Author Topic: Noahs Ark Found  (Read 63126 times)

FREAKgeek

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #125 on: April 28, 2010, 08:09:58 AM »
D'oh. Well, I still hope that somewhere, somehow someone can turn water into wine. I have to believe in that one.  

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Oldschool Flip

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #126 on: April 28, 2010, 08:10:27 AM »
You make two rather strange assumptions:

One, that the Earth's geographical makeup then is exactly as it is now.
Taking today's actual science into consideration, plate movement is causing San Diego to move up to San Francisco at about a rate of 3-6 inches per year. Now unless Australia somehow broke off at break neck speed and settled in less than 6,000-10,000 years (which many christian "scientists" agree how old the Earth is), then Australia would only be about 3,000-5,000 ft from Mt. Ararat. Yeah, that sounds about right. ::).

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Two, that the Flood was cause solely by rainfall, which is clearly not the case, according to Scripture.
Wait, if it rained 40 days and 40 nights in ANY PART of the world, wouldn't that area flood? Just a week's worth of rain in any area causes flooding. But of course scripture gets deciphered a little more differently when science actually proves that what was stated is wrong. ::)

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #127 on: April 28, 2010, 08:14:34 AM »
People already accept the "Noah story" and, as stated earlier, various cultures worldwide cite a global Flood.





If there was a global flood then where did all the water go to allow the land to resurface? How did Noah manage to feed these animals?  What about the carnivores vs. herbivores?  Don't you think the lion and or tigers would have eaten half of the animals?  Also if for example two dogs were saved.  How did you end up with all sorts of breeds in such a short amount of time?  I don't see how two labs could make a chihuaha.

Oldschool Flip

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #128 on: April 28, 2010, 08:15:43 AM »
People already accept the "Noah story" and, as stated earlier, various cultures worldwide cite a global Flood.




Correction: Many cultures have their own flood stories. Which makes the bible story unreliable because if other cultures wrote about them that had no ties to the middle east at the time, Aztecs for example, there were people alive besides noah and his clan.

MCWAY

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #129 on: April 28, 2010, 08:16:56 AM »
Taking today's actual science into consideration, plate movement is causing San Diego to move up to San Francisco at about a rate of 3-6 inches per year. Now unless Australia somehow broke off at break neck speed and settled in less than 6,000-10,000 years (which many christian "scientists" agree how old the Earth is), then Australia would only be about 3,000-5,000 ft from Mt. Ararat. Yeah, that sounds about right. ::).

Keywords: "Today's actual science". You are making the gigantic assumption that this rate has been maintained constantly, for millienia on end, without major fluxuation.


Wait, if it rained 40 days and 40 nights in ANY PART of the world, wouldn't that area flood? Just a week's worth of rain in any area causes flooding. But of course scripture gets deciphered a little more differently when science actually proves that what was stated is wrong. ::)

What are you talking about? Scripture never suggests, as you have, that the Flood was due solely to rainfall. So, your claim of how Scripture gets deciphered is a wee bit hollow.

YngiweRhoads

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #130 on: April 28, 2010, 08:17:42 AM »
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/04/27/2280442.aspx

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Is there any evidence of a catastrophic flood that rose to near the top of Ararat 4,800 years ago?

"We know what's going on with Turkey archaeologically at that time, and there's no major interruption in the culture," Zimansky observed.

"There's not enough H2O in the world to get an ark that high up a mountain," Kuniholm said.

Kuniholm has had to deal with repeated claims from ark-hunters, including claims based on purported discoveries of ancient wood, and it sounds as if he's starting to get sick of it. He expects the latest report will end up in his thick file of ark discoveries that end up going nowhere.

"These guys have already gotten the answer worked out ahead of time," he said, "and then they go out to prove it."

Theist scientific method = We know the conclusion, now let's make the data fit.
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YngiweRhoads

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #131 on: April 28, 2010, 08:21:28 AM »
You are making the gigantic assumption that this rate has been maintained constantly, for millienia on end, without major fluxuation.

You = the majority of the scientific community

Glad you're here to correct them with zero evidence.
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lovemonkey

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #132 on: April 28, 2010, 08:21:34 AM »
If there was a global flood then where did all the water go to allow the land to resurface? How did Noah manage to feed these animals?  What about the carnivores vs. herbivores?  Don't you think the lion and or tigers would have eaten half of the animals?  Also if for example two dogs were saved.  How did you end up with all sorts of breeds in such a short amount of time?  I don't see how two labs could make a chihuaha.

No, no no you don't get it. MCWAY is a >christian<. Logic doesn't apply at all here.
from incomplete data

MCWAY

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #133 on: April 28, 2010, 08:22:04 AM »
Correction: Many cultures have their own flood stories. Which makes the bible story unreliable because if other cultures wrote about them that had no ties to the middle east at the time, Aztecs for example, there were people alive besides noah and his clan.

Again, as noted by Roth and Peet (among others), the centralized theme is that, at a certain point in Earth's history, a global flood destroyed life on the planet, excluding a handful of survivors, who built a vessel and store themselves and animals on it.

The fact that this central theme exists WITHIN CULTURES with no ties to the Middle East is the point those men made, when citing their statements.


Tapeworm

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #134 on: April 28, 2010, 08:41:06 AM »
So is the Chinese story right or the christian story? Was Noah chinese?

I doubt the kanji MCWAY is talking about is derived from the literal meaning of its parts anyway, 8 mouths to feed in a vessel.  Almost none of the compound pictographs I've seen work that way.  Easy mnemonics like that are great when you're trying to memorize 2000 of the damn things (no, I did not) but their actual evolution invariably involves borrowed and associated meanings, bizarre syntheses, culturally unique ideas, as well as purely phonetic elements.  That's the Jap anyway.  I've heard the Chinese is worse.

Even if it's not Noah related, it seems to make good sense that 8 hungry guys would go out fishing in a boat so they could feed their faces, and maybe that's actually the case.  Symbols like this are everywhere tho and you think the origin is as plain as day.  Then you read the roundabout genealogy of this seemingly obvious picture and say fuck it it's 8 hungry guys gone fishing.

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #135 on: April 28, 2010, 08:46:21 AM »
If the Bible says the universe is 6,000 years old, how are we able to see galaxies billions of light years distant?

MMMmm, pretty sure it was the earth that was 6000 years old, not the universe.

MCWAY

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #136 on: April 28, 2010, 08:46:40 AM »
I doubt the kanji MCWAY is talking about is derived from the literal meaning of its parts anyway, 8 mouths to feed in a vessel.  Almost none of the compound pictographs I've seen work that way.  Easy mnemonics like that are great when you're trying to memorize 2000 of the damn things (no, I did not) but their actual evolution invariably involves borrowed and associated meanings, bizarre syntheses, culturally unique ideas, as well as purely phonetic elements.  That's the Jap anyway.  I've heard the Chinese is worse.

Even if it's not Noah related, it seems to make good sense that 8 hungry guys would go out fishing in a boat so they could feed their faces, and maybe that's actually the case.  Symbols like this are everywhere tho and you think the origin is as plain as day.  Then you read the roundabout genealogy of this seemingly obvious picture and say fuck it it's 8 hungry guys gone fishing.

Good point. But, when such appears in an Oriental account, regarding a global flood, which is awfully similar to a Hebrew account, involving 8 people and a global flood, I don't think you can easily mark that off as 8 guys going fishing.

MCWAY

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #137 on: April 28, 2010, 08:49:51 AM »
If the Bible says the universe is 6,000 years old, how are we able to see galaxies billions of light years distant?

The Bible gives no date for the age of the universe (or even the Earth). If I recall correctly, that "6,000" number came from a scholar who calculated the age of the planet by using Biblical geneaologies, starting (I think) from King Nebuchadnezzar and worked his way backwards.

AC Slater

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #138 on: April 28, 2010, 09:01:38 AM »
fuck off mcgay, christian f.aggot
I dont like twinks.

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #139 on: April 28, 2010, 09:03:16 AM »
fuck off mcgay, christian f.aggot

Great intelligent answer, bet you're a liberal as well?

CalvinH

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #140 on: April 28, 2010, 09:15:13 AM »
Jesus was quite the life of the party.



I could go with the whole water into wine thing.

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #141 on: April 28, 2010, 09:21:51 AM »
fuck off mcgay, christian f.aggot

Mr. Belding would have sent you to suspension for that post.

Oldschool Flip

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #142 on: April 28, 2010, 09:24:32 AM »
Keywords: "Today's actual science". You are making the gigantic assumption that this rate has been maintained constantly, for millienia on end, without major fluxuation.
Not an assumption, it's evidence that proves although the Earth is still changing and at such a slow rate that early written history, especially since biological and geological science wasn't really intergraded as a study during biblical times, made the assumption since it had no real reference point. How can you deny that the probability of Earth being much older than 10,000
is not plausible when past history has shown that in the likelihood it is? And if the fluxuation that you speak of happened, then where's the recorded documentation from the bible for it?
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What are you talking about? Scripture never suggests, as you have, that the Flood was due solely to rainfall. So, your claim of how Scripture gets deciphered is a wee bit hollow.
Um, according to the KING JAMES VERSION it does:

 4For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

 5And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.

 6And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.  ::)

Necrosis

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #143 on: April 28, 2010, 09:27:18 AM »
Good point. But, when such appears in an Oriental account, regarding a global flood, which is awfully similar to a Hebrew account, involving 8 people and a global flood, I don't think you can easily mark that off as 8 guys going fishing.

there is not enough water, the water cycle would be consistent with past times, ie wether frozen, precipatated or still there, the water amounts would be roughly the same. The rain would have to come from water on the surface, and so on.

Also, the carnivores would have to eat other animals, how did this work out?

how did he get other animals like others have posted?

you are avoiding the questions, this story is absolutely ridiculous, tremendously absurd beyond belief. The fact that he is cited as 900 years old is fucking retarded. Everyone if allowed to age beyond 100 would have parkison's and alzheimers, this man somehow avoided all disease and lived almost 900% longer then any recorded human with the worst medical care you could imagine.


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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #144 on: April 28, 2010, 09:28:11 AM »
Cristians are told a story and they beleive it, all this is based on their "faith".  There doesn't need to be any scientific evidence, basically just a few stories from different cultures about a huge flood, and some survivors to tell the tale = boom world wide flood, and Noah saved us all, no arguement can sway them, it's the truth.  To question is is to question their "faith" so they blindly defend it to the death as fact.  Don't blame or flame Marty, he has been brainwashed and is beyond reason.  I wonder if he was ever a Catholic altar boy?

Of course the logistics of an arc, getting the animals, etc etc is what most skeptics point to, but for me I gotta think that the world was a really small place back then, no books, maps, internetz, etc.  Perhaps Noah actually existed, and perhaps where Noah was there was a huge flood, perhaps he did build a boat and got some animals on it, he may have even got every animal that he thought existed at the time, maybe 50 pairs of animals cause he didn't know any better.  Without books, maps etc how was he to know there were millions of species of animals.  So he waited for the flood to end, he saved the world, or so he thought, and so it was written.  100 animals turned into two of every animal, 90 days turned into 900 years, a 100 square mile flood turned into a global flood.  I mean we know how much a story can change in a week, your buddie's 12" fish turns into Moby Dick after a couple beers, imagine what happens when someone writes a holy book hundreds / thousands of years after the fact......

Lets say this same thing happened a few other places, hence the folklore about the global flood.  How the hell did they know there was a global flood, do you think they had any idea on the size of earth, they only knew as far as they could walk or see.  Meanwhile, while he is floating on his boat with 100 animals that he thinks are the only animals in the world at the time, on the other side of the planet, in every other country that he didn't know existed, there was no flood, the natives in north america (or whereever) are hunting as if nothing is going on.

I don't know what the hell happened.  I do know that the churches fool their followers with "faith" to mindlessly control them get them to hand over their money so the church can buy land, and molest their children.

When you stop beleiving in fairty tales, imaginary men in the sky, fake books etc your world opens up, my hope is that people like Marty are able to come to this realization sooner then later so they can enjoy the rest of their lives, rather then being bound by a "faith" that restricts free thinking and rational thought.

Tapeworm

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #145 on: April 28, 2010, 09:29:22 AM »
Good point. But, when such appears in an Oriental account, regarding a global flood, which is awfully similar to a Hebrew account, involving 8 people and a global flood, I don't think you can easily mark that off as 8 guys going fishing.

Ya, but I'm not talking about floods or fishing.  Just saying that the derivation of kanji symbols in general can be deceptively involved and have little to do with the literal meaning of its parts, such as mouths, vehicles, thread, road, etc.  I'm not venturing an opinion on either side of the great flood debate.  I have no dog in this race.

Edit: I'm reminded of a statue in Japan of a famous dog named Hachi Ko (Eight Mouths).  He would go to the station and meet his master's train every day after work.  Well, Hachi Ko's owner died but the dog kept going to the station at the same time every single day to meet the train, and he did it without fail for something like 10 years.  Nothing to do with the thread but I always liked that story.

AC Slater

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #146 on: April 28, 2010, 09:49:31 AM »
Great intelligent answer, bet you're a liberal as well?

haha, no i hate liberals with a passion, even more than the christians.  i lean more right than left, but zealot christians who think they are intelligent really piss me off.
I dont like twinks.

Oldschool Flip

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #147 on: April 28, 2010, 09:58:15 AM »
there is not enough water, the water cycle would be consistent with past times, ie wether frozen, precipatated or still there, the water amounts would be roughly the same. The rain would have to come from water on the surface, and so on.
Unless god pissed on the world for forty days and nights!

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Also, the carnivores would have to eat other animals, how did this work out?
They ate soy diets for those forty days and nights.

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how did he get other animals like others have posted?
The animals miraculously commuted from other continents to join in.

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you are avoiding the questions, this story is absolutely ridiculous, tremendously absurd beyond belief. The fact that he is cited as 900 years old is fucking retarded. Everyone if allowed to age beyond 100 would have parkison's and alzheimers, this man somehow avoided all disease and lived almost 900% longer then any recorded human with the worst medical care you could imagine.
Lol, we have the technology today to achieve a lifespan of 100 years. 900 isn't out of the question. ;)

You know by now that "faith" doesn't require evidence. What's perplexing to me is that many christians I know of are intelligent logical people when it comes to everyday life, but are total idiots when it comes to logically explaining their belief in the bible.

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #148 on: April 28, 2010, 10:00:46 AM »
there was a period in remote history (like 10-11,000BC if i remember correctly) during which there was a significant rise in sea level and a great many coastal areas which probably did maintain civilizations were completely flooded....there are tons of underwater ruins around the world from india, japan, europe, lesser known ones in the caribbean region, etc...it was the memory of this event  which was seared in the memory of humankind and passed down through the generations as the 'great flood' story (noahs ark was just one of the many)



this post = /thread , why are you guys still arguing?

pluck

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Re: Noahs Ark Found
« Reply #149 on: April 28, 2010, 10:02:24 AM »
If you think the Ark was real you are a complete dumbass with no sense of reality. All the animals in the world on one boat in a few days. LOL. Keep christianing it up. Their trick is working you silly fool.

I like you.
It's amazing people believe this shit.