Why the WWE current product stinks....

[Playboy]

Agreed, he has his value but also look how shitty WCW final days were when Russo was in charge.

Guy is talented but not God of wrestling.

Russo had his moment in the sun for 3 years in WWE during the attitude era and because of that he thought he should be on Mount Rushmore. He made some ridiculous calls in WCW at the tale end and did the same thing in TNA.

[TuHolmes]

Exactly... Russo isn't some amazing wrestling genius.

Some of it was just luck too. The Rock and Austin coming along when they did and being able to kind of write their own stuff.

[Montague]

Russo had his moment in the sun for 3 years in WWE during the attitude era and because of that he thought he should be on Mount Rushmore. He made some ridiculous calls in WCW at the tale end and did the same thing in TNA.

Russo & Ferrara pitched maybe 50 ideas. The old man took the best five & modified them beyond that.

Russo is HIGHLY OVERRATED.

[Playboy]

Exactly... Russo isn't some amazing wrestling genius.

Some of it was just luck too. The Rock and Austin coming along when they did and being able to kind of write their own stuff.

You said it right there. Luck has ALL kinds to do with it. They had Rock and Austin...two of the biggest stars right there to work with. Plus HHH who was a rising star in 1999 when he came back amplified. I honestly think HHH is grossly under-rated as a performer. Check out his HITC match with Cactus Jack and his matches with Austin and Rock were legendary.

[littleguns]

Makes you wonder if Bischoff never released Austin, what the WWF would have been like

[TuHolmes]

Makes you wonder if Bischoff never released Austin, what the WWF would have been like

True. Also, what could WCW have returned to if they had not been sold off by Time Warner.

The ratings at the time were better than what the WWE product has going on right now.

[Montague]

Makes you wonder if Bischoff never released Austin, what the WWF would have been like

 I believe Austin served as a catalyst. Stone Cold was an "accident."
When the old man saw his reactions, he decided to pursue that direction.

If Austin hadn't have started it, we may still have Duke "The Dumpster" and Adam Bomb on the marquee.

[Dave D]

 I believe Austin served as a catalyst. Stone Cold was an "accident."
When the old man saw his reactions, he decided to pursue that direction.

If Austin hadn't have started it, we may still have Duke "The Dumpster" and Adam Bomb on the marquee.

Obviously no one saw what Austin was going to become, but looking back it seemed like Vince was opposed to him being the next guy (or maybe he wasn't 100% behind it). Austin was a SLOW build up, literally a whole year from 13 to 14, and that might have been the plan all along but he was a secondary player as far as storyline went while they went from Taker to Hitman to HBK and Sid was in there somewhere.

If Austin didn't happen WCW probably wins....

[Montague]

Obviously no one saw what Austin was going to become, but looking back it seemed like Vince was opposed to him being the next guy (or maybe he wasn't 100% behind it). Austin was a SLOW build up, literally a whole year from 13 to 14, and that might have been the plan all along but he was a secondary player as far as storyline went while they went from Taker to Hitman to HBK and Sid was in there somewhere.

If Austin didn't happen WCW probably wins....

I think it was a slow buildup because the drastic transition required for that character and it's environment took time.

It was almost like Vince began transforming his product to meet the Austin persona, as other guys began ditching their character gimmicks and moved more towards just being personalities.
Plumbers, garbage men, and clowns were ushered out; jeans, black t-shirts, and leather jackets were ushered in along with the attitudes that came with them.

Also, the old man had to answer to sponsors and networks who carried his shows.

But, Austin seemed to be at the helm of that movement, which seemed tailored specifically TO him.
Must be a nice feeling.

[Thin Lizzy]

You could make the case that if ECW didn't happen WCW would've won. ECW was where Austin was encouraged to speak his mind and develop the character which later became Stone Cold.

[Playboy]

Obviously no one saw what Austin was going to become, but looking back it seemed like Vince was opposed to him being the next guy (or maybe he wasn't 100% behind it). Austin was a SLOW build up, literally a whole year from 13 to 14, and that might have been the plan all along but he was a secondary player as far as storyline went while they went from Taker to Hitman to HBK and Sid was in there somewhere.

If Austin didn't happen WCW probably wins....

Actually, there was one person who saw...the one person who can spot talent a mile away....the one person who saw the skill stars and helped mould them into the stars they are today....

PAUL HEYMAN ... the most under-rated promoter/writer/coach.

[Skeeter]

Obviously no one saw what Austin was going to become, but looking back it seemed like Vince was opposed to him being the next guy (or maybe he wasn't 100% behind it). Austin was a SLOW build up, literally a whole year from 13 to 14, and that might have been the plan all along but he was a secondary player as far as storyline went while they went from Taker to Hitman to HBK and Sid was in there somewhere.

If Austin didn't happen WCW probably wins....

I believe at that time Vince wanted HHH to be the next top guy. That was squashed because of the MSG curtain call.

[Montague]

I believe at that time Vince wanted HHH to be the next top guy. That was squashed because of the MSG curtain call.

I don't know how close Hunter was at that point in time, but he himself has admitted that he was to receive a nice push that was put on hold because of MSG.

Even the D-X angle was a bit of a setback because, although insanely over, it kept him out of the main event spotlight.

[littleguns]

I believe at that time Vince wanted HHH to be the next top guy. That was squashed because of the MSG curtain call.

Great point. In hindsight, would Austin have gotten over eventually if Vince went with the original plan of HHH winning the King of the Ring. Austin was a great mechanic prior to his neck injuries and my understanding was everyone wanted to work with him, Brett, Shawn etc.....

[Skeeter]

Great point. In hindsight, would Austin have gotten over eventually if Vince went with the original plan of HHH winning the King of the Ring. Austin was a great mechanic prior to his neck injuries and my understanding was everyone wanted to work with him, Brett, Shawn etc.....

Bret has spoken very highly of Steve Austin but Shawn was always difficult when he had to job for someone that wasn't a cliq member. Did Shawn really want to work with Austin?

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2014/1025/583325/steve-austin-talks-drama-with-shawn-michaels-before-wrestlemania/

[Grape Ape]

I'm considering grabbing tix to TLC as a birthday present for my son.

Is it going to be awful?

[Playboy]

I'm considering grabbing tix to TLC as a birthday present for my son.

Is it going to be awful?

Save your money and watch it on the network. A lot of talent is injured thus I cannot see it as a stellar ppv worth attending. Just my two pennies.

[Grape Ape]

Save your money and watch it on the network. A lot of talent is injured thus I cannot see it as a stellar ppv worth attending. Just my two pennies.

I agree with all those points......

I'm also stuck for a gift.......

[Thin Lizzy]

I agree with all those points......

I'm also stuck for a gift.......

I'm going to a Christmas toy drive on Friday and picked this up. The cars are so cool, I've been tempted to open the box and play with them myself.

[Playboy]

Booze...the gift that keeps on giving 

[Grape Ape]

Booze...the gift that keeps on giving 

Wife might get pissed if I gave a 12 year old that though.

I think I'll end up going - just have to decide on seats.....loge seats look like they have the best viewing.  Since wrestling knuckleheads stand the whole show, we'll need a bit of elevation.

[Playboy]

Wife might get pissed if I gave a 12 year old that though.

I think I'll end up going - just have to decide on seats.....loge seats look like they have the best viewing.  Since wrestling knuckleheads stand the whole show, we'll need a bit of elevation.

Good point and a word of advice to all of you. If you go to any show, never get ground floor seats. You will she nothing and be forced to stand for 3 hours.

[Grape Ape]

Good point and a word of advice to all of you. If you go to any show, never get ground floor seats. You will she nothing and be forced to stand for 3 hours.

Appreciate that - head the exact same advice from a buddy of mine who's a huge fan.

[Thin Lizzy]

Appreciate that - head the exact same advice from a buddy of mine who's a huge fan.

Funny, I always give this advice to people who want to go to Madison Square Garden. You don't want floor level, Orchestra seating, for the reasons Playboy mentioned. Loge is the way to go.

[Grape Ape]

Funny, I always give this advice to people who want to go to Madison Square Garden. You don't want floor level, Orchestra seating, for the reasons Playboy mentioned. Loge is the way to go.

Thanks - I'm looking at loge....there is a loge directly even with the stage....but that will run me $460.....but the loge next to that one, slightly off the corner is 350........might go that route.  Plus that loge is entrance side..