Author Topic: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!  (Read 19112 times)

Grundle

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Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« on: February 12, 2006, 09:14:26 PM »
 :'(
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onlyme

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2006, 01:59:50 AM »
Quote
Of course you're assuming that it was Craig and not Kelly that did the killing.

Riddle me this.... why the hell would a guy as big as Craig need a stun gun? He could kill or incapicate her with his bare hands.

Riddle me this...... why do the majority of murders happen with an instrument rather than the bare hands.  Many men who have killed their wives, girlfriends, friends or others use many objects rather than their hands.  I would say it's for simplicity or assurance that the job will be done as quick as possible without leaving fingerprints or other physical evidence. 

Incapicatating Melissa so that she can't struggle and possbily leave scratch marks or other evidence is a great reason to use a stun gun.  Unless you have complete and utter 100% confidence in yourself to knock out or kill someone with a single blow then using something or anything to help you get the job done is only sensible.

gh15

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2006, 02:49:39 AM »
Of course you're assuming that it was Craig and not Kelly that did the killing.
Riddle me this.... why the hell would a guy as big as Craig need a stun gun? He could kill or incapicate her with his bare hands.
the murderer is not a big guy he's 5'8 with average frame. his hands are not big (fingers are fat and thick due to many years on gh and gear but thats bout it...we all have same look of the hands after few years on gh on/off..take a look at priest hands..you will see what i mean) but the murderer hands are not big by any means nor is his frame. he's an average 42 year old guy that was 220 pounds at the time of the murder and now is 195 pounds few months later.  5'8" person simply can't be big no matter how much he wants...he can be built he can be muscular he can be athletic he can be thick he can have large muscles but! he can't be big!!6'5 280 is big! learn the diff!
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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2006, 05:11:14 AM »
The weeping routine in the courtroom should dismantle any remnants of the myth that Craig is a tough guy.  Damn that's pathetic.

Boo Hoo Hoo Hoo "The other inmates are picking on me.  They want me to bend over and.....
You'd be cryin' too if you realized that you are facing the rest of your life in jail for the stupidity of your actions.

How did Craig ruin Kelly's life? She was an adult when she met Craig and has to take responsibility for her actions. No sympathy for being complicit in a murder.
Lee

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2006, 06:53:15 AM »
When "One" comes to the realization of their actions, and find that perhaps the actions were not worth the end result. 3 lives wasted, for what ??? ???
I am sure they both wish that they could change what happened, at least I would hope so.

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2006, 06:56:22 AM »
The weeping routine in the courtroom should dismantle any remnants of the myth that Craig is a tough guy.  Damn that's pathetic.

Boo Hoo Hoo Hoo "The other inmates are picking on me.  They want me to bend over and.....

Tough guys cry too >:(

shockandawe

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2006, 11:17:17 AM »
Oh good God in heaven above..... is all I have to say.

This is just immeasurably sad on all accounts. Of course it's sad that Kelly's life is ruined, but I have to say, there wasn't a person who cared about her back in 1999 who told her anything different than what was in store for her. I was one of them and was a great friend at the time. But you can't tell people, can you? If they want to touch the flame, they'll do it, whether you tell them they'll get scorched or not. And knowing them both as well as I did, I was fairly well qualified to say. But how can you tell your girlfriend that her own insecurities are baiting her and leading her down the wrong path, without ending a friendship? Well, that's exactly what happened. That's all a person can do.

Playing with fire, as they say, is both allegory and outcome for Kelly, it seems. (Yes, that pun was intentional and every bit appropriate)

And yes, Kelly WAS an adult, with all of the privileges of decision making that an adult has over her life. "Some people are just better decision makers" as Olympian Bode Miller said prior to his run on the icy Italian downhill track. Some, as it seems, are not. So, too, is this a case of poor decision making... and perhaps a few years of being told you're shit without plastic surgery, sex with other women and couples, etc...thrown in for good measure. 

Always reasons, never excuses.  But how she ever came to believe that Craig was the ultimate measuring stick of her own desirability and worth, I'll never, ever, ever know. To this day, it's the saddest thing of all to a person who once called her "friend".

It's very sad that it takes something of this magnitude to realize, "Oh shit, I'm living my life in a way that might end in someone's undoing - mine or everyone around me." But that is the saga of
Craig Titus, and apparently of Kelly. I would never in a million years have guessed it back in the good days.

But regret wouldn't be regret if they weren't in the past tense. And nothing now can undo what has happened. Only remorse and acceptance.

Just my two cents...

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2006, 11:23:01 AM »
Riddle me this...... why do the majority of murders happen with an instrument rather than the bare hands.  Many men who have killed their wives, girlfriends, friends or others use many objects rather than their hands.  I would say it's for simplicity or assurance that the job will be done as quick as possible without leaving fingerprints or other physical evidence. 
Incapicatating Melissa so that she can't struggle and possbily leave scratch marks or other evidence is a great reason to use a stun gun.  Unless you have complete and utter 100% confidence in yourself to knock out or kill someone with a single blow then using something or anything to help you get the job done is only sensible.
If you're correct, that means premeditation, and then you run into problems with motive. One of the popular motive theories being kicked around is "she stole from them". Well, who kills someone for stealing from them if they've had time to think it through (which premeditation would seem to imply)? If they're dead, they can't pay you back. If you're a mafia don it might make sense to kill a debtor as a warning to others, but that would be moot in this case, since I'm sure Craig & Kelly didn't plan on telling anyone after the fact. So why do you kill someone that stole your money? You don't. You throw their ass out on the street, then file charges against them with the police.  ::)

Kelly killing her out of jealousy (if the "affair with Craig" thing is true) makes a lot more sense as a motive. That is a motive where premeditation makes sense, and the stun gun fits with a smaller person (kelly) commiting the crime.

Disclaimer: I'm just theorizing here... don't jump down my throat if you think I'm wrong.
Ron: "I am lazy."

Crusher

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2006, 01:21:38 PM »
Disclaimer: I'm just theorizing here... don't jump down my throat if you think I'm wrong.

I knew Craig for a long time - notice I didn't say "friends with him."  I ran into him nearly every day for a while, and I had contact with him right up until the second week of December.  Knowing the way he thinks; the duct tape, the tazer, the ligature, the burning, the truck change, the attempted oil change, etc., are all bits and pieces of what was swirling around in Craig's delusional meth infested brain.  It was all part of his seat of the pants gangster plan to have the crime look like he and/or Kelly didn't do it.  Craig is the master of "if I did.... then why would I ...." lying straight to your face kind of defence.  The facts are the facts in this case - slim as they are - and circumstantial evidence abounds that makes this look really bad for both of them. Sure Craig could have killed MJ with his bare hands - Kelly probably could have, but it would have been a bit more involved.  Could Craig and Kelly have strangled MJ together?  Of course.  The tazer is just part of Craig's poetic license in the matter.   No, dead people can't pay you back, but MJ was alleged to have stolen Kelly's identity.  And, she was a meth head.  The likelihood of MJ ever paying them back if they just threw her out - unlikely.  Snuffing out the bitch that fucked with them, out smarting the cops and getting away with it - priceless (if you're Craig Titus).

No one is really ever going to know what happened.  The cops think Craig did it.  Kelly's added charge of kidnapping and murder were done in order for the cops to have something to bargain with - to get Kelly to roll over on Craig.  She'll plead to second degree manslaughter and be out in less than 10.  Craig will get life, probably the death penalty.

onlyme

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2006, 01:38:29 PM »
Not knowing Craig personally only met him once, I am going by what I read and hear.  From what I see is he has thrown sex parties and other functions where he and/or Kelly are having open sex with different partners.  Am I wrong?  If so then why would Kelly get mad over Craig fucking with Mellissa now.  What's the big deal?  He has done it in the past.  So she is used to it definitely enough not t get so pissed where she kills someone.  And about the money, just how much did she or cold she have stolen.  I highly doubt the had access to anywhere near $100,000 or more.  So anything less than that is nothing.  Hell I am owed more than that by numerous people.  I wrote it off.  I get pissed when I think about it and want to beat the shit out of them if I ever see them but losing money no matter how much is not worth killing over.

I do think that both of them ifnot all three were on drugs at the time.  So I do think that messes up themind enough to do things you probably wouldn't do otherwise. 

ANd Goat I'm not jumping down your throat. Just putting in my rebuttle.  WHo knows one of us may be right.

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2006, 06:29:10 PM »
  Snuffing out the bitch that fucked with them, out smarting the cops and getting away with it - priceless (if you're Craig Titus).

[/quote]
We (the wife and I) have been lurking on the board ever since we got a call about the news. Having no intention to post, we were solely here only to gather any additional info on the subject to help fill in the blanks from other sources we have talked to. There have been numerous comments but this one above is by far the most accurate about his way of thinking. Those that have much contact with him I`m sure would agree as well.

"Life in the Fastlane"

buffalo

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2006, 07:26:41 PM »
I think Craig had feelings for Melissa more than just the usual "sex party" bullshit.  Kelly saw that Craig wanted Melissa around all the time which is a hell of alot different than just having some skank come over for sex and then leave (not that I recommend THAT either)

But who knows WHAT really happened except that maybe things got out of hand and Kelly & Melissa got into a fight..Craig tried to break it up...but then Melissa started making threats against the both of them, Craig got pissed or nuts (meth heads get that way)..he grabbed the handy stun gun lying there next to the bed...don't ask......

Stunned her...shot her up with morphine to make it LOOK like an overdose...she came too...stunned her again.....then decided to get it over with and strangle her.....had to get rid of the body......

were either Craig or Kelly examined for any physical marks on their persons that would show recent signs of any kind of physical struggle etc??  Just curious

Crusher

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2006, 10:00:34 PM »
Dice it and slice it anyway you want - there are hundreds of plausible scenarios - the bottom line is the cold hard surreal truth.  And it's not easy for any of us to swallow - especially those of us who knew them.  Craig always seemed intent on being a bad ass – or at least trying to convince everyone he was.  Being known as such was very important to him. His whole demeanor - all the time – was always on the wrong side of the tracks trying to fill shoes that just didn’t fit.  He filled his life with all the bad boy essence – muscles, tattoos, drug dealing, drug pushing, lying, stealing, going to prison getting into fights, mouthing off, throwing his parties, trolling the tittie bars with his wife as bait and getting her to submit to his whim, etc.  We’re not talking a Harvard graduate here either.  Limited intellect focused on, and under the influence of, the bad things in life.  Killing someone?  If you can get away with it, and they deserve it, why not?  
Everyone else has put in their opinion as to what happened, here’s mine: In a cloud of meth smoke Craig found out the babe he was banging on the side/ or on the side and with Kelly, was stealing his wife’s identity.  Maybe in MJ’s delusional meth clouded brain she was in love with Craig and had her own plan to get rid of Kelly, assume her identity, and move in.  Maybe she told Craig.  Then suddenly, MJ moved from the tap on the side to the threat in front of him/Kelly.  Craig – a bad ass of limited intellect high on meth - does what any loathsome manipulating bad ass would do in the name of chivalry.
The resulting tangled mess of bad ideas, stupid decisions, suspicious behavior, deplorable actions, and crazy schemes to cover it up are not indicative of the behavior of sane, sober, honest, innocent people.  No one can trace Craig and Kelly’s footsteps from the night of December 14th until Kelly’s insane arrest in a nail salon all the way across the country a week later and not see it for what it is.  Including a jury.
The truly sad thing is that without Craig, Kelly would never in a million years find herself now lying alone in a cell trying to figure out what the hell happened to her life, her face, her career, her morals, her judgment, and her future.  They’re all wrecked.  
Her saving grace will be the prosecutor’s offer of a plea deal to roll on Craig.  She won’t want to do it at first – Craig said “don’t say anything.” But this time, the words of her family – her father – will be those she listens to eventually, and Craig will get what he’s always wanted – to be labeled a bad ass.  ….Until he gets to prison.  Where he will run into a real bad ass – or two, or ten, or 50…..
Kelly will probably get out of prison before she’s 45.  Provided she’s had enough therapy to understand why she had such low selfesteem when she was in her 30s, she'd still be young enough to go on and maybe live out some kind of meaningful life.

stuntmovie

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2006, 10:16:21 PM »
Well stated, Crusher.

I'll go along with you line of thinking with minor modifications ......

For some reason, I believe that Kelly is more involved in the physical act of killing Melissa than Craig himself was.

Nothing substantial to base that on but it's a thought I can't get rid of.

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2006, 10:59:14 PM »
regardless of the past....

they're both clean now.  things are clear now.

everytime they see each other, it could very well be the last.

they're going through hell right now.



Crusher

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2006, 04:35:16 AM »
Well stated, Crusher.
I'll go along with you line of thinking with minor modifications ......
For some reason, I believe that Kelly is more involved in the physical act of killing Melissa than Craig himself was.
Nothing substantial to base that on but it's a thought I can't get rid of.

A lot of you feel that way about Kelly.  If you knew her, you just can't imagine she would go that far.  But, in a drugged stupor, I guess anything is possible.  The cops still think Craig is culpable.  He was the ring leader and he surrounded himself with people he could manipulate - Gross and Kelly.  There are only three people who really know what happened that night and one of them is dead.....  so far.  We'll see.

buffalo

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2006, 07:06:14 AM »
Well said both SHOCKANDAWE & CRUSHER

I think those of us who knew Kelly and Craig can't let ourselves believe that Kelly had anything to do with the actual murder. 

WITHOUT CRAIG DARKENING KELLY'S DOOR, she would NEVER be where she is at today

Childish///AMG

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2006, 07:13:42 AM »
Very "True" comments from above. My mother use to say, "Lay down with dogs, and you will get-up with fleas." Bad association spoils useful habits.
Strange how her words are ringing in my ears now

shockandawe

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2006, 10:23:11 AM »
I kind of feel badly stating this, almost as if I'm giving up a confidence that was given to me some 6 years ago...

But, I have to say, this scenario, minus the actual harming/ murder of a human being, was not a new one to Kelly...  A much lighter version of the same, happened to her in the mid-late 90's prior to Craig - 2 boyfriends removed.

She was once involved with a thugish nobody from the gym - just prior to when I met her - probably around 97 or 98, before she turned pro and was a well known entity.  He, too, was a fairly isolative, abusive, emotionally unavailable fellow, with whom she did too much blow. By her own admission, she had had a somewhat sticky time getting away from it, and him.  In fact, after that, she really shied from situations where blow was, because she was afraid of the power it had over her in that situation. 

She went clean for awhile, and seemed to come out of that minor skirmish intact.  We all make those kinds of bad choices at least once in life, so, no harm no foul. It was to her credit that she extricated herself finally and got on a better track.

But...
I think this drug "hook" was looming all along for her.. Something in her self-esteem always sought the unseekable, always sought acceptance from the unacceptable, and something in her chemical make-up was attracted to the unfinished business I just described.

"Cunning, baffling and powerful" - that is the AA, NA and all the other "anons" way to describe the lure, addiction, and self-destructive powers of drugs  -  I'd say this is the pinnacle of that and more.  And by the way, I say this not as a saint myself - far from it! I say it because I know both sides of the coin... I know that if it were easy for her to refuse Craig, drugs, that life, etc.., she surely would have done it. But it wasn't easy for her, and she didn't get out in time. That happens on occasion, and consequences of varying degree loom.

As much as I know that she is a big girl, and must face the music, my heart really still very much breaks for her and the course her life has taken. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and certainly not on someone with whom I once had a fun friendship.

But do I feel as some of you, that Kelly couldn't have possibly done this?

Well, I actually do believe that she could have, and think it's a likely scenario. In fact, saying that "embezzlement" was the motive is much weaker than choosing "jealousy"... but I think the prosecution believes that it's unlikely a jury will believe that a "dyed-in-the-wool swinger" would be susceptible to jealousy.  (Ironically, however, there's always one person in every swinging couple who doesn't want to be doing it, and holds back a rage right below the surface of the skin, that is nothing short of mighty).

Anyway, my belief that she is capable and that it's likely it was here, isn't to crucify her, but only to say that I do believe she had some very dark, unfinished business -stuff she didn't show to most people - and chose every day to cultivate her growing rage by living with someone who gave her reason to hang on to it, and nurture, it until it exploded.  Loving and loathing every minute.

Do I believe she would be in a jail cell had she hooked up with any other person? Probably not. These were extraordinary circumstances. But, I do think that she would have continued to repeat some of this stuff over and over again - as we humans do - until she got it right. Only thing is... "it" got her first.  That is always the worst possible outcome.

But then again, maybe it's the only outcome that would have gotten her attention. You never know... Only she and the God she prays to - (and if she doesn't yet, she surely will) - knows for sure.

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2006, 10:29:23 AM »
Thanks for your thoughts shockandawe, your posts have been insightful.
pain day

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2006, 10:31:51 AM »
Thanks for a very insightful post, shockandawe.
That's tragic for KR and a billion times worse for Melissa James and her family & friends.  What horrible things drug use and low self-esteem can do to people.

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2006, 12:49:16 PM »
Interesting Shockandawe.

The only caveat to my supposition is the jealousy angle.  I didn’t put it out there because I knew Craig much longer and better than Kelly.  However, your post was insightful.  Craig told me many, many times in discussing their alternative attitude toward marriage that it was Kelly who would sometimes instigate the use of certain drugs, or suggest it was time for another playmate, or initiate contact with another couple. If Kelly truly was an unwitting participant in certain aspects of their lifestyle, then why would she allow MJ to live with them?  The “personal assistant” job description had to have been broad in its scope.  So, if Craig actually had been hitting MJ on the side – behind Kelly’s back – I think Kelly’s rage would have been pretty intense as Shockandawe suggests.  I’m sure CT & KR had boundaries with respect to their sexual involvement with MJ.  If CT abrogated that trust and went behind Kelly’s back (which I believe he would), I could see it getting pretty disturbing.  Probably more so than him just having an affair with a stranger who had no intimate involvement with Kelly.

Kelly finding out MJ was fucking Craig and stealing her identity, could have perhaps – in a meth cloud epiphany – made her think MJ and/or CT might have been out to get rid of her (kill her) and Kelly, perhaps fearing for her own life, confronted MJ at the house on the afternoon of the 14th when Craig wasn’t home.  He may have returned later to find MJ dead.

If that was the case, a sane, sober, well intending human being would have called 911 – not orchestrated a barbeque in the dessert.

Anyway you cut it, it’s still Craig’s character that did them in.

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2006, 04:46:23 PM »
Of course you're assuming that it was Craig and not Kelly that did the killing.
Riddle me this.... why the hell would a guy as big as Craig need a stun gun? He could kill or incapicate her with his bare hands.
Bertil Fox and Paul Demayo both went to prison for gun crime. All of the victims were females as I recall.

Acerimmer1

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2006, 05:05:50 PM »
the murderer is not a big guy he's 5'8 with average frame. his hands are not big (fingers are fat and thick due to many years on gh and gear but thats bout it...we all have same look of the hands after few years on gh on/off..take a look at priest hands..you will see what i mean) but the murderer hands are not big by any means nor is his frame. he's an average 42 year old guy that was 220 pounds at the time of the murder and now is 195 pounds few months later.  5'8" person simply can't be big no matter how much he wants...he can be built he can be muscular he can be athletic he can be thick he can have large muscles but! he can't be big!!6'5 280 is big! learn the diff!

We are talking about a streetfight here not a basketball game  ;) But I'm willing to consider the possability Melissa could've kicked some Titus butt anyhow. Maybe she did martial arts.

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Re: Cryin Craig Titus....ruins the life of Flyin Kelly Ryan!!!
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2006, 07:13:44 PM »
Taser gun: $350
Lighter Fluid: $19
Duct Tape: $2.50
Jaguar: $45,000
Properly disposing of a body by burrying it in a deep hole rather than stupidly trying to burn it in your own car:   Priceless!
Ha hahahaha ha ha ha....  good one Goat! You can tell I've been watching too much TV. ;)