opinions on fat burners and testosterone boosters

[jcguy20]

Just wanted you guys opinion on some of the best test boosters and fat burners....im an athlete and right now im about to take progenex and maybe some other stuff but wondering yalls opinion on the top fat burners and test boosters....

I know pro hormones are SHIT and I really cant juice because we get tested at school im pretty sure we can get away with legal test supps though idk but anyways just wondering opinions

[andreisdaman]

save your money..they don't work..all advertising...the only fat-burner that worked was the old Hydroxycut formula...nothing else matches it since

[darksol]

save your money..they don't work..all advertising...the only fat-burner that worked was the old Hydroxycut formula...nothing else matches it since

Thats not true. The original Xenadrine RFA-1 was a good product too.  Although neither product has been manufactured since 2002. 

As for test boosters,  Novadex XT by Gaspari works.  The results are not immediate, but within a week I promise you will notice a difference, after 2 weeks you will notice a huge difference. Take 2-4 pills at night before bed.  Just to warn you these will cause your estrogen levels to drop, so if you need to be emotional for anything ( art, relationships, job ), you need to be aware that your art and design skills will suck,  Your girl will notice you not taking any lip off her, and your co workers may find you a bit irritable.  However you will get great gains and feel strong.  Its up to you to decide which is more important. I took these for 3 months and eventually stopped.  They work, but in my case the sides were too much.  I have a buddy that also takes them and doesn't experience any of the sides I do, so it could vary by person.

Buy as always there is no supplement that will ever compare to good diet and exercise.

My main problem was I wasn't getting enough protein. So now I eat 3 pints of cottage cheese a day with a little sugar and cinnamon added.  Quick easy and tasty protein ( 270 grams worth ). and low carb and fat.
Thus far I am making some decent gains.  Its only been a week, but still its motivating.

[jcguy20]

idk if i can do the cottage cheese thing i havnt ate that shit since i was little but i will try and see

[andreisdaman]

Thats not true. The original Xenadrine RFA-1 was a good product too.  Although neither product has been manufactured since 2002. 

As for test boosters,  Novadex XT by Gaspari works.  The results are not immediate, but within a week I promise you will notice a difference, after 2 weeks you will notice a huge difference. Take 2-4 pills at night before bed.  Just to warn you these will cause your estrogen levels to drop, so if you need to be emotional for anything ( art, relationships, job ), you need to be aware that your art and design skills will suck,  Your girl will notice you not taking any lip off her, and your co workers may find you a bit irritable.  However you will get great gains and feel strong.  Its up to you to decide which is more important. I took these for 3 months and eventually stopped.  They work, but in my case the sides were too much.  I have a buddy that also takes them and doesn't experience any of the sides I do, so it could vary by person.

Buy as always there is no supplement that will ever compare to good diet and exercise.

My main problem was I wasn't getting enough protein. So now I eat 3 pints of cottage cheese a day with a little sugar and cinnamon added.  Quick easy and tasty protein ( 270 grams worth ). and low carb and fat.
Thus far I am making some decent gains.  Its only been a week, but still its motivating.

WOW..you must be getting the shits big time!!!!!

[AVBG]

check out Dave Palumbo's Species line of supps.. some of the best and underrated supps on the market.

[tbombz]

 fat burners =
most are just different sources of caffiene and provide not much more than just caffiene effects.  id buy a bottle of 200mg caffiene tabs if you wanted a fat burner. and if you want more fat burning, you could add yohimbine hcl , ephedrine, EGCG.


 test boosters = the best test booster yo can possibly get, other than steroids and related products, is simple = a diet high in fat and cholestrol. whole eggs, red meat, nuts, cheese, sausage, bacon, chicken thighs, ham, etc.

[darksol]

WOW..you must be getting the shits big time!!!!!

Actually I am not.  I used to crap at least once a day when I used to eat trash and real food.  Ever since I have been on this cottage cheese diet, I crap maybe once every 2 days at the most.  It has only been a little over a week though, so its still too soon to tell if this diet works. 

[thewickedtruth]

test boosters otc suck.. hard training and a healthy diet will give you plenty of test response. As far as fat burners go...thermocin and nitor from atlarge nutrition are both solid supplements.

[Necrosis]

lots of good quality fat burners on the market that have novel effects. Increased beta oxidation, ppar alpha,gamma agonism, increased BMR, anorectic.

Amp v2 from ergopharm is sweet.

fenotest is good, sustain alpha, formestane is really nice.

[rccs]

fat burners =
most are just different sources of caffiene and provide not much more than just caffiene effects.  id buy a bottle of 200mg caffiene tabs if you wanted a fat burner. and if you want more fat burning, you could add yohimbine hcl , ephedrine, EGCG.


 test boosters = the best test booster yo can possibly get, other than steroids and related products, is simple = a diet high in fat and cholestrol. whole eggs, red meat, nuts, cheese, sausage, bacon, chicken thighs, ham, etc.

x2

[suckmymuscle]

Just wanted you guys opinion on some of the best test boosters and fat burners....im an athlete and right now im about to take progenex and maybe some other stuff but wondering yalls opinion on the top fat burners and test boosters....

I know pro hormones are SHIT and I really cant juice because we get tested at school im pretty sure we can get away with legal test supps though idk but anyways just wondering opinions

  Test boosters = nolvadex + finasteride

  If you want a test boosting combo that works and don't want to take steroids, then taking an anti-estrogenic with an alpha-reductase inhibitor like finasteride is the best way to go. It will boost free testosterone level, although it must be said that this boost will come at the cost of less dihidrotestosterone, which is very important for virility. Zinc picolinate is also very effective at blocking test conversion to DHT.

  Fat burner = beta-agonist + adenosine inhibitor

  ephedrine + caffeine

  I have found that theophiline from maté and amphepramone, a sympathomimetic amine with good noradrenergic properties and weak dopamine agonism, works even better than caffeine plus ephedrine. Another good option is phentermine in sustained-released mode. Mixing it with caffeine is not recommended due to the strong adrenergic potency of phentermine which can lead to dangerous rises in systolic blood pressure. Do not go the amphetamine route, though. These sympathomimetic amines cause steep rises in cortisol and other corticosteroids and thus will cause fat burning but also will make you lose lots of muscle mass. Only use amphetamines if you also take some corticosteroid inhibitor, like aminogluthethimide, to offset the loss of muscle mass these compounds induce.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Necrosis]

  Test boosters = nolvadex + finasteride

  If you want a test boosting combo that works and don't want to take steroids, then taking an anti-estrogenic with an alpha-reductase inhibitor like finasteride is the best way to go. It will boost free testosterone level, although it must be said that this boost will come at the cost of less dihidrotestosterone, which is very important for virility. Zinc picolionate is also very effective at blocking test conversion to DHT.

  Fat burner = beta-agonist + adenosine inhibitor

  ephedrine + caffeine

  I have found that theophiline from maté and amphepramone, a sympathomimetic amine with good noradrenergic properties and weak dopamine agonism, works even better than caffeine plus ephedrine. Another good option is pehentermine in sustained-released mode. Mixing it with caffeine is not recommended due to the strong adrenergic potency of phentermine which can lead to dangerous rises in systolic blood pressure. Do not go the amphetamine route, though. These sympathomimetic amines cause steep rises in cortisol and other corticosteroids and thus will cause fat burning but also will make you lose lots of muscle mass. Only use amphetamines if you also take some corticosteroid inhibitor, like aminogluthethimide, to offset the loss of muscle mass these compounds induce.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

you are aware that phentermine is an amphetamine right? it suffers the same drawbacks. Theophylline is better then caffeine but has to be monitored due to toxicity and dose dumping can occur if taken with a high fat meal. I agree with the yerbe mate references.

the testosterone reduing effects of amphetamines would take a whileto manifest and increased cortisol is associated with most if not all stimulants.

I think ephedrine and caffeine are the best combo as well, i like sesamin also, fish oil, green tea, fucoxanthin, forskolin, yohimbe among other stuff. nicotine is good as well like you stated in a previous post.

[darksol]

you are aware that phentermine is an amphetamine right? it suffers the same drawbacks.

Then that explains why it makes me feel so dam good! 

[suckmymuscle]

you are aware that phentermine is an amphetamine right?

  Phentermine shares the same phenylethylamine structure of the classic amphetamies, but this sympathomimetic amine is usually not classsed as an amphetamine because it has a dfferent modus operandi and muh weaker dopaminergic agonism than the classic amphetamines. The classic amphetamines, like d,l-amphetamine, d-amphetamine and methamphetamine act primarilly on the mesolimbic dopamine area of the brain and prefrontal cortex, whilst phentermine acts primarilly on the hypothalamus and the major catecholamine it acts upon is norepinephrine, causing almost no release of dopamine from the pre-synapic cleft. Because of this, phentermine is a shedule IV drug to the DEA, meaning that it has little potential for abuse, whilst the classic amphetamines are classed as shedule II, meaning drugs that have a very high potential for abuse and dependence. In fact, methylphenidate, which does not have the phenylethylamine structure of the amphetamines, is far more similar to the classic amphetamines in it's pharmocologcal action than phentermine, which does have the same structure.

it suffers the same drawbacks.

  Not really. For starters, phentermine won't make you a paranoid schizofrenic, unlike amphtamines. Secondly, it's effect on coticosteroid levels are far more mild than what snorting meth will give you, meaning less loss of muscle. Never heard of anyone losing their hair on phentermine, which is what happens to meth addicts. Then, there's the issue that phentermine is more effective at stimulating beta-adrenergic receptors than the classic amphetamines.

[Necrosis]

  Phentermine shares the same phenylethylamine structure of the classic amphetamies, but this sympathomimetic amine is usually not classsed as an amphetamine because it has a dfferent modus operandi and muh weaker dopaminergic agonism than the classic amphetamines. The classic amphetamines, like d,l-amphetamine, d-amphetamine and methamphetamine act primarilly on the mesolimbic dopamine area of the brain and prefrontal cortex, whilst phentermine acts primarilly on the hypothalamus and the major catecholamine it acts upon is norepinephrine, causing almost no release of dopamine from the pre-synapic cleft. Because of this, phentermine is a shedule IV drug to the DEA, meaning that it has little potential for abuse, whilst the classic amphetamines are classed as shedule II, meaning drugs that have a very high potential for abuse and dependence. In fact, methylphenidate, which does not have the phenylethylamine structure of the amphetamines, is far more similar to the classic amphetamines in it's pharmocologcal action than phentermine, which does have the same structure.


  Not really. For starters, phentermine won't make you a paranoid schizofrenic, unlike amphtamines. Secondly, it's effect on coticosteroid levels are far more mild than what snorting meth will give you, meaning less loss of muscle. Never heard of anyone losing their hair on phentermine, which is what happens to meth addicts. Then, there's the issue that phentermine is more effective at stimulating beta-adrenergic receptors than the classic amphetamines.

the chances of making one paranoid schizophrenic are very low, hair loss is low, and you are comparing meth addicts, not people using threapeutic doses for add.

they are all phenyethylamines, have you taken phen phen before?

[andreisdaman]

fat burners =
most are just different sources of caffiene and provide not much more than just caffiene effects.  id buy a bottle of 200mg caffiene tabs if you wanted a fat burner. and if you want more fat burning, you could add yohimbine hcl , ephedrine, EGCG.


 test boosters = the best test booster yo can possibly get, other than steroids and related products, is simple = a diet high in fat and cholestrol. whole eggs, red meat, nuts, cheese, sausage, bacon, chicken thighs, ham, etc.

agreed...I second this statement..test boosters are nonsense and worthless...just eat!!!!!

[suckmymuscle]

the chances of making one paranoid schizophrenic are very low

  Meth shows a 14% rate of chronic psychosis with evidence of permanent organic brain damage even among those who use it orally, although this only holds true for chronic use. I hardly think 14% is low. As for hair loss, my nephew took ritalin and his hair started falling at age 12. Idiossyncratic response? Maybe, but losing hair at 12 is not normal especially cosidering that his father and both grandfathers never went bald - and even if you have a bald father and bald grandfathers, losing hair a 12 is still not normal.

, hair loss is low, and you are comparing meth addicts, not people using threapeutic doses for add.

  With dexamphetamine it's low when taken orally, yes, but meth is harsher on the scalpel although it's milder on the CNS - I mean in terms of side effects, not in pharmacodynamics at which meth is twice more active on the CNS than amphetamine.

they are all phenyethylamines,

  Like I said, phentermine shares the phenylethylamine structure, but it's not pharmacologically classed as an amphetamine. An amphetaminic, yes, but not an amphetamine. The same is true for all psychostimulants that are not shedule II according to the DEA and do not have the phenylethylamine structure. The only compounds that satisfy both requirements are amphetamine, methamphetamine and perhaps phenmetrazine. Methylphenidate is a shedule II psychostimulant but it is not an amphetamine because it does not have the structure common to other amphetaminics, being a piperidine derivative.

have you taken phen phen before?

  No, I've taken amphepramone(di-ethyl-propion), dexamphetamine and methylphenidate, and methylphenidate feels a lot more like dexamphetamine than amphepramone, even though amphepramone shares the phenylethylamine sructure of dexamphetamine whilst mehylhenidate doesen't. In terms of pharmacodynamics, metyhlphenidate is much closer to amphetamine than phentermine. Amphetamine and methylphenidate get you high; phentermine doesen't, which is why amphetamine and methylphenidate are both shedule II, whilst phentermine is shedule IV. Now, if you're talking about phenmetrazine, now that's a different story. Never took it, but a guy I know who was addicted to meth told me that directly mainliing it gets you as hgh as snorting meth. Anways, I don't take stimulants anymore due to the neurotoxic effect. While the direct neurotoxic effect of drugs like phentermine, methylphenidate and amphepramone is very low, they have some side neurotoxcity due to it's powerful vasoconstrictive effect: decreasing oxygen and blood supply to the brain is never good. As for meth, it is arguably the most neurotoxic drug known, even in low doses when taken orally. It's direcly toxic to the neurons of the substantia nigra area of the brain, due to excessive dopamine agonism.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Necrosis]

  Meth shows a 14% rate of chronic psychosis with evidence of permanent organic brain damage even among those who use it orally, although this only holds true for chronic use. I hardly think 14% is low. As for hair loss, my nephew took ritalin and his hair started falling at age 12. Idiossyncratic response? Maybe, but losing hair at 12 is not normal especially cosidering that his father and both grandfathers never went bald - and even if you have a bald father and bald grandfathers, losing hair a 12 is still not normal.

  With dexamphetamine it's low when taken orally, yes, but meth is harsher on the scalpel although it's milder on the CNS - I mean in terms of side effects, not in pharmacodynamics at which meth is twice more active on the CNS than amphetamine.

  Like I said, phentermine shares the phenylethylamine structure, but it's not pharmacologically classed as an amphetamine. An amphetaminic, yes, but not an amphetamine. The same is true for all psychostimulants that are not shedule II according to the DEA and do not have the phenylethylamine structure. The only compounds that satisfy both requirements are amphetamine, methamphetamine and perhaps phenmetrazine. Methylphenidate is a shedule II psychostimulant but it is not an amphetamine because it does not have the structure common to other amphetaminics, being a piperidine derivative.

  No, I've taken amphepramone(di-ethyl-propion), dexamphetamine and methylphenidate, and methylphenidate feels a lot more like dexamphetamine than amphepramone, even though amphepramone shares the phenylethylamine sructure of dexamphetamine whilst mehylhenidate doesen't. In terms of pharmacodynamics, metyhlphenidate is much closer to amphetamine than phentermine. Amphetamine and methylphenidate get you high; phentermine doesen't, which is why amphetamine and methylphenidate are both shedule II, whilst phentermine is shedule IV. Now, if you're talking about phenmetrazine, now that's a different story. Never took it, but a guy I know who was addicted to meth told me that directly mainliing it gets you as hgh as snorting meth. Anways, I don't take stimulants anymore due to the neurotoxic effect. While the direct neurotoxic effect of drugs like phentermine, methylphenidate and amphepramone is very low, they have some side neurotoxcity due to it's powerful vasoconstrictive effect: decreasing oxygen and blood supply to the brain is never good. As for meth, it is arguably the most neurotoxic drug known, even in low doses when taken orally. It's direcly toxic to the neurons of the substantia nigra area of the brain, due to excessive dopamine agonism.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

meth is the most neurotoxic salt but is probably the best therapeutically, desoxyn is more euphoric also. Ritalin is similar to cocaine with its effects on the NAT transporters im not sure why you are mentioning methylphenidate if for comparison purposes then i digress.

I agree with the rest of the post, its factual and basic pharmacology. We are sidetracking the thread so i will end the responses here.

phenyethylamine is avalible as a supplement, with its short half life and rapid destruction by MAO it is almost useless. However, i have found with some coffee, for the beta carbolines, at doses of 1.5 grams it is quite euphoric, even more so with selegiline, but that is a different story.

[Luolamies]

If you are tested then there is really not much you can use. Of course this depends on what organisation is testing you, but if you are under IOC rules then allmost every product mentioned here is out of the question. So, before you take anything make sure what you can actually take...

[suckmymuscle]

meth is the most neurotoxic salt but is probably the best therapeutically,

  Meth is not a salt of amphetamine. It is a completely different compound from amphetamine. It is amphetamine with a methyl group attached to the molecule. A salt is what you get when you combine a base with an acid. For instance, if you combine amphetamine free base with tartaric acid, you get amphetamine tartrate. If you combine it with sulphuric acid, you get the sulphate salt.

  And like I said, meth is twice more active on the CNS than amphetamine, because the methyl group makes it permeate the brain quicker. I don't know why you brought that up since you are agreeing with me. My point is that it is far more neurotoxic than amphetamine, especially over dopaminergic axions.
 

desoxyn is more euphoric also.

  Desoxyn is the trade name of meth. Yes, it is more euphoric because it is more dopaminergc, but how is this relevant to therapeutic value

Ritalin is similar to cocaine with its effects on the NAT transporters im not sure why you are mentioning methylphenidate if for comparison purposes then i digress.

  I mentioned methylphenidate to elucidate that chemical structure and pharmacodynamics are two very different things. Methylphenidate is much closer to amphetamine in terms of pharmacodynamics than phentermine, although phentermine is much closer to amphetamine in terms of chemical structure than metylphenidate, since it shares with amphetamine the phenylethylamine structure, unlike methylphenidate, which has a piperidine structure.

I agree with the rest of the post, its factual and basic pharmacology. We are sidetracking the thread so i will end the responses here.

  Then why did you start arguing about it in the first place?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Necrosis]

  Meth is not a salt of amphetamine. It is a completely different compound from amphetamine. It is amphetamine with a methyl group attached to the molecule. A salt is what you get when you combine a base with an acid. For instance, if you combine amphetamine free base with tartaric acid, you get amphetamine tartrate. If you combine it with sulphuric acid, you get the sulphate salt.

  And like I said, meth is twice more active on the CNS than amphetamine, because the methyl group makes it permeate the brain quicker. I don't know why you brought that up since you are agreeing with me. My point is that it is far more neurotoxic than amphetamine, especially over dopaminergic axions.
 
  Desoxyn is the trade name of meth. Yes, it is more euphoric because it is more dopaminergc, but how is this relevant to therapeutic value

  I mentioned methylphenidate to elucidate that chemical structure and pharmacodynamics are two very different things. Methylphenidate is much closer to amphetamine in terms of pharmacodynamics than phentermine, although phentermine is much closer to amphetamine in terms of chemical structure than metylphenidate, since it shares with amphetamine the phenylethylamine structure, unlike methylphenidate, which has a piperidine structure.
 

  Then why did you start arguing about it in the first place?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

 methamphetamine>dextroamphetamine=salt in a onion reduction.

why am i arguing, simply because i like to argue with you

ronnie is better then dorian

[suckmymuscle]

methamphetamine>dextroamphetamine

  Yes, and as far as neurotoxicity it's also meth >>> amphetamine

salt in a onion reduction.

  I didn't understand the meaning of this sentence, but meth is not a salt of amphetamine. Amphetamine is a precursor to meth, and can be easily turned into meth via methylation, but one is not a salt of the other. If you reductively aminate phenylpropanone you get amphetamine; if you reductively alkylate phenylpropanone in the presence of methylamine, you get meth. Methylation is not a saltification process; it does not yeld a salt, but rather a different molecule. Both amphetamine and methyl-amphetamine(methamphetamine) can be be combined as the free base with several different acids to yield several different salts, but there is no acid that you can combine with amphetamine base to yield methamphetamine because they are two different molecules.

  Amphetamine base C9H13N Amphetamine hydrochloride C9H13N.HCL

  Meth base C10H15N Methamphetamine hydrochloride C10H15N.HCL

  Salt = same molecule as base except neutralized by acid.

  Methylation = process that turn a molecule into another molecule

  Amphetamine and meth = different molecules. One is not the salt of the other.

why am i arguing, simply because i like to argue with you

  You know, you struck me eerily like usmokepole, and now I see why.

ronnie is better then dorian

  Wrong. I am going to write in a while a 70 paragraph post on the truce thread elucidating why Dorian is better than Ronnie. Don't give your final veredictum before you read my explanation.

SUCKMYMUSCLE