Swing States Erupt

[Earl1972]

At least if Obama wins (and I hope he dies) he'll save the U.S from the shit that idiot bush has done to it, if McCain wins you guys will just sink deeper and deeper. At this point McCain will say anything to get a vote, it's obvious. At least Obama supports some real issues and reform.

you like obama but you want him to die?

E

[Captain Equipoise]

you like obama but you want him to die?

E

hope he 'DOES' , spelling mistake

[Mons Venus]

Like I said, I know McCain isn't going to win. I've accepted that. I just can't believe people that voted for him are that naive. Oh well.

 

[El Guapo]

I know.......I also know McCain won't win.

its not over man.... there is still a shot McCain pulls this off.

[The Freakshow]

Joe, you are a wealthy guy living in Cali.

Five years ago, I left my teaching career making 40k a year and struggled for 18 months when i went back to school full time while earning computer certifications and MBA.

For 18 months, I lived in a trailer park. 

And I can tell you first hand, that the people who live there DO live by their guns and their bibles.  They have no health care, for the most part, so they cling to religion/faith and they know they'll die young.  Also, trailer parks are some unsafe places.  I clung to my guns like crazy when I lived there - peolpe walking thru your yards, stealing shit, etc.


So before you claim Obama is wrong, Joe, I encourage you to spend some time talking to the 47-year old woman with ovarian cancer (and no cancer) living in a high-crime trailer park.  You'll see they are fvckin bitter, and they do cling to religion and guns.  And if anyone says I'm wrong - you're full of shit, I'm afraid.  I have been there.  It sucks big time.

Saying that people cling to their Guns & Religion is not bad. The problem with Obama's statement is that he implied they cling to them "because" they are bitter. In effect, he is saying that if they weren't bitter, then they wouldn't cling to their guns & religion. So their faith is without substance. That it's just temporary. That you have to be bitter to cling to guns & religion. That is what is offensive. The reality is, people will cling to their guns & religion regardless of their current situation. They are part of a person's core values and aren't based on circumstances.

[240 is Back]

Saying that people cling to their Guns & Religion is not bad. The problem with Obama's statement is that he implied they cling to them "because" they are bitter. In effect, he is saying that if they weren't bitter, then they wouldn't cling to their guns & religion. So their faith is without substance. That it's just temporary. That you have to be bitter to cling to guns & religion. That is what is offensive. The reality is, people will cling to their guns & religion regardless of their current situation. They are part of a person's core values and aren't based on circumstances.

If you put 100 people in a room.

50 of them live in trailer parks, and worry about having no health care and meth heads stealing their TV.
50 of them live in beverly Hills and worry about their vacation homes or law firm's vitality.

The 50 that live in the trailers are going to cling to their guns and god more.  And it's because they NEED their guns to feel safe, whereas the rich 50 live in gated communities.  And it's because they NEED religion, as they die a lot younger.

You can't describe it - the hopelessness - until you've seen it.  Shotgun, bible, TV, and their beer.  Pass the time.  They're bitter too. 

[The Freakshow]

If you put 100 people in a room.

50 of them live in trailer parks, and worry about having no health care and meth heads stealing their TV.
50 of them live in beverly Hills and worry about their vacation homes or law firm's vitality.

The 50 that live in the trailers are going to cling to their guns and god more.  And it's because they NEED their guns to feel safe, whereas the rich 50 live in gated communities.  And it's because they NEED religion, as they die a lot younger.

You can't describe it - the hopelessness - until you've seen it.  Shotgun, bible, TV, and their beer.  Pass the time.  They're bitter too. 

I understand what you're saying. I have seen it. Yes, when people are in desperate situations, they do realize their need for religion. That's why there are so many "Jaihouse Conversions", etc.

Those types of conversions are not always genuine or become part of the person's core values.

However, when guns & religion are part of person's core values and beliefs, circumstances don't matter. Bitterness does not control their beliefs. When they stop being bitter, they don't get rid of their guns or dump their religion.

[240 is Back]

I agree on some of that.

Obama doesn't have this thing won just yet.  Stranger things have happened.

[Bast000]

Some people could be lying as they are polled, and may not vote for Obama. The "Bradley effect"

[Emmortal]

Some people could be lying as they are polled, and may not vote for Obama. The "Bradley effect"

Yup, exactly.  Some people might be afraid to say they won't vote for him because he IS black.

I think it's going to be a lot closer than many people think, mainly due to racism.

[Hedgehog]

What Democrats fail to realise is why most Republican voters are supporting the Republicans.
The Democrats think the voters will vote for whoever gives the voter the best deal.
But Republicans have for long had an understanding that voters will often vote for values instead of real politics.
 I have no insight into Joe the Plumbers economy. But there are plenty of low class whites in rural areas who would probably benefit personally from a Democrat in office - bigger spending on infrastructure eg.
  But Democrats loses these areas. Again and again.
Because they don't understand the people living there.

[tbombz]

Some people could be lying as they are polled, and may not vote for Obama. The "Bradley effect"

i think there is also some 'reverse bradley effect' as well though... lots of poor rednecks who would never admit to voting for a black man but understand that that black man is their only shot at getting some help and getting out of poverty..

[The Coach]

Hey Rob, did McCain say he wanted to bankrupt the coal industry?

[dr.chimps]

IMO, he'll be worse than Carter.

Hmm. You say that like a bad thing. The man got Begin and Sadat together. What peace intiatives did Shrub come up with? 

[240 is Back]

Hey Rob, did McCain say he wanted to bankrupt the coal industry?

Honestly, I do not know.  It seems the Coal union President said Obama was referring to putting 'dirty' coal out of business - as his energy policy employs the use of clean-burning coal.  It also seems McCain pulled this out so it'd break in OH the day before the election, and there wouldn't be an explanation on Tuesday.

The clip was posted online by the same YouTube user who last month unearthed and heavily edited a 2001 clip of Obama speaking to Chicago Public Radio.

"Sen. John McCain and his running mate, Gov. Sarah Palin, have once again demonstrated that they are willing to say anything and do anything to win this election. Their latest twisting of the truth is about coal and some comments Sen. Obama made last January about the future use of coal in America," said Cecil E. Roberts, president of the United Mine Workers of America, in a statement released Monday afternoon.


Honestly, when it comes to coal issues, I tend to believe the pres of the UMWA over Team McCain.

[CQ]

i think there is also some 'reverse bradley effect' as well though... lots of poor rednecks who would never admit to voting for a black man but understand that that black man is their only shot at getting some help and getting out of poverty..

Yes, I think also. I think he may loose a net 1/2% due to the Bradley, but the issue you just mentioned will stop him from losing more.

If you put 100 people in a room.

50 of them live in trailer parks, and worry about having no health care and meth heads stealing their TV.
50 of them live in beverly Hills and worry about their vacation homes or law firm's vitality.

The 50 that live in the trailers are going to cling to their guns and god more.  And it's because they NEED their guns to feel safe, whereas the rich 50 live in gated communities.  And it's because they NEED religion, as they die a lot younger.

You can't describe it - the hopelessness - until you've seen it.  Shotgun, bible, TV, and their beer.  Pass the time.  They're bitter too. 

On a serious note, my hubby and I visited a friend of ours in a southern state trailer park in the early 1990's. We got the impression [seriously] that people wanted to, uh, commit violence on us. That was my only experience in one and it stuck with me, was unnerving.

[240 is Back]

On a serious note, my hubby and I visited a friend of ours in a southern state trailer park in the early 1990's. We got the impression [seriously] that people wanted to, uh, commit violence on us. That was my only experience in one and it stuck with me, was unnerving.

you have lots of people that are drug users, mental illness.  You also see people dying of something terminal who cannot work, just running out the clock.  A pretty dismal place.  I stayed there a year and a half rent-free, working 18 hours per day on degree and certifications.  But I learned a lot of humility there too.  There but for the grace of God goes any of us.  We might be living large today.  But you could have a bad month where you lose job, spouse leaves, market tanks, or you get clipped by a drunk driver... and any one of us could be sitting in a trailer running out the clock.