Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: kevcat on December 03, 2007, 06:08:57 AM
-
Just curious about opinions on this. I always read or hear people saying that Ronnie Coleman is/was the hardest working bodybuilder in the world at his prime.But having seen his DVDs ( im a big fan ) i dont get where this comes from. It made me think when i heard Bryan Dobson say it on PBW.Ronnie does lift heavy heavy weights but it doesnt qualify as hardest working. He doesnt seem to push himself to failure often and he always looks like he could force a couple more reps on his final sets. The reason he lifted so heavy was natural strength with roids and a good work ethic.I dont think he kills himself in the gym as much as others ive seen. People will say he obviously didnt need to but it brings up the whole debate of wether we should work to positive failure etc. Opinions??
-
some say it was platz. "Mr. Intensity".
-
Yeh theres tons of stories, i only wish there were more footage of the likes of Arnold and Sergio training the way the spin out DVD after DVD of the pro's now
-
Nasser.
-
Ruhl in made ingerman pushes himself to the limit.
-
There are lots of guys that trained like fireballs but the craziest and strongest I would have to say are the Barbarian twins. They threw weights around like rag dolls and there strength and intensity was out of this world.
-
i say coleman
you don't get that strong at that body fat % by accident. the guy lifted weights on a regular basis that lesser pros like cutler would have had nightmares about.
training to failure means absolutely nothing. joe average on his first day at the gym can train to failure with a 10lb dumbell, including forced reps, negative, the whole thing.
setting up for an 800lb double squat/deadlift after about an hours worth of lifting and one wrong move could mean disaster...this is hard training.
ronnie didn't shirk the compound movements ie d/lift, rows (bb and tb) squat, etc. any of these lifts you could stop 4 reps short of failure and you're going to beat lat pulldown, extensions, cable rows, db flies, curls to failure/beyond every single time.
-
Nasser
200 pounds dumbell shoulder pressses
Wide grip pullups with 3 plates attached
-
Nasser
200 pounds dumbell shoulder pressses
Wide grip pullups with 3 plates attached
nasser didn't do 200lb shoulder presses.
this should help some.
-
Nasser handsdown.
-
Just curious about opinions on this. I always read or hear people saying that Ronnie Coleman is/was the hardest working bodybuilder in the world at his prime.But having seen his DVDs ( im a big fan ) i dont get where this comes from. It made me think when i heard Bryan Dobson say it on PBW.Ronnie does lift heavy heavy weights but it doesnt qualify as hardest working. He doesnt seem to push himself to failure often and he always looks like he could force a couple more reps on his final sets. The reason he lifted so heavy was natural strength with roids and a good work ethic.I dont think he kills himself in the gym as much as others ive seen. People will say he obviously didnt need to but it brings up the whole debate of wether we should work to positive failure etc. Opinions??
translation=you're looking for justification for your monster 155 pound bb rows and benches just because your arms are shaking while you do them.
-
Vince Taylor. LMAO
-
wot is squadfather on about??? This has nothing to do with how strong i am, cos im admittedly pretty weak compared to alot of people.I can see youre obviously not hard working in the gym or youd probably be 50 lbs lighter ;D
Its about who puts in the most effort in the gym i was asking.Not whos the strongest.If i had the natural strength and genetics that Coleman had then id be doing his poundages probably after 20 years training and tons of juice.That doesnt make Ronnie the hardest working.He had good genetics.Although the fact he worked as a police officer for years and still worked out and done his 2 hours cardio on the same day takes alot of determination ill say.
-
I've gotta go with Yates on this one,
although I think Ronnie's a much better bodybuilder, the amount of intensity that Yates brought to the gym
was ridiculous! :o
-
some say it was platz. "Mr. Intensity".
i would have to go with mr. platz to.
-
Ruhl in made ingerman pushes himself to the limit.
100% agreed
-
Gaspari,Defendis,Platz!!
-
vince taylor, flex wheeler and victor Martinez
train with the intensity of 12 year old school girls
-
A contradiction in terms. Lifting a light weight for 30 seconds and then resting for another 30 seconds is not a hard thing to do although bodybuilders will make it look hard. Especially the cheaters on juice who don't train hard, don't train heavy and have fake muscles.
-
Yates.
-
Yates.
Business as usual!!!!
-
Ever train in 100+ degree weather? its hard as hell and zaps over 20 percent of your strenght until you get use to it and dont give a shit....anyone that trains at metroflex is hardcore if you ask me....
-
Got to go with Arnold on this one. When "Mr Intensity" Tom Platz says nobody could out train Arnold who am I to disagree.
-
Ronnie? Yeah right. He was king of the half rep and had the most appalling form. So many adolescents watched his videos and then hit the gym, only to destroy their shoulders and lower backs.
Ronnie got shortness of breath when walking from bench to rack. Big dumbass Ronnie was a hardcore as a retard in a crop top!
-
IF YOU WANT HUGE, SHREDDED THIGHS Train Like A Dragonslayer!
By Richard Gaspari, Mr. Universe
Other than Jay Cutler and Shawn Ray, who both are at the upper echelon of leg development, clarion-clear cuts, separation, definition and shape, what is going on with the quad and ham development of so many pro bodybuilders these days?
Come on, proportionate to the enormous 24” arms and 46” bloated bellies (which are out of hand), when it comes to rough leg training, going into some gyms today seems like a Sunday ice cream social, sprinkled with 1000 mg. of Anavar. In my opinion, it’s not the true gathering of the buffaloes at the water hole, going into the dungeon of muscle torture, as it once was.
Why are there so many guys doing endless Scott preacher curls and benches, ad nauseam? And what’s with the frigging fashion show with all the women wrapped in lingerie, hair all fluffed and buffed and breasts bigger than 100-pound plates? When did gyms switch to relying on the credit cards of so many pot-bellied, balding guys with saggy skin, cell phones and pagers? Where did the real stuff go?
When did the 24-Hour-Ballys’ ilk pervert our own Gold’s, Powerhouse and World’s Gym bodybuilding sweet perversion? So, you ask, who the Hell is this guy, some frustrated has been?
Nah, I’m just funning with ya’ll, and I appreciate all the iron pumpers getting it on (especially those 100-pound-plate babes) and the huge great pros today, like Cutler, Ray and Coleman!
I really just want to help everybody, but especially the young guys, to show them how to get their legs jammed and rammed, because they just ain’t getting it right today. Okay, yes, so I became a pro when my New Jersey cohort “The Boss” Bruce Springsteen was pumping out his biceps in those Glory Days. My first gym, Health and Strength in Highland Park, N.J., was in a dingy basement where the air was a combo of odiferous ammonia and heavy, dingy, hanging dampness, laced with buzzing mosquitoes without the Nile virus.
The equipment was old, blue Nautilus machines, cable machines that you had to plate load, along with a bunch of rickety benches, rusty plates, and barbells and dumbbells thrown all over the floor. The carpet was ripped with holes from flying weights. The equipment upholstery was so ripped and frayed that it looked like that Russian boxer’s face a couple of months ago after he fought Lennox Lewis.
And, actually, when I did do my Scott preacher curls, I had to place a towel down over the pad because a couple of loose screws would dig into my triceps. But, I also had a loose screw and this was pain with gain! I also remember the guys really taking their lifting seriously and with such leg intensity, Dante’s inferno had nothing on them or me.
When I started training, I was called Mr. Question cause’ I annoyed everyone. I was hungry, the annoying man, like Jon Lovitz used to be on Saturday Night Live. As a teenager I already knew that if I wanted to make pro, my abdominals and legs would have to rock, especially if I was to stand next to giants like Iron Warrior Mike Christian and Lee Marvelous Marvin Haney, with their enormous upper bodies.
-
CONT.
Even on humid, summer, 95-degree, N.J. days, I made my favorite body part my legs.
DRAGONSLAYER RIPPED THICK LEGS
I did so many varying forms of squats and so many sets you could not count them on an Abacus. In fact, as a 19 year old, I actually squatted to depth with 780 lbs. I was about 218 pounds and someone told me at that time it was close to a 220-pound class world record.
I could give a sh*t. I just liked the way it felt to load the weights on a squat bar and see and feel the bar bounce up and down. Later on, when I was in California, I did work out in the same gym as Dr. Squat Hatfield as he was moving in on the 1,000-pound squat and with Cory Everson, along with my partner Lee Haney. I mention Cory because she was one tough cookie, too, and one day on her double split, she actually did 87 sets of legs!
At any rate while still in N.J., my gym owner had to buy special bars because I bent so many of them. Tom Platz was famous for 315 pounds for 50 reps. Well, I did 30 reps once with 495 pounds. I remember fantasizing that I was a Barbarian warrior and that if I could not finish my workout my family and I would be executed.
A guy named David Sinott was my training partner. Today he trains celebrities like Demi Moore. (Now you know who keeps that 40-year-old, Charlie’s Angel babe seducing 25 year olds.) I had one goal on leg day and that was to make David lose his stomach contents.
We started the workout with pre-exhaust, direct, thigh leg extensions. I warmed up my quads with 200 lbs. and continuously increased the weights until I got the stack of 350 lbs. with jacked-intensity drop sets, the last two sets.
I would do three drop sets (also called extended sets) and on the last drop set I would go beyond sanity into the world of negatives. When I got to the top of the extension I would hold the weight up and Dave would push on my shins to get the weight down. I would hold it as hard as I could and he would push with all his strength to the bottom. By the end of this, my legs were on fire and severely pumped (and so were his triceps).
Then I went to the 45-degree angle leg press. This was one of my favorites because I could really load on the weights. I did a light set of five, 45-lb. plates on each side for 15 reps. I moved along for sets of 15 reps. On the last set I had 15, 45-lb. plates on EACH side (lots of sets) and Dave was sitting on top of the machine (another 200 pounds). That was 30 x 45 lbs. plus 200 lbs., or 15 reps with 1750 lbs. counting the carriage. After the 15 reps, Dave got off, stripped two plates, and I did another 12 reps. He took two more plates off each time and I’d crank out 12 or more reps.
I couldn’t even count the sets. I actually popped blood vessels in my eyes. They were bright, rose red. Dave would try to follow with somewhat less intensity and he would die a dozen deaths and lose his potassium in the garbage can, but at least his blood pressure was not 300/110.
By this time I was solo. I went to Smith machine squats. With this exercise I moved my feet forward to give my quads even more play. Since I was plenty warm I started with three, 45-lb. plates on each side, 15 reps. I increased the weight 45 pounds on each side until I got to six plates each side for 15 reps.
My next exercise was the reverse Smith machine lunge supersetted with sissy squats. I did three sets of 15 reps on each exercise and I made it as high as two, 45-lb. plates on the lunges. I would hold a 45-lb. plate on my chest for the sissies. My eyes and thighs were even redder and my thighs were like Mount St, Helens, (not the big-breasted girl doing lap dances, but that Volcano in Washington State).
I took a breather for 10 minutes and drank a half gallon of water. I wore skimpy tight Hotskin shorts so I could see my thighs get huge, veiny and ripped to the femur. I was almost capillary comatose!
Now, Dave had regained some cell equilibrium and came back to join me for hamstring hell. I started with lying leg curls. We did five sets and on the last set I used the stack and did three drop sets. From there we did negatives. I would hold my legs straight out and Dave would pull my ankles downward while I tried to prevent him from doing it.
I was about done. At the end, I did stiff-leg deadlifts, super strict and slow four sets of 15 reps with 225 lbs. God that was it. I was totally cooked and felt my legs throbbing.
Those leg days bring back chills. Those leg workouts pushed me to be the second best male bodybuilder in the IFFB pro ranks at the time. I was Lee Haney’s training partner, but I never beat him. You can talk to anyone from those days. Relative to those before and his then contemporaries, Lee was the greatest who ever lived. Did I have Lee’s genetic size, bone structure and shape? No way, not even close. This guy was an athlete (and gentleman).
But I can say this and Lee would agree – no one, not anyone, ever out-trained me. No one had more gut-busting intensity than I did, especially on legs! I was, after all, the Dragonslayer (Jeff Everson named me that in 1987) and this is the kind of leg workout you must do! Now go get it on!
-
i remember reading that in Planet Muscle a few years ago Wes, good stuff.
-
Defendis training article:
http://timwescott.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=link&action=display&thread=1071852954
-
i remember reading that in Planet Muscle a few years ago Wes, good stuff.
Gets me psyched to train every time I read it Dave !!
-
Gets me psyched to train every time I read it Dave !!
hell yeah Rich was a maniac, brings me back to when i fist got interested in bb'ing around 85-86 and looking through the old Flex's with him, Haney, Strydom, Christian, Bertil, etc., awesome stuff, those guys back then flat out TRAINED.
-
Trained thgeir balls off and looked far better than the "pros" of today.
I bet George Turner trained harder than most pros do today.......seriously.
-
Trained thgeir balls off and looked far better than the "pros" of today.
I bet George Turner trained harder than most pros do today.......seriously.
hahahaha, dude George is AWESOME, talked to him many times, he has some stories that will blow your mind, about Grimek, Reeves, Paul Anderson, Chuck Ahrens, Reg park and all those legends, he is a CHARACTER, he trained one of the best small bb'ers i've ever seen Clif Koons.
-
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=184242.0;attach=217497;image)
This guy was a damn hard worker in the gym
-
Cliff Koons was great!!
Jeff King,Chris Aceto,Rich Roy,and Joe Gomes used to train at my gym.............good old days with no primadonna shit.
-
Cliff Koons was great!!
Jeff King,Chris Aceto,Rich Roy,and Joe Gomes used to train at my gym.............good old days with no primadonna shit.
Jeff used to train here in St. Louis at George's gyms from time to time, the original Quadzilla.
-
Yup,when he left Springfield (Mass.) he moved to St. Louis.
He`s now a physical therapist or a chiropractor in Greenfield Mass.
weighs a lean 200 pounds or so....still trains but just to stay in shape.
-
Yup,when he left Springfield (Mass.) he moved to St. Louis.
He`s now a physical therapist or a chiropractor in Greenfield Mass.
weighs a lean 200 pounds or so....still trains but just to stay in shape.
he's unreal, i'd have literally paid to see him train, Tony Pearson, Waller and some of the other guys used to train at Turner's places, George was big here in St. Louis for awhile.
-
You bitches are way off!! King Brent Harvey wins hands down!!
-
hell yeah Rich was a maniac, brings me back to when i fist got interested in bb'ing around 85-86 and looking through the old Flex's with him, Haney, Strydom, Christian, Bertil, etc., awesome stuff, those guys back then flat out TRAINED.
You can definitely get into the "cheese" factor with articles like that.
But, there is something really rare and bad ass about workouts like that. When you hit that groove and really push yourself to your limit, it's nothing something that just happens. It's not something you can just do any time.
I've been all over the country. I've met people from everywhere. I studied the Holocaust in Poland for a semester in College. I've worked with one of the top cardiologists in the country. Of all the cool things I've been lucky to do, as lame as it sounds (and it is very lame) many of my most vivid memories are of training in various forms.
-
You can definitely get into the "cheese" factor with articles like that.
But, there is something really rare and bad ass about workouts like that. When you hit that groove and really push yourself to your limit, it's nothing something that just happens. It's not something you can just do any time.
I've been all over the country. I've met people from everywhere. I studied the Holocaust in Poland for a semester in College. I've worked with one of the top cardiologists in the country. Of all the cool things I've been lucky to do, as lame as it sounds (and it is very lame) many of my most vivid memories are of training in various forms.
all kidding aside ther are VERY VERY FEW guys who train as hard as you, you're a beast.
-
DORIAN YATES
The Hardest and Most Dense Bodybuilder Ever!
Everyone knows I have a reputation for training brutally hard, I mean very hard! (It is the only way to win a Mr. Olympia that is for sure, especially six). But hard training is not a be-all and end-all. It has to be the best, right training.
You must force muscle to grow, to adapt to higher work-loads. The basis is, for example, a set of barbell curls for 8-12 reps with a weight that you barely can make 8-reps. Once you make 12, you increase the weight so you go back to barely making 8-reps.
Your bottom line is that progressive overload forces muscle to grow but WITHOUT over-training or injuring yourself!
Remember though that the weight load doesn’t matter as long as you go to “failure” and use maximum intensity in reasonable form. (Then, you allow that muscle to recover and saturate it with DYA proteins in the interim)!
In Speed-Strength & Sport, the guys are lifters and they must do singles and doubles, maybe triples, to develop power and form but you are a bodybuilder and must also work for mass.
So, overload is a must. Now I do forced reps. This is an advanced training technique to extend my sets, to work harder! For instance, for incline barbell presses, I fail at 8, but I have my spotter assist “a bit” to help me make 2 more reps (forced reps).
I also use what is called “rest-pause” Let’s say I am doing a set of seated dumbbell presses and I fail at 8 with 2 more forced reps. At that point, I rest ONLY 10 seconds in order to regain some strength. Then I’ll do another rep. I’ll rest another 10 seconds and do another and a final rep. You can use rest-pause with a partner and forced reps by yourself!
Forced reps are “positive work” but I also used negative work to go ‘beyond failure’. I do 8 reps in the triceps pushdown and my partner assists me on 2 forced reps.
Then my partner helped me raise the stack until my arms were in the fully extended near-lockout position. Once here, I lowered, fought and resisted the weight down! This double stressed the muscle big-time. However, I only used this on very select exercises, not squats!
I like extended sets. Say, you are doing seated dumbbell curls. I’ll drop the dumbbells at the point of failure at 8 reps and 2 forced -- and pick up a lighter pair and do another 2-3 reps. This is intensity past the point of failure.
If forced reps prove too tough or are impractical, try partials. Once you reach failure, say, doing dumbbell laterals, you can continue to move the dumbbell’s up but you’ll not be able to make full reps. It might be 3/4 or 1/2 reps then less. Finally you should not be able to move them at all. This fries your muscle!
When you hit a period of no gain on a muscle, try pre-exhaustion. Pre-exhaust your pectoral (chest) muscles working its prime mover function (horizontal abduction).
Do a set of cable flyes to failure. Then, immediately go to an exercise which works the muscle again, but uses an assisting muscle. In this case, bench presses.
The cable flyes blast your pecs but now benches utilize also your triceps and delts so you work your pectorals again! I really like pre-exhaust on large body parts like thighs and back. When working thighs, I do 3 sets of leg extensions to failure and then do leg presses.
Most bodybuilders don’t do it this way and do leg presses or squats first as they’ve learned from lifters but they want strength not size. So I can’t use as much weight as I usually can in leg presses. This also saves my joints!
I kept my sets rather low because I trained so intense! I never did more than five sets for an exercise counting warm-ups, even as a beginner. Over the years, I began to do a “one-all-out-main set” for each exercise, following 2 warm-up sets, so 3 sets in total.
But I must say, it took me almost 10 years to learn the nuances of bodybuilding, to understand what really worked best for me. I think beginners need a couple more sets to learn technique and to generate the necessary muscle pathways and of course, the older you get or the more injuries you have, the intensity one can train with in terms of a percent of maximum goes down. For example, one sprints until age 30 and jogs thereafter.
Beginners should not use forced or negative reps. I trained for 12 months before I tried a forced rep and only after two years of workouts did I begin to employ them regularly. For a beginner, going to failure generates enough muscular stress. The “newness” of your body to the rigors of weight-training guarantees the correct muscle-building response will occur. As you progress, you must choose the point at which you can honestly apply the one-main-set system.
HERE IS A DORIAN SET of INCLINE PRESSES:
Do 2-3 warm-up sets with 15 down to 8 reps. Then load up the bar with the maximum poundage for 8 reps to failure and get 2 forced reps. Then do a couple of negative reps or 2-3 rest-pause reps.
For anyone trying this one-set system, if you feel you can attempt a second set, then you couldn’t have been pulling out all the stops during the first set. Now there are many roads to Rome obviously since Lee Priest is pretty damn big and he does LOTS of sets, but I’ve never been a believer in volume work.
I think that one set with 100% intensity (sort of 8-13 reps or more movements) does the job. But one set of 1-3 reps would not build muscle size, you see. Bodybuilding is different than Olympic or powerlifting. It’s my contention that doing too many sets if they are high-intensity is over training and you will not recover.
I cannot stress enough, in all honesty, how important it is to use my DYA ProPeptide protein. All the top guys and women all over the world are using it, despite what they may or may not endorse. This is a fact.
I find it interesting that before I even really knew him, Jeff Everson and Planet Muscle, was the ONLY magazine smart and honest enough to rank DYA at the top, even though I was NOT an advertiser in his magazine! This says something about integrity. Now I do advertise because of this! His magazine is the only one with the reputation for accepting tested proteins and ads from companies who do not mislead consumers.
My DYA-ProPeptide formula is very high in REAL anti-catabolic micellar casein and the best whey complex for anabolism. It also has special probiotics for digestion and absorption.
If you are serious then you should be using it a minimum of 3-times each day.
-
it seems that each generation has the hardest training guy.
arnold
platz
gaspari
yates
coleman
now.......??
hardest ever?
i would have to say ronnie and dorian.
not many could keep up with ronnie, eventhough he didnt push himself as hard as yates.
not many could keep dorian's routines and strict form.
strict form and forced reps = brutal.
goes to show; two of the best are also two of the hardest.
-
Platz ... HANDS DOWN !! The Guy was a fucking MANIAC !!
-
Yup,when he left Springfield (Mass.) he moved to St. Louis.
He`s now a physical therapist or a chiropractor in Greenfield Mass.
weighs a lean 200 pounds or so....still trains but just to stay in shape.
How lean is lean? For 5'11, that is still decent size if he is under 10%.
-
Arnold was quoted saying that Casey Viator was the hardest training bb ever. "If I had to train like that I'd take up skiing", was the quote I believe.
-
How lean is lean? For 5'11, that is still decent size if he is under 10%.
225 pounds at 10% is more realistic, measured properly,Truly the only way to get a spot on bodyfat test is a hydrstactic test immersing you in water not exactly sure how it works but when i was at university my friend underwent the test and he measured 5%Arnold was quoted saying that Casey Viator was the hardest training bb ever. "If I had to train like that I'd take up skiing", was the quote I believe.
When i was on everything and lifted heavy Casey Viator would have destroyed me, i remember Arthur Jones and im sure Casey was a student of his.
-
CONT.
Even on humid, summer, 95-degree, N.J. days, I made my favorite body part my legs.
DRAGONSLAYER RIPPED THICK LEGS
I did so many varying forms of squats and so many sets you could not count them on an Abacus. In fact, as a 19 year old, I actually squatted to depth with 780 lbs. I was about 218 pounds and someone told me at that time it was close to a 220-pound class world record.
I could give a sh*t. I just liked the way it felt to load the weights on a squat bar and see and feel the bar bounce up and down. Later on, when I was in California, I did work out in the same gym as Dr. Squat Hatfield as he was moving in on the 1,000-pound squat and with Cory Everson, along with my partner Lee Haney. I mention Cory because she was one tough cookie, too, and one day on her double split, she actually did 87 sets of legs!
At any rate while still in N.J., my gym owner had to buy special bars because I bent so many of them. Tom Platz was famous for 315 pounds for 50 reps. Well, I did 30 reps once with 495 pounds. I remember fantasizing that I was a Barbarian warrior and that if I could not finish my workout my family and I would be executed.
A guy named David Sinott was my training partner. Today he trains celebrities like Demi Moore. (Now you know who keeps that 40-year-old, Charlie’s Angel babe seducing 25 year olds.) I had one goal on leg day and that was to make David lose his stomach contents.
We started the workout with pre-exhaust, direct, thigh leg extensions. I warmed up my quads with 200 lbs. and continuously increased the weights until I got the stack of 350 lbs. with jacked-intensity drop sets, the last two sets.
I would do three drop sets (also called extended sets) and on the last drop set I would go beyond sanity into the world of negatives. When I got to the top of the extension I would hold the weight up and Dave would push on my shins to get the weight down. I would hold it as hard as I could and he would push with all his strength to the bottom. By the end of this, my legs were on fire and severely pumped (and so were his triceps).
Then I went to the 45-degree angle leg press. This was one of my favorites because I could really load on the weights. I did a light set of five, 45-lb. plates on each side for 15 reps. I moved along for sets of 15 reps. On the last set I had 15, 45-lb. plates on EACH side (lots of sets) and Dave was sitting on top of the machine (another 200 pounds). That was 30 x 45 lbs. plus 200 lbs., or 15 reps with 1750 lbs. counting the carriage. After the 15 reps, Dave got off, stripped two plates, and I did another 12 reps. He took two more plates off each time and I’d crank out 12 or more reps.
I couldn’t even count the sets. I actually popped blood vessels in my eyes. They were bright, rose red. Dave would try to follow with somewhat less intensity and he would die a dozen deaths and lose his potassium in the garbage can, but at least his blood pressure was not 300/110.
By this time I was solo. I went to Smith machine squats. With this exercise I moved my feet forward to give my quads even more play. Since I was plenty warm I started with three, 45-lb. plates on each side, 15 reps. I increased the weight 45 pounds on each side until I got to six plates each side for 15 reps.
My next exercise was the reverse Smith machine lunge supersetted with sissy squats. I did three sets of 15 reps on each exercise and I made it as high as two, 45-lb. plates on the lunges. I would hold a 45-lb. plate on my chest for the sissies. My eyes and thighs were even redder and my thighs were like Mount St, Helens, (not the big-breasted girl doing lap dances, but that Volcano in Washington State).
I took a breather for 10 minutes and drank a half gallon of water. I wore skimpy tight Hotskin shorts so I could see my thighs get huge, veiny and ripped to the femur. I was almost capillary comatose!
Now, Dave had regained some cell equilibrium and came back to join me for hamstring hell. I started with lying leg curls. We did five sets and on the last set I used the stack and did three drop sets. From there we did negatives. I would hold my legs straight out and Dave would pull my ankles downward while I tried to prevent him from doing it.
I was about done. At the end, I did stiff-leg deadlifts, super strict and slow four sets of 15 reps with 225 lbs. God that was it. I was totally cooked and felt my legs throbbing.
Those leg days bring back chills. Those leg workouts pushed me to be the second best male bodybuilder in the IFFB pro ranks at the time. I was Lee Haney’s training partner, but I never beat him. You can talk to anyone from those days. Relative to those before and his then contemporaries, Lee was the greatest who ever lived. Did I have Lee’s genetic size, bone structure and shape? No way, not even close. This guy was an athlete (and gentleman).
But I can say this and Lee would agree – no one, not anyone, ever out-trained me. No one had more gut-busting intensity than I did, especially on legs! I was, after all, the Dragonslayer (Jeff Everson named me that in 1987) and this is the kind of leg workout you must do! Now go get it on!
I felt sick reading this Hardcore
-
Arnold was quoted saying that Casey Viator was the hardest training bb ever. "If I had to train like that I'd take up skiing", was the quote I believe.
You are correct ... that was the Quote. :)
-
225 pounds at 10% is more realistic, measured properly,Truly the only way to get a spot on bodyfat test is a hydrstactic test immersing you in water not exactly sure how it works but when i was at university my friend underwent the test and he measured 5%When i was on everything and lifted heavy Casey Viator would have destroyed me, i remember Arthur Jones and im sure Casey was a student of his.
Yes, he was ... do you remember the " Colorado Experiment " ?
-
Yes, he was ... do you remember the " Colorado Experiment " ?
I cry when i think how much improved Sergio Oliva could have become if he stayed with Arthur
-
I cry when i think how much improved Sergio Oliva could have become if he stayed with Arthur
Me too ... I believe Sergio even said ( this is not Verbatim, although close ), " I experienced amazing results with Arthur ... I couldn't believe how big I was ... I remember looking waking up one Morning, looking into the Mirror and thinking to myself, " HOLY SHIT, I'M HUGE ! " ". Again, something close to this is what he said ... so, I too, cry when I think about how big Sergio could have been if he had stayed with Arthur. :'(
-
it seems that each generation has the hardest training guy.
arnold
platz
gaspari
yates
coleman
now.......??
hardest ever?
i would have to say ronnie and dorian.
not many could keep up with ronnie, eventhough he didnt push himself as hard as yates.
not many could keep dorian's routines and strict form.
strict form and forced reps = brutal.
goes to show; two of the best are also two of the hardest.
That's hitting the nail on the head, could not agree more! :)
-
wes
i read the article by defendis on the link you provided.
very interesting read but i have no doubt it was embellished as oldtimers with big egos tend to do. they hate to think someone could be better than they were, even with modern technological and pharmaceutical enhancements, so they exaggerate and romanticise.
defendis let slip a contradiction which i found amusing. when he was talking about his first day at michalik's gym he related how there was a plaque on the wall with words to the effect of 'upping the dosage' and a syringe for a pen. then later he romanticises how, back in his day bbers trained like animals and only took minimal doses of steroids for recovery purposes. ::)
i've read that michalik was a sadistic egomaniac and a bully, which is probably consistant with the article. also read that he treated his wife in much the same fashion, only with more violence. the guy definitely had some screws loose.
it's a shame articles like these are so sensationalized or that there is never a totally unbiased account of the way these guys trained, because it would have been very more interesting to read that.
apparently michalik was supposed to be in pumping iron and, for some reason, was completely cut out of the documenatry. do you know why? definitely would have been cool to have the pumping iron crew show us the real hardcore bbers at steve's gym.
-
would be interesting to know how far dorian and ronnie would have gone if they didnt train so hard
-
Hardest trainer?
Without question the answer is get bigs own , beloved Vince Melvin Goodrum.
So it shall be said, so it shall be written, so it shall be law!
-
it's a shame articles like these are so sensationalized or that there is never a totally unbiased account of the way these guys trained, because it would have been very more interesting to read that.
It's a shame many champions never taped their workouts for posterity. I'd pay good money for footage of Platz training in his prime, for example.
Even a modern bb like Yates only left 1 workout tape. A shame.
-
It's a shame many champions never taped their workouts for posterity. I'd pay good money for footage of Platz training in his prime, for example.
Even a modern bb like Yates only left 1 workout tape. A shame.
Fortunately
Nasser El Sonbaty put out no less than SEVEN workout tapes, kinda makes up for the ones missing from Platz and Yates :)
-
It's a shame many champions never taped their workouts for posterity. I'd pay good money for footage of Platz training in his prime, for example.
Even a modern bb like Yates only left 1 workout tape. A shame.
i will believe unbiased reports from several witnesses of a truly high intensity workout. he's been mentioned on this thread but i have no doubt the account of casey viator's hit session where he performed non-stop, leg extensions with entire nautilus stack - 750lb leg presses (approx 25 reps) - 500 + lb ass to the grass squats 11 reps. the reason i can believe it is because so many unbiased people witnessed it eg, arnold and sergio were both there and gave the exact same account as arthur jones and others. thing is, it was not in sergio or arnold's interest to give an account of a man that completely annihilated anything they had ever been able to do in the gym. the fact that sergio did the same workout but much less weight and actually passed out by the time he got to the squats and couldn't complete the reps, even when the weight was reduced to 135lbs (in fairness, this was very early on in oliva's time spent with jones.
i also believe it because casey only had to do this giant set once which makes perfect sense ie knowing that he only had to do one set of each and with his intensity and energy fresh (he was also fond of pre workout methamphetamines as most hit guys were back then) he trained like an animal going absolutely balls out ie you can train long or hard, you can't do both (despite what Milos says ::)).
the weights casey was using for the reps (and we're not talking 1" rom like so many of these 'hard trainers' have proven on youtube - evidence is a beautiful tool for the deluded), the sequence and zero rest in between (apparently he was carried to each apparatus with jones yelling his ear off the whole time) pushed casey's heart rate up to 250 bpm by the end of the sequence (recorded by jones for posterity) which would indicate that he truly was going balls out and it wouldn't have been possible to do another giant set, never mind 50 more.
arthur jones belaboured the point that if you had enough energy to do a second set, you didn't train hard enough in the first and imo he was dead right.
probably the easiest way of explaining this is to look at running sprints. i could have a top flight competitor train sprints with brief rests in between, say 1 minute, hell make it 2, for 10 100 metre intervals.
i could scream at this man at the top of my lungs and make threats, etc and, there is no doubt, the man will be absolutely convinced he's training balls out. i could even be convinced, but i guarantee you 100% that come race day against the top competitors in the world, that man will run the 100 much faster than he did during any one of those 10 intervals (including the 1st). why? because he knows conciously and subconciously he only has one sprint to run and he must do his best. not what he or i absolutely believes is his best, but his B E S T.
ever seen a reporter try to talk to a maurice green after the gold medal race at the olympics? try not even being able to form a sentence for about 10 minutes. then ask him to run it again in under 10 seconds. he'll tell you to go take a flying fuck. now hold a gun to his head and tell him to do it or him and his family are dead. guess what? you still won't get your sub 10 seconds. why? refer above.
you see, this is a physiological fact and one that i still can't believe i was arguing with Milos about around the time of his first seminar. the 'mind' was telling me that it was possible to sprint a marathon and that i was simply 'weak minded' not to believe him. all i can say is, just as well for Milos he and his boys take a lot of drugs, because his training theories are seriously flawed.
this is also why i take the michaliks, milos' and defendis' of the world with a grain of salt. there's one and only one only thing that correlates between their machismo fuelled insanity sessions and their results and that's the sign on the wall that says, 'up the dosage'.
-
great post beast
-
not even close....
coleman..
dorian reminds me of those guys that come in the gym and try to look intense...
or try to look hardcore...
coleman is focused but his demeaner covers..
anyone watch bfto 2003 did you notice coleman eatin before traing as he was walking through the gym door he turned back and look at a flex magazine article with him gunter and culter... 3 m4n and a sandow thats when everyone was sayin coleman was done when gunter "beat" ::) him at the gnc 2002
i can tell he looked at the article to motivate himself even more ..
ive watched blood and guts and while it is good the hardcore is too fake reminds me of branch warrens dvd..
try to look hard and intimidating.. and all that... can see through that a mile away
anyway
coleman by a country mile.. his videos speak for themselves..
make everybody else look like little girls..
-
not even close....
coleman..
dorian reminds me of those guys that come in the gym and try to look intense...
or try to look hardcore...
coleman is focused but his demeaner covers..
anyone watch bfto 2003 did you notice coleman eatin before traing as he was walking through the gym door he turned back and look at a flex magazine article with him gunter and culter... 3 m4n and a sandow thats when everyone was sayin coleman was done when gunter "beat" ::) him at the gnc 2002
i can tell he looked at the article to motivate himself even more ..
ive watched blood and guts and while it is good the hardcore is too fake reminds me of branch warrens dvd..
try to look hard and intimidating.. and all that... can see through that a mile away
anyway
coleman by a country mile.. his videos speak for themselves..
make everybody else look like little girls..
Uh, no kid.
Yates was training like that long before that video came out and long before he first competed in the Mr. Olympia. There was nothing fake or wannabe about Yates' training. Who do you think he was there to impress? ::) He was down in his own basement gym training with no one else there. You seriously need to get off of Coleman's nuts. There's no doubt Coleman trained hardcore. But Yates was more hardcore. He did everything to the T. He pushed his body farther than any BB has ever done. Coleman's physique was more a result of Chad Nicholls than anything else.
-
Uh, no kid.
Yates was training like that long before that video came out and long before he first competed in the Mr. Olympia. There was nothing fake or wannabe about Yates' training. Who do you think he was there to impress? ::) He was down in his own basement gym training with no one else there. You seriously need to get off of Coleman's nuts. There's no doubt Coleman trained hardcore. But Yates was more hardcore. He did everything to the T. He pushed his body farther than any BB has ever done. Coleman's physique was more a result of Chad Nicholls than anything else.
ok first thing first...
im not a kid...
i dont care how long yates was training... ive seen him train on video... and from what i see he is cool.. but nowhere near coleman....
i am a verrrry serious trainer myself... yates reminds me of those guys.. who come to the gym with a big huge bag and the xxxl top and the chalk for the look.. just stating my opinion..
soleman just goes in does his thing doesnt have to try to look overy serious.. and still out lifts everyone by a country mile...
also the chad thing that point is moot
but a point yu might want to consider..
coleman is also a genetic freak...
moreso than yates... by far..
thats why he can appear jovial and out lift every pro ...
while we they are staring at the ground not talkin burning with intensity..
its all about genetics.. i guarantee you ates took sterids at a way yunger age than coleman..
dobson has said on video colmans arms were 20 inches... when he walked into his gym and coleman wasnt on the juice then.. can we same the same for yates... ???
exactly so dont even bring up the chemical argument..
also what i say about the intensity of them both is not fact that is my opinion.. i respect yours you respect mine..
cheers
mesi
-
ok first thing first...
im not a kid...
i dont care how long yates was training... ive seen him train on video... and from what i see he is cool.. but nowhere near coleman....
i am a verrrry serious trainer myself... yates reminds me of those guys.. who come to the gym with a big huge bag and the xxxl top and the chalk for the look.. just stating my opinion..
soleman just goes in does his thing doesnt have to try to look overy serious.. and still out lifts everyone by a country mile...
also the chad thing that point is moot
but a point yu might want to consider..
coleman is also a genetic freak...
moreso than yates... by far..
thats why he can appear jovial and out lift every pro ...
while we they are staring at the ground not talkin burning with intensity..
its all about genetics.. i guarantee you ates took sterids at a way yunger age than coleman..
dobson has said on video colmans arms were 20 inches... when he walked into his gym and coleman wasnt on the juice then.. can we same the same for yates... ???
exactly so dont even bring up the chemical argument..
also what i say about the intensity of them both is not fact that is my opinion.. i respect yours you respect mine..
cheers
mesi
Actually, I can guarantee you Coleman was on juice well before Yates.
Coleman was juicing as a middle linebacker at Grambling University. Yates at age 21 was still a skinny member of the Skins.
Oh, and Brian said he was "natural" on his interview recently. Of course, he said until 1998. By that he means Coleman didn't use insulin and HGH ;)
Also, what does the "look" have anything to do with it?
If Yates was trying to be hardcore he would have trained like Coleman, sloppy form and throwing around weights far too heavy.
You're right about the genetics though.....that's proves why Yates was a harder training BB. He had less to work with and had to work harder to get to the top. Coleman was nothing great until he got a drug guru.
-
coleman was always great but overlooked...
i have never seen anything special about yates phisique bar the back...
even on drugs...
without drugs coleman could have a impressive phsique could yates? not to me
so go figure
coleman said on video brian offered him free membership etc to encourage him to be a bber
but he didnt want to be a bber because he knew that involved taking steroids.....
thats on his first video.. so he wasnt taking steroids at the time....
dont speculate
-
i have never seen anything special about yates phisique bar the back...
Just as I suspected. The bias is at play as usual.
Your perception of the physique has nothing to do with the matter of this thread. Yates was more hardcore. Period.
-
coleman was always great but overlooked...
i have never seen anything special about yates phisique bar the back...
even on drugs...
without drugs coleman could have a impressive phsique could yates? not to me
so go figure
coleman said on video brian offered him free membership etc to encourage him to be a bber
but he didnt want to be a bber because he knew that involved taking steroids.....
thats on his first video.. so he wasnt taking steroids at the time....
dont speculate
no offense Meso but if you look at the early pictures of Yates after just a couple of years training drug free his physique resembles the way yours looks now, he looked great then like you do.
-
so my opinion means im biased.. that would suggest you are biased too no...
and i guess because you said yates is more hardcore period
the period on the end makes the statement more true??
;D ;D
ok we are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one...
you think yates... is more hardcore... i can live with that
..
and i think ronnies training made yates look like a girl.. ;)
-
no offense Meso but if you look at the early pictures of Yates after just a couple of years training drug free his physique resembles the way yours looks now, he looked great then like you do.
naw man
uh uh..nothing close for one...
arms and chest
mr arms are a pumped 19..
what were yates...
what ere they even on stage i estimate 20 21.. and thats after juicing like 10 men
ive got a tiny waiste...
...
me and yate phsique of early have nothing in common...
another thing i respected about yates phsique was his condition
looked rock dense
-
so my opinion means im biased.. that would suggest you are biased too no...
and i guess because you said yates is more hardcore period
the period on the end makes the statement more true??
;D ;D
ok we are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one...
you think yates... is more hardcore... i can live with that
..
and i think ronnies training made yates look like a girl.. ;)
Ronnie is absolutely more hardcore than Yates no doubt about it, in my opinion more weight with good form on every exercise=more hardcore, period.
-
This is hardcore training
(http://athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_019.jpg)
-
form is objective people have diff bodies and diff things work for them
eg dorian never used to squat??
he did rack deadlifts...
and look at his form on bbr rows more like a standing shrug...
those things work for him.. not locking out worked for coleman.. and jay and 70% of bbers if you wath the dvd's they never lock out.... and they have built their phsiques on that..
when you have so small guy in the gym doing what he thinks is proper form and locking out.. go figure?
-
This is hardcore training
(http://athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_019.jpg)
damn right it is but to say it's more intense than Ronnie deep front squatting 585 isn't true.
-
150lb DB shoulder press at a bodyweight 50lbs less than Coleman in CoR only doing 160s.
(http://athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_021.jpg)
-
This is hardcore training
(http://athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_019.jpg)
why because the picture is black and white and he has a headband on...
i legpress...
so do you...
take a picture is it not hardcore too...
...
-
With Coleman's form, Yates would have BB row 585lbs
(http://athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_020.jpg)
-
why because the picture is black and white and he has a headband on...
i legpress...
so do you...
take a picture is it not hardcore too...
...
Nope, Yates was more hardcore than Coleman b/c Yates went to utter physical failure AND BEYOND. From blood and guts video you can just feel Yates' pain when he is pushed beyond his limit on the leg extension, for example.
-
150lb DB shoulder press at a bodyweight 50lbs less than Coleman in CoR only doing 160s.
(http://athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_021.jpg)
so if i took a picture of me doing 120's at a bodyweight of 200 i can do that
would i be more hardcore than dorian
please answer that
::)
man please y'all believe the hype too much...
anyway i;ll leave y'all to it... i have a mind of my own and i use it ...
no one can tell me who is hardcore... or snap some black an white pics and say yeah he was the most hardcore
im not plugged into the matrix.... like a lot are...
i leave you all to it
-
so if i took a picture of me doing 120's at a bodyweight of 200 i can do that
would i be more hardcore than dorian
please answer that
::)
man please y'all believe the hype too much...
anyway i;ll leave y'all to it... i have a mind of my own and i use it ...
no one can tell me who is hardcore... or snap some black an white pics and say yeah he was the most hardcore
im not plugged into the matrix.... like a lot are...
i leave you all to it
Your main premise seems to be the amount of weight Coleman lifted and that some how his look and nonchalant actions made him more "hardcore" than Yates.
My argument is that Yates is more hardcore because he pushed his body to and beyond his physical limits.
Going by your argument, Levrone trained chest more hardcore than Coleman becuase he bench pressed more :P
-
get your facts straight they both benched the same thing.... and if your going that route coleman is the more hardcore he did 12 reps with 200 remember
who told u thta coleman doesnt push his self to the limit... 200's were the heaviest in his gym.. what was he supposed to do each rep at slow bionic speed makin it harder so he could only get 6 reps
or is he not hardcore because he doesnt grimace or wear a headband like yates??
or stare at the ground and nothing else between sets...
;D ;D ;D
your are funny..
total respect though you stick to your beliefs and i shall stick to mine... we can all still peacefully coexist
8) 8)
-
get your facts straight they both benched the same thing.... and if your going that route coleman is the more hardcore he did 12 reps with 200 remember
who told u thta coleman doesnt push his self to the limit... 200's were the heaviest in his gym.. what was he supposed to do each rep at slow bionic speed makin it harder so he could only get 6 reps
or is he not hardcore because he doesnt grimace or wear a headband like yates??
or stare at the ground and nothing else between sets...
;D ;D ;D
your are funny..
total respect though you stick to your beliefs and i shall stick to mine... we can all still peacefully coexist
8) 8)
Actually, Coleman did 495 for 5 reps and Levrone did 500 on the M3 video for 4 reps, get your facts straight :P
And yes, we will co-exist, you with your belief and me with mine. But Yates is still more hardcore :D
-
thought they were both 5 plates...
?
on cor.. coleman said repeatedly he was suffereing with a bad shoulder.. and kept prodding it with a pin..
-
Bow to Dorian!
-
thought they were both 5 plates...
?
on cor.. coleman said repeatedly he was suffereing with a bad shoulder.. and kept prodding it with a pin..
haha.....owned ;D
Coleman may have had a bad shoulder, but he absolutely dwarfed Levrone in size. Levrone's benching at 300lbs would have been insane.
-
Team Yates, bitches!
Except now that he's retired it's...
Team Wolf, bitches!
But when referring to the 90s, it's...
Team Yates, bitches!
-
so if he owned coleman as you say.. what did he do to to yates? what did yates press on blood and guts?? :-\
that point is moot anyway..... overall.. levrone couldnt train with coleman...
heck gunter beat him on back in a training shoot.. levrone admited that too
overall coleman is the strongest
i dont believe in the whole bodyweight benchin thing .. im light and i outpress a lotta guys... waaay heavier than me... so again moot point fact is
so i still say coleman all the way for hardcore and no fanny pack or headband or grimace or big with tops marked with xxxl or lookin atthe floor between sets is gonna change my mind
so stalemate england1
8)
-
so if he owned coleman as you say.. what did he do to to yates? what did yates press on blood and guts?? :-\
that point is moot anyway..... overall.. levrone couldnt train with coleman...
heck gunter beat him on back in a training shoot.. levrone admited that too
overall coleman is the strongest
i dont believe in the whole bodyweight benchin thing .. im light and i outpress a lotta guys... waaay heavier than me... so again moot point fact is
so i still say coleman all the way for hardcore and no fanny pack or headband or grimace or big with tops marked with xxxl or lookin atthe floor between sets is gonna change my mind
so stalemate england1
8)
Yates claimed to bench "more than" 500 lbs for reps in his first book. I have no reason to believe he was lying.
And why would you not believe the whole bodyweight benching thing? Are you denying that you would bench more at a higher bodyweight? Why is it that the strongest powerlifters are always the heaviest?
-
With Coleman's form, Yates would have BB row 585lbs
(http://athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_020.jpg)
The famous Yates rows....very effective. :o
-
Dorian inclined 425 for 6 on Blood and Guts, it was a very low incline bench though, lowest barbell incline i've ever seen.
-
Yates claimed to bench "more than" 500 lbs for reps in his first book. I have no reason to believe he was lying.
And why would you not believe the whole bodyweight benching thing? Are you denying that you would bench more at a higher bodyweight? Why is it that the strongest powerlifters are always the heaviest?
dont know... i guess ill find out when i get there
-
I would say Coleman but all time hardest training bodybuilder from the old school era would be Arnold.
-
mesomorph, you're riding coleman's nuts and your objectivity is akin to billybobs.
you are so blinded by coleman's nut sack that you don't even see your own hypocrisy ie when you referred to 'big bad yates types' looking hard with their 'chalk', etc etc.
i can guarantee you coleman used more chalk and other training aids (not talking supps here as i have no idea what these guys used and how much) than yates ever did (just take another look at the video evidence without the coleman nut blinders on) and, i suppose, screaming out, 'LIGHT WEIGHT!' and 'NOTHING BUT A PEANUT!' while looking around to see who's watching is not attention seeking? ::) hell, even in branch's squat video you can hear coleman screaming in the background. ;D
as my posts tend to reveal, i'm a coleman fan, but objectivity allows intelligence to a debate (see hulkster thread for what happens if objectivity is lost).
-
Actually, Coleman did 495 for 5 reps and Levrone did 500 on the M3 video for 4 reps, get your facts straight :P
And yes, we will co-exist, you with your belief and me with mine. But Yates is still more hardcore :D
why is yates more hardcore...because the black and white video and boots and yelling....
-
why is yates more hardcore...because the black and white video and boots and yelling....
i don't believe that yelling fascilitates a more hadcore environment but coleman has done his fair share of black and white vids and a lot more yelling. actually, yates has always been pretty darn quiet in every clip i've seen of him.
having said that, it's obvious that some guys seem to need to yell to get motivated to lift big weights and, i guess, when these guys actually do succeed in lifting obnoxious weight, who the fuck am i to say it's not necessary. it's not my thing, but if it works for them, good on them.
when a guy's screaming his box off squatting 220 and stopping his set when most people are just getting into it, i tend to think wtf?
i've only ever seen levrone do pushing exercises ie bench, smith militarys, etc and i was impressed by his focus (there was nothing pretentious or flamboyant that i could see), technique and strength but, tbh, the real test of a 'hard trainer' for me is when it comes around to squats/deads/rows. that's when you really see the men from the coaches.
-
i don't belieeve that yelling fascilitates a more hadcore environment but coleman has done his fair share of black and white vids and a lot more yelling. actually, yates has always been pretty darn quiet in every clip i've seen of him.
having said that, it's obvious that some guys seem to need to yell to get motivated to lift big weights and, i guess, when these guys actually do succeed in lifting obnoxious weight, who the fuck am i to say it's not necessary. it's not my thing, but if it works for them, good on them.
when a guy's screaming his box off squatting 220 and stopping his set when most people are just getting into it, i tend to think wtf?
i've only ever seen levrone do pushing exercises ie bench, smith militarys, etc and i was impressed by his focus (there was nothing pretentious or flamboyant that i could see), technique and strength but, tbh, the real test of a 'hard trainer' for me is when it comes around to squats/deads/rows. that's when you really see the men from the coaches.
totally agree with you here.
-
being stronger than somene doenst mean they train harder than them. For example say some one was squatting 225 for six reps but they pushed themselves really hard to get those 6 reps, gave it all they had. Somone else walks in and does 315 for 10 reps and did it pretty easily but thats all he did. Does that mean he trained harder because he used more weight?
-
being stronger than somene doenst mean they train harder than them. For example say some one was squatting 225 for six reps but they pushed themselves really hard to get those 6 reps, gave it all they had. Somone else walks in and does 315 for 10 reps and did it pretty easily but thats all he did. Does that mean he trained harder because he used more weight?
yes it does, more weight ALWAYS equals harder training.
-
yes it does, more weight ALWAYS equals harder training.
does form matter?
-
does form matter?
yes, should have said more weight with good to decent form.
-
platz,dorian,barbarian twins,mike quinn
in that order..
-
Dorian.
Without a shadow of a doubt (no cheesy pun intended)
Watched him train last week in Temple. His son Lewis was also there training with someone else adn he's following in his fathers footsteps in terms of intensity and drive.
-
Arguing about who is more hardcore? A bit silly. :D
I bought Yates tape when it came out and have to admit it wasn't as 'intense' as I had expected. I had expected something more, not just going to failure. And some lifts were assisted by his partner before he 'failed' and then racked. I hadn't seen many pros train on tape before so having read Flex mag articles I believed their training was really something out of this world.
But now, many years later, what impresses me about the way Yates trained was the precision. Each movement executed with good form. He really seemed very conscious of his body and movements, unlike someone like Coleman whose movements seemed haphazard at times. Yates was like a machine. :D Even Yates' posing was very precise, whereas Coleman's routines seemed like they were made up on the spot.
Meso, when Coleman first yelled 'light weight' it seemed genuine. In the other videos, not so much. Rehearsed. Even worse are guys like Branch Warren yelling the same. Really, can't you make up your own phrases? :D
-
hidetada yamagishi
-
Coleman was nothing great until he got a drug guru.
agreed.
-
hidetada yamagishi
ok.
::)
-
interesting that both yates and ronnie trained different ways, but yet ended their careers with serious injuries.
however, yates was still the one of the best conditioned guys onstage, whereas coleman wasnt in 06 and 07. that's why he lost.
also, dorian injured his biceps - which were never a strong point, where as ronnie won most of his olympia wins (except 98,99, and 03) with his back and bi's.
once they went, game over for ronnie.
yates = tears biceps is the samething if ronnie tore his calf.
true, bi's are more important, but calves are visible in every pose.
-
interesting that both yates and ronnie trained different ways, but yet ended their careers with serious injuries.
however, yates was still the one of the best conditioned guys onstage, whereas coleman wasnt in 06 and 07. that's why he lost.
also, dorian injured his biceps - which were never a strong point, where as ronnie won most of his olympia wins (except 98,99, and 03) with his back and bi's.
once they went, game over for ronnie.
yates = tears biceps is the samething if ronnie tore his calf.
true, bi's are more important, but calves are visible in every pose.
whilst i accept your point of view, imo this subject is best discussed on the Hulkster thread.
-
whilst i accept your point of view, imo this subject is best discussed on the Hulkster thread.
indeed.
-
In terms of hard training, I think the cake goes to Jimmy Fuller. the guy would do up to 50 sets per bodypart taking each to failure at the range of 100 reps!
Besides him, I think the two hardest trainers are Dorian and Ronnie, albeit for vastly different resons. Coleman is stronger, but is sloppier in his technique and never takes sets to failure. Conversely, Dorian was not so strong except for a few back exercises like barbell row where he could hold his own with Coleman, but his form was super-strict and he took each and every set not merely to failure but past it.
I would say that, taking everyhing into consideration, they trained equally hard. However, nothing compares to Coleman doing 805 squats and deads for doubles a few weeks out from the Olympia. That is fuckin' nuts!
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
In terms of hard training, I think the cake goes to Jimmy Fuller. the guy would do up to 50 sets per bodypart taking each to failure at the range of 100 reps!
Besides him, I think the two hardest trainers are Dorian and Ronnie, albeit for vastly different resons. Coleman is stronger, but is sloppier in his technique and never takes sets to failure. Conversely, Dorian was not so strong except for a few back exercises like barbell row where he could hold his own with Coleman, but his form was super-strict and he took each and every set not merely to failure but past it.
I would say that, taking everyhing into consideration, they trained equally hard. However, nothing compares to Coleman doing 805 squats and deads for doubles a few weeks out from the Olympia. That is fuckin' nuts!
SUCKMYMUSCLE
i think you're referring to Johnny Fuller, but i don't know much about hiow he trained. to me, it's much more impressive to do the things that ronnie did pre-contest (as you pointed out) than doing 50 - 100 reps with a light weight. for one thing, it takes a lot of balls to do risk injury with the type of things ronnie did.
-
think people are making too much out of ronnie and dorians training videos.......who knows how they trained when they werent being filmed?
-
As for Ronnie and training bi's, where was the intensity there?? He said himself he just had to do a few sets and they grew no matter what.A few sets of 21s and sum preacher, hardly the hardest working bodybuilder
-
coleman was always great but overlooked...
i have never seen anything special about yates phisique bar the back...
even on drugs...
without drugs coleman could have a impressive phsique could yates? not to me
so go figure
coleman said on video brian offered him free membership etc to encourage him to be a bber
but he didnt want to be a bber because he knew that involved taking steroids.....
thats on his first video.. so he wasnt taking steroids at the time....
dont speculate
your black, of course you hate skin head yates and love backwoods ronnie
-
think people are making too much out of ronnie and dorians training videos.......who knows how they trained when they werent being filmed?
true, but you don't deadlift and squat 800 for 2 reps unless you've been working like that all along.
As for Ronnie and training bi's, where was the intensity there?? He said himself he just had to do a few sets and they grew no matter what.A few sets of 21s and sum preacher, hardly the hardest working bodybuilder
ronnie could have probably missed bis altogether and it wouldn't have changed a thing. in any case, arm training is just not that hard.
-
hidetada yamagishi
You're no slouch yourself, Milos. ;)
-
This is some pretty hard training here
-
wes
i read the article by defendis on the link you provided.
very interesting read but i have no doubt it was embellished as oldtimers with big egos tend to do. they hate to think someone could be better than they were, even with modern technological and pharmaceutical enhancements, so they exaggerate and romanticise.
defendis let slip a contradiction which i found amusing. when he was talking about his first day at michalik's gym he related how there was a plaque on the wall with words to the effect of 'upping the dosage' and a syringe for a pen. then later he romanticises how, back in his day bbers trained like animals and only took minimal doses of steroids for recovery purposes. ::)
i've read that michalik was a sadistic egomaniac and a bully, which is probably consistant with the article. also read that he treated his wife in much the same fashion, only with more violence. the guy definitely had some screws loose.
it's a shame articles like these are so sensationalized or that there is never a totally unbiased account of the way these guys trained, because it would have been very more interesting to read that.
apparently michalik was supposed to be in pumping iron and, for some reason, was completely cut out of the documenatry. do you know why? definitely would have been cool to have the pumping iron crew show us the real hardcore bbers at steve's gym.
Beast,I agree the article is probably at least 50 % fiction but it is intended to inspire people to train hard,hence the embellishment.
It is motivating!!
As far as the drugs go,from what I hear Michalik was a pretty big user even eating monkey brains to obtain GH..............don`t know if this is true but the story`s been around forever.
Have no clue about Michalik being in the movie PI,but he is featured in the book Pumping Iron which predates the film.
I have seen still pics of Steve training with big weights and looking like he`d been to hell and back.......drenched in sweat and grimacing in pain,but who knows if it`s all smoke and mirrors for the mags........somehow I doubt it though.
Lots of guys trained hard back in the day as lots do today................... .....maybe it`s my age but I think most trained harder than the pros of today.
Just my opinion !!
-
Beast,I agree the article is probably at least 50 % fiction but it is intended to inspire people to train hard,hence the embellishment.
It is motivating!!
As far as the drugs go,from what I hear Michalik was a pretty big user even eating monkey brains to obtain GH..............don`t know if this is true but the story`s been around forever.
Have no clue about Michalik being in the movie PI,but he is featured in the book Pumping Iron which predates the film.
I have seen still pics of Steve training with big weights and looking like he`d been to hell and back.......drenched in sweat and grimacing in pain,but who knows if it`s all smoke and mirrors for the mags........somehow I doubt it though.
Lots of guys trained hard back in the day as lots do today................... .....maybe it`s my age but I think most trained harder than the pros of today.
Just my opinion !!
thanks for the reply wes.
i have no doubt that these guys trained extremely hard, but i'm probably more of a factual type of person that's seen way too much 'embellishment' over the years. i've never been a fan boy type and if there is one thing i've learnt from sport and life it's that when a man overdoes the machismo bs, it's ALWAYS a cover up for insecurity. as much as i respect his straight forwardness, he is the personification of this stereotype.
it was a good article but i am somewhat biased because imo 'brevity is best'. not a hit disciple but i don't believe in wasting precious energy on bs either.
i'm always impressed by someone (male/female/young/old) that takes themselves out of their comfort zone and faces a worthy challenge. this, to me, defines courage. i don't care what sport you do or who you are, this is the only thing that impresses me, not machismo or egotistical bs.
-
We have all seen how Arnold trained watching Pumping Iron. Though he obvious trained very hard I don't think he matched the momentary intensity as a Platx, Yates or Mentzer. Meaning, Arnold didn't take a set as far as others. We got to see Yates in all his glory and I thought it was pretty impressive. He seemed to push himself harder and dig deeper than Arnold did. Unfortunately, we don't have much footage of Platz but stories of his ferocious intensity is legendary. Even Mr. HIT himself, Mike Mentzer, admitted that when watching Platz prepare for the 1981 Olympia (which either he or Padilla should have won marking the greatest injustice in the Olympia to date) that he trained like a man possessed. It bordered on scary. Our own Max_Rep can give a first hand account having watched Platz train. If I recall correctly, Max_Rep mentioned how it was not so much on squats (though he did take that lift to the extreme) but it was on the standing hack squats that was almost painful to watch. Platz would not only go ass to ankle deep but would push out his knees forward like with a sissy squat for added quad stretch and depth.
I did find some rare footage of Platz doing leg extensions but before you critcize his form and how much he makes his spotter work take note that this was shot at the end of his workout and he was just burning and grinding out the last set and last bit of muscle contraction his incredible quads could muster.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T8PWcGbAvMw&mode=related&search=
-
i think you're referring to Johnny Fuller
I stand corrected. I confused him for another guy named Jimmy Fuller. Sorry.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
We have all seen how Arnold trained watching Pumping Iron. Though he obvious trained very hard I don't think he matched the momentary intensity as a Platx, Yates or Mentzer. Meaning, Arnold didn't take a set as far as others. We got to see Yates in all his glory and I thought it was pretty impressive. He seemed to push himself harder and dig deeper than Arnold did. Unfortunately, we don't have much footage of Platz but stories of his ferocious intensity is legendary. Even Mr. HIT himself, Mike Mentzer, admitted that when watching Platz prepare for the 1981 Olympia (which either he or Padilla should have won marking the greatest injustice in the Olympia to date) that he trained like a man possessed. It bordered on scary. Our own Max_Rep can give a first hand account having watched Platz train. If I recall correctly, Max_Rep mentioned how it was not so much on squats (though he did take that lift to the extreme) but it was on the standing hack squats that was almost painful to watch. Platz would not only go ass to ankle deep but would push out his knees forward like with a sissy squat for added quad stretch and depth.
I did find some rare footage of Platz doing leg extensions but before you critcize his form and how much he makes his spotter work take note that this was shot at the end of his workout and he was just burning and grinding out the last set and last bit of muscle contraction his incredible quads could muster.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T8PWcGbAvMw&mode=related&search=
i hope i would never be so foolish as to question the leg training methods of a man that had leg development that was so far ahead of anything ever seen prior.
he set the standard and i have no doubt that, during the 80s, when it came around to leg day, the serious bbers were all thinking Tom Platz.
-
your black, of course you hate skin head yates and love backwoods ronnie
no guy...
i hate no one because of colour....
what i hate is
guys doing curls in the squat rack
8)
-
no guy...
i hate no one because of colour....
what i hate is
guys doing curls in the squat rack
8)
why the hate ???
fucking thing would get cobwebs on it otherwise. ;D
-
thanks for the reply wes.
i have no doubt that these guys trained extremely hard, but i'm probably more of a factual type of person that's seen way too much 'embellishment' over the years. i've never been a fan boy type and if there is one thing i've learnt from sport and life it's that when a man overdoes the machismo bs, it's ALWAYS a cover up for insecurity. as much as i respect his straight forwardness, he is the personification of this stereotype.
it was a good article but i am somewhat biased because imo 'brevity is best'. not a hit disciple but i don't believe in wasting precious energy on bs either.
i'm always impressed by someone (male/female/young/old) that takes themselves out of their comfort zone and faces a worthy challenge. this, to me, defines courage. i don't care what sport you do or who you are, this is the only thing that impresses me, not machismo or egotistical bs.
Agreed on all counts.
-
why the hate ???
fucking thing would get cobwebs on it otherwise. ;D
that my friend is quite true
;D
-
Steve Michalik and John Defendis
-
The Bodybuilder that trained hardest, workout after workout was Steve Michalik. Never left anything in the tank.
-
Hi Steve!
-
i will believe unbiased reports from several witnesses of a truly high intensity workout. he's been mentioned on this thread but i have no doubt the account of casey viator's hit session where he performed non-stop, leg extensions with entire nautilus stack - 750lb leg presses (approx 25 reps) - 500 + lb ass to the grass squats 11 reps. the reason i can believe it is because so many unbiased people witnessed it eg, arnold and sergio were both there and gave the exact same account as arthur jones and others. thing is, it was not in sergio or arnold's interest to give an account of a man that completely annihilated anything they had ever been able to do in the gym. the fact that sergio did the same workout but much less weight and actually passed out by the time he got to the squats and couldn't complete the reps, even when the weight was reduced to 135lbs (in fairness, this was very early on in oliva's time spent with jones.
i also believe it because casey only had to do this giant set once which makes perfect sense ie knowing that he only had to do one set of each and with his intensity and energy fresh (he was also fond of pre workout methamphetamines as most hit guys were back then) he trained like an animal going absolutely balls out ie you can train long or hard, you can't do both (despite what Milos says ::)).
the weights casey was using for the reps (and we're not talking 1" rom like so many of these 'hard trainers' have proven on youtube - evidence is a beautiful tool for the deluded), the sequence and zero rest in between (apparently he was carried to each apparatus with jones yelling his ear off the whole time) pushed casey's heart rate up to 250 bpm by the end of the sequence (recorded by jones for posterity) which would indicate that he truly was going balls out and it wouldn't have been possible to do another giant set, never mind 50 more.
arthur jones belaboured the point that if you had enough energy to do a second set, you didn't train hard enough in the first and imo he was dead right.
probably the easiest way of explaining this is to look at running sprints. i could have a top flight competitor train sprints with brief rests in between, say 1 minute, hell make it 2, for 10 100 metre intervals.
i could scream at this man at the top of my lungs and make threats, etc and, there is no doubt, the man will be absolutely convinced he's training balls out. i could even be convinced, but i guarantee you 100% that come race day against the top competitors in the world, that man will run the 100 much faster than he did during any one of those 10 intervals (including the 1st). why? because he knows conciously and subconciously he only has one sprint to run and he must do his best. not what he or i absolutely believes is his best, but his B E S T.
ever seen a reporter try to talk to a maurice green after the gold medal race at the olympics? try not even being able to form a sentence for about 10 minutes. then ask him to run it again in under 10 seconds. he'll tell you to go take a flying fuck. now hold a gun to his head and tell him to do it or him and his family are dead. guess what? you still won't get your sub 10 seconds. why? refer above.
you see, this is a physiological fact and one that i still can't believe i was arguing with Milos about around the time of his first seminar. the 'mind' was telling me that it was possible to sprint a marathon and that i was simply 'weak minded' not to believe him. all i can say is, just as well for Milos he and his boys take a lot of drugs, because his training theories are seriously flawed.
this is also why i take the michaliks, milos' and defendis' of the world with a grain of salt. there's one and only one only thing that correlates between their machismo fuelled insanity sessions and their results and that's the sign on the wall that says, 'up the dosage'.
.. You are so right.. This is why Casey never again looked as good in his career as he did at the 1971' AAU 'Mr. America' ..
-
Today, I think Phil Heath trains harder than anyone else in the pro BBing circuit. I've seen him with 4 plates on the hammer strength bench press, moving it for 5 straight repetitions.
-
surprised no one's mentioned Branch Warren
-
Platz.
Dorian.
Warren.
Gaspari.
-
The Mentzers and Viator. Intensity for Immensity. That and all the crap they took had everything to do with their size and strength. But having seen them train I can attest to their ability to train like men possessed of a goal.
-
ARNOLD
-
Tom Platz. I wouldn't last one workout with him.
-
I have to go with Branch Warren...well, in his own mind anyway.
Bad ass stare....check.
Weight slamming....check.
Shit form....check.
Loud talking....check.
Back to bad ass stare.
He has it all. :D
-
hulkotron is a very hard charger in the iron asylum.
-
Robby Robinson
Rory Leidelmeyer
John Defendis
Steve Michalik
Sergio Oliva
I think contemporary bodybuilders train only for the camera. I don't see intensity in modern bodybuilding. Only drugs.
-
Ronnie? Yeah right. He was king of the half rep and had the most appalling form. So many adolescents watched his videos and then hit the gym, only to destroy their shoulders and lower backs.
Ronnie got shortness of breath when walking from bench to rack. Big dumbass Ronnie was a hardcore as a retard in a crop top!
I watched one of his DVDs and the pace, volume, and poundages were staggering. His form got sloppy in the later years, but was textbook in the earlier years. I think he got more results from deviating from the rules.
-
John Meadows.
Antoine Vaillant.
Shelby Starnes
And anyone that follows John and Shelby's training
styles to the letter.
-
Today, I think Phil Heath trains harder than anyone else in the pro BBing circuit. I've seen him with 4 plates on the hammer strength bench press, moving it for 5 straight repetitions.
Fuck that. I saw a vid of Cutler doing five (5!) reps of rows with 225 once. I had to watch it like 3 times to comprehend what I was seeing.
-
Arnold
Platz
Viator
Defendis
Michalik
Yates
All of the Above.
-
why you mention only big guys smaller guys train harder than bigger guys because they need to show they can hang with the bigger guys!!!
-
Intensity = Mentzers + Viator
Volume = Arnold
Legs = Platz
-
YATES...COLEMAN........C OLEMAN.....YATES.......
(http://www.honeysucklerose.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/homer-eating-popcorn-small-c7873.jpg)
-
150lb DB shoulder press at a bodyweight 50lbs less than Coleman in CoR only doing 160s.
(http://athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_021.jpg)
that's like 67 KG, and I can do 50KG natural for like 4 reps, so really this is unimpressive bollocks and doesn't mean anything
-
hulkotron is a very hard charger in the iron asylum.
Thanks my friend, yes I have a love affair with the iron.
-
that's like 67 KG, and I can do 50KG natural for like 4 reps, so really this is unimpressive bollocks and doesn't mean anything
::)
-
that jon meadows guy looks like a 60 year old luke wood
-
that's like 67 KG, and I can do 50KG natural for like 4 reps, so really this is unimpressive bollocks and doesn't mean anything
You mean your grind your shoulder joints into dust trying to force them up, whilest Dorian used a controlled movement , feeling his delts doing the work
-
You mean your grind your shoulder joints into dust trying to force them up, whilest Dorian used a controlled movement , feeling his delts doing the work
:D ;D
-
You mean your grind your shoulder joints into dust trying to force them up, whilest Dorian used a controlled movement , feeling his delts doing the work
Shit, you mean I am NOT supposed to grind them up? That would explain a lot of pain later in my life.
-
.. You are so right.. This is why Casey never again looked as good in his career as he did at the 1971' AAU 'Mr. America' ..
Viator looked his best in the early 80's when he was doing 15 plus sets a body part. He wasn't even close to being ripped in 1971.
-
The Bodybuilder that trained hardest, workout after workout was Steve Michalik. Never left anything in the tank.
He trained hard but used very moderate weights for the most part. Some of the training stuff I have read about him training is fiction.