True Adonis (Adam) has been completely exposed...

[pellius]

Adonis believes that in order to get ripped you must cut calories (Connelly disagrees).  Adonis also believes that as long as you consume .5 - 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight, you could consume anything else you want and still lose fat gain muscle (Connelly disagrees).  

You may not have to cut calories to lose weight but you will have to burn more calories than you consume and that can be done by manipulating your macro nutrient profile.

You misrepresent TA's position. As long as you get your protein requirements you can eat anything you want just not as much as you want. You will still have to be in a caloric deficit if your goal is to lose weight.

[pellius]

A calorie is not a calorie once it enters the human body.

Correct.

[FREAKgeek]

Of course calories in calories out is all that matters regarding weight gain, loss, maintenance. But you are correct with your example as well. Because though the calories in may be the same but calories out is not. There is a metabolic cost of converting protein to glucose. TA thinks it's trivial but in the long run it's not. Though the calculations vary we can reasonably go with 10%. So with a 3,000 calories/day diet that's a 300 caloric deficit. That's 2,100 calories per week.

Also, your body can live just on protein alone since protein can be converted to glucose and used for energy. Carbohydrates cannot be converted into amino acids. So with a diet primarily composed of carbohydrates it would have to break down muscle tissue to get the required amount of amino acids.

You can live without carbs, but you do need essential fats in your diet.

[The True Adonis]

New Lyric:

How many Peer Reviewed Studies does a man have to read, before he realizes the Adonis Principles are correct?  The answer my friend, is Blowing in the Wind...

[Vince B]

My point is that nobody on this forum in a world authority in human nutrition. Many consider they are expert re nutrition for bodybuilding. However, I doubt much is really known about this area because it has not been studied independently because there is little academic interest in bodybuilders. The supplement companies are keenly interested and have sponsored some research but that is not what I call independent research.

Usually,we have to extrapolate from nutrition studies with athletes and/or the general population. Almost nothing is known about the nutritional needs of professional and amateur bodybuilders.

[pellius]

You can live without carbs, but you do need essential fats in your diet.

Truth. I was thinking about a tribe living in some frozen tundra that eat only protein (caribou) but they also get their fats from the meat.

[pellius]

New Lyric:

How many Peer Reviewed Studies does a man have to read, before he realizes the Adonis Principles are correct?  The answer my friend, is Blowing in the Wind...

Then take the free trip. You have everything to win and nothing to lose if you are correct.

[The True Adonis]

Hate to break it to you:

This already has been done with hundreds like it.
The results are in.
The Consensus is made.
How many do I have to post?


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WN4-4C4FMW6-JJ&_user=10&_coverDate=03/31/1964&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1285740643&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d2a738c61fcc81eb3c0871f97b08f081


Calories do count

Laurance W. Kinsell M.D.a, Barbara Gunning Ph.D.a, George D. Michaels Ph.D.a, James Richardson M.D.a, Stephen E. Cox M.D.a and Calvin Lemon M.D.a
aThe Institute for Metabolic Research, Highland-Alameda County Hospital, Oakland, Calif., USA
Received 27 November 1963.  Available online 10 April 2004.


Abstract
There have been statements in the medical and the lay literature to the effect that weight loss occurs more rapidly with diets high in fat and protein asc compared to equi-caloric diets containing large amounts of carbohydrate. In the present study, subjects have been maintained for many weeks on constant calorie intake. At intervals, the composition of the diet has been changed, the fat intake varying from 12 to 83 per cent, protein from 14 to 36 per cent, and carbohydrate from 3 to 64 per cent of total calories. In any given subject, the rate of weight loss was essentially constant throughout the entire study. It is therefore obvious that the significant factor responsible for weight loss is reduction of calories, irrespective of the composition of the diet.

[nycbull]

lovely song

[The True Adonis]

The fraudulent claims of Calories not being the main culprit is one of the VERY FUCKING reasons people are so confused when it comes time to eat.

You then put impossible (fraudulent) limits on what they can and cannot eat which results in a high rate of failure as misery with limited food choices sets in.

[pellius]

The protein requirement of bodybuilders is not determined by what characters on discussion boards believe. Only independent, peer reviewed, exercise science-nutrition studies can achieve that. It will be a sad day if the protein requirement is high. I await these new studies. Hopefully, they will be legitimate studies done at a first rate university that is known for its human nutrition department.

What is Mindspin's stake in this debate? He loses credibility if he is but a pawn in Connelly's scheme.

A pound of lean beef is about 100 grams of protein. I don't know what the minimum protein requirements are to take care of all the nutritional needs and optimal health of a 200 pound man but would he not need to be at some surplus eventually totaling 100 grams to gain a pound of muscle?

[The True Adonis]

You tell a person who is a food connoisseur that he can only eat dry Chicken and Microwaved oats, you better believe he is more than likely going to fail.

Who would want to put themselves through such Sadomasochism for no reason whatsoever?

Don`t be surprised if they fail.

[CT_Muscle]

Does anyone here know what insulin does to the extra carbs you eat, cheesecake factory chessecake has 1400+++ calories and thats for dessert 

[The Ugly]

You tell a person who is a food connoisseur that he can only eat dry Chicken and Microwaved oats, you better believe he is more than likely going to fail.

Who would want to put themselves through such Sadomasochism for no reason whatsoever?

Don`t be surprised if they fail.

Google the phrase "I accept" and post that shit.

[mar10s]

Why don't you just accept the challenge and be done with it?

[The True Adonis]

Why don't you just accept the challenge and be done with it?

There is no challenge.  I WANTED the challenge of putting together an experiment and then a debate.

[The Ugly]

I WANT a debate.

Done.

Set it up, MS.

[dr.chimps]

Truth. I was thinking about a tribe living in some frozen tundra that eat only protein (caribou) but they also get their fats from the meat.

Agree. The Inuit from our Far North and the South Pacific Islanders have had their 'normal' heavy-based protein diet and their carb-sparing food intake/metabolism devastated by imported (mostly cheap carbs like alcohol and 'Pringles') durables. This has resulted in rates of diabetes nearing 50% of local population. These are the studies that these diet gurus should note.

[natural al]

it's like I stepped into a time machine and got out in 06....this place never changes.

[mar10s]

There is no challenge.  I WANTED the challenge of putting together an experiment and then a debate.

Well then do that and have MindSpin fly you and you (Jez) out to the debate portion and git er dun!  Sittin' on the computer typing all damn day sure as hell isn't gonna get the job done.  And while your at it...during the debate, deadlift the 225 for 112 reps in 5 minutes...that would be "da coolest".

[The Ugly]

it's like I stepped into a time machine and got out in 06....this place never changes.

Tell the future hello, spaceman.

[dr.chimps]

it's like I stepped into a time machine and got out in 06....this place never changes.

LOL. Wahay, al. What's the word, Van Halen-wise?  

[pellius]

There is no challenge.  I WANTED the challenge of putting together an experiment and then a debate.

Do that on your own dime. Whoever plays the piper calls the tune. Just be a man and say in a straight forward way that you decline the challenge and stop making excuses.

[Van_Bilderass]

Two studies will be published in the next year that will turn this on its head.

I doubt it. Are these some kind of Progenex sponsored studies? The kind that showed HMB to be an extremely effective muscle builder (and which Connelly no doubt based his Met-Rx HMB inclusion on)?

What do you think of Connelly using rats and pictures of a dude on corticosteroids as proof of his theories?

I don't like TA's style and he has definitely modified his stance greatly. He used to say protein intake didn't matter at all. He's been trolling and bullshitting most of the time.

But I also think Connelly is a bit of a conman and he has ulterior motives (selling his special proteins). Using rats and people with diseases on drugs which change metabolism greatly as proof is absolutely ridiculous. And saying calorie counting is useless and calories do not matter at all is even more ridiculous. So if a person ate 1500 grams of protein a day all those calories would vanish into thin air? Why don't more bodybuilders overeat certain macronutrients precontest if calories do not matter? Most are starving and drinking 10 of shakes of Connelly's protein a day would certainly help cravings. That Met-Rx certainly used to taste real good, like candy to me. But energy intake does matter obviously, no one really believes it doesn't.

[MindSpin]

Adonis, stop debating this online.  No one is reading your longwinded cut & paste nonsense.  But EVERYONE will watch the video.  What are you afraid of?