Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Jaime on December 01, 2010, 01:29:28 PM
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Hey Gh15 what do you think of the weight guidlines that Steve Reeves put in to his book in regards to natural training?
Height Ideal Weight
5’5” 160lbs
5’6” 165lbs
5’7” 170lbs
5’8” 175lbs
5’9” 180lbs
5’10” 185lbs
5’11” 190lbs
6’0” 200lbs
6’1” 210lbs
6’2” 220lbs
6’3” 230lbs
6’4” 240lbs
6’5” 250lbs
So most guys off the juice and sitting at a reasonable lean weight are going to be around this ballpark? They knew this shit fifty odd years ago...
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why does it end at 6'5"? ???
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Hey Gh15 what do you think of the weight guidlines that Steve Reeves put in to his book in regards to natural training?
Height Ideal Weight
5’5” 160lbs
5’6” 165lbs
5’7” 170lbs
5’8” 175lbs
5’9” 180lbs
5’10” 185lbs
5’11” 190lbs
6’0” 200lbs
6’1” 210lbs
6’2” 220lbs
6’3” 230lbs
6’4” 240lbs
6’5” 250lbs
So most guys off the juice and sitting at a reasonable lean weight are going to be around this ballpark? They knew this shit fifty odd years ago...
According to GH-dumbass-15 Reeves was on steroids ::)
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why does it end at 6'5"? ???
Steve doesn't like lanky mofo's.
That and the progression is pretty clear, no....
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Steve doesn't like lanky mofo's.
That and the progression is pretty clear, no....
7 feet tall and 300 pounds 8)
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he wasnt on mega doses or anything of the sort,,he was experiementing with simple drug natural to the body called T E S T O S T E R O N A ,,
in regarding his weight guidlines,,pretty much on spot give or take 5lb,,remember bodybuilder say one thing does another lol but his natural guidline numbers are right,,
*** those are not on stage numbers! you will never see a 185lb fella at 5'10 at 4% on stage naturally just dont happen,,you will see that fella at 180-185 7-10% depending on few factors
gh15 approved
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he wasnt on mega doses or anything of the sort,,he was experiementing with simple drug natural to the body called T E S T O S T E R O N A ,,
in regarding his weight guidlines,,pretty much on spot give or take 5lb,,remember bodybuilder say one thing does another lol but his natural guidline numbers are right,,
*** those are not on stage numbers! you will never see a 185lb fella at 5'10 at 4% on stage naturally just dont happen,,you will see that fella at 180-185 7-10% depending on few factors
gh15 approved
Agreed ;D
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he wasnt on mega doses or anything of the sort,,he was experiementing with simple drug natural to the body called T E S T O S T E R O N A ,,
in regarding his weight guidlines,,pretty much on spot give or take 5lb,,remember bodybuilder say one thing does another lol but his natural guidline numbers are right,,
*** those are not on stage numbers! you will never see a 185lb fella at 5'10 at 4% on stage naturally just dont happen,,you will see that fella at 180-185 7-10% depending on few factors
gh15 approved
Whatever anyone could make this up, I love how once you hit six foot the mass per inch you gain doubles what a joke.
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nah,, around 7 lb per inch give or take a lb,,
gh15 approved
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he wasnt on mega doses or anything of the sort,,he was experiementing with simple drug natural to the body called T E S T O S T E R O N A ,,
in regarding his weight guidlines,,pretty much on spot give or take 5lb,,remember bodybuilder say one thing does another lol but his natural guidline numbers are right,,
*** those are not on stage numbers! you will never see a 185lb fella at 5'10 at 4% on stage naturally just dont happen,,you will see that fella at 180-185 7-10% depending on few factors
gh15 approved
Most SHREDDED naties of average height are EXTREMELY light, I'd say 135-150 lbs on average for 5'8-9 " and 150 bs to 175lbs for 5'10-11". Of course I'm talking devoid of ALL bodyfat. Those numbers might be - or + a lb or 5 here or there for heavy boned or small jointed individuals . I remember how shocked I was my first summer of training when I was 16 of how light I was, as I dieted from a chubby 187 lbs to a completely shredded tiny tit at 138 lbs at 5'10 ". Yeah you look tiny in clothes but without them people would overestimate my weight by 15 -20 lbs. Obviously people grow over the years but I honestly believe it's damn near impossible to be of average height and shredded over 200 lbs.
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he wasnt on mega doses or anything of the sort,,he was experiementing with simple drug natural to the body called T E S T O S T E R O N A ,,
in regarding his weight guidlines,,pretty much on spot give or take 5lb,,remember bodybuilder say one thing does another lol but his natural guidline numbers are right,,
*** those are not on stage numbers! you will never see a 185lb fella at 5'10 at 4% on stage naturally just dont happen,,you will see that fella at 180-185 7-10% depending on few factors
gh15 approved
BULLSHIT as usual. you're claiming to have first hand knowledge of his use which is an out and out lie. ou also claimed he used insulin too ::)
prove Reeves was using test don't type it. I challenged you a long time ago to prove it and you failed as usual.
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Reeves juiced, end of story.
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Reeves juiced, end of story.
well you certainly backed up your claims with facts and evidence ::)
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well you certainly backed up your claims with facts and evidence ::)
Lol as if the evidence is just going be floating around 50 years later, lol there's no used rubber lying around proving I fucked your mother but it did happen.
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nah,, around 7 lb per inch give or take a lb,,
gh15 approved
Which is pretty much what every bmi chart in the world says. I got a simpler question, how much can lean muscle mass zero fat can a person put on, going from say 5 9 100 pounds zero percent bodyfat, (assuming you can max out your muscle a 0 percent.?
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6'1" at 210 pounds at 10% would be very built, naturally.
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well you certainly backed up your claims with facts and evidence ::)
you lose plus Ronnie was better
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Lol as if the evidence is just going be floating around 50 years later, lol there's no used rubber lying around proving I fucked your mother but it did happen.
I'm not asking for hard evidence I'll take anecdotal evidence , first hand accounts , anyone who was around him in his hey-day all confirm his status
and mom jokes? dude come on you're gonna have to do better than that one. :-\
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6'1" at 210 pounds at 10% would be very built, naturally.
No it's an impossibility according to gh15 ::) Reeves was on test , test tablets , and insulin yet he could be ' considered natural ' lmao
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I'm not asking for hard evidence I'll take anecdotal evidence , first hand accounts , anyone who was around him in his hey-day all confirm his status
and mom jokes? dude come on you're gonna have to do better than that one. :-\
I don't care I laughed regardless, anyhow he was the first real bodybuilding legend, I doubt he was openly admitting to needing a secret sauce to everyone he knows.
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I don't care I laughed regardless, anyhow he was the first real bodybuilding legend, I doubt he was openly admitting to needing a secret sauce to everyone he knows.
You're the only one who laughed , I'm sure that happens often to you :-X again people who he competed with , training partners , etc would have this type of knowledge they all confirm his status
Steroids wouldn't have been illegal so he wouldn't have anything to hide
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You're the only one who laughed , I'm sure that happens often to you :-X again people who he competed with , training partners , etc would have this type of knowledge they all confirm his status
Steroids wouldn't have been illegal so he wouldn't have anything to hide
Reeves knew some great doctors
pluns ronnie beats dorian
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So what was Reeves height and weight at his peak? P.S. He was under 10% bodyfat at his peak, I'd put him at sub-8 and maybe even sub-7
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You're the only one who laughed , I'm sure that happens often to you :-X again people who he competed with , training partners , etc would have this type of knowledge they all confirm his status
Steroids wouldn't have been illegal so he wouldn't have anything to hide
It was his major edge, why the fuck would he give it to someone else.
Regardless this is the internet I don't care if you laugh, I'm selfish like that, I come here for my entertainment not yours, well sometimes your mothers but that's between me and her skip.
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you lose plus Ronnie was better
::) ;D :P
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So what was Reeves height and weight at his peak? P.S. He was under 10% bodyfat at his peak, I'd put him at sub-8 and maybe even sub-7
6'1" 215lbs
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Reeves knew some great doctors
pluns ronnie beats dorian
LMAO Reeves was also doing dbols 6 years before they were invented too lmao
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No it's an impossibility according to gh15 ::) Reeves was on test , test tablets , and insulin yet he could be ' considered natural ' lmao
ND, I don't have the traditional GetBig superhuman genetics, but I would argue that I have above average genetics. I have small joints, which provide the illusion of having larger muscles, and this "sport" is all about illusion.
I have never had the desire to compete in "bodybuilding", but have trained consistently for the last 18 years in one form or another.
My best lean bodyweight (from journals) was at a height of 6'1", 203 pounds and 12%. This was while I was in law school in the year 2000. I had a respectable deadlift (my best lift, admittedly, and I rarely maxed out), which was a weight of 502 pounds (I had idiotic thoughts of powerlifting, hence why I know it was 502).
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So what was Reeves height and weight at his peak? P.S. He was under 10% bodyfat at his peak, I'd put him at sub-8 and maybe even sub-7
No way was he sub 7%.
Reeves was natural as well, there is nothing to suggest he was on anything.
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ND, I don't have the traditional GetBig superhuman genetics, but I would argue that I have above average genetics. I have small joints, which provide the illusion of having larger muscles, and this "sport" is all about illusion.
I have never had the desire to compete in "bodybuilding", but have trained consistently for the last 18 years in one form or another.
My best lean bodyweight (from journals) was at a height of 6'1", 203 pounds and 12%. This was while I was in law school in the year 2000. I had a respectable deadlift (my best lift, admittedly, and I rarely maxed out), which was a weight of 502 pounds (I had idiotic thoughts of powerlifting, hence why I know it was 502).
living proof gh15 is full of shit good deal
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ND, I don't have the traditional GetBig superhuman genetics, but I would argue that I have above average genetics. I have small joints, which provide the illusion of having larger muscles, and this "sport" is all about illusion.
I have never had the desire to compete in "bodybuilding", but have trained consistently for the last 18 years in one form or another.
My best lean bodyweight (from journals) was at a height of 6'1", 203 pounds and 12%. This was while I was in law school in the year 2000. I had a respectable deadlift (my best lift, admittedly, and I rarely maxed out), which was a weight of 502 pounds (I had idiotic thoughts of powerlifting, hence why I know it was 502).
VERY GOOD,,this is a true natual statment!!! my pupils read this too over and over!,,very very good truthful post that shed alight on the lies of reeves too,,
and reeves was 6%,,he also few times in his career was 5-6% but mostly 6%,,215 6'1 6% was never natural and will never be natural,,
gh15 approved
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VERY GOOD,,this is a true natual statment!!! my pupils read this too over and over!,,very very good truthful post that shed alight on the lies of reeves too,,
and reeves was 6%,,he also few times in his career was 5-6% but mostly 6%,,215 6'1 6% was never natural and will never be natural,,
gh15 approved
No fucking way was Reeves ever at 5 or 6%. Post a pic that backs this up.
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VERY GOOD,,this is a true natual statment!!! my pupils read this too over and over!,,very very good truthful post that shed alight on the lies of reeves too,,
and reeves was 6%,,he also few times in his career was 5-6% but mostly 6%,,215 6'1 6% was never natural and will never be natural,,
gh15 approved
hahahahahahaha no he was on test , test tablets and insulin and he was 5% gotcha ;D
dumbass
looks 5% to me ::)
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test , test tablets , insulin and 5% BF lmmfao
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hahahahahahaha no he was on test , test tablets and insulin and he was 5% gotcha ;D
dumbass
looks 5% to me ::)
8- 9 % in that pic
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hahahahahahaha no he was on test , test tablets and insulin and he was 5% gotcha ;D
dumbass
looks 5% to me ::)
retard I SAID AT TIMES in his career,,go take yoru anxiety med lol you dont read very well,,and ye he was on testosterona we been through this already you casnt prove he wasnt and i cant prove he was persay,, but when you been to this game and yes i call it a game because this is a cult,,you understand very fast how it all works,,reeves was one of the first liars and icons at that ,,he was the first actual dealer if you think about it ,,he gain respect for that because it didnt die ,, right my stressed out friend? :)
reeves wass 6% on stage most of his career,,and yes thi is 6% the fact you dont know how to distinguish water and fat and quality of caemra is an issue you need to solve with yourselves
gh15 approved
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test , test tablets , insulin and 5% BF lmmfao
:D :D :D
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Reeve's was 9-10%
No where near 7% huge difference between 7 and 10
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GH15 once again proving he knows fuck all about natural training.
I think Steve banged his great grandma or something.
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GH15 you are so full of shit. 5 - 6% BF you are out of your mind.
You know what they say about liars, the curse of being a liar is that you can never believe anyone. Too bad for you GH.
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I certainly believe that reeves was experimenting with testosterone...same as other bodybuilders...and they already did that in the 40s!
they had 'health clinics' back in the 40s..and we all know the mind of a bodybuilder. if there is a drug that can help them...they will try it.
I don't believe in all the romantic talk about bodybuilding in the 40-50s. many of the bodybuilding type of guys were mentally ill back then too.
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I have to say that when I got below 10%, I felt pretty terrible health wise (maybe just came at a bad time??) and seemed to lose more muscle than I should have/thought I would.
After what I felt was my "best", I simply ate less calories (no crazy diet), trained the same, and went down to 178 lbs. at a very lean bf% (below 10%).
I didn't like how small I looked, but my then girlfriend liked that "look" the best. Goes to show that even when not a competitive bodybuilder, we all have egos.
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retard I SAID AT TIMES in his career,,go take yoru anxiety med lol you dont read very well,,and ye he was on testosterona we been through this already you casnt prove he wasnt and i cant prove he was persay,, but when you been to this game and yes i call it a game because this is a cult,,you understand very fast how it all works,,reeves was one of the first liars and icons at that ,,he was the first actual dealer if you think about it ,,he gain respect for that because it didnt die ,, right my stressed out friend? :)
reeves wass 6% on stage most of his career,,and yes thi is 6% the fact you dont know how to distinguish water and fat and quality of caemra is an issue you need to solve with yourselves
gh15 approved
meltdown
now he's a dealer to boot? the best part is you keep adding to the list
steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.
this is your quote , but he was on test , test tablets , insulin and he was a dealer , can't keep track of your bullshit? I can ;)
another one of your gems
steve reeves was the closest thhing to natural that you will ever see as a bodybuilder. steve reeves was indeed a natural.
flip-flop much? he could be considered natural yet he was on everything known to man and was a dealer hahahahaha I enjoy exposing your bullshit using your own bullshit
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this is what 6% with some water looks like,,,for not to forget my friends,,he did not use diuretics it wasnt till later then diuretics started be used in bodybuilding,,so this is what true 6% with no duretic look ,,he held water from test and thats why you think its 7-8%
there is no need to argue with gh15,,im god and im god for a reason ,,i have absolite knowledge becaue i walk the way i dont only talk the talk ,,
also you dont want to wake up my group of hyenas ,,they will come and argue you for days here and they will be right but i think they already got to the conclusion yourew a little psycopathic narcdiety :)
gh15 approved
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I certainly believe that reeves was experimenting with testosterone...same as other bodybuilders...and they already did that in the 40s!
they had 'health clinics' back in the 40s..and we all know the mind of a bodybuilder. if there is a drug that can help them...they will try it.
I don't believe in all the romantic talk about bodybuilding in the 40-50s. many of the bodybuilding type of guys were mentally ill back then too.
there is start.... lol
and you are right my friend,, the old timers weree just as liars,,they just found the holy grail subject to the time ofcourse,,,sooner :)
gh15 approved
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Reeve's was 9-10%
No where near 7% huge difference between 7 and 10
shit he said 5% fuck 7% :-X
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this is what 6% with some water looks like,,,for not to forget my friends,,he did not use diuretics it wasnt till later then diuretics started be used in bodybuilding,,so this is what true 6% with no duretic look ,,he held water from test and thats why you think its 7-8%
there is no need to argue with gh15,,im god and im god for a reason ,,i have absolite knowledge becaue i walk the way i dont only talk the talk ,,
also you dont want to wake up my group of hyenas ,,they will come and argue you for days here and they will be right but i think they already got to the conclusion yourew a little psycopathic narcdiety :)
gh15 approved
6% lol you fucking imbecile.
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meltdown
now he's a dealer to boot? the best part is you keep adding to the list
steve reeves could be called natural because he did not have consistancy in his drug use. it was nothing to write home about.
this is your quote , but he was on test , test tablets , insulin and he was a dealer , can't keep track of your bullshit? I can ;)
another one of your gems
steve reeves was the closest thhing to natural that you will ever see as a bodybuilder. steve reeves was indeed a natural.
flip-flop much? he could be considered natural yet he was on everything known to man and was a dealer hahahahaha I enjoy exposing your bullshit using your own bullshit
steve reeves WAS NATURAL lol we dont consider puting few hunderds mg of test in body hormonized my crazy friend lol
re read everythign in the bible ,,im never wrong
gh15 approved
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this is what 6% with some water looks like,,,for not to forget my friends,,he did not use diuretics it wasnt till later then diuretics started be used in bodybuilding,,so this is what true 6% with no duretic look ,,he held water from test and thats why you think its 7-8%
there is no need to argue with gh15,,im god and im god for a reason ,,i have absolite knowledge becaue i walk the way i dont only talk the talk ,,
also you dont want to wake up my group of hyenas ,,they will come and argue you for days here and they will be right but i think they already got to the conclusion yourew a little psycopathic narcdiety :)
gh15 approved
there is no argument just you exposing yourself as full of shit , he could be considered natural yet was on test , test tablets , and insulin LMFAO you should have added diuretics to boot fuck-it , 5% too hahahahahaha
you're always good for a laugh I'll give you that ;D
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shit he said 5% fuck 7% :-X
thats correct steve reeves was 6% most of his career with going between 5 and 6 few times,,the water from test make you think it qas 7 and 8,,he was never 10% at this level and not 9 ,,his abs were too detailed his definition was not what 9-10 percent is ,,9-10 percent will show outline of abs with blurred lines,, at sub 8 it start clearing but! and it is big but!! everyone hold fat different so some can how more abs or less abs at those bodyfat ,,from experience im tellin you steve reeves was 6% on stage not 7 but 6%
gh15 approved
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steve reeves WAS NATURAL lol we dont consider puting few hunderds mg of test in body hormonized my crazy friend lol
re read everythign in the bible ,,im never wrong
gh15 approved
Says the guy that says that you can't put an inch on your arms after training fifteen months natty. ::)
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thats correct steve reeves was 6% most of his career with going between 5 and 6 few times,,the water from test make you think it qas 7 and 8,,he was never 10% at this level and not 9 ,,his abs were too detailed his definition was not what 9-10 percent is ,,9-10 percent will show outline of abs with blurred lines,, at sub 8 it start clearing but! and it is big but!! everyone hold fat different so some can how more abs or less abs at those bodyfat ,,from experience im tellin you steve reeves was 6% on stage not 7 but 6%
gh15 approved
Post a pic of him at 5%.
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there is start.... lol
and you are right my friend,, the old timers weree just as liars,,they just found the holy grail subject to the time ofcourse,,,sooner :)
gh15 approved
yes, I have done alot of reading about the bodybuilding scene back in the 40s and 50s and I have borrowed books on the subject (that discuss health clinics where you can get testosterone)...to me it's clear: people are people. bodybuilders will always be bodybuilders (40s,50s 80s..00s it doesn't matter)...the difference is that they talked about health culture back then and about drinking honey water etc ;D
but there were young bodybuilders back then who would do anything to build their body..just as today.(so that they can have sex with 48 year old neighboor woman who's husband was away fighting in world war 2)
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steve reeves WAS NATURAL lol we dont consider puting few hunderds mg of test in body hormonized my crazy friend lol
re read everythign in the bible ,,im never wrong
gh15 approved
Your claims he was on test , test tablets and insulin yet he WAS NATURAL makes total sense ::) and now you're reduced to claiming how much be was taking ' few hundreds mg of test ' all from looking at black & white photos from 70 years ago LMFAO
how does it feel being reduced to speculating and trying to pass that speculation off as fact? ???
GH-bullshitter-15
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there is no argument just you exposing yourself as full of shit , he could be considered natural yet was on test , test tablets , and insulin LMFAO you should have added diuretics to boot fuck-it , 5% too hahahahahaha
you're always good for a laugh I'll give you that ;D
you got to understand what i say is straight out truth of how homones work ,,im nto with agenda against you or anyone else,,i say how the human body works hands on with hormones,,ask any one who is a bodybuilder eye to eye,,you will see them smiling under their moostage and confirming it ,,im never wrong in regard to that thats what i do 247 for many many years
i do consider reeves natural ,,but he was on test lol ,,he was natural liar,,then again good physiqe and if you thikn about it extra test in body is natural lol he did not do it long enough and at high enough doses ,,today naturals i out because they are addicts they always on doing it ,,the end
gh15 approved
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you got to understand what i say is straight out truth of how homones work ,,im nto with agenda against you or anyone else,,i say how the human body works hands on with hormones,,ask any one who is a bodybuilder eye to eye,,you will see them smiling under their moostage and confirming it ,,im never wrong in regard to that thats what i do 247 for many many years
i do consider reeves natural ,,but he was on test lol ,,he was natural liar,,then again good physiqe and if you thikn about it extra test in body is natural lol he did not do it long enough and at high enough doses ,,today naturals i out because they are addicts they always on doing it ,,the end
gh15 approved
You're the liar because you're claiming to know what he was on , how long he was on it , what combo he was on all information which you couldn't possess , so when you say he was a natural liar you're projecting you're own bullshit lies
you're full of shit and we both know it.
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Your claims he was on test , test tablets and insulin yet he WAS NATURAL makes total sense ::) and now you're reduced to claiming how much be was taking ' few hundreds mg of test ' all from looking at black & white photos from 70 years ago LMFAO
how does it feel being reduced to speculating and trying to pass that speculation off as fact? ???
GH-bullshitter-15
narcist ,,if you could see reality and back off the computer and be balanced which you are not lol you woudl see that it is you that is looking like nuts lol every one here and anywhere will tel you im right ,,there are seriosu bodybuilder here that will tell you to yoru face gh15 is right because i am ,,there is no proof persay and no reduction of anything,,today guys use insulin and say they are natural ,,today guys use test say they are natural,,steve reeves experiemented with testosterona like i always said ,,never changed my mind ,,its just how it was,,
sorry your hero is reduced to reality infront of your face,,i cant control your mental problems my friend
gh15 approved
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SHUCK THE FUCK UP THIS IS SO 2006. ::)
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yes, I have done alot of reading about the bodybuilding scene back in the 40s and 50s and I have borrowed books on the subject (that discuss health clinics where you can get testosterone)...to me it's clear: people are people. bodybuilders will always be bodybuilders (40s,50s 80s..00s it doesn't matter)...the difference is that they talked about health culture back then and about drinking honey water etc ;D
but there were young bodybuilders back then who would do anything to build their body..just as today.(so that they can have sex with 48 year old neighboor woman who's husband was away fighting in world war 2)
you've done a lot of reading on the scene back in the 40-50s? then you'd know anabolics weren't even created until the 1956 years AFTER Reeves retired , and they weren't even used on bodybuilders at first , they were used on weightlifters , the earliest references to bodybuilders using steroids I've seen is 1960 , do yourself a favor and keep reading and not gh15s posts either that's not proof
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narcist ,,if you could see reality and back off the computer and be balanced which you are not lol you woudl see that it is you that is looking like nuts lol every one here and anywhere will tel you im right ,,there are seriosu bodybuilder here that will tell you to yoru face gh15 is right because i am ,,there is no proof persay and no reduction of anything,,today guys use insulin and say they are natural ,,today guys use test say they are natural,,steve reeves experiemented with testosterona like i always said ,,never changed my mind ,,its just how it was,,
sorry your hero is reduced to reality infront of your face,,i cant control your mental problems my friend
gh15 approved
Still waiting on those 5% pics.
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reeves was a drug pig, they had access to testosterone back in the 40s (as has already been mentioned). no one here can prove that reeves took the drugs, but to me it's obvious guys were experimenting a bit here and there back then too.
as for ND: shut the fuck up. you have the mind of a 16 year old kid..with your constant quotes from flex magazine. anything written in flex magazine must be true lol. you are seriously mentally fucked up.
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narcist ,,if you could see reality and back off the computer and be balanced which you are not lol you woudl see that it is you that is looking like nuts lol every one here and anywhere will tel you im right ,,there are seriosu bodybuilder here that will tell you to yoru face gh15 is right because i am ,,there is no proof persay and no reduction of anything,,today guys use insulin and say they are natural ,,today guys use test say they are natural,,steve reeves experiemented with testosterona like i always said ,,never changed my mind ,,its just how it was,,
sorry your hero is reduced to reality infront of your face,,i cant control your mental problems my friend
gh15 approved
mental problems? says the guy who claims Reeves was natural yet was on test , test tablets and insulin , claim to know this for a fact but have no proof , mental problems? shall I bring up the aliens :-X
Reeves = bodybuilding legend
gh15 = internet gimmick
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yes, I have done alot of reading about the bodybuilding scene back in the 40s and 50s and I have borrowed books on the subject (that discuss health clinics where you can get testosterone)...to me it's clear: people are people. bodybuilders will always be bodybuilders (40s,50s 80s..00s it doesn't matter)...the difference is that they talked about health culture back then and about drinking honey water etc ;D
but there were young bodybuilders back then who would do anything to build their body..just as today.(so that they can have sex with 48 year old neighboor woman who's husband was away fighting in world war 2)
"I have done a lot of reading... I have borrowed books on the subject.." But you can't name one. Shuddup.
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reeves was a drug pig, they had access to testosterone back in the 40s (as has already been mentioned). no one here can prove that reeves took the drugs, but to me it's obvious guys were experimenting a bit here and there back then too.
as for ND: shut the fuck up. you have the mind of a 16 year old kid..with your constant quotes from flex magazine. anything written in flex magazine must be true lol. you are seriously mentally fucked up.
215 at about 10% scream usage to you?
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Still waiting on those 5% pics.
do you thikn im gong to look for picture of reeves at 5 percent and i said between 5 and 6 ,,but do you think i will sit here look for pictures,,i said i seen few ,,along the years,,you want them you find them and show god ,,i will tell you if they are them
you guys lost your mind,,im here answering your shit right now back and forth bit it doesnt mean i dont have 5K to make
gh15 approved
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do you thikn im gong to look for picture of reeves at 5 percent and i said between 5 and 6 ,,but do you think i will sit here look for pictures,,i said i seen few ,,along the years,,you want them you find them and show god ,,i will tell you if they are them
you guys lost your mind,,im here answering your shit right now back and forth bit it doesnt mean i dont have 5K to make
gh15 approved
yer fucked dood, game over.
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reeves was a drug pig, they had access to testosterone back in the 40s (as has already been mentioned). no one here can prove that reeves took the drugs, but to me it's obvious guys were experimenting a bit here and there back then too.
as for ND: shut the fuck up. you have the mind of a 16 year old kid..with your constant quotes from flex magazine. anything written in flex magazine must be true lol. you are seriously mentally fucked up.
Reeves was a ' drug pig ' but I have no proof what so ever , Reeves could be considered natural yet he was on test , test tablets and insulin and he was a dealer to boot , oh and he was 5% BF lmao and I have the mind of a 16 year old?
Reeves was 100% natural drug-free it kills a lot of people to hear that because they couldn't claim it themselves.
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do you thikn im gong to look for picture of reeves at 5 percent and i said between 5 and 6 ,,but do you think i will sit here look for pictures,,i said i seen few ,,along the years,,you want them you find them and show god ,,i will tell you if they are them
you guys lost your mind,,im here answering your shit right now back and forth bit it doesnt mean i dont have 5K to make
gh15 approved
You lose motherfooker. :-*
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do you thikn im gong to look for picture of reeves at 5 percent and i said between 5 and 6 ,,but do you think i will sit here look for pictures,,i said i seen few ,,along the years,,you want them you find them and show god ,,i will tell you if they are them
you guys lost your mind,,im here answering your shit right now back and forth bit it doesnt mean i dont have 5K to make
gh15 approved
looks 5% to me ;D
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you've done a lot of reading on the scene back in the 40-50s? then you'd know anabolics weren't even created until the 1956 years AFTER Reeves retired , and they weren't even used on bodybuilders at first , they were used on weightlifters , the earliest references to bodybuilders using steroids I've seen is 1960 , do yourself a favor and keep reading and not gh15s posts either that's not proof
no the guy is correct. it is YOU who need to put down flex magazine.
testosterone was available in the 40s. you are talking about ziegler and Dianabol.
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Reeves was a ' drug pig ' but I have no proof what so ever , Reeves could be considered natural yet he was on test , test tablets and insulin and he was a dealer to boot , oh and he was 5% BF lmao and I have the mind of a 16 year old?
Reeves was 100% natural drug-free it kills a lot of people to hear that because they couldn't claim it themselves.
who said he was a drug pig? he was just the beggingin of the cult alogn with few other individuals ,,he strted us all ,,hell he made me so rich i can eat 5 times a day sushi every day for the rest of my life,,no one said drug addict,,drug addict is now day,,in his day it was test here and there to keep it up as you say ,,
thats the truth not my fault you cant deal with it
gh15 approved
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Personally, I don't care if Reeves took drugs or not. He had a great physique either way.
Certainly, he was at the end of the bell curve for genetics, because he looked far better at 16 than most people do at 30 with years of training under their belt.
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Personally, I don't care if Reeves took drugs or not. He had a great physique either way.
Certainly, he was at the end of the bell curve for genetics, because he looked far better at 16 than most people do at 30 with years of training under their belt.
All GH from dead apes and secret Nazi experimentation.
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who said he was a drug pig? he was just the beggingin of the cult alogn with few other individuals ,,he strted us all ,,hell he made me so rich i can eat 5 times a day sushi every day for the rest of my life,,no one said drug addict,,drug addict is now day,,in his day it was test here and there to keep it up as you say ,,
thats the truth not my fault you cant deal with it
gh15 approved
I said he was a drug pig because that is what he was. early in his career he experimented but later on it went beyond experimentation (after he stopped competing and got older).
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no the guy is correct. it is YOU who need to put down flex magazine.
testosterone was available in the 40s. you are talking about ziegler and Dianabol.
Ziegler was the first to use testosterone in this country , this was before Dianbol and it was deemed useless at that time , this can be proven , prove to me test was available and used in the 1940s for strength athletes , don't give me stories and an all encompassing ' it was available ' default excuse
Performance enhancing drugs in strength athletes in the United States started with Doctor John Ziegler in late 1954 early 1955 years AFTER Reeves retired , to claim he had access to an experimental drug and used it before Ziegler is just bullshit , I deal in facts and anyone claiming to predate Ziegler , Ciba and Hoffman and York better put up of shut up.
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I said he was a drug pig because that is what he was. early in his career he experimented but later on it went beyond experimentation (after he stopped competing and got older).
You sound like him :-\
Reeves 100% natural if you have proof to the contrary I'll entertain it ;)
the fucking guy was 6'1" and 215lbs , if he was 6'1" and 240lbs back in the 40s then one might raise an eyebrow but he wasn't even exceptionally big for his time , Park was 225lbs
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Ziegler was the first to use testosterone in this country , this was before Dianbol and it was deemed useless at that time , this can be proven , prove to me test was available and used in the 1940s for strength athletes , don't give me stories and an all encompassing ' it was available ' default excuse
Performance enhancing drugs in strength athletes in the United States started with Doctor John Ziegler in late 1954 early 1955 years AFTER Reeves retired , to claim he had access to an experimental drug and used it before Ziegler is just bullshit , I deal in facts and anyone claiming to predate Ziegler , Ciba and Hoffman and York better put up of shut up.
I don't need to prove shit to you and we both know you just googled and copy and pasted that shit. ::)
I already know the story of ziegler and his experimentation , so no need to preach to the choir. I read about it long ago.
doctors were prescribing testosterone back in the 40s so you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
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I would also like to point out that i never limited my argument to reeves competitive years. so don't put words in my mouth.
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Reeves got the secret alien nazi anabolics when he was in the Phillippeans. They saved him from malaria. He mixed them with his gelatine and they created everything, if you look at pictures of Reeves when he was younger he looks like an emaciated pee wee herman.
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You sound like him :-\
Reeves 100% natural if you have proof to the contrary I'll entertain it ;)
the fucking guy was 6'1" and 215lbs , if he was 6'1" and 240lbs back in the 40s then one might raise an eyebrow but he wasn't even exceptionally big for his time , Park was 225lbs
the argument goes beyond his bodyweight. it's obvious you don't understand the mentality of bodybuilders.
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Just reinforces what I already knew...time to lose 10 pounds.... :-\
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I don't need to prove shit to you and we both know you just googled and copy and pasted that shit. ::)
I already know the story of ziegler and his experimentation , so no need to preach to the choir. I read about it long ago.
doctors were prescribing testosterone back in the 40s so you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
Thanks for proving you can't back up your claims ;)
I didn't google that shit either I knew that shit for a long time now. like I said put up or shut up and your response? doctors were prescribing test back in the 40s , your word isn't proof , there is a reference about test esters in strength & health in 1938 it means shit
what matters is who started using test in the United States for strength athletes and I found NO ONE until Ziegler , read up about York and Bill March there is detailed evidence that proves they were the first ones , not vague reference and bullshit claims
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narcsist,, i told you you going to bring out my hyenas lol and you did,,actually this slaveboy is teaching you a lesson ,,he actually argument well and with 2-3 posts made you look like a newbe which ...you are,,bercause you have no experience with hormones,,hormones do not mean size only ,,some fellas take hormones inroder to maintain size when dieting ,,some take it for strength ,,some take it for body composition ,,some take it to LOSE WEIGHT,,it depends on many variables,,but to be honest with you ,,you gotta save your pride and crowl back into the hole you came from because this is a losing arguments,,
you want to belieev in heros,,wake up my friend,,its 2010 wake up,,the heros are not bodybuilders lol
gh15 approved
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you've done a lot of reading on the scene back in the 40-50s? then you'd know anabolics weren't even created until the 1956 years AFTER Reeves retired , and they weren't even used on bodybuilders at first , they were used on weightlifters , the earliest references to bodybuilders using steroids I've seen is 1960 , do yourself a favor and keep reading and not gh15s posts either that's not proof
one of the books I read on the subject is called testosterone dreams. it states that testosterone was used in the 1940s so bodybuilders could definately also get their hands on it.
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GH15 you are so full of shit. 5 - 6% BF you are out of your mind.
You know what they say about liars, the curse of being a liar is that you can never believe anyone. Too bad for you GH.
gh15 already posted he is a pathological liar....its hard to believe what someone says after they claim that.
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here is some more info about the book I mentioned:
http://nsrc.sfsu.edu/article/testosterone_dreams
Testosterone became a charismatic drug during the 1940s because it promised sexual stimulation and renewed energy. Physicians described the optimal effect of testosterone drugs as a feeling of “well-being,” a term that has been used many times since the 1940s to characterize their positive effect on mood. In the early 1940s testosterone was hailed in pharmaceutical advertising as a mood-altering drug whose primary purpose was the sexual restoration and reenergizing of aging males. It appeared at that time that an inexpensive supply, widespread demand, and favorable medical opinion would soon produce a major market for testosterone products.
The first public advocate of testosterone therapy for aging men was the popular science journalist Paul de Kruif, whose manifesto The Male Hormone was published with some fanfare in 1945. Excerpted in Reader’s Digest and promoted by a full-page review in Newsweek (“Hormones for He-Men”), The Male Hormone was in some respects a prophetic book. The potential market for a rejuvenating male hormone seemed to be enormous: “How many millions of American males, not the men they used to be, would flock to the physicians and the druggist, a bit shame-faced and surreptitious, maybe, but hopeful, murmuring: ‘Doc, how about some of this new male hormone?’”
Testosterone did not become a mass market drug in the 1940s due to the sexual conservatism of most American physicians and the society they served. The belief that testosterone was a stimulating drug made it a potential threat to sexual morality as well as a promising therapy. Sensational coverage had given the male hormone a quasi-pornographic image that its female counterpart estrogen had never acquired. Commenting on testosterone’s unsavory reputation in 1946, Science Digest reported that “the uninformed continue to believe that the sole use of this innocent chemical is to turn sexual weaklings into wolves, and octogenarians into sexual athletes.”
The 1940s also saw the use of testosterone therapy as an experimental “cure” for homosexuality. The medical view of homosexuality as a type of endocrine deficiency made the use of testosterone propionate to reverse homosexual orientation virtually predictable. As one physician in 1940 put it: “If homosexuality is merely the result of an endocrine disturbance, the prospect for its cure must be excellent today.”
The idea that the bodies of homosexuals contained less male hormone and more female hormone than those of heterosexuals first appeared in 1935. By 1940 a number of investigators were confident enough in their ability to assay hormone levels to claim that homosexuality was rooted in abnormal sex hormone ratios rather than the psychological complexes hypothesized by Freud and others. “It seems,” one research team wrote, “that the constitutional homosexual has a different sex hormone chemistry than the normal male.” The fallacy of this therapeutic rationale became evident soon enough. Testosterone propionate combined with chorionic gonadotropin was not curing homosexuals, even in studies that encouraged belief in the drug and did not compare its effects with those of a placebo. In fact, it was becoming increasingly clear that androgens did not reverse but actually intensified homosexual libido, so that “sometimes instead of helping one gets a worsening of the condition.”
Prescription for women?
Testosterone drugs were also the favored pharmacological technique of the 1940s for treating sexual “frigidity” in women. Testosterone propionate ointment could be applied to the vulva or clitoris to increase genital sensitivity. Testosterone could be injected or pellets implanted under the skin to intensify libido. By 1943 testosterone propionate was reported to be in widespread use to treat women with sexual and other endocrine disorders
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narcist ,,if you could see reality and back off the computer and be balanced which you are not lol you woudl see that it is you that is looking like nuts lol every one here and anywhere will tel you im right ,,there are seriosu bodybuilder here that will tell you to yoru face gh15 is right because i am ,,there is no proof persay and no reduction of anything,,today guys use insulin and say they are natural ,,today guys use test say they are natural,,steve reeves experiemented with testosterona like i always said ,,never changed my mind ,,its just how it was,,
sorry your hero is reduced to reality infront of your face,,i cant control your mental problems my friend
gh15 approved
As far as I remember Lee Priest and Milos think you're full of shit and some people over at MD that know about this also thought you were full of it when you were posting with your "nordic" gimmick.
I'll wait for your list of pro bodybuilders and 'gurus' that agree with you.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=357912.0;attach=393159;image)
never seen that one before. guy was a fucking genetic marvel
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one of the books I read on the subject is called testosterone dreams. it states that testosterone was used in the 1940s so bodybuilders could definately also get their hands on it.
There you go , test was used in the 40s so therefore bodybuilders could get it , YOU drawing your own conclusions. I can prove to you Ziegler started using test on strength athletes see the difference?
again there is a brief reference to testosterone esthers in Strength & Health magazine in 1938 , this means what? guys were using? that's not evidence that wishful thinking
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here is some more info about the book I mentioned:
http://nsrc.sfsu.edu/article/testosterone_dreams
And the part where competitive bodybuilders using it? where Reeves got it , how much he used , what it did for him ? I mean this proves nothing to many people want him so badly to be on drugs and I don't get it
The history of testosterone in strength athletes in the United States begins with Ziegler in 1954 , I've yet to read of anyone who predates this anyone who claims otherwise is just full of shit.
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There you go , test was used in the 40s so therefore bodybuilders could get it , YOU drawing your own conclusions. I can prove to you Ziegler started using test on strength athletes see the difference?
again there is a brief reference to testosterone esthers in Strength & Health magazine in 1938 , this means what? guys were using? that's not evidence that wishful thinking
but that is what I have been saying all the time? I never claimed I had hard evidence that reeves took testosterone during the 40s. I don't believe anyone does. It just my opinion and does make sense to me. maybe not to you, but it does to me and obviously others too.
but what I did show you that testosterone was around in the 40s, you claimed that ziegler was first with experimenting with the stuff and that is incorrect.
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narcsist,, i told you you going to bring out my hyenas lol and you did,,actually this slaveboy is teaching you a lesson ,,he actually argument well and with 2-3 posts made you look like a newbe which ...you are,,bercause you have no experience with hormones,,hormones do not mean size only ,,some fellas take hormones inroder to maintain size when dieting ,,some take it for strength ,,some take it for body composition ,,some take it to LOSE WEIGHT,,it depends on many variables,,but to be honest with you ,,you gotta save your pride and crowl back into the hole you came from because this is a losing arguments,,
you want to belieev in heros,,wake up my friend,,its 2010 wake up,,the heros are not bodybuilders lol
gh15 approved
Again there is NO argument just a bunch of morons claiming to have information they can't possibly have. You and him both , claiming Reeves was 5% bodyfat and on test , test tablets and insulin in the 1940s LMFAO the only lesson you and him are teaching me if how stupid you are. well you did that a long time ago and he's outed himself now
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As far as I remember Lee Priest and Milos think you're full of shit and some people over at MD that know about this also thought you were full of it when you were posting with your "nordic" gimmick.
I'll wait for your list of pro bodybuilders and 'gurus' that agree with you.
lee and i hate eachother with passion,,he is a liar the worst in history of bodybuilkding one of the worst,,and mishko...well mishko talk for himself with his action of arrested every monday and friday he go with the flow btu he very well know im right,, who the fuck is nodic? gimik? do you think i hav etime to get gimicks my friend ,,if i had a dime for how many times every one immitate me proclaimingto be me trying to get in touch with me ,,trying to ask for my advice ,,and trying to say gh15 send me or said so,, id be even richer than what i am now,,
the reality of things is the any professional face to face if really know you will tell you gh15 is the real deal ,,and reason im anonimous is because my life would be at risk otherwise,,there is no friend in bodybuilding you need ot know it,,absolitly no friend,,there are a lot of fellons though...
gh15 approved
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Again there is NO argument just a bunch of morons claiming to have information they can't possibly have. You and him both , claiming Reeves was 5% bodyfat and on test , test tablets and insulin in the 1940s LMFAO the only lesson you and him are teaching me if how stupid you are. well you did that a long time ago and he's outed himself now
atleast your answweer are shorter now thanks god lol
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but that is what I have been saying all the time? I never claimed I had hard evidence that reeves took testosterone during the 40s. I don't believe anyone does. It just my opinion and does make sense to me. maybe not to you, but it does to me and obviously others too.
but what I did show you that testosterone was around in the 40s, you claimed that ziegler was first with experimenting with the stuff and that is incorrect.
I know no one has any evidence but gh15 is trying to pass off his opinion as fact , which is laughable. it makes NO sense to me because he doesn't fit the timeline and what we do know about athletes and drugs
you didn't show me testosterone was around in the 40s and it was used in strength athletes not in the least , keep trying on that one.
This is what we do know , no speculation , no vague references , no internet personas empty claims
All reliable sources - publications by Terry Todd, John Fair, Randy Roach, Bill Starr, etc, as well as interviews and letters from John Ziegler, John Grimek, Bill March, etc - indicate that experimentation with testosterone for athletic purposes began in the U.S. sometime in either late 1954 or 1955. These 'trials' were short-lived, however, as the results were disappointing and testosterone use was deemed ineffective and carried the risk of harmful side-effects. A statistical analysis of Olympic-style Weightlifting performances published in the International Journal of the History of Sport concluded that Soviet athletes likely first used testosterone sometime between 1952 and 1956.
Dr. John Ziegler, physician for the U.S. Olympic Weightlifting team (i.e. the York team), described in interviews of learning about the Soviet use of testosterone injections at the 1954 World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, Austria in October of that year. Some time after returning home, Ziegler convinced York affiliated lifters John Grimek, Jim Park and Yaz Kuzahara to be test subjects and receive testosterone injections. By Grimek's account, the results were disappointing. In a private letter, dated at the time, Grimek spoke of seeing nothing in the way of gains and quiting the injections because he felt he was actually regressing. Jim Park received only one injection which he claimed did nothing for him physically, but made him incredibly horny. It is unclear as to Kuzahara's experience but, in any case, it was not positive enough to warrant continued use and further experimentation was ceased. In light of the terrible side effects that Ziegler had heard of and witnessed Soviet users suffering, and lack of significant results in his own test subjects, no further experimentation with testosterone was tried by the York (U.S.) Weightlifting team for the duration of the 1950s.
This was not the end of Ziegler's involvement with steroids, however. Ziegler began work with CIBA Pharmaceuticals in 1955 to develop a testosterone derivative that would carry the anabolic properties of testosterone without the undesirable side effects. Preliminary results began coming in by 1956, and Dianabol was released to the U.S. prescription drug market in 1958 for use in wasting conditions. CIBA's competitor, Searle, beat them to the market, however, and introduced Nilevar, the first synthetic anabolic/androgenic steroid, to the prescription drug market in 1956 (used as a polio treatment).
In late 1959 (some claim as early as 1958, some as late as 1960) Ziegler decided to try the new Dianabol on some of the non-medal contending York lifters and enlisted Grimek to convince a few lifters to begin taking it under his (Ziegler's) supervision. Lower level or non-competitive lifters were chosen for the initial trials so as not to risk marring the performance of medal contenders at the upcoming 1960 Olympics (Dianabol was, at that time, a relatively untested drug and York chief Bob Hoffman was said to have feared trying it on his top lifters). Bill March, Tony Garcy, John Grimek, Ziegler himself and later Lou Riecke were the first Guinea Pigs, and the results were much more promising this time around.
From there, Dianabol use quickly spread to the entire York Weightlifting team. Now, up-and-coming York lifters and Strength and Health magazine writers such as Bill Starr and Tommy Suggs started letting the secret out to the bodybuilding community, and by the early-to-mid 1960s almost all high-level competitive bodybuilders were taking steroids in the weeks leading up to contests. This pre-contest cycling scheme by bodybuilders was based on the Weightlifters' practice of escalating steroid use in the weeks leading up to lifting meets - the logic being that just as the lifters wanted to be at their best (strongest) come meet day, bodybuilders wanted to peak at their biggest on the day of the contest. It didn't take long for steroid use to spill into the 'off-season' as well, as this allowed bodybuilders to build more ultimate muscle mass.
The man who would go on to become the first Mr. Olympia, Larry Scott, gained 8 pounds of muscle in two months between the 1960 Mr. Los Angeles (in which he placed third), and the 1960 Mr. California (which he won, defeating the two men who had placed above him in the Mr. Los Angeles two months earlier). A year earlier he had won the Mr. Idaho weighing just 152 pounds. Larry credits Rheo Blair, and his protein powder, as being instrumental in his sudden improvement. However, considering Larry's dramatic gains from that point onward, and Blair's reported possession of Nilevar a few years earlier before he even moved to California, it is quite likely that this time in 1960 also marks Larry's first usage of steroids (something to which he admits but, to my knowledge, hasn't specified the date).
But the early 1960s did't mark the true origins of bodybuilder's regular use of steroids, however. In an early edition of his book Getting Stronger, Bill Pearl told of meeting Arthur Jones (founder of the Nautilus line of training equipment and father of the "HIT" style of training) in 1958 and learning of Nilevar from him. After a little further investigation, Pearl began a twelve-week cycle of the steroid and gained 25 pounds. At around that same time, Irvin Johnson (aka Rheo H. Blair - 'father' of the first protein powders) is said to have had Searle's Nilevar in his possession, though he isn't believed to have been widely distributing it to bodybuilders at that time.
So what can we gather from all of this? First of all, no bodybuilder or lifter was using synthetic steroids before 1956 - they didn't exist. Most likely, only the very highest level West Coast bodybuilders knew of them by 1958. From there it seems that knowledge of Nilevar and Dianabol to build muscle and strength was kept relatively in the closet until the early 1960s. After all, Hoffman did not want outside athletes to know his lifters' secrets and he was using their sudden gains via Dianabol to promote his supplement line and isometric training courses and racks. Bill Starr wrote that until he was a national calibre lifter with York in the early 1960s he had never heard of steroids. Reg Park (Mr. Universe 1951, 1958, 1965) said that the first he heard of them were in connection with rumours about East German and Soviet athletes during the 1960 Olympics, though he later heard of "steroids" being used on British POWs from Singapore in WWII as they were being nursed back to health in Australian hospitals. Chet Yorton (Mr. America 1966, Mr. Universe 1966, 1975) has said that he first heard of steroids (Nilevar) in 1964, and decided not to risk using them - Yorton went on to become one of the sports most outspoken campaigners against steroid use and founder of the first drug-tested, natural bodybuilding federation. The condition of national and world level bodybuilders appears to have taken a visible leap between 1960 to 1964.
As for testosterone itself, Paul de Kruif's 1945 book "The Male Hormone" is often cited as "proof" that bodybuilders knew of and were using testosterone in the 1940s. But even though testosterone had been identified by researchers and isolated in laboratory settings as early as the 1930s, it didn't receive FDA approval as a prescription drug until 1950 and, therefore, was produced only sporadically and in small batches for research purposes only, before that time. De Kruif himself made no connection between testosterone and possible athletic applications - his arguments were purely from the perspective of using testosterone to improve the vitality and health of aging men and those with specific conditions.
It has been said that John Grimek, upon reading publications such as de Kruif's, was inquiring about testosterone in the 1940s. But he would have had nothing other than a possible hunch that it could be used for athletic purposes, and no source or opportunity to experiment with it. It wasn't until 1954/1955 with Ziegler, that Grimek wrote of getting his first testosterone injections. It stands to reason that if even Grimek had no access to testosterone, and no knowledge of other top level bodybuilders or lifters using it before this - and as editor of Strength and Health magazine and second in command at York he certainly was in a position to know - then it is very unlikely that anyone in the west was using it for athletic/physique purposes before late 1954/1955. Given that these early experiments were unsuccessful and brief (likely because they knew little about dosing for increased strength and muscle mass), it is most likely that the first western bodybuilders began steroid use not with testosterone itself, but with Nilevar, sometime after 1956 to 1958. From there, Dianabol enters the picture at the elite level and by 1964 even the muscle magazines, such as Iron Man, were writing about what they called the "tissue building drugs".
For a western bodybuilder or lifter to be using testosterone before late 1954/1955 he would had to have known more about the biochemistry of testosterone and it's potential effects than any western sports physician - and have had access to what was then a relatively little known prescription drug. He would also had to have known more about how to effectively dose it than John Ziegler, who would go on to co-develop Dianabol just a few years later. As for before late 1954/1955, nobody in the west can say for sure exactly when the Soviets began using testosterone, but the likely date is sometime before October 1954 and possibly as early as 1952.
As mentioned, testosterone was first approved for prescription as a cancer, wasting and burn treatment in the U.S. in 1950. Before that it was classified as an experimental drug and not available even to physicians. For a bodybuilder to be using testosterone before 1950 he would not only had to have known more about the biochemistry, dosing and potential usage of it than anybody else in the world (including the research scientists working with it), but also have had access to what was then an experimental drug, isolated sporadically in limited amounts for controlled research purposes, and not produced in quantity.
For these reasons it can be stated with some certainty that Steve Reeves, Clancy Ross, John Grimek, Jack Delinger, Reg Park, John Farbotnik, George Eiferman, etc - who all won major physique titles before the Soviets began using testosterone and before synthetic steroids were introduced in 1956 - were not using testosterone or steroids at the time of their Mr. America, Mr. USA and Mr. Universe wins. Furthermore, it is unlikely that any major title winner was a steroid user before 1957-58 (Pearl won the Mr. USA and Mr. Universe titles in 1956 before his knowledge of Nilevar). Some athletes' careers from the era, such as Reg Park's, do span the introduction of steroids into bodybuilding. In Park's case, he competed at 214 pounds when he won the Mr. Universe title in 1951, he weighed 215 when he won it the second time in 1958, and 216 when he placed 3rd in 1971 (at age 43 - he returned again in 1973 to place 2nd). If Park did jump on the steroid bandwagon when he learned of them in 1960, then they produced one pound of muscle in 11 years for him.
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Someone made the point that there is a huge difference between 10% and 7%, and that is a very true statement. And as I said before Reeves wasn't sitting at no 10%, try 6-7% ;D
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I know no one has any evidence but gh15 is trying to pass off his opinion as fact , which is laughable. it makes NO sense to me because he doesn't fit the timeline and what we do know about athletes and drugs
you didn't show me testosterone was around in the 40s and it was used in strength athletes not in the least , keep trying on that one.
This is what we do know , no speculation , no vague references , no internet personas empty claims
I already read that, I believe over at ironage.us.
I get the feeling anything I dig up you will dismiss. I did most definately show you a source that testosterone was around in the 40s. you claimed it wasn't so you were wrong about that no matter how you try to twist things. I didn't claim I could show that testosterone was used by strength athletes in the 40s (you made that up), I did claim it was around in the 40s and it was.
and I never claimed that I had proof that reeves used, so your argumentation is very dishonest.
please don't lump together the arguments of different people.
edit: I also know that there were clinics in europe were you could get testosterone during the 40s.
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to summarize:
was testosterone around in the 40s : yes
did strength athletes use it (in the 40s): I can't prove they did but I believe so.
did reeves use it: I can't prove that he did but I believe so.
this was my last post in this thread. 8)
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Gh15 use "lol" a lot lately :D
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to summarize:
was testosterone around in the 40s : yes
did strength athletes use it (in the 40s): I can't prove they did but I believe so.
did reeves use it: I can't prove that he did but I believe so.
this was my last post in this thread. 8)
to summarize: did you prove anything? NO are you basing any of your beliefs on facts? NO
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to summarize: did you prove anything? NO are you basing any of your beliefs on facts? NO
that is not correct. I did prove that testosterone was around in the 40s. that is a fact. it was mentioned in in health/bodybuilding literature already in the late 30s. that is a fact. so some bodybuilders knew about testosterone (long) before ziegler started experimenting with it, that is also a fact.
to be honest, I don't like your way of discussing things ND, seems to me that the only thing that matters to you is to get the last word and to be stubborn. I think anyone who reads this will realize that as testosterone was around long before ziegler played around with it the chances are high that bodybuilders experimented with it. and to clarify once again; does that mean that I can prove with hard evidence that reeves used it. no. never claimed I could.
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The best shape I've been in was when I was about 28. I was training with my friend Eloy Rivera. He competed in a few local contests. He admitted to doing a cyle once, but didn't like it. He said he got stronger, but very bloated. When I trained with him, he was about 175 and lean at 5'9. Very good muscle shape and genetics, very aesthetic. He kept a very clean diet, ate only chicken, fish, brown rice and veggies. Showed visible striations in his quads and tris when he was really lean. And I don't think he could afford gear at the time.
Except for my legs, I don't have more than average genetics. And rotator issues limit me from training as hard and heavy as I would like. When I trained with him, I was about 160 at 5'7" 1/2 with visible abs and around a 29" waist. But that's after training hard and consistantly and eating clean 6 days a week. At 48, I'm about 175 with a 32' waist right now. I'm sure if I trained as hard and consistantly as I did back then and ate cleanly, I could get back to what I was back then. As it is, I look way better than 98% of these fat fucks I see that are my age, lol. Most mistake me for being in my mid 30's. Definitely is a plus when it comes to pussy... :)
So I think Reeve's chart is pretty acurate for the most part.
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If I lost 10-15lbs of fat (Which I could do) I would fall pretty much into Reeve's guidelines.
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This is GH15
(http://noscope.com/photostream/albums/various/super-computer-nerd.jpg)
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Steve Reeves was built from when he was 16 to his 60's until he had health problems. Was he juicing at 16? There are pictures of him back as a young teenager. He was built during World War II. His nick name in the military was the "Shape." Was he juicing during war?
If there were no bodybuilding drugs he would go down as one of the best of all time. The last time he competed was over 50 years ago and yet he is still spoken about in todays bodybuilding circles. In another 50 he will still be talked about.
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There is something else that you fellas are kinda glossing over, and that is that he was an ultra-handsome dude (no homo)
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His shoulders looked insanely wide in clothes but I have never seen a picture of him where his shoulders looked anywhere near as big out of clothes as in clothes.
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lee and i hate eachother with passion,,he is a liar the worst in history of bodybuilkding one of the worst,,and mishko...well mishko talk for himself with his action of arrested every monday and friday he go with the flow btu he very well know im right,, who the fuck is nodic? gimik? do you think i hav etime to get gimicks my friend ,,if i had a dime for how many times every one immitate me proclaimingto be me trying to get in touch with me ,,trying to ask for my advice ,,and trying to say gh15 send me or said so,, id be even richer than what i am now,,
the reality of things is the any professional face to face if really know you will tell you gh15 is the real deal ,,and reason im anonimous is because my life would be at risk otherwise,,there is no friend in bodybuilding you need ot know it,,absolitly no friend,,there are a lot of fellons though...
gh15 approved
The big difference is that you hide like a coward. You are full of shit and know it. If you were someone to believe then you would prove who you are. But you hide and talk shit about people. You are a coward
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that is not correct. I did prove that testosterone was around in the 40s. that is a fact. it was mentioned in in health/bodybuilding literature already in the late 30s. that is a fact. so some bodybuilders knew about testosterone (long) before ziegler started experimenting with it, that is also a fact.
to be honest, I don't like your way of discussing things ND, seems to me that the only thing that matters to you is to get the last word and to be stubborn. I think anyone who reads this will realize that as testosterone was around long before ziegler played around with it the chances are high that bodybuilders experimented with it. and to clarify once again; does that mean that I can prove with hard evidence that reeves used it. no. never claimed I could.
that is not correct. I did prove that testosterone was around in the 40s. that is a fact. it was mentioned in in health/bodybuilding literature already in the late 30s. that is a fact. so some bodybuilders knew about testosterone (long) before ziegler started experimenting with it, that is also a fact.
In the context we're talking about testosterone wasn't ' around ' in the context of being use with positive results by strength athletes. And you're drawing your own conclusions by claiming they knew about testosterone before Ziegler , which leads one to believe they knew about it , it was somehow available and they used it successfully , people knew about testosterone for centuries it doesn't mean it was in use.
to be honest, I don't like your way of discussing things ND, seems to me that the only thing that matters to you is to get the last word and to be stubborn. I think anyone who reads this will realize that as testosterone was around long before ziegler played around with it the chances are high that bodybuilders experimented with it. and to clarify once again; does that mean that I can prove with hard evidence that reeves used it. no. never claimed I could.
Ironically I don't like the way you discuss things either by drawing conclusions based on vague references , it has nothing to do with me getting the last word. And there you go again ' chances are ' I don't deal in chances or bullshit , I deal in facts and the fact is there is no record what so ever of strength athletes in the United States using testosterone before Ziegler , I've yet to see one shred of proof
There is a pretty detailed record of drug use in the United States and it wasn't until years after Reeves retired.
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go to the fucking gym, you can find people like that who are natural. why is that so hard to believe.
that would support roland cziuriolzwkjlok being gh15, he always looked smaller like maybe he had shitty natty genes.
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Did Roland have an outstanding chest? Coz gh15 claims that his chest was one of his best body parts.
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Ironically I don't like the way you discuss things either by drawing conclusions based on vague references , it has nothing to do with me getting the last word. And there you go again ' chances are ' I don't deal in chances or bullshit , I deal in facts and the fact is there is no record what so ever of strength athletes in the United States using testosterone before Ziegler , I've yet to see one shred of proof
that's because I didn't argue that I could prove that reeves used. so it's obviously speculation. also look at the name of this board. you would be right on the money if the argument (mine) was 'proof that reeves used steroids'.
as for testosterone being around in the 40s and no strength athletes/bodybuilders using it is speculation on YOUR part. you don't know that. it's a possibility. and the positive effect part is something that YOU added to the discussion. not me.
it's MY opinion, based on what I have said in this thread , that it's very likely that bodybuilders experimented with testosterone long before ziegler did.
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that's because I didn't argue that I could prove that reeves used. so it's obviously speculation. also look at the name of this board. you would be right on the money if the argument (mine) was 'proof that reeves used steroids'.
as for testosterone being around in the 40s and no strength athletes/bodybuilders using it is speculation on YOUR part. you don't know that. it's a possibility. and the positive effect part is something that YOU added to the discussion. not me.
it's MY opinion, based on what I have said in this thread , that it's very likely that bodybuilders experimented with testosterone long before ziegler did.
I certainly believe that reeves was experimenting with testosterone...same as other bodybuilders...and they already did that in the 40s!
they already did that in the 40s , that's not speculation
as for testosterone being around in the 40s and no strength athletes/bodybuilders using it is speculation on YOUR part. you don't know that. it's a possibility. and the positive effect part is something that YOU added to the discussion. not me.
it's not speculation there is NO record for it none what so ever , we have a well established time line for the use of testosterone in strength athletes in the United States there is no record before this and why? because NO ONE was using before then that's why anything else is backed up with nothing and usually from someone who wants it to be in use before then.
it's MY opinion, based on what I have said in this thread , that it's very likely that bodybuilders experimented with testosterone long before ziegler did.
very likely? highly unlikely is more like it seeing there is nothing to back it up , you don't really bother with evidence when forming an opinion do you? vague references is enough for you.
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Did Roland have an outstanding chest? Coz gh15 claims that his chest was one of his best body parts.
;D
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I certainly believe that reeves was experimenting with testosterone...same as other bodybuilders...and they already did that in the 40s!
they already did that in the 40s , that's not speculation
of course it speculation (because I have no proof). what else would you call it? you yourself called it speculation. ???
and you don't need to tell me what I said, I know what I wrote earlier.
the "established" timeline you talk about started in the mid 30s when testosterone was first synthesized and it includes doctors prescribing it in the 40s.
look, I have nothing further to say. I don't want to play word-games with you. you are essentially arguing with yourself at this point as you are telling me what I write and what I mean with what I write. I find that kind of word-games very frustrating.
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of course it speculation (because I have no proof). what else would you call it? you yourself called it speculation. ???
and you don't need to tell me what I said, I know what I wrote earlier.
the "established" timeline you talk about started in the mid 30s when testosterone was first synthesized and it includes doctors prescribing it in the 40s.
You typed they already did that in the 40s that's not speculation
there you go again , it was synthesized in the 30s and doctors were prescribing it , this means what? yet NOT one single reference to any strength athlete in the United States using until Ziegler , long road from a mention in the 30s to being used by the masses in the 50s
To even speculate test was in use by athletes before Ziegler is really reaching there is simply nothing to back it up with
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You typed they already did that in the 40s that's not speculation
there you go again , it was synthesized in the 30s and doctors were prescribing it , this means what? yet NOT one single reference to any strength athlete in the United States using until Ziegler , long road from a mention in the 30s to being used by the masses in the 50s
To even speculate test was in use by athletes before Ziegler is really reaching there is simply nothing to back it up with
yes it is speculation because I have no proof. I can write something and it can be speculation at the same time.
look man, I give up. I'm here to have fun. discussing with you is just frustrating at this point as you are not even willing to admit the possibility (in my mind likely, in your mind not likely) that people in the USA actually experimented with testosterone before ziegler. I have clearly stated that I have no proof. I have nothing more to say (I would just be repeating myself).
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yes it is speculation because I have no proof. I can write something and it can be speculation (at the same time).
look man, I give up. I'm here to have fun. discussing with you is just frustrating at this point as you are not even willing to admit the possibility (in my mind likely, in your mind not likely) that people in the USA actually experimented with testosterone before ziegler. I have clearly stated that I have no proof. I have nothing more to say (I would just be repeating myself).
You've given up several times now ??? I wont admit the possibility of anyone using before Ziegler because there isn't anything that would leave me to think so , nothing what so ever , I researched high & low about drug use in the sport and nothing before the mid-1950s
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Reeves was 100% natural. As others have stated, you have only to look at photographs of him when he was in his teens to realize and accept the truth of this. He trained hard, ate well and rested as needed. Clancy Ross was another great that was all natural as was Dick Dubois and many, many others of the era. It is something of a fact that those that scream the loudest that Reeves was a doper are those that seek to justify their own drug use.
I remember seeing his movies and hearing women sigh at first sight of him. Women. Beautiful women. Fat women, skinny women, gorgeous, ugly, common, ravishing women. All women loved Reeves. A Steve Reeves comes along once in a great while and so far we have yet to see another like him. Like I said, women adored him and men wished they were him, or at least looked like him. I know I do.
I will never be built as well nor look as good as Reeves but that doesn't give me license to whine about how he must have taken drugs, even a small amount of testosterone to look as fantastic as he did. But then, I'm not a bitter little man. ;)
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Reeves was 100% natural. As others have stated, you have only to look at photographs of him when he was in his teens to realize and accept the truth of this. He trained hard, ate well and rested as needed. Clancy Ross was another great that was all natural as was Dick Dubois and many, many others of the era. It is something of a fact that those that scream the loudest that Reeves was a doper are those that seek to justify their own drug use.
I remember seeing his movies and hearing women sigh at first sight of him. Women. Beautiful women. Fat women, skinny women, gorgeous, ugly, common, ravishing women. All women loved Reeves. A Steve Reeves comes along once in a great while and so far we have yet to see another like him. Like I said, women adored him and men wished they were him, or at least looked like him. I know I do.
I will never be built as well nor look as good as Reeves but that doesn't give me license to whine about how he must have taken drugs, even a small amount of testosterone to look as fantastic as he did. But then, I'm not a bitter little man. ;)
it has nothing to do with being handome my friend,,reeves actually didnt have such impressive physiqe,,he had symetric physiqe,,the use of testosterona made it sa little thicker,,but impressive ...well depends what you see as impressive ,,he had an enhanced swimmer physiqe a physiqe kind of like if that old model marky mark decided to train hard...both he and reeves took test but reeves also trained seriously,,
you fellas need to understand that when you have stresses of life,,wars,,when you live in era like the 40s which was much more depmanding than oru era ,,,you just cant maintain the condition and the level of size reeves had with out syntetic help,,if you knew alittle not a lot but a little about how human body works,,if you knew a little not a lot about how the cult of bodybuilding works,,if you knew how we bodybuilder stop at nothing to get advancment,,we will not do anything if it hurt our bodybuilding,,we wont go out ,,we wont go to long trip,,we wont go and do service for no one if it take energy,,we are very very lazy ,,if you understood it ...you would know he was on test,,he was just too active and living in an era he coudnt even be 190 at his condition naturally,,
fella was experiemneting with test thus labeled a liar ,,small liar,,not lee priest level liar,,but never the less the beggining of the mess you see now days,,since you know now days bodybuilding is close to a joke ,,no one respect us,,you got steve reeves to blame for what we can call in a movie title ..."thie beggining;"
trust me when you gain money by lieing,,mark my words,,when you make money on lies,,you always pay the aultimate price,,he payed with it ,,his life,,he died prematurly at 70 something lonely miserable man with out any children ,,any thing to show for his life,,pretty much god revenge,,
now narcissit is crying right about now when reading it so before he get heart attack on me,,my friend it is not that serious,,you say your peace i say mine,,mine is right yours is wrong ,,the end:)
gh15 approved
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little correction ,,he did have something to show for his life,,he was ok actor,,and won few bodybuilding contest,,and put his name in the books,,thats quite an achivment,,so my bad he did have something to show,,but the punishment came from within ,,only he and his god can understand it ,,anyways no body gave a fuck then and it would actually be much better if we as bodybuilder would stuck in 80s because no one gave a flying fuck about what we took then much like the 50s and 40s
gh15 approved
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Hey Gh15 what do you think of the weight guidlines that Steve Reeves put in to his book in regards to natural training?
Height Ideal Weight
5’5” 160lbs
5’6” 165lbs
5’7” 170lbs
5’8” 175lbs
5’9” 180lbs
5’10” 185lbs
5’11” 190lbs
6’0” 200lbs
6’1” 210lbs
6’2” 220lbs
6’3” 230lbs
6’4” 240lbs
6’5” 250lbs
So most guys off the juice and sitting at a reasonable lean weight are going to be around this ballpark? They knew this shit fifty odd years ago...
all this does is disprove gh15s natural limits theory.
Reeves posts this as achievable for the 1950s era.
its 60 years on and people have better facilities, nutrition and knowledge, plus loads more people are weight training- meaning that the genetic pool is deeper.
you'd have to add 20 lbs to each bracket...take gh15's point about bodyfat though...these would be around 10% bfat. Still, 230lbs at 6'1 is about right, 10% bfat, for a natural. There'd still be gifted people getting to 240 or so...but the genetically endowed should be able to reach 230lb natural after around 10 years of training, with reasonable discipline and some sporting affinity.
that would align to lots that ive seen, and align well with other sports that have some weight training aspect such as rugby, afl football, swimming, boxing etc.
for instance:
ian thorpe- 6'5", 230lbs...remember he wasnt training for size or weight- and in fact all his events were a minute or so long- meaning he is in the aerobic category of athlete- i.e. equivalent to a 400m or 800m runner.
jonah lomuh, 6'5" 260lbs...rugby..again not training for size or weight..but much more so than swimming.
most afl football players run 10-20km per game...and they average 6'0" and 185lbs...they are also on the low end of bodyfat. these guys often put on 20kg in the first 6 months after they stop playing..bringing them to well over 200lbs and still in the lean range of bodyfat- they still dont train for size.
maurice greene- 5'9", 180lbs. and pretty darn lean...well under 10%. still not training for size/strength.
theres plenty more around to give lots of clues as to whos right and who isnt.
danny green- ibo cruiserweight is 6'1" and diets down to 200lbs. he is 220lbs most of the year..he trains mostly for endurance.
you can see that this is building up evidence to enable someone to make some judgments.
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In the context we're talking about testosterone wasn't ' around ' in the context of being use with positive results by strength athletes. And you're drawing your own conclusions by claiming they knew about testosterone before Ziegler , which leads one to believe they knew about it , it was somehow available and they used it successfully , people knew about testosterone for centuries it doesn't mean it was in use.
Ironically I don't like the way you discuss things either by drawing conclusions based on vague references , it has nothing to do with me getting the last word. And there you go again ' chances are ' I don't deal in chances or bullshit , I deal in facts and the fact is there is no record what so ever of strength athletes in the United States using testosterone before Ziegler , I've yet to see one shred of proof
There is a pretty detailed record of drug use in the United States and it wasn't until years after Reeves retired.
ND is right. test was "known"...but about all. pig extraction and the like... nothing a gym rat (they were not even able to be rats back then as it was pretty rare to weight train at all)..could get their hands on..even with the best contacts.
reeves should be considered drug free...and it was 1940s....they were experimenting with everything...had vague ideas of what to do and how and why..nothing to make training efficient.
using his guidelines- if they were formed from that era, would be being very conservative. if however he was writing them retrospectively then they'd be closer to reality.
for each 10 years you'd have to add a few lbs to the limits- just like average expected lifespan, things are improving for many reasons..and again, more people are exercising.
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*INTERMISSION*
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=35771.0;attach=378328;image)
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You've given up several times now ??? I wont admit the possibility of anyone using before Ziegler because there isn't anything that would leave me to think so , nothing what so ever , I researched high & low about drug use in the sport and nothing before the mid-1950s
you cant really argue this.
id add that even though ziegler created them in the 1950s, they didnt really filter to gym use until very late 1950s and early 1960s- and track athletes got their hands on them earlier- thats when it really started to end up with weight training..still, the dosages were low initially..
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it has nothing to do with being handome my friend,,reeves actually didnt have such impressive physiqe,,he had symetric physiqe,,the use of testosterona made it sa little thicker,,but impressive ...well depends what you see as impressive ,,he had an enhanced swimmer physiqe a physiqe kind of like if that old model marky mark decided to train hard...both he and reeves took test but reeves also trained seriously,,
you fellas need to understand that when you have stresses of life,,wars,,when you live in era like the 40s which was much more depmanding than oru era ,,,you just cant maintain the condition and the level of size reeves had with out syntetic help,,if you knew alittle not a lot but a little about how human body works,,if you knew a little not a lot about how the cult of bodybuilding works,,if you knew how we bodybuilder stop at nothing to get advancment,,we will not do anything if it hurt our bodybuilding,,we wont go out ,,we wont go to long trip,,we wont go and do service for no one if it take energy,,we are very very lazy ,,if you understood it ...you would know he was on test,,he was just too active and living in an era he coudnt even be 190 at his condition naturally,,
fella was experiemneting with test thus labeled a liar ,,small liar,,not lee priest level liar,,but never the less the beggining of the mess you see now days,,since you know now days bodybuilding is close to a joke ,,no one respect us,,you got steve reeves to blame for what we can call in a movie title ..."thie beggining;"
trust me when you gain money by lieing,,mark my words,,when you make money on lies,,you always pay the aultimate price,,he payed with it ,,his life,,he died prematurly at 70 something lonely miserable man with out any children ,,any thing to show for his life,,pretty much god revenge,,
now narcissit is crying right about now when reading it so before he get heart attack on me,,my friend it is not that serious,,you say your peace i say mine,,mine is right yours is wrong ,,the end:)
gh15 approved
every once in a while you give some information that is based on fact..which is good, and is obviously from your exposure to black market, dealers, and users...so its interesting.
but the other 99% of the time you talk shit and have a biased opinion that everyone uses loads of gear and nothing is possible without it- because you've never hung with clean athletes so dont have a clue about what is possible.
in addition you dont have a clue what synthetics potentiate and enhance others because your understanding of cause and effect is so fundamentally basic, and the myriads of interactions so numerous that you arrive at incorrect conclusions based on anecdotal reports from drug abusers.
so really you have to learn when to shut the fuck up, honestly.
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little correction ,,he did have something to show for his life,,he was ok actor,,and won few bodybuilding contest,,and put his name in the books,,thats quite an achivment,,so my bad he did have something to show,,but the punishment came from within ,,only he and his god can understand it ,,anyways no body gave a fuck then and it would actually be much better if we as bodybuilder would stuck in 80s because no one gave a flying fuck about what we took then much like the 50s and 40s
gh15 approved
lmao ' correction ' which means as usual you don't know what you're talking about. He was the highest paid actor of his time , he saved and invested his money wisely , retired on his terms a wealthy man and raised prize winning Morgan horses on his ranch.
He was Arnold's archetype , he won a few bodybuilding contests? he won all the greatest contests of his day and retired from the sport at just 24 because he won every major title and he died prematurely at 70? lmfao now you're reduced to speculating he could have lived longer , hey wait maybe it was his heavy drug use? all that test , those test tablets and insulin you claimed he took ;D
the best part is you don't even believe 99.99 percent of the shit you type and neither does anyone else with a brain , I don't know who is more dumb you or the 00.01% that does believe you ;)
You think by typing this nonsense show how you're getting a rise out of me or anyone who claims Reeves was natural but ultimately the jokes on you because in the end you're the one who is bullshitting yourself.
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lmao ' correction ' which means as usual you don't know what you're talking about. He was the highest paid actor of his time , he saved and invested his money wisely , retired on his terms a wealthy man and raised prize winning Morgan horses on his ranch.
He was Arnold's archetype , he won a few bodybuilding contests? he won all the greatest contests of his day and retired from the sport at just 24 because he won every major title and he died prematurely at 70? lmfao now you're reduced to speculating he could have lived longer , hey wait maybe it was his heavy drug use? all that test , those test tablets and insulin you claimed he took ;D
the best part is you don't even believe 99.99 percent of the shit you type and neither does anyone else with a brain , I don't know who is more dumb you or the 00.01% that does believe you ;)
You think by typing this nonsense show how you're getting a rise out of me or anyone who claims Reeves was natural but ultimately the jokes on you because in the end you're the one who is bullshitting yourself.
there is no question that he experiemented with testosterona,,that every serious bodybuilder know,,not only my followers which is practically 90% of each board on internet now days,,
you actually remind me thoe type of fellas that have this so called friend in the military,,,they say he is their friend because he went to hgih school with them for coupl eyears,,then fella go to military live in some state liek no where to be found wisconsin and you are in yoru old no where to be found original town lol...then that fella get back once in a while from military and is 200lb 8% 5'10 and tell you oh steroids are for bodybuilder i dont like steroids its gay,,im all natural i work hard and become very strong because i eat a lot,, that same so called friend of yours ...party his as,,get all the girls,,dont give a flying fuck about the way you eat all seriously aiming at bodybuilding he just eat whatever he want,,yet he show you 200lb 8% and you stuck with your 181 10% on protien powder and creatine lol,,you get the idea here friend? you are goooooleeeeble,,everyone on this site can tell it not only gh15,,you would still fight and claim to others that your friend is all hard work and genetics,,oh he is superb elite,,oh he is just one of a kind,,you will take that military friend of yours which ofcourse is a lieing piece of buddy lol and tell anyone that that guy will wipe the floor with the biggest juicer in your gym because he have marvelous genetics and just very good at lifting weights lol,,you remind me that type of guy that would have a 'friend' of this kind,,
you are just the type of guy that will go all out protecting hormonized lifters because they say they are naturals lol atleast some have the decency to say clean when they lie ,,but no some mother fuckers say NATURALS LOL
i understand steve reeves was from old generation and a hero to you k,,but he was also a scambag liar piece of shit ,,friendless no real friends what so ever,,why no friends? because types like that can not have friends,,they are all evoloved around themselves and that includes hrmones and any advancment in bodybuilding,,its a lot of psycology my firiend,,revve went into lonely death ,,left no family behind HIS WAS SHOOTING BLANKKKKKKS noswimmers lol he was a lot less than the hero you describe ,,he was a liar ,,small liar but still a liar,,he died youg 73 is young especially in americana which all the spoild life americanos have,,he died not natural death he died of CANCER!,,he was not a healthy man ,,it is a lie ,,he was a sick lonely man ,,he left the world like he came into it lonely soul,,he was narcsistic in his nature ,,nothing woudl stop him from geting advantage especially when others were experiemnting too,,
you got to understand you are talking here about a sub normal individual,,someone that belong in a time were no one care about hormones and he used it to its best advantage,,zigler came much later MUCH LATER,,zigler was just like the stamp on an already known phenomenon to bodybuilder called H O R M O N E S ,,again not in the doses and selections of today ,,in their rough form ,,but never the less still hormones,,
gh15 approved
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there is no question that he experiemented with testosterona,,that every serious bodybuilder know,,not only my followers which is practically 90% of each board on internet now days,,
you actually remind me thoe type of fellas that have this so called friend in the military,,,they say he is their friend because he went to hgih school with them for coupl eyears,,then fella go to military live in some state liek no where to be found wisconsin and you are in yoru old no where to be found original town lol...then that fella get back once in a while from military and is 200lb 8% 5'10 and tell you oh steroids are for bodybuilder i dont like steroids its gay,,im all natural i work hard and become very strong because i eat a lot,, that same so called friend of yours ...party his as,,get all the girls,,dont give a flying fuck about the way you eat all seriously aiming at bodybuilding he just eat whatever he want,,yet he show you 200lb 8% and you stuck with your 181 10% on protien powder and creatine lol,,you get the idea here friend? you are goooooleeeeble,,everyone on this site can tell it not only gh15,,you would still fight and claim to others that your friend is all hard work and genetics,,oh he is superb elite,,oh he is just one of a kind,,you will take that military friend of yours which ofcourse is a lieing piece of buddy lol and tell anyone that that guy will wipe the floor with the biggest juicer in your gym because he have marvelous genetics and just very good at lifting weights lol,,you remind me that type of guy that would have a 'friend' of this kind,,
you are just the type of guy that will go all out protecting hormonized lifters because they say they are naturals lol atleast some have the decency to say clean when they lie ,,but no some mother fuckers say NATURALS LOL
i understand steve reeves was from old generation and a hero to you k,,but he was also a scambag liar piece of shit ,,friendless no real friends what so ever,,why no friends? because types like that can not have friends,,they are all evoloved around themselves and that includes hrmones and any advancment in bodybuilding,,its a lot of psycology my firiend,,revve went into lonely death ,,left no family behind HIS WAS SHOOTING BLANKKKKKKS noswimmers lol he was a lot less than the hero you describe ,,he was a liar ,,small liar but still a liar,,he died youg 73 is young especially in americana which all the spoild life americanos have,,he died not natural death he died of CANCER!,,he was not a healthy man ,,it is a lie ,,he was a sick lonely man ,,he left the world like he came into it lonely soul,,he was narcsistic in his nature ,,nothing woudl stop him from geting advantage especially when others were experiemnting too,,
you got to understand you are talking here about a sub normal individual,,someone that belong in a time were no one care about hormones and he used it to its best advantage,,zigler came much later MUCH LATER,,zigler was just like the stamp on an already known phenomenon to bodybuilder called H O R M O N E S ,,again not in the doses and selections of today ,,in their rough form ,,but never the less still hormones,,
gh15 approved
Aren't you contradicting yourself here GH15? You call all these bodybuilders that lie, scumbags but you are doing the same thing. Here you tell the truth because you hide behind a screen name but you would never talk this candidly face to face or with doing an interview for a magazine. So what say you?
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Aren't you contradicting yourself here GH15? You call all these bodybuilders that lie, scumbags but you are doing the same thing. Here you tell the truth because you hide behind a screen name but you would never talk this candidly face to face or with doing an interview for a magazine. So what say you?
yep i was a scambag too,,never to the level of priest though,,i really dispize priest ,,i want him out of bodybuilding for good and im gonna do anything in my power that this fella dont see the gear he needs,,and if he does he will look like shit because it wil be bunk,,lee priest sucesfuly made me mad and its not good,,
also,, the reason im annonymous is because i got tired of the lies of the priests well there is only one liar at the level of priest,,but the other liars so the only way i could ay the truth was with out revealing identity because if i did id stay with no bodybuilding,,theys be kick me out ,,even better probably try to kill me,,
gh15 approved
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there is no question that he experiemented with testosterona,,that every serious bodybuilder know,,not only my followers which is practically 90% of each board on internet now days,,
you actually remind me thoe type of fellas that have this so called friend in the military,,,they say he is their friend because he went to hgih school with them for coupl eyears,,then fella go to military live in some state liek no where to be found wisconsin and you are in yoru old no where to be found original town lol...then that fella get back once in a while from military and is 200lb 8% 5'10 and tell you oh steroids are for bodybuilder i dont like steroids its gay,,im all natural i work hard and become very strong because i eat a lot,, that same so called friend of yours ...party his as,,get all the girls,,dont give a flying fuck about the way you eat all seriously aiming at bodybuilding he just eat whatever he want,,yet he show you 200lb 8% and you stuck with your 181 10% on protien powder and creatine lol,,you get the idea here friend? you are goooooleeeeble,,everyone on this site can tell it not only gh15,,you would still fight and claim to others that your friend is all hard work and genetics,,oh he is superb elite,,oh he is just one of a kind,,you will take that military friend of yours which ofcourse is a lieing piece of buddy lol and tell anyone that that guy will wipe the floor with the biggest juicer in your gym because he have marvelous genetics and just very good at lifting weights lol,,you remind me that type of guy that would have a 'friend' of this kind,,
you are just the type of guy that will go all out protecting hormonized lifters because they say they are naturals lol atleast some have the decency to say clean when they lie ,,but no some mother fuckers say NATURALS LOL
i understand steve reeves was from old generation and a hero to you k,,but he was also a scambag liar piece of shit ,,friendless no real friends what so ever,,why no friends? because types like that can not have friends,,they are all evoloved around themselves and that includes hrmones and any advancment in bodybuilding,,its a lot of psycology my firiend,,revve went into lonely death ,,left no family behind HIS WAS SHOOTING BLANKKKKKKS noswimmers lol he was a lot less than the hero you describe ,,he was a liar ,,small liar but still a liar,,he died youg 73 is young especially in americana which all the spoild life americanos have,,he died not natural death he died of CANCER!,,he was not a healthy man ,,it is a lie ,,he was a sick lonely man ,,he left the world like he came into it lonely soul,,he was narcsistic in his nature ,,nothing woudl stop him from geting advantage especially when others were experiemnting too,,
you got to understand you are talking here about a sub normal individual,,someone that belong in a time were no one care about hormones and he used it to its best advantage,,zigler came much later MUCH LATER,,zigler was just like the stamp on an already known phenomenon to bodybuilder called H O R M O N E S ,,again not in the doses and selections of today ,,in their rough form ,,but never the less still hormones,,
gh15 approved
great post
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Aren't you contradicting yourself here GH15? You call all these bodybuilders that lie, scumbags but you are doing the same thing. Here you tell the truth because you hide behind a screen name but you would never talk this candidly face to face or with doing an interview for a magazine. So what say you?
gh15 already posted that he is a pathological liar.....you just can't expect to think everything he (or them) types is serious. :D
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http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/history/topic/46705-1.html
even sergio oliva believed reeves used em, take it for what its worth.
there's no way to prove this argument one way or the other, but there was a time when 99% of american sports fans thought there was no way baseball players used steroids. oh maybe a few guys, 'assholes like conseco'. they didnt want to believe. there was no proof of it. it wasnt needed to or even helpful in that sport, etc.
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lee and i hate eachother with passion,,he is a liar the worst in history of bodybuilkding one of the worst,,and mishko...well mishko talk for himself with his action of arrested every monday and friday he go with the flow btu he very well know im right,, who the fuck is nodic? gimik? do you think i hav etime to get gimicks my friend ,,if i had a dime for how many times every one immitate me proclaimingto be me trying to get in touch with me ,,trying to ask for my advice ,,and trying to say gh15 send me or said so,, id be even richer than what i am now,,
the reality of things is the any professional face to face if really know you will tell you gh15 is the real deal ,,and reason im anonimous is because my life would be at risk otherwise,,there is no friend in bodybuilding you need ot know it,,absolitly no friend,,there are a lot of fellons though...
gh15 approved
Striking similarities:
this is a list of the things you have to have inorder to become a good bodybuilder in 2010,,
1. money,,you have to have some form of continuous financial support because you are in need to remain on hormones consistantly ,,there is no off times,, period
2. H G H ,,human growth hormone is in today bodybuilding a must,,you WILL NEVER SEE the number 220+ 6% 5'9with out gh,,
3. THE USE OF GH HAS TO BE CONSISTANT ENOUGH AS IN INCASE YOU GET OFF AAS YOU NEED TO HAVE GH IN SYSTEM TO MUSCLE FIBER CONTINUE TO CREATE AND WHEN GO BACK ON AAS IT EXPLODE
4. LEARN THIS: TESTOSTERONE,,EQIPONA,,TRENBOLONA,,MASTERONA,,VERY IMPORTANT MUST HAVE STEROIDS
5. DIURETICS ARE A MUST!,,BUT MORE OF A MUST IS TO KNWO HOW TO USE THEM! AND WHAT KIND OF DURETIC YOUR BODY WILL WORK BETTER WITH,,THE REASON YOU SEE BODYBUILDER COME IN GYM LIFTG HIS SHIRT AND SHOW HIS ABS SHREDDED WITH THE TUNNELS AS IN SKIN SUCKED IN WHILE MAINTAINING 230LB AND YET SITTING AT 7% IS DIURETIC,,NO NOT AI OR AE ,,REASON IS DIURETICS,,THE REASON THEY ARE 7% IS BECAUSE THE FAT IS LAYING INSIDE THE MUSCLE,,,THE WATER IS VERY LOW DUE TO DIURETIC THAT IS BEING EXPRIEMENTED WITH ALL ALONG BOGH COMPETITION AND OFFSESON WHICH IS BASICALLY ONE BGI CYCLE AL YEAR LONG
6. OIL,,YEP SEO,,TODAY BODYBUILDER USE SEO,,SOME PULL IT SOME DONT,,BUT REASON SO MANY HAVE 20 INCH ARM AT 5'8 NOW DAYS IS SEO YES HGH HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE SIZE ,,BUT THE SEO IS THERE TOO,,YOU NEED TO KNWO HOW TO APPLY IT AND HOW TO WORK IT IN ,,IT TAKES A GOOD BODYBUILDER TO DO IT RIGHT,,GH15 DOES NOT BELIEVE IN SEO JUST SO ITS UNDERSTOOD
7. INSULIN ,,YES IT IS USED,,I WILL NTO SAY DOSES BUT SOME GO VERY VERY HIGH ,,THIS IS ALSO WHAT RUINED BODYBUILDIGN AND I WISH IT WASSNT A MUST FOR HIGH COMPETETIVE LEVEL BUT UNTIL JUDGES WISE UP IT IS ,,IT WILL ONE DAY BE CANCELLED AND GO BACK TO GH AND AAS BUT UNTILL THEN INSULIN A MUST FOR HIGH COMPETETIVE LEVEL
8 FOOD,,NUTRITION ,,WHEN YOU HAVE GH IN BLOOD ESPECIALLY 5 UNITS AND OVER,,YOUI BAICALLY CAN EAT ALL DAY LONG NONE STOP AND YOU NEED TO ! YOU DONT EAT YOU DONT GROW TO YOUR FULL POTENTIAL ON HGH,,INFACT IF YOU DONT EAT A LOT YOU WILL BURN FAT TOO FAST,,YES THERE IS SUCH A THING AS BURNING FAT TOO FAST EVEN FOR GH BECAUSE IT TAKES LITTLE TIME TILL YOU START NOTICE THE NEW FIBERS AND IN THAT TIME BEFORE HAND YOU NEED TO EAT AND EAT A LOT
9 YOU NEED GENETIC RESPONSE THAT IS PHENOMINAL ,,YOU WILL KNOW IT WITHIN 3 MONTHS ON GH AND AAS IF YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES
10 YOU NEED LEGIT DRUGS ,,AND THAT MEANS GOOD SOURCE,, GURU ,, SPONSOR ETC WHICH BRING ME TO POINT ONE,,THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN BODYBUILDIGN IS YOUR SOURCE! WITH OUT YOUR SOURCE YOU ARE NOTHING ,,AND YOU WILL REMAIN NOTHING,,GOOD SOURCE IS THE MAIN KEY IN GETTING TO THE TOP
gh15 approved
from md:
Quote Originally Posted by nordic View Post
its funny how all the members here worship the drug hgh. lmao thats basically what you guys do, i mean its known that everyone uses it and the higher the dose the bigger the bodybuilder, but to sit on a board day in day out and lie to yourself, give compliments, saying good hard work...yada yada who are you guys lieing to?
both the women and men on this board, many of them adults lol, sit and lie, this is really a strange thing to witness
this is to the fans/regular members lol
when will you understand that BB is all gh? when will you understand that those are drug addicts that the only reason they grow is the use of gh and then anabolic steroids that blow up those new cells gh causes? when will you understand that the better your response is to the doses the more drug intake you can take...the better you become as a BB?
you have here guys who sit and really believe in this hard work BS lol, guys it is all the products you are on, the doses you are on, and your response to those doses,
but today, due to the homone called GH, you can be subaverage build and grow into PRO size, you guys got to get your head out of your ass, dont let time teach you a lesson, learn it before time teaches you that.
you have here drug addicts, me included i admit, that sit and worship eachother while lieing about the reason they are where they are. this is the reason BB never got anywhere and never will.
its almost like an unspoken understanding to lie about the use and abuse of those products, this is real bad, wise up guys, wise up.
just admit you created that nordic account and got scared away. I even remember you were posting the same thing of equipona, testosterona, masterona, trenbolona over there too and got called out on it and you couldn't answer.
-
Striking similarities:
from md:
just admit you created that nordic account and got scared away. I even remember you were posting the same thing of equipona, testosterona, masterona, trenbolona over there too and got called out on it and you couldn't answer.
do you really think i would not answer? do yuio know me like that? i answer anything in time,,i always answer when its important argument,,my pride is important to me and you know that,,i dont know who the fella is but its NOT GH15,,he write like me which is more of a psycotic phenomenon ,,you fella became crazy over this gh15 character ,,im sitting here and quite in shock i have seen many who write very close btu this is the closest,,
id never go on that site because it is full of lies ,,it is built around the idea of lies inorder to make yourself fell better,,very bad site,,so even if they pay me and they offered me contract to write colomn on there as gh15 ,,i refused,,they wanted gh15 more than they wanted wanted even centefuny but i knew it would be a fight waiting to happen and it was more for rating on internet due to the way the board operate bsed on lies
gh15 approved
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there is no question that he experiemented with testosterona,,that every serious bodybuilder know,,not only my followers which is practically 90% of each board on internet now days,,
you actually remind me thoe type of fellas that have this so called friend in the military,,,they say he is their friend because he went to hgih school with them for coupl eyears,,then fella go to military live in some state liek no where to be found wisconsin and you are in yoru old no where to be found original town lol...then that fella get back once in a while from military and is 200lb 8% 5'10 and tell you oh steroids are for bodybuilder i dont like steroids its gay,,im all natural i work hard and become very strong because i eat a lot,, that same so called friend of yours ...party his as,,get all the girls,,dont give a flying fuck about the way you eat all seriously aiming at bodybuilding he just eat whatever he want,,yet he show you 200lb 8% and you stuck with your 181 10% on protien powder and creatine lol,,you get the idea here friend? you are goooooleeeeble,,everyone on this site can tell it not only gh15,,you would still fight and claim to others that your friend is all hard work and genetics,,oh he is superb elite,,oh he is just one of a kind,,you will take that military friend of yours which ofcourse is a lieing piece of buddy lol and tell anyone that that guy will wipe the floor with the biggest juicer in your gym because he have marvelous genetics and just very good at lifting weights lol,,you remind me that type of guy that would have a 'friend' of this kind,,
you are just the type of guy that will go all out protecting hormonized lifters because they say they are naturals lol atleast some have the decency to say clean when they lie ,,but no some mother fuckers say NATURALS LOL
i understand steve reeves was from old generation and a hero to you k,,but he was also a scambag liar piece of shit ,,friendless no real friends what so ever,,why no friends? because types like that can not have friends,,they are all evoloved around themselves and that includes hrmones and any advancment in bodybuilding,,its a lot of psycology my firiend,,revve went into lonely death ,,left no family behind HIS WAS SHOOTING BLANKKKKKKS noswimmers lol he was a lot less than the hero you describe ,,he was a liar ,,small liar but still a liar,,he died youg 73 is young especially in americana which all the spoild life americanos have,,he died not natural death he died of CANCER!,,he was not a healthy man ,,it is a lie ,,he was a sick lonely man ,,he left the world like he came into it lonely soul,,he was narcsistic in his nature ,,nothing woudl stop him from geting advantage especially when others were experiemnting too,,
you got to understand you are talking here about a sub normal individual,,someone that belong in a time were no one care about hormones and he used it to its best advantage,,zigler came much later MUCH LATER,,zigler was just like the stamp on an already known phenomenon to bodybuilder called H O R M O N E S ,,again not in the doses and selections of today ,,in their rough form ,,but never the less still hormones,,
gh15 approved
Great post.
These naive tools that swear Reeves was natural....BECAUSE HE SAID SO.....make me laugh
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MD is a fucking embarassment
But my training partner bought Flex this month and we were pissing ourselves laughing at an article saying no pro's were on gear, hahahaha
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Come on fellas! Just because one takes gear doesn't make him a bad guy and it doesn't mean that he is a lesser human being.
-
Striking similarities:
from md:
just admit you created that nordic account and got scared away. I even remember you were posting the same thing of equipona, testosterona, masterona, trenbolona over there too and got called out on it and you couldn't answer.
lmao that is without a doubt g101 immitating gh15. g101 was banned on olm for copying gh15 posts claiming bbing is all drugs, which is true of course but olm is dellusional. so I think nordic MAY be g101 or gh15 probably 101
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lmao that is without a doubt g101 immitating gh15. g101 was banned on olm for copying gh15 posts claiming bbing is all drugs, which is true of course but olm is dellusional. so I think nordic MAY be g101 or gh15 probably 101
Who is g101? Does he post here?
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Great post.
These naive tools that swear Reeves was natural....BECAUSE HE SAID SO.....make me laugh
Only because he said so? not accurate lets also factor in that we know for a fact anabolics weren't created in the United States until years after he retired and there is NO record what so ever of any strength athlete in the United States using test before doctor John Ziegler , who abandoned the use of testosterone because it yielded no results what so ever , it's more than just his word you should try and pay attention to the thread but my speculation is you're not hear following just trolling which is nothing new for you.
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Only because he said so? not accurate lets also factor in that we know for a fact anabolics weren't created in the United States until years after he retired and there is NO record what so ever of any strength athlete in the United States using test before doctor John Ziegler , who abandoned the use of testosterone because it yielded no results what so ever , it's more than just his word you should try and pay attention to the thread but my speculation is you're not hear following just trolling which is nothing new for you.
Did you miss this because you never responded to it, despite requesting it and it directly contradicts what you are saying above:
here is some more info about the book I mentioned:
http://nsrc.sfsu.edu/article/testosterone_dreams
Testosterone became a charismatic drug during the 1940s because it promised sexual stimulation and renewed energy. Physicians described the optimal effect of testosterone drugs as a feeling of “well-being,” a term that has been used many times since the 1940s to characterize their positive effect on mood. In the early 1940s testosterone was hailed in pharmaceutical advertising as a mood-altering drug whose primary purpose was the sexual restoration and reenergizing of aging males. It appeared at that time that an inexpensive supply, widespread demand, and favorable medical opinion would soon produce a major market for testosterone products.
The first public advocate of testosterone therapy for aging men was the popular science journalist Paul de Kruif, whose manifesto The Male Hormone was published with some fanfare in 1945. Excerpted in Reader’s Digest and promoted by a full-page review in Newsweek (“Hormones for He-Men”), The Male Hormone was in some respects a prophetic book. The potential market for a rejuvenating male hormone seemed to be enormous: “How many millions of American males, not the men they used to be, would flock to the physicians and the druggist, a bit shame-faced and surreptitious, maybe, but hopeful, murmuring: ‘Doc, how about some of this new male hormone?’”
Testosterone did not become a mass market drug in the 1940s due to the sexual conservatism of most American physicians and the society they served. The belief that testosterone was a stimulating drug made it a potential threat to sexual morality as well as a promising therapy. Sensational coverage had given the male hormone a quasi-pornographic image that its female counterpart estrogen had never acquired. Commenting on testosterone’s unsavory reputation in 1946, Science Digest reported that “the uninformed continue to believe that the sole use of this innocent chemical is to turn sexual weaklings into wolves, and octogenarians into sexual athletes.”
The 1940s also saw the use of testosterone therapy as an experimental “cure” for homosexuality. The medical view of homosexuality as a type of endocrine deficiency made the use of testosterone propionate to reverse homosexual orientation virtually predictable. As one physician in 1940 put it: “If homosexuality is merely the result of an endocrine disturbance, the prospect for its cure must be excellent today.”
The idea that the bodies of homosexuals contained less male hormone and more female hormone than those of heterosexuals first appeared in 1935. By 1940 a number of investigators were confident enough in their ability to assay hormone levels to claim that homosexuality was rooted in abnormal sex hormone ratios rather than the psychological complexes hypothesized by Freud and others. “It seems,” one research team wrote, “that the constitutional homosexual has a different sex hormone chemistry than the normal male.” The fallacy of this therapeutic rationale became evident soon enough. Testosterone propionate combined with chorionic gonadotropin was not curing homosexuals, even in studies that encouraged belief in the drug and did not compare its effects with those of a placebo. In fact, it was becoming increasingly clear that androgens did not reverse but actually intensified homosexual libido, so that “sometimes instead of helping one gets a worsening of the condition.”
Prescription for women?
Testosterone drugs were also the favored pharmacological technique of the 1940s for treating sexual “frigidity” in women. Testosterone propionate ointment could be applied to the vulva or clitoris to increase genital sensitivity. Testosterone could be injected or pellets implanted under the skin to intensify libido. By 1943 testosterone propionate was reported to be in widespread use to treat women with sexual and other endocrine disorders
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Great post.
These naive tools that swear Reeves was natural....BECAUSE HE SAID SO.....make me laugh
Huh?
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Great post.
These naive tools that swear Reeves was natural....BECAUSE HE SAID SO.....make me laugh
So he wasn't natural because you and gh15 say so?
Irony?
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So he wasn't natural because you and gh15 say so?
Irony?
HA. Who are you going to believe, the dead genetic marvel or the losers?
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Only because he said so? not accurate lets also factor in that we know for a fact anabolics weren't created in the United States until years after he retired and there is NO record what so ever of any strength athlete in the United States using test before doctor John Ziegler , who abandoned the use of testosterone because it yielded no results what so ever , it's more than just his word you should try and pay attention to the thread but my speculation is you're not hear following just trolling which is nothing new for you.
half the bodybuilder in usa order omnas from europe on a regular basis,,all comes from poland ,,ask tbomb he can tel you ,,many bodybuildign in usa prefer europian stuff ,,you have mail now day ,,but there is always the good ole remailer,,or in the old times the good ole friend or yourself who trsaveled to europe,,,wether for war...or for sight seeing,,or for work,,,and guess what...was on the steroidland
gh15 approved
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half the bodybuilder in usa order omnas from europe on a regular basis,,all comes from poland ,,ask tbomb he can tel you ,,many bodybuildign in usa prefer europian stuff ,,you have mail now day ,,but there is always the good ole remailer,,or in the old times the good ole friend or yourself who trsaveled to europe,,,wether for war...or for sight seeing,,or for work,,,and guess what...was on the steroidland
gh15 approved
There you go trying to prove your point by using the status quo for this day and age and think it applies 70 years ago , you do that when you type that all bodybuilders lie about their use , there would be no reason what so ever for Reeves to lie because they wouldn't have been illegal your claims just don't make any sense
We have an established time-line of drug use in the United States and you're claiming ( without any proof what so ever ) that Reeves predates all of this
ll reliable sources - publications by Terry Todd, John Fair, Randy Roach, Bill Starr, etc, as well as interviews and letters from John Ziegler, John Grimek, Bill March, etc - indicate that experimentation with testosterone for athletic purposes began in the U.S. sometime in either late 1954 or 1955. These 'trials' were short-lived, however, as the results were disappointing and testosterone use was deemed ineffective and carried the risk of harmful side-effects. A statistical analysis of Olympic-style Weightlifting performances published in the International Journal of the History of Sport concluded that Soviet athletes likely first used testosterone sometime between 1952 and 1956.
Ziegler learned from the Russians that they were using test on their weightlifters in 1954 ( still years after Reeves retired ) and he was the first one to attempt to use inject-able testosterone on weightlifters were ' deemed ineffective ' and carried ' harmful side-effects ' which is why he created Dianbol to have the same advantages and without the harmful side-effects
If you have any proof you would have posted it by now but as we established many times over you don't have anything and other than rumors , innuendo , lies and conspiracy theories , which is why the morons of this site like you , it's par for the course on GetBig
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So he wasn't natural because you and gh15 say so?
Irony?
yeah it is and no proof what so ever either.
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215lbs at 6'1 and 9-10% would actually be less size than GH15 outlined for naturals lol.
The guy is a confused, jealous, bitter individual, who tends to contradict himself every other post.
There is nothing to suggest that Reeves was on anything. End of story.
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215lbs at 6'1 and 9-10% would actually be less size than GH15 outlined for naturals lol.
The guy is a confused, jealous, bitter individual, who tends to contradict himself every other post.
There is nothing to suggest that Reeves was on anything. End of story.
I agree , I have no problem with steroids and I think that anyone who wants to take them should be able to legally. with that being said what he types is just utter bullshit , he's not only claiming Reeves predates the established timeline of test use in this country , he's also claiming to know what he was on , how long he was on what he used together it's an impossibility for him to know even if it were true , so in the end he's full of shit as usual.
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215lbs at 6'1 and 9-10% would actually be less size than GH15 outlined for naturals lol.
The guy is a confused, jealous, bitter individual, who tends to contradict himself every other post.
There is nothing to suggest that Reeves was on anything. End of story.
I agree , I have no problem with steroids and I think that anyone who wants to take them should be able to legally. with that being said what he types is just utter bullshit , he's not only claiming Reeves predates the established timeline of test use in this country , he's also claiming to know what he was on , how long he was on what he used together it's an impossibility for him to know even if it were true , so in the end he's full of shit as usual.
Gentlemen I agree. It's like I said, those that are jealous and take dope will often try to justify their drug habit by stating someone like Steve Reeves also used drugs to build his physique. This is a common tactic used by many people across many areas, e.g., " If Reeves used drugs to build what is arguably the finest, most classically inspired physique ever, then it's perfectly justifiable that I do so."
As to the body fat level of Steve, I am unaware of anyone knowing this much less if it was ever tested back then but I suppose one could try and make an educated guess via photographs. All I do know is that his physique type is what I strive for and this in spite of my lack of that type of height, structure and good looks. When I was younger I trained to bulk up so that when I walked into a room, people would freak out at my relative size. Now I want only to be admired by my fellow man and have women furtively glance with desire. Bill Pearl once said that when Reeves walked into a room, everyone looked because you knew that what was before you was what man was meant to look like.
I have nothing really against gh15. He and I will always differ on drug use but I suspect we agree on a variety of other topics. It could be that I know him and have trained alongside him at one time or another. I recognize the writing style and there are cues contained therein, but I respect his desire for anonymity and will abide by it.
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Once again, Reeves wasn't 9-10% bodyfat, from his "in shaped and conditioned photos, aka at his peak" he was 6-7% so therefore, he doesn't fit into gh15's "natural limit guidelines"
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Once again, Reeves wasn't 9-10% bodyfat, from his "in shaped and conditioned photos, aka at his peak" he was 6-7% so therefore, he doesn't fit into gh15's "natural limit guidelines"
Find a picture of him at 6%, i won't hold my breath. He stll fits in to the imbeciles guidlines anyway if memory serves.
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There you go trying to prove your point by using the status quo for this day and age and think it applies 70 years ago , you do that when you type that all bodybuilders lie about their use , there would be no reason what so ever for Reeves to lie because they wouldn't have been illegal your claims just don't make any sense
We have an established time-line of drug use in the United States and you're claiming ( without any proof what so ever ) that Reeves predates all of this
ll reliable sources - publications by Terry Todd, John Fair, Randy Roach, Bill Starr, etc, as well as interviews and letters from John Ziegler, John Grimek, Bill March, etc - indicate that experimentation with testosterone for athletic purposes began in the U.S. sometime in either late 1954 or 1955. These 'trials' were short-lived, however, as the results were disappointing and testosterone use was deemed ineffective and carried the risk of harmful side-effects. A statistical analysis of Olympic-style Weightlifting performances published in the International Journal of the History of Sport concluded that Soviet athletes likely first used testosterone sometime between 1952 and 1956.
Ziegler learned from the Russians that they were using test on their weightlifters in 1954 ( still years after Reeves retired ) and he was the first one to attempt to use inject-able testosterone on weightlifters were ' deemed ineffective ' and carried ' harmful side-effects ' which is why he created Dianbol to have the same advantages and without the harmful side-effects
If you have any proof you would have posted it by now but as we established many times over you don't have anything and other than rumors , innuendo , lies and conspiracy theories , which is why the morons of this site like you , it's par for the course on GetBig
but you have an he say too,,its he say written in a book but it is stil he say because you never been with reeves or lived in his house,,follow me? ,,you cant know anything same as you say i cant because you never lived with him,,but the problem is that i thikn even if you lived with him he would have found a way to balonie you lol,,like today fellas do all the time,,all the time i hear friend of friend saying his friend is natural because he got good genetics,,he just sometimes 183 and sometimeew 198 btu due to good genetic remain 8% lol ,, its just when you walk the walk you know hormonized bodybuilder like yoru hand just like a fella that has printing houe will be able to smell paper and touch it for a secod and tell you all about it as in quality and the way it was printed and done,,
gh15 approved
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Only because he said so? not accurate lets also factor in that we know for a fact anabolics weren't created in the United States until years after he retired and there is NO record what so ever of any strength athlete in the United States using test before doctor John Ziegler , who abandoned the use of testosterone because it yielded no results what so ever , it's more than just his word you should try and pay attention to the thread but my speculation is you're not hear following just trolling which is nothing new for you.
Did you miss this because you never responded to it, despite requesting it and it directly contradicts what you are saying above:
here is some more info about the book I mentioned:
http://nsrc.sfsu.edu/article/testosterone_dreams
Testosterone became a charismatic drug during the 1940s because it promised sexual stimulation and renewed energy. Physicians described the optimal effect of testosterone drugs as a feeling of “well-being,” a term that has been used many times since the 1940s to characterize their positive effect on mood. In the early 1940s testosterone was hailed in pharmaceutical advertising as a mood-altering drug whose primary purpose was the sexual restoration and reenergizing of aging males. It appeared at that time that an inexpensive supply, widespread demand, and favorable medical opinion would soon produce a major market for testosterone products.
The first public advocate of testosterone therapy for aging men was the popular science journalist Paul de Kruif, whose manifesto The Male Hormone was published with some fanfare in 1945. Excerpted in Reader’s Digest and promoted by a full-page review in Newsweek (“Hormones for He-Men”), The Male Hormone was in some respects a prophetic book. The potential market for a rejuvenating male hormone seemed to be enormous: “How many millions of American males, not the men they used to be, would flock to the physicians and the druggist, a bit shame-faced and surreptitious, maybe, but hopeful, murmuring: ‘Doc, how about some of this new male hormone?’”
Testosterone did not become a mass market drug in the 1940s due to the sexual conservatism of most American physicians and the society they served. The belief that testosterone was a stimulating drug made it a potential threat to sexual morality as well as a promising therapy. Sensational coverage had given the male hormone a quasi-pornographic image that its female counterpart estrogen had never acquired. Commenting on testosterone’s unsavory reputation in 1946, Science Digest reported that “the uninformed continue to believe that the sole use of this innocent chemical is to turn sexual weaklings into wolves, and octogenarians into sexual athletes.”
The 1940s also saw the use of testosterone therapy as an experimental “cure” for homosexuality. The medical view of homosexuality as a type of endocrine deficiency made the use of testosterone propionate to reverse homosexual orientation virtually predictable. As one physician in 1940 put it: “If homosexuality is merely the result of an endocrine disturbance, the prospect for its cure must be excellent today.”
The idea that the bodies of homosexuals contained less male hormone and more female hormone than those of heterosexuals first appeared in 1935. By 1940 a number of investigators were confident enough in their ability to assay hormone levels to claim that homosexuality was rooted in abnormal sex hormone ratios rather than the psychological complexes hypothesized by Freud and others. “It seems,” one research team wrote, “that the constitutional homosexual has a different sex hormone chemistry than the normal male.” The fallacy of this therapeutic rationale became evident soon enough. Testosterone propionate combined with chorionic gonadotropin was not curing homosexuals, even in studies that encouraged belief in the drug and did not compare its effects with those of a placebo. In fact, it was becoming increasingly clear that androgens did not reverse but actually intensified homosexual libido, so that “sometimes instead of helping one gets a worsening of the condition.”
Prescription for women?
Testosterone drugs were also the favored pharmacological technique of the 1940s for treating sexual “frigidity” in women. Testosterone propionate ointment could be applied to the vulva or clitoris to increase genital sensitivity. Testosterone could be injected or pellets implanted under the skin to intensify libido. By 1943 testosterone propionate was reported to be in widespread use to treat women with sexual and other endocrine disorders
Incredible still ignoring this ND? I didn't think you would resort to such cheap tactics to win an argument. I guess Hulkster was right about you.
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215lbs at 6'1 and 9-10% would actually be less size than GH15 outlined for naturals lol.
The guy is a confused, jealous, bitter individual, who tends to contradict himself every other post.
There is nothing to suggest that Reeves was on anything. End of story.
there are guys who weigh 150lbs who use drugs. drug use is not only connected to the weight of the person.
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Did you miss this because you never responded to it, despite requesting it and it directly contradicts what you are saying above:
Incredible still ignoring this ND? I didn't think you would resort to such cheap tactics to win an argument. I guess Hulkster was right about you.
Ignoring what? this has what to do with strength athletes? this has what to do with weightlifting & bodybuilding? this is an attempt to draw a conclusion based on a reference to something non-related and I'm not even sure if that information is accurate
Show me proof that strength athletes were using it in the 1940s and then I'll say you're onto something but this proves zero.
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there are guys who weigh 150lbs who use drugs. drug use is not only connected to the weight of the person.
plenty of fellas use gear and 160 lb ,,PLENTY,,they just dotn eat,,they work out,,they party ,,they see it as beach body for girls,,they dont have enough caloric intake to grow,,they just dont eat period,,1-2 meals a day if ,usually junk,,those fellas stil use aas and the results with them since they dont eat much and work out and drink alcohol and party and girls and school and etc ,,result with them is 165lb of little harder muscle that has some kind o swole to it ,,or more defined thin/muscles,,the main idea behind their juice is more socially,, more scuplted muscles with some minor thickness and overall buff feeling,,you call it in bodybuilding swole,,its reaction of body to drugs before anything really happens persay as in the illusion/side effect before the drug take affect subsentially if training and eating enough,,
gh15 approved
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Ignoring what? this has what to do with strength athletes? this has what to do with weightlifting & bodybuilding? this is an attempt to draw a conclusion based on a reference to something non-related and I'm not even sure if that information is accurate
Show me proof that strength athletes were using it in the 1940s and then I'll say you're onto something but this proves zero.
The point is that BBers are willing to try anything, and the quote suggests that testosterone was readily available in the 40s. Therefore we should assume that they were experimenting with it. Don't you think that BBers today use a lot of PEDs that other strength athletes have never tried?
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I knew a "bench press specialist" who stood bout 5'9" and weighed not more than a buck 45 and the dude looked like he never touched a weight in his life, and this was a black dude as well. Anyways, his bp was around 325, with a full competition-style pause at the chest. I know that he was on something, coz my dealer friend told me that this fella was one of his clients. At the time I was at my peak, 5'11" a buck 55 and sub-5, and I was 10 times more buff than him even though I was completely natural. But, as far as strength went, I got smoked by dis fella lol
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The point is that BBers are willing to try anything, and the quote suggests that testosterone was readily available in the 40s. Therefore we should assume that they were experimenting with it. Don't you think that BBers today use a lot of PEDs that other strength athletes have never tried?
The point is you're using toady's perspective and attempting to apply it to yesterday. I don't thing it suggests it was readily available in the 40s although it appears it was being marketed towards the medical community for a host of reasons , including the cure for homosexuality
This is you drawing your own conclusions because of a non-related medical reference , and assuming it was available to any bodybuilder who wanted it and it somehow worked for them , recall Ziegler a Medical Doctor mind you had ZERO luck testosterone injections at first and abandoned them , the test subjects noted NO benefits other than one claiming he felt more horny and Grimmick who actually felt the injections hindered his progress
So you're talking huge leaps in assuming it was readily available to any Joe-blow on the street , and it worked effectively and doctors knew about the advantages in strength/muscle building , there is NO record of anyone using testosterone in weightlifters and bodybuilders before 1954 and Ziegler if there were I would be the first to admit so , people just assume on this subject because it fits their point of view , I don't.
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The point is you're using toady's perspective and attempting to apply it to yesterday. I don't thing it suggests it was readily available in the 40s although it appears it was being marketed towards the medical community for a host of reasons , including the cure for homosexuality
This is you drawing your own conclusions because of a non-related medical reference , and assuming it was available to any bodybuilder who wanted it and it somehow worked for them , recall Ziegler a Medical Doctor mind you had ZERO luck testosterone injections at first and abandoned them , the test subjects noted NO benefits other than one claiming he felt more horny and Grimmick who actually felt the injections hindered his progress
So you're talking huge leaps in assuming it was readily available to any Joe-blow on the street , and it worked effectively and doctors knew about the advantages in strength/muscle building , there is NO record of anyone using testosterone in weightlifters and bodybuilders before 1954 and Ziegler if there were I would be the first to admit so , people just assume on this subject because it fits their point of view , I don't.
I'm not drawing any conclusions, just offering evidence that Reeves could have been on roids. It is erroneous I think for you to think of him as any joe blow off the street. The guy was making money off of his looks, and already invested in doing everything he could to enhance them.
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I'm not drawing any conclusions, just offering evidence that Reeves could have been on roids. It is erroneous I think for you to think of him as any joe blow off the street. The guy was making money off of his looks, and already invested in doing everything he could to enhance them.
You absolutely drawing your own conclusions , if some doctors were using it as a cue for frigidity in women and a cure for homosexuality in men , therefore Reeves could have been using it it's reaching really that's not evidence in the least it's speculation
he was doing everything to enhance his looks? ??? looks are genetic and ever see his physique at 15? he was already ahead of the same or was there a possibility he was using back then? where does this train of thought end?
we have evidence of when test was first used in the United States for strength athletes anything that predates this isn't evidence it's wishful thinking and assumption.
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You absolutely drawing your own conclusions , if some doctors were using it as a cue for frigidity in women and a cure for homosexuality in men , therefore Reeves could have been using it it's reaching really that's not evidence in the least it's speculation
he was doing everything to enhance his looks? ??? looks are genetic and ever see his physique at 15? he was already ahead of the same or was there a possibility he was using back then? where does this train of thought end?
we have evidence of when test was first used in the United States for strength athletes anything that predates this isn't evidence it's wishful thinking and assumption.
so I'm willing to consider the possibility and you are not, and you say I'm the one jumping to conclusions?
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so I'm willing to consider the possibility and you are not, and you say I'm the one jumping to conclusions?
I like evidence , you don't
is it possible? perhaps is it probable? highly unlikely
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He could have been using. I wouldn't say 100% that he wasn't, it's really not something that means that much to me, whether or not a guy took low dose test 70 odd years ago.
It's just a bit out of line to throw around accusations when there is nothing to substantiate such claims.
I look at his physique and see someone with a good skeletal structure who was carrying decent mass. He wasn't ripped to shreds and he wasn't huge. Just someone with good genetics that had been training since he was about fourteen.
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He could have been using. I wouldn't say 100% that he wasn't, it's really not something that means that much to me, whether or not a guy took low dose test 70 odd years ago.
It's just a bit out of line to throw around accusations when there is nothing to substantiate such claims.
I look at his physique and see someone with a good skeletal structure who was carrying decent mass. He wasn't ripped to shreds and he wasn't huge. Just someone with good genetics that had been training since he was about fourteen.
He is talked about as one of the most aesthetic BBers of all time, despite not having access to modern training methods and supplementation (I mean not even decent protein powder), considering this unusual combination of great product and substandard input we have to consider that we might not be seeing the whole picture. Then you have the additional fact that testosterone was available and widely known, talked about even in Newsweek, and it seems to provide a clear explanation. The alternative is genetics that we don't even see in naturals today (at least according the the consensus view of Reeves, to me he is nothing special). Which explanation is more plausible.
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He is talked about as one of the most aesthetic BBers of all time, despite not having access to modern training methods and supplementation (I mean not even decent protein powder), considering this unusual combination of great product and substandard input we have to consider that we might not be seeing the whole picture. Then you have the additional fact that testosterone was available and widely known, talked about even in Newsweek, and it seems to provide a clear explanation. The alternative is genetics that we don't even see in naturals today (at least according the the consensus view of Reeves, to me he is nothing special). Which explanation is more plausible.
They knew about progressive resistance training in the late 1800's, over the counter supplamentation is of no real value whatsoever. Protein powder is about the only product of any use and it isn't a substitute for real food.
I think people referance Reeves because of his structure, the fact that he was in the movies and because he was a good looking guy. The fact that he is a known name and the main guy from the golden era is important, it wouldn't be good to referance guys that nobody else is really aware of. I have seen a lot of guys who i would put down as having better builds, but it's all subjective.
Genetics is the number one factor in building your physique. I think he had a very good response to training, as evidenced in his pictures when he was about 16 years old.
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Reeves took steroids.
He is also the single most overrated BBer of all time....he was a twink with defined pecs and a small waist....fuck him
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They knew about progressive resistance training in the late 1800's, over the counter supplamentation is of no real value whatsoever. Protein powder is about the only product of any use and it isn't a substitute for real food.
I think people referance Reeves because of his structure, the fact that he was in the movies and because he was a good looking guy. The fact that he is a known name and the main guy from the golden era is important, it wouldn't be good to referance guys that nobody else is really aware of. I have seen a lot of guys who i would put down as having better builds, but it's all subjective.
Genetics is the number one factor in building your physique. I think he had a very good response to training, as evidenced in his pictures when he was about 16 years old.
if genetic was number one factor than everyone would walk 150 6%,,its the GENETIC RESPONE TO HORMONES,,YOU at 6'1 with the best natural genetic in the fuckin world with amazing muscle shape that steevre reeves DID NOT HAVE BY THE WAY,,you maybe!! wil be 6'1 200lb at 6-8%,,im saying maybe because you will have to have no life other than bodybuilding and only food training sleep,,no disturbances what so ever inorder to see 200lb aT 6'1 AT 6-7%
so my dear friend,,genetic persay has nothing to do with it,,testosterona on the other hand,,.has a lot to do with it :)
im amazed at how goolible so many kids are and even old timers,,amazing how they think that good genetic structure will lead you to be 200lb at 6% at 5'11,,good genetic strcture gets you to be 5'10 180 9-10% ,,6'1 200lb 9-10% at the absolute best cases which are very very very rare maybe down to 6% at 180 and 200 respectivly to the heights mentioned
the diff between 6% and 9-12% isi huggggggggggggggge,,you need to lose about 30lb to get from 12% to 6% ,,30 fuckin lb!
the fella at 230-235 12-13 % walk on stage 190 4-5%,,think about it ,,and this is ALWAYS ON AAS DRUGS! unles there is gh in there then it changes with time
gh15 approved
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if genetic was number one factor than everyone would walk 150 6%,,its the GENETIC RESPONE TO HORMONES,,YOU at 6'1 with the best natural genetic in the fuckin world with amazing muscle shape that steevre reeves DID NOT HAVE BY THE WAY,,you maybe!! wil be 6'1 200lb at 6-8%,,im saying maybe because you will have to have no life other than bodybuilding and only food training sleep,,no disturbances what so ever inorder to see 200lb aT 6'1 AT 6-7%
so my dear friend,,genetic persay has nothing to do with it,,testosterona on the other hand,,.has a lot to do with it :)
im amazed at how goolible so many kids are and even old timers,,amazing how they think that good genetic structure will lead you to be 200lb at 6% at 5'11,,good genetic strcture gets you to be 5'10 180 9-10% ,,6'1 200lb 9-10% at the absolute best cases which are very very very rare maybe down to 6% at 180 and 200 respectivly to the heights mentioned
the diff between 6% and 9-12% isi huggggggggggggggge,,you need to lose about 30lb to get from 12% to 6% ,,30 fuckin lb!
the fella at 230-235 12-13 % walk on stage 190 4-5%,,think about it ,,and this is ALWAYS ON AAS DRUGS! unles there is gh in there then it changes with time
gh15 approved
yes I agree BF% changes alot at a specific weight; people need to understand that when comparing the weight X to weight Y.
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In my personal experience the "magic number" is 7, once I hit sub-7 the difference in my appearance is like night and day, and I'm speaking from a natural twink perspective ;D So, in my opinon, I'm thinking that a hormonized fella could be a bit higher, say 9-10% and still look outstanding. Coz how could a thickly-muscled specimen have to get down to sub-7 to look outstanding, when that is the actual requirement for a natural twink like me?
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if genetic was number one factor than everyone would walk 150 6%,,its the GENETIC RESPONE TO HORMONES,,YOU at 6'1 with the best natural genetic in the fuckin world with amazing muscle shape that steevre reeves DID NOT HAVE BY THE WAY,,you maybe!! wil be 6'1 200lb at 6-8%,,im saying maybe because you will have to have no life other than bodybuilding and only food training sleep,,no disturbances what so ever inorder to see 200lb aT 6'1 AT 6-7%
so my dear friend,,genetic persay has nothing to do with it,,testosterona on the other hand,,.has a lot to do with it :)
im amazed at how goolible so many kids are and even old timers,,amazing how they think that good genetic structure will lead you to be 200lb at 6% at 5'11,,good genetic strcture gets you to be 5'10 180 9-10% ,,6'1 200lb 9-10% at the absolute best cases which are very very very rare maybe down to 6% at 180 and 200 respectivly to the heights mentioned
the diff between 6% and 9-12% isi huggggggggggggggge,,you need to lose about 30lb to get from 12% to 6% ,,30 fuckin lb!
the fella at 230-235 12-13 % walk on stage 190 4-5%,,think about it ,,and this is ALWAYS ON AAS DRUGS! unles there is gh in there then it changes with time
gh15 approved
I generally agree with you, i just think your numbers are a little out.
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Hey Gh15 what do you think of the weight guidlines that Steve Reeves put in to his book in regards to natural training?
Height Ideal Weight
5’5” 160lbs
5’6” 165lbs
5’7” 170lbs
5’8” 175lbs
5’9” 180lbs
5’10” 185lbs
5’11” 190lbs
6’0” 200lbs
6’1” 210lbs
6’2” 220lbs
6’3” 230lbs
6’4” 240lbs
6’5” 250lbs
So most guys off the juice and sitting at a reasonable lean weight are going to be around this ballpark? They knew this shit fifty odd years ago...
well depends on bodyfat% like gh15 said. at 4% doubt it.