Rand Paul looking to 2016 run.

[Roger Bacon]

ok, so how about the government say if you want to have access to public utilities, police, fire service etc... then you follow the laws against discrimination of sex, race, religion, etc..

I don't think that's a very good idea.

[Roger Bacon]

social cons had no influence on the presidential elections in 2008 and 2012.

However, "people like him" did.

All my county/state candidates won. 

I probably made a mistake in voting for Romney.  You were right in that this election should hopefully send a message to the GOP.

[Straw Man]

I don't think that's a very good idea.

why should the government provide services to your business or apartment building when you don't want to follow the laws designed to give all people equal access to your business

[Shockwave]

why should the government provide services to your business or apartment building when you don't want to follow the laws designed to give all people equal access to your business

Because those government services are designed for the benefit of all citizens (not to mention payed for by all the tax paying citizens). Privately owned business' are not.

[Roger Bacon]

why should the government provide services to your business or apartment building when you don't want to follow the laws designed to give all people equal access to your business

Because you're an American, and a tax payer.


People shouldn't discriminate, but it's no ones place to tell you the individual that you can't.


The civil rights act, although wrong may have been warranted.  The fair housing act was definitely a near sighted, frivolous, knee jerk reaction though IMO.

[Straw Man]

Because you're an American, and a tax payer.


People shouldn't discriminate, but it's no ones place to tell you the individual that you can't.


The civil rights act, although wrong may have been warranted.  The fair housing act was definitely a near sighted, frivolous, knee jerk reaction though IMO.

So you would like all the benefits,services and protection offered by the government yet you'd also like to deny that to others...at your disecretion

[Shockwave]

So you would like all the benefits,services and protection offered by the government yet you'd also like to deny that to others...at your disecretion

Your argument makes no sense. The government is funded by the people for the people. Private business is not.

[Straw Man]

Your argument makes no sense. The government is funded by the people for the people. Private business is not.

Private business utilize public services such as utilities, fire, police etc

[Roger Bacon]

So you would like all the benefits,services and protection offered by the government yet you'd also like to deny that to others...at your disecretion

I don't think government should ever discriminate, that should be criminal.  

[Shockwave]

Private business utilize public services such as utilities, fire, police etc

And this has to do with what? Those business' pay taxes into the system. Those systems are designed for everyone. Private business' are not. Again, your argument makes no sense.

[Straw Man]

And this has to do with what? Those business' pay taxes into the system. Those systems are designed for everyone. Private business' are not. Again, your argument makes no sense.

Why should those businesses be allowed to deny the rights of other citizens

[Shockwave]

Why should those businesses be allowed to deny the rights of other citizens

Because they're private business', and it's their choice on who to employ and who to do business with. The federal government, on the other hand, is paid for by ALL citizens and should be available to all citizens.
How are you not understanding this?

A better question, is why shouldn't these companies be able to decide who they want to work with? And who's rights are they denying by not hiring them, or not doing business with them? That makes no sense, no one is being denied any rights.

[Straw Man]

Because they're private business', and it's their choice on who to employ and who to do business with. The federal government, on the other hand, is paid for by ALL citizens and should be available to all citizens.
How are you not understanding this?

A better question, is why shouldn't these companies be able to decide who they want to work with? And who's rights are they denying by not hiring them, or not doing business with them? That makes no sense, no one is being denied any rights.

I understand it just fine. 
What if all the restaurants in a town decided to only serve white people
Arent taxes paid by blacks, asians, latinos, etc used to pay for services for which those businesses enjoy the benefits of?

[Shockwave]

I understand it just fine.  
What if all the restaurants in a town decided to only serve white people
Arent taxes paid by blacks, asians, latinos, etc used to pay for services for which those businesses enjoy the benefits of?

You're stretching now. How are they being denied the services that their taxes paid for? They aren't. Conversely, the restaurants paid into those services, so therefore they enjoy the benefits like everyone else.

You pay taxes into the same services I do, does that mean that Im somehow in the wrong for telling you that you can't drive my car? Or fuck my wife? Or have a key to my house?

Of course it doesn't. Those are privately owned items, and I don't have to let anyone do anything with them that I don't want to.
Now, if your money helped pay for that same car, helped keep it operating and keep the maintenance up, then It would be a different story.

[Straw Man]

You're stretching now. How are they being denied the services that their taxes paid for? They aren't. Conversely, the restaurants paid into those services, so therefore they enjoy the benefits like everyone else.

You pay taxes into the same services I do, does that mean that Im somehow in the wrong for telling you that you can't drive my car? Or fuck my wife? Or have a key to my house?

Of course it doesn't. Those are privately owned items, and I don't have to let anyone do anything with them that I don't want to.
Now, if your money helped pay for that same car, helped keep it operating and keep the maintenance up, then It would be a different story.

this is really not that complicated
the government creates a stable environment for a business to exist, provides utilities, protection via fire and police etc.. and those services are paid for by everyone.  That business does not have the right to turn around and deny access to certain citizens based on their personal discrimination.  The country has an interest in their citizens having equal access to a business (restaurant, store, housing) for which everyone pays the basic services which create the environment which allow that business to exist.   This hasn't really been an issue in for about the last 40 years and isn't a controversy or anything that anyone (except a few kooks like Rand Paul) even talks about

BTW - Rand has since walked back his comments so apparently (if we take him at his word) doesn't even believe his own point of view anymore

[Shockwave]

this is really not that complicated
the government creates a stable environment for a business to exist, provides utilities, protection via fire and police etc.. and those services are paid for by everyone.  That business does not have the right to turn around and deny access to certain citizens based on their personal discrimination.  The country has an interest in their citizens having equal access to a business (restaurant, store, housing) for which everyone pays the basic services which create the environment which allow that business to exist.   This hasn't really been an issue in for about the last 40 years and isn't a controversy or anything that anyone (except a few kooks like Rand Paul) even talks about

BTW - Rand has since walked back his comments so apparently (if we take him at his word) doesn't even believe his own point of view anymore

Clearly this argument isn't going to go anywhere. I don't believe that any private business should be required to do business with someone that they do not want to. They have no obligation, they aren't trampling anyone's rights. Those people are free to go do business elsewhere.

The government part is irrelevent and stupid IMHO - those services that you are commenting on are paid for by everyone, including the business owners and operators, so everyone gets access to them. That does not mean that everyone is entitled to access of a privately owned and operated business, just because they pay into the same system.

No one is being denied access to any rights or systems by not being allowed to engage in commerce with a privately owned company. You seem to think that because people pay for fire, police, etc, that somehow these business are indebted to the people. They are not, as said business' also pay into the system. Those people have no more entitlement to the companies business than those business' have right to the citizens homes.