Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: HowieW on April 01, 2008, 07:33:22 PM
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Dear Bob,
I would hope you realize how much respect and admiration I have for you as an outstanding spokesman for our sport of bodybuilding. I find you to be quite intelligent, charismatic , yet down to earth.
I sincerely hesitate to write this as it risks putting you on the spot. Having said that , this is an open forum and I doubt anyone will take some Joe Blow like me very serious anyway.
You have said, that a bodybuilder has a "choice" between doing what needs to be done to compete ( drug use) or to retire. Obviously, some amount of various drugs must be taken by elite level bodybuilders to compete on a level playing field. Since most of this drug use violates the federal drug laws, the bodybuilder is really making a choice to break the drug laws to compete or retire.
In is my strong belief that NO pro or top amatuer athlete should have to risk breaking the law just to compete fairly.
We have seen the media circus with the various steroid hearings in baseball and other sports.No resaonble person that loved bodybuilding would want to see our sport dragged into that nightmare.
Also consider that extreme , unrestricted drug use has hurt female bodybuilder greatly. The top female bodybuilders may train hard and deserve our respect as bodybuilders, but the androgenic look from absurd level of hormones has destroyed any mainstream appeal it once enjoyed.Plus, I believe , 3 years ago, the DEA served several supeonas at the Arnold classic. Many top pros were called in and questioned.
I think we can both agree that when a NON bodybuilding government agency steps in, NOTHING good for bodybuilding will come of it.
You Bob ,are a pro bodybuilder and pro athletes rep. You have a voice and platform that a simple fan like me does not, that is why I am writting this to you. I was part of the AAU MR America Comm., when drug testing debacles and law suits that followed ended the Mr America for good, just a decade ago. I simply urge you Bob, to use your influence to try and bring some reason and sanity to this issue.
I am not sure what the exact solution is. But as lifetime fan of bodybuilding, I would hope that "something" positve can be done now, rather than wait for worst.
Thanks for being a great spokesman for our sport and I apologize if this was out of line on my part.
Sincerely, Howard White, Ga
PS/ I like bodybuilding and get big.com. If ya want to flame me , fine, I am a big boy and can take the heat.
I have decided NOT to leave the kitchen fellas. ;)
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Dear Bob,
I would hope you realize how much respect and admiration I have for you as an outstanding spokesman for our sport of bodybuilding. I find you to be quite intelligent, charismatic , yet down to earth.
I sincerely hesitate to write this as it risks putting you on the spot. Having said that , this is an open forum and I doubt anyone will take some Joe Blow like me very serious anyway.
You have said, that a bodybuilder has a "choice" between doing what needs to be done to compete ( drug use) or to retire. Obviously, some amount of various drugs must be taken by elite level bodybuilders to compete on a level playing field. Since most of this drug use violates the federal drug laws, the bodybuilder is really making a choice to break the drug laws to compete or retire.
In is my strong belief that NO pro or top amatuer athlete should have to risk breaking the law just to compete fairly.
We have seen the media circus with the various steroid hearings in baseball and other sports.No resaonble person that loved bodybuilding would want to see our sport dragged into that nightmare.
Also consider that extreme , unrestricted drug use has hurt female bodybuilder greatly. The top female bodybuilders may train hard and deserve our respect as bodybuilders, but the androgenic look from absurd level of hormones has destroyed any mainstream appeal it once enjoyed.Plus, I believe , 3 years ago, the DEA served several supeonas at the Arnold classic. Many top pros were called in and questioned.
I think we can both agree that when a NON bodybuilding government agency steps in, NOTHING good for bodybuilding will come of it.
You Bob ,are a pro bodybuilder and pro athletes rep. You have a voice and platform that a simple fan like me does not, that is why I am writting this to you. I was part of the AAU MR America Comm., when drug testing debacles and law suits that followed ended the Mr America for good, just a decade ago. I simply urge you Bob, to use your influence to try and bring some reason and sanity to this issue.
I am not sure what the exact solution is. But as lifetime fan of bodybuilding, I would hope that "something" positve can be done now, rather than wait for worst.
Thanks for being a great spokesman for our sport and I apologize if this was out of line on my part.
Sincerely, Howard White, Ga
PS/ I like bodybuilding and get big.com. If ya want to flame me , fine, I am a big boy and can take the heat.
I have decided NOT to leave the kitchen fellas. ;)
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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(http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/notthisjeez.jpg)
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Dear Bob,
I would hope you realize how much respect and admiration I have for you as an outstanding spokesman for our sport of bodybuilding. I find you to be quite intelligent, charismatic , yet down to earth.
I sincerely hesitate to write this as it risks putting you on the spot. Having said that , this is an open forum and I doubt anyone will take some Joe Blow like me very serious anyway.
You have said, that a bodybuilder has a "choice" between doing what needs to be done to compete ( drug use) or to retire. Obviously, some amount of various drugs must be taken by elite level bodybuilders to compete on a level playing field. Since most of this drug use violates the federal drug laws, the bodybuilder is really making a choice to break the drug laws to compete or retire.
In is my strong belief that NO pro or top amatuer athlete should have to risk breaking the law just to compete fairly.
We have seen the media circus with the various steroid hearings in baseball and other sports.No resaonble person that loved bodybuilding would want to see our sport dragged into that nightmare.
Also consider that extreme , unrestricted drug use has hurt female bodybuilder greatly. The top female bodybuilders may train hard and deserve our respect as bodybuilders, but the androgenic look from absurd level of hormones has destroyed any mainstream appeal it once enjoyed.Plus, I believe , 3 years ago, the DEA served several supeonas at the Arnold classic. Many top pros were called in and questioned.
I think we can both agree that when a NON bodybuilding government agency steps in, NOTHING good for bodybuilding will come of it.
You Bob ,are a pro bodybuilder and pro athletes rep. You have a voice and platform that a simple fan like me does not, that is why I am writting this to you. I was part of the AAU MR America Comm., when drug testing debacles and law suits that followed ended the Mr America for good, just a decade ago. I simply urge you Bob, to use your influence to try and bring some reason and sanity to this issue.
I am not sure what the exact solution is. But as lifetime fan of bodybuilding, I would hope that "something" positve can be done now, rather than wait for worst.
Thanks for being a great spokesman for our sport and I apologize if this was out of line on my part.
Sincerely, Howard White, Ga
PS/ I like bodybuilding and get big.com. If ya want to flame me , fine, I am a big boy and can take the heat.
I have decided NOT to leave the kitchen fellas. ;)
meltdown
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We are going to hear about this guy in the news "Guy shoots up mall due to drug use in IFBB"
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(http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/notthisjeez.jpg)
This is an open forum. IF silly and insulting posts are ok and allowed ,so should polite and issue based threads.
If you don't like that, ignore me, otherwise too bad, it is my board too.Bash me all you want, I have decided to post what i feel needs to be said, and could care less how negative anyone is with me.
I notice you had to attack me and ignored the issue? hmmmmm, unable to argue? hehe
Thanks, Howard
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We are going to hear about this guy in the news "Guy shoots up mall due to drug use in IFBB"
Very funny.
I am a man of reason, no more , no less. You?
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This is an open forum. IF silly and insulting posts are ok and allowed ,so should polite and issue based threads.
If you don't like that, ignore me, otherwise too bad, it is my board too.Bash me all you want, I have decided to post what i feel needs to be said, and could care less how negative anyone is with me.
I notice you had to attack me and ignored the issue? hmmmmm, unable to argue? hehe
Thanks, Howard
meltdown #2
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This is an open forum. IF silly and insulting posts are ok and allowed ,so should polite and issue based threads.
If you don't like that, ignore me, otherwise too bad, it is my board too.Bash me all you want, I have decided to post what i feel needs to be said, and could care less how negative anyone is with me.
I notice you had to attack me and ignored the issue? hmmmmm, unable to argue? hehe
Thanks, Howard
I don't have any negative opinion towards you I just thought you were done with the drug talk. :)
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Very funny.
I am a man of reason, no more , no less. You?
NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR YOUR SHIT ANYMORE.
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once again.. take drugs out of bodybuilding and you no longer have it.. is that what you want howie?... you truly dont see how flawed your arguement is.. let it rest.. ::) send bob a pm.. it is old in the forum..
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We are going to hear about this guy in the news "Guy shoots up mall due to drug use in IFBB"
shit, that might actually work in getting the national spotlight on the issue.
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meltdown #2
Why is a thoughtful reply with no threats or emotion considered a meltdown? hehehehe.
Look, if you don't agree with my topic argue the pt.
In all honesty you sound fairly dumb, juvinille and silly when you make ad naseum lame silly replys to me and posts like mine. You want GET BIg to be some wacky silly JR HS place and I don't fit in.
Well too bad, I am not going away, so deal with it chucko Hehe
I staked my get big calim long ago and you idiots are not driving me off it.
Ya gonna have to deal with me or ignore me.
Thanks for playing, Howard
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DUDE SHUT THE FUCK UP EVERY THREAD IN G/O IS YOU WHINING LIKE A BITCH ABOUT STEROIDS IN BODYBUILDING. NO ONE CARES AND ITS GETTING REALLY FUCKING BORING. FIND A NEW TOPIC
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DUDE SHUT THE FUCK UP EVERY THREAD IN G/O IS YOU WHINING LIKE A BITCH ABOUT STEROIDS IN BODYBUILDING. NO ONE CARES AND ITS GETTING REALLY FUCKING BORING. FIND A NEW TOPIC
Best meltdown I've seen so far!
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I don't have any negative opinion towards you I just thought you were done with the drug talk. :)
I was but I read Bobs response that drug use was a pros choice or he could retire. I felt that required a response.
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Why is a thoughtful reply with no threats or emotion considered a meltdown? hehehehe.
Look, if you don't agree with my topic argue the pt.
In all honesty you sound fairly dumb, juvinille and silly when you make ad naseum lame silly replys to me and posts like mine. You want GET BIg to be some wacky silly JR HS place and I don't fit in.
Well too bad, I am not going away, so deal with it chucko Hehe
I staked my get big calim long ago and you idiots are not driving me off it.
Ya gonna have to deal with me or ignore me.
Thanks for playing, Howard
If we ignored you, you would have 0 replies.
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AMEN.. or a new hobby.. ::)
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Howie has a point, however, fans want to see freaks...the IFBB knows this. The only ones to take a stand are the competitors. They of course won't because they're too dumb too. They'll risk serious health problems later in life, why, simple lack of options. It's not as if it was, become a doctor or be a bodybuilder..hahah Most of these guys are idiots, so you'll never see a change in the sport. Personally, I find it amusing to watch people inject all types of shit into themselves, just for a little cash and "love for the sport". Translation: Most drugged up bodybuilders have yes, a drug problem...phrase it how you will, but it's a drug addiction all the same.
I could careless if every pro today dropped dead of a heart attack, due to their stupidity...I'd probably laugh. ;D Who decided one day...yeah, I'm going to take insulin, gh, steroid and be jacked? It's idiotic. 95% of the country would agree there. Yes, it's doing what you "love", but the same could be said for a heroin junkie..."he's just livin the dream, doing what he loves to do"...hahah
Typical of most on this board to throw in a "meltdown" or STFU, type comment. To form some kind of real discussion with less than intelligent people, can be a stretch.
Meltdown.
Nobody cares.
etc, etc.
haha, Oh man.
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beener meltdown induced by HowieW meltdown induced by drugs in bodybuilding
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Dear Bob,
I would hope you realize how much respect and admiration I have for you as an outstanding spokesman for our sport of bodybuilding. I find you to be quite intelligent, charismatic , yet down to earth.
I sincerely hesitate to write this as it risks putting you on the spot. Having said that , this is an open forum and I doubt anyone will take some Joe Blow like me very serious anyway.
You have said, that a bodybuilder has a "choice" between doing what needs to be done to compete ( drug use) or to retire. Obviously, some amount of various drugs must be taken by elite level bodybuilders to compete on a level playing field. Since most of this drug use violates the federal drug laws, the bodybuilder is really making a choice to break the drug laws to compete or retire.
In is my strong belief that NO pro or top amatuer athlete should have to risk breaking the law just to compete fairly.
We have seen the media circus with the various steroid hearings in baseball and other sports.No resaonble person that loved bodybuilding would want to see our sport dragged into that nightmare.
Also consider that extreme , unrestricted drug use has hurt female bodybuilder greatly. The top female bodybuilders may train hard and deserve our respect as bodybuilders, but the androgenic look from absurd level of hormones has destroyed any mainstream appeal it once enjoyed.Plus, I believe , 3 years ago, the DEA served several supeonas at the Arnold classic. Many top pros were called in and questioned.
I think we can both agree that when a NON bodybuilding government agency steps in, NOTHING good for bodybuilding will come of it.
You Bob ,are a pro bodybuilder and pro athletes rep. You have a voice and platform that a simple fan like me does not, that is why I am writting this to you. I was part of the AAU MR America Comm., when drug testing debacles and law suits that followed ended the Mr America for good, just a decade ago. I simply urge you Bob, to use your influence to try and bring some reason and sanity to this issue.
I am not sure what the exact solution is. But as lifetime fan of bodybuilding, I would hope that "something" positve can be done now, rather than wait for worst.
Thanks for being a great spokesman for our sport and I apologize if this was out of line on my part.
Sincerely, Howard White, Ga
PS/ I like bodybuilding and get big.com. If ya want to flame me , fine, I am a big boy and can take the heat.
I have decided NOT to leave the kitchen fellas. ;)
I appreciate your letter, Howie...no need for apologies for having beliefs that others may or may not share. You're a true fan of the sport in every sense of the word.
I don't believe BB will ever have to go through the witchhunting thats going on in pro Baseball due to the simple fact that we aren't even on the radar screen when it comes to money and interest...
It wasn't drug testing, etc that ended the AAU, it was the NPC that ended them....case and point: the NPC has not only endured, but grown in every aspect over the years having more shows and members than at any point in it's history.
Your own statement kind of answers itself:
"In is my strong belief that NO pro or top amatuer athlete should have to risk breaking the law just to compete fairly. "
No pro or top amateur HAS to risk breaking the law, nor do thay HAVE to compete unfairly. They can choose to compete in the drug tested shows, natural organizations...ensuring they are on equal par with others that share the same mindset.
At the end of the day, it the fans that dictate what level of competition they want to support....and they have spoken loudly....not just in BB, but every sport...they want bigger, stronger, faster, and freakier...thats why there were 10,000 people at the Olympia, and 10 people at the last natural show.
It's not like the athletes that compete are exactly chomping at the bit rallying for drug testing, either....it is what it is.
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once again.. take drugs out of bodybuilding and you no longer have it.. is that what you want howie?... you truly dont see how flawed your arguement is.. let it rest.. ::) send bob a pm.. it is old in the forum..
Ok, so threads on the WWE bout or thugs attacking some kids is more relevent in bdoybuilding? wtf?
Granted , drugs to make a more impressive physique, but mush of it is presently against the US drug laws.
Driving 100 mph might be cool as well, but you can't use that as defense when the cop stops you.
Your flaw is in trying to defend an illegal practice that is even against the rules of the sport,based on that the pros look better drugged. How one looks does NOT change the law or make a credible defense.
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beener meltdown induced by HowieW meltdown induced by drugs in bodybuilding
Yarrr
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this thread would be complete if joeloco come and have a meltdown too
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Howie, your efforts are laudable. Unfortunately, you are asking the wrong person to do something about the drugs in bodybuilding. Consider that Bob was appointed to his position. The professional athletes have no elected representative. His position is a sham and just about every intelligent person on Getbig knows it. That is why he is openly called the IFBB stooge and rightly so.
I resent that a person in any capacity with the IFBB or pro division would use slander to dismiss the objections of others. This man has slandered me several times in this forum by stating or suggesting I am a pedophile and that I am senile, stupid and uninformed. Behaviour like Bob's is contemptible and I resent that he represents anyone at all. The man has no respect for those who have opinions that differ from his own.
I doubt anything positive will result from posting about the drug problem on Getbig. You clearly present the situation that is faced by the professionals and anyone who aspires to winning a major open title. It appears that drug use is tolerated and that is clearly something that should not be allowed. That Arnold can be associated with a professional bodybuilding contest suggests this is a political issue and either bodybuilding is ignored or he is given special consideration.
Bob has clearly stated that he represents the professional athletes and unless several of them complain in writing to him then he doesn't feel he has a mandate or duty to do anything about the drug problem. Consider that Bob won a professional masters competition not so long ago and perhaps he participated in doing the same thing most other professionals are doing. Namely, he used drugs to assist building his muscles, etc. Therefore, he can hardly be expected to go against what he has gone along with for many years in his quest to win a major title.
I think there is a paradigm shift coming because the drug situation has become quite extreme and something has to be done to stop the lunacy. That many pros continue to use dangerous drugs and inject substances doesn't mean it should be accepted or tolerated.
When you realize that Ben, Joe, Raphael, Jim and others are behind the IFBB it makes you wonder what on earth their vision is for the sport. They have lost the plot and do not deserve to be supported by bodybuilders. The sorry state of bodybuilding has to blamed on someone and the buck stops with those who run bodybuilding and promote contests.
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No pro or top amateur HAS to risk breaking the law, nor do thay HAVE to compete unfairly. They can choose to compete in the drug tested shows, natural organizations...ensuring they are on equal par with others that share the same mindset.
At the end of the day, it the fans that dictate what level of competition they want to support....and they have spoken loudly....not just in BB, but every sport...they want bigger, stronger, faster, and freakier...thats why there were 10,000 people at the Olympia, and 10 people at the last natural show.
It's not like the athletes that compete are exactly chomping at the bit rallying for drug testing, either....it is what it is.
Agreed. It's just funny how the competitors are completely exploited and are ok with it. The IFBB doesn't give a shit about their health and neither do the fans. I guess the only ones who lose, are the competitors. ;) That's their choice, but one I'd never make. It's great when your health is fine, it's another when your getting blood work done at 40. To me, no amount of money is worth poor health, which for most in the IFBB, is inevitable.
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Howie, your efforts are laudable. Unfortunately, you are asking the wrong person to do something about the drugs in bodybuilding. Consider that Bob was appointed to his position. The professional athletes have no elected representative. His position is a sham and just about every intelligent person on Getbig knows it. That is why he is openly called the IFBB stooge and rightly so.
I resent that a person in any capacity with the IFBB or pro division would use slander to dismiss the objections of others. This man has slandered me several times in this forum by stating or suggesting I am a pedophile and that I am old, stupid and uninformed. Behaviour like Bob's is contemptible and I resent that he represents anyone at all. The man has no respect for those who have opinions that differ from his own.
I doubt anything positive will result from posting about the drug problem on Getbig. You clearly present the situation that is faced by the professionals and anyone who aspires to winning a major open title. It appears that drug use is tolerated and that is clearly something that should not be allowed. That Arnold can be associated with a professional bodybuilding contest suggests this is a political issue and either bodybuilding is ignored or he is given special consideration.
Bob has clearly stated that he represents the professional athletes and unless several of them complain in writing to him then he doesn't feel he has a mandate or duty to do anything about the drug problem. Consider that Bob won a professional masters competition not so long ago and perhaps he participated in doing the same thing most other professionals are doing. Namely, he used drugs to assist building his muscles, etc. Therefore, he can hardly be expected to go against what he has gone along with for many years in his quest to win a major title.
I think there is a paradigm shift coming because the drug situation has become quite extreme and something has to be done to stop the lunacy. That many pros continue to use dangerous drugs and inject substances doesn't mean it should be accepted or tolerated.
When you realize that Ben, Joe, Raphael, Jim and others are behind the IFBB it makes you wonder what on earth their vision is for the sport. They have lost the plot and do not deserve to be supported by bodybuilders. The sorry state of bodybuilding has to blamed on someone and the buck stops with those who run bodybuilding and promote contests.
I've never slandered you Basile....anything I've ever said about you is true.
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(http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/notthisjeez.jpg)
That picture describes exactly what i'm thinking now.
Come on, Howie...get a life.
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Bob, you have openly slandered me. Don't think your sophistry can save you. I have copies of everything you posted.
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Howie has a point, however, fans want to see freaks...the IFBB knows this. The only ones to take a stand are the competitors. They of course won't because they're too dumb too. They'll risk serious health problems later in life, why, simple lack of options. It's not as if it was, become a doctor or be a bodybuilder..hahah Most of these guys are idiots, so you'll never see a change in the sport. Personally, I find it amusing to watch people inject all types of shit into themselves, just for a little cash and "love for the sport". Translation: Most drugged up bodybuilders have yes, a drug problem...phrase it how you will, but it's a drug addiction all the same.
I could careless if every pro today dropped dead of a heart attack, due to their stupidity...I'd probably laugh. ;D Who decided one day...yeah, I'm going to take insulin, gh, steroid and be jacked? It's idiotic. 95% of the country would agree there. Yes, it's doing what you "love", but the same could be said for a heroin junkie..."he's just livin the dream, doing what he loves to do"...hahah
Typical of most on this board to throw in a "meltdown" or STFU, type comment. To form some kind of real discussion with less than intelligent people, can be a stretch.
Meltdown.
Nobody cares.
etc, etc.
haha, Oh man.
Thanka and great reply. LOL, I may be rambling at times but at least I cam complete a thought and make a reply.
These guys always resort to simple basic insults and have no ammo for an intelligent reply.
What they don't quite get is that the simple insults are baseless and easy to laugh at then ignore.
I doubt I could have become a pro, my few humble gifts were in academics and teaching.
I do enjoy the overall bodybuilding lifestyle (without extreme drug use of course).
I would prefer to see the big time pro shows like the ARNOLD with big time production and have the pros on a lot less drugs. In fact , I would go to the Olmypia and MORE pro events, if they did that, seriously.
I suspect most of the biggest naysayers never even go to shows and by tickets?
Why the IFBB pro div would cater to "that crowd" seems pretty dumb. I honestly think they the IFBB pro div could do a LOT better $$$ and sponser wise with a less freaky pro. Look at the most successful health club/gym chains? Hardly an attraction for steroid induced mass freaks. Overall, their are lot more people like me , who are NOT rich but have some disposable income to spend of bodybuilding related stuff and new, state of the art gyms.
Of course we will always have the crowd that gets into Pro Wrasslin, Jerry Springer and Who Wants to Marry a Midget, kind of shows .
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Settle down bitches, it's just oiled up men in thongs. ::)
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Howie is on a mission to make changes in the IFBB ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Hey, Howie, The Jerry Springer Show is my favourite TV show!
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Bob, you have openly slandered me. Don't think your sophistry can save you. I have copies of everything you posted.
Great...should make a nice entry into your diary.
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Settle down bitches, it's just oiled up men in thongs. ::)
HEY!! That's Gordiano's line......!!
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HEY!! That's Gordiano's line......!!
He's running late, I'm filling in temporarily. :)
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In another thread this is what Bob posted about me:
"The only one making an ass of themselves is YOU...everytime you post one of your pedofile-loking pictures of your fat self on the internet for all to laugh at....or attempt to talk shop about something you have ZERO knowledge of, aren't involved in, and use Getbig as your source of info..."
Can Bob explain exactly what a 'pedofile-loking picture' is? You are suggesting that I am one because I look like one! This is beyond civility even on Getbig.
Do you really want to challenge my knowledge of bodybuilding?
You are lamentable, Bob, and athletes rep my ass. Get yourself elected and I will respect that position. The IFBB does way too much appointing of important positions.
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In another thread this is what Bob posted about me:
"The only one making an ass of themselves is YOU...everytime you post one of your pedofile-loking pictures of your fat self on the internet for all to laugh at....or attempt to talk shop about something you have ZERO knowledge of, aren't involved in, and use Getbig as your source of info..."
Can Bob explain exactly what a 'pedofile-loking picture' is? You are suggesting that I am one because I look like one! This is beyond civility even on Getbig.
Do you really want to challenge my knowledge of bodybuilding?
You are lamentable, Bob, and athletes rep my ass. Get yourself elected and I will respect that position. The IFBB does way too much appointing of important positions.
It's not 1970 Vinny, get over yourself. ::)
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In another thread this is what Bob posted about me:
"The only one making an ass of themselves is YOU...everytime you post one of your pedofile-loking pictures of your fat self on the internet for all to laugh at....or attempt to talk shop about something you have ZERO knowledge of, aren't involved in, and use Getbig as your source of info..."
Can Bob explain exactly what a 'pedofile-loking picture' is? You are suggesting that I am one because I look like one! This is beyond civility even on Getbig.
Do you really want to challenge my knowledge of bodybuilding?
You are lamentable, Bob, and athletes rep my ass. Get yourself elected and I will respect that position. The IFBB does way too much appointing of important positions.
The world would be better off without you.
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In another thread this is what Bob posted about me:
"The only one making an ass of themselves is YOU...everytime you post one of your pedofile-loking pictures of your fat self on the internet for all to laugh at....or attempt to talk shop about something you have ZERO knowledge of, aren't involved in, and use Getbig as your source of info..."
Can Bob explain exactly what a 'pedofile-loking picture' is? You are suggesting that I am one because I look like one! This is beyond civility even on Getbig.
Do you really want to challenge my knowledge of bodybuilding?
You are lamentable, Bob, and athletes rep my ass. Get yourself elected and I will respect that position. The IFBB does way too much appointing of important positions.
It's just a look, Basile...like the guys "having a seat" on Dateline.
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It's just a look, Basile...like the guys "having a seat" on Dateline.
AHAHHA oh man THIS is why Bob Chick is THE FUCKING MAN.
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yeah..... real funny making fun of molested kids......good job, ifbbb rep, or whatever you thougbht you were
fired
ps. i have no idea what im talkijngbaab out , but it sounds dangerous ;)
p.s.s. consider yersefl fiered :D
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I've never slandered you Basile....anything I've ever said about you is true.
Even the thing about those koalas and a leaf-wrapped "doodle"?
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>:(
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>:(
:o Settle down Kamalis bodyguard, it's only the internet!! :o
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I dont believe the IFBB should stand in the way of the boundless creative mind of the human being. It is what drives the human species forward and it should never be repressed or doused, stunting growth and destroying free will.
The people that want to transform their bodies with pharmacuticals for their own creative purposes should be allowed to do so as long as they dont hurt another person. The individual has the choice and that is what the IFBB is allowing, individual freedoms and choices.
Some of you are facist wanting to control the human imagination. Some of you should go live in a communist country and see how the binding of human creativity and expression destroys progress and crushes souls.
The whole issue of steroids in bodybuilding would be resolved if the IFBB would catagorized bodybuilding as an art rather than a sport. It would be that simple.
(no, it should not be allowed in real sports, i.e baseball, they are not creative and because there is no way a level playing ground can be maintained, but those are the only reasons why I think it should be banned. However they should be allow for medical purposes for short term treatments, to deny them is to deny the best medicine to an injured player which is unethical.)
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The whole issue of steroids in bodybuilding would be resolved if the IFBB would catagorized bodybuilding as an art rather than a sport. It would be that simple.
That's a good point. The only downside is that calling it an "art" would make bodybuilding even gayer than it already is (if that's possible.)
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DUDE SHUT THE FUCK UP EVERY THREAD IN G/O IS YOU WHINING LIKE A BITCH ABOUT STEROIDS IN BODYBUILDING. NO ONE CARES AND ITS GETTING REALLY FUCKING BORING. FIND A NEW TOPIC
qft
lol
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as chick as stated, the fans have spoken.. more of them want the freaks than the smaller guys.. and the attendence at the arnold, the olympia, and the amount of competitors in the last couple npc nationals show that.. as always, if the people want the smaller, natural physiques, then support the nga and some others.. but, people are not.. why? the competitors are not to their liking.. drug testing at the shows (npc, ifbb) will not curtail the drug use as shown by the olympics and the ifbb world championships.. so the whole health and legal issue is moot.. they will still be using.. with all due respect, this has been told to you numerous times and bob has now said the same thing that many here of already told you the past few weeks... i hope it at least answers your issues..
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Howie how much creatine do you take a day?
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Very funny.
I am a man of reason, no more , no less. You?
A man of reason wouldn't try the same thing over and over, expecting different results.
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Why cannot a BB prepare for a contest in a country where steroids are legal and hop over the border when there done preparing.
Hence break no laws,That is if you have the money,I was thinking of travelling to Pattaya Thailand as a BB Holiday.
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I appreciate your letter, Howie...no need for apologies for having beliefs that others may or may not share. You're a true fan of the sport in every sense of the word.
I don't believe BB will ever have to go through the witchhunting thats going on in pro Baseball due to the simple fact that we aren't even on the radar screen when it comes to money and interest...
It wasn't drug testing, etc that ended the AAU, it was the NPC that ended them....case and point: the NPC has not only endured, but grown in every aspect over the years having more shows and members than at any point in it's history.
Your own statement kind of answers itself:
"In is my strong belief that NO pro or top amatuer athlete should have to risk breaking the law just to compete fairly. "
No pro or top amateur HAS to risk breaking the law, nor do thay HAVE to compete unfairly. They can choose to compete in the drug tested shows, natural organizations...ensuring they are on equal par with others that share the same mindset.
At the end of the day, it the fans that dictate what level of competition they want to support....and they have spoken loudly....not just in BB, but every sport...they want bigger, stronger, faster, and freakier...thats why there were 10,000 people at the Olympia, and 10 people at the last natural show.
It's not like the athletes that compete are exactly chomping at the bit rallying for drug testing, either....it is what it is.
Thanks for the thoughtful and intellogent reply Bob. I am glad someone in bodybuilding I respect (you) realizes that I have a real passion for the sport and respect for the bodybuilders in the IFBB.
I am too much of a musclehead to NOT want to go to shows.
You are right , if the grown men/woman don't mind all the risks, it is their choice.
I will do my best to shut up now, sit back and enjoy the contests and the great physiques on the IFBB and NPC stages.
Howard
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Bob, you have openly slandered me. Don't think your sophistry can save you. I have copies of everything you posted.
Get off my lawn, too.
/vince, your rants (and yes, they are now rants, not posts) indicate frustration/isolation to me. get out and mix with people for a while and connect. have fun. enjoy yourself in company.
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I dont believe the IFBB should stand in the way of the boundless creative mind of the human being. It is what drives the human species forward and it should never be repressed or doused, stunting growth and destroying free will.
The people that want to transform their bodies with pharmacuticals for their own creative purposes should be allowed to do so as long as they dont hurt another person. The individual has the choice and that is what the IFBB is allowing, individual freedoms and choices.
Some of you are facist wanting to control the human imagination. Some of you should go live in a communist country and see how the binding of human creativity and expression destroys progress and crushes souls.
The whole issue of steroids in bodybuilding would be resolved if the IFBB would catagorized bodybuilding as an art rather than a sport. It would be that simple.
(no, it should not be allowed in real sports, i.e baseball, they are not creative and because there is no way a level playing ground can be maintained, but those are the only reasons why I think it should be banned. However they should be allow for medical purposes for short term treatments, to deny them is to deny the best medicine to an injured player which is unethical.)
This post is sad. Steroid use has gone so far as to make a lot of the creative processes re training irrelevant. Instead of finding new ways to train many have sought new drugs to take. The result is that hypertrophy theory is not moving forward much at all. For a start, how on earth is anyone going to know what is generating the results if so many use heaps of drugs? Who needs scientific bodybuilding or experience when the drug gurus are worshipped?
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I love the Drugs, I love seeing the Freaks on stage, long live BODYBUILDING?...ahwoo!!
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Dr Chimps is worrying about me and that is a worry.
It is pointless trying to debate with the likes of Bob Chick. He is part of the problem in bodybuilding and he should be thrown out with the bath water. A pity.
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Dr Chimps is worrying about me and that is a worry.
It is pointless trying to debate with the likes of Bob Chick. He is part of the problem in bodybuilding and he should be thrown out with the bath water. A pity.
Fair enough. I just see you and Howie shouting into the wind and getting increasingly wound up because it doesn't give you the answer you want, is all.
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No worries. Chick is good at putting people down because he is ruthless. Debating with him is like trying to swat a mosquito. I post to support Howie, too. The good guys need the support.
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I do enjoy the overall bodybuilding lifestyle (without extreme drug use of course).
I would prefer to see the big time pro shows like the ARNOLD with big time production and have the pros on a lot less drugs. In fact , I would go to the Olmypia and MORE pro events, if they did that, seriously.
So you still want some drugs in bodybuilding? How is this going to help the legality aspect?
Of course I knew you didn't want to eliminate the drugs which is why I couldn't understand why you'd post such ideas.
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This post is sad. Steroid use has gone so far as to make a lot of the creative processes re training irrelevant. Instead of finding new ways to train many have sought new drugs to take. The result is that hypertrophy theory is not moving forward much at all. For a start, how on earth is anyone going to know what is generating the results if so many use heaps of drugs? Who needs scientific bodybuilding or experience when the drug gurus are worshipped?
its hardly sad, its right on the money.....you and Howie are trying to limit the human imagination, you want some kind of controlled experiment conducted by superiors, like Marx. But the superiors are not looking for ways to increase hypertorphy so the people have taken upon themselves.
You may think they are wrong but human progress is not linear it zig zags, sometimes dips but is always moving forward, you guys want to stop it because your dont have faith in human creativity and ingenuity.
If humans can imagine it then they should be free to seek out ways to bring that imagination to reality. That is how we have progressed since the beginning of time.
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its hardly sad, its right on the money.....you and Howie are trying to limit the human imagination, you want some kind of controlled experiment conducted by superiors, like Marx. But the superiors are not looking for ways to increase hypertorphy so the people have taken upon themselves.
You may think they are wrong but human progress is not linear it zig zags, sometimes dips but is always moving forward, you guys want to stop it because your dont have faith in human creativity and ingenuity.
If humans can imagine it then they should be free to seek out ways to bring that imagination to reality. That is how we have progressed since the beginning of time.
One problem, however. It is the law we are talking about not opinion here
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One problem, however. It is the law we are talking about not opinion here
Howie, no 500 word "I love BBing but don't like the direction it's going" essay today?
What gives?
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Howie, you should join musclemission.org. They have a crusade against steroids. Let me tell you something. You're barking up the wrong tree. The only reason that steroids are even in the news is that the gov needs to put up smoke screens to divert the sheeps attention from the failure of the iraq war. Steroids for 20 years have been a non issue in America and then all of a sudden people act like its a drug that kills.
If you want to save lives and save children stop worrying about steroids and contact your senator about banning cigarettes or alcohol. Heck thousands and thousands of people die each year from car accidents so you should ask them to ban driving. Also ban guns, and while your at it did you realize that 4000 soldiers have died in Iraq, how many Americans have died from steroid use? Yet we have the news acting like steroids are evil and the Iraq war is necessary to protect our freedom.
You have to get your head screwed on straight and stop living your life through the media and see the world for what it really is.
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One problem, however. It is the law we are talking about not opinion here
yes I realize that, it should be in one of your other hundred threads ;D...but I am still right.
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Howie, you should join musclemission.org. They have a crusade against steroids. Let me tell you something. You're barking up the wrong tree. The only reason that steroids are even in the news is that the gov needs to put up smoke screens to divert the sheeps attention from the failure of the iraq war. Steroids for 20 years have been a non issue in America and then all of a sudden people act like its a drug that kills.
If you want to save lives and save children stop worrying about steroids and contact your senator about banning cigarettes or alcohol. Heck thousands and thousands of people die each year from car accidents so you should ask them to ban driving. Also ban guns, and while your at it did you realize that 4000 soldiers have died in Iraq, how many Americans have died from steroid use? Yet we have the news acting like steroids are evil and the Iraq war is necessary to protect our freedom.
You have to get your head screwed on straight and stop living your life through the media and see the world for what it really is.
Stark and Howie want to give muslims the steroids.......die a long slow incredibly muscular,strong and tan death
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I still think LEE should return and post on getbig again...
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No pro or top amateur HAS to risk breaking the law, nor do thay HAVE to compete unfairly. They can choose to compete in the drug tested shows, natural organizations...ensuring they are on equal par with others that share the same mindset.
I think Howie meant being successful IN THE IFBB ;)
Your response is akin to saying anyone can be a football star, not in the NFL but through different organizations like flag football or the local weekend team ::)
You simply can't argue the fact that if you want to be a "star" in bodybuilding and grace the pages/covers of FLEX, you have to be in the IFBB i.e. you have to take drugs. You do more sidestepping than the people on dancing with the stars :-*
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i'm in total agreeance with ALL the above.
well done. keep it up.
WW
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I think Howie meant being successful IN THE IFBB ;)
Your response is akin to saying anyone can be a football star, not in the NFL but through different organizations like flag football or the local weekend team ::)
You simply can't argue the fact that if you want to be a "star" in bodybuilding and grace the pages/covers of FLEX, you have to be in the IFBB i.e. you have to take drugs. You do more sidestepping than the people on dancing with the stars :-*
Under the current system, you are 100% correct, no question about it, you would need to take BB drugs to get the look needed today to win a major show. No sidstep on my part I always said that.
My issue is simply a legal one. The drug use that is required is in the country (USA) illegal for the most part.
Where the confusion comes in is that the legal reality of drugs is NOT my personal belief.
But a personal belief won't be much of a leagl defense when you get busted.
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Under the current system, you are 100% correct, no question about it, you would need to take BB drugs to get the look needed today to win a major show. No sidstep on my part I always said that.
My issue is simply a legal one. The drug use that is required is in the country (USA) illegal for the most part.
Where the confusion comes in is that the legal reality of drugs is NOT my personal belief.
But a personal belief won't be much of a leagl defense when you get busted.
That post was directed to the chicster ;)
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What about mandatory blood work? The IFBB could use it's own doctor to administer blood work testing to every competitor a couple times/year. Steroids are not tested for, but there are pass/fail criteria set for certain health indicators. This way, competitors can still use, but the IFBB is looking after the health of it's competitors, which brings some legitimacy to the organization.
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That post was directed to the chicster ;)
sorry 8)
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what would Lee do...
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Now everyone has had it spelled out what the IFBB thinks. If you don't want to take drugs then that is your choice. Enter the natural contests. If you want to be a pro and don't want to take drugs then too bad, just retire. Nice one, Bob.
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I think Howie meant being successful IN THE IFBB ;)
Your response is akin to saying anyone can be a football star, not in the NFL but through different organizations like flag football or the local weekend team ::)
You simply can't argue the fact that if you want to be a "star" in bodybuilding and grace the pages/covers of FLEX, you have to be in the IFBB i.e. you have to take drugs. You do more sidestepping than the people on dancing with the stars :-*
I know what he meant...and my answer still stands.
You can be talented and steroid free in the NFL as well, but you'll probably have to be taking something in order to have a shot and get there in the first place....why do you think the use starts in H.S.? The lure of a scholarship, then signing into the pro's, then big money contracts...
Anyone can be a successful pro in the IFBB, all you have to do is display a physique thats better than everyone else...how anyone achieves that is up to them, IMO.
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I know what he meant...and my answer still stands.
You can be talented and steroid free in the NFL as well, but you'll probably have to be taking something in order to have a shot and get there in the first place....why do you think the use starts in H.S.? The lure of a scholarship, then signing into the pro's, then big money contracts...
Anyone can be a successful pro in the IFBB, all you have to do is display a physique thats better than everyone else...how anyone achieves that is up to them, IMO.
FIXED
Anyone can be a successful pro in the IFBB, all you have to do is display a physique thats better than more orange, less symmetrical and fatter than everyone else...how anyone achieves that is up to them, IMO.
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Now everyone has had it spelled out what the IFBB thinks. If you don't want to take drugs then that is your choice. Enter the natural contests. If you want to be a pro and don't want to take drugs then too bad, just retire. Nice one, Bob.
I am on your side when it comes to this issue Vince. However, Bob Chic has one valid pt here.
The vast majority of the pros want to be free to use whatever drugs they please. If even a few pros felt like us, then it might be a real issue within the IFBB pro ranks.
The majority of the fans and promoters seem pretty content as well.
I never won a national championship or got close to a pro card, so this issue is more academic than personal for me.
I chose the mainstream career path and have no regrets. Some decide to take the legal and health risks and go for it.
I think it sad they have to take those risks, but that is the current reality.
Howard
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I know what he meant...and my answer still stands.
You can be talented and steroid free in the NFL as well, but you'll probably have to be taking something in order to have a shot and get there in the first place....why do you think the use starts in H.S.? The lure of a scholarship, then signing into the pro's, then big money contracts...
Anyone can be a successful pro in the IFBB, all you have to do is display a physique thats better than everyone else...how anyone achieves that is up to them, IMO.
;)
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Congratulations HowieW for creating quality threads on this board.
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Congratulations HowieW for creating quality threads on this board.
Thanks but my dog is of the same mind set of most get biggers when asked about them ..
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Well, Howie, Bob can't be any clearer. He is not taking any responsibility for drug use and says it is a matter of choice. Can you believe this guy? That must be what Jim M and Ben W say, too. Very sad that bodybuilding has become bodychemistry.
I don't want any part of this professional bullshit. The system is pathetic and dangerous. No thanks, but there is no choice. If I were a young guy starting out I would have a go at competing against these guys and remain natural. I think I know enough to build up big enough to come close to what they have. Wouldn't take much to build bigger calves than most of them! I guess I am the last guy who believes this because everyone else has abandoned the ship.
Almost everyone believes you need drugs and that is why it is tolerated. No wonder bodybuilding remains a sport that is frowned upon and is a cult enterprise.
Bob Chick officially killed this sport today on Getbig.
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Well, Howie, Bob can't be any clearer. He is not taking any responsibility for drug use and says it is a matter of choice. Can you believe this guy? That must be what Jim M and Ben W say, too. Very sad that bodybuilding has become bodychemistry.
I don't want any part of this professional bullshit. The system is pathetic and dangerous. No thanks, but there is no choice. If I were a young guy starting out I would have a go at competing against these guys and remain natural. I think I know enough to build up big enough to come close to what they have. Wouldn't take much to build bigger calves than most of them! I guess I am the last guy who believes this because everyone else has abandoned the ship.
Almost everyone believes you need drugs and that is why it is tolerated. No wonder bodybuilding remains a sport that is frowned upon and is a cult enterprise.
Bob Chick officially killed this sport today on Getbig.
You're not part of it NOW....don't worry about it.
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Well, Howie, Bob can't be any clearer. He is not taking any responsibility for drug use and says it is a matter of choice. Can you believe this guy? That must be what Jim M and Ben W say, too. Very sad that bodybuilding has become bodychemistry.
I don't want any part of this professional bullshit. The system is pathetic and dangerous. No thanks, but there is no choice. If I were a young guy starting out I would have a go at competing against these guys and remain natural. I think I know enough to build up big enough to come close to what they have. Wouldn't take much to build bigger calves than most of them! I guess I am the last guy who believes this because everyone else has abandoned the ship.
Almost everyone believes you need drugs and that is why it is tolerated. No wonder bodybuilding remains a sport that is frowned upon and is a cult enterprise.
Bob Chick officially killed this sport today on Getbig.
You may as well send your complains to the Olympic Committee, NFL and of course the MLB....get back to reality.
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Stark and Howie want to give muslims the steroids.......die a long slow incredibly muscular,strong and tan death
Your posts are beyond stupidity ::)
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Well, Howie, Bob can't be any clearer. He is not taking any responsibility for drug use and says it is a matter of choice. Can you believe this guy? That must be what Jim M and Ben W say, too. Very sad that bodybuilding has become bodychemistry.
I don't want any part of this professional bullshit. The system is pathetic and dangerous. No thanks, but there is no choice. If I were a young guy starting out I would have a go at competing against these guys and remain natural. I think I know enough to build up big enough to come close to what they have. Wouldn't take much to build bigger calves than most of them! I guess I am the last guy who believes this because everyone else has abandoned the ship.
Almost everyone believes you need drugs and that is why it is tolerated. No wonder bodybuilding remains a sport that is frowned upon and is a cult enterprise.
Bob Chick officially killed this sport today on Getbig.
No Vince ,you are NOT the last guy that thinks the extreme drug use ship has gone over the falls ( I agree with you on that). Bob is not guilty of killing the sport of pro bodybuilding. He states the current reality of the situation.
Most guys like us are NOT part of the hardcore scene. It appears they know what health and legal risks thay are taking. It also appears to be true that a lot of the fans demand to see drugged up freaks to buy a ticket.
If more fans were like us , the IFBB would drug test and be thrilled the fans continued to support the shows.
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Your posts are beyond stupidity ::)
hi Starky.............."have a nice day........ take steroids"
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I know what he meant...and my answer still stands.
You can be talented and steroid free in the NFL as well, but you'll probably have to be taking something in order to have a shot and get there in the first place....why do you think the use starts in H.S.? The lure of a scholarship, then signing into the pro's, then big money contracts...
Anyone can be a successful pro in the IFBB, all you have to do is display a physique thats better than everyone else...how anyone achieves that is up to them, IMO.
Chick, you're makin an ass out of yourself now. For someone who has carried himself as an educated man
on these boards, these quotes of airheaded ness makes me cringe.
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Since this topic will never die, or be resolved, here's my take:
Drugs are here to stay. People in the right places are making plenty of cash...promoters, supp companies. Even 'some' atheletes.
To them, there's nothing wrong with the equation.
And it all comes down to cash. Nobody will care about bodybuilding once the cashflow stops. Think about it...even the supplement industry, where there is NO regulation. You don't have to prove a damn thing, you just have to market it properly and make the cash...until your product sells poorly, then you start the whole damn process again.
Listen to Serge Nubret on PBW....he took NO supplements, like protein. Steroids, I'm sure he did just like the rest. But the MINDSET of the guys back then was to TRAIN hard, eat hard and compete.
That formula worked for during the 70's....you had guys with superior genetics winning titles. But there are SO FEW guys who can compete at that level due to their genetics, that unless you had something that allows ANYBODY to compete, you'd still have five guys at the Mr O contest and supplement and magazine companies wouldn't be where they are now.
It's all business...and that's what's truly ruining bodybuilding.
Check out CURLING...many people love that game (sport, whatever). They get NO money from winning world titles, but people watch it, follow it, and it gets national television coverage...and you can SEE the passion their have for the game.
Right now, CURLING has a bigger following than pro bodybuilding. That's sad, but very telling: mainstream success doesn't mean jack unless you've got something worth competing for.
Bodybuilding won't be mainstream again until you get another Arnold...which doesn't look likely. The closest I see is Phil Heath....there's a guy who LOVES bodybuilding, and doesn't look or talk like a guy who's on death row two weeks before a contest!!!
The golden eras of ANY sport 'happen' because you get a guy with CHARISMA to bring new blood into the sport.
It's true for basketball (Jordan), hockey (Gretzky, Crosby) and golf (Woods). The only thing about bodybuilding is that for you to even CONSIDER becoming great, you must break the law.
And most smart people never bother doing that, because they know they don't have the genetics to beat someone like Phil Heath, even with ALL the drugs in the world.
At the end of the day, either you choose to like bodybuilding or you don't. Don't expect the system to change as long as you fund and take part in the status quo.
And Chick...I seriously doubt that 10 people attend the natural shows. FAME holds many contests up in Canada and the USA and they PACK auditoriums...and the competitors are (as much as can be proven thus far) natural trainers.
If only the NPC put a lil more emphasis on the natural shows...THAT'S what would turn this trend around, as well. They'll NEVER do it though because there's no money in it. Simple.
Thanks for the comments, though. Nice to hear some intelligent comments for a change on this topic.
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I think I know enough to build up big enough to come close to what they have. Wouldn't take much to build bigger calves than most of them! I guess I am the last guy who believes this because everyone else has abandoned the ship.
Bob Chick officially killed this sport today on Getbig.
Crazy Galilean self-righteousness here, Vince.
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Since this topic will never die, or be resolved, here's my take:
Drugs are here to stay. People in the right places are making plenty of cash...promoters, supp companies. Even 'some' atheletes.
To them, there's nothing wrong with the equation.
And it all comes down to cash. Nobody will care about bodybuilding once the cashflow stops. Think about it...even the supplement industry, where there is NO regulation. You don't have to prove a damn thing, you just have to market it properly and make the cash...until your product sells poorly, then you start the whole damn process again.
Listen to Serge Nubret on PBW....he took NO supplements, like protein. Steroids, I'm sure he did just like the rest. But the MINDSET of the guys back then was to TRAIN hard, eat hard and compete.
That formula worked for during the 70's....you had guys with superior genetics winning titles. But there are SO FEW guys who can compete at that level due to their genetics, that unless you had something that allows ANYBODY to compete, you'd still have five guys at the Mr O contest and supplement and magazine companies wouldn't be where they are now.
It's all business...and that's what's truly ruining bodybuilding.
Check out CURLING...many people love that game (sport, whatever). They get NO money from winning world titles, but people watch it, follow it, and it gets national television coverage...and you can SEE the passion their have for the game.
Right now, CURLING has a bigger following than pro bodybuilding. That's sad, but very telling: mainstream success doesn't mean jack unless you've got something worth competing for.
Bodybuilding won't be mainstream again until you get another Arnold...which doesn't look likely. The closest I see is Phil Heath....there's a guy who LOVES bodybuilding, and doesn't look or talk like a guy who's on death row two weeks before a contest!!!
The golden eras of ANY sport 'happen' because you get a guy with CHARISMA to bring new blood into the sport.
It's true for basketball (Jordan), hockey (Gretzky, Crosby) and golf (Woods). The only thing about bodybuilding is that for you to even CONSIDER becoming great, you must break the law.
And most smart people never bother doing that, because they know they don't have the genetics to beat someone like Phil Heath, even with ALL the drugs in the world.
At the end of the day, either you choose to like bodybuilding or you don't. Don't expect the system to change as long as you fund and take part in the status quo.
And Chick...I seriously doubt that 10 people attend the natural shows. FAME holds many contests up in Canada and the USA and they PACK auditoriums...and the competitors are (as much as can be proven thus far) natural trainers.
If only the NPC put a lil more emphasis on the natural shows...THAT'S what would turn this trend around, as well. They'll NEVER do it though because there's no money in it. Simple.
Thanks for the comments, though. Nice to hear some intelligent comments for a change on this topic.
Great post and I hope EVERYONE on get big reads it.
I know what you mean about lack of coverage and $$ in natural shows. I went to the Musclemania Universe and Fitness comp 4 years ago in Miami. I expected THAT to be a big show and it was in terms of bodybuilders and fitness babes on stage. The audiance was made up of no more than 100 people plus those that were in the show.
Frank Zane is my ideal MR Olympia and I was always a fan the Bob Paris physique.I have always viewed bodybuilding as performing art more than a muscleman exhibit. Thus, I know I am different than many in the hardcore crowd.
On that note, the posing routines of Kai Greene are more like what I prefer to see.
Unlike some , I see no point in "calling out " some individual pro on his drug use. They are all in the same boat and why should a fan hassle those he buys a ticket to see on stage.
The bottom line for me, after the dust clears, is that big bodybuilding contests are a lot of fun to attend.
Drug use is a "policy issue", rather than a "personal issue" for me.
Thanks again for a great post, I may not agree with 100% of your ideas, but I enjoyed reading them.
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When young kids 'know' that the pros use steroids then that is the end of bodybuilding because everyone knows that is cheating. Nothing has changed in all these years. Finally, the public and kids have an excuse to reject bodybuilding as an healthy activity because it is lunacy to use those drugs like the pros do. Thus, why should anyone admire or respect those who use the now illegal drugs? That is the bottom line and we cannot gain acceptance for bodybuilding while the top guys are abusing steroids and goodness knows what else they are doing. If you want to see the reaction to steroid use then look at the women bodybuilders who are pros. No thanks. In the old days I admired women with muscles. How things change. Now when I see those fake boobs, lined faces and bizarre look I cringe.
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When young kids 'know' that the pros use steroids then that is the end of bodybuilding because everyone knows that is cheating. Nothing has changed in all these years. Finally, the public and kids have an excuse to reject bodybuilding as an healthy activity because it is lunacy to use those drugs like the pros do. Thus, why should anyone admire or respect those who use the now illegal drugs? That is the bottom line and we cannot gain acceptance for bodybuilding while the top guys are abusing steroids and goodness knows what else they are doing. If you want to see the reaction to steroid use then look at the women bodybuilders who are pros. No thanks. In the old days I admired women with muscles. How things change. Now when I see those fake boobs, lined faces and bizarre look I cringe.
Isn't it time for you to go outside and play for a little bit, or at least get some bandages for your fingers from banging the keys so hard...
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Since this topic will never die, or be resolved, here's my take:
Drugs are here to stay. People in the right places are making plenty of cash...promoters, supp companies. Even 'some' atheletes.
To them, there's nothing wrong with the equation.
And it all comes down to cash. Nobody will care about bodybuilding once the cashflow stops. Think about it...even the supplement industry, where there is NO regulation. You don't have to prove a damn thing, you just have to market it properly and make the cash...until your product sells poorly, then you start the whole damn process again.
Listen to Serge Nubret on PBW....he took NO supplements, like protein. Steroids, I'm sure he did just like the rest. But the MINDSET of the guys back then was to TRAIN hard, eat hard and compete.
That formula worked for during the 70's....you had guys with superior genetics winning titles. But there are SO FEW guys who can compete at that level due to their genetics, that unless you had something that allows ANYBODY to compete, you'd still have five guys at the Mr O contest and supplement and magazine companies wouldn't be where they are now.
It's all business...and that's what's truly ruining bodybuilding.
Check out CURLING...many people love that game (sport, whatever). They get NO money from winning world titles, but people watch it, follow it, and it gets national television coverage...and you can SEE the passion their have for the game.
Right now, CURLING has a bigger following than pro bodybuilding. That's sad, but very telling: mainstream success doesn't mean jack unless you've got something worth competing for.
Bodybuilding won't be mainstream again until you get another Arnold...which doesn't look likely. The closest I see is Phil Heath....there's a guy who LOVES bodybuilding, and doesn't look or talk like a guy who's on death row two weeks before a contest!!!
The golden eras of ANY sport 'happen' because you get a guy with CHARISMA to bring new blood into the sport.
It's true for basketball (Jordan), hockey (Gretzky, Crosby) and golf (Woods). The only thing about bodybuilding is that for you to even CONSIDER becoming great, you must break the law.
And most smart people never bother doing that, because they know they don't have the genetics to beat someone like Phil Heath, even with ALL the drugs in the world.
At the end of the day, either you choose to like bodybuilding or you don't. Don't expect the system to change as long as you fund and take part in the status quo.
And Chick...I seriously doubt that 10 people attend the natural shows. FAME holds many contests up in Canada and the USA and they PACK auditoriums...and the competitors are (as much as can be proven thus far) natural trainers.
If only the NPC put a lil more emphasis on the natural shows...THAT'S what would turn this trend around, as well. They'll NEVER do it though because there's no money in it. Simple.
Thanks for the comments, though. Nice to hear some intelligent comments for a change on this topic.
Keep in mind, my friend...bodybuilding was NEVER mainstream...not back in the 70's and not now. Arnold et all, were the "freaks" of THEIR time...the regular guy could no more relate to that look than to the look of Dexter Jaxson, or Troy Alves...
BB back then was an enigma, something new to behold...especially when the women started BBing.
FAME does do well in attendance....because of the FIGURE/ Modeling contests..not the BB. Just like 50% or more of the competitors in pretty much any NPC show is made up of figure girls...do yourself a favor and attend a natural ro show, etc, that DOESN'T have and bikini/ figure contest attached....you believe me then.
Other than that...very well said.
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When young kids 'know' that the pros use steroids then that is the end of bodybuilding because everyone knows that is cheating. Nothing has changed in all these years. Finally, the public and kids have an excuse to reject bodybuilding as an healthy activity because it is lunacy to use those drugs like the pros do. Thus, why should anyone admire or respect those who use the now illegal drugs? That is the bottom line and we cannot gain acceptance for bodybuilding while the top guys are abusing steroids and goodness knows what else they are doing. If you want to see the reaction to steroid use then look at the women bodybuilders who are pros. No thanks. In the old days I admired women with muscles. How things change. Now when I see those fake boobs, lined faces and bizarre look I cringe.
Got news for you Basile...I was once one of those "young kids" aspiring to be a pro in the 1970's....and I knew they were using steroids, EVERYONE knew steroids were involved. Check out any of the old Muscle Builder issues, they even had columns (like Gyrmkowski's) which were devoted to talk of steroids....this was WELL beofore Al Gore invented the internet :)
Was it accepted or better when they were LESS illegal? You didn't seem to have any problem taking steroids back then...there would be just as much "acceptance" if al shows were tested...or the physiques looked like yours circa 1970...no more, no less.
Bodybuilding is what it is because it's NOT a mainstream sport...not because of the drug usage. There's just as much usage in the NFL.
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Why is a thoughtful reply with no threats or emotion considered a meltdown? hehehehe.
Look, if you don't agree with my topic argue the pt.
In all honesty you sound fairly dumb, juvinille and silly when you make ad naseum lame silly replys to me and posts like mine. You want GET BIg to be some wacky silly JR HS place and I don't fit in.
Well too bad, I am not going away, so deal with it chucko Hehe
I staked my get big calim long ago and you idiots are not driving me off it.
Ya gonna have to deal with me or ignore me.
Thanks for playing, Howard
haha
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You're riding a dead horse, Bob, and you know it. Get off now before it takes you down with it.
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You're riding a dead horse, Bob, and you know it. Get off now before it takes you down with it.
Guess this "dead horse" pays pretty well...it's taking me down allright...all the way to the bank.
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Thanks, Bob, for self-owning yourself. Bottom line is you make money out of what you do so that is why you don't want to change anything. What a niche you have made for yourself. King of the pros. The voice and face of bodybuilding.
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Got news for you Basile...I was once one of those "young kids" aspiring to be a pro in the 1970's....and I knew they were using steroids, EVERYONE knew steroids were involved. Check out any of the old Muscle Builder issues, they even had columns (like Gyrmkowski's) which were devoted to talk of steroids....this was WELL beofore Al Gore invented the internet :)
Was it accepted or better when they were LESS illegal? You didn't seem to have any problem taking steroids back then...there would be just as much "acceptance" if al shows were tested...or the physiques looked like yours circa 1970...no more, no less.
Bodybuilding is what it is because it's NOT a mainstream sport...not because of the drug usage. There's just as much usage in the NFL.
Hmmm, I knew about this "steroid thing" as well shortly after I got serious with bodybuilding contests.
As EVERYONE here knows ALREADY, that issue was tough for me to accept. I dabbled into for 3 yrs ( 83-86)and made my shot to "go for the pros" and never got that close.
I honestly didn't think I was all that great a bodybuilder anyway.
I went into another stable career path, teaching chemistry and physics and was glad I did.
Down deep I really admire old school guys like Vince that won a big title like Mr Canada , back in the day.
At the same time I respect what Bob has down and his 13 yr "never say die" saga to win the USA and turn pro.
I consider bodybuilding more like performing art than a muscle show, so right there I am really different anyway LOL
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Thanks, Bob, for self-owning yourself. Bottom line is you make money out of what you do so that is why you don't want to change anything. What a niche you have made for yourself. King of the pros. The voice and face of bodybuilding.
::)
The athlete's representative doesn't pay anything, dumbass. Chick gets no compensation whatsoever.
Even if he was doing a poor job which he isn't, its certainly better than complaining about issues and not doing a damn thing.
BTW, in case you've forgotten, you're not a pro bodybuilder so it doesn't even concern you anyway
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the NPC ended AAU bodybuilding?? and you wonder why people call you Manion's lapdog.
AAU bodybuilding ended because of threat of drug testing law suits, and general mis-managment.
by your logic, everyone in the AAU went to the NPC. not true.
the NPC's drug testing (much like the IFBB's) is a joke.
Much to your dismay, Natural organinzations have more than 10 people in attendance.
I see you like to exaggerate the attendance of the olympia. there were more like 7000 in attendance, not 10,000.
I appreciate your letter, Howie...no need for apologies for having beliefs that others may or may not share. You're a true fan of the sport in every sense of the word.
I don't believe BB will ever have to go through the witchhunting thats going on in pro Baseball due to the simple fact that we aren't even on the radar screen when it comes to money and interest...
It wasn't drug testing, etc that ended the AAU, it was the NPC that ended them....case and point: the NPC has not only endured, but grown in every aspect over the years having more shows and members than at any point in it's history.
Your own statement kind of answers itself:
"In is my strong belief that NO pro or top amatuer athlete should have to risk breaking the law just to compete fairly. "
No pro or top amateur HAS to risk breaking the law, nor do thay HAVE to compete unfairly. They can choose to compete in the drug tested shows, natural organizations...ensuring they are on equal par with others that share the same mindset.
At the end of the day, it the fans that dictate what level of competition they want to support....and they have spoken loudly....not just in BB, but every sport...they want bigger, stronger, faster, and freakier...thats why there were 10,000 people at the Olympia, and 10 people at the last natural show.
It's not like the athletes that compete are exactly chomping at the bit rallying for drug testing, either....it is what it is.
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I am a professional bodybuilder because I own a gym. That was the NABBA test. Those pro cards are lame and make bodybuilder a Pavlov sport.
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the NPC ended AAU bodybuilding?? and you wonder why people call you Manion's lapdog.
AAU bodybuilding ended because of threat of drug testing law suits, and general mis-managment.
by your logic, everyone in the AAU went to the NPC. not true.
the NPC's drug testing (much like the IFBB's) is a joke.
Much to your dismay, Natural organinzations have more than 10 people in attendance.
I see you like to exaggerate the attendance of the olympia. there were more like 7000 in attendance, not 10,000.
BOTH the increased status of the NPC in 1980's along with the Charles Durr law suit ended the AAU physique shows and Mr America over a decade ago.
The AAU had already started too fade long before the law suit that nailed it shut in the mid 90's
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BOTH the increased status of the NPC in 1980's along with the Charles Durr law suit ended the AAU physique shows and Mr America over a decade ago.
The AAU had already started too fade long before the law suit that nailed it shut in the mid 90's
THank you Howie,..beat me to the punch.
The AAU was dead LONG before any lawsuits, etc....
Ironically, it was the drug testing and subsequent results that led to the Charles Durr lawsuit, etc....when they DIDN'T test, they had few if any problems..lol.
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I am a professional bodybuilder because I own a gym. That was the NABBA test. Those pro cards are lame and make bodybuilder a Pavlov sport.
LOL...kind of sums up what anyone thinks of a NABBA pro card, doesn't it?
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The IOC would give IFBB Pros the best Fukin they ever had.50lb lighter and possible less health problems leading to a little longer life.The only good thing that could come from that is the younger guys would have an easier playing field competing instead of Bobs comments Abuse Drugs to compete as a Pro or RETIRE.FFS.What a great Fukin sport.
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The IOC would give IFBB Pros the best Fukin they ever had.50lb lighter and possible less health problems leading to a little longer life.The only good thing that could come from that is the younger guys would have an easier playing field competing instead of Bobs comments Abuse Drugs to compete as a Pro or RETIRE.FFS.What a great Fukin sport.
what pros who have competed over the last 10 years have died of heart problems, Meltdown? besides Don Youngblood who had other problems.
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THank you Howie,..beat me to the punch.
The AAU was dead LONG before any lawsuits, etc....
Ironically, it was the drug testing and subsequent results that led to the Charles Durr lawsuit, etc....when they DIDN'T test, they had few if any problems..lol.
Things worked better when it was the AAU drug tested Mr USA and Untested Mr America.
I was on the AAU America Comm, and voted to test the America along with a majority of others there in Louisville at our national meeting. Chairmen Ted Karnezis blew the testing due to failure to follow testing procdures to the letter.
I offered to come to the America that yr ( the yr Durr won and tested postive ), NOT judge and just oversee the drug testing. He blew it off and I simply told him , if he didn't want me, no biggy, just get somebody who knows the procedures and do it right. Ted was good guy, but if you drug test, you BETTER do it right or don't do it at all.
Mainion had the right idea with the tested Team U natural nationals and the rest of the reg nationals.
Give athletes a choice is my motto. The only trouble is that the GOV wants to tell everyone what they can put in their bodies. I wish this was NOT the law, it is pretty lame in my libertarian eyes .
Oh well I gotta train , see ya Howard
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Squad it's not a death question we all Fukin Die it's the associated problems,these guys don't even have a cock or balls that work T3 for life as the thyroid shuts down HRTs for life as the balls shut down Insulin for life as the pancreas shuts the Fuk down.Now all that shit and for what.It's not death it's all the other shit the body has to live with.No Balls and a cock that doesn't work FUK THAT.Could you imagine sweet pussy laying beside you and your cock doesn't work now that is a true DEATH.
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Squad it's not a death question we all Fukin Die it's the associated problems,these guys don't even have a cock or balls that work T3 for life as the thyroid shuts down HRTs for life as the balls shut down Insulin for life as the pancreas shuts the Fuk down.Now all that shit and for what.It's not death it's all the other shit the body has to live with.No Balls and a cock that doesn't work FUK THAT.Could you imagine sweet pussy laying beside you and your cock doesn't work now that is a true DEATH.
hahahahaa, how the fucck do you know that their "equipment" doesn't work? have you seen some of the pros wives and girlfriends? do you think these girls would marry or get involved with a dude who couldn't fucck them? did you see the hot little piece of ass Ronnie married? granted pros take a lot of shit but seems to me you'd hear of these guys dropping like flies if this shit was killing people.
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Ask GH15 dude will tell it like it is.I am sure some are OK but they still have a lifetime of use just to function as a normal person.What do you think the Feds got Hide for apart from gear the charge was to do with Viagra now if the cock and balls work why so much cock pump drug.Hmmmmmmmmmmm????.
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Chick is Hide still an IFBB Pro??I think in the Rules it says something about Banned substances Not sure if criminal conviction is mentioned. ::)
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Chick is Hide still an IFBB Pro??I think in the Rules it says something about Banned substances Not sure if criminal conviction is mentioned. ::)
Not sure if he's applied for a card for 2008...That said, all charges were dropped.
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Chick if ALL charges were dropped and dude is innocent of all charges how come they put him on a plane outa here.Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmm.FFS innocent but DEPORTED.hahahahah almost as good a joke as those IFBB Drug Rules. ;D
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Chick if ALL charges were dropped and dude is innocent of all charges how come they put him on a plane outa here.Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmm.FFS innocent but DEPORTED.hahahahah almost as good a joke as those IFBB Drug Rules. ;D
Because the charges that were brought up (and subsequently dropped) were US court charges...he still had to answer to Japan. This is common with people who are not US citizens...
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So was it all dropped in Japan and I guess he will be back in a couple of weeks Esp now he is innocent.Viagra is a Helluva Drug. ::)
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So was it all dropped in Japan and I guess he will be back in a couple of weeks Esp now he is innocent.Viagra is a Helluva Drug. ::)
Go back and listen to the interview we did with Hide on PBW a few weeks ago...he addresses those very questions.
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Because the charges that were brought up (and subsequently dropped) were US court charges...he still had to answer to Japan. This is common with people who are not US citizens...
Yo chic, you are a cool dude
i love you man
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At least he knows he will never be tested for Drugs as an IFBB Pro unlike the airport customs guys.Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmThey check everyone. ::)
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I am a professional bodybuilder because I own a gym. That was the NABBA test. Those pro cards are lame and make bodybuilder a Pavlov sport.
That's why the IFBB is the top dog. You have to EARN YOUR PRO CARD. Even the WNBF wouldn't resort to B.S. like that. Your pro card is as worthless as Jack London's. Whether you like him or not, Chick earned his pro card the true and right way.
Owning a gym makes you a professional......oh boy ::)
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this doesn't quite address your ridiculous claim that the npc ended the aau.
Newsflash for you bob - There are many amateur natural organizations in the USA, outside of manions empire.
THank you Howie,..beat me to the punch.
The AAU was dead LONG before any lawsuits, etc....
Ironically, it was the drug testing and subsequent results that led to the Charles Durr lawsuit, etc....when they DIDN'T test, they had few if any problems..lol.
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this doesn't quite address your ridiculous claim that the npc ended the aau.
Newsflash for you bob - There are many amateur natural organizations in the USA, outside of manions empire.
Why do you believe it to be ridiculous?
I was there. I was competing throughout the whole thing...there was no question to anyone in the industry that the NPC just took over.
No one said there weren'tnatural orgs outside of the NPC....whats that got to do with anything?
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I was also there.
The aau died a slow death for sure, but to say that the NPC took over is simply incorrect.
If the NPC truly "took over" as you say, then they would have rights to the Mr. America title, which they do not.
Why do you believe it to be ridiculous?
I was there. I was competing throughout the whole thing...there was no question to anyone in the industry that the NPC just took over.
No one said there weren'tnatural orgs outside of the NPC....whats that got to do with anything?
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I was also there.
The aau died a slow death for sure, but to say that the NPC took over is simply incorrect.
If the NPC truly "took over" as you say, then they would have rights to the Mr. America title, which they do not.
wow.....
I didn't mean they "literally" took over...thought that was fairly obvious
that said...the funny part was they went to court over the rights to the names, and in the end...it didn't matter (or help the AAU)
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I was also there.
The aau died a slow death for sure, but to say that the NPC took over is simply incorrect.
If the NPC truly "took over" as you say, then they would have rights to the Mr. America title, which they do not.
I was very active in the AAU bodybuilding years ago ( judge, bodybuilder, promoter, etc) . I loved their format with the ht classes and the titles with the original Mr names , like Mr Florida or Mr USA or Mr America, etc.
The NPC under Jim Manion began to flourish in the early 80's as the AAU stared to fade.
The NPC had the path to the IFBB pros, the media coverage and more $$$ to back it.
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Hey, Melvin, glad I could give you a laugh. The NABBA 'professional' rule was quite silly. Anyone who has owned a gym knows it is quite hard to find the time and motivation to train when you are around a gym all day.
What I dislike is the way those pro cards are handed out. Usually the condidates have to please some official and so the tail wagging begins and never stops.
I doubt we will be seeing Melvin in any pro show soon!
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manion couldn't get his paws on those prestious aau titles
hell, he's even lost the NOC title.
I was very active in the AAU bodybuilding years ago ( judge, bodybuilder, promoter, etc) . I loved their format with the ht classes and the titles with the original Mr names , like Mr Florida or Mr USA or Mr America, etc.
The NPC under Jim Manion began to flourish in the early 80's as the AAU stared to fade.
The NPC had the path to the IFBB pros, the media coverage and more $$$ to back it.
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Wayne took the Money and the NOC and left them the IFBB in the shit cancelling shows everywhere.
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Bob why did Prize Money fall in the IFBB Pro shows when Wayne left?????. ::)
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Bob why did Prize Money fall in the IFBB Pro shows when Wayne left?????. ::)
Depends on what show you're talking about...The NOC was his, his sponsors, etc. The Olympia is bigger than it ever was when Wayne was promoting it...
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Depends on what show you're talking about...The NOC was his, his sponsors, etc. The Olympia is bigger than it ever was when Wayne was promoting it...
Ummm, the Orleans is a CHEAP hotel and the audience, even at the night show is only a little over half full. Most of the Olympia is figure competitors. Sounds like it is doing great! :)
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Ummm, the Orleans is a CHEAP hotel and the audience, even at the night show is only a little over half full. Most of the Olympia is figure competitors. Sounds like it is doing great! :)
Ummm, the Orleans hotel IS a cheap hotel, the Orleans ARENA, where the Olympia is held is by no means cheap...obviously, you weren't there so I won't waste my time on the place being "half full"....
The majority of the competitors are women, as they have figure, fitness, and FBB....which only lends to more fans attending. There are no more, or less male competitors than when Wayne was promoting...averages between 20-25.
Great observations, though.....
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Ummm, the Orleans hotel IS a cheap hotel, the Orleans ARENA, where the Olympia is held is by no means cheap...obviously, you weren't there so I won't waste my time on the place being "half full"....
The majority of the competitors are women, as they have figure, fitness, and FBB....which only lends to more fans attending. There are no more, or less male competitors than when Wayne was promoting...averages between 20-25.
Great observations, though.....
Don't believe this garbage. And make sure you get to the night show like 1 hour late otherwise you'll be forced sit through all the figure and women's bb stuff. The expo is the best part because you can meet all the pros and take tons of pic with fitness hotties. Oh, and they give you HUGE bags to fill up with supplements. It is seriously like Halloween for adults at the EXPO.
The Olympia itself, besides being already decided before it begins, is really poorly done and almost no one is there. Oh, if you do be sure get super close seats if you expect to see details because....the Orleans arena is so cheap the huge monitor can't display ANY detail. It must have been made in the early 1990's. Horrible.