When Gh15 talks about all the Pros Drug use, I have a Question for all

[The GodFather]

How the Fuk do you inject such high amounts??I mean FFS if you are putting in over 4grams Where the Fuk does it go and how many Fukin Shots to make up 4-5 grams????FFS

[MisterMagoo]

2 shots of sust250 every other day would be 3-4g of test per week. add in anything else and it's not hard to get up to 7 or so.

the sad part isn't the pros. it's the normal dudes that talk about doing 1.5+ grams of test per week just as a damn base. 

[The GodFather]

On a program some guy had not reached Puberty so the Doc put 600 mg of test pellets under his skin and said that should be enough for 6 Fukin Months.FFS Do the Math on 4000mgs a week for BBs.Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmm

[Rimbaud]

4-5 grams would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-30ml per week (depending on drugs & doseages of said drugs).

[The GodFather]

30ml a Fukin week where do you put 30 Fukin ml??? anything over 2ml in one spot can Fuk you, so how many ml in one shot.It must workout to be like 2 to 3 shots a day.FFS

[stormshadow]

30ml a Fukin week where do you put 30 Fukin ml??? anything over 2ml in one spot can Fuk you, so how many ml in one shot.It must workout to be like 2 to 3 shots a day.FFS

3ml in one spot is not a problem at all.

Quads, glutes, shoulders, biceps, triceps, calves...  Plenty of places to put it.

[tbombz]

How the Fuk do you inject such high amounts??I mean FFS if you are putting in over 4grams Where the Fuk does it go and how many Fukin Shots to make up 4-5 grams????FFS

where do you put it? such a small guy, id imagine you have more of a problem than most.

[Rimbaud]

30ml a Fukin week where do you put 30 Fukin ml??? anything over 2ml in one spot can Fuk you, so how many ml in one shot.It must workout to be like 2 to 3 shots a day.FFS

How so?

[The GodFather]

How so?

                              ABCESS.When it doesn't breakdown.

[Rimbaud]

                              ABCESS.When it doesn't breakdown.

That's not necessarily going to come from over 2ml's. You can get an abcess shooting 0.25ml.

[The GodFather]

guys take more than 2ml in one spot... I've never seen anyone get an abscess from 3-4ml.

                      Fuk 3-4 mls in one spot.That's quite a lump under the skin what gauge needle and length??

[The GodFather]

I Don't know many who could take a 4ml shot of Prop in one spot and not get Fuked up.

[tbombz]

I Don't know many who could take a 4ml shot of Prop in one spot and not get Fuked up.

well prop is generally associated with some next day soreness anyways. i think they were talking about things like test e and deca and eq.

[The GodFather]

Test E is Dirty and Deca over 500mgs will slow ya Dick down and eq is fine upto 500.Most are ok upto 500 once you get into the Grams well ask Mike Matta and Mike Morris and Luke among others who have exited the sport for health reasons.Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[The GodFather]

The "test prop hurts" thing -- I don't buy it. No one I know who's used it complains of it.

Most of those who get soreness, it's because of the solvent used. There's nothing inherently more painful about a propionate ester than a decanoate ester, for example. Just a few more carbon atoms.

The solvent makes the pain. Dissolve test prop in oil, and you don't get sore. Use more glycol, or aqueous solvents, and you get more soreness.

                                           You sound like a Chemist.hMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M

[tbombz]

The "test prop hurts" thing -- I don't buy it. No one I know who's used it complains of it.

Most of those who get soreness, it's because of the solvent used. There's nothing inherently more painful about a propionate ester than a decanoate ester, for example. Just a few more carbon atoms.

The solvent makes the pain. Dissolve test prop in oil, and you don't get sore. Use more glycol, or aqueous solvents, and you get more soreness.

well yeah i think your right, it isnt the hormone itself, but what its made with. i think the prop ester needs more ba or bb to be stable.  idk.

[The GodFather]

Cotton Seed oil is good I hear

[tbombz]

The reason you can get away with a more aqueous solvent is due to the less hydrophobic nature of the molecule itself. There are more hydrophillic portions of the molecule relative to the hydrophobic portions (when compared to an undecanoate ester for example), so the molecule can dissolve actively in oil, or in a propylene glycol type solution. It is somewhat more amphipathic.

With all the active hydroxyl group on the testosterone molecule and the carbonyl group on the first ring, testosterone itself is water soluble (hence, testosterone suspension). Propionate esters are only three carbon atoms long, and at the tail end of one carbon is a carbonyl and a hydroxyl group -- another good hydrophilic group.

In essence, test propionate is amphipathic. Both water and oil loving. Injections using oil-based solvents are generally better tolerated. However, the injection depot takes longer to drain and release the bolus into the bloodstream. This has both positive and negative consequences. Longer draining time extends half-life (either good or bad, depending on desired results), and the less pronounced spike can lead to improved anabolic effect. However, a more fast-acting bolus delivered via water-soluble solvent can quickly spike blood levels, decreasing half-life and body clearance, for those seeking to pass an upcoming test or those who wish to merely clear the bloodstream quickly for aggressive management. Furthermore, when combined with another androgen that binds SHBG, the spike in testosterone delivered via water-based solvent can help impart a strong acute effect. Depends on what you want.

wow dude, nice post.

you know what our talkign about.

ive got a question for you

at what temperateure farenheit does hormones start to be altered/damaged? (testosterone, nandralone, equipoise)

if a vial of gear is left alone for a ocuple of months, then when taken out of storeage, the powder seems to have solidified to the bottom of the vial, can that vial be re heated into a liquid, shaken, and then will it be perfectly fine?

what exactly does benzyl benzoate do?

[benz]

wow dude, nice post.

you know what our talkign about.

ive got a question for you

at what temperateure farenheit does hormones start to be altered/damaged? (testosterone, nandralone, equipoise)

if a vial of gear is left alone for a ocuple of months, then when taken out of storeage, the powder seems to have solidified to the bottom of the vial, can that vial be re heated into a liquid, shaken, and then will it be perfectly fine?

what exactly does benzyl benzoate do?

im surprised such a roids veteran doesnt know what BENZyl benzoate do!

[luvvsuNOT]

The reason you can get away with a more aqueous solvent is due to the less hydrophobic nature of the molecule itself. There are more hydrophillic portions of the molecule relative to the hydrophobic portions (when compared to an undecanoate ester for example), so the molecule can dissolve actively in oil, or in a propylene glycol type solution. It is somewhat more amphipathic.

With all the active hydroxyl group on the testosterone molecule and the carbonyl group on the first ring, testosterone itself is water soluble (hence, testosterone suspension). Propionate esters are only three carbon atoms long, and at the tail end of one carbon is a carbonyl and a hydroxyl group -- another good hydrophilic group.

In essence, test propionate is amphipathic. Both water and oil loving. Injections using oil-based solvents are generally better tolerated. However, the injection depot takes longer to drain and release the bolus into the bloodstream. This has both positive and negative consequences. Longer draining time extends half-life (either good or bad, depending on desired results), and the less pronounced spike can lead to improved anabolic effect. However, a more fast-acting bolus delivered via water-soluble solvent can quickly spike blood levels, decreasing half-life and body clearance, for those seeking to pass an upcoming test or those who wish to merely clear the bloodstream quickly for aggressive management. Furthermore, when combined with another androgen that binds SHBG, the spike in testosterone delivered via water-based solvent can help impart a strong acute effect. Depends on what you want.

Shoots! I was just about to say that. Especially that part about aqueous hydrophobic amphipathic hydroxyl stuff.

[luvvsuNOT]

I can't recall off the top of my head at what temp the molecule is destroyed. I'll have to look that up. I do know, however, that gentle heating of the solution will not destroy the molecule.

I assume you're asking because someone you may know left an amp out, and the testosterone settled out of solution. This isn't uncommon. If you've seen test suspension, you know that testosterone likes to settle.

Gentle heating in a pot with water just below the boiling point (where small bubbles start to form in the water) for a few minutes will ease the testosterone molecule back into suspension. This isn't an invitation to cook it -- just to get it back into suspension so that it can pass through a needle easily.

As for benzyl benzoate, if you find that in your stuff, it may be there as a leftover solvent used in a chemical reaction during manufacturing. Also, it's commonly used as a longer-acting solvent in more aqueous-based deliveries in the drug. For example, benzyl alcohol drains rather quickly from the injection depot, which can leave the drug behind and possibly lead to undesired effects such as delayed blood entry, or even sterile abscesses. The benzyl benzoate stays longer in the depot site, allowing more time for the drug to enter the bloodsteam. This, despite the aqueous nature of the solvents used.

On a funny note, maybe there's benzyl benzoate in your stuff because the guy in the underground lab who made it contaminated the lot with his scabies medicine.

How come people bake Fina at 250-300 degrees for a half an hour. Does that damage the molecule?

[tbombz]

thanks!


all my gear is 5% BA 15%BB .. so i know its got benzyl benzoate..


and with the issue about the testosterone becoming settled, it didnt become just settled, it actually re-solidified into a gel  type of substance. now i assume that this is okay, since some powders, when they get moisture, will become solid...and all you gotta do is melt em down. ( correct me if im wrong).  but id like to know for sure, that the solidification, then re mealting, doesnt damage the hormone.

[luvvsuNOT]

They bake to sterilize. Common in underground labs and bathtub concoctions. Using an autoclave gets the job done -- kills everything. Rather crude, mind you. But, supply is short these days, so I guess folks take whatever they can get. Bad for the UG business if your clients start to develop abscesses and fevers. Death never helps business and brings the heat quick.

Anything above 250 degrees celsius, and you start to get degradation. It's a gradual thing, so it's not like everything gets wrecked at that temp. But it starts to happen. Between 250 and 315 degrees, you're getting an exothermic reaction showing degradation of testosterone. So, beware if you cook.

Human grade laboratory manufactured hormones at an FDA approved facility and prescribed by a doc are the best ways to be safe. Otherwise, you rolls the dice and ya takes your chances.

Water boils at what? 220 degrees? And isn't boiling for 20 minutes suppose to be enough to kill bacteria? So baking at 220 degrees celcius for twenty minutes will sterilize but not degrade the hormone?

BTW, who are you? I mean what do you do? What's a smart guy like you doing on a board like this? I guess sometimes a man needs to do a little intellectual slumming to take the edge off.

[luvvsuNOT]

Water boils at 100 degrees celsius. Baking in an autoclave at 220 celsius will kill all bacteria, and will likely not degrade the hormone.

I come for the humor. I stay for the ownings.

Actually, I meant 220 degrees farenheit. What was I thinking? So 220-240 degrees farenheit is well within the range of "non degradation"

Note to self: After work pull snx profile, review threads, determine psychological and emotional stability.