Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => History - Stories - and Memories => Topic started by: Sergio Rules 77 on March 02, 2007, 08:56:08 PM
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Here are screenshots of the footage of Sergio posing in a London park, the day after his loss at the 1972 Olympia. You get a much better idea here of the condition Sergio was in as the Olympia footage is quite grainy and unclear. Enjoy!!!, I don't think these pics will be surpassed by any other bodybuilder.
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Just friggin amazing. Thanks again.
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Thanks Sergio ;D Rules
Amazing pics :D
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Fantastic! ;D
Here is part of the vid on the net:
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Very cool!
This looks to be Wag Bennett giving Sergio a hand...
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=132061.0;attach=147026;image)
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Amazing, And what's even more incredible is that with the bright sky behind him washing out the tops of his muscles, he's actually even more impressive than might seem at first glance.
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I don't think these pics will be surpassed by any other bodybuilder.
I agree!
However if any body has a chance to equal or surpass it's this kid...
Sergio Oliva Jr.!
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That's why he's is called the MYTH. Unreal. He was just amazing. And his kid looks great too.
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Almost the spitting image of his father at a young age.
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I agree!
However if any body has a chance to equal or surpass it's this kid...
Sergio Oliva Jr.!
Damn looks like he got daddy's genetics! Lucky guy!
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Best BBer to ever step on stage no question about it
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His arms are so damn big they look photoshopped!
One of my favorite bodybuilders of all time.
8)
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I agree!
However if any body has a chance to equal or surpass it's this kid...
Sergio Oliva Jr.!
Mike Katz looking swole.
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Great pics, thanks for sharing them. I dont think anyone ever has had arms that full. It's like they couldnt even fit any more muscle in the space.
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truly a rugged physique. I am always floored by seeing how impressive his arms where.
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awesome physique especially for his time. but- dexter jackson and capriese murray( whatever happened to that guy) is/are pretty much the modern versions of oliva.
Not even close. I gotta give credit to Dex and Capriese for just comming in crazy ripped but they have nothing on Sergio.
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Simply incredible. Amazing. The roundness and lengh of Sergio's muscle bellies are simply super-human. If there is one person who deserves to be regarded as "genetically superior" as far as bodybuilding goes, it is Sergio.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Musclebellies insert and never end.
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Whats amazing is - Nobody rips on this guy. I cant ever remember a critical word. Someone rips everyother BBer on the planet. He was the greatest IMO.
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Very true.
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Whats amazing is - Nobody rips on this guy. I cant ever remember a critical word. Someone rips everyother BBer on the planet. He was the greatest IMO.
Sure they do, just not on this forum. Especially when compared to the other great BB of the time Schwarzenegger those who prefer Arnold will mention that Sergio often didn't diet down and thus lacked Arnold's degree of detail & muscle quality for example. Arms weren't as refined, didn't have the same peaks, show muscles weren't as dramatic, couldn't pose that well, used too much oil in '72, etc. A few things can be mentioned; unfortunately the most widely circulated pics of Sergio are after/before his peak. Not a lot of widely available shots of him at his best.
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Sergio? Extremely full muscle bellies w/ long tie-ins, tiny waist, outstanding symmetry...
At his best, Arnie needed a lot more leg to balance his upper body.
The judging criteria were F'd in the day. It shackled us with a couple dainty, bony little Mr Olympia's at the expense of some guys w/ real muscle.
It's called Body Building not shaping or underwear modeling.
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Sergio? Extremely full muscle bellies w/ long tie-ins, tiny waist, outstanding symmetry...
At his best, Arnie needed a lot more leg to balance his upper body.
The judging criteria were F'd in the day. It shackled us with a couple dainty, bony little Mr Olympia's at the expense of some guys w/ real muscle.
It's called Body Building not shaping or underwear modeling.
That's your opinon. The objective answer as someone who's been following it since back when they competed and is more aware than most here about contest politics, is that it's just a flip of a coin, personal preference.
Equal greatness; in '73 and '74 Arnold was inspired to get in his best shape because he expected Oliva to be there following the Mr. International thing. The fact is Oliva was *never* in Arnold's '73 condition. Oliva was equally great due to other advantages he had. They both had strengths the other didn't, which is what will always make the comparison between them interesting.
Besides which you're wrong that no one criticizes Oliva's physique; i gave you some examples. About the only BBs who are beyond criticism are Reeves and Padilla; Padilla's only fault was lack of height.
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I'm sorry, but Reeves never had enough beef to be called a BBer by modern standards IMO. Haynes.
You clearly prefer a wasp like waist in preference to Herculean muscle. To each his own.
I think Sergio had the greatest potential of all time.
Your criticism of him is rare.
I'm with ya on Danny.
Times and judging criteria change. When's the last time you saw a vacuum shot pose?
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I'm sorry, but Reeves never had enough beef to be called a BBer by modern standards IMO. Haynes.
You clearly prefer a wasp like waist in preference to Herculean muscle. To each his own.
I think Sergio had the greatest potential of all time.
Your criticism of him is rare.
I'm with ya on Danny.
Times and judging criteria change. When's the last time you saw a vacuum shot pose?
You're completely ruled by your personal preferences over objectivity. I see things clearly, you have a personal bias that clouds your assessment as proven by the fact you're clueless that some aren't as in love with hmi as you-notice the other post here saying exactly that? Hello Mars?
Im not a fan of him what so ever, there is nothing dramatic about his look its plain. Hes just like Mustafa Mohammed everything on him looks good to very good individually but overall hes boring.
Many think he's great, smaller numbers aren't impressed. Same applies to almost any great BB. Get over to other BB boards or the main board here when there's an Arnold or Sergio thread and you'll see a more balanced assessment than you have right now. You'll probably be in shock for a while when you realize how out of it you've been. :o ;) ;)
As far as Reeves i was making a point about the fact that most BBs can be criticised for something or other. Really irrelevant what era he was in to make my point.
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You're completely ruled by your personal preferences over objectivity. ...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My feelings exactly about your self, but it's not raising my BP any.
I seen the other threads, everyone has a different opinion of what BBing perfection is. Your no more right that anyone else HERE. At a SHOW, the Judges decide. And what's hot or not changes like fashion over time. Your and my opinions may or may not.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My feelings exactly about your self, but it's not raising my BP any.
I seen the other threads, everyone has a different opinion of what BBing perfection is. Your no more right that anyone else HERE. At a SHOW, the Judges decide. And what's hot or not changes like fashion over time. Your and my opinions may or may not.
Because of your ego, you think you have the definitive answer LOL Notice i don't say whether Arnold or Oliva was better the way you do, because the truth is they were equally great. The rest is personal opinion, not you knowing better genius.
Do yourself a favor, use this wakeup call to get a grip. At this point you only see through your own bias. You can thank me later when you finally get it. ;D
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Because of your ego, you think you have the definitive answer LOL Notice i don't say whether Arnold or Oliva was better the way you do, because the truth is they were equally great. The rest is personal opinion, not you knowing better genius.
Do yourself a favor, use this wakeup call to get a grip. At this point you only see through your own bias. You can thank me later when you finally get it. ;D
Wow! Seek help ::) Totally bent over nada. Are you recently divorced?
You keep talking "Bias" opinion etc. but everyone that differs w/ YOUR opinion is WRONG.
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Let's review your obliviousness, mired in ego:
-Completely clueless that anyone criticizes your hero, even though someone just posted something about how unimpressed he is about Oliva, that of course you completely ignored. LOL It's time for you to be scared in terms of your naivete, which clearly has continued your entire life, until now. Eventually you'll thank me for the wake up call, IF you're smart (not sure on that one).
-Your BB claims are highly opionated and should be framed as such, but because of the HUGE EGO you talk as though what you think is fact when it's not. Totally out to lunch without realizing it.
YOU'VE BEEN SCHOOLED. SCHOOL'S OUT, KID. ;)
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Let's review your obliviousness, mired in ego:
-Completely clueless that anyone criticizes your hero, even though someone just posted something about how unimpressed he is about Oliva, that of course you completely ignored. LOL It's time for you to be scared in terms of your naivete, which clearly has continued your entire life, until now. Eventually you'll thank me for the wake up call, IF you're smart (not sure on that one).
-Your BB claims are highly opionated and should be framed as such, but because of the HUGE EGO you talk as though what you think is fact when it's not. Totally out to lunch without realizing it.
YOU'VE BEEN SCHOOLED. SCHOOL'S OUT, KID. ;)
Bud you got major hostility and Ego issues, if your on a load of androgen - I'd back it down before your in trouble w/ the law. This much temper and blind ego on a keyboard? Major problem to everyone around you is a good bet.
Hope everything works out for you,Good luck you gonna need it. FO KID :-*
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Bud you got major hostility and Ego issues, if your on a load of androgen - I'd back it down before your in trouble w/ the law. This much temper and blind ego on a keyboard? Major problem to everyone around you is a good bet.
Hope everything works out for you,Good luck you gonna need it. FO KID :-*
According to someone with demonstratedly warped perceptions.
Is it your ADD that prevents you from sticking to BB here?
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Pumpy, if you were a hypothetical judge at a contest where Arnold stepped onstage in his 1974 form, and Oliva in his 1972 one, how would you rule? I am curious about your opinion. We seldom agree about modern bodybuilders, but we both think highly of the Ironagers.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Pumpy, if you were a hypothetical judge at a contest where Arnold stepped onstage in his 1974 form, and Oliva in his 1972 one, how would you rule? I am curious about your opinion. We seldom agree about modern bodybuilders, but we both think highly of the Ironagers.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I've already said that it was too close to call; if they competed in this condition 6 times each would win 3 in fair contests, which these weren't. Weider had clear magazine and ad sales agendas attached to having a more charismatic BB on the covers and in articles. A shame though that Sergio wasn't at least shown for a minute during the movie Pumping Iron, but unfortunately the movie unlike the book version was very Weider-oriented and showing Oliva might've ruined the story line given that it would have had to be explained why he wasn't also competing in the Olympia which was also about politics that wouldn't have been any more appealing to show on screen than steroids that were also left out.
I like Arnold's '73 condition better-slightly smaller than '74 but leaner, and probably highly motivated by the threat of Oliva's presence and on-stage challenge to Weider/Schwarzenegger/Columbu sitting in the audience at the Mr. International shortly before the Olympia in '73. Based on that and lessons learned in '72 such as ensuring optimal condition AND a tan that was previously lacking, it's a photo finish.
Here are the best shots ever of each IMO, from after the show in '72 when Sergio peaked a day later and wasn't overly covered in oil, and Arnold in '73. I saw all of these shots at the time they first came out in Muscle.
Oliva was rarely close to this condition in his career, and any training shots taken by Weider's better photographers in the late 60s aren't around. Which means that most pics circulated aren't good representations. Schwarzenegger sustained a higher level of conditioning for longer while also benefitting from a legacy of good photographs from Weider's photographers documenting his workouts for years in the early-mid 70s.
Whatever choice i make would just be personal preference. Notice the striking different in Schwarzenegger's tan from '72 to '73. Sergio with a higher degree of detail than normally seen.
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I've already said that it was too close to call; if they competed in this condition 6 times each would win 3 in fair contests, which these weren't. Weider had clear magazine and ad sales agendas attached to having a more charismatic BB on the covers and in articles. A shame though that Sergio wasn't at least shown for a minute during the movie Pumping Iron, but unfortunately the movie unlike the book version was very Weider-oriented and showing Oliva might've ruined the story line given that it would have had to be explained why he wasn't also competing in the Olympia which was also about politics that wouldn't have been any more appealing to show on screen than steroids that were also left out.
I like Arnold's '73 condition better-slightly less puffed up than '74 but even higher quality and condition due to the threat of Oliva's presence and challenge from the stage to Weider/Schwarzenegger/Columbu sitting in the audience at the Mr. International shortly before the Olympia in '73. Based on that and lessons learned in '72 such as ensuring optimal condition AND a tan that was lacking, it's a photo finish.
Here are the best shots ever of each IMO, from after the show in '72 when Sergio peaked a day later and wasn't overly covered in oil, and Arnold in '73. I saw all of these shots at the time they first came out in Muscle.
Oliva was rarely close to this condition in his career, which means that most pics circulated aren't good representations. Schwarzenegger sustained a higher level of excellent for longer and also benefitted from a better legacy of good photographs from photographers with Weider documenting his workouts for years in the early-mid 70s.
Whatever choice i make would just be personal preference. Notice the striking different in Schwarzenegger's tan from '72 to '73.
Thanks, Pumpy. And yes, I am asking about your personal preference. As I see it, both Arnold and Oliva were two very, very rare genetic specimens. Arnold had the misfortune of having the one bodybuilder in history who could defeat him alive and competing in bodybuilding at the same time that he was. Even though Arnold competed at 237 lbs and Oliva even lower than that, they look as big or bigger than modern bodybuilders due to their absurdly long and round muscle bellies. These two bodybuilders are regarded as the most perfect combination of size and shape even to this day. Some bodybuilders are bigger, while others are more aesthetic, but no bodybuilder is as big and shapely simultaneously as these two. What do you think? I would love to see these two going head to head today, with the size of today's bodybuilders, but I suspect that they would lose their overral aeshtetic with that mass. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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I don't think they would look as good with today's drugs and guts, no.
My own preference i think would be Schwarzenegger, just because of that kind of leaness, slightly better aesthetics and height coupled with similar size to Oliva excepting thighs, & more dramatic musculature. The shortcoming in thighs was addressed pretty well due to great cuts & shape, great calves and posing them at perfect angles that made them look as good as they could. But Oliva should've won some of the time in the early 70s in fair contests, and should've been in Pumping Iron to properly represent BB then. Politics; too bad Butler didn't at least try to include some stock good clips of Oliva in the movie, such as the one with Zane from '72.
Coleman if he wanted to be better when he got bigger shouldn't have been doing any heavy squats, only hard work on refining movements for thighs and lots of running, to bring them down in size and much more work on calves. He didn't do everything he could to be great because of this IMO.
In fact because Coleman's weakness is dryness and hardness, he really should've stayed smaller and leaner as in the late 90s to minimize that. The probable reason he didn't was likely an enjoyment of eating and the harshness of dieting down-something along the lines of why Oliva was rarely cut.
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Pumpy, we will continue this conversation later. I need to go now. It's nice to see that at least we have common ground on Oliva and Arnold. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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I don't think they would look as good with today's drugs and guts, no.
My own preference i think would be Schwarzenegger, just because of that kind of leaness, slightly better aesthetics and height coupled with similar size to Oliva excepting thighs, & more dramatic musculature. The shortcoming in thighs was addressed pretty well due to great cuts & shape, great calves and posing them at perfect angles that made them look as good as they could. But Oliva should've won some of the time in the early 70s in fair contests, and should've been in Pumping Iron to properly represent BB then. Politics; too bad Butler didn't at least try to include some stock good clips of Oliva in the movie, such as the one with Zane from '72.
Coleman if he wanted to be better when he got bigger shouldn't have been doing any heavy squats, only hard work on refining movements for thighs and lots of running, to bring them down in size and much more work on calves. He didn't do everything he could to be great because of this IMO.
In fact because Coleman's weakness is dryness and hardness, he really should've stayed smaller and leaner as in the late 90s to minimize that. The probable reason he didn't was likely an enjoyment of eating and the harshness of dieting down-something along the lines of why Oliva was rarely cut.
I was never very impressed with Coleman's physique, perhaps because he has neither the dramatic muscle bellies of Arnold and Sergio or the super-hard look of Ray/Dorian/Gaspari/Labrada/Aykutlu that I admire so much. Nevertheless, I think that he looked spectacular at the 1998 Olympia. You might have gotten the wrong impression about me from the truce thread. The reason why I believe Dorian would win boils down to greater muscularity and hardness, even though I admit that Ronnie was far more aesthetically pleasant at that weight than Dorian. Regardless, even though we disagree about Dorian vs Ronnie, I think that we can both agree that he looked grotesque in his 2003/4 Olympia forms. Yes, Pumpy, his quads were ridiculously massive, but they came at the expense of huge glutes, which a male is not supposed to have. Furthermore, he lost a lot of the definition and striations that he had at 250 lbs - and the gut spirraled out of control. As you can see from the truce thread, I regard Coleman's 1998 Olympia physique as one of the best ever. Also, I find your criticisms of Dorian's physique to be excessively harsh and unfair. Even if you hate his physique, give him props for his determination and for the fact that he made the best with what he had. :) Just out of curiosity, Pumpy, and even though I know you hate his physique, what year do you think Dorian looked his best?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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-Coleman's never been one of my faves, because of the lack of hardness/some water, and the gyno. Generally looks too loose. In the late 90s where he was so shredded it almost compensated for most but not all of the above negatives, but shredded and dense aren't the same although equally impressive. If he had stayed as he was in the late 90s he'd have been much better; in the last several years with too much weight he reminds me of Robby Robinson in the '78 Olympia, looking awesome in size but losing too many other qualities.
-I don't know enough about Yates' best years, probably '93 or '94. Though i've never been a fan and find that like Columbu his physique's a little too much like a powerlifter with the exaggerated torso built for strength, i have to admit that some of the shots in the truce thread are really impressive and changed some of my views that were based on less impressive shots. Because unlike most BBs and especially BBs of the last 20 or more years, he had that great dryness and density which is rare, and seems to have been one of the casualties of today's drugs.
The guys in the 60s and 70s were drier in general when at their best, guys like Sipes, Draper, etc. Yates' conditioning reminds me of Robinson first, then Columbu. Robinson was IMO along with Padilla the best post-Schwarzenegger BB until the 90s, better than the 80s guys. Haney was a huge Robinson fan. I think that density and dryness are some of the most impressive attributes and will always be attractive, whereas size now has actually gotten to be too much IMO, which wasn't imaginable in the 70s. An unnatural look and consequence of meddling with the body's fundamental chemistry through GH and insulin, IMO. Yates didn't have a bad look using those drugs when lean in contest shape, the dryness countered some of the negatives.
Now after the truce thread i regret not picking up Yates and his girlfriend here outside the NY contest almost two years ago. They were alone on the other side of the street about 4 blocks from the show, unable to find a taxi as i climbed into a SUV. I should've offered them a lift.
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-Coleman's never been one of my faves, because of the lack of hardness/some water, and the gyno. Generally looks too loose. In the late 90s where he was so shredded it almost compensated for most but not all of the above negatives, but shredded and dense aren't the same although equally impressive. If he had stayed as he was in the late 90s he'd have been much better; in the last several years with too much weight he reminds me of Robby Robinson in the '78 Olympia, looking awesome in size but losing too many other qualities.
Exactly. They always point out how much bigger Ronnie was than Dorian, but they ignore that a significant part of that weight is fat and water. Ronnie's gut in 2003 surpassed even that of the 1997 Dorian in size, but with the difference that Dorian still looked super-hard, while Coleman lost too much crispness of detail.
-I don't know enough about Yates' best years, probably '93 or '94. Though i've never been a fan and find that like Columbu his physique's a little too much like a powerlifter with the exaggerated torso built for strength, i have to admit that some of the shots in the truce thread are really impressive and changed some of my views that were based on less impressive shots. Because unlike most BBs and especially BBs of the last 20 or more years, he had that great dryness and density which is rare, and seems to have been one of the casualties of today's drugs.
I think his best year was 1995. His gut was under control and he came in with his trademark hardness. Not only that, he added separations to his back that he didn't have before and he was much fuller. Pumpy, i never claimed that Dorian became Mr.Olympia based on his aesthetics; he became Mr.Olympia because of his unbelievable level of muscular development - for the time - and even more unbelievable conditioning. The I.F.B.B judges faced a huge dilema when it came to Dorian's physique: on one hand, they observed his almost complete lack of aesthetics and taper; on th eother, they observed that he had the highest degree of muscular development of all contenders, and that he presented it with super-human hardness. So what were they supposed to do? There were several guys who were more pleaant to the eyes, but looked like children next to Dorian and also soft. And it is hard to deny the title of Mr.Olympia to the guy who has the highest degree of muscular development and comes in super-hard. Not only that, Dorian compensated for his structual shortcomings in many ways. Fro instance, he compensated for his wide hips and waist with the best abdominals and serratus ever seen on a big bodybuilder. He compensated for his sub-par biceps by having one of the best side triceps shot ever.
The guys in the 60s and 70s were drier in general when at their best, guys like Sipes, Draper, etc. Yates' conditioning reminds me of Robinson first, then Columbu. Robinson was IMO along with Padilla the best post-Schwarzenegger BB until the 90s, better than the 80s guys. Haney was a huge Robinson fan. I think that density and dryness are some of the most impressive attributes and will always be attractive, whereas size now has actually gotten to be too much IMO, which wasn't imaginable in the 70s. An unnatural look and consequence of meddling with the body's fundamental chemistry through GH and insulin, IMO. Yates didn't have a bad look using those drugs when lean in contest shape, the dryness countered some of the negatives.
I agre, Pumpy! I think that these drugs work for mass, but not so much for separations and hardness. All the guys who increase their drug intake get bigger, but their muscle quality is not the same. Even if they gain pure muscle, their muscles look less separated and softer than at a low weight. Proof? All of the tiny bodybuilders. like Ray, Labrada, Benffato, etc, always have the most defined and harder physiques! All of the really big guys don't have as much separations as the small guys. Mark my words: Phil Heath will have lost lots of his current outstanding muscle quality after he gains another 40 lbs of muscle through drugs and becomes Mr.Olympia.
Now after the truce thread i regret not picking up Yates and his girlfriend here outside the NY contest almost two years ago. They were alone on the other side of the street about 4 blocks from the show, unable to find a taxi as i climbed into a SUV. I should've offered them a lift.
Yes, you should have. Contrary to what you think, Dorian is one of the nicest guys out there. Remember during the 1990s, when every month FLEX carried comments from some pro where he denigrated Dorianšs physique or Dorian himself, and Dozzer just kept quiet. There is almost a consensus that Dorian is one of the nicest pros out there. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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http://www.bodybuildingreviews.net/vidreviews/GZaneOliva901.html
See my review of the Gallasch film these shots were taken from. It's available on DVD (as linked).
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1972
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1972 O.
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Screen-cap of SERGIOS MASSIVE back at the 72 O.
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A not so common picture of 3 BB Legends @ the 1972 OLYMPIA Relaxed!!!
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A not so common picture of 3 BB Legends @ the 1972 OLYMPIA Relaxed!!!
Great shot.
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Great pics! Thank you! In 72 Sergio was just unreal. The 73 version of Arnold probably was equal or better, more refined anyway, and in 74 Arnolds mass probably was equal to Sergio. But 72 was Sergios year, even Arnold said that.
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Great pics! Thank you! In 72 Sergio was just unreal. The 73 version of Arnold probably was equal or better, more refined anyway, and in 74 Arnolds mass probably was equal to Sergio. But 72 was Sergios year, even Arnold said that.
When/where did Arnold say that?
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W/S Park 1972 8)
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When/where did Arnold say that?
He said something to the effect of "If I had been a judge, I would have picked Sergio, but
I wasn't a judge, I was competing against him, so what do you want from me?" .
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He said something to the effect of "If I had been a judge, I would have picked Sergio, but
I wasn't a judge, I was competing against him, so what do you want from me?" .
Thanks. I'm curious to know where that is from, as Arnold does look at that particular contest with a positive light towards Sergio.
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The best V-Taper around 1972 :o....
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A not so common picture of 3 BB Legends @ the 1972 OLYMPIA Relaxed!!!
WOW :o
This is what I am going for.. Serge Nubret's conditioning, Sergio's size and Arnold's charisma and nice peaked biceps.
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:o
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Thanks. I'm curious to know where that is from, as Arnold does look at that particular contest with a positive light towards Sergio.
It was in an old Muscle and Fitness, I can't recall the exact issue/article, but I will dig through my old stack when I get the time, bear with me. Also to whet your appetite read the part in his "Education of a Bodybuilder" when he describes his first encounter with Oliva at his first Mr O. Good stuff!
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It was in an old Muscle and Fitness, I can't recall the exact issue/article, but I will dig through my old stack when I get the time, bear with me. Also to whet your appetite read the part in his "Education of a Bodybuilder" when he describes his first encounter with Oliva at his first Mr O. Good stuff!
Yes, my favorite part is when he says some of his pump actually went away. LOL! That's bodybuilding. ;)
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1972 Sergio Victory :o
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Arnold FDB 1972!! ;)