20k prize money go???.Makes you ask the question about Arnold getting married in Sydney,with the promoter of 1980 Olympia as his best man.
-
The bigger story is where did the 20k prize money go???.Makes you ask the question about Arnold getting married in Sydney,with the promoter of 1980 Olympia as his best man.
Arnold got married in Hyannis , Massachusetts .
-
The bigger story is where did the 20k prize money go???.Makes you ask the question about Arnold getting married in Sydney,with the promoter of 1980 Olympia as his best man.
And Franco wasn't the promoter. Damn, you don't know shit about "The Man".
-
Also had a ceremony in Sydney best man was Paul Graham IFBB promoter and Oceania President for life.Like the 80 Olympia was to Arnold as was the Presidents job for Paul a Gift.
-
Also had a ceremony in Sydney best man was Paul Graham IFBB promoter and Oceania President for life.Like the 80 Olympia was to Arnold as was the Presidents job for Paul a Gift.
He didn't get married until 1986 , where are you getting your info?
-
Sorry Arnold was Pauls best man.check story- htpp://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,20574932-10389,00.html. Google Paul Graham Body Builder.
-
I can finally rest after 18 years. Thank you.
-
I love the 1980 but I don't think it was as controversial as most make it out to be. Dickerson was very complete but looked to be under 200 lbs standing next to Arnold. Mentzer came in his best condition but at the expense of his chest. I am a big Mentzer fan but no way he won any front or side mandatories with his chest as thin as it was. The only guy in the line up who matched Arnold upper body wise was Coe but he had no abs. Zane was to thin due to an injury shoulder I believe. Arnold lost some size but had his best conditioning. Not the best version of Arnold we've seen but enough on that day IMO.
-
I can finally rest after 18 years. Thank you.
28 ?
-
I love the 1980 but I don't think it was as controversial as most make it out to be. Dickerson was very complete but looked to be under 200 lbs standing next to Arnold. Mentzer came in his best condition but at the expense of his chest. I am a big Mentzer fan but no way he won any front or side mandatories with his chest as thin as it was. The only guy in the line up who matched Arnold upper body wise was Coe but he had no abs. Zane was to thin due to an injury shoulder I believe. Arnold lost some size but had his best conditioning. Not the best version of Arnold we've seen but enough on that day IMO.
Zane punctured his urethra after sitting in a poolside lounge chair that collapsed. He nearly bled to death...but continued to train for the following several weeks and came in under weight and drawn.
-
Zane punctured his urethra after sitting in a poolside lounge chair that collapsed. He nearly bled to death...but continued to train for the following several weeks and came in under weight and drawn.
Nice find Moosejay your right it was Arnold who had the shoulder injury.
-
Nice find Moosejay your right it was Arnold who had the shoulder injury.
Thanks Phenom.
Yes, Arnold said he'd taken a cortisone injection for a shoulder injury before leaving states for Australia, and that is why he was retaining water.
He went on to aver that he stayed in his hotel room, wore a rubber suit, turned on the oven for a sauna -like effect and went through his posing routine inumerable times to wring the excess fluid from his muscles.
I remember reading this in the 1980 M&F contest report of the Olympia, and, at 17, not reallly believing it for some reason.
-
At the pre judging Arnold kept turning in the opposite direction to the other competitors he was warned not to keep doing it.But he would just smile and laugh.Dude knew it was a lock.He knew if he entered he would win.
-
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w142/Flex2000/IMG_0998.jpg?t=1203372986)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w142/Flex2000/IMG_0999.jpg?t=1203373016)
thanks for the info, can you get us the final score and stats of the 1956 World Series too? hahahaa, what a fucckin' tool. ;D
-
Saw your avatar and thought I'd share this pic with ya.
I had lunch with Mr. T just a few months back and took this pic.
(Something weird happened to the pic when I uploaded it. It smashed my eyes closed :o)
-
you're a big thick dude man.
-
you're a big thick dude man.
Thanks Bro.
-
thanks for the info, can you get us the final score and stats of the 1956 World Series too? hahahaa, what a fucckin' tool. ;D
why is he a tool, squad? I thought those score sheets were pretty cool to see....
-
Thanks Bro.
Where was this pic taken>???
And I think you could take T in the Octagon-think about it.
-
why is he a tool, squad? I thought those score sheets were pretty cool to see....
I agree, I have NEVER seen these score sheets before-for any pro BBing show, much less one of the most contested shows in history. Very cool.
Remember, Arnold was booed heavily when he was announced the winner and was very upset with the crowd reaction (booing) to him winning.
Paul Graham should NEVER had allowed Arnold to enter the show, never.
-
holy shit, breaking news..................WW 2 is over, Japan has surrendered. :D
-
Paul needed Arnold there so he didn't have to pay the 20k prize money.Payback is payback.
-
According to USA laws, once aliens are convicted of a felony in USA you cannot get visas to visit there. That was the way it was years ago. In spite of that law, Paul Graham, who spent a couple of years in jail in America after being arrested in Honolulu in early 1969 for exporting stolen cars to Australia, still managed to attend Arnold's wedding and visited America on more than one occasion back in those days.
There were people in Australia who wanted to remove Paul from his president's position in the Australian IFBB. They apparently alerted the authorities when Paul was going to the USA but Paul got in, anyway. I mean, why let a silly law prevent you from being at your mate's wedding? Paul has held his position with the IFBB but merely changed the organization when challenged. Talk about corruption in the IFBB. It appears that both Paul and Ben have had life appointments.
I have posted my story at Ironage of Arnold living with Paul, Bob Bruce, and Ken Moran way back in 1968-69 in Los Angeles. Ken had to vacate the USA because he told us he had an accident while driving on the wrong side of the road. Somehow he miraculously managed to obtain a near new red Shelby Mustang which was the envy of everyone in Vancouver, BC, who saw it. Ken was from New Zealand and he boasted of living with Arnold but few believed him.
I was visiting Honolulu on my way home from a holiday in Sydney in January/February, 1969. My ex's relatives gave us a clipping showing a cartoon of an Australian muscleman holding up a vehicle. The story said that Lord Paul, Mr Australia had been arrested by the FBI for dealing in stolen vehicles and international commerce or something like that. In other words, Paul was nabbed for stealing cars in LA and sending them back to Australia to sell. American cars were worth a fortune in Australia even though they had to be converted to right hand drive. Paul never won the Mr Australia title but was 2nd I think. He won two trophies in a Southern Mr Universe promoted by his mate Bob Bruce in Surfers Paradise. Paul won best chest and best arms but lost to Frank Columbera. It always amused me to hear the wrestling announcer claim that Lord Paul had won the Mr Universe title twice. Talk about misinformation and an exaggeration. He would get wrestlers to jump from a high ladder onto his abdomen and be unhurt. Later in a match any mug could floor Paul with a single 'punch' to the gut! That was show business.
I saw Arnold and Dave Draper there at Mits Gym. I never put the Moran association together until later when it all fit. It appears that Paul took the rap for the others and anyone else involved owed Paul big time. Am I saying that Moran and the others in that house helped Paul with his enterprise? I have no idea. What does anyone else think? It is one thing to know but another to have evidence. I do know that Ken took that expensive Shelby Mustang back to New Zealand and I haven't heard from Ken since. Good luck to him. Did Arnold owe Paul? Who knows? However, it is not known if Arnold took his prize money home after the 80 Olympia. Paul told me that he lost a lot of money promoting that contest. The IFBB fee was about $20,000, plus judges and officials had to be brought to Australia and accommodated. Then you have the competitors. It is very expensive to fly to Sydney from elsewhere. Whether Paul saved some money re Arnold's generosity only those two know. I don't like speculating on matters of fact that I cannot establish. The suspicions have persisted.
I was at the Coogee Gym in Sydney in 1972 when a big Paul Graham arrived in his blue, 'visiting' uniform. Shortly after he arrived he obtained a small gym and a vehicle from Billy Moore, a local gym owner who eventually owned then sold City Gym in downtown Sydney. I heard that Billy used to import fancy American cars and sell them for a profit. Am I suggesting that Billy and Paul were business partners? Hell, no, I have no idea at all about any of that. It appears that Paul has mates everywhere and has done very well for himself. He spent time in jail but came out a bigger bodybuilder and seemed to have a good business sense. He was elected as Australian IFBB President in a meeting in Melbourne in 1972 supervised by Frank Burwash. Paul has never looked back since. He owns a couple of expensive houses in Sydney last time I heard and has a gym in Coogee. The original Coogee Gym was closed by Barry Hart decades ago. Robert Nailon acquired the equipment and moved the gym to Randwick. Robert sold that gym long ago, too. Both gyms were rather small. However, the beach side gym was a great place to go to train. After your workout you could go for a walk along the beach to check the shape or go for a swim and or a run. Those were the good old days in Sydney.
Have a look at those scores from the 80 Olympia. What made the contest a mess was that many of the judges did not separate the men during the rounds. Look at how many competitors received a score of 20 in each round. If a judge gave more than one 20 in a round he wasn't doing his job. Oh, that was easy enough to do because when the guys came out and looked great you could award them 20. However, the next guy might have looked better but you couldn't give him more. Oscar State did nothing about this and so all the judges who gave duplicate 20 scores were virtually eliminating themselves from the judging process. Both Brendan Ryan and Peter McCarthy separated them in each round. If you replace Brendan's scores with Peter's then Arnold would have been ahead after the three rounds. Arnold won the posedown 5 to 2 so some judges had changed their minds at the finals the next day. Brendan had Dickerson third after Zane so that helped Arnold a lot. I haven't got Peter's scores with me but I worked out that Arnold would have lost by a point had Peter judged instead of Brendan. What is obvious is the contest was very close.
Someone said Arnold had the biggest upper body there. Yes, his chest was huge as were his arms. However, the biggest guy, muscle for muscle was Danny Padilla and he wasn't compared even once in the prejudging. When I looked at the photos from the judging he clearly had the best overall physique there. A pity he was so short because he was completely overlooked that year and perhaps cheated the next year as well.
I bought a gym at West Ryde in 1971 and we expanded several times and now are located at Meadowbank in a 20,000 square foot facility. I met Bill Howard in 1980 and he had some photos of his World Class Gym Equipment. I foolishly began an equipment business after retiring as a high school teacher. Those designs seemed solid and easy to make. I designed my own equipment but Bill gave me a start. I have gone way beyond what I made in those days beginning in 1981. I curse the day I decided to open a factory and make equipment instead of buying what we needed. I think the cost of gym equipment was exorbitant because it had to be imported and duty and taxes paid. These extra fees made the equipment cost about twice what Americans paid for it. You don't save anything if you have to design, test, and modify equipment. I built equipment for a few gyms in Australia but stopped making equipment for other gyms in 1985. Since then I build things only for my own gym. I also occasionally modify equipment made by others if things break down or improvements are needed.
Here is a Nautilus machine I altered to make it cable drive instead of dirty chains that stretched and occasionally broke. This was a huge project that took quite a while to complete. Machine works and feels much better now and should be maintenance free. Some muscle head snapped the three 3/8 bolts on the cam! I replaced those with 1/2 inch bolts. Plus, I put some heavier plates on the machine at the bottom of the weight stack which is now about 340 pounds.
-
why is he a tool, squad? I thought those score sheets were pretty cool to see....
Because if it has nothing to do with scandalous men* to state how good they look, score sheets do not appeal to him.
*see Derek Anthony; Kai Greene; Rodney St. Cloud, etc.
-
Saw your avatar and thought I'd share this pic with ya.
I had lunch with Mr. T just a few months back and took this pic.
Thanks for sharing. :)
Mr. T rocks! 8)
-
why is he a tool, squad? I thought those score sheets were pretty cool to see....
I agree, I have NEVER seen these score sheets before-for any pro BBing show, much less one of the most contested shows in history. Very cool.
Good to see my work is appreciated it. ;D
-
Look at the judges' scores in each round. Busak gave out way too many 20 scores. What was he thinking? Ditto for some of the other judges. They weren't separating the men. Reg Park and Brendan Ryan were mates of Arnold so how come they were judging? Goodness knows, but Arnold was friendly with most of the judges. Didn't Mits bring him out to Honolulu more than once to put on shows? I was there in 1969 when that happened. So Arnold was quite smart and got to know whoever might help him in his career.
When you look at the photos from the contest it is clear that a case can be made for several of the competitors to have won that day. Dickerson, Zane, Mentzer, Coe, Tinerino, Walker, Callendar, Padilla. Dickerson and Bannout went on to win a couple of years later. Mysteriously, Franco won in 81 when others felt Padilla or even Platz was the best. I haven't met anyone who felt Franco should have won. Well, except Franco!
What amazed me is how the IFBB retained the silly rounds judging system. Poor Ben believed it gave bodybuilding respectability and would help get it recognized by the Olympic committee. That was a pipe dream. The NABBA Universe evolved a better system where the competitors are placed and not given points. There are no scoring rounds except to choose finalists. Of course, I don't know what I am talking about and all such matters should be deferred to the much more expert and loopy Bob Chick, the appointed athlete's rep.
-
Look at the judges' scores in each round. Busak gave out way too many 20 scores. What was he thinking? Ditto for some of the other judges. They weren't separating the men. Reg Park and Brendan Ryan were mates of Arnold so how come they were judging? Goodness knows, but Arnold was friendly with most of the judges. Didn't Mits bring him out to Honolulu more than once to put on shows? I was there in 1969 when that happened. So Arnold was quite smart and got to know whoever might help him in his career.
When you look at the photos from the contest it is clear that a case can be made for several of the competitors to have won that day. Dickerson, Zane, Mentzer, Coe, Tinerino, Walker, Callendar, Padilla. Dickerson and Bannout went on to win a couple of years later. Mysteriously, Franco won in 81 when others felt Padilla or even Platz was the best. I haven't met anyone who felt Franco should have won. Well, except Franco!
What amazed me is how the IFBB retained the silly rounds judging system. Poor Ben believed it gave bodybuilding respectability and would help get it recognized by the Olympic committee. That was a pipe dream. The NABBA Universe evolved a better system where the competitors are placed and not given points. There are no scoring rounds except to choose finalists. Of course, I don't know what I am talking about and all such matters should be deferred to the much more expert and loopy Bob Chick, the appointed athlete's rep.
At least we finally agree about something...
-
There is a history re judging in Sydney that many do not know. I was invited by Fred Vella to judge a Mr NSW contest way back in 1971 or 72. I placed Robert Deigan ahead of Paul Graham much to the surprise of Robert himself. A few years later I put a South Australian John Kosura ahead of Paul in the Mr South Pacific contest and Paul ended up coming second and wasn't very happy.
In 1975 I challenged the 'paper tiger' Robert Nailon to compete in the Mr Australia Contest and Robert won a controversial Mr NSW a couple of weeks before that show ahead of a, in my opinion, better Hans Meyer. Perhaps Robert got the nod from his mates that were judging? Anyway, several of us booed and after the show Robert got wind of who was booing. Paul and Arnold heard this and made sure I came last at the Mr Australia in Melbourne.
In another Mr Australia at the Opera House Ted Matush won perhaps 4 times that night! Paul was promoting that show and clearly favoured huge Bill Robertson from Perth. After he saw that I place Bill 3rd behind 2nd Ted Matush and 1st Sonny Gloynes, Paul declared that my vote didn't count! That was fixing a show for sure and no promoter should interfer with the results. So at night I changed my vote and put Ted first and not Sonny. Sonny wore sun glasses and everyone presumed he was a musclehead but he was the only one with a balanced physique at the show. Ted had great legs while Bill won all the upper body awards. Frank Burwash was the head judge and assumed the scores were the same as in the prejudging. He announced to Paul there had been a tie for first place. Yes, but I separated the men so Ted was the winner. Anyway, since Burwash failed to see my score they appointed 3 more judges and rejudged the finalists. Amazingly there was now a tie because you had 8 judges instead of 5 and with my altered score we had an impass.
Paul was good on the microphone and announced the audience would decide the event. Ted clearly had the loudest applause. Paul rejected this because Ted was a local boy so that was not fair to Frank. Since when is it fair to have the audience judge a bodybuilding contest? Since when does the promoter/announcer decide who had the most applause or how the contest should be judged? Clearly this man has no right running any bodybuilding contests after this fiasco.
Next he got the other competitors to rejudge the finalists. I mean, this is lunacy personified but Paul was not going to be stopped. Astonishingly, Ted scored something like 2 more votes than Bill so finally won the title. While this commotion was occurring a couple of the judges protested and went to the back of the audience and yelled out it was a fix, etc. We all learned you can't win an argument with a guy with the microphone. That was a disgrace. Had one bodybuilding judge changed his score for Frank it would have been another tie and I venture to say Paul would have recruited the Opera House staff or perhaps passersby to come in and settle who was best.
Paul had a score to settle with me and got even at the 75 Mr Australia when he gave me 25 points out of 100. Arnold also placed me last and this is evidence that he was involved in dishonest judging. I never respected either man after that.
Is it any wonder that I wasn't invited to judge the 80 Olympia? I was a former IFBB Mr Canada and could have done that task with honour. There were many local champs who could have been selected to represent Australia. How Paul appointed young Brendan to represent Australia is bizarre to say the least. This is as close as it comes to trying to fix a contest for his mate Arnold. Why wasn't Peter told when the judges meeting was occurring? Peter was in the Opera House waiting. No one came to tell him and no announcements were made. Peter was finally alerted but it was too late for him to judge. According to Oscar State if a judge missed the meeting he couldn't judge. WTF is that crap? Either a person can judge or he cannot. It would have been an easy matter for someone to inform Peter of what happened, etc.
I have talked to Paul since those days. I hear he doesn't like when it is mentioned that he served time in jail for car theft. Well, he should have thought about that before committing those crimes. That the IFBB let a car thief be a vice-president and Australian president is one of those things. Jobs for the boys. Paul excels in loyalty and no one can fault his loyalty to the IFBB. He has made a lot of money out of promoting IFBB shows in Australia. Good for Paul. At least he is enterprising while the rest of the Aussies accept this without much complaint. Well, people did protest vigorously but it was ignored by the IFBB. There weren't any open elections for the president's position since he was voted in way back in 1972.
-
I can't figure out why Bob Chick would read the nonsense of a guy who is so outside what his happening in this great sport. At least I know he reads what I post.
-
This Crap has been going on forever and will never change and at the end of the day who cares??Burwash challenged Paul once and Paul almost smashed the table it was never about BB is is and has always been about $$$$Money$$$$.Anyone who thinks different is a FOOL.
-
I only skim through your posts...spotted my name (as usual) and answered.
Take your last post for example....too long and boring to actually read....skimmed through...Paul this, paul that....arnold placed you last...blah blah...invented the squat rack....IFBB sucks...paul.....blah blah..........
-
Yeah, that shit happened a long time ago. Funny how it doesn't seem that long ago to those of us who were there.
Paul is street smart for sure. He knows how to protect his territory and livelihood.
-
I only skim through your posts...spotted my name (as usual) and answered.
Take your last post for example....too long and boring to actually read....skimmed through...Paul this, paul that....arnold placed you last...blah blah...invented the squat rack....IFBB sucks...paul.....blah blah..........
LOL. Chick, I doubt you have enough comprehension skills to actually fathom a full paragraph!
-
Thank God Paul Jr is there ready to take the reins,hey wait that sounds like Erik Weider.
-
I heard that Paul Junior was told to get a hammer when a piece of gym equipment wasn't right. When he asked his dad what to do when the hammer didn't fix the problem, Paul senior told him to get a bigger hammer! That is classic gym owner mentality. Paul didn't like crowds and was upset that people might stare at him. He recruited young Paul to manage his gym. Seems like a nice bloke.
Anyone remember the challenge mounted by Helmut Cernig, former Mr World, and his girlfriend Gaye to Paul's position as president? They gave it a good go but Paul cleverly listened to instructions from headquarters and changed the name of his organization to national physique committee or something like that and the whole issue evaporated and those stalwarts abandoned that task. You have to admire the way the Godfather looked after his boys.
ps. TB don't forget to phone Paul and tell him what I posted!
-
Helmut and Gaye use to put on a great porn show in the cross would have made a good IFBB President and secretary.Not sure if they had been in jail or not that could have been the cruncher for them not to have been elected.
-
Gaye would never do a porn show! She dumped Helmut and he went with a female bodybuilder named Joy. She competed in some shows we ran back in the early 80s. I saw her topless on Bondi Beach. I have some photos of her somewhere both on the beach and a few years ago when she was working in a small circus. She ran a deal where you got a prize if you could reach the top without falling off/over on the special rope ladder. She then demonstated how to do it. She was very athletic.
Anyone know where Helmut is today?
-
Where was this pic taken>???
And I think you could take T in the Octagon-think about it.
The Palm Restaurant in Los Angeles.
I don't know about the Octagon. He seemed to be on his game, even though he's out of shape.
-
Vince it was post Gaye it was Porn with Joy Dobson in the cross.Now does that ring a bell.
-
Yes, but wasn't that an artistic show staged by Joy and Helmut. That is what they both said. Not pornographic at all. Gotta love those exhibitionists. I never did see that sideshow but it was amazing that you could see live sex on stage at Kings Cross years ago. I don't know if they still allow those shows to go on.
I onced told Joy that Helmut looked like crap. She said he looked as good as me! That was a reality check. I always threaten that I will look good next swimming season! I carry a bit of safety fat but nothing to worry about. ;)
-
Here is that video Joy made years ago. I haven't seen it.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Dobson-Nude-Miss-International/dp/B00008T4X2
-
great find - thanks pollux.
i see dickerson and zane placed ahead of arnold in the third round. any photos of the second and fourth round scoresheets?
-
Zane punctured his urethra after sitting in a poolside lounge chair that collapsed. He nearly bled to death...but continued to train for the following several weeks and came in under weight and drawn.
WTF??
-
Do you have the 1981 scoresheet too? Be interesting to see how close that call was, since Franco clearly should have lost that one.
-
Do you have the 1981 scoresheet too? Be interesting to see how close that call was, since Franco clearly should have lost that one.
Yes. It can be found in the 1st edition of Arnold's Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding. If no one can post it then I guess I'll take the liberty of doing so when I get around to it.
-
Do you have the 1981 scoresheet too? Be interesting to see how close that call was, since Franco clearly should have lost that one.
First Mr O winner to have chicken legs with not a single cut to them.
-
great find - thanks pollux.
i see dickerson and zane placed ahead of arnold in the third round. any photos of the second and fourth round scoresheets?
The first two rounds scores are in the first photo in the original post. The 4th round was the posedown at the bottom of the second photo. All the results are there.
-
The first two rounds scores are in the first photo in the original post. The 4th round was the posedown at the bottom of the second photo. All the results are there.
thanks vince.
-
Way too many 20 perfect scores were given away in each round. There should be no more than 7 X 20 scores in each round.
Round 1............14 X 20 points among 7 contestants
Round 2............20 X 20 points among 8 contestants
Round 3............25 X 20 points among 10 contestants
Total ...............59 X 20 points among 10 contestants
The contestants who received perfect 20 scores per round are:
Arnold 5 6 2 = 13 plus 5 in posedown
Chris 2 3 5 = 10 plus 2 in posedown
Frank 3 3 3 = 9
Boyer 0 2 3 = 5
Mike 1 2 2 = 5
Roger 1 2 1 = 5
Roy 1 1 3 = 5
Dennis 1 1 1 = 3
Ed 0 0 4 = 4
Samir 0 0 1 = 1
Interestingly the number of 20 scores correlates well with the placings. Except for Ed Corney who was rewarded for his posing ability in round 3. It is obvious that there is a case to be made for any of the top 7 guys to be thought the best there.
Clearly this proves that the selection and training of judges is extemely important. Also, there should be a method to make sure this sort of scoring doesn't happen again. The head judge could have tallied the scores after the first competitor presented in each round and made sure this score was modified to allow for higher placings. Perhaps they should have been able to give half points to separate close competitors.