Despite the fact I've had the same repeat discussions since about 2011 with avxo doing the tit for tat, line by line, phrase by phrase, quote for quote discussion he prefers. I don't hate the guy....I don't even dislike the guy. Thing is I like avxo and if he needed my help he'd get it. He isn't blocked on my PMs. I don't ignore him. Further, I respect his opinions and read what he has to say on other topics on the board.
Thanks - I appreciate that. Although we do disagree on many things, I think you're a good guy whose beliefs are honest and genuine.
I've just already done all of the back and forth on the vast majority of these topics.....repeatedly. I have enough experience and know that despite his intelligence he likes to have the last word and respond to anything and everything....fine, last word is his. I've even previously and purposefully responded in the "quote for quote" fashion with a response of nothing or a "." to see if he would reply to even that and he did just because I responded. Even with literally no words or images to discuss he still had a written reply.
Come now... I doubt I responded to an empty message.
A definition has been clearly established long ago. You just reject all definitions put forth. First the requirement was it must be "cogent" according to your subjective opinion and when that was put forth then the goalposts were moved and the requirement of "it must universally accepted and understood" was applied.
You can choose to live for yourself and whoever else you want until your final breathe. I encourage you to choose God.
God left the door open for you to come to him. He wants you to choose to seek him. We discussed this many times.
The problem is that the definition, in order to be useful, must be internally consistent and allow us to unambigiously distinguish the thing being defined from something else. I don't think the definition meets that standard and have explained why, giving you examples of how it fails.
I'm happy to seek God, but before I can do so, I need to know
what I'm seeking and how I'll know when I found it. Let me give you an example: I want to recommend a great pizza place to you.
- I can tell you: "There's a great pizza place 123 Main Place. You need to try their 'House Special' pizza! It's the best pizza around!" and then you can go and try. Easy! or;
- I can tell you "There's a restaurant, that makes a great round cooked dough circle with stuff on top. The dough is very light and fluffy and they put a sauce made with San Marzano tomatoes. You'll know you have the right place because the carpet is green and there's a picture of the owner's Father behind the counter - he started the shop 49 years ago. Last time I was there, I had their salad."
Sure, I'd listen to all you have to say about the topic. If you were only person to experience this and had nothing else to offer I'd be skeptical.
I listen to you as well and I am skeptical too. That many people shares your beliefs doesn't really help. After all, many people also believe other things, which often contradict your beliefs.
Rationality is subjective and shaped by our presuppositions and worldviews.....basically grounded in individual opinions. If you refuse to meet God on his terms as outlined in scripture and listen to and follow the testimonies of others (follow the evidence basically....of which I am apart) I'm helpless to assist you. No desire to know God, then no God.
I don't think that rationality is subjective. This is about objectivity.
Exactly, you see a relationship with God as being shackled and imprisoned and forsaking all rationality and objectivity. I've experienced the ultimate freedom that comes with a relationship with God and the clarity of purpose and understanding it brings. I have objectivity grounded in a foundation of God. You have no God so you're grounded in subjectivity of self. Why should I value your opinion over God's ultimate authority?
Your value judgements must, of course, be made based on your values and your beliefs should inform them. I'm not asking you to value my opinion, although I hope that you'd at least think about what I have to say. So, questions about my objectivity aside, I have one question: You think that being born "tainted" with Original Sin and essentially condemned to eternal punishment lest you seek out a savior isn't being shackled and imprisoned?
