Ahmaud Arbery - Discussion

[Body-Buildah]

i bought a gun 30 years ago. a little 25 Bryco, shot it once, put it in my draw, still sits there to this day.
never fired it again
no need
no chocolates where I live in VT historically.

might need to dig it out now with the refugees coming around though.

[Primemuscle]

Don't own a gun. -Never have given it much thought. In the past 75 years, there has never been any occasion when I felt my life was in danger to the point where I would need a gun. Not saying it couldn't happen, but the likelihood of that is fairly remote. I've also never carried a knife other than the miniature Swiss army knife on my key chain. I've had to throw a couple of them away at the airport because I forgot to remove them ahead of time.

Negative thoughts invite negative events, IMO. If I carried a weapon, it would be to me like a constant reminder of the possibility of something bad happening.

Forty years ago, some kids (or small people) broke into the house through a tiny basement window. They were in the house long enough to gather up a few things to steal. Apparently I arrived home before they'd completed their mission and scared them off. They left what they planned to steal in the middle of the kitchen floor. A B&W TV, a sewing machine and a guitar.  I secured the basement window and bought a Great Dane from a breeder. She didn't have a mean or aggressive bone in her over-sized body. She would stand on her hind legs and look over the top of a 5' fence that I installed to keep her safe and contained. Nobody ever broke into our house again. Some people even crossed the street when walking by our house.   

[Body-Buildah]

Don't own a gun. -Never have given it much thought. In the past 75 years, there has never been any occasion when I felt my life was in danger to the point where I would need a gun. Not saying it couldn't happen, but the likelihood of that is fairly remote. I've also never carried a knife other than the miniature Swiss army knife on my key chain. I've had to throw a couple of them away at the airport because I forgot to remove them ahead of time.

Negative thoughts invite negative events, IMO. If I carried a weapon, it would be to me like a constant reminder of the possibility of something bad happening.

Forty years ago, some kids (or small people) broke into the house through a tiny basement window. They were in the house long enough to gather up a few things to steal. Apparently I arrived home before they'd completed their mission and scared them off. They left what they planned to steal in the middle of the kitchen floor. A B&W TV, a sewing machine and a guitar.  I secured the basement window and bought a Great Dane from a breeder. She didn't have a mean or aggressive bone in her over-sized body. She would stand on her hind legs and look over the top of a 5' fence that I installed to keep her safe and contained. Nobody ever broke into our house again. Some people even crossed the street when walking by our house.   

you live in a place where its not needed, many do not have that luxury
people are constantly defending their homes from home invaders, though the news likes to ignore it

[The Scott]

Don't own a gun. -Never have given it much thought. In the past 75 years, there has never been any occasion when I felt my life was in danger to the point where I would need a gun. Not saying it couldn't happen, but the likelihood of that is fairly remote. I've also never carried a knife other than the miniature Swiss army knife on my key chain. I've had to throw a couple of them away at the airport because I forgot to remove them ahead of time.

Negative thoughts invite negative events, IMO. If I carried a weapon, it would be to me like a constant reminder of the possibility of something bad happening.

Forty years ago, some kids (or small people) broke into the house through a tiny basement window. They were in the house long enough to gather up a few things to steal. Apparently I arrived home before they'd completed their mission and scared them off. They left what they planned to steal in the middle of the kitchen floor. A B&W TV, a sewing machine and a guitar.  I secured the basement window and bought a Great Dane from a breeder. She didn't have a mean or aggressive bone in her over-sized body. She would stand on her hind legs and look over the top of a 5' fence that I installed to keep her safe and contained. Nobody ever broke into our house again. Some people even crossed the street when walking by our house.   

I agree with you, sir.  A dog is great!  We have had a few Dobermans as pets, one of which was what is often called (albeit incorrectly) a "Warlock" Doberman.  He was Schutzhund.  I once got a flattop haircut (from shoulder length!) and when I went to come in via a fence gate, our Dobie came at me and had my wrist in her teeth until she recognized me.

We no longer have Dobies but I think about getting a pair of them again but I doubt that will happen. I could not walk them like they would need because of my physical problem.  I like dogs. As for cats, a Maine Coone (by the belly of the buddha, I had to spell it with an "e" otherwise it came out as "guy"..It's a CAT!) would be great.  They're like a dog in some ways and can get quite large and enjoy walks on a leash.   I've had friends that have them and they would be soooo cool to own along with Dobies.  I'm rambling...sorry.  Back on topic.

It is unfortunate that this young man was killed.  Yes, I doubt he was going to be much of an asset to society but if we are honest, we really don't know.  But we do know that he was a verified asshole with a history of being a real turd.  We also know there's no time travel because if there were, I would've fixed a ton of shit by now.   

[Primemuscle]

you live in a place where its not needed, many do not have that luxury
people are constantly defending their homes from home invaders, though the news likes to ignore it

At the time that this attempted robbery happened we lived in what was then considered Portland's black ghetto. Also, despite having a very attentive police department in my current location, there are burglaries. One noteworthy case happened a few years ago about 1/4 mile from my house. Gertrude Boyle, former Chair and owner of Columbia Sportwear was kidnapped and held prisoner in her own garage.

If a thief is looking for a good mark, they are going to choose a neighborhood where they are most likely to get a good haul. It may not be the kind of spur of the moment theft you'd find elsewhere, but one which is more carefully plotted and ultimately more dangerous to the victim.

gert boyle robbery columbia sportswear
Author: KGW Staff
Published: 4:55 AM PDT October 30, 2013
Updated: 4:55 AM PDT October 30, 2013
Facebook Twitter
PORTLAND, Ore. -- Last week's attack on Columbia Sportswear's Gert Boyle included a plan to kidnap her and hold her for ransom,according to probable cause documents obtained by KGWNewsChannel 8.

Jose Luis Arevalo told investigators that he drove his van to Gert Boyle s house for the purpose of kidnapping her in exchange for $20,000 as a share.

The information came as part of an indcitment filed Tuesday against the three defendents and obtained exclusively by KGW.

Court documents show the suspects planned with the purpose of compelling Gertrude Boyle and or her family and/or her company to pay or deliver money for property as ransom.

The court documents stated that Ramon Alberto Midence and Nestor Gabriel Caballero Gutierrez started plotting the kidnap and ransom scheme as early as January.

The indicment listed eight witnesses testified before the grand jury, including Boyle, police and a relative of one of the suspects.


Arevalo and Midence were arrested Monday in connection with the home invasion robbery of former Columbia Sportswear CEO Gert Boyle. They face burglary, robbery and kidnapping charges.

In documents obtained by KGW, Midence admitted plotting the crime in advance with 39-year-old Caballero Gutierrez, and dropping him off at Boyle's house that night.

Caballero Gutierrez is charged with kidnapping, assault, conspiracy, solicitation, coercion, robbery and burglary.

West Linn police saidCaballero Gutierrez approached Boyle in her driveway and forced his way into her home while holding her at gun-point. He then reportedly tied Boyle up before fleeing the scene last Wednesday night. Boyle was able to set off an alarm that alerted police.

Caballero Gutierrez confesses

In probable cause documents, detectives wrote that Caballero Gutierrez confessed to the burglary and had the victim's jewelry.

Caballero Gutierrez appeared in court on charges of kidnapping, robbery and burglaryFriday. He was also being detained on a no bail immigration hold.

According to friends of the suspects and police reports, all three appeared to be broke, desperate, and looking for money.

This wasn't a random thing at all, this wasn't a guy in the neighborhood looking for big houses, said Sgt. Neil Hennelly of the West Linn police department. He was specifically going after Gert Boyle.

Suspect's home foreclosed

Caballero Gutierrez lives in a quiet Beaverton neighborhood.

On Friday, KGW learned that Caballero Gutierrez was forced out of his home in Sherwood after defaulting on his loan. Records show his $315,000 loan was foreclosed in December of 2009.

One neighbor told KGW he was surprised to learn of the charges.

We've known him for quite a while, he's always been such a great.. seemed like a hard worker, really great guy, said Tom Tucker.

Caballero Gutierrez doesn't have a criminal history.

It's sad. I don't know what to say, why that happened, said his brother-in-law Patrick Darang. Just probably stress, I don't know. Money problems . . . who knows what it is.

State records showed that until about a year ago, Caballero Gutierrez ran Creativa Advertising Agency out of a Southwest Portland office. The agency specialized in marketing to Hispanic clients.

He had a nice office. He hustled quite a bit and was always on the move, and he looked like he was doing fine, a man who worked in the same office building said.

The man, who asked not to be identified, said Caballero Gutierrez' office abruptly closed about a year ago. He added, a number of people would come by looking for bills that had not been taken care of.

I was asking him if he had any more work and he said that the situation was just really bad, said Mike Iguarta, who worked for him and last spoke with him about four months ago.

Boyle received only minor injuries in the attack, but was still feeling well enough to kid the West Linn chief of police about his outerwear choice when he showed up at her door wearing a North Face jacket.

MORE: Boyle thwarts robber, presses panic button

KGWReporter Kyle Iboshi contributed to this report

 

[Megalodon]

At the time that this attempted robbery happened we lived in what was then considered Portland's black ghetto. Also, despite having a very attentive police department in my current location, there are burglaries. One noteworthy case happened a few years ago about 1/4 mile from my house. Gertrude Boyle, former Chair and owner of Columbia Sportwear was kidnapped and held prisoner in her own garage.

If a thief is looking for a good mark, they are going to choose a neighborhood where they are most likely to get a good haul. It may not be the kind of spur of the moment theft you'd find elsewhere, but one which is more carefully plotted and ultimately more dangerous to the victim.
 

In WH, did you live on the beach or the desert side of Ventura ave?

[Megalodon]

We were about 12 blocks north of Ventura Blvd on 22734 Calvert which is one property in going east from Fallbrook Ave. It was a fairly large piece of property, maybe 3 acres. It's never been subdivided which seems kind of odd. When I lived there, there was no pool and no tennis court. From the air, the house looks the same.

Can't see much from the street because of the vegetation. Here's an aerial view of the place:

I'll get back to you with info but same as you, both WH and R but WH South of V near Taft.

[Body-Buildah]

If a thief is looking for a good mark, they are going to choose a neighborhood where they are most likely to get a good haul. It may not be the kind of spur of the moment theft you'd find elsewhere, but one which is more carefully plotted and ultimately more dangerous to the victim.
 

true, but if not a place where it happens daily (like in some places) chances are much less of it happening
in some places (baltimore, chicago, detroit, philly) you'd be dumb to not own some sort of lethal (or paralyzing) protection in your home

[Body-Buildah]

crime in my town:

[Thin Lizzy]

crime in my town:

I’ve seen the audience for Phish concerts when they play Saratoga. Good luck finding a black guy in that crowd.

Vermont is a beautiful state but you must freeze your ass off up there in the winter.

[pellius]

I was referring to your legal troubles.  It's been discussed on the board in the past.  I'm pretty sure you've even talked about it, on the board.   

If you are talking about the time when I was without health insurance and ordered Test online which was seized and I had a controlled delivery that was over 12 years ago (I didn't realize you have been on this board that long). I had been treated by an endocrinologist for years prior who prescribed me my TRT. He confirmed that I was under his care and determined that I had a physical need for the hormone. It was also stressed that though Testosterone is under the Steroid Controlled Act, it is a  hormone, not a drug per se, produced naturally in your body. It was compared to those that order insulin from Canada which also requires a prescription but don't have the insurance for the script or can afford the prices the US charges.

The case was dismissed and I have no record and free to purchase and own firearms.

[pellius]

Don't own a gun. -Never have given it much thought. In the past 75 years, there has never been any occasion when I felt my life was in danger to the point where I would need a gun. Not saying it couldn't happen, but the likelihood of that is fairly remote. I've also never carried a knife other than the miniature Swiss army knife on my key chain. I've had to throw a couple of them away at the airport because I forgot to remove them ahead of time.

Negative thoughts invite negative events, IMO. If I carried a weapon, it would be to me like a constant reminder of the possibility of something bad happening.

Forty years ago, some kids (or small people) broke into the house through a tiny basement window. They were in the house long enough to gather up a few things to steal. Apparently I arrived home before they'd completed their mission and scared them off. They left what they planned to steal in the middle of the kitchen floor. A B&W TV, a sewing machine and a guitar.  I secured the basement window and bought a Great Dane from a breeder. She didn't have a mean or aggressive bone in her over-sized body. She would stand on her hind legs and look over the top of a 5' fence that I installed to keep her safe and contained. Nobody ever broke into our house again. Some people even crossed the street when walking by our house.   

Do you believe that owning a fire extinguisher would be a "negative thought" that would invite a fire? Do you believe buying insurance would be a "negative thought" inviting disaster or accidents? Does having a powerful, well armed military invite foreign aggression? This is not meant as an attack but I don't understand the logic of being prepared for unfortunate or even life-threatening events.

You are fortunate that nothing ever happened that put your life in danger. Many have not been as lucky and have paid the price. They did not own a gun and had no means to protect themselves. Not owning a gun did nothing for their good karma or positive thoughts. It is without exaggeration that overwhelmingly, I would venture to guess well over 90%, of people killed or murdered, did not own a gun. We do know for a fact that lives have been saved by citizens that were armed.

[pellius]

I agree with you, sir.  A dog is great!  We have had a few Dobermans as pets, one of which was what is often called (albeit incorrectly) a "Warlock" Doberman.  He was Schutzhund.  I once got a flattop haircut (from shoulder length!) and when I went to come in via a fence gate, our Dobie came at me and had my wrist in her teeth until she recognized me.

We no longer have Dobies but I think about getting a pair of them again but I doubt that will happen. I could not walk them like they would need because of my physical problem.  I like dogs. As for cats, a Maine Coone (by the belly of the buddha, I had to spell it with an "e" otherwise it came out as "guy"..It's a CAT!) would be great.  They're like a dog in some ways and can get quite large and enjoy walks on a leash.   I've had friends that have them and they would be soooo cool to own along with Dobies.  I'm rambling...sorry.  Back on topic.

It is unfortunate that this young man was killed.  Yes, I doubt he was going to be much of an asset to society but if we are honest, we really don't know.  But we do know that he was a verified asshole with a history of being a real turd.  We also know there's no time travel because if there were, I would've fixed a ton of shit by now.   

A good guard dog is the best defense against a home invasion and they are a huge deterrent when you are out for a walk. Unfortunately, I didn't have my dog with me when I was getting gas at around 2 in the morning at a remote station in the middle of Barstow when I saw a nig waking toward me asking what time it was and notice about three others walking toward me from all directions. I pulled out my Glock 19 which I had in a fanny pack, looked down at it, and told him it was around 2 am. He said thanks and they all walked away.

Also, few restaurants and movie theatres allow you to bring your German Shepard with you.

[Twaddle]

If you are talking about the time when I was without health insurance and ordered Test online which was seized and I had a controlled delivery that was over 12 years ago (I didn't realize you have been on this board that long). I had been treated by an endocrinologist for years prior who prescribed me my TRT. He confirmed that I was under his care and determined that I had a physical need for the hormone. It was also stressed that though Testosterone is under the Steroid Controlled Act, it is a  hormone, not a drug per se, produced naturally in your body. It was compared to those that order insulin from Canada which also requires a prescription but don't have the insurance for the script or can afford the prices the US charges.

The case was dismissed and I have no record and free to purchase and own firearms.

My bad, I must be mistaken.  I remember when Vince B kept calling you by your real name.  I think it was the quarter pounder thread.  Anyways, somebody had posted a link to your court records in Hawaii.  I thought I remembered reading that you plead guilty to a felony, or plea deal, or something.  I just assumed you weren't allowed to buy guns.  Maybe it was somebody else.  My bad, I must have you mixed up with somebody else.

[The Scott]

A good guard dog is the best defense against a home invasion and they are a huge deterrent when you are out for a walk. Unfortunately, I didn't have my dog with me when I was getting gas at around 2 in the morning at a remote station in the middle of Barstow when I saw a nig waking toward me asking what time it was and notice about three others walking toward me from all directions. I pulled out my Glock 19 which I had in a fanny pack, looked down at it, and told him it was around 2 am. He said thanks and they all walked away.

Also, few restaurants and movie theatres allow you to bring your German Shepard with you.

My family is asking me to think about one of those canine assistants but in large size and Shutzhund trained.  They said at the least I should get an iPhone and an Apple watch because I tend to fall a lot and the watch will do the old, "Help! I've fallen and can't giddyup!"   

I can't even run from trouble, dammit!  I'm better off than a bunch of people I've met so I tend to make fun of myself and try to have a sense of humor.  I like Dobies and German Shepherds so when I finally get to retire I may get a couple of them.

Thanks for the words, brother!  Believe me, I am listening.

[ThisisOverload]

Don't own a gun. -Never have given it much thought. In the past 75 years, there has never been any occasion when I felt my life was in danger to the point where I would need a gun. Not saying it couldn't happen, but the likelihood of that is fairly remote. I've also never carried a knife other than the miniature Swiss army knife on my key chain. I've had to throw a couple of them away at the airport because I forgot to remove them ahead of time.

Negative thoughts invite negative events, IMO. If I carried a weapon, it would be to me like a constant reminder of the possibility of something bad happening.

Forty years ago, some kids (or small people) broke into the house through a tiny basement window. They were in the house long enough to gather up a few things to steal. Apparently I arrived home before they'd completed their mission and scared them off. They left what they planned to steal in the middle of the kitchen floor. A B&W TV, a sewing machine and a guitar.  I secured the basement window and bought a Great Dane from a breeder. She didn't have a mean or aggressive bone in her over-sized body. She would stand on her hind legs and look over the top of a 5' fence that I installed to keep her safe and contained. Nobody ever broke into our house again. Some people even crossed the street when walking by our house.   

I wish I lived in an area that I didn't worry about having a gun.  Growing up in a bad part of Houston and then living in Albuquerque for several years made me very nervous.  I've traveled to 30+ states for work and stayed in some sketchy areas.

I can tell you at least 7-8 situations where I either wished I had a gun or the fact that I had one stopped a bad situation.  12 years ago a group of thugs tried to rob my ex-wife and I as we left an expensive department store; I was not carrying at this time but we where able to run to my car and get away before they hit one of us with a piece of rebar; they were not intending on threatening us, they were going to hurt us or worse.  They busted my car window but thankfully I was able to get away.  There were 3 guys dressed in black, all carrying pieces of steel pipe or rebar, it was hard to tell.  The weekend after this happen there was a lady beaten half to death with a pipe in the same parking lot; they took her purse and a $300 bracelet she just purchased.  I'm assuming this was the same group of guys.

Anyway, I've been all over the world and have been to places where I felt safe and didn't worry about these things.  There are plenty of safe places to live in the US, but I've always lived in big cities due to my choice of work.  My parents live in the mountains of northern New Mexico, there is no crime there at all.  You can leave your house unlocked and keys in your car without concern.  However there is no workforce there, it's a small town that is off the beaten path.

I was robbed at knife point by some refugees in Baden-Baden Germany in 2016, a very nice place to live.  It can happen anywhere I guess.  When it happen the owner of the establishment I was in approached me and told me to leave immediately; apparently the refugees are protected there and me being an American it was useless to contact the authorities.  He made me leave and promise never to return, like it was my fault.  I did contact the Police and they took a report and told me it would be best for me not to discuss this to anyone.  I left the following day for Munich instead of staying the extra 3 days I had planned.  Crazy shit.

[Twaddle]

I wish I lived in an area that I didn't worry about having a gun.  Growing up in a bad part of Houston and then living in Albuquerque for several years made me very nervous.  I've traveled to 30+ states for work and stayed in some sketchy areas.

I can tell you at least 7-8 situations where I either wished I had a gun or the fact that I had one stopped a bad situation.  12 years ago a group of thugs tried to rob my ex-wife and I as we left an expensive department store; I was not carrying at this time but we where able to run to my car and get away before they hit one of us with a piece of rebar; they were not intending on threatening us, they were going to hurt us or worse.  They busted my car window but thankfully I was able to get away.  There were 3 guys dressed in black, all carrying pieces of steel pipe or rebar, it was hard to tell.  The weekend after this happen there was a lady beaten half to death with a pipe in the same parking lot; they took her purse and a $300 bracelet she just purchased.  I'm assuming this was the same group of guys.

Anyway, I've been all over the world and have been to places where I felt safe and didn't worry about these things.  There are plenty of safe places to live in the US, but I've always lived in big cities due to my choice of work.  My parents live in the mountains of northern New Mexico, there is no crime there at all.  You can leave your house unlocked and keys in your car without concern.  However there is no workforce there, it's a small town that is off the beaten path.

I was robbed at knife point by some refugees in Baden-Baden Germany in 2016, a very nice place to live.  It can happen anywhere I guess.  When it happen the owner of the establishment I was in approached me and told me to leave immediately; apparently the refugees are protected there and me being an American it was useless to contact the authorities.  He made me leave and promise never to return, like it was my fault.  I did contact the Police and they took a report and told me it would be best for me not to discuss this to anyone.  I left the following day for Munich instead of staying the extra 3 days I had planned.  Crazy shit.

I've never been to Houston, but I can attest, that Albuquerque is a shithole.   

[Body-Buildah]

I've never been to Houston, but I can attest, that Albuquerque is a shithole.   

mexican gang members everywhere

[Primemuscle]

true, but if not a place where it happens daily (like in some places) chances are much less of it happening
in some places (baltimore, chicago, detroit, philly) you'd be dumb to not own some sort of lethal (or paralyzing) protection in your home

The crime rate is high in these cities for sure. I would not choose to live in any of those places for a number of reasons, including the high crime rate.

[Primemuscle]

crime in my town:

Crime rate in my town.

Crime Rate
(per 1,000 residents)

0.93

8.82

9.75

POPULATION: 26,756

Number of Crimes

VIOLENT = 25   PROPERTY = 236   TOTAL = 261

[Body-Buildah]

lots of joggers around here, only they are really out jogging, not lootin' hootin' & hollerin'

[Kwon]

lots of joggers around here, only they are really out jogging, not lootin' hootin' & hollerin'

Those joggers are a different breed

[Primemuscle]

 
BREAKING NEWS - The New York Times
The three white men arrested in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery, a black man who was chased while jogging in Georgia, were indicted on murder charges.

Wednesday, June 24, 2020 4:50 PM EST
The men — Gregory McMichael, 64; his son Travis McMichael, 34; and their neighbor William Bryan, 50 — were arrested and charged last month with murder and other charges in connection with Mr. Arbery’s death, which prompted nationwide protests and indignation, particularly after a graphic video of his Feb. 23 killing was released online.

[Teutonic Knight 1]

I was robbed at knife point by some refugees in Baden-Baden Germany in 2016, a very nice place to live.  It can happen anywhere I guess.  When it happen the owner of the establishment I was in approached me and told me to leave immediately; apparently the refugees are protected there and me being an American it was useless to contact the authorities.  He made me leave and promise never to return, like it was my fault.  I did contact the Police and they took a report and told me it would be best for me not to discuss this to anyone.  I left the following day for Munich instead of staying the extra 3 days I had planned.  Crazy shit.

  Angela Merkel muslim grandkids rob yaa ...................