Roulette - has anyone cracked the code?

[Jon Harridan]

JACK T, Unless JON objects, I’ll offer some interesting facts about the game of casino craps starting with the major equipment used in the game.

Some of you get biggers may find the following info regarding casino dice to be of interest

The following is a cut and paste job  in my effort to save time which I’ll eventually follow up with the best way to play the game if anyone is really interested.

I say “play the game” instead of “win the game”  because even if you learn to play like an expert, there is no assurance that you’ll leave the table as a winner .

The only thing that I can guarantee is that you’ll lose less over the long term if you understand the game and play it wisely.

So to start off  ….  Here are ome facts regarding casino dice ……

Casinos don't take any chances when it comes to profit so they don't use just any dice when thousands of dollars are riding on a roll.

Casino dice are called perfect or precision dice because of the way they are made.

They are as close to being perfect true cubes as possible, measured to within a fraction of a millimetre, manufactured so each die has an absolutely equal chance of landing on any one of its six faces.

Casino dice are specially hand made to within a tolerance of 0.0005 of an inch. The spots are drilled and filled with material that is equal in weight to the material removed. Usually sides are flush and edges sharp.  They are predominantly transparent red but can come in other colours like green, purple or blue.  Spots are usually solid but a number of different designs can be found.
  
It is believed all casino dice should have the same conventional arrangement of faces and spots.  They're right handed so that if the 1-spot is face up and the 2-spot is turned to face the left then the 3-spot is to the right of it with all opposing sides adding up to 7.  If the 1-spot is face up then the 3-spot runs diagonally up from the left and the 2-spot runs diagonally down from the left.  A different orientation of the spots is sometimes used on crooked dice (made to look like casino dice) so a cheat can differentiate them from a set of straight dice.  

Since the 1970s, and the move to corporate owned casinos, it has become more and more common for casino dice to have serial numbers printed on them. The number is 3 or 4 numeric digits, possibly with letters and dashes, usually printed on the 6-spot but can be found on any face except the 1-spot. This number denotes the issue and is used to prevent them being switched for crooked dice. Another security check sometimes used is having key letters printed on the underneath of spots which can only be viewed by looking through the transparent die.  The casino's name, sometimes location, and/or logo will often be printed on the dice too using a metallic foil.  The 1-spot usually bares the casino's name while the 2-spot may have the logo.

The most common size today is 3/4 inch but the size can vary with 5/8 inch and 11/16 inch the next most common sizes.

Casino dice were made of cellulose nitrate, starting around the 1920s, but sometime around the 1950s the manufacturers switched to cellulose acetate which is more durable. Very old casino dice have often started to crystallise and will have turned yellowish around the edges. This crystallisation is caused by age and exposure to moisture and ultra-violet light.  A completely crystallised die will disintegrate if pressure is applied.

Casino dice can be readily bought. However, many cheap casino dice are in fact rejects that haven't met the manufacturers standards or used dice that have been cancelled by their casino. Both rejects and used dice will have been defaced in some way.

Manufacturers call rejects culls. These are factory marked with a hot pin in the centre of the 4-spot or hot stamped with a number of 'X' or star symbols or just simply stamped with the word "VOID".  Some manufacturers stamp a gold "O" onto the four spot.
            
Used dice may be bought as souvenirs from many casinos although some refuse to let them go. When a die is taken out of play it will be cancelled. It could be that a hole is drilled through it or a crescent or circle is pressed into one side with a vice.  

Sometimes a gold bar is hot stamped on the six-spot.  A sharp pointed metal scribe is often used to press a small shallow mark into a face.  Some older dice were scratched or had a date or initials marked on them.  By state law Atlantic City casinos must drill all the way through their used dice.
      
If you want true perfect dice then pay the extra for a stick. A stick is a number of dice that are still in their sealed pack as delivered by the manufacturer.

That's more  than you need to know to play the game .... but it's a decent start.

Great post.

[Jon Harridan]

Get off roulette house has to big advantage... If you enjoy the game play it for entertainment, if your there to make $ head to the sports book or craps table best odds, that's why you don't get comps at the sports book even if you betting 10k through out the day. Ive seen it done at blackjack that prob be my 3rd choice and the system there bet whatever your bet is and half of what you win as soon as you lose you go back to your initial bet. The cards roll for you and against you, so when your winning your leveraging your profits to make more profits and when there rolling against you you have your min bet out... I've also done it in pi-gow you have to have the fortune bonus avail some games have it and some not, and the idea there is 25% of what in the main circle goes in the fortune bonus circle. Ex if your bet is 200 in main circle ud put another 50 in the fortune bonus circle for total of 250 in play. If u hit 4 of kind which happen more than u think the fortune bonus pays 1250. Also what's cool about that game is your $ last longer cause u have to win both hands so u push alot...

I must say sports betting has its lures since I can predict some soccer and NBA results with great accuracy. For example, the San Antonio Spurs win most of their home games.

[stuntmovie]

JON, I'm not much of a sports' bettor but I can tell you that it's not a simple matter of merely picking the winning team because you also have to pick the winning team and the point spread.

The experts who set the line (POINT SPREAD) here in Vegas set it so that there will be an even number of bettors placing an even amount of bets on either team.

Thereby ..... there's enough cash in the bank to pay off the winners through the losers.

If too many betters are betting on Team "A", they can change the point spread to persuade bettors to place a bet on Team "B" in an effort to keep the bets on both teams equal.

The casino profit comes from that extra dollar you have to pay when you  make your bet.

Any correction to the above would be appreciated.

[WOOO]

gambling is a sign of stupidity

unless you are good at winning

[stuntmovie]

POB, Here in LV you do get comps while placing bets in a Sports Book, These sport book comps are usually drink coupons but most casinos keep track of their gambling customers and send them damn impressive comps through the mail each month.

I'm not a big gambler by any means but I still receive enough free stuff offers from about six major LV casinos each and every month.

just this past month this 'free stuff' consisted of the following 'free stuff'.

a. One daily pull on the Multi-Million Dollar slot machine (MEGA BUCKS -$12,700,000 and climbing).
b.. Over $400 slot machine free-play spread out over the month of April.
c. $100+ free bets at various table games.
d. About two free buffets each week.
e. Free hats, T-shirts, toasters, mugs, umbrellas., etc
f. Three night hotel room stay.
g. Numerous free shows.

So a lot of the comps that the casinos offer its players are never seen unless you are the person receiving these comped offers through the mail.

And sports betters receive the same.

I receive stacks of these free stuff offers through the mail each month and it takes all my free time to take advantage of each and every one.

[Jon Harridan]

JON, I'm not much of a sports' bettor but I can tell you that it's not a simple matter of picking the winning team because you also have to pick the winning team and the point spread.

The experts who set the line (POINT SPREAD) here in Vegas set it so that there will be an even number of bettors placing an even amount of bets on either team.

Thereby ..... there's enough cash in the bank to pay off the winners through the losers.

If too many betters are betting on Team "A", they can change the point spread to persuade bettors to place a bet on Team "B" in an effort to keep the bets on both teams equal.

The casino profit comes from that extra dollar you have to pay when you  make your bet.

Any correction to the above would be appreciated.

Yes, you're right in that there's an option to bet with the points spread at better odds obviously, but if you're unsure if your team can cover the spread, it's definitely safer and better to simply pick the winner at lower odds. These are for bookmakers, not casinos.

[reppingfor20]

lol people thinking they can beat the casino's still...it is rigged against you idiots.  There is no way to beat it unless you cheat, and you will get caught eventually if you let greed take over because greed is a very powerful thing, long run you lose money, cheat for short while you gain it, but have to stop before you get caught.

[stuntmovie]

REP, Explain some of these cheating methods if you will.

And ...... Most people find lots of entertainment in casino games. And not all of them are 'idiots'.

But I do see a lot of 'stupidity' among a good number of intelligent people who place a lot of hard earned cash at risk without knowing anything about the game they're sitting at.

And I also assume some players are stupid when they chase their losses .... but sometimes even those individuals turn it all around and walk out winners.

The real stupid ones play the games that give the House the big advantage.

I hope to explain that "House Advantage" or "House Edge" next.

[BayGBM]

Always bet on black! (no racist)

x2

[stuntmovie]

A real gambler’s definition of HOUSE EDGE is long and complicated but to make it simple ....... it merely shows you what percentage of your gambling dollar the casino expects to win each time the cards are delt or each time the dice are rolled, etc.

So it’s to a player’s advantage to only play those casino games in which the House Edge is at its lowest.

Here are the  House Edges for the most popular casino games  ..... excluding sports betting and poker and the slot machines.

Blackjack   0.75%  if played correctly (This means that the player can assume that for every $10 wager he makes …. he will lose 7.5  cents on the average.

Baccarrat   1.2%

Craps    1.58%

Casino War    2.87%

Single “0” Roulette    2.6%

Double “0” Roulette   5.26%

Big Wheel                  11 – 24%

Keno                           25 – 29%

So  most intelligent players play Blackjack, Baccarat , and Craps because those games have lower House Edge percentages than the other casino games ..... which makes the possibility of winning somewhat easier.

Next up ....  Basic Strategy for Blackjack.

[Samourai Pizzacat]

A real gambler’s definition of HOUSE EDGE id long and complicated but to make it simpler ....... it merely shows you what percentage of your gambling dollar the casino expects to win each time the cards are delt or each time the dice are rolled, etc.

So it’s to a player’s advantage to only play those casino games in which the House Edge is at its lowest.

Here are the  House Edges for the most popular casino games  ..... excluding sports betting and poker and the slot machines.

Blackjack   0.75%  if played correctly (This means that the player can assume that for every $10 wager he makes …. he will lose 7.5  cents on the average.

Baccarrat   1.2%

Craps    1.58%

Casino War    2.87%

Single “0” Roulette    2.6%

Double “0” Roulette   5.26%

Big Wheel                  11 – 24%

Keno                           25 – 29%

So  most intelligent players play Blackjack, Baccarat , and Craps because those games have lower House Edge percentages than the other casino games ..... which makes the possibility of winning somewhat easier.

Next up ....  Basic Strategy for Blackjack.

Ergo. the house always wins, especially in the long run.

Go play poker, at least then you're playing people instead of the system.

[stuntmovie]

My Casino game of choice is Blackjack because it offers the lowest House Edge and I know the game perfectly and when to hit and when to stay
And I honestly can’t recall the last time I left a casino as a loser after a Blackjack session.

I haven’t lost due to the fact that I set limits and know the game as well as any expert, but the main reason is that … I don’t get greedy.

I most always pack it up and head off  to the casino cage whenever I double my bankroll.

When “greed” enters the game is always downhill financially from that point on.

But I always have to FORCE MYSELF to leave the table because the game and the commoradity among the other playes is so damn enjoyable.

So if you decide to play Blackjack …. You should definitely be an expert at BASIC STRATEGY,

And that simply means that you gotta know when to hit, and when to stay, and when to double down, and sometimes even when to surrender.

So here’s some BASIC STRATEGY information (assuming that you already understand how the game is  played).

If the dealer’s up-card is a 2 or a 3 ……,, Always stand if you are holding a 13 or more

If the dealer’s up-card is 4, 5,  or 6 ……,, Always stand if you are holding a 12 or more.

If the dealer’s up-card is anything else …. Always hit till you reach 17 and then stand.

There’s more but you gotta digest that first.

[stuntmovie]

PIZZACAT .... Yep the house will always win over the long term but strange things happen to that House Edge over short term periods when casino gamblers actually win.

ANd some manage to win a shit load of greenbacks.

I'm a cheap assed gambler and usually buy in with $30 at a $3 BJ table and always force myself to quit when I double my bankroll.

I have my ups and downs but within 60 minutes or so I reach my goal and force myself to head off to the cashier cage to convert my chips.

I do my best to avoid the greed factor and be satisfied with my small winnings.

So far its been working well.

[minto]

there is no method you nerd, just quit while your up.

[The Abdominal Snoman]

What kind of regulation is with these online poker/etc games? Seems to me that these would be the easiest for the house to cheat. Putting your hard earned money against a computer program just doesn't sit well. Esp/since most if not all are off shore.

[Jon Harridan]

there is no method you nerd, just quit while your up.

Hehe, I think I've just discovered a shocking new method. Should I spill the beans here? Or should I charge a heavy fee?

[Jon Harridan]

My Casino game of choice is Blackjack because it offers the lowest House Edge and I know the game perfectly and when to hit and when to stay
And I honestly can’t recall the last time I left a casino as a loser after a Blackjack session.

I haven’t lost due to the fact that I set limits and know the game as well as any expert, but the main reason is that … I don’t get greedy.

I most always pack it up and head off  to the casino cage whenever I double my bankroll.

When “greed” enters the game is always downhill financially from that point on.

But I always have to FORCE MYSELF to leave the table because the game and the commoradity among the other playes is so damn enjoyable.

So if you decide to play Blackjack …. You should definitely be an expert at BASIC STRATEGY,

And that simply means that you gotta know when to hit, and when to stay, and when to double down, and sometimes even when to surrender.

So here’s some BASIC STRATEGY information (assuming that you already understand how the game is  played).

If the dealer’s up-card is a 2 or a 3 ……,, Always stand if you are holding a 13 or more

If the dealer’s up-card is 4, 5,  or 6 ……,, Always stand if you are holding a 12 or more.

If the dealer’s up-card is anything else …. Always hit till you reach 17 and then stand.

There’s more but you gotta digest that first.

What do you think of the strategy of standing on any hard total of 12 or higher? Isn't that the best strategy not to bust, and to take your chances, in the long term? Even if you hit and escape busting, that may still be less than the dealer's total (if he doesn't bust, that is)! Maybe an exception is to hit on 12, but on no more than that (like say 13 even), for even that is risky. Of course, you should stand on any soft total of 20 or higher. Doubling or taking insurance in the long run aren't worth it either.

[sync pulse]

Has anybody cracked the code to roulette? I've lost thousands gambling online, and need to recoup my losses. Sadly the Martingale system doesn't work as the unpredictable streaks in roulette can leave you lying flat.

"Zero" and "double zero" were added to Las vegas roulette wheels to counter martingale systems...

[Jon Harridan]

"Zero" and "double zero" were added to Las vegas roulette wheels to counter martingale systems...

That's why I only play European roulette: there's no "double zero".

[stuntmovie]

JON, your idea of standing on any Blackjack hand of 12 or higher is a well known and somewhat common System and is often referred to as “The System of Fools” or the system which beginners use because they just don’t know better, or possibly even how to play the game.

I won’t go into the complete details but it’s been analyzed statistically by the experts and proven to be a very dumb way to play Blackjack if you want to make a profit.

If I can find that report, I’ll do my best to post it here.

And DOOUBLING DOWN is most definitely to your advantage but definitely depends on what the dealer’s up-card happens to be.

But taking Insurance is not to your advantage.

If you doubt the above, sit at a table and use that strategy and the experienced players will definitely feel sorry for you and start offering helpful suggestions..

It may work a couple of times but in the long run it’s worthless.

ABDOMINAL, I can’t answer your question about the regulations of on-line gambling because I never gamble on line.

In fact I almost never gamble against any machine here in LV either unless it happens to be a slot machine that I know is LOOSE.

Here in Vegas you can now play Craps and Roulette while sitting at a machine and I only do so when they first come out but just for a few minutes to see how they work.

I don’t think that they are rigged in the casino’s favor other than the fact that somehow the House Edge is ‘built in”, but since I can’t quite figure them out …. I avoid them.

As far as on-line gambling goes …. It would be too easy to adjust the odds against the player so I have no interest in on-line gambling either.

I like to play the game when and where I can either cuss or tip the dealer.

[El Diablo Blanco]

JON, your idea of standing on any Blackjack hand of 12 or higher is a well known and somewhat common System and is often referred to as “The System of Fools” or the system which beginners use because they just don’t know better, or possibly even how to play the game.

I won’t go into the complete details but it’s been analyzed statistically by the experts and proven to be a very dumb way to play the Blackjack if you want to make a profit.

If I can find that report, I’ll do my best to post it here.

And DOOUBLING DOWN is most definitely to your advantage but definitely depends on what the dealer’s up-card happens to be.

But taking Insurance is not to your advantage.

If you doubt the above, sit at a table and use that strategy and the experienced players will definitely feel sorry for you and start offering helpful suggestions..

It may work a couple of times but in the long run it’s worthless.

ABDOMINAL, I can’t answer your question about the regulations of on-line gambling because I never gamble on line.

In fact I almost never gamble against any machine here in LV either unless it happens to be a slot machine that I know is LOOSE.

Here in Vegas you can now play Craps and Roulette while sitting at a machine and I only do so when they first come out but just for a few minutes to see how they work.

I don’t think that they are rigged in the casino’s favor other than the fact that somehow the House Edge is ‘built in”, but since I can’t quite figure them out …. I avoid them.

As far as on-line gambling goes …. It would be too easy to adjust the odds against the player so I have no interest in on-line gambling either.

I like to play the game when and where I can either cuss or tip the dealer.

Remember that most casinos now have auto shufflers that they continously feed.  So most of the odds are skewed because you never know how a deck is stacked one way or another.  Unless you are playing single deck blackjack most of the times it is a suckers game.

[El Diablo Blanco]

What kind of regulation is with these online poker/etc games? Seems to me that these would be the easiest for the house to cheat. Putting your hard earned money against a computer program just doesn't sit well. Esp/since most if not all are off shore.

NONE.  Most of ran out of warehouses on Indian land to evade the law.  There have been big busts lately where some poker sites had super user accounts where they can see your hands and bet accordingly.  One dude ran the stats and figured that there is no way someone should be winning the way certain accounts did and then the FBI stepped in and investigate and found they fucked people out of Millions.

Another thing is that these sites are supposed to carry enough money to pay out what people have in their accounts. They found that the sites were taking that money and distributing it amongst themselves and that they didn't even have enough money to cover.

Shady shit.

[dr.chimps]

Good info, Stunt. Next time I'm in town, I'll want a walk-around. Might save me a few less tears.   

[lovemonkey]

The best approach to gambling is to set up a gambling-budget for the weekend in Vegas or wherever and consider that money to be lost before you even begin. Gambling against the house is entertainment and nothing else. The same way you'd pay 10 bucks to go to the cinemas you'd also "pay" x amount of money to gamble for a y amount of time. Only "pay" the amount of money you can comfortably afford. Would you blow your life savings on any other entertainment than gambling? Probably not, so always keep that in the back of your head. Any profit is pure bonus and should never be considered as a part of a "good streak".

[OneMoreRep]

Why don't you guys stick to a game like Texas Hold'em Poker?

Typically, when I sit and play this game in a casino, I can calculate my odds of winning starting soon after receiving my 2 cards and more precisely upon viewing the flop.

If you play wisely and don't get trigger happy, you can actually make money in this game.

"1"