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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The True Adonis on January 28, 2014, 03:22:49 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/snake-bite-89000-162515519.html
Snakebite victim charged $89,000 for 18-hour hospital stay
Dylan Stableford, Yahoo News
By Dylan Stableford, Yahoo News 6 hours ago Yahoo News
Laura and Eric Ferguson
.
View gallery
Laura and Eric Ferguson. (Courtesy Eric Ferguson)
A snakebite victim who was treated at a North Carolina hospital came away with more than just fang marks when he received an $89,227 bill for an 18-hour stay.
Eric Ferguson, 54, from Mooresville, N.C., was taking out the trash at his home last August when he was bitten on the foot by a snake. He drove himself to Lake Norman Regional Medical Center, where he was treated with anti-venom medicine.
According to his bill, the hospital charged $81,000 for a four-vial dose of the medication.
Shocked at the price tag, Ferguson told the Charlotte Observer he and his wife found the same vials online for retail prices as low as $750.
Ferguson, who is insured, said his care was "beyond phenomenal."
"It was just the sticker shock," he said.
View gallery
MD005166
A Southern Copperhead snake. (Photo by Joe McDonald/Corbis)
Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay.
The hospital defended its prices, saying it has to charge prices higher than retail because of the various discounts it is required to give insurers.
"We are required to give Medicare one level of discount from list price, Medicaid another, and private insurers negotiate for still others," officials told the newspaper. "If we did not start with the list prices we have, we would not end up with enough revenue to remain in operation."
The hospital added: "Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients."
The Fergusons' case is, of course, not unique. A 2013 cover story by Steven Brill in Time magazine ("Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us") detailed the "outrageous pricing and egregious profits" destroying the U.S. health care system, noting that Americans were expected to spend an estimated $2.8 trillion on health care last year.
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If he was a mexican he would have gotten it for free.....you voted for the guy don't blame me.
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no problemo, thats only 10 thousand hours of work at minimum wage, or uhm, 20 years trying to put away some spare money
so a snakebite treatment of 1 day costs more than a house in florida ;D
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Does Obamacare cover snakebites?
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His wife should have gone old school: make an "X" between the fang marks, and suck the venom out. Then wait it out. If he lived, he would have saved money. If he died, she'd get insurance money. So, at least one of them would make out.
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I`d file that hospital bill in the circular file,ie.,my trash can.
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If he was a mexican he would have gotten it for free.....you voted for the guy don't blame me.
Obamacare is basically the same thing we have always had, insurance companies at the forefront with a few changes such as people cannot be denied insurance. A miniscule improvement and not really an improvement. Republicans, such as yourself, want to do NOTHING. So yes, you and the Republicans are WORSE when it comes to healthcare.
Oh and I do blame people like you for screaming at the top of your lungs how "bad" true Universal Healthcare is. This is stupidity at a whole new level and your ilk are front and center to blame.
Obama, ideally, always said he wanted true Single Payer Healthcare, like the rest of the Civilized world has, but with a nation of morons, its not going to happen. So yes, you are to blame.
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Does Obamacare cover snakebites?
There really is no such thing as Obamacare. Its basically the same as I have noted above with a few minor changes that are actually improvements. (not that it will change anything much, still the same shit system Republicans LOVE)
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Obamacare doesn't prevent insurance companies from screwing over the public for profit.
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Single payer for 360 million people...run by this government? That shit works to a degree in very small countries. We're not Norway. You fix out of control law suits...guys like that assbag Edwards (lib dem) and a few other things and our system would work for us. Obamacare has made things worse and it hasn't all hit yet.
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Single payer for 360 million people...run by this government? That shit works to a degree in very small countries. We're not Norway. You fix out of control law suits...guys like that assbag Edwards (lib dem) and a few other things and our system would work for us. Obamacare has made things worse and it hasn't all hit yet.
comeon lol, it works in the whole of europe,or the eu.
500million ppl.
thats like saying democracy is no good for large population nations.lol
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Obamacare is basically the same thing we have always had, insurance companies at the forefront with a few changes such as people cannot be denied insurance. A miniscule improvement and not really an improvement. Republicans, such as yourself, want to do NOTHING. So yes, you and the Republicans are WORSE when it comes to healthcare.
Oh and I do blame people like you for screaming at the top of your lungs how "bad" true Universal Healthcare is. This is stupidity at a whole new level and your ilk are front and center to blame.
Obama, ideally, always said he wanted true Single Payer Healthcare, like the rest of the Civilized world has, but with a nation of morons, its not going to happen. So yes, you are to blame.
The fed government can't even get the website running properly and you expect them to handle a truly single payer system?!?!
imo, what this country really needs is either a repeal or a huge huge modification to medicare and medicaid since they are heavily responsible for driving the costs up for everyone.
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sounds like something that Obama should fix with an executive order
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Its all managed differently. We're not Europe..I'm not paying for the somebody who can't produce. The tax rates in various European countries are different. Funding is different and it certainly isn't a massive block of 500 million all in the same system.
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Single payer for 360 million people...run by this government? That shit works to a degree in very small countries. We're not Norway. You fix out of control law suits...guys like that assbag Edwards (lib dem) and a few other things and our system would work for us. Obamacare has made things worse and it hasn't all hit yet.
Uh, Medical error and misdiagnosis, iatrogenesis constitutes the third-leading cause of death in the United States. You need protection to sue and they aren`t sued enough. If they were, it wouldn`t be the third, (some studies put it at the leading cause of death) leading cause of death in America. Medical Lawsuits are a good thing.
Furthermore, I can pull a study that shows even if this were tightened, it would have zero bearing on current costs. Your reasoning is pure shit. Hope this helps.
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comeon lol, it works in the whole of europe,or the eu.
500million ppl.
thats like saying democracy is no good for large population nations.lol
X 1000000000000
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The fed government can't even get the website running properly and you expect them to handle a truly single payer system?!?!
imo, what this country really needs is either a repeal or a huge huge modification to medicare and medicaid since they are heavily responsible for driving the costs up for everyone.
Not true. Insurance companies at the forefront and the for profit system is the reason for costs going up.
Ask Galeniko how much he pays in medical bills.
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Uh, Medical error and misdiagnosis, iatrogenesis constitutes the third-leading cause of death in the United States. You need protection to sue and they aren`t sued enough. If they were, it wouldn`t be the third, (some studies put it at the leading cause of death) leading cause of death in America. Medical Lawsuits are a good thing.
Furthermore, I can pull a study that shows even if this were tightened, it would have zero bearing on current costs. Your reasoning is pure shit. Hope this helps.
I can can pull tons of the same thing saying your full of shit....I know you can cut and paste with the best of them. It comes down to simple math..we can't friggen afford it and because your messiah chooses to allow half the population to go untaxed and unproductive, things are only getting worse. I know your heart doesn't bleed for the huddled masses..ur just another full of shit lib douche.
That should help..idiot.
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I can can pull tons of the same thing saying your full of shit....I know you can cut and paste with the best of them. It comes down to simple math..we can't friggen afford it and because your messiah chooses to allow half the population to go untaxed and unproductive, things are only getting worse. I know your heart doesn't bleed for the huddled masses..ur just another full of shit lib douche.
That should help..idiot.
No you can`t. Do it. Let me see those "studies". Please give me a link. I would rather you copy and paste them than make up bullshit off the top of your head. Do you prefer making up bullshit of the top of your head instead of Sourced material? Why would you want to do that?
Hopefully you can post the studies before we all die.
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Not true. Insurance companies at the forefront and the for profit system is the reason for costs going up.
Ask Galeniko how much he pays in medical bills.
I know the insurance companies are to blame. Part of the reason (edit) is the government programs which the insurance companies abuse because they know the government will pony up the money.
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Its all managed differently. We're not Europe..I'm not paying for the somebody who can't produce. The tax rates in various European countries are different. Funding is different and it certainly isn't a massive block of 500 million all in the same system.
ROFLMAO says the man with tax payer funded free healthcare. LOLZERS!!!
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I know the insurance companies are to blame. Part of the blame is the government programs which the insurance companies abuse because they know the government will pony up the money.
they all are to blame, not just the insurance companies.
all are in on it.the govt, the pharma companies, the doctors,the insurances, the hospitals, everyone.
maybe the ones who deliver food to the hospitals arent, but yeah.
adam said it right, its an entire system, its no coincidence.
Not true. Insurance companies at the forefront and the for profit system is the reason for costs going up.
Ask Galeniko how much he pays in medical bills.
200usd monthly go, whether something happens or not, that fine by me,.if nothing happens, those 200 are used in afund and can help someone else i dont know i never met.who cares,the system as a whole im fine with.
the upcoming shoulder surgery will cost ,everything included, the hospital, anaestesist, the doc, the nurses, the rehab, itll be something close to 50-80k usd all things counted.
the gyno surgery was 15k usd+, not counting recovery meetings etc.
every day theres someone out there having heart surgery, cancer treatment etc, im happy to pay them my 200usd month.absolutely no problemo.
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ROFLMAO says the man with tax payer funded free healthcare. LOLZERS!!!
Yeah....except nothing is free. I pay taxes just like you do. Part of my job benefits is the heathcare and pension, otherwise good luck satisfying that Constitutional requirement. Besides..I've earned every penny. When I retire I'll pay just like everybody else..smaller maybe but just the same. I think we''ve had the same friggen waste of time thread on the politics board a million times...oddly you started this here instead. I'm not willing to be taxed at 37%...the average in Europe according to a Forbes article. I'm not willing give a single cent to anybody who sits on their ass and doesn't work. I'm not willing to put any faith in a government that can't manage the medical system it has now. You buy into this shit...u actually though Obama knew what he was doing, any argument on any subject after that fact is ridiculous.
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Yeah....except nothing is free. I pay taxes just like you do. Part of my job benefits is the heathcare and pension, otherwise good luck satisfying that Constitutional requirement. Besides..I've earned every penny. When I retire I'll pay just like everybody else..smaller maybe but just the same. I think we''ve had the same friggen waste of time thread on the politics board a million times...oddly you started this here instead. I'm not willing to be taxed at 37%...the average in Europe according to a Forbes article. I'm not willing give a single cent to anybody who sits on their ass and doesn't work. I'm not willing to put any faith in a government that can't manage the medical system it has now. You buy into this shit...u actually though Obama knew what he was doing, any argument on any subject after that fact is ridiculous.
The Republicans didn`t even want to do anything. That is even worse.
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Yeah....except nothing is free. I pay taxes just like you do. Part of my job benefits is the heathcare and pension, otherwise good luck satisfying that Constitutional requirement. Besides..I've earned every penny. When I retire I'll pay just like everybody else..smaller maybe but just the same. I think we''ve had the same friggen waste of time thread on the politics board a million times...oddly you started this here instead. I'm not willing to be taxed at 37%...the average in Europe according to a Forbes article. I'm not willing give a single cent to anybody who sits on their ass and doesn't work. I'm not willing to put any faith in a government that can't manage the medical system it has now. You buy into this shit...u actually though Obama knew what he was doing, any argument on any subject after that fact is ridiculous.
What do you think your tax rate is right now?
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The hospital added: "Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients
Translated: Illegal immigrants are sucking us dry.
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so the message here is that life's not fair, things cost too much, and eventually we all die from something...interesting. ..who would've guessed.
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Translated: Illegal immigrants are sucking us dry.
^^^^ Truth!
Illegals = Higher health insurance costs, higher auto insurance costs, higher homeowners insurance costs, higher taxes, etc.
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Translated: Illegal immigrants are sucking us dry.
tell that to your local gop representative haha and see what they gonna say
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so the message here is that life's not fair, things cost too much, and eventually we all die from something...interesting. ..who would've guessed.
Haha, yes, I could not have said it better myself. There are a few things that go into the cost of that snake bite anti-venom. R&D, administrative costs, overhead at the hospital, and all of the write offs from people who can't pay their bill. It's a microcosm of our tax payer system. There are some folks who work, and there are some that don't. So rates for certain things go up (i.e. taxes) to pay the differences. Do I think it is fair? Hell no, but some CEO of Anthem isn't going to give up his quarterly bonuses before some welfare shit bag gets a job. It's a stalemate between two groups, and the shitty thing is, most of the population gets stuck with the bill. Everyday life is filled with compromise, except when the government gets involved.
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Haha, yes, I could not have said it better myself. There are a few things that go into the cost of that snake bite anti-venom. R&D, administrative costs, overhead at the hospital, and all of the write offs from people who can't pay their bill. It's a microcosm of our tax payer system. There are some folks who work, and there are some that don't. So rates for certain things go up (i.e. taxes) to pay the differences. Do I think it is fair? Hell no, but some CEO of Anthem isn't going to give up his quarterly bonuses before some welfare shit bag gets a job. It's a stalemate between two groups, and the shitty thing is, most of the population gets stuck with the bill. Everyday life is filled with compromise, except when the government gets involved.
STFU , that bill can't be justified.
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STFU , that bill can't be justified.
EXACTLY. And this guy actually had Insurance.
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(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me2o2mjFNL1rb5rsao1_500.gif)
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Translated: Illegal immigrants are sucking us dry.
Not really.... they pay into social services without being able to use them. We're pimping them pretty good.
Also lol at people trying to rationalize that bill
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STFU , that bill can't be justified.
Eat a dick, you know how it can be justified? It gets paid.
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...
...medicare and medicaid ... are heavily responsible for driving the costs up for everyone.
No. Wrong.
Why Are American Health Care Costs So High?
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(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/09/30/house.floor.controversy/art.grayson.housetv.jpg)
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oh well atleast the "dath panels" arent brough up anymore
would be good to ask ayn rand about her opinion on the matter
:D :D
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"Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay."
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Single payer for 360 million people...run by this government? That shit works to a degree in very small countries. We're not Norway. You fix out of control law suits...guys like that assbag Edwards (lib dem) and a few other things and our system would work for us. Obamacare has made things worse and it hasn't all hit yet.
Hint = anytime you speak about "libs" or "dems" or "Obamacare" it's a pretty foregone conclusion that you know nothing of what you are talking about.
HTH
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By far the biggest factor in why US healthcare is so expensive compared to that in other countries is that we don't negotiate as aggressively as other countries do with healthcare providers, drug manufacturers, and medical device makers. Single payer would allow us to do that.
Anyway, here's a funny video that was on Reddit the other day:
In the US, the average cost of a hip replacement is $40,364- while the same operation in Spain costs an average of $7,371-. In other words, you could literally fly to Spain, get your hip replaced, live in Madrid for 2 years, learn Spanish, run with the bulls, get trampled and injured by the bulls, get your hip replaced again and then fly home all for less than the cost of a single hip replacement in the USA.
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"Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay."
And then they have to pay the rest.
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Not really.... they pay into social services without being able to use them. We're pimping them pretty good.
Also lol at people trying to rationalize that bill
get the fuck out of here with that shit
illegals cost billions a year
http://antonovich.com/children-of-illegal-aliens-in-los-angeles-county-cost-more-than-54-million-per-month/
maybe the LA county supervisor knows something about this?
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Schnauzer, are you really trying to say they got a good deal because it only cost 20,000 dollars for some 750 dollar Anti-Venom? ???
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Schnauzer, are you really trying to say they got a good deal because it only cost 20,000 dollars for some 750 dollar Anti-Venom? ???
Nope, just posting the outcome of the story. The guy had to pay $5,400 instead of $89,000.
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Nope, just posting the outcome of the story. The guy had to pay $5,400 instead of $89,000.
Wrong. That was just his co pay and his deductible. They are not covering the remaining 15,000. Just the rest to 80 grand. So 20 grand is what they will pay when its all said and done.
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Nope, Blue Cross and Blue Shield pays the rest. The man and his wife have to pay a total of $5,400.
http://news.yahoo.com/snake-bite-89000-162515519.html (http://news.yahoo.com/snake-bite-89000-162515519.html)
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Lake Norman Regional, a private for-profit hospital, is under scrutiny by others for questionable practices. In a 2010 lawsuit, recently unsealed in Mecklenburg County, two emergency room doctors alleged that Lake Norman and Davis Regional Medical Center in Statesville committed fraud by offering kickbacks to doctors who would order unnecessary tests and admit more patients to increase corporate revenues. The federal Department of Justice is also investigating
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/27/4643457/mooresville-patient-stunned-by.html#storylink=cpy
Quality care.
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Lake Norman Regional, a private for-profit hospital, is under scrutiny by others for questionable practices. In a 2010 lawsuit, recently unsealed in Mecklenburg County, two emergency room doctors alleged that Lake Norman and Davis Regional Medical Center in Statesville committed fraud by offering kickbacks to doctors who would order unnecessary tests and admit more patients to increase corporate revenues. The federal Department of Justice is also investigating
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/27/4643457/mooresville-patient-stunned-by.html#storylink=cpy
Quality care.
TA, do you have health insurance?
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TA, do you have health insurance?
YES
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YES
Are you his provider? 8)
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Are you his provider? 8)
I'm his friend .
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I'm his friend .
Now I know you're liar. :D
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Isn't this what America is all about though?
Freedom - as in the hospital being free to charge you $80k for $750 of meds?
Free Markets/Capitalism - the snake bitten guy could have shopped around, found the lowest cost hospital in his area and even the wholesale price of the meds before making an informed decision about where to take his snake bite.
With the great Gods of supply and demand driving prices, all prices of everything in America are fair.
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Isn't this what America is all about though?
Freedom - as in the hospital being free to charge you $80k for $750 of meds?
Free Markets/Capitalism - the snake bitten guy could have shopped around, found the lowest cost hospital in his area and even the wholesale price of the meds before making an informed decision about where to take his snake bite.
With the great Gods of supply and demand driving prices, all prices of everything in America are fair.
Good point. Furthermore, I think 5400 out of pocket is fair for saving his life.
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Eat a dick, you know how it can be justified? It gets paid.
This
The guy had insurance, bill was paid, everyone lives happily ever after.
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TA, do you have health insurance?
Yes. Shit Cross, Shit Shield. I have only gone to the eye doctor though. I only carry it in case of a catastrophe.
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get the fuck out of here with that shit
illegals cost billions a year
http://antonovich.com/children-of-illegal-aliens-in-los-angeles-county-cost-more-than-54-million-per-month/
maybe the LA county supervisor knows something about this?
They contribute billions a year as well, in the form of taxes and consumer spending. In 2006, illegal immigrants added over 18 billion to state revenues in Texas..... the money they contributed was about $500 million more than what they cost.
www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/undocumented.pdf
Maybe the Texas comptroller's office knows something about this?
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This
The guy had insurance, bill was paid, everyone lives happily ever after.
Wow, really? You see nothing wrong with this scenario?
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Wow, really? You see nothing wrong with this scenario?
Where did I say that?
I'm just agreeing with Irongrip. The price was justified when the insurance company paid it, that's why this will happen again and again.
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http://news.yahoo.com/snake-bite-89000-162515519.html
Snakebite victim charged $89,000 for 18-hour hospital stay
Dylan Stableford, Yahoo News
By Dylan Stableford, Yahoo News 6 hours ago Yahoo News
Laura and Eric Ferguson
.
View gallery
Laura and Eric Ferguson. (Courtesy Eric Ferguson)
A snakebite victim who was treated at a North Carolina hospital came away with more than just fang marks when he received an $89,227 bill for an 18-hour stay.
Eric Ferguson, 54, from Mooresville, N.C., was taking out the trash at his home last August when he was bitten on the foot by a snake. He drove himself to Lake Norman Regional Medical Center, where he was treated with anti-venom medicine.
According to his bill, the hospital charged $81,000 for a four-vial dose of the medication.
Shocked at the price tag, Ferguson told the Charlotte Observer he and his wife found the same vials online for retail prices as low as $750.
Ferguson, who is insured, said his care was "beyond phenomenal."
"It was just the sticker shock," he said.
View gallery
MD005166
A Southern Copperhead snake. (Photo by Joe McDonald/Corbis)
Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay.
The hospital defended its prices, saying it has to charge prices higher than retail because of the various discounts it is required to give insurers.
"We are required to give Medicare one level of discount from list price, Medicaid another, and private insurers negotiate for still others," officials told the newspaper. "If we did not start with the list prices we have, we would not end up with enough revenue to remain in operation."
The hospital added: "Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients."
The Fergusons' case is, of course, not unique. A 2013 cover story by Steven Brill in Time magazine ("Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us") detailed the "outrageous pricing and egregious profits" destroying the U.S. health care system, noting that Americans were expected to spend an estimated $2.8 trillion on health care last year.
He won't recover........he wished he was bitten by puff adder.....
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First off, Universal Healthcare/Single Payer does NOT work....if offered in the US, millions would abuse the system to the point where you would die before ever seeing a doctor. If directly compared to the UK, if such a policy were implemented right now in the US, you'd have a line of 7 MILLION ahead of you awaiting care. Can you imagine all the fat fucks and the tens of millions of depressed people signing up so they can get free drug prescriptions?
Funny how so many attempt to paint a rosy picture of the EU's and Canada's healthcare system. It is trash. If you disagree, you are misinformed, a liar, or have good financial means. Isn't it just grand that you can be taken to a bed where the guy next to you is coughing up chunks of his liver and dying?
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Where did I say that?
I'm just agreeing with Irongrip. The price was justified when the insurance company paid it, that's why this will happen again and again.
Well, perhaps I misunderstood you but it seemed like you were saying "all's well that ends well":
This
The guy had insurance, bill was paid, everyone lives happily ever after.
In other words, so long as the exorbitant bill gets paid, where's the problem?
Did I misinterpret your post?
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(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me2o2mjFNL1rb5rsao1_500.gif)
Cobras are legends.....lol......the y're the only snake people fuck with for entertaiment purposes......I dare them to kiss a bush master or a black mamba
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First off, Universal Healthcare/Single Payer does NOT work....if offered in the US, millions would abuse the system to the point where you would die before ever seeing a doctor. If directly compared to the UK, if such a policy were implemented right now in the US, you'd have a line of 7 MILLION ahead of you awaiting care. Can you imagine all the fat fucks and the tens of millions of depressed people signing up so they can get free drug prescriptions?
Funny how so many attempt to paint a rosy picture of the EU's and Canada's healthcare system. It is trash. If you disagree, you are misinformed, a liar, or have good financial means. Isn't it just grand that you can be taken to a bed where the guy next to you is coughing up chunks of his liver and dying?
haha lol at that "argumentation", im speechless.
theres so much dumb in there, i wont bother adressing it
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First off, Universal Healthcare/Single Payer does NOT work....if offered in the US, millions would abuse the system to the point where you would die before ever seeing a doctor. If directly compared to the UK, if such a policy were implemented right now in the US, you'd have a line of 7 MILLION ahead of you awaiting care. Can you imagine all the fat fucks and the tens of millions of depressed people signing up so they can get free drug prescriptions?
Funny how so many attempt to paint a rosy picture of the EU's and Canada's healthcare system. It is trash. If you disagree, you are misinformed, a liar, or have good financial means. Isn't it just grand that you can be taken to a bed where the guy next to you is coughing up chunks of his liver and dying?
You are misinformed.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq
Won’t this result in rationing like in Canada?
The U.S. already rations care. Rationing in U.S. health care is based on income: if you can afford care, you get it; if you can’t, you don’t. A recent study found that 45,000 Americans die every year because they don’t have health insurance. Many more skip treatments that their insurance company refuses to cover. That’s rationing. Other countries do not ration in this way.
If there is this much rationing, why don’t we hear about it? And if other countries ration less, why do we hear about them? The answer is that their systems are publicly accountable, and ours is not. Problems with their health care systems are aired in public; ours are not. For example, in Canada, when waits for care emerged in the 1990s, Parliament hotly debated the causes and solutions. Most provinces have also established formal reporting systems on waiting lists, with wait times for each hospital posted on the Internet. This public attention has led to recent falls in waits there.
In U.S. health care, no one is ultimately accountable for how the system works. No one takes full responsibility. Rationing in our system is carried out covertly through financial pressure, forcing millions of individuals to forgo care or to be shunted away by caregivers from services they can’t pay for. The rationing that takes place in U.S. health care is unnecessary. A number of studies (notably a General Accounting Office report in 1991 and a Congressional Budget Office report in 1993) show that there is more than enough money in our health care system to serve everyone if it were spent wisely. Administrative costs are at 31% of U.S. health spending, far higher than in other countries’ systems. These inflated costs are due to our failure to have a publicly financed, universal health care system. We spend about twice as much per person as Canada or most European nations, and still deny health care to many in need. A national health program could save enough on administration to assure access to care for all Americans, without rationing.
See also: http://www.pnhp.org/news/2012/july/single-payer-does-not-equal-increased-wait-times
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Well, perhaps I misunderstood you but it seemed like you were saying "all's well that ends well":
In other words, so long as the exorbitant bill gets paid, where's the problem?
Did I misinterpret your post?
No, I see what you're saying. I was just countering those alarmists whose only knowledge of our system is from the movie "Sicko", that believe there's some kind of incredible healthcare crisis in the United States.
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To bad he pays taxes or it would of been free
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No, I see what you're saying. I was just countering those alarmists whose only knowledge of our system is from the movie "Sicko", that believe there's some kind of incredible healthcare crisis in the United States.
Cool 8)
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No, I see what you're saying. I was just countering those alarmists whose only knowledge of our system is from the movie "Sicko", that believe there's some kind of incredible healthcare crisis in the United States.
???
Do you know what the leading cause of bankruptcy in America is from? Yeah no crisis here. ::) 80,000 dollars or even a 20,000 dollar or even a 5000 dollar bill for 750 dollars in antivenom and this is not even a bad incident or an isolated incident. No crisis, right? 47 million Americans with no Healthcare. Nope, no crisis there. Millions of Americans who can`t afford to pay monthly premiums. Nope, No crisis there. Iatrogenesis, which is physician error and misdiagnosis is the third leading cause of death (and in some studies THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH) in America. Nope. No crisis there.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148
Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
Published: Tuesday, 25 Jun 2013 | 2:29 PM ET
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they all are to blame, not just the insurance companies.
all are in on it.the govt, the pharma companies, the doctors,the insurances, the hospitals, everyone.
maybe the ones who deliver food to the hospitals arent, but yeah.
adam said it right, its an entire system, its no coincidence.
200usd monthly go, whether something happens or not, that fine by me,.if nothing happens, those 200 are used in afund and can help someone else i dont know i never met.who cares,the system as a whole im fine with.
the upcoming shoulder surgery will cost ,everything included, the hospital, anaestesist, the doc, the nurses, the rehab, itll be something close to 50-80k usd all things counted.
the gyno surgery was 15k usd+, not counting recovery meetings etc.
every day theres someone out there having heart surgery, cancer treatment etc, im happy to pay them my 200usd month.absolutely no problemo.
You would be a complete hypocrite though not to take the stance you do as an immigrant that's taken advantage of socialized medicine, so your point of view is understandable, but irrelevant IMO. Especially since you're going to have undergone like $90k in treatment (at the cost of dozens of tax payers who have paid and paid yet will take nothing).
I mean no disrespect Gal, but I don't think you can possibly be level headed on the matter.
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Isn't this what America is all about though?
Freedom - as in the hospital being free to charge you $80k for $750 of meds?
Free Markets/Capitalism - the snake bitten guy could have shopped around, found the lowest cost hospital in his area and even the wholesale price of the meds before making an informed decision about where to take his snake bite.
With the great Gods of supply and demand driving prices, all prices of everything in America are fair.
I really hope you're trolling.
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http://news.yahoo.com/snake-bite-89000-162515519.html
Snakebite victim charged $89,000 for 18-hour hospital stay
Dylan Stableford, Yahoo News
By Dylan Stableford, Yahoo News 6 hours ago Yahoo News
Laura and Eric Ferguson
.
View gallery
Laura and Eric Ferguson. (Courtesy Eric Ferguson)
A snakebite victim who was treated at a North Carolina hospital came away with more than just fang marks when he received an $89,227 bill for an 18-hour stay.
Eric Ferguson, 54, from Mooresville, N.C., was taking out the trash at his home last August when he was bitten on the foot by a snake. He drove himself to Lake Norman Regional Medical Center, where he was treated with anti-venom medicine.
According to his bill, the hospital charged $81,000 for a four-vial dose of the medication.
Shocked at the price tag, Ferguson told the Charlotte Observer he and his wife found the same vials online for retail prices as low as $750.
Ferguson, who is insured, said his care was "beyond phenomenal."
"It was just the sticker shock," he said.
View gallery
MD005166
A Southern Copperhead snake. (Photo by Joe McDonald/Corbis)
Because the hospital has a contract with Ferguson's insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield, it reduced the total bill to $20,227. According to the Observer, the couple paid $5,400 out of pocket to cover their deductible and co-pay.
The hospital defended its prices, saying it has to charge prices higher than retail because of the various discounts it is required to give insurers.
"We are required to give Medicare one level of discount from list price, Medicaid another, and private insurers negotiate for still others," officials told the newspaper. "If we did not start with the list prices we have, we would not end up with enough revenue to remain in operation."
The hospital added: "Our costs for providing uncompensated care are partially covered by higher bills for other patients."
The Fergusons' case is, of course, not unique. A 2013 cover story by Steven Brill in Time magazine ("Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us") detailed the "outrageous pricing and egregious profits" destroying the U.S. health care system, noting that Americans were expected to spend an estimated $2.8 trillion on health care last year.
As you know, any other way to provide medical care is communism, so shut the fuck up. That is your own system, your own fault, so you deserve it 100%. Just send some hate mail to the white house about the Obama care, and you will feel better ;D
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First off, Universal Healthcare/Single Payer does NOT work....if offered in the US, millions would abuse the system to the point where you would die before ever seeing a doctor. If directly compared to the UK, if such a policy were implemented right now in the US, you'd have a line of 7 MILLION ahead of you awaiting care. Can you imagine all the fat fucks and the tens of millions of depressed people signing up so they can get free drug prescriptions?
Our pointless empire seem to work just fine and that is a MUCH bigger task then common sense healthcare legislation.
Funny how so many attempt to paint a rosy picture of the EU's and Canada's healthcare system. It is trash. If you disagree, you are misinformed, a liar, or have good financial means. Isn't it just grand that you can be taken to a bed where the guy next to you is coughing up chunks of his liver and dying?
That is some made up horseshit. Proffessor Wiggums approves!
(http://s28.postimg.org/deff8te6h/index.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/deff8te6h/)
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I just want to know if the snake was OK
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First off, Universal Healthcare/Single Payer does NOT work....if offered in the US, millions would abuse the system to the point where you would die before ever seeing a doctor. If directly compared to the UK, if such a policy were implemented right now in the US, you'd have a line of 7 MILLION ahead of you awaiting care. Can you imagine all the fat fucks and the tens of millions of depressed people signing up so they can get free drug prescriptions?
Funny how so many attempt to paint a rosy picture of the EU's and Canada's healthcare system. It is trash. If you disagree, you are misinformed, a liar, or have good financial means. Isn't it just grand that you can be taken to a bed where the guy next to you is coughing up chunks of his liver and dying?
So you are ready to pay 89 000$ per night for single bed hospital room? Why, while real price is les than 1% of that..
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Its all managed differently. We're not Europe..I'm not paying for the somebody who can't produce. The tax rates in various European countries are different. Funding is different and it certainly isn't a massive block of 500 million all in the same system.
If america spent less money in wars around the oil world it would be enough money to healthcare.
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I am dumbfounded as to why people cannot see this for how ridiculous it is .. 89K for a 4 hour hospital stay. THIS is the reason this planet is going to shits. Everything is like this and the people still try to justify it based on the lies the gov serves them. They should march to the capitol, drag them out and lynch them.
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I really hope you're trolling.
Obviously - but the fact is the 'free market' isn't the panacea it's made out to be. This being a case in point.
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If america spent less money in wars around the oil world it would be enough money to healthcare.
The US govt already pays more per capita in the US on healthcare than almost all countries with fully socialized medicine.
It's OK, though - because if it changed in any way, everyone would be bowing down to Chairman Mao every morning.
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Obviously - but the fact is the 'free market' isn't the panacea it's made out to be. This being a case in point.
A true free market has never existed, anyone who's ever taken an economics class would know this. Yet people push and push for deregulation, thinking it will lead to better outcomes
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Obamacare doesn't prevent insurance companies from screwing over the public for profit.
Yes TA, the government does a fantastic job of taking care of its business ::) ::) ::). Trillions of dollars in debt. Social security, a system that will bankrupt itself within the next few decades. Medicare and medicaid, losing money everyday. So yes, put your pathetic health in the hands of bureaucrats with no medical training who will decide what type of healthcare you deserve and what you do not. ??? ??? ???. Meanwhile, one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive is that lawyers ... who vote overwhelmingly Democrat .... will sue at the sniff of blood. Obama has repeatedly railed against Tort reform. However, as a physician and I assume correctly that you are not, let me be frank that there is great waste in medicine ordering needless tests just to covery your ass. What is totally asinine is that I as a physician can be sued by a non-paying illegal immigrant for malpractice...WTF. Yeah TA, the dems got it right ::) ::) ::)
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That moron is your savior. LOL you are a bigger tool than you already appear.
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You are misinformed.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq
Won’t this result in rationing like in Canada?
The U.S. already rations care. Rationing in U.S. health care is based on income: if you can afford care, you get it; if you can’t, you don’t. A recent study found that 45,000 Americans die every year because they don’t have health insurance. Many more skip treatments that their insurance company refuses to cover. That’s rationing. Other countries do not ration in this way.
If there is this much rationing, why don’t we hear about it? And if other countries ration less, why do we hear about them? The answer is that their systems are publicly accountable, and ours is not. Problems with their health care systems are aired in public; ours are not. For example, in Canada, when waits for care emerged in the 1990s, Parliament hotly debated the causes and solutions. Most provinces have also established formal reporting systems on waiting lists, with wait times for each hospital posted on the Internet. This public attention has led to recent falls in waits there.
In U.S. health care, no one is ultimately accountable for how the system works. No one takes full responsibility. Rationing in our system is carried out covertly through financial pressure, forcing millions of individuals to forgo care or to be shunted away by caregivers from services they can’t pay for. The rationing that takes place in U.S. health care is unnecessary. A number of studies (notably a General Accounting Office report in 1991 and a Congressional Budget Office report in 1993) show that there is more than enough money in our health care system to serve everyone if it were spent wisely. Administrative costs are at 31% of U.S. health spending, far higher than in other countries’ systems. These inflated costs are due to our failure to have a publicly financed, universal health care system. We spend about twice as much per person as Canada or most European nations, and still deny health care to many in need. A national health program could save enough on administration to assure access to care for all Americans, without rationing.
See also: http://www.pnhp.org/news/2012/july/single-payer-does-not-equal-increased-wait-times
Quoting the pnhp.org to advocate for single payer healthcare reform is the same as utilizing MSNBC to advocate for the end of term of limits for Obamagod. Please T.A. you are stretching. Any group can skew the data to defend their stance. However, you are utilizing a website that actively pursues a single payer system. What difference if someone uses Breitbart.com or Rushlinbaugh.com...pleas e use CBO.gov or an independent website to justify your stance.
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Here is an article from Bloomberg; very interesting for the ACA advocated on this site:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-30/if-2013-was-hard-on-obamacare-just-wait-for-2014.html
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First off, Universal Healthcare/Single Payer does NOT work....if offered in the US, millions would abuse the system to the point where you would die before ever seeing a doctor. If directly compared to the UK, if such a policy were implemented right now in the US, you'd have a line of 7 MILLION ahead of you awaiting care. Can you imagine all the fat fucks and the tens of millions of depressed people signing up so they can get free drug prescriptions?
Funny how so many attempt to paint a rosy picture of the EU's and Canada's healthcare system. It is trash. If you disagree, you are misinformed, a liar, or have good financial means. Isn't it just grand that you can be taken to a bed where the guy next to you is coughing up chunks of his liver and dying?
Doesn't work how? It'd be nice if you could be specific and support your statements with links. Also, to read your post one would think that Canada and the EU (And the EU, really? The EU has some sort of unified system? And I thought each individual country had their own system...) are the only places where single payer is the norm. That is not true.
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I never understand these stories.
I got shoulder surgery from a MLB doctor in a great facility and my total cash outlay was about $600.
These stories boggle the mind.
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Yes TA, the government does a fantastic job of taking care of its business ::) ::) ::). Trillions of dollars in debt. Social security, a system that will bankrupt itself within the next few decades. Medicare and medicaid, losing money everyday. So yes, put your pathetic health in the hands of bureaucrats with no medical training who will decide what type of healthcare you deserve and what you do not. ??? ??? ???. Meanwhile, one of the reasons healthcare is so expensive is that lawyers ... who vote overwhelmingly Democrat .... will sue at the sniff of blood. Obama has repeatedly railed against Tort reform. However, as a physician and I assume correctly that you are not, let me be frank that there is great waste in medicine ordering needless tests just to covery your ass. What is totally asinine is that I as a physician can be sued by a non-paying illegal immigrant for malpractice...WTF. Yeah TA, the dems got it right ::) ::) ::)
Yeah, unnecessary testing as CYA because of the danger of malpractice suits IS a factor for why healthcare is so expensive in the USA relative to other industrialized countries...but it's a small factor. It's no mystery why this would be a big issue with doctors but it doesn't have a lot to do with how expensive healthcare is.
By far the biggest factor for why healthcare is so expensive in the USA relative to nearly all other industrialized countries is that we don't have single payer which would allow us to negotiate prices much more aggressively with healthcare providers, drug makers, and medical device manufacturers.
The goofy-looking non-GB'er in the video below explains this better than I can:
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Yeah, unnecessary testing as CYA because of the danger of malpractice suits IS a factor for why healthcare is so expensive in the USA relative to other industrialized countries...but it's a small factor. It's no mystery why this would be a big issue with doctors but it doesn't have a lot to do with how expensive healthcare is.
By far the biggest factor for why healthcare is so expensive in the USA relative to nearly all other industrialized countries is that we don't have single payer which would allow us to negotiate prices much more aggressively with healthcare providers, drug makers, and medical device manufacturers.
The goofy-looking non-GB'er in the video below explains this better than I can:
Ok I bite, who should the single payer be....BCBS, United Healthcare, Aetna, or aghast the government. Lets see, do away with private insurance companies and everything is run by the government. Brilliant, you immediately put millions of Americans out of work who work for the private insurance companies. Second, when has the US government ever run a business responsibly without going into debt. Who is going to pay for it. Fifty percent of Americans have no skin in the game; they do not pay taxes and in fact get refunds. Ok, tax the rich...great. What happens when they run out of money. Now who is going to pay for Universal Healthcare.
Universal healthcare will only work if every individual in this country has skin in the game. Moreover, self responsibility needs to come into play. How are we going to pay for ove 300 million Americans when the 24 milion working Americans don't have a job....don't believe the BS jobless reports given monthly as they do not count those who have quit looking for a job. The real unemployment number is 15%. Thus, how the hell do you propose you will pay for this. Medicaid, which is state and federally subsidized is barely accepted at many physicians offices as the reimbursement fee is too low; doctors lose money caring for Medicaid patients. There are more people joining Medicaid on the ACA than those signing up for private insurance; the plan as it is unsustainable.
If you are stuck with a single payer system, they can dictate therapy as they see fit. You could be a 65 yo male with no prior history and have an infection that leads to renal failure and because of your age you may not receive a kidney transplant. You may not receive that life saving chemotherapy because it is too expensive. If you have no recourse except one insurer you are the mercy of that plan and that plan alone. I and a lot of medical professionals see a trainwreck coming.
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no problemo, thats only 10 thousand hours of work at minimum wage, or uhm, 20 years trying to put away some spare money
so a snakebite treatment of 1 day costs more than a house in florida ;D
Or an entire city block in Detroit.
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I need to get the hell out of this country
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I need to get the hell out of this country
Until people start taking responsibility for themselves and lead better lives (no smoking, drug use, severe alcoholism, etc) the US healthcare system will remain a trainwreck. The actions of the few cannot take care of all. Knowing how corrupt and irresponsible our government is, I am amazed that people still want universal health care with the government being the provider.
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Until people start taking responsibility for themselves and lead better lives (no smoking, drug use, severe alcoholism, etc) the US healthcare system will remain a trainwreck. The actions of the few cannot take care of all. Knowing how corrupt and irresponsible our government is, I am amazed that people still want universal health care with the government being the provider.
My friend, I'm ALL for personal responsibility. You cannot find a person that despise the entitled generation more than I do, but 89k for a fucking hospital stay. That's just fucking ridiculous. You have hospitals and doctors charging whatever the fuck they want as they know they're needed. It makes me glad living in UK and going to NZ shortly where Healthcare costs are more sane.
You lot are getting fucked over in the US. And not in the fun way.
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My friend, I'm ALL for personal responsibility. You cannot find a person that despise the entitled generation more than I do, but 89k for a fucking hospital stay. That's just fucking ridiculous. You have hospitals and doctors charging whatever the fuck they want as they know they're needed. It makes me glad living in UK and going to NZ shortly where Healthcare costs are more sane.
You lot are getting fucked over in the US. And not in the fun way.
yeah, except your cost of living in the UK is twice our average and you pay way for gas and sales tax than we do to cover 'free' healthcare.
LOL free market ... if ER's could refuse to treat patients, if Kennedy (the man retards actually expected to fix the mess he helped create) hadn't tied health insurance to work, if we didn't have a tax code designed to push social agendas and supplement the income of the super wealthy, in other words if we actually HAD a free market your insurance company wouldn't be getting massive bills.
Which they don't pay
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My friend, I'm ALL for personal responsibility. You cannot find a person that despise the entitled generation more than I do, but 89k for a fucking hospital stay. That's just fucking ridiculous. You have hospitals and doctors charging whatever the fuck they want as they know they're needed. It makes me glad living in UK and going to NZ shortly where Healthcare costs are more sane.
You lot are getting fucked over in the US. And not in the fun way.
That's what you get with private health care. Privatized health care subsidized by the government is the problem.
When I had a heart attack my hospital bill was over $200k, was taken by ambulance to the ER and admitted into surgery immediately, had a second surgery 2 days later, stayed in ICU for 6 days, one day in a normal room and discharged after 7 days.
$89,000 for a snakebite and one day in the hospital seems like total bullshit.
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My friend, I'm ALL for personal responsibility. You cannot find a person that despise the entitled generation more than I do, but 89k for a fucking hospital stay. That's just fucking ridiculous. You have hospitals and doctors charging whatever the fuck they want as they know they're needed. It makes me glad living in UK and going to NZ shortly where Healthcare costs are more sane.
You lot are getting fucked over in the US. And not in the fun way.
BS you are wrong. The doctors get a set fee based on ICD guidelines. Trust me, the physician fee was at most 1-2 K. I agree that the hospitals rape people. However, it would not be that bad if there were so many useless individuals who abuse the system and don't pay a dime. As the hospital administrator said, they make up the profits on the backs of working stiffs. As for universal healthcare, it may seem like you are getting a bargain but how much do you pay in taxes. In the US, the highest tax bracket is 39.6; in the UK it is 50% (for those making over 150K....much lower than the 400K for a single filer in the US paying the 39.6%). Moreover, while our sales taxes go from 6-10 percent, UK has a 17% VAT tax. Trust me, you guys in Europe and New Zealand are paying for your healthcare...it is indirect but you are paying for it.
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BS you are wrong. The doctors get a set fee based on ICD guidelines. Trust me, the physician fee was at most 1-2 K. I agree that the hospitals rape people. However, it would not be that bad if there were so many useless individuals who abuse the system and don't pay a dime. As the hospital administrator said, they make up the profits on the backs of working stiffs. As for universal healthcare, it may seem like you are getting a bargain but how much do you pay in taxes. In the US, the highest tax bracket is 39.6; in the UK it is 50% (for those making over 150K....much lower than the 400K for a single filer in the US paying the 39.6%). Moreover, while our sales taxes go from 6-10 percent, UK has a 17% VAT tax. Trust me, you guys in Europe and New Zealand are paying for your healthcare...it is indirect but you are paying for it.
I pay 26% income tax on a salary of over 70k GBP a year (I'll pay less if I were married, had kids, etc). Work out yourself what that is in USD. Our VAT is now 20% unfortunately, the upper tax bracket is 45% of those earning 150k a year.
How does the amount of tax I pay compare to what someone in the US pay earning a similar wage?
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I think only 1 in 10 Americans don't have health insurance. Of those, some are paying their bills out of pocket and some just choose not to carry insurance, and others qualify for medicaid or medicare. The system needs reformed, but to 95% of people there's really no problem.
It's so funny to see the completely unrealistic picture that's been painted in the minds of some by the mainstream media.
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I pay 26% income tax on a salary of over 70k GBP a year (I'll pay less if I were married, had kids, etc). Work out yourself what that is in USD. Our VAT is now 20% unfortunately, the upper tax bracket is 45% of those earning 150k a year.
How does the amount of tax I pay compare to what someone in the US pay earning a similar wage?
James,
Here is the tax bracket for 2013 in the US. Realize that you can write off state income tax if applicable, mortgage interest, etc. You make around 110K US dollars give or take. Assuming no write offs and considering you are single with no kids, average by Taxcaster (which is a tax calculator that is pretty darn good) is around 21.2 thousand.
Nico
2013 Tax Brackets (for taxes due April 15, 2014)(United States)
Tax rate Single filers Married filing jointly or qualifying widow/widower Married filing separately Head of household
10% Up to $8,925 Up to $17,850 Up to $8,925 Up to $12,750
15% $8,926 to $36,250 $17,851 to $72,500 $8,926 to $36,250 $12,751 to $48,600
25% $36,251 to $87,850 $72,501 to $146,400 $36,251 to $73,200 $48,601 to $125,450
28% $87,851 to $183,250 $146,401 to $223,050 $73,201 to $111,525 $125,451 to $203,150
33% $183,251 to $398,350 $223,051 to $398,350 $111,526 to $199,175 $203,151 to $398,350
35% $398,351 to $400,000 $398,351 to $450,000 $199,176 to $225,000 $398,351 to $425,000
39.6% $400,001 or more $450,001 or more $225,001 or more $425,001 or more
Read more: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-brackets.aspx#ixzz2rpsPdUQX
Follow us: @Bankrate on Twitter | Bankrate on Facebook
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James,
By my calculation and considering the current exchange rate of 1.6 dollars to 1 pound, you pay around 8 thousand more dollars. However, I have a lot of friends who make a 100K and pay minimal taxes for write offs. Now, I don't know about Britain but we do pay 6.3% of the first 110 thousand or so earned toward social security and we continue to pay 1% or there abouts for medicare regardless of income. I think the high VAT tax is the real difference.
Nico
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I think only 1 in 10 Americans don't have health insurance. Of those, some are paying their bills out of pocket and some just choose not to carry insurance, and others qualify for medicaid or medicare. The system needs reformed, but to 95% of people there's really no problem.
It's so funny to see the completely unrealistic picture that's been painted in the minds of some by the mainstream media.
Do you know what the leading cause of bankruptcy in America is from? Yeah no crisis here. ::) 80,000 dollars or even a 20,000 dollar or even a 5000 dollar bill for 750 dollars in antivenom and this is not even a bad incident or an isolated incident. No crisis, right? 47 million Americans with no Healthcare. Nope, no crisis there. Millions of Americans who can`t afford to pay monthly premiums. Nope, No crisis there. Iatrogenesis, which is physician error and misdiagnosis is the third leading cause of death (and in some studies THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH) in America. Nope. No crisis there.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148
Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
Published: Tuesday, 25 Jun 2013 | 2:29 PM ET
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T.A., if you would research you would realize that hospitals cannot charge interest for their bills. Thus, as long as you get with them and make an effort to pay you will not be sent to collections. You can set up a payment plan and pay the bill off like a credit card. Second, I actually agree with you about pre-existing conditions. Patients who inadvertantly got cancer when they were twenty should not be punished. However, I am all for insurance companies docking you coverage or costing more if you smoke or are obese. Why not, you are obviously higher risk. I think the problem with hospitals and their bills is that there are so many uninsured who do not pay a dime...not a dime...that hospitals make up the difference with insured patients. You are wrong about the guy...his deductible was 5000 plus and that is all he pays. The insurance picks up the rest. However, I do agree that there needs to be some changes. I think people need to be held accountable for their poor lifestyles and have skin in the game. If you have a vested interest, you would not go to the E.R. for bullshit reasons. BTW, Obama's ACA is a complete failure as he is not enrolling enough young, healthy Americans to subsidize older sick patients. Facts are facts, the ACA or Obamacare sucks ass.
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Google Frank Luntz Language of Health Care 2009.
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Also try Wendell Potter.
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I love reading the European comments on here saying things like "I only pay $200 a month and have had 7 surgeries this year...our system's great!
Of course it is...for you...because the rest of the cost of your treatment was paid for by someone else. The fact that you're willing to use tens of thousands of dollars in services but only pay a small portion of it makes you a thief. You use the system to your advantage to get all you can while proclaiming a moral superiority over others who do the same.
Your drive to get as much as you can for as little capital as it costs you is the same ideology as the CEO of the fortune 500 companies you rail against. You're all fuckin hypocrites.
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Do you know what the leading cause of bankruptcy in America is from? Yeah no crisis here. ::) 80,000 dollars or even a 20,000 dollar or even a 5000 dollar bill for 750 dollars in antivenom and this is not even a bad incident or an isolated incident. No crisis, right? 47 million Americans with no Healthcare. Nope, no crisis there. Millions of Americans who can`t afford to pay monthly premiums. Nope, No crisis there. Iatrogenesis, which is physician error and misdiagnosis is the third leading cause of death (and in some studies THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH) in America. Nope. No crisis there.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148
Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study
Published: Tuesday, 25 Jun 2013 | 2:29 PM ET
In 2009, the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts determined that there were 1,412,838 non-business bankruptcy filings in this country in that year.
US Population: 313.9 million
That's less than half of one percent of Americans.
Not that I don't agree that it's a horrible thing to happen even once.
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I love reading the European comments on here saying things like "I only pay $200 a month and have had 7 surgeries this year...our system's great!
Of course it is...for you...because the rest of the cost of your treatment was paid for by someone else. The fact that you're willing to use tens of thousands of dollars in services but only pay a small portion of it makes you a thief. You use the system to your advantage to get all you can while proclaiming a moral superiority over others who do the same.
Your drive to get as much as you can for as little capital as it costs you is the same ideology as the CEO of the fortune 500 companies you rail against. You're all fuckin hypocrites.
It's hilarious, read galeniko's posts. He's racked up almost $100k in medical bills.
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James,
Here is the tax bracket for 2013 in the US. Realize that you can write off state income tax if applicable, mortgage interest, etc. You make around 110K US dollars give or take. Assuming no write offs and considering you are single with no kids, average by Taxcaster (which is a tax calculator that is pretty darn good) is around 21.2 thousand.
Nico
2013 Tax Brackets (for taxes due April 15, 2014)(United States)
Tax rate Single filers Married filing jointly or qualifying widow/widower Married filing separately Head of household
10% Up to $8,925 Up to $17,850 Up to $8,925 Up to $12,750
15% $8,926 to $36,250 $17,851 to $72,500 $8,926 to $36,250 $12,751 to $48,600
25% $36,251 to $87,850 $72,501 to $146,400 $36,251 to $73,200 $48,601 to $125,450
28% $87,851 to $183,250 $146,401 to $223,050 $73,201 to $111,525 $125,451 to $203,150
33% $183,251 to $398,350 $223,051 to $398,350 $111,526 to $199,175 $203,151 to $398,350
35% $398,351 to $400,000 $398,351 to $450,000 $199,176 to $225,000 $398,351 to $425,000
39.6% $400,001 or more $450,001 or more $225,001 or more $425,001 or more
Read more: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-brackets.aspx#ixzz2rpsPdUQX
Follow us: @Bankrate on Twitter | Bankrate on Facebook
Taxes are way to high, government is way to big. :-\
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James,
By my calculation and considering the current exchange rate of 1.6 dollars to 1 pound, you pay around 8 thousand more dollars. However, I have a lot of friends who make a 100K and pay minimal taxes for write offs. Now, I don't know about Britain but we do pay 6.3% of the first 110 thousand or so earned toward social security and we continue to pay 1% or there abouts for medicare regardless of income. I think the high VAT tax is the real difference.
Nico
According to my calculations if my salary were to be paid in USD I'll be on around 122k USD a year plus change. That puts me in the 28% tax bracket.
I pay 26% here.
So I'm actually paying less tax here than I would've in the US.
Oh, and just for the record.
I do pay into my own private medical healthcare since it could literally take months before you're offered vital life saving treatment on the NHS. However saying that, when I needed to be hospitalized right there and then I was offered superb services by the NHS. And I mean superb. As good as any hospital.
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I love reading the European comments on here saying things like "I only pay $200 a month and have had 7 surgeries this year...our system's great!
Of course it is...for you...because the rest of the cost of your treatment was paid for by someone else. The fact that you're willing to use tens of thousands of dollars in services but only pay a small portion of it makes you a thief. You use the system to your advantage to get all you can while proclaiming a moral superiority over others who do the same.
Your drive to get as much as you can for as little capital as it costs you is the same ideology as the CEO of the fortune 500 companies you rail against. You're all fuckin hypocrites.
The Europeans have been thieves, hypocrites, and delusional bastards for hundreds of years. The particular irony of it all is this new wave of moral superiority is on the heels of a giant financial clusterfuck in the EU. yeah, great system guys. US economy is shit now, but the EU is pathetic.
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The Europeans have been thieves, hypocrites, and delusional bastards for hundreds of years. The particular irony of it all is this new wave of moral superiority is on the heels of a giant financial clusterfuck in the EU. yeah, great system guys. US economy is shit now, but the EU is pathetic.
How is a hospital being allowed to charge 89k for a snake bite a 'great system'? ???
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How is a hospital being allowed to charge 89k for a snake bite a 'great system'? ???
It's not. The Euro system is not great either. And despite popular belief, the US does not have anything resembling a free market in healthcare.
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The Europeans have been thieves, hypocrites, and delusional bastards for hundreds of years. The particular irony of it all is this new wave of moral superiority is on the heels of a giant financial clusterfuck in the EU. yeah, great system guys. US economy is shit now, but the EU is pathetic.
Search "EU" on google news. People in glass houses... lol
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It's not. The Euro system is not great either.
thats right,its not great, its fantastic
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The Europeans have been thieves, hypocrites, and delusional bastards for hundreds of years. The particular irony of it all is this new wave of moral superiority is on the heels of a giant financial clusterfuck in the EU. yeah, great system guys. US economy is shit now, but the EU is pathetic.
Correct. The EU is now a battle of unelected banking/politico elites pushing fascist agendas against the dwindling middle class. They're using national debt, immigration and the rising poor jobless class to do it. The reaction its fueling is supra-nationalist political parties, disenfranchised youth and civil unrest. And we know well those conditions have worked out for Europe in the last century. ::)
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thats right,its not great, its fantastic
if you're poor and own no assets.
Otherwise you're a slave to the populists.
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the US does not have anything resembling a free market in healthcare.
Way back when we had free market healthcare, it was perfectly affordable.
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It's not. The Euro system is not great either. And despite popular belief, the US does not have anything resembling a free market in healthcare.
I can go to the hospital with a snake bite, get treatment and not have to take a mortgage on my house to pay for the injection and 3min with an 'expert' ???
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According to my calculations if my salary were to be paid in USD I'll be on around 122k USD a year plus change. That puts me in the 28% tax bracket.
I pay 26% here.
So I'm actually paying less tax here than I would've in the US.
Oh, and just for the record.
I do pay into my own private medical healthcare since it could literally take months before you're offered vital life saving treatment on the NHS. However saying that, when I needed to be hospitalized right there and then I was offered superb services by the NHS. And I mean superb. As good as any hospital.
We get back a lot come tax time, UK cost of living is still 30-50% higher, and your housing, utilities, cars, consumer electronics and most importantly gasoline are massively more than we pay.
Even living here in the Bay Area its way cheaper than even a small town in England.
I can think of nothing worse than losing my residence and having to move back to the UK
any job here paying 100k+ will almost certainly have great health insurance, old people and the disabled are covered by the government plans here. Not great but they pay.
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We get back a lot come tax time, UK cost of living is still 30-50% higher, and your housing, utilities, cars, consumer electronics and most importantly gasoline are massively more than we pay.
Even living here in the Bay Area its way cheaper than even a small town in England.
I can think of nothing worse than losing my residence and having to move back to the UK
any job here paying 100k+ will almost certainly have great health insurance, old people and the disabled are covered by the government plans here. Not great but they pay.
And people that harp on that it being perfectly fair with this doctors and hospital following some fucking dumbass 'guideline'. Oh brother, anything the government says goes for these ninnie heads ::)
Old people and the disabled are covered by the government here as well. Surely you know that being British?
Add to the fact that if I had to lose everything tomorrow, I can still be taken sick in hospital and NOT being charged my children's inheritance for a night in one of their beds.
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I can go to the hospital with a snake bite, get treatment and not have to take a mortgage on my house to pay for the injection and 3min with an 'expert' ???
Like nearly every American you would have health insurance through your employer, or you would purchase insurance for $150- $300 a month, so it wouldn't be a big deal either way.
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Obamacare is basically the same thing we have always had, insurance companies at the forefront with a few changes such as people cannot be denied insurance. A miniscule improvement and not really an improvement. Republicans, such as yourself, want to do NOTHING. So yes, you and the Republicans are WORSE when it comes to healthcare.
Oh and I do blame people like you for screaming at the top of your lungs how "bad" true Universal Healthcare is. This is stupidity at a whole new level and your ilk are front and center to blame.
Obama, ideally, always said he wanted true Single Payer Healthcare, like the rest of the Civilized world has, but with a nation of morons, its not going to happen. So yes, you are to blame.
No he does not want single payer, he is beholden to special interests that are the true enemies of single payer. Do you think joe sixpack knew what single payer was before the media mobilized in response to the possibility of it?
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No he does not want single payer, he is beholden to special interests that are the true enemies of single payer. Do you think joe sixpack knew what single payer was before the media mobilized in response to the possibility of it?
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The Europeans have been thieves, hypocrites, and delusional bastards for hundreds of years. The particular irony of it all is this new wave of moral superiority is on the heels of a giant financial clusterfuck in the EU. yeah, great system guys. US economy is shit now, but the EU is pathetic.
Dream on, stupid. Problems in the EU is coming from the same source than many other problems, because European countries has been giving loans to US banks, which can't pay back. That is the main reason of the economic depression in EU. Just pay back those hundreds of billions, and we can drop the taxes 10 -15% in every European country. Your state is in debt up to it's eyeballs, and where do you think all that wasted money has come? From of outer space? It is the money which other countries has lent to USA, and which they never get back, because 80% of those billions got stolen by your capitalist elite. In fact, if we wouldn't have lent those billions to USA, you poor bastards will be starving at the moment, so have some respect Grin
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very enlightening, thank you for sharing this
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Dream on, stupid. Problems in the EU is coming from the same source than many other problems, because European countries has been giving loans to US banks, which can't pay back. That is the main reason of the economic depression in EU. Just pay back those hundreds of billions, and we can drop the taxes 10 -15% in every European country. Your state is in debt up to it's eyeballs, and where do you think all that wasted money has come? From of outer space? It is the money which other countries has lent to USA, and which they never get back, because 80% of those billions got stolen by your capitalist elite. In fact, if we wouldn't have lent those billions to USA, you poor bastards will be starving at the moment, so have some respect Grin
Are you retarded? Your states run more debt than the US. Your monetary system is completely fucked. A central bank for the entire continent will never work. Thats the root of your problems. At least our slavemaster financial elite live in OUR country. Most Europeans are enslaved to a few bundesbank elite and EU technocrats from OTHER countries. lol! Fucking brilliant.
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Ok I bite, who should the single payer be....BCBS, United Healthcare, Aetna, or aghast the government. Lets see, do away with private insurance companies and everything is run by the government. Brilliant, you immediately put millions of Americans out of work who work for the private insurance companies. Second, when has the US government ever run a business responsibly without going into debt. Who is going to pay for it. Fifty percent of Americans have no skin in the game; they do not pay taxes and in fact get refunds. Ok, tax the rich...great. What happens when they run out of money. Now who is going to pay for Universal Healthcare.
Universal healthcare will only work if every individual in this country has skin in the game. Moreover, self responsibility needs to come into play. How are we going to pay for ove 300 million Americans when the 24 milion working Americans don't have a job....don't believe the BS jobless reports given monthly as they do not count those who have quit looking for a job. The real unemployment number is 15%. Thus, how the hell do you propose you will pay for this. Medicaid, which is state and federally subsidized is barely accepted at many physicians offices as the reimbursement fee is too low; doctors lose money caring for Medicaid patients. There are more people joining Medicaid on the ACA than those signing up for private insurance; the plan as it is unsustainable.
If you are stuck with a single payer system, they can dictate therapy as they see fit. You could be a 65 yo male with no prior history and have an infection that leads to renal failure and because of your age you may not receive a kidney transplant. You may not receive that life saving chemotherapy because it is too expensive. If you have no recourse except one insurer you are the mercy of that plan and that plan alone. I and a lot of medical professionals see a trainwreck coming.
The point of single payer is bring down the costs of medical services, drugs, and medical devices so that they're more inline with what other countries are paying. Are you of the opinion that prices don't need to be brought down? If not, let's hear your plan that would bring prices down close to the levels that single payer countries pay.
And, yes, it makes the most sense to have the government run it despite putting healthcare insurance folks out of work. (BTW, "millions" of healthcare insurance employees? Link to a source for this because I'm reading that it's well short of 1 million.) It should be mentioned, though, that were the gov't to take the role of the single payer, the administration of the program would necessitate the hiring of quite a few folks, too, don't you think?
Not sure why the 65-year old guy would get a kidney transplant when private insurance is running the show but not the gov't. And aren't a lot of 65-year olds covered by medicare anyway? How and why would a single payer by gov't system be different than medicare? This is an honest question because don't folks, in fact, call gov't-run single payer "medicare for all"?
In short, most other industrialized countries successfully have some kind of single payer system and they pay much less for everything than we do and have medical outcomes that are no worse. So if they can do it, why can't we?
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The ongoing point here is, had this man just been some illegal shlep or broke dick, we'd never heard of this story and he'd paid nothing, ever. What's your answer to that Adonis?
Btw, the exchange and all this is pure rubbish. The idea was to get "young people" involved to pay for all the older people not on Medicare yet. Thats not even close to coming to fruition. Again, Idealistic childish liberal thinking run-amok.
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Are you retarded? Your states run more debt than the US. Your monetary system is completely fucked. A central bank for the entire continent will never work. Thats the root of your problems. At least our slavemaster financial elite live in OUR country. Most Europeans are enslaved to a few bundesbank elite and EU technocrats from OTHER countries. lol! Fucking brilliant.
No, in fact you are. No one on this earth has mode depth's than USA have, so shut the fuck up. If our system is fucked, your system is ass fucked without any lubricants. The root of our problems is the fact, that we have some kind of trust to the American banks, which have no means what so ever to pay back the money they owns to the banks in EU. This is solid 100% fact, not any red neck bullshit. Just a fact, so read it and try to live with it. You poor bastards will never be able to pay what you own to EU countries, so fuck you. You are bunch of apes, living with the money which you have borrowed from EU, and which you never be able to pay back.
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No, in fact you are. No one on this earth has mode depth's than USA have, so shut the fuck up. If our system is fucked, your system is ass fucked without any lubricants. The root of our problems is the fact, that we have some kind of trust to the American banks, which have no means what so ever to pay back the money they owns to the banks in EU. This is solid 100% fact, not any red neck bullshit. Just a fact, so read it and try to live with it. You poor bastards will never be able to pay what you own to EU countries, so fuck you. You are bunch of apes, living with the money which you have borrowed from EU, and which you never be able to pay back.
Settle down dumb fuck... lol
(http://www.hispanicmpr.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/hmpr_debtchart-300x261.jpg)
The sooner you pussies are forcefully converted to Islam, the better.....
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The point of single payer is bring down the costs of medical services, drugs, and medical devices so that they're more inline with what other countries are paying. Are you of the opinion that prices don't need to be brought down? If not, let's hear your plan that would bring prices down close to the levels that single payer countries pay.
And, yes, it makes the most sense to have the government run it despite putting healthcare insurance folks out of work. (BTW, "millions" of healthcare insurance employees? Link to a source for this because I'm reading that it's well short of 1 million.) It should be mentioned, though, that were the gov't to take the role of the single payer, the administration of the program would necessitate the hiring of quite a few folks, too, don't you think?
Not sure why the 65-year old guy would get a kidney transplant when private insurance is running the show but not the gov't. And aren't a lot of 65-year olds covered by medicare anyway? How and why would a single payer by gov't system be different than medicare? This is an honest question because don't folks, in fact, call gov't-run single payer "medicare for all"?
In short, most other industrialized countries successfully have some kind of single payer system and they pay much less for everything than we do and have medical outcomes that are no worse. So if they can do it, why can't we?
Lol, really. We are talking the US government here. BTW, Europe where the policy is instituted is destitute financially. Only country that is not imminently in the crapper is Germany and even they are hurting. Medicare is subsidized by the working class. Think if the working class had to subsidize everyone in the United States, the taxes would be insurmountable. Moreover, considering the bureaucracy of our existing system, you would have doctors bogged down by unnecessary audits and oversight that would limit their ability to practice medicine. Why is it that people who have Federal BCBS keep their insurance and avoid Medicare. Congressman are now using the ACA exchanges for their healthcare but they get subsidized by the government; the common folk who make over a certain income do not get subsidized. Think about it, would Congressman even participate unless it gave them political clout.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/12/09/whats-congress-doing-about-its-own-health-care/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/07/15/labor-leaders-obamacare-will-shatter-their-health-benefits-cause-nightmare-scenarios/
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Lol, really. We are talking the US government here. BTW, Europe where the policy is instituted is destitute financially. Only country that is not imminently in the crapper is Germany and even they are hurting. Medicare is subsidized by the working class. Think if the working class had to subsidize everyone in the United States, the taxes would be insurmountable. Moreover, considering the bureaucracy of our existing system, you would have doctors bogged down by unnecessary audits and oversight that would limit their ability to practice medicine. Why is it that people who have Federal BCBS keep their insurance and avoid Medicare. Congressman are now using the ACA exchanges for their healthcare but they get subsidized by the government; the common folk who make over a certain income do not get subsidized. Think about it, would Congressman even participate unless it gave them political clout.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/12/09/whats-congress-doing-about-its-own-health-care/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/07/15/labor-leaders-obamacare-will-shatter-their-health-benefits-cause-nightmare-scenarios/
Not sure why I'm taking you seriously now. To read your post, you'd think Germany uses single payer but that is false. Germany uses a multi-payer system and an insurance mandate, actually. (Sound familiar?)
So "...Europe where the policy is instituted is destitute financially."?
Are you implying that Europe is the only place where single payer is used? (As Dwight Schrute says, "FALSE!") Or are you just implying that the single payer is responsible for the alleged "destitute" status of Europe? Funny, you don't say one word about why the single payer countries pay so much less for healthcare services than we do, though.
Here's a partial list of countries that either use single payer or "two tier" where the gov't provides a minimum level of coverage while offering additional coverage that can be purchased if desired:
Norway.............Singl e Payer
New Zealand.....Two Tier
Japan...............Sing le Payer
United Kingdom.Single Payer
Kuwait..............Sing le Payer
Sweden............Single Payer
Bahrain............Singl e Payer
Brunei..............Sing le Payer
Canada............Single Payer
Netherlands......Two-Tier
UAE.................Sing le Payer
Finland.............Sing le Payer
Slovenia...........Singl e Payer
Denmark..........Two-Tier
France.............Two-Tier
Australia..........Two Tier
Ireland............Two-Tier
Italy................Sin gle Payer
Portugal...........Singl e Payer
Cyprus............Single Payer
Spain..............Singl e Payer
Iceland............Singl e Payer
Hong Kong.......Two-Tier
Singapore........Two-Tier
Israel..............Two-Tier
Like Colin Powell said:
“And I don’t see why we can’t do what Europe is doing, what Canada is doing, what Korea is doing, what all these other places are doing.”… “We are a wealthy enough country with the capacity to make sure that every one of our fellow citizens has access to quality health care,” Powell. “(Let’s show) the rest of the world what our democratic system is all about and how we take care of all of our citizens.”