Author Topic: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW  (Read 10053 times)

thebrink

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2014, 12:49:26 PM »
David Suzuki is a great man.

Roger Bacon

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2014, 01:00:34 PM »
The Russians poured hundreds of tons of concrete on Chernobyl. Is that not an option here?

That's what I was wondering.  Didn't they also:dump tons of lead dust on it or something?

Maybe they haven't yet because I think they were working to remove rods or something?

avxo

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2014, 01:43:54 PM »
Don't worry, nuclear power is VERY SAFE.

It is very safe - and new technologies, next-generation reactor designs which are fail-safe by design will make it safer still with molten salt cooling systems, different reaction chemistries (think thorium) and reactors which can consume high-level nuclear waste and generate much less dangerous waste which doesn't need storage for millenia will make it even safer.

Granted, the Fukushima Daiichi was a clusterfuck. There's plenty of blame to go around. Both TEPCO and the Japanese Government fucked up big time:

  • shitty maintenance and no upgrades to incorproate newer technologies (the Fukushima plant was a 1960's design and critical "safety" components had not been upgraded or tested in over forty years, nor did improved control technologies get incorporated).
  • No serious disaster planning and preparation (newsflash: earthquakes happen in Japan and they can cause tsunamis; putting diesel generators and fuel storage tanks below sea level is, at best, completely foolish).
  • Bad management of the crisis (between the inability to keep diesel generators running and focusing only on Reactor 2, the shutdown of the other reactors was mishandled).

It all added up and there you have it... INES Level 7 disaster.


The Russians poured hundreds of tons of concrete on Chernobyl. Is that not an option here?

The situation is quite different. The Chernobyl reactor was not housed in a container, the Fukushima reactors are and although the housing of at least one Fukushima reactor has developed cracks and is leaking, pouring cement wouldn't help in any way, especially since the biggest radiation release vector that we are worried about is hot fuel melting through the bottom of the containment vessel and melting its way down to the water table.

Thick Nick

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2014, 01:48:50 PM »
reactor 3 meltdown?

sounds like a daily occurance on getbig.com  ::)

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_aj_

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2014, 01:54:04 PM »
It is very safe - and new technologies, next-generation reactor designs which are fail-safe by design will make it safer still with molten salt cooling systems, different reaction chemistries (think thorium) and reactors which can consume high-level nuclear waste and generate much less dangerous waste which doesn't need storage for millenia will make it even safer.

Granted, the Fukushima Daiichi was a clusterfuck. There's plenty of blame to go around. Both TEPCO and the Japanese Government fucked up big time:

  • shitty maintenance and no upgrades to incorproate newer technologies (the Fukushima plant was a 1960's design and critical "safety" components had not been upgraded or tested in over forty years, nor did improved control technologies get incorporated).
  • No serious disaster planning and preparation (newsflash: earthquakes happen in Japan and they can cause tsunamis; putting diesel generators and fuel storage tanks below sea level is, at best, completely foolish).
  • Bad management of the crisis (between the inability to keep diesel generators running and focusing only on Reactor 2, the shutdown of the other reactors was mishandled).

It all added up and there you have it... INES Level 7 disaster.


The situation is quite different. The Chernobyl reactor was not housed in a container, the Fukushima reactors are and although the housing of at least one Fukushima reactor has developed cracks and is leaking, pouring cement wouldn't help in any way, especially since the biggest radiation release vector that we are worried about is hot fuel melting through the bottom of the containment vessel and melting its way down to the water table.

Thanks. I have heard good things about the 4th generation reactors that can consume their own waste. Of course, in the states there hasn't been a permit issued for a new reactor since the 70's. I am convinced that the eco-folks and the knee-jerk political class will use this as a reason to run away from nuclear power at top speed. Hell, one of the reasons that we haven't done anything with juke power in several generations was because of a fucking MOVIE.

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2014, 02:07:02 PM »
come on down to florida, brother.  I have a nice 4 bedroom ranch with a few front rooms.  we can debate politics and drink merlot til the wee hours while the wives and kids do whatever it is they do.

Unless the radiation is going to reach Florida also.  In that case, get your ass over here, and we can boat-jack someone and head to Cuba.

 ::)

Sinkholes vs. radiation

Instant death vs. not so instant death

I'm gonna go with radiation on this one.

dr.chimps

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2014, 02:09:29 PM »
What a tragic time in history this has become for the Japanese people.  

It's hard to exaggerate the (temporary) demoralizing effect of this grim, radiation-rich, steam that is threatening to bring about a second round of havoc to the recovering Japanese people after the prior quake, wave and radiation trifecta that practically devastated their country.  My Japanese broker friends are stunned into speechlessness and a kind of bottled mania.  You've seen how the Japanese act in the videos and pictures: stoic, orderly, no looters, patient -- they are a brave and quality brilliant people, a far cry from the knuckle-dragging behemoths that heavily mass our cities and are only moved by the idea of celebrity gossip or cheap consumer products.

Some people I know feel that this will *cure* a certain malaise that has deadened the culture for the last generation.  Few economies have had to endure Japan's deflationary puncture after having risen so fast.  But the effort of the recovery and the spur to invention this immense labor will provoke, bode well for the young people coming up right now.  They needed a challenge and a purpose.  They have it now.

We are blessed gentlemen.  We can still come home to endless reruns of reality tv shows and still shoot the shit with our brothers on Getbig, while not having to worry about opening our backyard door to an impending doom.

To those GetBiggers in Japan, I wish you the very best...

"1"
On the flip-side, I can't wait to see what new monsters this radiation engenders.

OneMoreRep

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2014, 02:26:33 PM »
On the flip-side, I can't wait to see what new monsters this radiation engenders.

Eeeek!

"1"

Viking11

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2014, 02:34:33 PM »
Eeeek!

"1"
TIhis is all hype for "Godzilla2014"...

Mobil

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2014, 02:43:54 PM »
ive always wondered about this "nuclear fallout" crap... when they used to set off abombs in nevada for spectators. i remeber seeing video of people watching with sunglasses and feeling the shockwave.... yet  nothing happened
real men= no rubbers

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2014, 02:53:03 PM »
ive always wondered about this "nuclear fallout" crap... when they used to set off abombs in nevada for spectators. i remeber seeing video of people watching with sunglasses and feeling the shockwave.... yet  nothing happened
except that they died of all over cancer at rhe ripe age of 37.

and the blasts from the modern nuclear devices are like 100x more powerful than the original atomic ones.

avxo

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2014, 03:00:50 PM »
ive always wondered about this "nuclear fallout" crap... when they used to set off abombs in nevada for spectators. i remeber seeing video of people watching with sunglasses and feeling the shockwave.... yet  nothing happened

Yes... nothing happened... ::) What did you expect, people to instantly start frothing at the mouth and die? The effects of exposure to radiation are known and studied pretty well, in big part because of idiots like those who were checking out nuclear detonations in the desert. The only thing that was missing from that fun family outing was the beer and the hotdogs.

Don't kid yourself: radioactive fallout is extremely dangerous, and will, if the dose is large enough, lead to a very slow and excruciatingly painful death.

galeniko

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2014, 03:31:25 PM »
haha nuclear power is very safe.

sure.


nothing in the world is safer
n

Borracho

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2014, 03:50:15 PM »
And here I was planning on making a move out west.
1

Mobil

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2014, 05:08:36 PM »
?
real men= no rubbers

Mobil

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2014, 05:10:06 PM »
ice caps gonna melt... like al gore says about global warming.....
real men= no rubbers

99 Bananas

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2014, 05:16:31 PM »
The west coast could very well be fucked.

240 is Back

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2014, 06:06:38 PM »
no shit right? Ill be sure to bring my guitar rig and we can start the getbigger band.
well call it "you look like shit, HTH"

Yes, I would LOVE to move back to bass, fo sho.   Can you do vocal harmonies?

I'm actually developing the johnny cash solo act right now.    :D

Parker

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2014, 07:03:33 PM »
On the flip-side, I can't wait to see what new monsters this radiation engenders.
well, the catfish in the cooling canals and lake of Chernobyl are undersized for their species (Wels Catfish), and they are feeding from the bottom of the canals and cooling pond, which has some of the highest amounts of radiation.

The birds are effed, but not monstrosities.

Nomad

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2014, 07:11:09 PM »
Thats an "issue" with all nuclear reactors. even if the reactor is not in an active state and powered down/SCRAMED they are still hot and have to be actively cooled for months if not years. Within the reactor core you are talking about pounds and pounds of nuclear fuel aka a huge concentration of hot, radioactive material in one place.

Basically, you do not just turn of a nuclear reactor. You can greatly diminish the fission rate by using control rods with neutron absorbing elements but you can't do anything about radioactive decay.
all drugs - TPPIIP

HandsomeMOFO

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2014, 10:53:02 PM »
Yeah, and they spouted all this sort of crap when they built the older models.

And you stupid gullible assholes  believed that too.

It is very safe - and new technologies, next-generation reactor designs which are fail-safe by design will make it safer still with molten salt cooling systems, different reaction chemistries (think thorium) and reactors which can consume high-level nuclear waste and generate much less dangerous waste which doesn't need storage for millenia will make it even safer.

Granted, the Fukushima Daiichi was a clusterfuck. There's plenty of blame to go around. Both TEPCO and the Japanese Government fucked up big time:

  • shitty maintenance and no upgrades to incorproate newer technologies (the Fukushima plant was a 1960's design and critical "safety" components had not been upgraded or tested in over forty years, nor did improved control technologies get incorporated).
  • No serious disaster planning and preparation (newsflash: earthquakes happen in Japan and they can cause tsunamis; putting diesel generators and fuel storage tanks below sea level is, at best, completely foolish).
  • Bad management of the crisis (between the inability to keep diesel generators running and focusing only on Reactor 2, the shutdown of the other reactors was mishandled).

It all added up and there you have it... INES Level 7 disaster.


The situation is quite different. The Chernobyl reactor was not housed in a container, the Fukushima reactors are and although the housing of at least one Fukushima reactor has developed cracks and is leaking, pouring cement wouldn't help in any way, especially since the biggest radiation release vector that we are worried about is hot fuel melting through the bottom of the containment vessel and melting its way down to the water table.

HandsomeMOFO

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2014, 10:53:35 PM »
ive always wondered about this "nuclear fallout" crap... when they used to set off abombs in nevada for spectators. i remeber seeing video of people watching with sunglasses and feeling the shockwave.... yet  nothing happened

Are you retarded?  They got CANCER and died.

Nomad

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2014, 11:00:20 PM »
Yes... nothing happened... ::) What did you expect, people to instantly start frothing at the mouth and die? The effects of exposure to radiation are known and studied pretty well, in big part because of idiots like those who were checking out nuclear detonations in the desert. The only thing that was missing from that fun family outing was the beer and the hotdogs.

Don't kid yourself: radioactive fallout is extremely dangerous, and will, if the dose is large enough, lead to a very slow and excruciatingly painful death.

I'd prefer a quick death over what some victims of extreme radiation exposure had to go through.

Google "Tokaimura nuclear accident" and first go to wiki and then go to Google pictures. Not for the faint of heart.
all drugs - TPPIIP

avxo

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2014, 11:11:55 PM »
haha nuclear power is very safe.

sure.


nothing in the world is safer

I didn't say that nothing in the world is safer – but that's a false dichotomy.

No form of power generation is completely safe.Hydroelectric plants typically required dams, which can fail and, in doing so, devastate huge areas. Coal plants produce hundreds of millions of tons of waste material (some of which is radioactive) and they can also explode to boot, leaving a huge crater behind. Need I go on?

Nuclear power – especially the fourth generation reactor designs – are very safe and, by design, are "fail safe" in the sense that they incorporate passive cooling and loss of control of the reaction results in a safe "automatic" shutdown because of the reactor chemistry.

The U.S. Navy, which has been utilizing nuclear power for decades, has an excellent safety record and has proven that running nuclear power plants can be done safely.

Does that mean nuclear power is all sunshine and lollipops? Of course not. Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and Fukushima all serve as reminders. It is something that needs be designed correctly, built correctly, operated correctly and maintained correctly.

You will find that in every case of failure, the failure was, ultimately, attributed to failing to do one of those four things (or maybe more than one).

It's not a pleasant thought, but examining the evidence rationally tilts the scale in favor of nuclear power over other power generation processes.

It would, of course, be wonderful if we could rely exclusively on solar and wind power generation, but we don't live in a fairy tale. We live in the real world and in the real world we need reliable and constant power; solar and wind just aren't able to sustain us at this point.

Yeah, and they spouted all this sort of crap when they built the older models.

And you stupid gullible assholes  believed that too.

I doubt anybody "spouted" the sort of statements being made today about 4th generation reactors for previous generation designs.

Facts are facts: new designs don't require active cooling and use molten salts instead of steam, do not require pressurized vessels, have reaction chemistries that inherently scram the reactor if reactor control is compromised and consume high-level nuclear waste and actinides. These are easily verifiable facts: the physics and the numbers speak volumes. You may not care to listen (or know how to read) but those of us that do can see how much better the 4th generation reactor designs are.

The gullible are those that don't understand the topic, who don't have the ability to understand it and who rely on parroting the opinion of others (who may not know better either). And there's plenty of gullible people to go around. Look at how many idiots are complaining about wifi causing cancer, vaccines causing autism, gmo foods causing deformities and so on.

HandsomeMOFO

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Re: TEPCO Quietly Admits Reactor 3 Could Be Melting Down NOW
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2014, 11:15:28 PM »

I doubt anybody "spouted" the sort of statements being made today about 4th generation reactors for previous generation designs.

Facts are facts: new designs don't require active cooling and use molten salts instead of steam, do not require pressurized vessels, have reaction chemistries that inherently scram the reactor if reactor control is compromised and consume high-level nuclear waste and actinides. These are easily verifiable facts: the physics and the numbers speak volumes. You may not care to listen (or know how to read) but those of us that do can see how much better the 4th generation reactor designs are.

The gullible are those that don't understand the topic, who don't have the ability to understand it and who rely on parroting the opinion of others (who may not know better either). And there's plenty of gullible people to go around. Look at how many idiots are complaining about wifi causing cancer, vaccines causing autism, gmo foods causing deformities and so on.

All you are is a parrot.