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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: Borracho on August 02, 2013, 06:54:39 AM

Title: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Borracho on August 02, 2013, 06:54:39 AM
Saw this kid at the gym looking like a lobster so I asked him if he went to the beach...laughs and says no he just took some niacin. Says its a vasodilator, gives me a pill and within 5 minutes I start burning up. Holy shit, I'm feeling like I'm gonna have a heart attack and itching like a crack head. Workout was a bit too uncomfortable to notice an increase in pump...

I'm not the type to take something without reading up on it first but being that its just a b vitamin I said what the hell. So apparently this stuff improves hdl and lowers ldl, helps rid the body of toxins, promotes healthy skin and joint health among other benefits.

There are some formulas that are "flush free" but I'm not sure if some health benefits would be diminished. From my experience I would start off with the lowest dose if you get the regular stuff with the flush cause it can feel quite overwhelming....
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Montague on August 02, 2013, 04:15:38 PM
Some folks only get that flush the first few times using niacin, with the flush/tingling sensation subsiding thereafter.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Borracho on August 03, 2013, 07:18:51 AM
Some folks only get that flush the first few times using niacin, with the flush/tingling sensation subsiding thereafter.

Yup.

If anyone decides to try this start off on lower doses and work your way up. It can be very uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: njflex on August 03, 2013, 08:40:09 PM
Yup.

If anyone decides to try this start off on lower doses and work your way up. It can be very uncomfortable.
hated niacin ..
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: calfzilla on August 10, 2013, 01:54:01 AM
I have this thermite if I sometimes take, it has niacin. Usually I just take 1 pill but one day I took 2 (as directed) and I got the flush. It kinda freaked me out at first because I wasn't sure what was causing it and im a little prone to anxiety, then remembered I took two pills with niacin. It goes away pretty soon though.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Necrosis on August 14, 2013, 06:24:12 AM
Don't take too much niacin, it's hepatotoxic and the flusing is vasodialation but also some histaminergic activity.

However, it's the absolute best HDL increasing agent we have.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Borracho on August 14, 2013, 06:44:10 AM
Don't take too much niacin, it's hepatotoxic and the flusing is vasodialation but also some histaminergic activity.

However, it's the absolute best HDL increasing agent we have.

How much would be too much?

The histamine activity is interesting....it's what causes the itchyness right?

What are the dangers with the histamine activity and would benadryl negate this?
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Princess L on August 14, 2013, 08:08:41 AM
Don't take too much niacin, it's hepatotoxic and the flusing is vasodialation but also some histaminergic activity.

However, it's the absolute best HDL increasing agent we have.

I'm not up to speed on this, but I thought I read (relatively recently - a year or so) that has been dis-proven  ???

Edit:  This is what I heard.  http://host.madison.com/news/local/ask/dr-paster/dr-zorba-paster-niacin-and-cholesterol/article_f8254bd8-7387-5da3-83fb-d1ec80789e56.html
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Dago_Joe on September 23, 2013, 08:18:01 AM
There are more convenient just as effective methods for increasing HDL and lowering LDL.  I had a health screening done at work and the nurse was shocked to see my hdl so low her meter couldn't read it and my ldl so high it also couldn't be read accurately on her shitty little handheld meter!!  I was on a heavy cycle at the time and eating gh15 style with lots or reeses ice cream  :P  Anyways, I started taking 8 grams of high quality fish oil caps daily and my levels were back to normal within 3 months!!  I actually was shocked because i thought it was all hype, but fish oil does miracles for cholesterol.  And you don't end up looking like markus ruhl after eating a chinese buffet and smoking a carton of camels ie lobster face.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Necrosis on September 24, 2013, 06:23:01 PM
There are more convenient just as effective methods for increasing HDL and lowering LDL.  I had a health screening done at work and the nurse was shocked to see my hdl so low her meter couldn't read it and my ldl so high it also couldn't be read accurately on her shitty little handheld meter!!  I was on a heavy cycle at the time and eating gh15 style with lots or reeses ice cream  :P  Anyways, I started taking 8 grams of high quality fish oil caps daily and my levels were back to normal within 3 months!!  I actually was shocked because i thought it was all hype, but fish oil does miracles for cholesterol.  And you don't end up looking like markus ruhl after eating a chinese buffet and smoking a carton of camels ie lobster face.

Fish oil increase LDL cholesterol, and it's only impact on lipids is lowering triglycerides.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Necrosis on September 24, 2013, 06:36:21 PM

I'm not up to speed on this, but I thought I read (relatively recently - a year or so) that has been dis-proven  ???

Edit:  This is what I heard.  http://host.madison.com/news/local/ask/dr-paster/dr-zorba-paster-niacin-and-cholesterol/article_f8254bd8-7387-5da3-83fb-d1ec80789e56.html

Long acting niacin is not niacin but niacin hexoniconate. The data is one million percent against his claim, niacin has many many benefits for CVD amongst being the best HDL increaser(independent risk factor and variable in Chol ratios), lowering LDL, anti-thrombosis, anti-inflammatory effects etc.

His comparison of side effects is equally laughable. Statins have some pretty serious side effects, he even lists death as a side effect WTF. An essential nutrients side effect is death when used within reasonable ranges? does that sound logical? what about the fact that it's water soluble and pretty ubiquitous?

Statins are good drugs, Rhabdo and liver damage are pretty serious sides that actually occur with normal therapeutic dosages.

Niacin's limiting factor and why I would rather a statin is the flush and paresthenia. I also note increased histamine from niacin as it likely destabilizes mast cells and would exacerbate that in sensitive individuals.

He also cherry picked a claim that long acting was not effective, never mind the studies that show this over and over(some dispute him). We know long acting niacin is liver toxic and less effective then niacin. Why he choose to switch between the two, namely when it suited his purpose it's almost like he has an agenda.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Dago_Joe on September 25, 2013, 06:52:21 AM
Fish oil increase LDL cholesterol, and it's only impact on lipids is lowering triglycerides.


That's weird because my ldl decreased big time and my hdl increased.  My doctor even asked me if I went vegetarian or something because it was a significant change.  Huh, guess I was wrong.  Still, fish oils are not a bad thing to take for overall health.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: benchmstr on September 25, 2013, 02:20:03 PM
that happens everytime i take the shit...sometimes its funny though

bench
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Necrosis on September 25, 2013, 02:38:07 PM
That's weird because my ldl decreased big time and my hdl increased.  My doctor even asked me if I went vegetarian or something because it was a significant change.  Huh, guess I was wrong.  Still, fish oils are not a bad thing to take for overall health.

Not at all. The only approved medical use for esterified fish oils is high triglycerides. I too have noticed the opposite but I suspect this has to do with epigenetics and individual gene expression. Some people avoid this effect with fish oil phospholipid compounds.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: f450 on October 03, 2013, 05:12:14 AM
Not at all. The only approved medical use for esterified fish oils is high triglycerides. I too have noticed the opposite but I suspect this has to do with epigenetics and individual gene expression. Some people avoid this effect with fish oil phospholipid compounds.

examples of these? Krill oil?
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Necrosis on October 03, 2013, 06:26:41 AM
ya krill oil
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Necrosis on October 03, 2013, 06:29:03 AM
How much would be too much?

The histamine activity is interesting....it's what causes the itchyness right?

What are the dangers with the histamine activity and would benadryl negate this?

I would say anything over a couple grams, 3 or so would be venturing into toxicity.

The itching is the same but different mechanism. Vasodialation is the most likely culprit.

No dangers of histamine, in the stomach it would increase your acid, reflux etc. in the body you would feel inflamed, congested etc. however this passes and is dose dependent.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Borracho on October 04, 2013, 08:50:08 AM
One more thing about niacin that's been bugging me necrosis is that it inhibits fat breakdown. Don't know to what extent and if it would be best to avoid during periods of dieting... :-\ 
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Montague on October 04, 2013, 01:59:07 PM
One more thing about niacin that's been bugging me necrosis is that it inhibits fat breakdown. Don't know to what extent and if it would be best to avoid during periods of dieting... :-\ 


You may find some of this info useful: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=426775.0
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Borracho on October 04, 2013, 03:30:56 PM

You may find some of this info useful: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=426775.0

Thanks montague.

That adipose tissue breakdown inhibition is really bothersome since I don't consume enough dietary fats and carbs when dieting to have a positive effect on their metabolism. I was taking this stuff but after a little bit more reading I think its best if I stopped taking it.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Montague on October 04, 2013, 03:55:06 PM
Thanks montague.

That adipose tissue breakdown inhibition is really bothersome since I don't consume enough dietary fats and carbs when dieting to have a positive effect on their metabolism. I was taking this stuff but after a little bit more reading I think its best if I stopped taking it.


I wouldn't bother with it.

Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: WOOO on October 11, 2013, 05:06:37 AM
so i bought a bottle of niacin... what's the normal amount for a flush? is it preferable to use it on lifting days only or daily? is there value in not taking for period of time?
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Necrosis on October 11, 2013, 07:08:20 AM
so i bought a bottle of niacin... what's the normal amount for a flush? is it preferable to use it on lifting days only or daily? is there value in not taking for period of time?

If the flush is your goal periodic dosing would be ideal, as tolerance does build to that effect. I would say1-1.5 grams and you will be in pleasure town.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Borracho on October 11, 2013, 10:31:30 AM
so i bought a bottle of niacin... what's the normal amount for a flush? is it preferable to use it on lifting days only or daily? is there value in not taking for period of time?

First time a 500mg tablet was more than enough for me.

Like necrosis said, tolerance builds if you're going for the flush so don't do it every day. Once tolerance builds you can increase that 500mg dose or stop taking it for a few weeks.

Btw, another thing I dislike about it after more reading is that it can cause insulin resistance. I don't know to what extent but I'm already somewhat resistant so I don't wanna make it worse.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Borracho on October 11, 2013, 03:47:38 PM
Forgot to add that taken on an empty stomach the flush will be almost instant. When I take it with food it wasn't as pronounced and would take a lot longer.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: WOOO on October 11, 2013, 06:30:27 PM
gonna try this tomorrow
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Primemuscle on October 11, 2013, 09:41:48 PM
Saw this kid at the gym looking like a lobster so I asked him if he went to the beach...laughs and says no he just took some niacin. Says its a vasodilator, gives me a pill and within 5 minutes I start burning up. Holy shit, I'm feeling like I'm gonna have a heart attack and itching like a crack head. Workout was a bit too uncomfortable to notice an increase in pump...

I'm not the type to take something without reading up on it first but being that its just a b vitamin I said what the hell. So apparently this stuff improves hdl and lowers ldl, helps rid the body of toxins, promotes healthy skin and joint health among other benefits.

There are some formulas that are "flush free" but I'm not sure if some health benefits would be diminished. From my experience I would start off with the lowest dose if you get the regular stuff with the flush cause it can feel quite overwhelming....

It is an allergic reaction. Some people get it and some don't. I take slow niacin every night before I go to bed. I have never had a problem with flushing although my pharmacist warned me that some people just cannot take it.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: WOOO on October 12, 2013, 01:41:25 AM
It is an allergic reaction. Some people get it and some don't. I take slow niacin every night before I go to bed. I have never had a problem with flushing although my pharmacist warned me that some people just cannot take it.


why at night?
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: WOOO on October 15, 2013, 12:07:08 PM
so i took 500mg on an empty stomach... limited effects... mild flushing... I realized that my B complex has 50mg and I take 2 per day so maybe i'm already somewhat immune...

will try 1000mg tomorrow
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Necrosis on October 15, 2013, 12:24:05 PM
so i took 500mg on an empty stomach... limited effects... mild flushing... I realized that my B complex has 50mg and I take 2 per day so maybe i'm already somewhat immune...

will try 1000mg tomorrow

Most B vitamin complex shite has no niacin, but inositol hexoniconate,not the same thing in practice, but ostensibly they are.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Primemuscle on October 15, 2013, 01:56:40 PM
so i took 500mg on an empty stomach... limited effects... mild flushing... I realized that my B complex has 50mg and I take 2 per day so maybe i'm already somewhat immune...

will try 1000mg tomorrow

What's the recommended dosage? Why are you taking it? I take it to lower cholesterol.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: WOOO on October 15, 2013, 01:57:37 PM
Most B vitamin complex shite has no niacin, but inositol hexoniconate,not the same thing in practice, but ostensibly they are.

i take the Kirkland B50 from costco

Ingredients:
Vitamin B1 (Thiamine Hydrochloride) – 50 mg
Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) – 50 mg
Vitamin B3 (Niacinamide) – 50 mg
Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) – 50 mg
Vitamin B12 (Cyanocobalamin) – 50 mcg
Folic Acid – 1 mg
Pantothenic Acid (Calcium Pantothenate) – 50 mg
Biotin – 50 mcg
Inositol – 50 mg
Choline Bitartrate – 50 mg
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Primemuscle on October 15, 2013, 01:58:33 PM

why at night?

No particular reason. I just spit which pills I take, such as vitamins, between morning and night. The niacin ended up on the night schedule.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Necrosis on October 15, 2013, 04:09:37 PM
i take the Kirkland B50 from costco

Ingredients:
Vitamin B1 (Thiamine Hydrochloride) – 50 mg
Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) – 50 mg
Vitamin B3 (Niacinamide) – 50 mg
Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) – 50 mg
Vitamin B12 (Cyanocobalamin) – 50 mcg
Folic Acid – 1 mg
Pantothenic Acid (Calcium Pantothenate) – 50 mg
Biotin – 50 mcg
Inositol – 50 mg
Choline Bitartrate – 50 mg

Ya, it's not niacin, it's niacinamide. Niacinamide has no benefits for cholesterol and acts very different then niacin, it has some benzodiazepine receptor activity that's interesting. Some benefits to OA (joints).

No need to drop it though, it's fine and I think niacinamide is better anyway.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: WOOO on October 15, 2013, 04:34:16 PM
Ya, it's not niacin, it's niacinamide. Niacinamide has no benefits for cholesterol and acts very different then niacin, it has some benzodiazepine receptor activity that's interesting. Some benefits to OA (joints).

No need to drop it though, it's fine and I think niacinamide is better anyway.

interdasting
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Primemuscle on October 15, 2013, 07:32:32 PM
Ya, it's not niacin, it's niacinamide. Niacinamide has no benefits for cholesterol and acts very different then niacin, it has some benzodiazepine receptor activity that's interesting. Some benefits to OA (joints).

No need to drop it though, it's fine and I think niacinamide is better anyway.

Not if you are taking it to keep your cholesterol under control.
Title: Re: Niacin Flush...
Post by: Necrosis on October 16, 2013, 05:33:03 AM
Not if you are taking it to keep your cholesterol under control.

Yes it raises HDL the best. I