Has one group had so much power as Tea Party Republicans?

[Soul Crusher]

That's life? That's your response?

Well, then this is pointless.... I make about 3-4 times what my sister does, I don't expect her to be able to live properly if she has to pay as much as I do in taxes.

That's absolutely ridiculous to say.

I do not agree with this at all.

Everyone needs to pay something if they get income.   

[240 is Back]

Flat tax will never happen.  the RICH will never let it happen.  let's face it, they control everything and if they did indeed want it, they would get it.

If the bottom 1/4 of society (let's say currently paying NO taxes) suddenly has to pay 15% in taxes... and it's safe to assume they don't save much and spend nearly 100% of their income..

Then 1/4 of society would suddenly be spending 15% less.  Walmart, shoe stores, restaurants, etc suddenly see a 15% drop in sales, automatically.  Companies barely scraping by suddenly see sales drop by 15%.  Good luck with that.  Will never happen.

[tu_holmes]

Everyone needs to pay something if they get income.  

Ridiculous. That's like charging 9 year olds for making money on a lemonade stand.

[Soul Crusher]

Ridiculous. That's like charging 9 year olds for making money on a lemonade stand.

Yes! 

If you make $10 in income, pay $1.     

[Necrosis]

Flat tax will never happen.  the RICH will never let it happen.  let's face it, they control everything and if they did indeed want it, they would get it.

If the bottom 1/4 of society (let's say currently paying NO taxes) suddenly has to pay 15% in taxes... and it's safe to assume they don't save much and spend nearly 100% of their income..

Then 1/4 of society would suddenly be spending 15% less.  Walmart, shoe stores, restaurants, etc suddenly see a 15% drop in sales, automatically.  Companies barely scraping by suddenly see sales drop by 15%.  Good luck with that.  Will never happen.

wow you understand economics? that the billionaires dont aid the economy but that the regular joe who pays into these companies do? henry ford raised his minimum wage because he realized his workers would now spend money and become consumers of his product, economics 101, the average joe has to spend his money and keep the demand going. Those buying jets do not.

[Necrosis]

Yes! 

If you make $10 in income, pay $1.     

relativity doesn't matter?

[tu_holmes]

Yes!  

If you make $10 in income, pay $1.      

If you are being sarcastic, I laugh with you... If you're being serious... I'm dumbfounded.

That is the type of policy that will increase police action in the country... more agents trying to track down whether or not you paid your due to the evil empire.

[240 is Back]

wow you understand economics? that the billionaires dont aid the economy but that the regular joe who pays into these companies do? henry ford raised his minimum wage because he realized his workers would now spend money and become consumers of his product, economics 101, the average joe has to spend his money and keep the demand going. Those buying jets do not.

i saw yesterday that in the last 10 years... 2.9 mil jobs lost in USA, and 2.4 mil jobs ADDED overseas... from US corporations.

The jobs aren't disappearing - Rich american business owners are moving them overseas.

[tu_holmes]

i saw yesterday that in the last 10 years... 2.9 mil jobs lost in USA, and 2.4 mil jobs ADDED overseas... from US corporations.

The jobs aren't disappearing - Rich american business owners are moving them overseas.

Exactly... They are going where they see the labor as cheap... All while having the LOWEST taxes in HISTORY!!!

So low taxes have done WHAT?

Allow them to take their extra capital and move jobs over the ocean.

[Soul Crusher]

If you are being sarcastic, I laugh with you... If you're being serious... I'm dumbfounded.

That is the type of policy that will increase police action in the country... more agents trying to track down whether or not you paid your due to the evil empire.

No, I support a LOW flat tax across the board.  Its utter bullshit that 50% pay nothing.   Those 50% who pay nothing at all will always vote for the assholes promising more taxes on the other 50% since it does not impact them.   Thats nonsense.   

[240 is Back]

Exactly... They are going where they see the labor as cheap... All while having the LOWEST taxes in HISTORY!!!

So low taxes have done WHAT?

Allow them to take their extra capital and move jobs over the ocean.

100% correct.   Proof is in the pudding.

They had their tax breaks since 2001, and they've moved jobs anyway.  They've been buying up gold and foreign currency.  The dollar is sinking partially because of this.  You let them keep 19% more of their income (from a 34 to 15% flat rate) and all they'll do it put that money into Silver and more mnfg plants in Phillipines.

Stupid ass people argue for flat tax, plain and simple.

[240 is Back]

No, I support a LOW flat tax across the board.  Its utter bullshit that 50% pay nothing.   

They put 100% of their income right back into the economy and GDP, and they are taxed bigtime on sales tax, which is a 6 or 7% tax on damn near everything they buy.

The rich purchase FAR less, and have some pretty nifty tax havens to aid as well.  There aren't many tax breaks for people buying $9 shoes at Walmart.

[Soul Crusher]

Exactly... They are going where they see the labor as cheap... All while having the LOWEST taxes in HISTORY!!!

So low taxes have done WHAT?

Allow them to take their extra capital and move jobs over the ocean.

Its not only taxes forcing jobs overseas.   Its everything! 


Again - until and unless you have run a business with employees, you have no clue about this.     

[tu_holmes]

Its not only taxes forcing jobs overseas.   Its everything! 


Again - until and unless you have run a business with employees, you have no clue about this.     

I do help my family do this... I talk to the accounts, I know that the Healthcare bill is hurting us... I know that food costs are higher... Yet we still make GREAT money.

So tell me again that I "have no clue"?

We aren't the EXTREME rich... The business does VERY well though... We will feel some struggle, but we are not closing our doors, not by any stretch and when we do decide to "Get out", we are just going to sell the franchises.

[Soul Crusher]

I do help my family do this... I talk to the accounts, I know that the Healthcare bill is hurting us... I know that food costs are higher... Yet we still make GREAT money.

So tell me again that I "have no clue"?

We aren't the EXTREME rich... The business does VERY well though... We will feel some struggle, but we are not closing our doors, not by any stretch and when we do decide to "Get out", we are just going to sell the franchises.

Its insurance, DOL, workers comp, lawsuits, disability, UI skryrocketing, tort claims, discrimination suits, state taxes and levies, etc etc. 

The cost of doing business in this country has become way too high for most businesses to remain viable. 

[tu_holmes]

Its insurance, DOL, workers comp, lawsuits, disability, UI skryrocketing, tort claims, discrimination suits, state taxes and levies, etc etc. 

The cost of doing business in this country has become way too high for most businesses to remain viable. 

I know all about the rules, regulations and things we pay out.

We are still VERY profitable. We have 6 stores and most people WISH they had the income we have (as a family unit... I don't really get any of it... It goes Mom and Dad, and of course we get some benefit of their success, but I don't really get the profits myself)

[Soul Crusher]

I know all about the rules, regulations and things we pay out.

We are still VERY profitable. We have 6 stores and most people WISH they had the income we have (as a family unit... I don't really get any of it... It goes Mom and Dad, and of course we get some benefit of their success, but I don't really get the profits myself)

And thats great.   However - its not the case for businesses who actually manufacture and produce items in this country, which is where most of the outsourcing is occurring.   

[tu_holmes]

And thats great.   However - its not the case for businesses who actually manufacture and produce items in this country, which is where most of the outsourcing is occurring.   

I'm saying we are the small business. No, we are not the machine shop, but we are the small business either way.

[Dos Equis]

If they hold their ground and refuse to raise the debt ceiling, Obama is completely powerless to act.  I really hope they call Obama's bluff and force him to make tough choices.  I literally think he would resign before making cuts. 

They've had a big impact.  They are part of the reason the Obama/liberal spending train has been slowed. 

[MB]

If you make 19K a year, do you really think you should have to pay 50% of it to the government.

The reality is that the truly wealthy, can afford it.... Is it "Fair" in the sense of equal payout... perhaps not, but it is "fair" when it comes to being able to survive.

How is it fair to expect a person who brings home 10K a year after taxes to be able to survive like someone who brings home 250,000?

It's not the government's job to redistribute wealth.  A person making 10k/year has chosen that lifestyle.  Each individual has to accept responsibility for their own welfare.  A truly fair tax system does not discriminate based on wealth, ie flat tax or sales tax. 

[240 is Back]

A truly fair tax system does not discriminate based on wealth, ie flat tax or sales tax. 

have there been any examples of truly fair tax systems in modern times?

[Dos Equis]

It's not the government's job to redistribute wealth.  A person making 10k/year has chosen that lifestyle.  Each individual has to accept responsibility for their own welfare.  A truly fair tax system does not discriminate based on wealth, ie flat tax or sales tax. 

I agree. 

[MB]

have there been any examples of truly fair tax systems in modern times?

You could argue that our sales tax system is fair.  It does not discriminate based on income.

[240 is Back]

You could argue that our sales tax system is fair.  It does not discriminate based on income.

correct.  BUT if you bumped that to 15 or 20% and removed all income taxes, you would see sales PLUMMET.

Rich people aren't going to buy 100 yachts with their new money.  But poor people (already spending 100% of their income) will buy far less.  Rich people will suffer as stock in every company in America drops.

[MB]

correct.  BUT if you bumped that to 15 or 20% and removed all income taxes, you would see sales PLUMMET.

Rich people aren't going to buy 100 yachts with their new money.  But poor people (already spending 100% of their income) will buy far less.  Rich people will suffer as stock in every company in America drops.

Is a 10% federal sales tax going to discourage a wealthy person from buying a yacht?  Perhaps, but I would argue that freeing him/her up from all the other taxes would put them in a position to spend.