Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Dos Equis on July 10, 2009, 11:20:33 AM
-
Sure seems like it. Why do they try and convince people there is no God?
Maybe I should have posted these questions in the "Is Atheism a Mental Disorder" thread? :D
-
Sure seems like it. Why do they try and convince people there is no God?
Maybe I should have posted these questions in the "Is Atheism a Mental Disorder" thread? :D
No. It is merely a reaction against the religious fundamentalism that exists in the USA. You find no such phenomenon in places like Denmark or Sweden. What you see is merely the complement to what you yourself believe. Where there is a lack, you will find its lacking counterpart.
-
No. It is merely a reaction against the religious fundamentalism that exists in the USA. You find no such phenomenon in places like Denmark or Sweden. What you see is merely the complement to what you yourself believe. Where there is a lack, you will find its lacking counterpart.
I could have sworn I read comments by you explaining why you post on the religion board, when you hate religion. Didn't you say something to the effect of you wanted to influence people's opinions?
And just we're clear, I wasn't directing this thread to any particular person.
-
Only as much as a-fairyists, a-leprechaunists, a-ghostists, and a-unicornists proselytize.
Imagine living among millions of morons who believe that an invisible sky fairy knocked up some woman who then gave birth to him (i.e. he is his own father), he died and came back to life and now he is a cosmic zombie. They believe they can talk to him, and what's worse, he talks back to them. They have conversations with him in their heads and then want to dictate to the rest of us how our morality should be, and want to turn their views into our laws. One such moron even believed the sky fairy told him to invade a large Middle-eastern country!
It's like living among among morons who believe in ghosts, and believe they are talking to distant ancestors and getting advice from them, and then wanting to dictate that advice as mandatory rules for the rest of us.
Or like living among morons who believe in astrology and want their moronic ideas taught as an alternative to astronomy in schools.
Or like living among morons who believe creationism and want their moronic fairy tale taught as an alternative to astronomy, geology, and biology in schools.
Hope this helps. :P
-
I could have sworn I read comments by you explaining why you post on the religion board, when you hate religion. Didn't you say something to the effect of you wanted to influence people's opinions?
And just we're clear, I wasn't directing this thread to any particular person.
-
Only as much as a-fairyists, a-leprechaunists, a-ghostists, and a-unicornists proselytize.
Imagine living among millions of morons who believe that an invisible sky fairy knocked up some woman who then gave birth to him (i.e. he is his own father), he died and came back to life and now he is a cosmic zombie. They believe they can talk to him, and what's worse, he talks back to them. They have conversations with him in their heads and then want to dictate to the rest of us how our morality should be, and want to turn their views into our laws. One such moron even believed the sky fairy told him to invade a large Middle-eastern country!
It's like living among among morons who believe in ghosts, and believe they are talking to distant ancestors and getting advice from them, and then wanting to dictate that advice as mandatory rules for the rest of us.
Or like living among morons who believe in astrology and want their moronic ideas taught as an alternative to astronomy in schools.
Or like living among morons who believe creationism and want their moronic fairy tale taught as an alternative to astronomy, geology, and biology in schools.
Hope this helps. :P
No. But thank you for sharing. :)
-
Oh no. Not a ten minute clip.
-
Oh no. Not a ten minute clip.
I gave two (possible) reasons why atheists organise themselves.
-
Only as much as a-fairyists, a-leprechaunists, a-ghostists, and a-unicornists proselytize.
Imagine living among millions of morons who believe that an invisible sky fairy knocked up some woman who then gave birth to him (i.e. he is his own father), he died and came back to life and now he is a cosmic zombie. They believe they can talk to him, and what's worse, he talks back to them. They have conversations with him in their heads and then want to dictate to the rest of us how our morality should be, and want to turn their views into our laws. One such moron even believed the sky fairy told him to invade a large Middle-eastern country!
It's like living among among morons who believe in ghosts, and believe they are talking to distant ancestors and getting advice from them, and then wanting to dictate that advice as mandatory rules for the rest of us.
Or like living among morons who believe in astrology and want their moronic ideas taught as an alternative to astronomy in schools.
Or like living among morons who believe creationism and want their moronic fairy tale taught as an alternative to astronomy, geology, and biology in schools.
Hope this helps. :P
dont forget the are the absolute authorities on good or bad what is a sin and what will happen to you and all your loved ones if you dont believe what they say. They tell gays that are going to burn in hell, meanwhile animals exhibit gay behaviour ::)
-
dont forget the are the absolute authorities on good or bad what is a sin and what will happen to you and all your loved ones if you dont believe what they say. They tell gays that are going to burn in hell, meanwhile animals exhibit gay behaviour ::)
You don't really have this problem in Novia Scotia though, do you?
-
I'd say in my experience, atheists do not proselytize. If and when they mention it, it is in context and simply as a matter of the subject coming up. I do know one particular guy who is what one could classify as a "proselytizing atheist". He's almost evangelical in his atheism... so much so that I've pretty much had to tell him he's just as bad if not worse than some of the evangelical types I've encountered. That he needed to keep his religion or his lack of religion to himself 'cause I didn't want to hear about it. I think he's an abnormality and quite different from most or the "typical atheist". I also think his evangelical nature is a knee-jerk survival method for him. He's almost like a drowning man. He lives in Salt Lake City surrounded by people who think & believe in different ways, ...and I think his desire to innapropriately bring up his atheism in every conversation ie: Q: Have you tried this particular flavour of ice cream? It's delicious. I just love a nice bowl of ice cream on a hot day don't you? A: No I haven't tried it. It's made by ABC company. Did you know XYZ company breadmaker founders are atheists? ...and the guy who delivers my newspaper is an atheist too." ...is like a drowning man gasping for air. Problem is... he's sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
btw Deicide, ...you really should train your voice. I could see you making money with it.
-
I'd say in my experience, atheists do not proselytize. If and when they mention it, it is in context and simply as a matter of the subject coming up. I do know one particular guy who is what one could classify as a "proselytizing atheist". He's almost evangelical in his atheism... so much so that I've pretty much had to tell him he's just as bad if not worse than some of the evangelical types I've encountered. That he needed to keep his religion or his lack of religion to himself 'cause I didn't want to hear about it. I think he's an abnormality and quite different from most or the "typical atheist". I also think his evangelical nature is a knee-jerk survival method for him. He's almost like a drowning man. He lives in Salt Lake City surrounded by people who think & believe in different ways, ...and I think his desire to innapropriately bring up his atheism in every conversation ie: Q: Have you tried this particular flavour of ice cream? It's delicious. I just love a nice bowl of ice cream on a hot day don't you? A: No I haven't tried it. It's made by ABC company. Did you know XYZ company breadmaker founders are atheists? ...and the guy who delivers my newspaper is an atheist too." ...is like a drowning man gasping for air. Problem is... he's sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
btw Deicide, ...you really should train your voice. I could see you making money with it.
I have never heard that in real life but since I started making youtubes a bunch of people have told me I should. Well, first do this damned thesis and then see.
I would have no idea how to begin something like that anyway... ???
-
Sure seems like it. Why do they try and convince people there is no God?
Maybe I should have posted these questions in the "Is Atheism a Mental Disorder" thread? :D
I would say some atheists do.
Why do they try to convince people there is no god? Much for the same reason you might try and convince people there is a god. Its hard for some people to listen, witness, interact etc. with something that they believe isn't true without speaking up about it.
-
I gave two (possible) reasons why atheists organise themselves.
No thanks. CliffsNotes.
-
I would say some atheists do.
Why do they try to convince people there is no god? Much for the same reason you might try and convince people there is a god. Its hard for some people to listen, witness, interact etc. with something that they believe isn't true without speaking up about it.
Not me. Aside from the banter on this board, I don't ever try and convince people that God exists.
But I do find it inconsistent and curious that many atheists aren't simply content to believe in nothing. They have the same desire as a lot of "religious" people to share their belief in nothing.
-
I would say some atheists do.
Why do they try to convince people there is no god? Much for the same reason you might try and convince people there is a god. Its hard for some people to listen, witness, interact etc. with something that they believe isn't true without speaking up about it.
Speaking up when something is spoken that contradicts your beliefs is one thing, and it's something that occurs within the context of regular conversation. Seeking people out to determine their beliefs, specifically targetting those who you suspect may NOT believe as you do, ...and then proceeding with unsolicited statements about your beliefs, ...then trying to convince them otherwise, or engage them in a conversation to which they want no part, is a completely different thing. I don't believe atheists do that as a general rule. The same cannot be said about others though. Infact, ...some groups make it a mandatory coming of age requiring you to do just that for a few years.
I think the difference is some radicals immerse themselves so fully in the culture of their belief that they don't understand what they're doing. And there are so many of them EVERYWHERE that people have come to accept their extremism as a normal part of life, ...but there is nothing normal about it.
Their choice of suppliers is often dictated by this. Little things like personal stationary, or sending birthday cards for instance. There are plenty of online greeting card companies, ...but some people immerse themselves so deeply that even their personal stationary or post-it notes have to include some verse to whatever personal religious belief they have. If you have to leave a note on the door for FedEx or UPS, ...is it necessary to including verses from your particular religion? If you want to wish someone a happy birthday, ...is it necessary to include a verse from your particular religion? When was the last time any of us got a greeting card from "an atheist Greeting card comany?" or bought a book on car maintenance because it came from a religious publishing company as opposed to a book on car maintenance published by someone else? It's as if they think because if has a particular religions stamp of approval on it, ...the instructions for doing oil changes will be more complete, more holy, and more sanctified by their god, ...or that their oil will stay purer longer. What do they think the other maintenance manual might include... illicit subliminal unholy messages? ...Or is that they're concerned that the manual does not instruct them to say a prayer for every ounce of oil they pour into the motor? ::)
I sometimes wonder how some of these same people would respond if they were sent a greeting card with verses from the Quran... or with printed philosophy that came from a religion completely different from their own.
-
Not me. Aside from the banter on this board, I don't ever try and convince people that God exists.
But I do find it inconsistent and curious that many atheists aren't simply content to believe in nothing. They have the same desire as a lot of "religious" people to share their belief in nothing.
Contributors on these boards excepted for obvious reasons, ...I've only found that in real life from one atheist,
...but I wish I had a nickle for each time I've encountered it in real life by evangelical theists.
My bank account would make Rockefeller look like a pauper. ;D
-
or bought a book on car maintenance because it came from a religious publishing company as opposed to a book on car maintenance published by someone else? It's as if they think because if has a particular religions stamp of approval on it, ...the instructions for doing oil changes will be more complete, more holy, and more sanctified by their god, ...or that their oil will stay purer longer. What do they think the other maintenance manual might include... illicit subliminal unholy messages? ...Or is that they're concerned that the manual does not instruct them to say a prayer for every ounce of oil they pour into the motor? ::)
I think believers want to think that other believers will treat them right and maybe want to help support their businesses...it's not that they think their oil would stay purer longer or pray for each ounce of oil ;D
Of course people are fallible and some are outright scam artists....I called a pest control once for cicada killers and they had a "Jesus fish" on their ad in the phone book. When the kid arrived he was afraid of the cicada killers and just really didn't know what he was doing. Then he tried to charge me $300 bucks for a month or so guarantee when he hadn't even found all the holes. I told him no way. I will never call them again.
-
I would have no idea how to begin something like that anyway... ???
I have a relative (haven't talked to him in years though) that had a studio and people would come and do voice over stuff and they'd get paid a lot (from a 3rd company) for just reading stuff and having their voice recorded. Not sure if it's still that lucrative but you could research it. I was at their house once and some girl came over and did a "Press one for customer service....blah blah blah..." Not sure how many sessions it covered but her check was for over $1000 for what seemed like minutes of "work."
-
Not me. Aside from the banter on this board, I don't ever try and convince people that God exists.
But I do find it inconsistent and curious that many atheists aren't simply content to believe in nothing. They have the same desire as a lot of "religious" people to share their belief in nothing.
I have never known an atheist in person who solicited their beliefs on anyone. However, I have known far too many over zealous religious people soliciting their beliefs on anyone and everyone.
-
Speaking up when something is spoken that contradicts your beliefs is one thing, and it's something that occurs within the context of regular conversation. Seeking people out to determine their beliefs, specifically targetting those who you suspect may NOT believe as you do, ...and then proceeding with unsolicited statements about your beliefs, ...then trying to convince them otherwise, or engage them in a conversation to which they want no part, is a completely different thing. I don't believe atheists do that as a general rule. The same cannot be said about others though. Infact, ...some groups make it a mandatory coming of age requiring you to do just that for a few years.
I think the difference is some radicals immerse themselves so fully in the culture of their belief that they don't understand what they're doing. And there are so many of them EVERYWHERE that people have come to accept their extremism as a normal part of life, ...but there is nothing normal about it.
Their choice of suppliers is often dictated by this. Little things like personal stationary, or sending birthday cards for instance. There are plenty of online greeting card companies, ...but some people immerse themselves so deeply that even their personal stationary or post-it notes have to include some verse to whatever personal religious belief they have. If you have to leave a note on the door for FedEx or UPS, ...is it necessary to including verses from your particular religion? If you want to wish someone a happy birthday, ...is it necessary to include a verse from your particular religion? When was the last time any of us got a greeting card from "an atheist Greeting card comany?" or bought a book on car maintenance because it came from a religious publishing company as opposed to a book on car maintenance published by someone else? It's as if they think because if has a particular religions stamp of approval on it, ...the instructions for doing oil changes will be more complete, more holy, and more sanctified by their god, ...or that their oil will stay purer longer. What do they think the other maintenance manual might include... illicit subliminal unholy messages? ...Or is that they're concerned that the manual does not instruct them to say a prayer for every ounce of oil they pour into the motor? ::)
I sometimes wonder how some of these same people would respond if they were sent a greeting card with verses from the Quran... or with printed philosophy that came from a religion completely different from their own.
Yeah, i got a religious chain text message the other day from a reformed, rehabilitated x-con person i know. ::)
If religion keeps them out of prison then good.
-
I have never known an atheist in person who solicited their beliefs on anyone. However, I have known far too many over zealous religious people soliciting their beliefs on anyone and everyone.
I have read repeated attempts on this board designed to convince people that God doesn't exist. I've spoken with some in real life who do the same.
I'm not comparing atheists with religious people, because it's pretty clear religious folks do far more proselytizing, if for no other reason than there are so many religious people, and atheists makes up a tiny percentage of the population.
I was focused more on the atheists who do proselytize and trying to understand why.
Also, they are the only group I can think of that organize around a non-belief in something. Very odd.
-
I have read repeated attempts on this board designed to convince people that God doesn't exist. I've spoken with some in real life who do the same.
I'm not comparing atheists with religious people, because it's pretty clear religious folks do far more proselytizing, if for no other reason than there are so many religious people, and atheists makes up a tiny percentage of the population.
I was focused more on the atheists who do proselytize and trying to understand why.
Also, they are the only group I can think of that organize around a non-belief in something. Very odd.
Yeah, but you can't count this board for anything because of what it is: "Religious debate"
Interesting, I met a friend of my son's last week who is an atheist, she's 18, and her parents are pastors.
I would imagine an atheist sees someone who believes in God no different than and adult who believes in Santa Claus and center their life around them. Because of that, it's hard for them not to say anything.
-
Yeah, but you can't count this board for anything because of what it is: "Religious debate"
Interesting, I met a friend of my son's last week who is an atheist, she's 18, and her parents are pastors.
I would imagine an atheist sees someone who believes in God no different than and adult who believes in Santa Claus and center their life around them. Because of that, it's hard for them not to say anything.
Wow. :o The parents must be having a hard time with that one. Did you talk to the her about why she became an atheist?
There likely isn't a measurable number of adults who believe in Santa Claus. There really isn't a good parallel IMO. For example, I don't believe in Pele or any of the other Hawaiian gods, and I have no trouble not talking about Pele, criticizing her, forming anti-Pele groups, etc.
I'm not sure what most atheists think, but the trends I see are anger, sarcasm, ridicule, etc. I started thumbing through a book that's on my reading list about an atheist who became a Christian and it does have some insight on this. I'll post some excerpts when I get around to reading the book.
-
I've never had an atheist come to my door to proselytize?
I've never seen the 24/7 atheist channel on TV begging for donations so their leaders can live in mansion and fly around in private jets.
I've never seen an atheist meeting place on every other corner in ever town in America
I've never received letters and cards in the mail urging me to join an atheist group or send a donation
etc...
-
Wow. :o The parents must be having a hard time with that one. Did you talk to the her about why she became an atheist?
There likely isn't a measurable number of adults who believe in Santa Claus. There really isn't a good parallel IMO. For example, I don't believe in Pele or any of the other Hawaiian gods, and I have no trouble not talking about Pele, criticizing her, forming anti-Pele groups, etc.
I'm not sure what most atheists think, but the trends I see are anger, sarcasm, ridicule, etc. I started thumbing through a book that's on my reading list about an atheist who became a Christian and it does have some insight on this. I'll post some excerpts when I get around to reading the book.
I haven't talked to her about it yet, because i just met her. My son told me about her beliefs. I can only imagine what the parents must feel like.
But, check this out. My son's best "girl" friend got in an car accident last week. She was backing out of her drive way and was hit by a car going 65 mph in a residential neighborhood. I guess her face/head hit the window and she has a scar from her forehead down to her cheek. The parents have seen this as a sign from God that she needs to change her life. (She'll be 18 in 30 days) So they comprised a list of people she's no longer allowed to be friends with and they read her diary. Now, just so you know, these are a pretty good group of kids. They are not pots heads, they don't get in trouble with the law, etc.
This is how sometimes, people can be somewhat ignorant and do the wrong thing with good intentions because of religion.
Anti Pele' Groups? HAHAHA Yeah that would cause some serious eruptions! However it's not whether there is a measurable number of people who believe in Santa Claus, it's the that issue is similar in terms of how an atheist perceives others when it comes to beliefs. I think if you met someone who believed in Santa claus and center their life around Saint Nick and his teachings and activities each year you may feel quite compelled to say something when they started witnessing to you or talked about Rudy and the path of light.
-
I haven't talked to her about it yet, because i just met her. My son told me about her beliefs. I can only imagine what the parents must feel like.
But, check this out. My son's best "girl" friend got in an car accident last week. She was backing out of her drive way and was hit by a car going 65 mph in a residential neighborhood. I guess her face/head hit the window and she has a scar from her forehead down to her cheek. The parents have seen this as a sign from God that she needs to change her life. (She'll be 18 in 30 days) So they comprised a list of people she's no longer allowed to be friends with and they read her diary. Now, just so you know, these are a pretty good group of kids. They are not pots heads, they don't get in trouble with the law, etc.
This is how sometimes, people can be somewhat ignorant and do the wrong thing with good intentions because of religion.
Anti Pele' Groups? HAHAHA Yeah that would cause some serious eruptions! However it's not whether there is a measurable number of people who believe in Santa Claus, it's the that issue is similar in terms of how an atheist perceives others when it comes to beliefs. I think if you met someone who believed in Santa claus and center their life around Saint Nick and his teachings and activities each year you may feel quite compelled to say something when they started witnessing to you or talked about Rudy and the path of light.
that's just fucked up. their kid is going to be dealing with huge emotional issues from being injured/scarred and they are probably going to make her even more miserable with their bizarre reaction. I truly feel sorry for that kid. I would call the parents reaction crazy (again - my opinion only). Maybe they were crazy already or maybe their religious beliefs have made them crazy but either way .....same conclusion
-
that's just fucked up. their kid is going to be dealing with huge emotional issues from being injured/scarred and they are probably going to make her even more miserable with their bizarre reaction. I truly feel sorry for that kid. I would call the parents reaction crazy (again - my opinion only). Maybe they were crazy already or maybe their religious beliefs have made them crazy but either way .....same conclusion
IMO, anyone who doesn't see how damaging reading a 17-year girl's diary is are certified idiots. Religion was only the trigger for this.
-
I've never had an atheist come to my door to proselytize?
They often prefer you come to them in universities.
I've never seen the 24/7 atheist channel on TV begging for donations so their leaders can live in mansion and fly around in private jets.
Of course not! The ratings are terrible. Some of these pastors run schools (a few are chancellors of colleges), small TV networks, various humanitarian missions, etc. How do you expect them to travel, by rickshaw?
I've never seen an atheist meeting place on every other corner in ever town in America
Simple lack of popularity, although California has a handful of "humanist centers", as was mentioned sometime ago. It's where some atheists go to assemble as a counter to their neighbors going to church on Sunday.
I've never received letters and cards in the mail urging me to join an atheist group or send a donation
etc...
Not yet!! But have you seen some of these atheist sites? Some of them have asked for a little coin from time to time.
;D
-
They often prefer you come to them in universities.
Of course not! The ratings are terrible. Some of these pastors run schools (a few are chancellors of colleges), small TV networks, various humanitarian missions, etc. How do you expect them to travel, by rickshaw?
Simple lack of popularity, although California has a handful of "humanist centers", as was mentioned sometime ago. It's where some atheists go to assemble as a counter to their neighbors going to church on Sunday.
Not yet!! But have you seen some of these atheist sites? Some of them have asked for a little coin from time to time.
;D
you seem paranoid
-
you seem paranoid
Hardly!!
The point, which you seem to have missed, is that all those things that you claim to have "never seen" are indeed there, with regards to atheists. The scale is simply much smaller than that of their Christian counterparts.
-
Hardly!!
The point, which you seem to have missed, is that all those things that you claim to have "never seen" are indeed there, with regards to atheists. The scale is simply much smaller than that of their Christian counterparts.
got a few minutes so let's just take one thing at a time.
I don't understand what you mean by this statement. Can you explain it further:
maybe so much smaller that no one can see them except you?
I've only got a few minutes so let's just take one thing at a time.
I don't know what you mean by this statement.
Can you expand on it a bit?
Thanks
They often prefer you come to them in universities.
-
They often prefer you come to them in universities.
Not exactly going door to door handing out pamphlets.
They are being very non-solicitous in this case.
-
I've never had an atheist come to my door to proselytize?
I've never seen the 24/7 atheist channel on TV begging for donations so their leaders can live in mansion and fly around in private jets.
I've never seen an atheist meeting place on every other corner in ever town in America
I've never received letters and cards in the mail urging me to join an atheist group or send a donation
etc...
good post
-
maybe so much smaller that no one can see them except you?
I've only got a few minutes so let's just take one thing at a time.
I don't know what you mean by this statement.
Can you expand on it a bit?
Thanks
I already did. For instance, you claimed that you don't see an atheist meeting place on every corner. Indeed there are not. However, as mentioned earlier, places like California have "humanist centers" where atheists go to take their kids and to meet with other atheists to discuss their "beliefs" (or whatever), to counter their Christian neighbors who go to church every Sunday.
In fact, I've mentioned several times, as there was a Time magazine article done on it (I called them the "un-churches). It's been discussed here before; Deicide thinks such places are stupid.
Recap:
On Sunday mornings, most parents who don't believe in the Christian God, or any god at all, are probably making brunch or cheering at their kids' soccer game, or running errands or, with luck, sleeping in. Without religion, there's no need for church, right?
Maybe. But some nonbelievers are beginning to think they might need something for their children. "When you have kids," says Julie Willey, a design engineer, "you start to notice that your co-workers or friends have church groups to help teach their kids values and to be able to lean on." So every week, Willey, who was raised Buddhist and says she has never believed in God, and her husband pack their four kids into their blue minivan and head to the Humanist Community Center in Palo Alto, Calif., for atheist Sunday school.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html)
A more recent article on this same place:
'We Make Our Own Heaven'
Atheist Minority Finds Spiritual Home in Palo Alto
It is hard not to notice the bells that ring on Sunday morning. But at churches, synagogues and mosques around the globe there are some for whom that religion is lost. This group is part of America's atheist minority.
Non-believers find humanist community in Palo Alto.While Christians, Muslims and Jews can celebrate their beliefs, and fellowship in the company of others in churches, mosques and synagogues, where can non-believers find a spiritual home?
One answer lies in Palo Alto, Calif., if you spot the sign by the roadside. It's at the Humanist Community, where for a few hours every Sunday the humanists, as they call themselves, come together in what one might call a congregation. It even has its own Sunday school.
Without church bells, but with music, this group of humanists believe in a lot of things – but God isn't one of them.....
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaithMatters/story?id=4539323&page=1 (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaithMatters/story?id=4539323&page=1)
I didn't make up this place, Straw, and obviously I'm not the only one who can see it. Now, if you're done with your denials, perhaps the discussion can pick up.
-
I already did. For instance, you claimed that you don't see an atheist meeting place on every corner. Indeed there are not. However, as mentioned earlier, places like California have "humanist centers" where atheists go to take their kids and to meet with other atheists to discuss their "beliefs" (or whatever), to counter their Christian neighbors who go to church every Sunday.
In fact, I've mentioned several times, as there was a Time magazine article done on it (I called them the "un-churches). It's been discussed here before; Deicide thinks such places are stupid.
Recap:
On Sunday mornings, most parents who don't believe in the Christian God, or any god at all, are probably making brunch or cheering at their kids' soccer game, or running errands or, with luck, sleeping in. Without religion, there's no need for church, right?
Maybe. But some nonbelievers are beginning to think they might need something for their children. "When you have kids," says Julie Willey, a design engineer, "you start to notice that your co-workers or friends have church groups to help teach their kids values and to be able to lean on." So every week, Willey, who was raised Buddhist and says she has never believed in God, and her husband pack their four kids into their blue minivan and head to the Humanist Community Center in Palo Alto, Calif., for atheist Sunday school.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html)
I didn't make up this place, Straw, and obviously I'm not the only one who can see it. Now, if you're done with your denials, perhaps the discussion can pick up.
I'm not aware of any of this stuff but more importantly, if it exists, why do you have a problem with people discussing their beliefs?
Islam doesn't agree with your beliefs, nor do Hindu's, Buddhist, etc..
-
Not exactly going door to door handing out pamphlets.
They are being very non-solicitous in this case.
Didn't Beach Bum (or somebody) put up a thread about atheist groups, putting ads on the sides of buses (with their websites being displayed)?
Then, there's the recent display from last Christmas, particularly in Washington state and those ads being shown (with a girl in a Santa suit), to the tune "There is no God. So be good for goodness sake!", or something along those lines.
Non-soliticious? I beg to differ.
-
I'm not aware of any of this stuff but more importantly, if it exists, why do you have a problem with people discussing their beliefs?
You are aware of it now....AND you were aware of it, when it was discussed last time (as you were posting comments about the situation).
It appears you simply have acute memory loss. ;D
Plus, I never said I necessarily had a problem with people discussing their beliefs. The point, which you missed once again, is that your claim about not seeing atheists do thus-and-so, as opposed to their Christian counterparts, is categorically false.
-
You are aware of it now....AND you were aware of it, when it was discussed last time (as you were posting comments about the situation).
It appears you simply have acute memory loss. ;D
Plus, I never said I necessarily had a problem with people discussing their beliefs. The point, which you missed once again, is that your claim about not seeing atheists do thus-and-so, as opposed to their Christian counterparts, is categorically false.
I'm aware of your beliefs too and I don't give a shit
IMO - anyone can believe whatever they want as long as they drive carefully and put their weights away
why are you so worked up about one specific group (so small that only you can see it) and what you think they "believe"
-
Didn't Beach Bum (or somebody) put up a thread about atheist groups, putting ads on the sides of buses (with their websites being displayed)?
Then, there's the recent display from last Christmas, particularly in Washington state and those ads being shown (with a girl in a Santa suit), to the tune "There is no God. So be good for goodness sake!", or something along those lines.
Non-soliticious? I beg to differ.
Based on your comment about universities, it is in fact non-solicitous. Further more, the shear scale of religious solicitation dwarfs anything Atheism has done to "in their mind derail lunacy". There is no comparison.
These isolated incidences you mention aside, I do live in california and have never seen or been solicited by anything promoting atheism. Ever.
-
Based on your comment about universities, it is in fact non-solicitous. Further more, the shear scale of religious solicitation dwarfs anything Atheism has done to "in their mind derail lunacy". There is no comparison.
Did you not just read what I said earlier, "The scale is simply much smaller than that of their Christian counterparts."
These isolated incidences you mention aside, I do live in california and have never seen or been solicited by anything promoting atheism. Ever.
California is a rather large state, last time I checked. Of course, your having not seen doesn't equate to such not happening, albeit (as mentioned earlier) on a much smaller scale.
-
Did you not just read what I said earlier, "The scale is simply much smaller than that of their Christian counterparts."
I read that. But, still, no comparison.
California is a rather large state, last time I checked. Of course, your having not seen doesn't equate to such not happening, albeit (as mentioned earlier) on a much smaller scale.
In 30+ years?
Anyone that does are probably converts who used to do it with religion :D
-
I read that. But, still, no comparison.
In 30+ years?
Anyone that does are probably converts who used to do it with religion :D
The question of this thread was, "Do Atheists Proselytize?". The answer appears to be "Yes, they do."
Whether that is done to the same scale and degree as Christian proselytizing or not makes no difference.
-
The question of this thread was, "Do Atheists Proselytize?". The answer appears to be "Yes, they do."
Whether that is done to the same scale and degree as Christian proselytizing or not makes no difference.
Sure it does because the degree defines answer. There are very few atheists that actively solicit there beliefs. To say Atheists proselytize is like asking are Christians thieves. Which by saying yes is the same thing as saying yes to atheists proselytizing.
To classify atheists as active proselytizers is inaccurate. "Are there atheists that proselytize?" yes. To say christians proselytize is far more accurate then saying Atheist do.
-
Only as much as a-fairyists, a-leprechaunists, a-ghostists, and a-unicornists proselytize.
Imagine living among millions of morons who believe that an invisible sky fairy knocked up some woman who then gave birth to him (i.e. he is his own father), he died and came back to life and now he is a cosmic zombie. They believe they can talk to him, and what's worse, he talks back to them. They have conversations with him in their heads and then want to dictate to the rest of us how our morality should be, and want to turn their views into our laws. One such moron even believed the sky fairy told him to invade a large Middle-eastern country!
It's like living among among morons who believe in ghosts, and believe they are talking to distant ancestors and getting advice from them, and then wanting to dictate that advice as mandatory rules for the rest of us.
Or like living among morons who believe in astrology and want their moronic ideas taught as an alternative to astronomy in schools.
Or like living among morons who believe creationism and want their moronic fairy tale taught as an alternative to astronomy, geology, and biology in schools.
Hope this helps. :P
;D
-
Sure it does because the degree defines answer. There are very few atheists that actively solicit there beliefs. To say Atheists proselytize is like asking are Christians thieves. Which by saying yes is the same thing as saying yes to atheists proselytizing.
To classify atheists as active proselytizers is inaccurate. "Are there atheists that proselytize?" yes. To say christians proselytize is far more accurate then saying Atheist do.
spot on.
-
I already did. For instance, you claimed that you don't see an atheist meeting place on every corner. Indeed there are not. However, as mentioned earlier, places like California have "humanist centers" where atheists go to take their kids and to meet with other atheists to discuss their "beliefs" (or whatever), to counter their Christian neighbors who go to church every Sunday.
In fact, I've mentioned several times, as there was a Time magazine article done on it (I called them the "un-churches). It's been discussed here before; Deicide thinks such places are stupid.
Recap:
On Sunday mornings, most parents who don't believe in the Christian God, or any god at all, are probably making brunch or cheering at their kids' soccer game, or running errands or, with luck, sleeping in. Without religion, there's no need for church, right?
Maybe. But some nonbelievers are beginning to think they might need something for their children. "When you have kids," says Julie Willey, a design engineer, "you start to notice that your co-workers or friends have church groups to help teach their kids values and to be able to lean on." So every week, Willey, who was raised Buddhist and says she has never believed in God, and her husband pack their four kids into their blue minivan and head to the Humanist Community Center in Palo Alto, Calif., for atheist Sunday school.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686828,00.html)
A more recent article on this same place:
'We Make Our Own Heaven'
Atheist Minority Finds Spiritual Home in Palo Alto
It is hard not to notice the bells that ring on Sunday morning. But at churches, synagogues and mosques around the globe there are some for whom that religion is lost. This group is part of America's atheist minority.
Non-believers find humanist community in Palo Alto.While Christians, Muslims and Jews can celebrate their beliefs, and fellowship in the company of others in churches, mosques and synagogues, where can non-believers find a spiritual home?
One answer lies in Palo Alto, Calif., if you spot the sign by the roadside. It's at the Humanist Community, where for a few hours every Sunday the humanists, as they call themselves, come together in what one might call a congregation. It even has its own Sunday school.
Without church bells, but with music, this group of humanists believe in a lot of things – but God isn't one of them.....
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaithMatters/story?id=4539323&page=1 (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/FaithMatters/story?id=4539323&page=1)
I didn't make up this place, Straw, and obviously I'm not the only one who can see it. Now, if you're done with your denials, perhaps the discussion can pick up.
McWay - you've listed one example of one group in a very progressive city and jut the fact that they get together is NOT Proselytizing.
-----------------------------
Main Entry: pros·e·ly·tize
Pronunciation: \ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtīz\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): pros·e·ly·tized; pros·e·ly·tiz·ing
Date: 1679
intransitive verb
1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive verb
: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause
----------------------------
I've lived in the bay area ~ 25 years and I go to Palo Alto all the time and I've never heard or seen this group so they're not doing a very good job recruiting people to their belief system.
News Flash - atheist/agnostics/non-christians do exist but they don't appear to do much if any "proselytizing. Christians on the other hand go all over the planet trying to spread the "good news" that from the moment you're born you're condemned to an eternity of suffering unless you accept JC as your personal saviour.
Frankly, I wish atheist would actually proselytize. The human race needs something to counter-balance to the "mind virus" of christianity that is swarming the planet
-
McWay - you've listed one example of one group in a very progressive city and jut the fact that they get together is NOT Proselytizing.
-----------------------------
Main Entry: pros·e·ly·tize
Pronunciation: \ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtīz\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): pros·e·ly·tized; pros·e·ly·tiz·ing
Date: 1679
intransitive verb
1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive verb
: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause
----------------------------
I've lived in the bay area ~ 25 years and I go to Palo Alto all the time and I've never heard or seen this group so they're not doing a very good job recruiting people to their belief system.
News Flash - atheist/agnostics/non-christians do exist but they don't appear to do much if any "proselytizing. Christians on the other hand go all over the planet trying to spread the "good news" that from the moment you're born you're condemned to an eternity of suffering unless you accept JC as your personal saviour.
News Flash!!! The Palo Alto humanist center was used to counter your claim that supposedly you'd never heard of atheists getting together (no they're not on every other corner; their numbers aren't big enough).
As for the proselytizing, you conveniently forget the other examples I mentioned sometime ago, namely the advertisements on buses, and the ads done at Christmas time (most recently, last year), as well as the incident in Washington state.
Why are atheist groups running these ads, along with their websites, if they are not looking to INCREASE their numbers?
Frankly, I wish atheist would actually proselytize. The human race needs something to counter-balance to the "mind virus" of christianity that is swarming the planet
For what purpose (notwithstanding the rather ridiculous assertion of Christianity being a "mind virus)?
I asked Deicide that on one of his threads. What is the end-goal for atheists? What is this grandiose vision they have for a country or a planet that they so passionately feel CANNOT be accomplished, as long as the majority of people on Earth believe that there's a God?
-
News Flash!!! The Palo Alto humanist center was used to counter your claim that supposedly you'd never heard of atheists getting together (no they're not on every other corner; their numbers aren't big enough).
As for the proselytizing, you conveniently forget the other examples I mentioned sometime ago, namely the advertisements on buses, and the ads done at Christmas time (most recently, last year), as well as the incident in Washington state.
Why are atheist groups running these ads, along with their websites, if they are not looking to INCREASE their numbers?
paranoid much?
who cares if there numbers are increasing.....what's it to you?
Here's a list of the "places of worship in Palo Alto" : http://www.paloaltoonline.com/cgi/pao_search_fab.cgi?Section=resources&Category=places%20to%20worship
You'll not doubt find comfort (unless you're paranoid) in the fact the vast majority are selling the Jesus Story
-
paranoid much?
who cares if there numbers are increasing.....what's it to you?
Smoke crack much?? The question at hand was whether or not atheists proselytize.
If your attitude is "who cares", why do you keep flapping your lips, claiming that atheists DO NOT do such?
Someone with a "who cares" attitude wouldn't be chirping about how they wish atheists would proselytize to counter the so-called "mind virus" of Christianity.
Make up your mind here.
-
paranoid much?
who cares if there numbers are increasing.....what's it to you?
Here's a list of the "places of worship in Palo Alto" : http://www.paloaltoonline.com/cgi/pao_search_fab.cgi?Section=resources&Category=places%20to%20worship
You'll not doubt find comfort (unless you're paranoid) in the fact the vast majority are selling the Jesus Story
the way Mcway addresses people is anything but Christian like.His post's are filled with hate,sarcasm,ridicule,and flat out name calling.your just spinning your wheels with these type's straw.
-
Smoke crack much?? The question at hand was whether or not atheists proselytize.
If your attitude is "who cares", why do you keep flapping your lips, claiming that atheists DO NOT do such?
Someone with a "who cares" attitude wouldn't be chirping about how they wish atheists would proselytize to counter the so-called "mind virus" of Christianity.
Make up your mind here.
you say they do and I guess if you can find one atheist somewhere on the planet promoting his beliefs then you feel justified.
A few posters on a bus or an ad here and there (and the one you mentioned like a girl in a Santa suit sound more like a joke) is not prostelytizing by any meaningful measure of the definition. A group of people meeting at a humanist center is not prostelytizing unless they leave that building and start coming to your door to push their belief and/or try to CONVERT you to their beliefs. You just seem to want to believe it in spite of the glaring lack of evidence so go right ahead. It makes no difference to me.
Personally, I wish they would do it more or at least to a level where I could actually see it.
-
the way Mcway addresses people is anything but Christian like.His post's are filled with hate,sarcasm,ridicule,and flat out name calling.your just spinning your wheels with these type's straw.
yeah - I know you're right.
He really seems scared shitless by anyone who doesn't agree with him and perceives "threats" from everyone who doesn't share his beliefs
-
I haven't talked to her about it yet, because i just met her. My son told me about her beliefs. I can only imagine what the parents must feel like.
But, check this out. My son's best "girl" friend got in an car accident last week. She was backing out of her drive way and was hit by a car going 65 mph in a residential neighborhood. I guess her face/head hit the window and she has a scar from her forehead down to her cheek. The parents have seen this as a sign from God that she needs to change her life. (She'll be 18 in 30 days) So they comprised a list of people she's no longer allowed to be friends with and they read her diary. Now, just so you know, these are a pretty good group of kids. They are not pots heads, they don't get in trouble with the law, etc.
This is how sometimes, people can be somewhat ignorant and do the wrong thing with good intentions because of religion.
Anti Pele' Groups? HAHAHA Yeah that would cause some serious eruptions! However it's not whether there is a measurable number of people who believe in Santa Claus, it's the that issue is similar in terms of how an atheist perceives others when it comes to beliefs. I think if you met someone who believed in Santa claus and center their life around Saint Nick and his teachings and activities each year you may feel quite compelled to say something when they started witnessing to you or talked about Rudy and the path of light.
Sorry to hear about your son's girlfriend. Hope she's O.K. Sounds like the parents overreacted, but you never know what's going on behind closed doors.
I've never met anyone who centered their life around Santa Claus and probably never will. That's not realistic.
-
the way Mcway addresses people is anything but Christian like.His post's are filled with hate,sarcasm,ridicule,and flat out name calling.your just spinning your wheels with these type's straw.
::) Waaaaa! All McWay does is punch people right in the mouth when they start making bad arguments, etc.
-
Given that at least some atheists proselytize, my next question is what is their message? With religious groups, the message is about hope, love, happiness, etc. What is the message of the proselytizing atheist?
-
Given that at least some atheists proselytize, my next question is what is their message? With religious groups, the message is about hope, love, happiness, etc. What is the message of the proselytizing atheist?
the hope and love part only comes after you are first taught that you're a sinner and you're doomed to an eternity in hell
after that, the next step is that you only have one correct choice and you'd better not fuck it up
-
Sorry to hear about your son's girlfriend. Hope she's O.K. Sounds like the parents overreacted, but you never know what's going on behind closed doors.
I've never met anyone who centered their life around Santa Claus and probably never will. That's not realistic.
Exactly, to an atheist religion isn't realistic.
-
Given that at least some atheists proselytize, my next question is what is their message? With religious groups, the message is about hope, love, happiness, etc. What is the message of the proselytizing atheist?
the simple solution to your first question would be to find an example of an atheist proselytizing and then you can judge for yourself what their message is.
Maybe McWay can tell you the right bus schedule so you can see the poster for yourself
-
the simple solution to your first question would be to find an example of an atheist proselytizing and then you can judge for yourself what their message is.
Maybe McWay can tell you the right bus schedule so you can see the poster for yourself
No need!! In fact, on the link to the ABC article about the Palo Alto humanist center, there's another link to a so-called "Blasphemy Challenge". Now why would atheists be asking people to take this "challenge" and reject their faith?
::) Waaaaa! All McWay does is punch people right in the mouth when they start making bad arguments, etc.
I'd prefer to punch their arguments. No need to attack the messenger; the message will suffice. Of course, L Dawg rarely comes with any such arguments, just his usual one-liner gripes with little substance or point to them.
-
No need!! In fact, on the link to the ABC article about the Palo Alto humanist center, there's another link to a so-called "Blasphemy Challenge". Now why would atheists be asking people to take this "challenge" and reject their faith?
I'd prefer to punch their arguments. No need to attack the messenger; the message will suffice. Of course, L Dawg rarely comes with any such arguments, just his usual one-liner gripes with little substance or point to them.
I haven't seen the link to the Blasphemy Challenge.
I still can't figure out why you find the people in Palo Alto so threatening. Why do you care if they meet or what they teach their children?
What is it about them that makes you so scared?
-
Atheists have a pretty comprehensive website at http://www.atheists.org/
I guess this answers my question about the atheist message. Their proselytizing is much more involved than I thought:
About American Atheists
Since 1963, AMERICAN ATHEISTS has been the premier organization laboring for the civil liberties of Atheists, and the total, absolute separation of government and religion. It was born out of a court case begun in 1959 by the Murray family which challenged prayer recitation in the public schools. That case – Murray v. Curlett – was a landmark in American jurisprudence on behalf of our First Amendment rights. It began:
"Your petitioners are Atheists, and they define their lifestyle as follows. An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth – for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist accepts that he can get no help through prayer, but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An Atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help lead to a life of fulfillment."
Now in its fourth decade, American Atheists is dedicated to working for the civil rights of Atheists, promoting separation of state and church, and providing information about Atheism.
The organization was founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair, the noted Atheist activist, as the result of her successful battle against mandatory school prayer and bible recitation. Over the last thirty years, American Atheists has:
* Fought fervently to defend the Separation of Religion from GovernmentAppeared in all formes of media to defend our positions and criticisms of religion and mythology
* Held Atheist conventions and gatherings throughout the United States, including "Atheist Pride" Marches in state capitals.
* Demonstrated and picketed throughout the country on behalf of Atheist rights and state church separation. The organization has marched to defend the rights of intellectuals such as writer Salman Rushdie, protested the use of government funds to support public religious displays, and conducted the first picket of a Roman Catholic pope in history.
* Published over 120 books about Atheism, criticism of religion, and state/church separation.Published newsletters, magazines and member-alerts.
* Built a broad outreach in cyberspace with mailing lists, an ftp and web site, FaxNet and other projects to keep members and the general public informed.
* Fostered a growing network of Representatives throughout the nation who monitor important First Amendment issues, and work on behalf of the organization in their areas.
* Grown a network of volunteers who perform a variety of important tasks in their community, from placing American Atheist books in libraries to writing letters and publicizing the Atheist perspective.
* Preserved Atheist literature and history in the nation's largest archive of its kind. The library's holdings span over three hundred years of Atheist thought.Provided speakers for colleges, universities, clubs and the news media.
* Granted college scholarships to young atheist activists
http://www.atheists.org/about
-
I haven't seen the link to the Blasphemy Challenge.
I still can't figure out why you find the people in Palo Alto so threatening. Why do you care if they meet or what they teach their children?
What is it about them that makes you so scared?
I don't find them threatening. I find it comical that some of the very people criticizing religion and people of faith are basically mimicking those same people with their own "religion", complete with "doctrine" and "churches", as it were.
As far as this discussion goes, your arguments and questions continue to get more inconsistent and silly by the hour.
You keep flip-flopping. One minute, you don't see an example of atheist proselytizing; then, when one (or several) get pointed out to you, here you come with your feeble "So what? Why are you scared?" routine.
That is made even sillier by the fact that your takes are two-faced on this issue. If you truly have a "who cares?" attitude with regards to people of faith (or lack thereof), you wouldn't be wishing that atheists (or someone) woud proselytize to counter what you coined to be the "mind-virus" of Christianity.
-
Man, you beat me to it, Bum.
I was just about to post what I put on your other thread, in response to some of the same silly claims made by Necrosis.
Tenets? No problem! In fact, some are listed on another thread. But, I'll bring up a couple right here:
1) Heaven is here on Earth
Your petitioners are Atheists, and they define their lifestyle as follows. An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An Atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth – for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist accepts that he can get no help through prayer, but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An Atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help lead to a life of fulfillment." - American Atheists.
This group was founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair, who loved her fellow man so much that she dismissed her son, William Murray, when he became a Christian (and later a minister), calling such a "postnatal abortion".
" I believe we make our own heaven right here, or hell, and I said, I'm going to come back in an afterlife as a leaf on a tree."
Beverly Crowell, congregant, Palo Alto Humanist Community.
BTW, how does someone who doesn't believe in God somehow think she's coming back in an "afterlife" as a leaf (or anything else)?
2) Man is his own salvation.
(From the aforementioned American Atheist blurb): "An Atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help lead to a life of fulfillment"
"We respect science and learning, knowing that only human thought, effort and courage will bring individual freedom and cultural progress." - San Francisco Atheists.
Those sound like "guidelines" to me. As for a "book", these atheists groups tend to go ga-ga over "The Origin of Species". In fact, it appears the man-worshippers have their own "messiah": Charles Darwin. If I remember correctly, a number of atheists got all warm and fuzzy about Darwin's 200th birthday.
-
there's another link to a so-called "Blasphemy Challenge". Now why would atheists be asking people to take this "challenge" and reject their faith?
thanks man - I found the link.
Interesting Stuff - the guy who is behind it is a former born again christian.
If you read the link it's not actually aimed at converting others to their cause but instead encouring other who already agree with them to speak out publicly about their own beliefs. There is no actual proselytizing going on. No one is trying to convert anyone.
Unfortunately we don't know exactly who he is because his last name is kept confidential because he's received so many death threat from other compassionate christians. Funny how it's always the religious ones who feel the need to respond with violence. You'd think people who were filled with the holy spirit would have a little more compassionan and be more peaceful. Funny huh?
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=2833103&page=1
-
thanks man - I found the link.
Interesting Stuff - the guy who is behind it is a former born again christian.
If you read the link it's not actually aimed at converting others to their cause but instead encouring other who already agree with them to speak out publicly about their own beliefs. There is no actual proselytizing going on. No one is trying to convert anyone.
A "Blasphemy Challenge" is anything but that, to folks who already don't believe in God.
Unfortunately we don't know exactly who he is because his last name is kept confidential because he's received so many death threat from other compassionate christians. Funny how it's always the religious ones who feel the need to respond with violence. You'd think people who were filled with the holy spirit would have a little more compassionan and be more peaceful. Funny huh?
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=2833103&page=1
It's also funny that the founder of American Atheists, who claimed that an atheist loves himself and his fellow man, would disown HER OWN SON, for becoming a born-again Christian.
-
I don't find them threatening. I find it comical that some of the very people criticizing religion and people of faith are basically mimicking those same people with their own "religion", complete with "doctrine" and "churches", as it were.
As far as this discussion goes, your arguments and questions continue to get more inconsistent and silly by the hour.
You keep flip-flopping. One minute, you don't see an example of atheist proselytizing; then, when one (or several) get pointed out to you, here you come with your feeble "So what? Why are you scared?" routine.
That is made even sillier by the fact that your takes are two-faced on this issue. If you truly have a "who cares?" attitude with regards to people of faith (or lack thereof), you wouldn't be wishing that atheists (or someone) woud proselytize to counter what you coined to be the "mind-virus" of Christianity.
I haven't seen any real examples of proselytizing.
billboards on a bus aren't an example
people meeting in private aren't an example
Even that Blaspemy Challenge isn't an example.
Proseltizing is going around, univited and trying to convince people to adopt your beliefs.
Do you think this sign on a bus is the same as going door to door trying to convince people that they are sinners and they are going to hell unless they adopt your beliefs.
-
::) Waaaaa! All McWay does is punch people right in the mouth when they start making bad arguments, etc.
LMFAO............
"evolution is fact"
"bad argument, are you saying that two things banged together, some goo formed a human crawled out?"
ya mcway is a real genius.
-
A "Blasphemy Challenge" is anything but that, to folks who already don't believe in God.
read the article and you'll see quite clearly that it's not aimed at converting anyone.
It's also funny that the founder of American Atheists, who claimed that an atheist loves himself and his fellow man, would disown HER OWN SON, for becoming a born-again Christian.
no argument from me. That's fucked up
It's almost as fucked up as Christians sending death threats to people who hold beliefs other than their own.
That's very fucked up.
Don't you agree?
-
LMFAO............
"evolution is fact"
"bad argument, are you saying that two things banged together, some goo formed a human crawled out?"
ya mcway is a real genius.
He's just better at that whole argument thing than most of the people who post on this website.
-
I haven't seen any real examples of proselytizing.
billboards on a bus aren't an example
people meeting in private aren't an example
Even that Blaspemy Challenge isn't an example.
Proseltizing is going around, univited and trying to convince people to adopt your beliefs.
Do you think this sign on a bus is the same as going door to door trying to convince people that they are sinners and they are going to hell unless they adopt your beliefs.
Once again, you're wading in that deep river of De-Nial.
You don't pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for ad space (be it on a bus or anywhere else), just for the heck of it. You do to to DRAW PEOPLE, in order to hear what you have to say and hopefully buy into it. Nobody invited them to slap billboards on buses or make "logic and reason" displays on state capitols during Christmas time. But, they did so.
You are fixated on a type of proselytizing (the old-school form of going door-to-door), making the rather foolish claim that atheists are not doing ANY proselytizing, simply because they aren't using that particular method.
And, with your paper-thin assertion cut to ribbons, you now claim that those aren't "real" forms of proselytizing.
-
Plus the following is clearly proselytizing:
* Fought fervently to defend the Separation of Religion from GovernmentAppeared in all formes of media to defend our positions and criticisms of religion and mythology
* Held Atheist conventions and gatherings throughout the United States, including "Atheist Pride" Marches in state capitals.
* Demonstrated and picketed throughout the country on behalf of Atheist rights and state church separation. The organization has marched to defend the rights of intellectuals such as writer Salman Rushdie, protested the use of government funds to support public religious displays, and conducted the first picket of a Roman Catholic pope in history.
* Published over 120 books about Atheism, criticism of religion, and state/church separation.Published newsletters, magazines and member-alerts.
* Built a broad outreach in cyberspace with mailing lists, an ftp and web site, FaxNet and other projects to keep members and the general public informed.
* Fostered a growing network of Representatives throughout the nation who monitor important First Amendment issues, and work on behalf of the organization in their areas.
* Grown a network of volunteers who perform a variety of important tasks in their community, from placing American Atheist books in libraries to writing letters and publicizing the Atheist perspective.
* Preserved Atheist literature and history in the nation's largest archive of its kind. The library's holdings span over three hundred years of Atheist thought.Provided speakers for colleges, universities, clubs and the news media.
* Granted college scholarships to young atheist activists
http://www.atheists.org/about
-
Once again, you're wading in that deep river of De-Nial.
You don't pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for ad space (be it on a bus or anywhere else), just for the heck of it. You do to to DRAW PEOPLE, in order to hear what you have to say and hopefully buy into it. Nobody invited them to slap billboards on buses or make "logic and reason" displays on state capitols during Christmas time. But, they did so.
You are fixated on a type of proselytizing (the old-school form of going door-to-door), making the rather foolish claim that atheists are not doing ANY proselytizing, simply because they aren't using that particular method.
And, with your paper-thin assertion cut to ribbons, you now claim that those aren't "real" forms of proselytizing.
If you call that poster proselytizing then that's your perogative.
That poster wouldn't motivate anyone to do anything.
If they really want to motivate people they need to scare them and then offer them a solution to their new found fear.
That's how the christians do it.
BTW - You never answered my question.
Don't you agree it's fucked up for Christians to send death threats to that guy from the Blasphemy challange?
Surely we can agree on that point
-
LMFAO............
"evolution is fact"
"bad argument, are you saying that two things banged together, some goo formed a human crawled out?"
ya mcway is a real genius.
I never claimed to be a genius. Fortunately, I don’t need to be one to take your pathetic takes to the woodshed.
Your oft-touted claims of atheism being a mere lack of belief have been thoroughly dissected.
You claimed that there were no tenets; I’ve listed at least two of them; as has Beach Bum.
You claim there was no “book”; last time I checked, “Origin of Species” was one of the (for lack of a better term) sacred documents of the self-proclaimed free-thinker.
And, as Tony has REPEATEDLY pointed out to you on the other thread, you have made no distinction between how atheists like you push YOUR ideals and dogmas onto others and how you claim Christians do so with theirs.
As I've said elsewhere, atheism in practice goes WAY BEYOND the simple lack of belief in a deity. And, based on the statements and actions of atheists (past and present), I've maintained that atheism, for all practical purposes, is every bit a religion as Christianity. Or, simply stated, atheism is effectively man worshipping HIMSELF.
-
Plus the following is clearly proselytizing:
* Fought fervently to defend the Separation of Religion from GovernmentAppeared in all formes of media to defend our positions and criticisms of religion and mythology
* Held Atheist conventions and gatherings throughout the United States, including "Atheist Pride" Marches in state capitals.
* Demonstrated and picketed throughout the country on behalf of Atheist rights and state church separation. The organization has marched to defend the rights of intellectuals such as writer Salman Rushdie, protested the use of government funds to support public religious displays, and conducted the first picket of a Roman Catholic pope in history.
* Published over 120 books about Atheism, criticism of religion, and state/church separation.Published newsletters, magazines and member-alerts.
* Built a broad outreach in cyberspace with mailing lists, an ftp and web site, FaxNet and other projects to keep members and the general public informed.
* Fostered a growing network of Representatives throughout the nation who monitor important First Amendment issues, and work on behalf of the organization in their areas.
* Grown a network of volunteers who perform a variety of important tasks in their community, from placing American Atheist books in libraries to writing letters and publicizing the Atheist perspective.
* Preserved Atheist literature and history in the nation's largest archive of its kind. The library's holdings span over three hundred years of Atheist thought.Provided speakers for colleges, universities, clubs and the news media.
* Granted college scholarships to young atheist activists
http://www.atheists.org/about
Well you're getting closer.
Check out their calendar of events for this month - it's packed with proselytizing
http://www.atheists.org/calendar
the sole "event" this month is some guy going on a paranormal radio show and apparently nothing else planned (as of yet) for the rest of the year.
-
Well you're getting closer.
Check out their calendar of events for this month - it's packed with proselytizing
http://www.atheists.org/calendar
the sole "event" this month is some guy going on a paranormal radio show.
lol. Horrible spin.
-
lol. Horrible spin.
what "spin"?
I was expecting to see a calendar packed with proselytizing events.
Did you scroll though the rest of the year?
Check it out - maybe I missed something
-
If you call that poster proselytizing then that's your perogative.
That poster wouldn't motivate anyone to do anything.
If they really want to motivate people they need to scare them and then offer them a solution to their new found fear.
That's how the christians do it.
That’s hardly the point. The poster and bus billboards were designed to “proselytize”. Effectiveness is another issue altogether. Bad proselytizing is proselytizing, nonetheless.
As for your blurb about "how the Christians do it", that's also categorically false. I've met plenty of people, who became Christians in their adult lives. Virtually NONE of them did so out of fear. They did so, after realizing that God loves them, as per THEIR OWN TESTIMONIES.
BTW - You never answered my question.
Don't you agree it's fucked up for Christians to send death threats to that guy from the Blasphemy challange?
Surely we can agree on that point
I didn’t answer your question, because you didn’t ask it (until now).
Christians shouldn't send death threats to the Blasphemy Challenge Guy. Just as an atheist mother shouldn't disown her son, referring to it as a "postnatal abortion", when he becomes a Christian.
-
I didn’t answer your question, because you didn’t ask it (until now).
Christians shouldn't send death threats to the Blasphemy Challenge Guy. Just as an atheist mother shouldn't disown her son, referring to it as a "postnatal abortion", when he becomes a Christian.
I did ask it on page 3 after I agreed with you that the atheist disowning her son was fucked up
Isn't it nice that we can occassionally agree on something?
-
Plus the following is clearly proselytizing:
* Fought fervently to defend the Separation of Religion from GovernmentAppeared in all formes of media to defend our positions and criticisms of religion and mythology
* Held Atheist conventions and gatherings throughout the United States, including "Atheist Pride" Marches in state capitals.
* Demonstrated and picketed throughout the country on behalf of Atheist rights and state church separation. The organization has marched to defend the rights of intellectuals such as writer Salman Rushdie, protested the use of government funds to support public religious displays, and conducted the first picket of a Roman Catholic pope in history.
* Published over 120 books about Atheism, criticism of religion, and state/church separation.Published newsletters, magazines and member-alerts.
* Built a broad outreach in cyberspace with mailing lists, an ftp and web site, FaxNet and other projects to keep members and the general public informed.
* Fostered a growing network of Representatives throughout the nation who monitor important First Amendment issues, and work on behalf of the organization in their areas.
* Grown a network of volunteers who perform a variety of important tasks in their community, from placing American Atheist books in libraries to writing letters and publicizing the Atheist perspective.
* Preserved Atheist literature and history in the nation's largest archive of its kind. The library's holdings span over three hundred years of Atheist thought.Provided speakers for colleges, universities, clubs and the news media.
* Granted college scholarships to young atheist activists
http://www.atheists.org/about
Still ridiculously dwarfed by organized religion to the point of no comparison. Probably a ratio of a million to one. Just because some books have been published and there's a web site doesn't mean much.
Atheists don't typically solicit. I'm sure there are some that do. However in some religions is the order of their God.
Saying Atheists proselytize is like saying christians steal.
-
Still ridiculously dwarfed by organized religion to the point of no comparison. Probably a ratio of a million to one. Just because some books have been published and there's a web site doesn't mean much.
Atheists don't typically solicit. I'm sure there are some that do. However in some religions is the order of their God.
Saying Atheists proselytize is like saying christians steal.
It doesn't matter if Christians proseltize more than atheists. That wasn't my question. Not the point at all. Organized religion dwarfs atheism, so of course you'll find more religious folks who proseltize. But again, so what.
No, atheists proseltizing is nothing like Christians stealing. Stealing is something Christians believe is wrong. Proselytizing is not considered wrong and it's done by both Christians and atheists, including at "conventions and gatherings throughout the United States, including 'Atheist Pride' Marches in state capitals." (lol) What do they talk about these conventions? I'd really like see what a an Atheist Pride March looks like.
-
It doesn't matter if Christians proseltize more than atheists. That wasn't my question. Not the point at all. Organized religion dwarfs atheism, so of course you'll find more religious folks who proseltize. But again, so what.
No, atheists proseltizing is nothing like Christians stealing. Stealing is something Christians believe is wrong. Proselytizing is not considered wrong and it's done by both Christians and atheists, including at "conventions and gatherings throughout the United States, including 'Atheist Pride' Marches in state capitals." (lol) What do they talk about these conventions? I'd really like see what a an Atheist Pride March looks like.
I'm sure they'd welcome you to march with them :D
It doesn't matter if christians believe stealing is wrong or right. To say Atheists proselytize is as off base as saying christians steal.
-
It doesn't matter if Christians proseltize more than atheists. That wasn't my question. Not the point at all. Organized religion dwarfs atheism, so of course you'll find more religious folks who proseltize. But again, so what.
In other words, just because they suck at it (relatively speaking) doesn't mean they aren't doing it. ;D
No, atheists proseltizing is nothing like Christians stealing. Stealing is something Christians believe is wrong. Proselytizing is not considered wrong and it's done by both Christians and atheists, including at "conventions and gatherings throughout the United States, including 'Atheist Pride' Marches in state capitals." (lol) What do they talk about these conventions? I'd really like see what a an Atheist Pride March looks like.
Can I get a "Praise Chuck (Darwin)!!"?
-
I'm sure they'd welcome you to march with them :D
It doesn't matter if christians believe stealing is wrong or right. To say Atheists proselytize is as off base as saying christians steal.
If you're trying to draw an analogy between Christians and stealing, then you'd have to compare atheism with conduct that they don't embrace. Christians teach that people shouldn't steal. Atheists don't teach that people shouldn't proselytize. To the contrary, atheists "published over 120 books about Atheism, criticism of religion, and state/church separation. Published newsletters, magazines and member-alerts." They "built a broad outreach in cyberspace with mailing lists, an ftp and web site, FaxNet and other projects to keep members and the general public informed." Clearly, these folks are trying to get their message out and convince others to agree with their views.
-
In other words, just because they suck at it (relatively speaking) doesn't mean they aren't doing it. ;D
Can I get a "Praise Chuck (Darwin)!!"?
Word. :D
-
If you're trying to draw an analogy between Christians and stealing, then you'd have to compare atheism with conduct that they don't embrace. Christians teach that people shouldn't steal. Atheists don't teach that people shouldn't proselytize. To the contrary, atheists "published over 120 books about Atheism, criticism of religion, and state/church separation. Published newsletters, magazines and member-alerts." They "built a broad outreach in cyberspace with mailing lists, an ftp and web site, FaxNet and other projects to keep members and the general public informed." Clearly, these folks are trying to get their message out and convince others to agree with their views.
Is that a whole 120 books? "Clearly" there are some Atheists who have written books. So what? Is there atheist spam i should guard against? I've never got any. I suppose if I register on an atheist site I could opt to be on a mass e-mail list, but then, that would have been my choice. It wouldn't have been them actively trying to convince me God does not exist through solicitation.
I change the analogy because you seem to be having trouble grasping the principle. Saying Atheists proselytize is like saying Christians read the bible 6 hours a day.
-
Is that a whole 120 books? "Clearly" there are some Atheists who have written books. So what? Is there atheist spam i should guard against? I've never got any. I suppose if I register on an atheist site I could opt to be on a mass e-mail list, but then, that would have been my choice. It wouldn't have been them actively trying to convince me God does not exist through solicitation.
I change the analogy because you seem to be having trouble grasping the principle. Saying Atheists proselytize is like saying Christians read the bible 6 hours a day.
I didn't have trouble grasping the principle. Your analogy was poor. This one is much better.
Again, I'm not comparing the degree of proselytizing between atheists and Christians. Not the point. I'm focused on whether atheists proselytize and what their message is. The website answers both questions, including indicating atheists
"fostered a growing network of Representatives throughout the nation who monitor important First Amendment issues, and work on behalf of the organization in their areas," and "grown a network of volunteers who perform a variety of important tasks in their community, from placing American Atheist books in libraries to writing letters and publicizing the Atheist perspective."
-
I didn't have trouble grasping the principle. Your analogy was poor. This one is much better.
Again, I'm not comparing the degree of proselytizing between atheists and Christians. Not the point. I'm focused on whether atheists proselytize and what their message is. The website answers both questions, including indicating atheists
"fostered a growing network of Representatives throughout the nation who monitor important First Amendment issues, and work on behalf of the organization in their areas," and "grown a network of volunteers who perform a variety of important tasks in their community, from placing American Atheist books in libraries to writing letters and publicizing the Atheist perspective."
Yeah and the degree of atheist proselytizing is proportionally relevant to christians who read the bible 6 hours a day. In others words, inconsequential and irrelevant.
-
Yeah and the degree of atheist proselytizing is proportionally relevant to christians who read the bible 6 hours a day. In others words, inconsequential and irrelevant.
And if I was talking about the degree of proselytizing, you might have a point.
Then there is the "Atheist Viewpoint" tv show, which "airs around the country." Along with "American Atheist magazine," which is "published monthly." And "the NoGodBlog," which "allows YOU to comment on the issues of the day."
I am finding this to be reallllly humorous. :)
-
And if I was talking about the degree of proselytizing, you might have a point.
Then there is the "Atheist Viewpoint" tv show, which "airs around the country." Along with "American Atheist magazine," which is "published monthly." And "the NoGodBlog," which "allows YOU to comment on the issues of the day."
I am finding this to be reallllly humorous. :)
Wow, a magazine and a TV show. Again, so what? Saying Atheist proselytize is like say christians read the bible 6 hours a day. No one typically sees christians as reading the bible 6 hours a day and no one typically sees atheists proselytizing.
But yet, you want to make a case that says: "Atheists proselytize"
You are right. That is humorous.
-
I've never met anyone who centered their life around Santa Claus and probably never will. That's not realistic.
:o You never met a 4 year old 3 weeks before Christmas?
For them, ...it's ALL about Santa Claus. ...'cause he knows if you've been naughty or nice. :P
-
Wow, a magazine and a TV show. Again, so what? Saying Atheist proselytize is like say christians read the bible 6 hours a day. No one typically sees christians as reading the bible 6 hours a day and no one typically sees atheists proselytizing.
But yet, you want to make a case that says: "Atheists proselytize"
You are right. That is humorous.
I've known a few who do just that... no joke. :-\
-
:o You never met a 4 year old 3 weeks before Christmas?
For them, ...it's ALL about Santa Claus. ...'cause he knows if you've been naughty or nice. :P
We were talking about adults.
-
There is an atheist speaker's bureau. These boys are serious.
American Atheists Speakers' Bureau
Educating For Reason, State-Church Separation and Atheist Civil Rights...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The American Atheists Speaker’s Bureau provides outstanding lecturers on a range of topics of interest to nonbeliever groups and other organizations. Whether it is a debate or presentation format, our Speaker’s Bureau can help to make your organization’s next meeting an exciting and informative event!
FEES AND HONORARIUMS American Atheists will try to work with you in providing a speaker for a reasonable cost. This can factor in related expenses when appropriate, including travel and reasonable per diem, and other associated costs. A suitable honorarium is appreciated from institutions.
TOPICS OF INTEREST Whether it involves a philosophical subject, strategies for defending the First Amendment or political developments, The American Atheists Speaker’s Bureau will help to find and deliver the appropriate presentation for your organization.
http://www.atheists.org/about/speakers_bureau
-
There is an atheist speaker's bureau. These boys are serious.
American Atheists Speakers' Bureau
Educating For Reason, State-Church Separation and Atheist Civil Rights...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The American Atheists Speaker’s Bureau provides outstanding lecturers on a range of topics of interest to nonbeliever groups and other organizations. Whether it is a debate or presentation format, our Speaker’s Bureau can help to make your organization’s next meeting an exciting and informative event!
FEES AND HONORARIUMS American Atheists will try to work with you in providing a speaker for a reasonable cost. This can factor in related expenses when appropriate, including travel and reasonable per diem, and other associated costs. A suitable honorarium is appreciated from institutions.
TOPICS OF INTEREST Whether it involves a philosophical subject, strategies for defending the First Amendment or political developments, The American Atheists Speaker’s Bureau will help to find and deliver the appropriate presentation for your organization.
http://www.atheists.org/about/speakers_bureau
"Educating for Reason, State-Church Separation and Atheist Civil Rights.."
Yet somebody here think that this is just about simply not believing in God. ::)
-
Bump.
-
Sure seems like it. Why do they try and convince people there is no God?
Maybe I should have posted these questions in the "Is Atheism a Mental Disorder" thread? :D
Yes, 10X worse than Christians in my experience!
-
Yes, some of us do.
-
I've never had an atheist come to my door to proselytize?
I've never seen the 24/7 atheist channel on TV begging for donations so their leaders can live in mansion and fly around in private jets.
I've never seen an atheist meeting place on every other corner in ever town in America
I've never received letters and cards in the mail urging me to join an atheist group or send a donation
etc...
The only thing I've seen are the billboards and signs saying "Relax, there is no god" or the like. Although I haven't seen them around lately.
-
The only thing I've seen are the billboards and signs saying "Relax, there is no god" or the like. Although I haven't seen them around lately.
I'm sure some do. But comparing Christians preaching their personal belief and Atheists preaching their lack of belief it would be similar to saying Tiger Woods and I play golf. I play about twice a year... we both play golf but it's not the same thing.
-
I'm sure some do. But comparing Christians preaching their personal belief and Atheists preaching their lack of belief it would be similar to saying Tiger Woods and I play golf. I play about twice a year... we both play golf but it's not the same thing.
Absolutely, there's not much of a comparison. Christians have a direct charge from Christ to share his message so it's to be expected.
-
Sure seems like it. Why do they try and convince people there is no God?
Maybe I should have posted these questions in the "Is Atheism a Mental Disorder" thread? :D
sure, some may but most just keep it to themselves
atheists don't have any mandate to spread their belief or push it upon others
this is nothing compared to christians who feel compelled to evangelize and spread the "good news" of jesus
you know, that you're born a sinner and your only hope of salvation is to accept jesus as your personal saviour
those people never shut the fuck up
no comparison
not even close
-
Absolutely, there's not much of a comparison. Christians have a direct charge from Christ to share his message so it's to be expected.
There is no comparison. I wasn't making a comparison. Just asking the question of whether they do or not. Pretty organized group of non-believers (or whatever you call organized atheists).
Did you know they have atheist churches?
-
There is no comparison. I wasn't making a comparison. Just asking the question of whether they do or not. Pretty organized group of non-believers (or whatever you call organized atheists).
Did you know they have atheist churches?
didn't know that but I would guess that the vast majority of people who identify as atheist don't belong to any church and don't feel compelled in any way to convince someone to become an atheist
christians (and other religions) have a mandate to spread the word, evangelize, convert etc..
Are there organized atheist groups who travel the world going on mission trips, trying to convert the natives, etc..
I'm not aware of any but perhaps you know of some