sharper comparison shots from the supposed top 2 - from team andro

[arce1988]

[Wiggs]

Kai should never do this most muscular.. It makes him look like shit with weak traps and delts.

[OTHstrong]

Kai winning is not enough to cause an uproar, but Heath is the fair winner here. that is how close it is but I use to favor Kai but the more I look at the pictures and watch the video it is apparent that Phil simply has a better flow, so Phil gets the nod from me.

[doriancutlerman]

Awesome comparisons, Papyrus.  Thanks for directing me to this thread.

I would give Phil the MM and BDB, sure enough.  But everything else ... *shakes head*  You've convinced me:  Santa definitely visited "The Gift" early last year.  Kai still looks weird to me, but there's no question that he was a superior bodybuilder in most of those pictures.  I am much more impressed with Heath than most of you good fellas are (no homo ), but against someone like Kai, his structural limitations do stand out like an albino at a NAACP meeting.

If Kai could come in just a bit sharper from the front and bring his abs out a tick more in posts like the FDB, I don't think anyone could deny him the title this year.  And even though I just finished saying that today's pros are all boring as fuck, I'll give Kai credit:  the man at least tries to say something interesting.  In the process, he winds up talking nonsense; still, I guess him positing the significance of belly-button lint is a shitload funnier and more entertaining than you'd ever get out of poor Gutler or Dexter.  (Does anyone remember the ASC in which Arnold took the piss out of Dex for his boring, "Duh, Ise take Muscletech and don't train all dat much" spiel?  Hilarious )

[doriancutlerman]

Kai winning is not enough to cause an uproar, but Heath is the fair winner here. that is how close it is but I use to favor Kai but the more I look at the pictures and watch the video it is apparent that Phil simply has a better flow, so Phil gets the nod from me.

That's a fair point, too.  I know everybody's tired of hearing it after that war between Hulkster and ND, but there is a palpable difference between how physiques look in pics vs. on film (and in person, of course). 

I figure that's why I didn't understand the controversy surrounding the last Olympia; I just watched videos, and Phil did look better in motion.

[OTHstrong]

That's a fair point, too.  I know everybody's tired of hearing it after that war between Hulkster and ND, but there is a palpable difference between how physiques look in pics vs. on film (and in person, of course). 

I figure that's why I didn't understand the controversy surrounding the last Olympia; I just watched videos, and Phil did look better in motion.

Ya, only a live view gives the full story, but video gives almost the full story and pics can be extremely misleading, Phil looks better in video, however live you can see that Kai is clearly bigger but in pics they look the same size, very weird.

[Rami]

two of the nicest guys in bodybuilding, I never thought Phil would become Mr. Olympia when he first made it up the ranks. He makes the same posing as Jay cutler does, even the same most muscular I think that helped him look wider.

[usmcdevildoc]

1. How Kai looks on stage is irrelevant.
2. He is a very poor choice to represent one of bodybuilding's most prestigious titles. The reality is that what
one does and how one carries themselves in life is important in decision making. Fucking a grapefruit on the net, stripping at gay bars/clubs just is NOT what a sport with at best a tenuous reputation needs. (kind of like Miss America having fuck photos in a magazine the same time she is competing). Bodybuilding is not in the position as a sport to accept the potential backlash.
3. Little "Jonny's" Mom ain't gonna tolerate her son looking up to Superhero Kai when she finds out he has "been a meal for some Schmoe" as in G4P, been seen fornicating with a grapefruit, or getting "hard" on stage for group of men. Trust me bros-- had this discussion with SW who was the head judge for the USAs and the "O", and she is female.
4. I personally don't give a shit what he does with his life, but he would be a poor chose for the new face of bodybuilding, just as Ed Conners would be a poor choice to change "the face of bodybuilding"---- What more house guests?
5. Unfortunately Kai is not alone. There are several other pros and non-pros who have managed to fuck themselves up. Who the fuck visits "Live Muscle Show"??   I say get a life and get a fuckin' job and send your gf out into the work force.

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money

[usmcdevildoc]

PS:  Unfortunately Kai could not be a "house guest". I am sure Conners would not have found him Aryan enough!!


DOC
Lift, fuck, make money

[Papper]

This argument about "you had to be there". Don't really buy it.

I may be wrong, but if you know, how could it be sooo unbelievably different to view live from video?

I would rather think that several hundred of people's close review of a set of pictures, where you can dissect a pose in every detail (competitors only hold it for a couple of seconds live) from different angles and video over an extended period of time... would actually outweigh what 9 individuals think on one occasion when they're watching these guys compare for a couple of minutes. Who knows what they are looking at, probably at Phil's arms all the time.

Again I may be wrong about how they judge, but I don't think they review pictures between prejudging and night show.

Add to the point that they have an internal influence on each other as I heard the judges can talk with each other during the competition . And apparently they even meet the competitors off stage and hang out (!) so how wouldn't that influence what they think and what they think they see? Especially in a competition as heavily subjective as bb.

It is common knowledge that accounts in police hearings shows that human memory is not very reliable - at all.

Pics and video can't be that off.

[OTHstrong]

This argument about "you had to be there". Don't really buy it.

I may be wrong, but if you know, how could it be sooo unbelievably different to view live from video?

I would rather think that several hundred of people's close review of a set of pictures, where you can dissect a pose in every detail (competitors only hold it for a couple of seconds live) from different angles and video over an extended period of time... would actually outweigh what 9 individuals think on one occasion when they're watching these guys compare for a couple of minutes. Who knows what they are looking at, probably at Phil's arms all the time.

Again I may be wrong about how they judge, but I don't think they review pictures between prejudging and night show.

Add to the point that they have an internal influence on each other as I heard the judges can talk with each other during the competition . And apparently they even meet the competitors off stage and hang out (!) so how wouldn't that influence what they think and what they think they see? Especially in a competition as heavily subjective as bb.

It is common knowledge that accounts in police hearings shows that human memory is not very reliable - at all.

Pics and video can't be that off.

NO WAY bro, I can show you pics of a guy looking like to 5 Olympia and in the same contest show you a pic from a different angle that indicates this guy wouldn`t even be able to turn pro, no way picture count for nothing in comparison to live or even to a video.

You are right about the judges and them influencing each other, no argument there.

[che]

Phil has the worst (Mr Olympia) FLS ever .

[Papper]

Phil has the worst (Mr Olympia) FLS ever .

Unfortunately he ticks the boxes that are detrimental to a FLS. Lacking in chest, width, lats and stomach does not do him any favors anymore. Quite a long torso too.

[che]

Unfortunately he ticks the boxes that are detrimental to a FLS. Lacking in chest, width, lats and stomach does not do him any favors anymore. Quite a long torso too.

Nah , he just  doesn't know how to hit the pose properly , hand position ,elbows  ......etc.

[OTHstrong]

Unfortunately he ticks the boxes that are detrimental to a FLS. Lacking in chest, width, lats and stomach does not do him any favors anymore. Quite a long torso too.

Ya the points you made are true but he does have amazing quad sweep and still looks like he has good depth so not exactly a bad shot but not a very good one either, at his level that is.

[hp31]

Phil has the worst (Mr Olympia) FLS ever .

While it's not the best, IMO it looked much better at the '11 Olympia

[cart@@n]

One of those guys is also ahead of the line and closer to the camera, making him appear bigger.

[che]

While it's not the best, IMO it looked much better at the '11 Olympia

I agree , and it looked much better when he was an amateur , same structure but different hand position ,elbows  ,leaning back ......etc.

[Papper]

I agree , and it looked much better when he was an amateur , same structure but different hand position ,elbows  ,leaning back ......etc.

Yes I see what you mean about the position. His midsection looked better back then though, flexed or unflexed. And the old pic is taken from a favorable angle from a lower point.

[Radical Plato]

Maybe it's just hard for the Judges to forget the grapefruit incident.

[falco]

Kai has a better tan than Phil

[Parker]

Kai should never do this most muscular.. It makes him look like shit with weak traps and delts.

disappearing delts, almost like he never trained them.

[Papper]

Maybe it's just hard for the Judges to forget the grapefruit incident.

They probably have the incident saved away on a hard drive in their closet so they never forget.

[Parker]

Phil has the worst (Mr Olympia) FLS ever .

like Flex Wheeler.

[old-school-lifter]

kai was the clear winner i think
this was the consensus of everyone in attendance
i think Phils physique is only going to go downhill from here
2013 will mark the year when he starts to not respond so well to the massive dosages of steroids, GH, IGF, insulin, peptides etc and will see his physique worsen
he truly is all drugs whereas Kai had a foundation based on years of lifting heavy iron and is not just all drugs