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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: tbombz on February 18, 2012, 03:39:19 PM

Title: massive overtraining
Post by: tbombz on February 18, 2012, 03:39:19 PM
guys lately im starting to think we all overtrain the fuck out of ourselves. ive been feeling extremely lethargic and remaining sore for quite some time after my workouts, despite being on gear and eating high protien/high calories and only training every other day with very little volume, not going to failue.   but the thing is im making better progress than normal. my muscles are responding very nicely to the extra rest. in the past 2 weeks i think ive worked out 4 times.  albeit, my form is much better than it ever has been, going extremely slow on the negative portion of all my lifts, keeping form extremely tight, no momentum or ancillary muscles coming into play during the concentric phase but going hard and strong.

i think , at leats personally, less is more, so long as what is done is done correctly.

anyone else feel this way
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: chaos on February 18, 2012, 04:21:54 PM
I've been doing minimialistic, basic workouts for quite awhile.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: Yev33 on February 18, 2012, 04:29:24 PM
I have switched to training 3 days a week in the last 4 months of last year and loved it.  Went back to four days at the beginning of the year, but switched back to three after several weeks when I noticed that the extra day really didn't benefit me in any way.

I think sometimes people mistake a lack of progress for overtraining though. Especially at the intermediate level, people who made the beginner gains and now have to have a plan instead of just getting into the gym and lifting whatever they feel like that day.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: B_B_C on February 18, 2012, 04:34:29 PM
except, perhaps money and (extremly rarely) sex
quality always thrumps quantity
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: flinstones1 on February 18, 2012, 11:30:16 PM
This is my training routine

Monday- chest/biceps
Tuesday- off
Wedsday- shoulders/triceps
thursday- off
Friday- back/biceps
Saturday leg day

..you grow OUT OF THE GYM! ;D

Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: WOOO on February 19, 2012, 03:11:30 AM
i'm currently focused on dropping weight so i'm on the elliptical at least 1.5hrs per day... usually over 2hrs/day

i still lift in a similar fashion but i only lift for 35-40 minutes, high intensity, heavy weight... except for legs... due to the cardio requirements i am only doing bodyweight movements (very high reps) and I stretch everything, every night...

dropping a solid 3lbs per week right now.... no fuss, no muss
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: hrspwr on February 19, 2012, 06:48:42 AM
I have overtrained with running and cardio worse than with weight lifting.

 I need to train hardest in the kitchen to change my body, truth.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: WOOO on February 19, 2012, 06:56:36 AM
I have overtrained with running and cardio worse than with weight lifting.

I need to train hardest in the kitchen to change my body, truth.

amen
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: funk51 on February 19, 2012, 08:00:44 AM
 :o
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: TrapsMcLats on February 19, 2012, 10:15:07 AM
I think we waste a lot of time/energy/recovery doing isolation exercises.  I've cut down to mostly compound/olympic lifts and find I'm making solid progress with this split:

Monday:

clean and press
variation of rows
variation of shoulder press
variation of pullups
2 sets of curs 

tuesday:

squats
leg curls
leg extensions
10 sets of a calf movement

wednesday:

variation barbell press
variation db press
dips/cg bench/flyes...whatever

thurs:

snatch
variation pullups
cleans
bicep movement

friday:

leg press
 still legged deads
calf movement

sat:

pyramid up to heavy (3-4 reps) bench
tricep movement

Some might even consider this too much, but I've found that doing low sets of intense (not necessarily to failure, there's a difference) compound movements works best for me.  back in the day i used to do 4 sets of 4 different movements for each body part. Great workouts if you're on gear, but for a natty like me, just keep it basic.

Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: Yev33 on February 19, 2012, 02:38:17 PM
Ive been doing 3 times a week full body and I love it.

Monday
Squats
Tricep dips
Neutral grip pull ups
Incline crunches

Thursday
Weighted pull ups
Standing db shoulder press
Good mornings
Ab leg raises

Saturday
Incline bench
Reverse grip bb rows
 Single leg squats
Face pulls
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: tbombz on February 19, 2012, 03:21:38 PM
good to hear others feel the same was i do


heres what i do

day 1= chest shoulders arms
day 2= off
day 3= back and legs
day 4= off
repeat

chest= 2-3 sets inclince, 2-3 sets decline, 2-3 sets flat.
shoulders= 3-4 sets laterals, 2-3 sets presses
triceps= 3-4 sets pushdowns
biceps= 2-3 sets curls
back=  2-4 sets pulldowns, 2-3 sets pullovers, 2-3 sets shrugs, 3-4 sets rear delts
legs= 3-4 sets extensions, 2-3 sets hacks, 3-4 sets curls, 2-3 sets abduction, 2-3 sets adduction, 3-4 sets calves
abs= few sets every workout


never to failure, always very slow on the negative, always squeezing the muscle as hard as possible at peak contraction.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: Domthemilky on February 21, 2012, 03:34:21 AM
monday - push

wednesday - pull

friday - legs

still think this is the best split, plenty of time to recover and just do the basic barbell exercises maybe with a few machine exercises thrown in if needed. not need to complicate things and i stay away from failure, too hard on the nervous system if you go failure all the time.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: d0nny2600 on February 21, 2012, 05:32:11 AM
monday - push

wednesday - pull

friday - legs

still think this is the best split, plenty of time to recover and just do the basic barbell exercises maybe with a few machine exercises thrown in if needed. not need to complicate things and i stay away from failure, too hard on the nervous system if you go failure all the time.
Made my best progress with this split. Time to return to it.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: wes on February 21, 2012, 07:49:27 AM
Starting this week I`m gonna` do this for a while:

Day 1-quads,hams,calves

Day 2-chest,back/traps

Day 3-delts and arms


All basic compound exercises for the most part with a couple 'pump' sets at the end of each bodypart.

Gonna` throw abs and neck in there 1-2 X a week also,with possible cardio on the treadmill at home on off days.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: jpm101 on February 21, 2012, 07:49:42 AM
Take this for what's it's worth; I had done the push-pull thing for quite a while. Will do Push on Monday, Legs on Wed and Pull on Friday. Which allows three rest days between the upper body Push-Pull workouts during the week. Along with the normal two day rest on the weekends. As we all know, rest is one of the key building blocks in progressive training. Good Luck.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: jon cole on February 21, 2012, 12:16:45 PM
here's the training of jon cole (the real,not me), pretty basic, nothing fancy.

"WEEK ONE
Day 1 –Bench Press, medium heavy – 10, 8, 6, 5x5.
Full Squat, medium heavy – 10, 8, 6, 5x5.
Upright Rows – 5x8 adding weight with each set.
Standing Barbell Curls – 5x8.Calf Raises – 6x20, 2 sets with toes out, 2 with toes, 2 with toes straight.

Day 2 –Power Cleans – 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
Lying Triceps Presses – 5x8.Standing Barbell Curls – 5x8.
Incline Presses, heavy – 10, 8, 5x3.

Day 3 –Bench Press – same as Day 1.Full Squats, heavy – 10, 8, 5x3.Arm work same as Day 1.


WEEK TWO

Day 4 (second week)Front Squat, medium heavy – 10, 8, 6, 5x3.
Inclines, medium heavy – 10, 8, 5x5.
Curls – 5x8.Lying Triceps Presses – 5x8.Calf Raises – 6x20.

Day 5 –Deadlifts, heavy – 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
Bench Press, heavy – 10, 8, 5x3.
Standing Triceps Presses – 5x8.Barbell Curls – 5x8.

Day 6 –Full Squats, heavy – 10, 8, 6, 5x3.
Inclines, medium – 10, 8, 5x5.
Barbell Curls – 5x8.Upright Rows – 5x8.
Lying Triceps – 5x8.Calf Raises – 6x20."
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: Domthemilky on February 22, 2012, 03:42:24 AM
i strongly agree with doing all your pushing agree muscles in one workout. I think it was GH15 who said something about shoulders growing very little naturally without hormones so it seems pointless to give them a seperate day. I normally just do some side lateral raises strictly and then some presses behind the neck and thats it. I think the chest workouts generally hit shoulders pretty hard so no point in adding loads of exercises.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: local hero on February 23, 2012, 03:32:28 AM
i strongly agree with doing all your pushing agree muscles in one workout. I think it was GH15 who said something about shoulders growing very little naturally without hormones so it seems pointless to give them a seperate day. I normally just do some side lateral raises strictly and then some presses behind the neck and thats it. I think the chest workouts generally hit shoulders pretty hard so no point in adding loads of exercises.

 ::)
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: Domthemilky on February 23, 2012, 02:27:50 PM
he's right though, have you ever seen a natural who had any great shoulder development? the best you can hope for is a wide bone structure but eventhen you won't get that 3d look. seems pointless investing so much time in shoulders.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: Yev33 on February 23, 2012, 07:06:32 PM
he's right though, have you ever seen a natural who had any great shoulder development? the best you can hope for is a wide bone structure but eventhen you won't get that 3d look. seems pointless investing so much time in shoulders.

Thats bullshit, naturals can build shoulders just like any other bodypart.

I thought that my shoulders got stuck growthwise couple of years ago  then I started doing standing barbell presses. And as I got stronger on them my shoulders got bigger.

And the 3D look, most people have no idea how to hit their rear delts properly.

Way too many people on here lately have been on this drug bullshit, all of a sudden anyone that posts a pic with any kind of muscle tone is automatically assumed to have been running at least as gram a week.

It used to be real simple, you wanna compete and see how far you can go, then you're gonna have to turn to chemicals. If not, just train hard and enjoy your life.
Now any dickhead going on a vacation wants to know how much gh he should run.






Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: jpm101 on February 24, 2012, 07:52:21 AM
The qualities of GH15's statement may be highly questioned. Both his drug and exercise theories, holding little value or credit to either. Creative posting at it's worse. Making up stuff will always be proven wrong in the end.

Want  delts, than military press, push presses, one arm DB press, Press Behind the Neck, Hi-pulls, etc. Even DB lateral swings have their place. Chemical engineering need not be applied with any of these mass producing exercises, they stand alone by themselves..

Rear delts: reverse pec deck (elbows in line with the shoulders), BB/DB row (elbows out wide and in line with the shoulders, pulling the bar to the upper chest) , one arm reverse raises and even chins/pullups affect the rear delts. Most pulling type movements call upon the posterior delts. Good Luck.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: chaos on February 24, 2012, 09:09:16 AM
That's why I dig the training board...enough with the drug addict bullshit, bust your ass if you want size and strength!!!
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: _bruce_ on February 24, 2012, 09:24:50 AM
I've been training every day now for over a month and it works fine. Only thing I'm feeling is my right shoulder -> weightlifter's syndrome... cartilage and my back, ass and hams feel sore.
My body improved a bit and the lethargy is mainly in your head.
A week is like...

Normal
Light
Normal+
Light+
Normal++
Light++
Normal+++
.
.
.
...ambulance

where '+' equals !mini! weight increase - using single workout of squats, press, chins and post ab and lower back work.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: Yev33 on February 24, 2012, 02:16:44 PM
That's why I dig the training board...enough with the drug addict bullshit, bust your ass if you want size and strength!!!

X2
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: tbombz on February 24, 2012, 02:22:20 PM
ive always had good delts, probably my german genetics, best exerices for me have always been dumbell laterals, upright rows, and presses. presses not so much  for width but for thickness.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: buffbong on February 29, 2012, 07:24:38 AM
 Lower volume and more intensity is the way to go. Definatly agree with you Thombz. Sometimes you have to fight the urge from adding more sets. Once the intensity is high enough doing anymore will be very unappealing haha. I'm currently getting ready for my second pro show and following my four day routine without any added volume. With the adding posing,cardio,and few calories why would I on top fo that add sets.

Tuesday Chest,tris   
Wed      Back,calves and posing
Thurs.   Ab's and cardio
Fri.       Shoulders,bis, and cardio
Sat.      Legs and Posing
Sunday  Cardio
Monday Off

Chest/Tues                           
Incline Dumbell 10-8-8   
Flat dumbell     2x8
Dip's               2x8
Incline Flye's    2x8
 Tri's
Seated E-z bar ext 10-8
Lying dumbell ext    2x8-10

Back/Wed
Barbell deadlifts 10-8-8
Weighted pull ups 10-8-6
One arm dumbell rows 2x8
Dumbell pullover's   2x8
 Calve's
Seated calve raises 2x10
Standing calve raises 2x10
    Posing
Entire prejudging routine twice

Ab's,cardio/Thurs
Hanging leg raises 2x25
Decline crunches weighted 2x25
Bar twists       2x25
 Bike
Bike twenty minutes

Friday Shoulders,bis,cardio
Seated dumbell presses 10-8-6
Standing side raise's       2x10
Standing rear raise's       2x10
  Bi's
Standing dumbell curl's    2x6-8
E-z bar preacher curl's    1x6-8
Hammer wrist curl's         1x10
  Cardio
Brisk walking ten minutes

 Leg's,posing
Front barbell squat's 10-8-6
Walking dumbell lunge's 2x8
Stiff barbell deads  8-8-6
Dumbell step up's   2x10
 Posing
Entire prejudging two times
Free posing two times 

Cardio/Sun
Incline treadmill twenty minutes

 

Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: tbombz on February 29, 2012, 03:40:15 PM
cool. i pose everyday. i dont count that as a workout, though i probably should.

your a pro ? ifbb ?
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: buffbong on March 01, 2012, 06:45:21 AM
Nah bro Wnbf. Dude I definatly count it. Who needs isolation movements with hard posing haha I dont require alot of cardio to get in shape. I stay strict with the diet year round. Do you compete man?
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: Mothballs on March 10, 2012, 01:21:29 PM
I think most people off of drugs gain best training 3-4 days a week and splitting their body into upper/lower, fullbody, or movements like day one: deadlifts and asst movements, day 2: Bench press and asst movements, day 3: Squat and asst movements.

Split training, working each bodypart once per week training one body part/day usually only works for drug users.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: Domthemilky on March 11, 2012, 04:33:15 AM
ive always had good delts, probably my german genetics, best exerices for me have always been dumbell laterals, upright rows, and presses. presses not so much  for width but for thickness.

when u do ur laterals do you do them Dorian Yates style e.g. strict arms come down to the sides, palms always faced down or do you do them less strict e.g. lifting the palms up, more weight but less isolation on the lateral head?

I never got upright rows, Always felt like a retarded exercise and felt it in my biceps more than anything lol.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: magikusar on March 20, 2012, 02:45:00 AM
throw up some pics gents.  I wish some show would take same size guys and one do hit one do volume for 3 months and see who looks best at end..
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: epicmass on March 20, 2012, 04:05:34 AM
To summarise my earlier advices. Natural = HIT. AAS user = either HIT or something between HIT and volume if the person really must spend longer than necessary in the gym.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: oni on March 25, 2012, 12:16:14 AM
I doubt you're overtraining
I've been doing a high frequency routine for the past 3 months, lifting a max in the squat, push press and deadlift every day
I do not feel overtrained, I am not tired or fatigued, I am not sore either. In fact I feel very refreshed and energised and if I take an off day I am always itching to lift.

Everyone has an intuitive idea of what "recovery" means and how "hard work" relates to that, so I understand why people are skeptical -- I know I was when I first really considered the idea -- but in truth, I've always found the intuitive notions to be...well, not so intuitive. If you think about it (and I mean really think about it, without the lifetime of dogma interfering), there's really nothing outrageous about training hard once or even twice a day, every day. The "you can't do that!" response is more a matter of perspective and tradition than any real biological reason.

Daily training isn't a year-round thing for me as I have no reason to do it without end, but it remains a tool in my kit -- and more importantly, even when I'm not lifting daily, I still find that my mentality is no longer centered on the question "what can't I do?", which in my ever so humble opinion is far more important than the program or method you choose.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: keanu on March 31, 2012, 06:58:51 PM
It doesn't sound like you're overtraining. Maybe lifting heavy for more then 4-6 weeks at a time which will fry you. Slow negatives is one thing. I'd mix some quick positives in there. Your fast twitch fibers responsible for size can be activated through fast reps, or heavy weight. Problem is you can't lift heavy for too long or you'll stagnate quickly. Weight must be cycled. That is the reason why Mentzer's Heavy Duty failed (I actually consulted with Mike before he died and can write volumes about why his program was based more on economics and not science). Always going heavy. Guys would do well for a couple of months then go to crap on next to no volume, and in some cases only working out once a week, 2 exercises.

I use a modified Westside training program with less volume and intensity. It's what the top highschool and college guys in various sports use to try to go pro. It's what the pros use, and it is what the best powerlifters use. Why? It works. When there is big money on the line people use what works to get bigger faster, stronger. Results.
Title: Re: massive overtraining
Post by: andreisdaman on March 31, 2012, 09:52:40 PM
guys lately im starting to think we all overtrain the fuck out of ourselves. ive been feeling extremely lethargic and remaining sore for quite some time after my workouts, despite being on gear and eating high protien/high calories and only training every other day with very little volume, not going to failue.   but the thing is im making better progress than normal. my muscles are responding very nicely to the extra rest. in the past 2 weeks i think ive worked out 4 times.  albeit, my form is much better than it ever has been, going extremely slow on the negative portion of all my lifts, keeping form extremely tight, no momentum or ancillary muscles coming into play during the concentric phase but going hard and strong.

i think , at leats personally, less is more, so long as what is done is done correctly.

anyone else feel this way

I have found that this is absolutely true....used to work out hard daily...was fatigued all the time, was having erection problems here and there, felt strong as fuck, but had no stamina at all.....and slept a lot...hardly ever any morning wood..

started running more and now work out with weights only about four times a month....now I feel good, better stamina, nice erections....also eat lots more fruit and veggies..not as big as before but feel so much better and healthier..morning wood all the time now