Train like crazy for 5 years and make no gains ??? Hint: current Mr. Olympia

[Peaking at 45 !!!]

This is not to be critical, but just an observation-------Many believe even though Jay won The Olympia (finally), he was still not at his best-------as many believe his best was 2001.

Now we all know that Jay has been training steady ever since 2001 and has been a man on a mission-----how about his crazy eating schedule where he wakes up in the middle of the night to feed himself, etc. He has been focused and extremely dedicated. I cant recall Jay taking extended time off from training or having major injuries, etc.

So...    So... The point is, has 5 years of all out training and dieting not made any difference to Jays physique ? I'd say he has brought his back up, and etched  some deeper grooves in his thighs------but is that all that 5 solid years of training and dieting will do if you are already at your maximum development?

Appearantly so-------Again the point here is that once your physique has reached a certain level-------even if you are the most disciplined bodybuilder in the world (and Jay just might be), look how tough it is to make additional gains to your physique !!!

We're talking 5 years of hardcore bodybuilding training and dieting---and many still think he looked better in 2001 !!!

Thats a lot of workouts---thousands of hours-----and 2001 is still his best ?

Its kind of a bummer to think about it that way-----all that dedication and still no (or very minimal ) improvements ? 

[rocket]

Considering how blocky he is and how much better Ronnie is as "the freak" I think Jay has done well.  There are far better physiques in their own mould (ie aesthetic dex, mass/aesthetic vic) and yet he's managed to poach Mr Olympia.

The 5 years were worth it in his eyes no doubt.

[Peaking at 45 !!!]

I agree the 5 years were well worth it, but my point is all that time and effort training and dieting, and most people think he still looked better 5 years ago.

[240 is Back]

his back got wider since 2001, which let him beat ronnie.

however his front got wide too.  blah.

[IFBBwannaB]

When you are at that level you need hardcore lifting and perfect diet just to stay the same,not to mention getting better.

This isnt what you are used to,these people are pushing the genetic envelope.

[Abraham000]

I read in a Flex magazine where they're experimenting with genetics on rats to see if they can build more muscle and that this could make its way to humans in the long term.

[Peaking at 45 !!!]

Right ----Jay has reached his genetic potential----even 5 years of hardcore bodybuilding lifestyle cant make a difference, it only seems to maintain what he already has.

Just think if someone took a picture of many of us today, and told us we would train and diet hardcore for 5 years straight-----what would we look like in 5 years from now ?

What will Jay look like 5 years from now if he continues his current training and diet -------will people say he has made no progress and still looks the same ?

Again ---this thread is in no way being critical of Jay------it just got me thinking how so many feel he looked better 5 years ago, but since 5 years ago steady training has not really improved him, only maintained him----and Jay is one of the most disciplined bodybuilders on the planet !!!!  

Just a curious observation.

[andydude00]

You also have to take into account that the body is dynamic. For example look at Ronnie, Jay, Dorian. They each have their training styles, their gurus (doz didn't have one to my knowledge). How much change can you expect if they don't change up their training styles, and diet styles. I mean I'm sure there are some changes implemented, but imagine if Ronnie changed up his training and did a crazy amount reps per set or something. Itd probably cause some sort of change since it would shock his system (it could also f*@k him up lol....) since the body will always try to arrive at homeostasis. Same thing with Jay, his isolateral training style might not allow him to go as heavy as he could, or maybe if he used of different training techniques he could get even more change. Also what if they changed their diets. If Ronnie, Jay, or even King went on a pure liquid diet of protein shakes every hour with granulated flour for carbs (this would make each meal a very small quantity) would this help in decreasing the gut area (in conjunction with laying off the gh and insulin)? Jay has had some great improvements to his back, he even had detail in his back this year. I am sure he could do more.

[Wombat]

I see you haven't followed Shawn Ray's Career...Or Kevin Levrone and Chris Cormier for that matter...

[Figo]

Those 3 boys, especially Ray and Levrone really knew how to manipulate their physiques, but they also understood the boundaries of their physiques.

[torquemada]

Appearantly so-------Again the point here is that once your physique has reached a certain level-------even if you are the most disciplined bodybuilder in the world (and Jay just might be), look how tough it is to make additional gains to your physique !!!

That's pretty much accurate w/ everybody once you hit a certain level...killing yourself for another 1/2 in on the arms...

[rccs]

I agree the 5 years were well worth it, but my point is all that time and effort training and dieting, and most people think he still looked better 5 years ago.

Do you know that concept of "aging"?
Probably if he didn't worked as hard as he did he would not have the present body! Ronnie in 2001 was a little better, however he couldn't sustain his level if he didn't train like hell, juicing and eating like if there is no tomorrow!

[Rearden Metal]

Jay is 20 lbs heavier in ripped condition than 2001. The physiques are night and day. 2006 would wipe 2001, as good as it was, off the stage.

[rocco911]

This is not to be critical, but just an observation-------Many believe even though Jay won The Olympia (finally), he was still not at his best-------as many believe his best was 2001.

Now we all know that Jay has been training steady ever since 2001 and has been a man on a mission-----how about his crazy eating schedule where he wakes up in the middle of the night to feed himself, etc. He has been focused and extremely dedicated. I cant recall Jay taking extended time off from training or having major injuries, etc.

So...    So... The point is, has 5 years of all out training and dieting not made any difference to Jays physique ? I'd say he has brought his back up, and etched  some deeper grooves in his thighs------but is that all that 5 solid years of training and dieting will do if you are already at your maximum development?

Appearantly so-------Again the point here is that once your physique has reached a certain level-------even if you are the most disciplined bodybuilder in the world (and Jay just might be), look how tough it is to make additional gains to your physique !!!

We're talking 5 years of hardcore bodybuilding training and dieting---and many still think he looked better in 2001 !!!

Thats a lot of workouts---thousands of hours-----and 2001 is still his best ?

Its kind of a bummer to think about it that way-----all that dedication and still no (or very minimal ) improvements ? 

A competitor is not judged based on history, they are judge based on what is presented on that day and that time; hence Jay winning the Olympia as he deserved.

[body88]

Um there comes a point where you pretty much max out your genetics. Take as much drugs as you choose/ want to and age starts to catch up with you. Not to mention injuries and or personal setbacks. I would say 270 at 5'9 might be maxed out. Just a guess tho Ronnie looked 10 times better in 99. Are you retarded?

[Peaking at 45 !!!]

Um there comes a point where you pretty much max out your genetics. Take as much drugs as you choose/ want to and age starts to catch up with you. Not to mention injuries and or personal setbacks. I would say 270 at 5'9 might be maxed out. Just a guess tho Ronnie looked 10 times better in 99. Are you retarded?

Jay is not that old as far as bodybuilders go---5 years ago he would just start to get into his prime years--so the age debate is not a factor in his case----also, Ronnie looked his freakiest in 2003-------when he was almost 40 years old !!!

[Figo]

How old is Jay?

[Jr. Yates]

How old is Jay?

35 now i think??

[mrsirjojo]

35 now i think??

Just turned 33 actually, but looks almost 40. That hairstyle has got to go!

[Jr. Yates]

Just turned 33 actually, but looks almost 40. That hairstyle has got to go!

I think Jay just looks so much older when hes dieted right down and all super tanned. just like the rest of the pros. he doesn't look that bad in the off season pictures i have seen. as for the hair, yeah I agree he has to change it somehow, he should dye it black and cut it normal.

[jem123]

Jay is 20 lbs heavier in ripped condition than 2001. The physiques are night and day. 2006 would wipe 2001, as good as it was, off the stage.

This is an interesting point of view. I am not so sure that the current version of Jay is better than 2001. Yes he is heavier as you say but with his genetics this has def made him blockier. However I will concede his back is much better today.

[Earl1972]

Just turned 33 actually, but looks almost 40. That hairstyle has got to go!

that's what keeps him young looking

every kid at 12 had that haircut

E

[body88]

Jay is not that old as far as bodybuilders go---5 years ago he would just start to get into his prime years--so the age debate is not a factor in his case----also, Ronnie looked his freakiest in 2003-------when he was almost 40 years old !!!

He started bodybuilding very late. Its all the same.

[theworm]

Can someone post comparison pics of Jay 2001 - 2006?

I think he has improved, but I know what you are saying.  5 years, prob $300,000 in drugs (no idea), 5 years of training, hundreds of workouts, and couple hundred thousands of dollars in food.  All he did was gain 20 pounds in 5 years?  Seems depressing.

[Peaking at 45 !!!]

You also have to take into account that the body is dynamic. For example look at Ronnie, Jay, Dorian. They each have their training styles, their gurus (doz didn't have one to my knowledge). How much change can you expect if they don't change up their training styles, and diet styles. I mean I'm sure there are some changes implemented, but imagine if Ronnie changed up his training and did a crazy amount reps per set or something. Itd probably cause some sort of change since it would shock his system (it could also f*@k him up lol....) since the body will always try to arrive at homeostasis. Same thing with Jay, his isolateral training style might not allow him to go as heavy as he could, or maybe if he used of different training techniques he could get even more change. Also what if they changed their diets. If Ronnie, Jay, or even King went on a pure liquid diet of protein shakes every hour with granulated flour for carbs (this would make each meal a very small quantity) would this help in decreasing the gut area (in conjunction with laying off the gh and insulin)? Jay has had some great improvements to his back, he even had detail in his back this year. I am sure he could do more.





Interesting point---It would be nice to think that you will continue to make some improvements when your training is so dedicated--we all like to see progress and strive for better----maybe if Jay tried different systems it could make more of a change in the next 5 years than we have seen in the last 5 years .