Dick Cheney is an idiot.

[a_joker10]

Seriously, can anyone here with military or police expereince weigh in here?

240
Beach Bum and Head Hunter Six are military.

From the tapes of that day the president didn't leave Florida until the act of terrorism were finished. He then went on Air Force 1 and was not seen for the rest of the day.

After the first Trade Tower was hit they knew how many planes were in the sky and I am sure the secret srevice thought it would best to keep him there.

The president isn't responsible for his own safety, if the secret service wanted him moved he would be moved weither he wanted to be or not.

That is a fact.

Also, I am sure that the President and the Secret Service didn't want to panic the children and America on National Television.

I always thought he was rather brave that day.

[Dos Equis]

Yeah sure..look we practice and train to do all kinds of stuff...alot of the tactics i was trained on as a marine grunt have been shit canned due to how people really react in combat. As a tanker in the Army we did all kinds of stuff..drilles etc that have been proved to be impractical or don't work once they are conducted during a real situation.

The situation that day was something that we have never faced in our history. We were attacked on our own soil...almost on live TV..we watched our countrymen die on Fox and CNN. Pearl harbor has is no comparison because this happened during the information age. I remember all the crazy stuff that happened where i was. We moved armor to the main gates of the base. They wanted to start handing out weapons..this was all on American soil. I can just imagine what the situation was with the President and his team.

All we have to go on is what we have seen in the movies. Secret service agents hustling the president into a Limo. I think GB wanted to figure out what was going on and with camera's rolling...having his detail push him into car and speed off would look like panic...he did the right thing as it turns out. They got him into the air and he eventually got back to DC. There was a ton of confusion and they didn't follow the playbook...ok well shit happens. It does not point to a fore knowledge of the attack. It points to the agenst and the president being stunned and human.

Sounds reasonable to me. 

[Dos Equis]

240
Beach Bum and Head Hunter Six are military.

From the tapes of that day the president didn't leave Florida until the act of terrorism were finished. He then went on Air Force 1 and was not seen for the rest of the day.

After the first Trade Tower was hit they knew how many planes were in the sky and I am sure the secret srevice thought it would best to keep him there.

The president isn't responsible for his own safety, if the secret service wanted him moved he would be moved weither he wanted to be or not.

That is a fact.

Also, I am sure that the President and the Secret Service didn't want to panic the children and America on National Television.

I always thought he was rather brave that day.

I agree.

[24KT]

I am sure that the President and the Secret Service didn't want to panic the children and America on National Television.

{ROTFLOL} Ya, why should he when he had FOX, CNN, and every other broadcaster panicking the nation for him?

I don't buy it. He could have slipped away or gotten out of reading without panicking those kiddies very easily.

[OzmO]

{ROTFLOL} Ya, why should he when he had FOX, CNN, and every other broadcaster panicking the nation for him?

I don't buy it. He could have slipped away or gotten out of reading without panicking those kiddies very easily.

yep.

[240 is Back]

{ROTFLOL} Ya, why should he when he had FOX, CNN, and every other broadcaster panicking the nation for him?
I don't buy it. He could have slipped away or gotten out of reading without panicking those kiddies very easily.

Correct.  The media, the kids, the teachers were all targets at that point.  If the president just found out that the second plane had hit, then there were still two more missing in the air, and many many more *wargame hijacked*.  Monster confusion, sure.  But when someone posted "He knew the other planes were in DC, not FL" that is pure bunk.  The other planes would be in the air for another hour.  He had no knowledge of them not heading for FL, or other planes in the FL area heading his way, that hadn't been deteceted yet. 

I am a simple web designer, and off the top of my head I can think of a dozen ways he was vulnerable.  To think that the top security detail in the world would just say "well, those hijacked planes are all up north.  let's read about goats- we're safe" is absurd.  their job is to carry him out the door if he won't go- and everyone else in washington was picked up and rushed out that AM.

Absurd.

[Dos Equis]

I guess that settles it.  The president and secret service had no intelligence at all about the president's safety, so the fact that he finished reading a story to little kids proves he was involved in a sinister conspiracy to murder innocent people.  I'm convinced.

Comical. 

[OzmO]

I guess that settles it.  The president and secret service had no intelligence at all about the president's safety, so the fact that he finished reading a story to little kids proves he was involved in a sinister conspiracy to murder innocent people.  I'm convinced.

Comical. 

i could be completely wrong about this but I would think "protocol" would dictate they do something immediatly to protect him with this happens.

But it wasn't so much that....  It was the look on his face that suggested a great many things.

[240 is Back]

I guess that settles it.  The president and secret service had no intelligence at all about the president's safety, so the fact that he finished reading a story to little kids proves he was involved in a sinister conspiracy to murder innocent people.  I'm convinced.

Comical. 

No, he started a book reading session after hearing "A second plane has hit the towers- American is under attack".  Then he did some Q & A about whether the kids like to read more, or watch TV more.

If they didn't know that 2 planes were going to hit the towers, then they certainly didn't know that the president and those kids were 1000% safe on the ground in a public school.  If they had no knowledge, then were suddenly given the info that terrorists are attacking, and bush is so hated worldwide, it would be reasonable to assume that he could be a target.

Funny that you assume the intelligence they had was good enough to guarantee his safety, but at the same time bad enough that they had no advance knowledge of the 4 planes taking nosedives that day.

Either he knew the score, or he didn't.  If he knew, he was criminally treasonous for letting it happen.  If he didn't he was criminally negligent by reading about goats while the US was under attack and he is by far the most valuable target to a terrorist.

Which is it?

[240 is Back]

i could be completely wrong about this but I would think "protocol" would dictate they do something immediatly to protect him with this happens.

Right.  Perhaps there would have been a 30-second delay while his men talked and worked out their plan.  But 12 or 13 minutes of standing around quietly while he read- that is absurd.  in any other scenario where there is a slight danger, he is surrounded, politely says his goodbyes, and is taken to a secure location fast.  And that is for little things.  Bigger things, like hijacked jets crashing national landmarks, well... they followed protocol with everyone else.  Dick Cheney tried to waive off his security detail and was literally carried to an underground bunker, as were others.  The second the news of the second hit went down, they were all grabbed and they ran for a bunker.

Except the biggest target of them all.  You add that to the hundreds of other things that don't make sense that day, and what does your gut tell you? 

[24KT]

i could be completely wrong about this but I would think "protocol" would dictate they do something immediatly to protect him with this happens.

But it wasn't so much that....  It was the look on his face that suggested a great many things.

Ya, that his brain is adled.

[240 is Back]

They lied about the Bin Laden tape.

They lied about why WTC7 fell, to anyone with a pair of eyes.

They sold the crime scene to china for scrap metal instead of testing it.

They fought ever starting an investigation until people sued for it.

They won't show any of the confiscated security tapes from hotels and gas stations near the Pentagon.

They are guilty as shit.  At the very least, of fore-knowledge and a coverup.  At the worst, complicity in the attacks.

[Dos Equis]

i could be completely wrong about this but I would think "protocol" would dictate they do something immediatly to protect him with this happens.

But it wasn't so much that....  It was the look on his face that suggested a great many things.

I don't know secret service protocol, but I would imagine it requires them to ensure the president's safety with broad discretion to determine how that is done.  I doubt they have to do anything immediately if the don't think the president is in imminent danger. 

The look on his face?  Are you saying the look on his face suggests or confirms a criminal conspiracy?  Where is the blueprint for a facial expression when the most powerful man in the world is just told about an act, not yet confirmed as terrorism, has just taken place, and he's reading to a bunch of school kids?  It should have been shock, surprise, anger, poker face?  I say poker face, particularly when there is a camera in your face in front of a bunch of kids.     

[Dos Equis]

No, he started a book reading session after hearing "A second plane has hit the towers- American is under attack".  Then he did some Q & A about whether the kids like to read more, or watch TV more.

If they didn't know that 2 planes were going to hit the towers, then they certainly didn't know that the president and those kids were 1000% safe on the ground in a public school.  If they had no knowledge, then were suddenly given the info that terrorists are attacking, and bush is so hated worldwide, it would be reasonable to assume that he could be a target.

Funny that you assume the intelligence they had was good enough to guarantee his safety, but at the same time bad enough that they had no advance knowledge of the 4 planes taking nosedives that day.

Either he knew the score, or he didn't.  If he knew, he was criminally treasonous for letting it happen.  If he didn't he was criminally negligent by reading about goats while the US was under attack and he is by far the most valuable target to a terrorist.

Which is it?

240 I have to think you don't believe all this stuff.  You're just trying to play devil's advocate, no?  What law did he break and who was harmed by this "criminal negligence"? 

[240 is Back]

I don't know secret service protocol, but I would imagine it requires them to ensure the president's safety with broad discretion to determine how that is done.  I doubt they have to do anything immediately if the don't think the president is in imminent danger. 

The President is in a school, a very unsecure place.  There are a million points of entry in a FL public elementary school.  They use the 'campus' layout, in which you can walk onto campus from any direction.  

It doesn't take 30 minutes to ascertain that "if this terror group can fly 2 planes into two towers, they just might have plans for ruining the day of the most valuable terror target in the world.  

Yet, the pres was told at 9:02 and he still spoke to reporters at 9:30, as planned.  No deviation from plan that day.  He only spent 15 min with the kids and 10 on phone with cheney, instead of 20 with the kids and 10 prep time for media.  

Dude, if you were in charge of the life of the President, and you saw that some terror group had managed to jack two planes that you knew of (they may have know about 2+ more), and you had a small security detail at a school, wouldn't a little light go off that said "maybe he might be in a LITTLE danger"?  Then, maybe you'd realize that maybe, just maybe, he might be a little safer somewhere that isn't an open campus school in a publicized media stop?  I mean, this guy has one job.  Keep the prez from danger.  And with as many variables that were happening that day, as many reed flags for danger, why didn't he just do his damn job?

[240 is Back]

240 I have to think you don't believe all this stuff.  You're just trying to play devil's advocate, no?  What law did he break and who was harmed by this "criminal negligence"? 

I know that if the head of the secret service was put on the stand and forced to answer just why he broke protocol that day, the American people might get some insight as to what they knew, and when.

I just ask questions because it doesn't make sense.  A new investigation is owed to the family's victims, if nothing else.  If anyone knew ahead of time, and let 3000 people die, don't you think they should be brought to justice?

[a_joker10]

State figures are often emotionless when very bad things happen.
It's called being stoic. Some people think it is a good. Obviously some of you guys don't.

President Bush was safe he was in Florida and in no immediate danger. If the secret service was indeed worried at all about his safety he would have been removed from the situation.
Obviously the secret service was right because the President is still alive.

You are putting supposition before the facts.

The fact is the president was safe. If the secret service feared for his safety he would have been moved.
The president doesn't discuss his security with them. The secret service dictates the security plan to the president.
If the secret service needed time to come up with an appropriate safety exit. They would decide it amongst themselves and then tell the president. With this fact in mind they would also tell the President to carry on with his business until after he was well informed of the facts.
His reaction was not out of the ordinary. Most world leaders during times of strife try to look as calm and cool as they can. Looking stoic is much better than looking panicked.

[240 is Back]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2005/090405gotwarning.htm

"We were told that the World Trade Center was going to collapse in 10 or 15 minutes"

- Rudy Guillani to Peter Jennings on the South tower, the first one to fall.

[OzmO]

I don't know secret service protocol, but I would imagine it requires them to ensure the president's safety with broad discretion to determine how that is done.  I doubt they have to do anything immediately if the don't think the president is in imminent danger. 

The look on his face?  Are you saying the look on his face suggests or confirms a criminal conspiracy?  Where is the blueprint for a facial expression when the most powerful man in the world is just told about an act, not yet confirmed as terrorism, has just taken place, and he's reading to a bunch of school kids?  It should have been shock, surprise, anger, poker face?  I say poker face, particularly when there is a camera in your face in front of a bunch of kids.     

What it suggests is fore hand knowledge.

He was told a jet crashed into the WTC.  He didn't even flinch.  He's not a poker player and he wasn't playing poker at that moment.  He was reading to kids on camera and was informed of an outragous tragedy by people he knew would tell him nothing but the truth.  and he didn't even flinch.

It in no way confirms anything but it does certainly suggest.

[240 is Back]

I could care less about what his face read.  

I find it weird that anyone could assume "President Bush was safe he was in Florida and in no immediate danger."

If a group had the incredible skill to take planes into skyscrapers, there is no assuming they couldn't have some other operation planned in FL or anywhere else in the nation.  It is the job of the Secret Service to error on the side of caution - they didn't need an "escape plan".  They get the fuck to the cars and get out of there.  Period. They don't sit in the crosshairs and say "well, until we get word that we're a target, let's just chill here".  No. They make the Presiden't location unknown when attacks are underway.

[a_joker10]

Presidents and Heads of States in general won't react to good or bad news. It isn't a flaw.
It is better that they don't react quickly to the news becuase if he was as emotional as say a Bill Cower then there would have been more panic.

[OzmO]

I could care less about what his face read. 

I find it weird that anyone could assume "President Bush was safe he was in Florida and in no immediate danger."

If a group had the incredible skill to take planes into skyscrapers, there is no assuming they couldn't have some other operation planned in FL or anywhere else in the nation.  It is the job of the Secret Service to error on the side of caution - they didn't need an "escape plan".  They get the f**k to the cars and get out of there.  Period. They don't sit in the crosshairs and say "well, until we get word that we're a target, let's just chill here".  No. They make the Presiden't location unknown when attacks are underway.

Well for what it is worth if i was in charge of the SS detail that day i wouldn't assume he was safe. 

Tyrhonny might assume it bacuase he feels it would further his Evolution debate. 

[OzmO]

Presidents and Heads of States in general won't react to good or bad news. It isn't a flaw.
It is better that they don't react quickly to the news becuase if he was as emotional as say a Bill Cower then there would have been more panic.

there wasn't even a questioning "frown"  I'm not suggesting he should have yellED OMFG!  WHAT DID YOU SAY HAPPENED!

[a_joker10]

I could care less about what his face read. 

I find it weird that anyone could assume "President Bush was safe he was in Florida and in no immediate danger."

If a group had the incredible skill to take planes into skyscrapers, there is no assuming they couldn't have some other operation planned in FL or anywhere else in the nation.  It is the job of the Secret Service to error on the side of caution - they didn't need an "escape plan".  They get the f**k to the cars and get out of there.  Period. They don't sit in the crosshairs and say "well, until we get word that we're a target, let's just chill here".  No. They make the Presiden't location unknown when attacks are underway.

No, that is what you would do.

I am sure that the secret service new very well that he was safe. You have to rember ever since JFK the secret service doesn't mess around with president. I am sure that the Sarasota air space was already locked down. Also the secret service woldn't have allowed cars any where near the school. Also everyone in the school would have had a background check done.

They new what they had in Sarasota. They were very unsure of what was going to happen in Washington DC.

[240 is Back]

No, that is what you would do.

I am sure that the secret service new very well that he was safe. You have to rember ever since JFK the secret service doesn't mess around with president. I am sure that the Sarasota air space was already locked down. Also the secret service woldn't have allowed cars any where near the school. Also everyone in the school would have had a background check done.

They new what they had in Sarasota. They were very unsure of what was going to happen in Washington

I used to live in Sarasota and I am a former teacher.  I saw the video clip of the pres's motorcade arriving, there were something like 5 cars visible.

HOW would they knew he was safe?  There is an airport 3 miles away from that elem school.  Unless they had a blackhawk floating over that school, or a missile battery in the lawn, they were not safe from aerial attack.  And for god's sake, man.  With as many ppl were involved in 911, what would have stopped 50 men with rifles from pulling up and starting something?  Or a truck bomb? Or anything?

If a group can take out two skyscrapers and 4 planes, they can get to one man in a public place. period.  There are homes right across the street from that school, and the terrorist pilots trained right up the interstate 20 minutes away.  Any prick or group of pricks could have sat a block away and fired RPGs into the school campus at the same time the planes hit, if they had chosen to. 

Dude, if they knew he was safe, it is because they knew the targets that day ahead of time.  the ONLY other way to ensure his safety was to get him out of there, onto a plane, and get fighter jet escorts.  Or, whatever hidden bunker.

Come on man, something stinks about that morning.  They all just sat there.  They should have been scrambling for a safe place.