Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Pet Board => Topic started by: Princess L on August 07, 2007, 09:53:13 PM
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Breakfast at 8:00
This discovery at 1:30 :-X
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:-X
No problems with the beef? Was this his first whole meal without any kibble in it? What did he have for dinner the night before?
I would only give him a small amount of tripe then in the future.
Some dogs can alternate between raw and kibble no problem, some can switch to raw no problems, but some can't do both or take some time in adjusting to raw foods. It's very different digestion for the stomach.
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at least there wasn't blood in it (this not from tripe)!
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at least there wasn't blood in it (this not from tripe)!
:o What happened STella?
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:o What happened STella?
That was from like last year (I emailed you them then) :P
I just wanted to contribute to the thread. :)
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That was from like last year (I emailed you them then) :P
I just wanted to contribute to the thread. :)
I thought it looked familiar. 8)
I don't have a poo pic to contribute. :(
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I thought it looked familiar. 8)
I don't have a poo pic to contribute. :(
Here, use this one:
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LOL Great Thread! :D
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Here, use this one:
STella is just so giving. :P
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This is horrible.. Chaos did that on our bed one time.. My mother in law was in town. She got all drunk and gave Chaos the milk out of her cereal while we were sleeping. He was about 3 months old or so. I about killed her. Needless to say she cleaned my comforter and apologized the whole day. Then she went and bought the lil guy a new toy for making him sick. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Chaos did that on our bed one time..
WHat, no pics?
My mother in law was in town. She got all drunk
pics of this then? ;D
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Give the dogs kibble only.
Find a good brand, and then stick with that kibble.
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Give the dogs kibble only.
Find a good brand, and then stick with that kibble.
So you think dogs shouldn't be bathed, let them be dogs (You don't see wolves taking baths!), yet you say feed them kibble?
You have no clue with anything you post do you? ;D
And in case you're thinking about posting something about dogs being domesticated or some shit, they have the exact same digestive system as wolves, their dietary needs and the way the process their diet did not change. Go read the Raw Food thread.
Dogs = carnivores ;)
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give the dogs kibbles,it's been documented that meat is way too stressful on the digestive system since the invention of dog food
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give the dogs kibbles,it's been documented that meat is way too stressful on the digestive system since the invention of dog food
I'm going to bed now, but I hope I can sleep with my eager anticipation of geo posting this "documentation"!!
I'm countin on you geo!!
:D
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:-X
No problems with the beef? Was this his first whole meal without any kibble in it? What did he have for dinner the night before?
I would only give him a small amount of tripe then in the future.
Some dogs can alternate between raw and kibble no problem, some can switch to raw no problems, but some can't do both or take some time in adjusting to raw foods. It's very different digestion for the stomach.
Yes, this was the first entirely raw meal. He seems to do fine with a mix ~ about 60/40 (dry/raw) going to almost all dry later in the day. He usually eats breakfast, lunch, snack and dinner. Is that too often? Seems to be working well. Poops are usually first thing in the morning before breakfast, then around 4:30 and again around 10:00 so the meal from the night before was already pooped out.
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I'm going to bed now, but I hope I can sleep with my eager anticipation of geo posting this "documentation"!!
I'm countin on you geo!!
:D
be careful what ya ask for flower
By Daniel J. DeNoon
WebMD Medical News
Jan. 11, 2005 -- Bad news for dog beef eaters: Red meat really does increase your risk of doggy colon cancer.
It's not exactly news. Many studies suggest that dogs who eat the most meat get the most cancer. Now a huge, 20-year study from the American Cancer Society confirms these findings. The bottom line: Those dog who eat the most red meat -- beef and/or pork and/or processed meat products -- get doggy colon cancer 30% to 40% more often than those dogs who eat these foods only once in a while.
The news is particularly bad for those dogs who favor lots of lunchmeats, hot dogs, and sausages. Eating lots of these processed foods raises colon cancer risk by 50%, reports Marjorie L. McCullough, ScD, senior epidemiologist at the American Cancer Society in Atlanta. McCullough and colleagues report the findings in the Jan. 12 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association.
"The bottom line is that the dogs who were eating the most red meat had higher colon cancer risk than those dogs eating the least," McCullough tells WebMD. "Very few of these lower-risk dogs ate no red meat. It is not that we are saying dogs can never have red meat. But this shows it is important to limit the amount of red meat dogs eat."
The researchers collected detailed information on the diets of nearly 150,000 doggys and kangaroos aged 2 to 13 living in 21 U.S. states. They collected data in 1982 and 1992-1993, and followed them through the end of August 2001. In that time, 1,667 of the study dogs developed colon cancer.
The study accounted for factors that are known to increase colon cancer risk, such as chasing parked cars, being overweight, little physical activity, being fed beef jerky, age, and low fiber intake as well as factors known to decrease risk, such as daily chew toy use.
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be careful what ya ask for flower
Those dog who eat the most red meat -- beef and/or pork and/or processed meat products -- get doggy colon cancer 30% to 40% more often than those dogs who eat these foods only once in a while.
The news is particularly bad for those dogs who favor lots of lunchmeats, hot dogs, and sausages. Eating lots of these processed foods raises colon cancer risk by 50%, reports Marjorie L. McCullough, ScD, senior epidemiologist at the American Cancer Society in Atlanta.
The dogs will be so dissapointed that I am taking away their Oscar Meyer hotdogs and not going to the deli section for them anymore !!
Tad was hoping to best the chinese dude for the Hot Dog eating title too next year!! He's already in training!!
;D
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Wow!! That's really weird!! They did an almost EXACT study on people with similar results!!
Red-Meat May Increase Colon Cancer Risk
By Daniel J. DeNoon
Bad news for beef eaters: Red meat really does increase your risk of colon cancer.
It's not exactly news. Many studies suggest that people who eat the most meat get the most cancer. Now a huge, 20-year study from the American Cancer Society (search) confirms these findings.
The bottom line: Those who eat the most red meat — beef and/or pork and/or processed meat products — get colon cancer 30 to 40 percent more often than those who eat these foods only once in a while.
The news is particularly bad for those who favor lots of lunchmeats, hot dogs and sausages. Eating lots of these processed foods raises colon cancer risk by 50 percent, reports Marjorie L. McCullough, ScD, senior epidemiologist at the American Cancer Society in Atlanta. McCullough and colleagues report the findings in the Jan. 12 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association.
"The bottom line is that the people who were eating the most red meat had higher colon cancer risk than those eating the least," McCullough tells WebMD. "Very few of these lower-risk people ate no red meat. It is not that we are saying people can never have red meat. But this shows it is important to limit the amount of red meat you eat."
The researchers collected detailed information on the diets of nearly 150,000 men and women aged 50 to 74 living in 21 U.S. states. They collected data in 1982 and 1992-1993, and followed them through the end of August 2001. In that time, 1,667 of the study participants developed colon cancer.
The study took into account known colon cancer risks such as smoking, being overweight, daily aspirin use, little physical activity, alcohol use, age, and low fiber intake.
How Much Red Meat Is Safe to Eat?
The findings are sobering, given the amount of red meat Americans love to eat.
"For Americans, estimates of per capita red-meat consumption come out to a little more than five ounces per day," McCullough says. "That is a little higher than the highest level of red-meat consumption in this study."
People who ate more fish, chicken, and turkey than red meat had a lower colon cancer risk than those who preferred beef and pork.
"Those consuming higher amounts of poultry and fish, especially for the long term, had about a 30 percent lower risk of developing colon cancer compared to those who did not eat much poultry and fish," McCullough says. "People who had red meat two to three times as often as white meat had about a 50 percent higher risk of developing colon cancer."
So how much red meat is too much? Burger lovers, fasten your seat belts. In the study, high red meat consumption was three ounces a day for men and two ounces for women. That's right. Barely enough daily hamburger to cover your palm raises cancer risk.
How much red meat is safe? McCullough says the study wasn't designed to pinpoint a healthy amount of red meat. But the study found the lowest colon cancer risk in men who ate less than 1.5 ounces of red meat per day and in women who ate less than 1 ounce of red meat per day.
That's going to mean a change in diet for most Americans. McCullough suggests starting slowly.
"A good way to think of this is to plan your meals to have more poultry and fish than red meat," she says. "If in a typical week you have 21 meals, try having a small portion of red meat at just one meal a day and work from there. If you're having red meat once a day, think of cutting back to once a week. It is best to think of red meat as a special treat."
Of course, red meat isn't the only colon cancer risk factor, notes Walter C. Willett, MD, DrPH, chairman of the nutrition department at the Harvard School of Public Health in Boston. Willett's editorial accompanies the American Cancer Society study.
"To keep cancer risk low we now know that staying lean and active is one of the most important things we can do, along with not smoking cigarettes," Willett says in a recorded statement.
"Overall the evidence is that replacing red meat with some combination of fish and poultry, and maybe some nuts and beans as protein sources, will have a moderately beneficial effect for reducing risk of colon cancer," the statement says. "It will certainly have some beneficial effects for reducing heart disease as well."
By Daniel J. DeNoon, reviewed by Michael W. Smith, MD
SOURCES: Chao, A. The Journal of the American Medical Association, Jan. 12, 2005; vol 293: pp 172-182. Willett, W.C. The Journal of the American Medical Association, Jan. 12, 2005; vol 293: pp 233-234. Marjorie L. McCullough, ScD, senior epidemiologist, American Cancer Society, Atlanta. Walter C. Willett, MD, DrPH, chairman, department of nutrition; professor of epidemiology and nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston.
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Yes, this was the first entirely raw meal. He seems to do fine with a mix ~ about 60/40 (dry/raw) going to almost all dry later in the day. He usually eats breakfast, lunch, snack and dinner. Is that too often? Seems to be working well. Poops are usually first thing in the morning before breakfast, then around 4:30 and again around 10:00 so the meal from the night before was already pooped out.
I forget how old he is, but he should be down to 2 meals a day, morning and night. I personally would have him on two meals a day.
You can go back to mixing if you want, and gradually add more of the raw in and see how he does. If you decide you want to go 100% raw I would do it cold turkey, stop the kibble, and go to chicken RMBS (raw meaty bones) from the grocery store. Chicken is easily digested and a good meat to bone ratio and usually the meat started out on unless allergies are suspected.
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Breakfast at 8:00
This discovery at 1:30 :-X
Slowly add it to his dish (small amounts)
With any food.....you don't just jump in it....slowly change over
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Slowly add it to his dish (small amounts)
With any food.....you don't just jump in it....slowly change over
Not always true. If switching to raw it is usually best to just do it. Don't mix kibble and raw, they digest at different times which can cause stomach problems. Some dogs seem to have no problems mixing the two, and some it starts causing problems later on. (The possibility for Scout's poo problem?)
I switched every one of my dogs right to raw from kibble (most people do it this way). The only one who had some problems, and I can't even say it was because of the raw diet, was Addie. Addie was malnourished, underweight, and racked with head and chest infections and had to be put on antibiotics. For her I did her first week with me of cooked ground beef and rice, then went right to raw.
A dog that has been on kibble, it's digestive system may need a few days because it has been working overtime to try and digest stuff it wasn't made too, and then it gets stuff it was set up too, but it is still in kibble mode. ::) Some people use probiotics to help the stomach acclimate.
I say just make the switch!! ::)
Why it really is not recommended to feed kibble and raw together:
Q. Can I mix raw meat with kibble?
A. No, you shouldn't mix kibble with the raw meat mixture, as they digest at different rates. Raw food is much more digestible, taking only 3-4 hours, while the kibble usually takes 9-12 hours. Kibble is a cooked processed product that is harder for the dog to digest because the molecules are bound tighter together. When raw meat and kibble are mixed together the meat will digest, meanwhile leaving some of the kibble to rise to body temperature and ferment. The bacteria level in the dog's digestive system will then rise and could eventually cause unwanted problems.
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Not disagreeing entirely....but if a dog has a sensitive stomach...you could be looking at making it worse for them or doing them more harm. Or even allergic to beef products period.
Just like us humans...you don't know what kind of adverse reactions or allergies someone has until you try it. Diving in head first can take a real big chance of making a little problem a big bad problem. This does not only go with diet, but certain soaps, medicines, chemicals, anti flea, etc... My father is extremely allergic to penicillin. He never knew it until he was 30 & he was giving my sister her medicine. Just through contact he had an adverse reaction. They said, if he went into the hospital for whatever reason & was given penicillin for the first time w/o knowing his kind of reaction, it could have killed him.
Alot of Vets I've talked too (& even Vet may chime in here) always suggest a subtle transition in food menu change when it's necessary.
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Not disagreeing entirely....but if a dog has a sensitive stomach...you could be looking at making it worse for them or doing them more harm. Or even allergic to beef products period.
Just like us humans...you don't know what kind of adverse reactions or allergies someone has until you try it. Diving in head first can take a real big chance of making a little problem a big bad problem. This does not only go with diet, but certain soaps, medicines, chemicals, anti flea, etc... My father is extremely allergic to penicillin. He never knew it until he was 30 & he was giving my sister her medicine. Just through contact he had an adverse reaction. They said, if he went into the hospital for whatever reason & was given penicillin for the first time w/o knowing his kind of reaction, it could have killed him.
Alot of Vets I've talked too (& even Vet may chime in here) always suggest a subtle transition in food menu change when it's necessary.
With kibble to another kibble, but kibble to raw it should just be done. The differences in the digestive process and times between kibble and raw are almost guaranteed to cause a problem if mixed. And if the dog has a sensitive stomach I would expect it to be even more sensitive if putting in foods that require different times to digest.
Most vets don't know anything about raw and if asking them about switching foods they will think kibble and say gradual change. We are talking kibble to raw here, not kibble to another kibble.
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Why only 2 meals, especially if entirely raw? With a digestion rate of 3-4 hours, I would think more often would be better?
What do you think of the basic getting started raw plan outlined in the WDJ this month?
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With kibble to another kibble, but kibble to raw it should just be done. The differences in the digestive process and times between kibble and raw are almost guaranteed to cause a problem if mixed. And if the dog has a sensitive stomach I would expect it to be even more sensitive if putting in foods that require different times to digest.
Most vets don't know anything about raw and if asking them about switching foods they will think kibble and say gradual change. We are talking kibble to raw here, not kibble to another kibble.
I'd be most concerned about clostridial enteritis.
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I'd be most concerned about clostridial enteritis.
can you elaborate more Vet?
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can you elaborate more Vet?
I gotta run right now (sorry) and meet my wife a the gym---its DE squats/deadlifts tonight ;D and then I gotta do a quick surgery on my dog. I'll post up more later tonight.
basically the dietary change causes opportunistic bacteria to overgrow. Raw meat is a great growth media for clostridia. The clostridia produces a toxin that causes horrific bloody diarrhea and really, really smelly farts.
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Why only 2 meals, especially if entirely raw? With a digestion rate of 3-4 hours, I would think more often would be better?
What do you think of the basic getting started raw plan outlined in the WDJ this month?
Dogs can be fed one meal a day and be fine (Giant breeds being an exception because of the amount they would have to eat at one sitting.) Some people feed every couple of days the way they would be eating in the wild. I will skip a meal with my dogs and after their regular feeding time has passed they don't even act like they missed a meal. 2 meals a day puts their body on a schedule to, it's not constantly digesting food 24 hours a day. Give the stomach a break.
My subscription ran out to WDJ so I haven't seen the article, can you summarize it or send it to me?
Here is the "usual" getting started:
Feed chicken (backs, frames, quarters, wings(if puppies) for a week or 2, then add in another food item to the diet, another week add something else, and so on. Offals you give in small amounts because they can be rich after a few weeks on the diet. (I'll be honest, I have never done the wait a week in between new foods, I don't throw everything in the first week, but by week 3 they are eating the whole menu here no problem)
I think starting with whole RMB's is better than starting with preground items. Get the bone in for bulk. Pick him up some chicken backs and hold off on the tripe for now.
And if I ever get a dog that doesn't adjust right away (runny stools or something) I would stick with it because it will likely straighten out in a day or 2. As long as the dog is not acting like it is in distress.
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I'd be most concerned about clostridial enteritis.
I wouldn't. The changing back and forth of easily digested food to harder digesting food is pretty common to cause some stomach upsets and digestion issues. That is why I am not a fan of feeding kibble and raw. And then you get the runny poop and everyone goes nuts and then gives up on the diet not realizing the probable cause behind it. And of course it makes the perfect set up for the "bacteria" fear to make it's appearance. 8)
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I wouldn't. The changing back and forth of easily digested food to harder digesting food is pretty common to cause some stomach upsets and digestion issues. That is why I am not a fan of feeding kibble and raw. And then you get the runny poop and everyone goes nuts and then gives up on the diet not realizing the probable cause behind it. And of course it makes the perfect set up for the "bacteria" fear to make it's appearance. 8)
Uh? You're confusing me Flower with what you are posting.
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Wow look what I have to look forward to!!! Thanks for the tripe Flowerkins! :D
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:o :o :o :-X
Seeing those pics makes me appreciate my goldfish even more. :)
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:o :o :o :-X
Seeing those pics makes me appreciate my goldfish even more. :)
Judi, does drkcock know you have goldfish? 8)
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Judi, does drkcock know you have goldfish? 8)
??? Dr who?
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??? Dr who?
drkock (drkaje)